LG Hybrid Disc Player Not Licensed for HD DVD Logo

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

January 22, 2007, 4:13 PM

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UPDATE January 22, 2007 4:00 pm ET: A spokesperson with close ties to Microsoft’s interest on the DVD Forum – which steers the direction of the HD DVD format and marketing – told BetaNews this afternoon that the reasons behind LG’s BH100 hybrid disc player not being approved to bear the official HD DVD logo alongside the official Blu-ray logo, may run much deeper than the player’s lack of support for the HDi interactive layer.

For a device to bear the HD DVD logo, the spokesperson told us, it must also feature a network connection for so-called “networked community scenarios;” support for persistent storage features such as saving bookmarked scenes from a video, or downloading a trailer; and a secondary decoder for picture-in-picture support of concurrent commentary tracks and other features. “HD DVD discs take advantages of these guaranteed hardware features,” he said, “[which] are required if a player wants an HD DVD logo.”

The hardware for these features may very well reside on the BH100; but if the HD DVD side of the player doesn’t utilize them, then based on what our HD DVD source told us, it falls outside of the guarantee implied by the HD DVD official logo. He also stated he believes all HD DVD discs utilize some form of HDi, at a minimum, for menuing purposes.


A spokesperson for LG Electronics confirmed to BetaNews this morning that its BH100 hybrid blue-laser disc player, which the company purported at CES two weeks ago would play both Blu-ray and HD DVD movies, cannot play back content from HD DVD's HDi interactive layer. As a result, the player cannot bear the official logo for the format as licensed by the DVD Forum.

What this means is that there will likely be limits with regard to the extent LG will be able to attribute the BH100 with the HD DVD format. But such limitations may not apply to retailers such as Best Buy, which is selling the BH100 from its Web site now. Best Buy calls the player "next-generation HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc format compatible, for true HDTV video with amazing color and incredible high-resolution surround sound."

Since HDi is considered part of the HD DVD format, claims such as this one may be brought into question by skeptical consumers, the sheer volume of which was verified last year by the underwhelming uptake for both high-def formats.

"LG Electronics has worked through all appropriate channels to bring this unique product to market," the LG spokesperson told BetaNews. "As outlined during the product introduction at CES, the BH100 fully supports Blu-ray Disc player standards, and is capable of accessing and playing audio-video content from HD DVD discs in full HD resolution. As previously detailed by LG, it does not access 'HDi' interactive content available on many HD DVD discs and as such will not carry a licensed HD DVD logo; however, users can still access LG's software-based advanced menu for HD DVD."

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CES 2007: LG

The HDi layer (formerly known as the iHD layer) contains the instruction set necessary for an HD DVD disc to present its own menuing system. Its underlying technology is based on ECMAscript, the international standard for JavaScript, and was created as a joint project of Microsoft and Disney. The iHD standard was proposed for both blue-laser formats, though the Blu-ray Disc Association officially rejected it in favor of Sun's Blu-ray Java (BD-J), reportedly over the objections of some Association members.

While LG says HDi is available on "many HD DVD discs," the actual number is probably somewhere closer to "virtually all." Apparently, LG's "advanced menu" generates titles and chapters for HD DVD discs on the fly.

"Regardless," the spokesperson continued, "the capability to play movies in both formats is a huge consumer benefit. With demonstrated strong support from major U.S. retailers and content producers, LG Electronics' introduction of the Super Multi Blue player helps end consumer confusion and hesitation in the high-definition disc marketplace."

However, the confusion may actually have only increased a notch or two. At CES, LG representatives told BetaNews the BH100 only supports HDMI 1.2 connections to amplifiers and displays. Players currently available for either high-def format that support HDMI 1.3 have upgraded bandwidth, allowing for newer, lossless high-def audio formats such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Plus, newer portable HD camcorders may use a miniature connector that is only compatible with HDMI 1.3 equipment.

A recent check of prices elsewhere on the Best Buy Web site show Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray player selling for $799.99, and Toshiba's HD-A2 player selling for $499.99. Meanwhile, LG's BH100 sells for $1,199.99 - a savings of only about $100.

As the letdowns persist, consumers may have already started wondering whether the BH100 deserves the moniker "the real deal."

