This is stupid. How many fanboys do you need to fill a forum? Apple screwed up - Microsoft screwed up. Who the heck cares who is at fault if they have to fix their computer after the screw up?

It seems Apple needs to have better anti-virus controls in place and Microsoft needs a better operating system. Both companies come out of this looking like little kids on the playground.

However, the last thing Microsoft needs to go around chiding is how Apple needs better quality checks in place.

i love the use of "Microsofts Poon."

I am glad that the swiss cheeze factory at Redmond acknowledges product quality checking problems all over board. If a company has some serious problem in that department, Microsoft is the clear winner.

Too funny, Microsoft mad about creating a platform wide open to vulnerabilities and not owning up to its responsiblilty. Plays into Apple's dab. Very funny, please more. On the other side, boo Apple for that stab, though the reaction was very funny and immature from MS.

Oh, wait, I see the Internet Explorer 7 out and already succeptible to old vulnerabilities. Too funny.

"Is it now open season for Zune to come up with their own ad to highlight this incident, as a direct response to the video ad?" asked Microsoft's Poon.

I can see the MS ad now...

"Even Apple can source a virus that compromises our system."

"Steve, if you need someone to advise on how to improve your quality checks, feel free to contact me",

Meaning: Based upon our vast experience and expertise, MS can teach YOU how to design such a fundamentally flawed system as well. An object lesson in what to avoid.

oh who cares. next thing al gore will be blamed for illegal file sharing cuz he invented the internet.

What I don't understand is why there is any form of data on these devices in the first place. I respect the fact that quality control test the devices before release to retail but I thought it was the end user that installs the ie "Ipod Software" on first installation?

Valid point despite the cold shot.Everyone, we have dealt with viruses and spyware for 10 years now. Do I detect wool over the eyes of america? License agreement anyone? In not so much time we will loose huge market foothold to foriegn nations in the technology arena. Why? Because we are still dealing with the same computer problems that we had 10 years ago. MS windows represents an evolutionary step backwards in technology. It keeps breaking and we keep paying for the repair concept. Symantec, MCafee, ect. In most other arena's if someone made such a lemon of a product they would have gone out of buisness. However the average american is afraid to lean or associate with anything they will have to learn about. At least in my experience. Gates stole a lot of idea's from apple when he left their team in '84. Possibly he could get a few more and secure his flawed operating system? Or is it that MS makes so much off their lisencing agreements they dont want viruses to go away?

If you take your kid to the "convienant and familiar" daycare facility and he or she keeps coming back sick would you give the school more money to hire contractors (10 years worth) to deal with the health concerns or would you find a different day care facility?

I beg all who read this article to stop supporting the monopoly of MS and think about a different solution. I dont want to see my kids flipping burgers with useless technolgy educations because we dont have any technology companies left that compete in the marketplace.

Linux is free and getting very easy to use and adapt to. 1000's of progams come with linux that you would have to buy with MS. No viruses! Macs start at less than MS office. No viruses! I applaud apple for making the statement that we should have made 9 years and 11 months ago. Did I read Apple let a total of 25 incidents of this virus out of their contractors facility? Did I also read that they sold over 8 million ipods in one quarter? In the grand scheme 25 is not very much compared to Ford with the goodyear thing and the recent exploding battery scare from Sony. Didnt we find a cure for aids in less than 10 years( still testing but affirmed)? IE 7 already has reported expoits. In fact the same day it was released. Think about it.....

OK, just thought I would have a bash since everyone else seems to be doing. I dont love Ms I dont love apple. But anyone with any brains would realise that virus writers go for glory (they want there name out there) So if yu wanted to get your name out there who would you write a virus for 10% of the population (mac) or the rest (ms).Its a waste of there time writing for macs...

So before you bash, think........

I disagree. Yes...by all means, think...

Writing a virus for Windows is old news. Heck, I suspect just about half the world's population has at least one to their credit. ;-)

Being the 387th person to climb to the summit of Mt Everest is no longer a newsworthy story.

But writing a virus for the Mac would be news. Not some hackneyed university lab virus that only runs in a sandbox (for all the Windows folks that don't know what that is, its not what you routinely play in... ;-) as a proof of concept, but a real virus or worm that is able to traverse the breadth of OSX and cause damage would be a REAL feather in a malware author's cap. And whomever accomplishes the feat will become a cultural legend overnight. Their presence would be fought over by the Tonight show, David Letterman and any number of shows!

After all, there is no news in simply repeating what myriad numbers of others have done. Real notoriety comes from doing what has not been done. Especially if so many say it can't be done! So its not the script kiddies that have the Mac in their sights, its the accomplished malware authors looking for a challenge and the accompanying notoriety.

And thus far it has proven more difficult than many imagined. It will be interesting to see how someone does it from a technical POV if and when someone accomplishes it. And they will have earned the notoriety, as its going to take more than a simple buffer overrun.