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By HarmonRT

edited Jan 24, 2007 - 9:28 AM

I bought an LG BH100 yesterday in Best Buy.
The quality of The Mummy Returns (HDDVD) was OUTSTANDING. Two different Blue Ray DVD's were equal to but in no way any better than any HDDVD. The fact that LG provided a proprietary
software menu for HD DVD is in no way a problem. You can still enter the menu on the fly and make changes while the movie is playing. The real difference is that the actual HDDVD menu is more fancy. As far as not having network support for HDi; the BD100 has a network connection on the back of the unit. The manual states that it is for service personnel use only. I am sure that the proper software upgrade could activate this network connection to be utilized for HDi. Finally, as far as HDMI V1.3 support; there is no doubt that this could corrected with a firmware update. After all, is this not exactly what Toshiba has done with its first generation firmware upgrade to V2.0 which now plays Dolby True HD? The one MAJOR PLUS which the LG BH100 has over all other units at the current time is the fact that it plays HDDVD's at a full 1080P. The picture quality of BlueRay DVD's at 1080P is EXCELLENT; the picture quality of HDDVD's at 1080P is EXCELLENT; and the picture quality of regular DVD's at an upscaled 1080i is EXCELLENT. ISN'T THAT WHAT ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT?

Score: 0

By aredo

posted Jan 24, 2007 - 7:40 AM

The DVD-Forum and Microsoft guys are pretty retarded. Their mafia style wants to oblige manufacturers to follow their dictates.
Their actions are against customers and don't allow a free market to exist.

Score: 0

By ds0934

posted Jan 23, 2007 - 1:41 PM

Again: Doh!!!

Score: 0

By steve17

posted Jan 23, 2007 - 4:15 AM

if u look at it that way: it COULD BE another s***ty tactic from the bluray format. if u put support for both in one player people will jump to have the only player that support for both. then people will hate the HD DVD format in it because it will suck. and the average consumer will get missled into thinking bluray is supperior simply because they didnt support hd dvd accordingly. but the average sonsumer wont realise it.

so what LG is doing is enticing people to buy its product because its advertised well. but people will hate the hd dvd in it and start buying bluray. so LG wins because it will sell alot of their dual players. and bluray wins because it will falsly win support over hd dvd(at least to anyone who buys this particular player)

i see this as just another dirty marketing tactic by the bluray cicle jerk. with LG along for the ride to make some money

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 7:02 PM

Shady dealings? ROFLMAO.

This is simple! It was a stipulation of the licensing agreement from the start!

Sure its more economical to use the same laser diode and to simply modify the R/W assembly to process the different formats, but you just don't seem to get it!

Each camp wants their customer base to be loyal to THEIR particular format! That is their business, to sell THEIR product, not to facilitate you using a competitors format! Duh!

I know that this concept is foreign to most, and it assumes an understanding of business that is just one step above what you might discover on the back of a cereal or game box, but it really isn't that complex!

Score: 0

By kashin

edited Jan 23, 2007 - 2:42 AM

That's all good and well, but tell me, who is going to pay $1200 for a player that fully supports Blu-ray, but has only half-assed support for HD-DVD? Someone who is in favor of Blu-ray won't pay hundreds of extra dollars to also get crippled HD-DVD support. Someone who is in favor of HD-DVD will laugh at this player. The rest, or should I say the majority, who haven't made up their minds yet are going to get even more confused about the formats. Still, no matter which camp you're in, I doubt very much you will be willing to pay $1200 for this thing. A huge miss on LG's part in my opinion. We'll just write this off as a failed publicity stunt I guess.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jan 23, 2007 - 6:24 PM

Thinking they can 'officially' sell the player as licensed for both formats at retail WAS stupid!

But thinking they can sell the re-branded unit as an OEM is NOT stupid! Neither is being able to relabel the unit as either an HD or Blu-Ray unit with the additional cost reduction due to increased economies of scale is SMART.

The more significant target here is in the B2B market, where the ability of a single laser module to interpret both formats reduces costs via the economy of scale. Therefore, if you are a manufacturer of either unit, you can buy the modules for a reduced cost, thus reducing the cost of whichever format you are marketing.

They essentially have a unit that can be branded independently as either format - just not both simultaneously! Talk about reducing production costs! Such a unified platform offers attractive benefits such as No retooling, no separate R&D, and reduced support costs as you reduce the duplication of parts inventories for 2 formats... the only traumatic choice is the format label!

Failed publicity stunt, huh? Are you aware of the dual processing unit now? Do you think other retailers are? And if you are a retailer who does not want to incur the R&D, manufacturing and support costs, do you think that such a unified multi-functional unit might be an attractive product to simply be re-branded as your own? Especially if it (even if unofficially) has the rep of playing both formats? Duh...

If nothing else, the announcement that the fact that the module exists will be great for making many OEM players aware of the module! And LG can expense the cost of the unit as promotion.

Of course, I personally do not know if they are using NEC's processing module or their own. But in any event, I am sure that there are plenty of 'eye's wide open' marketing bucks behind the announcement at as prominent an industry playground as CES.

Especially as LG OEM's plenty of units for others!!! Stop and think of who the real marketing target might really be? It is other retail marketers who want a lower cost source of players in either format.

For some reason, I really don't think they care if a bunch of teenagers and college kids think they are cool.

And as far as laughing at units... ANYONE dumb enough to buy ANY of the overpriced under-performing units of either format is to be laughed at!

Instead, the real question is, who is buying and selling in the business community. And now everyone knows that LG has a product suitable for either market available to be OEMed. And who knows, if word just happens to get out that it works with the other format - even without that fancy little label, hey, that just might help sales and make it a bit more attractive as well!

And why do I think that the price is extremely attractive at the B2B level...After all, this is a niche that LG has excelled in!

Score: 0

By mjm01010101

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 4:27 PM

No confusion:
Mess.

I hope both formats die quick deaths this year and we can move on to the next format, or better yet: Google save us and roll out fiber to every doorstep!

Score: 0

By steve17

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 4:21 PM

isnt LG a blu ray backer from the start? if they r so confident then y back both formats? maby a hint people r figuring out blu ray isnt gonna make it and doesnt want to put all their eggs in one basket perhaps?

Score: 0

By plague201

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 7:04 PM

As far as I know LG only makes players. This is good for LG even if they are supporters of blu-ray. They will sell more players.

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By kashin

edited Jan 22, 2007 - 3:34 PM

It wouldn't surprise me too much if this was due to some shading dealings with Sony and the Blu-ray association behind the scenes. They probably told LG they can include HD-DVD alongside Blu-ray just as long as HD-DVD support is crippled. Yet another underhanded move to try and persuade potential buyers to choose Blu-ray over HD-DVD. All this says to me is; "We support both formats, but Blu-ray is better." No thank you. Next.

Also, why are all these next generation, high definition players the size of VCRs from the 80's? While iPods and other high tech gadgets keep getting smaller, why do we have to put up with these Blu-ray/HD-DVD monstrosities in our living rooms?

Score: 0

By plague201

edited Jan 22, 2007 - 1:20 PM

"LG's "advanced menu" generates titles and chapters for HD DVD discs on the fly."

So we still get to play the movie, minus the fancy menus?

If thats the case, then its not a big deal: to me atleast. I'm sure some troll will have issues with it though.

The $1200 price tag isn't conforting though. xbox360 + HD-DVD = $600, PS3 = $600. I'd rather get both of these consoles for the same price...

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 2:48 PM

It would be really nice if there were a way to prevent the playback of HD-DVD's altogether if the player being used did not support HDi. If hardware companies start cutting corners like this on either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD then both formats will be doomed.

Score: 0

By Maymne

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 5:02 PM

Think... the next step is compatibility and branding, and do you really want companies to be able to make that their movies may have 'issues' playing in their competitors players? Where Sony can say, you can watch our movies in everyone's players... except for theirs. Because with our new aware disk, it knows that we hate them.

Honestly, you're basically suggesting coming up with a new format completely, because if you make that the non-compatible players that CAN play it now can't anymore, the old players that did use the layer will probably have issues (with at least some of them, since not everyone handles everything the same).

On second thought... maybe you work for the manufacturers, and that's why you're wanting everyone to buy a new officially branded player every 6 months so we can watch our new overpriced movies... :)

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Jan 23, 2007 - 2:24 AM

I'm not suggesting a new, incompatible format. I'm simply saying that full HDi support in the hardware should be required if you're going to claim HD-DVD support of any kind considering that every single HD-DVD disc ever released to the general public uses HDi. Without HDi, you can't access the menus on the HD-DVD disc which in turn means no bonus features of any kind. The lack of HDi support also means locating a specific chapter will be extremely difficult.

This nothing more than a lame attempt by LG to get people to switch to the inferior Blu-Ray format.

Score: 0

By TomeOne

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 2:24 PM

As more devices come out and the formats gain a little more mainstream appeal, I'm sure prices will drop too.

Score: 0

By ds0934

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 1:03 PM

Doh!!!!

Score: 0

By Dev3lop3

posted Jan 22, 2007 - 12:14 PM

BURN.

Score: 0