That is a very good argument, but I think it is possibly flawed in a number of places.

The lack of viruses on the Mac *is* due to market share ... sort of.

There are more Windows machines, it has more technical people who are familiar with its internals than any other operating system. So naturally, you will have many more people who are capable of writing a virus for it, than the Mac. This has nothing to do with it being secure, which would make little difference anyway since most viruses actually get onto a machine by users just opening them up and running them.

More importantly, the one thing that you need when writing a virus, is a machine to test it on. Script kiddie wakes up, decides he’s going to write a virus. He could write one for the Mac, but that means he would have to shell out a couple of hundred quid for it, then once the virus is written, he’s left with a machine that won’t run any of he games or software that came with the PC he already has. So, Script Kiddie saves himself a wodge of cash for his drug habit, and just uses his PC to get the virus done.

The final point about notoriety I’m not convinced about either. Writing a virus for a tiny number of users, pales into insignificance when compared to a virus that can potentially spread to millions of machines and cause untold numbers of global enterprises to lose billions of dollars in the space of few days.
In the bad old days, some virus outbreaks were so bad that the BBC devoted whole broadcasts to covering them; that’s what your virus writer wants.

Now of course you have the virus professional; writing exploits designed to swipe your personal and financial details or encrypting your files so they can blackmail you for the decryption code. Same rule applies; maximum profit for the least amount of outlay. Is it worth writing an exploit for 3.7% of the computing population, especially when you have to learn about its internals, then buy a machine. Surely it would better to make use of the Windows boxes you already have (or can build untraceably) and hit 95%.

That’s my take.

If they only had a machine they could write a virus??

Not quite...

You need to learn a bit more about the architecture of OSX.

With the Mac, it doesn't matter if he only infects his OWN machine! He will be on the front page of every IT periodical!

I mean, if so few people have so few Macs, why are so many Windows fanboys so rabidly obsessed with it here? The proper response for something inconsequential is to ignore it! After all, its inconsequential!

And the Mac - despite your reputed idea that it is so insignificant - is even the focus of the news because 25 Windows users are infected by the absurd low-fi genre represented by Apple in the form of the iPod. Statistically, this is an utterly insignificant event in the realm of IT. I thought no one cares, after all, no one uses it. Really!? The fact that we are here debating it negates that argument.

But, just as the hacking of the Wi-Fi chipset common to most PCs (of which the Mac is simply one - and Yes! It IS just a PC - albeit elegantly designed) resulted not in the news coverage that Wi-Fi had been hacked (like that is news...) but that 'the MAC' had been hacked - the realities of the situation being completely missed by the ignorance of all of the news and the fanboys who only cared that it was about 'the Mac'..

And your comment regarding "Outbreaks in the past"... I find it interesting that you seem to think that viruses are past oriented, and that the threat has since decreased since the 'bad old days'. Unfortunately the sophistication of the threats has not only advanced significantly, but the frequency of them has increased exponentially. The threat has increased dramatically!

The fact is that the architecture of OSX makes it difficult to write a virus for it. Not only that, but OSX is operating 'naked' without any anti-vurus applications! And precisely because it has not been heretofore effectively compromised in the real world, it is a target. And it has NOT escaped thus far because script kiddies cannot find a machine.

It is a target for the same reason we are even talking about 'such an insignifant machine' in your estimation! The more exotic the challenge, the more prestigious the reward. And right now, OSX is the OS that claims it is more immune than any other desktop environment yo compromise by malware. Even if there were only one OSX based machine operating with the claim that it is not subject to viruses, it would still be the Holy Grail to crack.

Whoever succeeds in writing a real world virus for the Mac will certainly be discussed in this forum as well as everywhere else. Move over Bono.

In fact, if anyone does succeed, all they have to do is set up a demonstration as a white hat showing that it is possible. And then they should promptly call me, as I would love to act as their manager - if only to get a percentage of their negotiated salary as they are offered a lucative sum to either work for Apple OS development or to start a lucrative security consultancy.

Oh my GOD! Tell Apple to watch their quality control! Microsoft is like a screen door, its so full of holes. I don't know why anyone would use Windows anymore, they are a total joke. By the looks of things, it's going to cost more to put Windows and their 'productivity software' than your computer is worth. $500 for Windows and $700 for Office! Who's paying this?!? I think MS is going for a cash grab because they have dug themselves into a huge crater of debt with all their 'innovative new products'.

If everybody refuses to pay this extortion money, we will soon be rid of this bloated, mutated behemouth once and for all. Down with MicroSoft and their unfair business practices!

Another Concerned and Disgusted Citezen.

Down with MS? You are as bad as the Down with Apple idjets!

You have choices! make them!

And please be just a little swooft and assume a smidgen of responsibility (look the meaning up) for taking reasonable precautions - whichever OS you use!

So do you throw these comments in to make it seem like your are not biased?

LOL Microsoft is like a screen door full of holes. You bring up a good point about the cost of windows and office. Pretty soon all those teenagers and PC users will find their pirated version of MS software no longer works. If you get a cracked version...your getting software that lets your PC also get hacked into. LOL Heck many users around the world will find the software that they stole that used to run for free will no longer work...Microsoft is slowly turning off the taps. Microsoft will make sure some virus wrecks older PC's and there will be nothing you can do about it. If you dont upgrade to Vista they will have to spend hours trying to keep the wind from blowing through that screen door and it will only get worse as Microsoft focuses on the newer platform trying to keep it from also getting hacked. I know, I owned licesed windows products and still got hacked and hammered with everything. Heck Vista will still fall prey to getting hacked...so simply the windows solution is the hacked and cracked solution. Windows simply does NOT work!

In other words XP will be left with open vulnerabilities I bet to make you want to upgrade. LOL Talk about a waste of time as Vista will also leave you open just take a look at the newest IE 7 to give you an idea on how well MS is with security. You can buy an imac for less then your lost time and productivity your going to face supporting a PC with windows. For the price of playing games, get a console like an X-box or playstation instead (for about the cost of 1 PC video card upgrade). From there you just plug the game in and it works...zero setup time and upgrades. Everyday I see PC users telling you you cant play games as easily...well how easy is your PC to run games when its getting hacked all the time?

I have been sucked down the path "about games and a PC for years". The mac cant play games...blah blah blah. The fact is your PC is garbage to try and stay running without getting hacked and game conflicts with video cards etc...the PC route with games is simply not a good solution. Dont fall for the PC games TRAP. Dont waste money trying to keep your PC running games.

From here on in Vista will also be turning away all those who are not legitimately licensed and also turning off people who try to move the OS to a better drive or for who upgrades often. So PC users are FORCED to have to spend money here. I dont want to get into a talk on that Vista license bit. But I do think it challenges all those that say there is no reason for teenagers to try to write a virus for a mac. The mac mini is pretty cheap and it comes with pretty much everything you need right out of the box as you can re-use your PC monitor and USB keyboard/mouse. If they cant afford that but have the time, they could try emulating a mac with PearPC or similar with their old PC. So with emulation software around, why cant someone write an OS X virus? With a PC they are soon forced to have to upgrade the hardware...so with a PC we are talking about a significant cash outlay. The PC is no longer the cheaper choice as your are FORCED to spend to upgrade hardware and software.

PC consumers are faced with forced hardware and software upgrades. Your mention of "$500 for Windows and $700 for Office"...many of those PC users who have been hobbling along XP for years waiting for the upgrade may not want to shell out the cost--They may be sticker shocked... when they compare it to a mac mini or linux which is free. I bet many PC users will get burned first buying Vista and finding out they need more Ram or it runs too slow and they need a faster processor. What are they going to do when they find they need to move to a new machine...buy another new Vista license? Whoa HA HA HA! They are SUNK HOOK LINE AND SINKER!!! I got hammered with that before...bought windows 98 and it was flawed, so I sprung for windows ME and it also was flawed but was touted as a more stable solution. Then XP finally came out and I bought XP and it still didnt help. Vista is not going to work either...it will give you a few months grace and then years of HELL.

After all Vista is going to want you to upgrade your PC to run, so why not just get a mac instead? After all a mac can also run windows if you have too. I suspect many will find apps that do all they need under OS X and from there they can say goodbye to 99.9% of the viruses and vulnerabilities of the PC. Make the move now before you waste time and more money with windows.

I know I got sick of fighting hackers and spyware and viruses for my PC. I spent hundreds of dollars supporting norton/symantec and the like and in the end all those all still failed...nothing can protect a windows PC. A move to the mac with OS X saved me time and money and I ended up with a more enjoyable computer. If I was a student I'd have more time to study rather then fixing my old PC with windoze.

So whats this tell you? There is no reason why Mac OS X will not be targeted in the future and your right that the prize for anyone writing a mac virus will gain worldwide instant attention. Many people who currently own a PC when they find out their windows no longer runs or their office apps, they may spring for a mac that can run both and maybe....just maybe allow them to stay online using OS X and still running some legacy office and older windows apps rather then moving to expensive Vista hardware and software upgrades. In the end Mac OS X will still do a fine job patching the operating system and you will not have to spend your life scanning for stuff on your computer like you do with a PC under windows.

Its time for them to move to OS X, or try installing Ubuntu and moving to Linux with your old PC. With the cheap mac upgrade I was running right from out of the box, was connected to the internet in 10 minutes from opening the box and moved my PC data and had it opening the very first day. In fact my cheap mac mini ran better and faster then my more expensive PC. It took less time to switch then what it took to rebuild my flawed windows PC too. Either way I dont think many will find the Vista route to be an cheap way to go. In the long run less and less will be able to afford to run a PC with Windows and keep it online.

The mac just got a whole lot cheaper and popular. As for Ubuntu Linux, I just removed windows from my old PC and have spent the better part of 3 days getting it up and running. Expect a bit of a steeper learning curve getting software running, but once it does run it will stay updated and less suceptable from attacks then Windows does. OS X is far superior for ease of use.

Out of all three the mac for the small outlay of cash is simply the easiest to use giving you stability and peace of mind without having to learn anything complicated. Since the new macs can also run windows...this is a good time to leave the windows blues behind.

I use Linux, and I love it. Although I do not like Microsoft much, Apple's statement riles me a bit because when you make a mistake, you don't take crack shots at the victim like these, no matter how true they are. It's a matter of professionalism and courtesy, and this statement just bolsters how elitist and snobbish Apple can be.

BOTH parties are wrong, both MS AND Apple.

The real irony is that "...we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it" is a correct statement!

And now Windows is the victim!?!? Do you live in California?

Now go run around and play in the street and blame the cars.

Oh, and for grins, lets take a look:

Microsoft Ships Virus to Developers
Wazzu virus included in Word document
Microsoft Corp. has acknowledged that it included a virus on SCDRs (Special CD-ROM) that were shipped to 14,000 developers worldwide...
http://www.dgl.com/dglinfo/1996/dg961023.html

Microsoft security fixes infected with FunLove virus
Is this the worst security screw up ever? A virus infection of security fix files on Microsoft's partner and premier support Web sites has forced the software giant to suspend certain downloads for more than a fortnight.
http://www.theregister.c...security_fixes_infected/

Microsoft Inadvertently Ships Nimda Virus in Visual Studio .NET
http://www.windowsitpro....icleID/25672/25672.html

Yep, its all about Apple. I guess you could say they learned from the master...

How many more examples do you need?

Now where does that line form to learn about QC from MS?

The problem I have with it, sure MS shipped a virus or two on accident in the past...but...they didnt blame Apple or anyone else for it. Apple on the other hand turned right around and said yea we messed up BUT...quick look at those terrible guys over there!

It was stupid and immature, I liken it to school yards kids shouting about how one of them is more stupid then the other one.

Ah well...i'm not likely going to buy an Apple anyway, I prefer choice.

Apple admitted fault and turned around and stated the obvious. Windows is an accident waiting to happen. It is so vulnerable that even MS has repeatedly distributed viruses in their own distribution.

Debate the tone and attitude and project your perception and emotional assumptions about what you think Apple was thinking all you want.

The fact is, beyond all of the emotional reactions, what Apple said, whether you want to hear it or not, is fundamentally correct. The fact that they accepted blame and also pointed out the obvious does not make what they said incorrect.

It simply points out the 10 ton elephant that is standing in the middle of the room!

The difference is that MS owned up and took the hit on the chin.

Apple throws out a statement completely lacking in class, in the hope that their more vocal desciples will help divert the blame from them.

Well look at that ... It worked!

Looks like your last example happened in 2002; plenty of time for Microsoft AND Apple to learn from it.

It shouldn't have happened and as I said, their response shows no class.

I use Linux and Love it...

I find Windows as useful as a screen door on a submarine too but nobody seems to remember that OSX has had viruses and I don't recall the media making a big deal out of it.

http://www.lowendmac.com/lite/03/0813.html

Yes im sure it was all completely innocent on apples part :rollseyes:

BTW, I have this great bridge I can sell you...real cheap...honest...

What can I say... you are of course right!

The benefit Apple received by infecting a grand total of 25 kids' computers who use iPods is definately worth all of the bad publicity!

Just like MS had a vested interest in distrubuting infected updates on multiple occassions...

Grow up and push your conspiracy laden innuendo elsewhere.

But I completely understand how You (of all people) ended up with a bridge that you are trying to dump on someone 'less intelligent' than yourself. Good luck finding another one so swooft... ;-)

LOL how do those blinders feel? Are they nice and comfy?

Yes yes, I see your another one of those morons who believes anyone that disagrees with them is somehow less intelligent and stupid. Whatever, trying to have a conversation with people like you is usually futile and you've quickly proven that to be true.

Apple admitted fault and turned around and stated the obvious.
Technically true; but the other way around chronologically. Apple blamed MS, and appended an apology to that statement. Thats like someone falling down a manhole, and the workers blaming the person for not watching where they were going before admitting they should've put caution-tape or cones up before removing the cover. Yes, the person should watch where they are going; but people don't generally stare at the ground in front of them all day, and have a certain expectation of warning for such things.

Yes, Windows is vulnerable if not protected properly; but Apple is guilty of dereliction of duty for not insuring a safe product was distributed.

Some facts that seem to be over looked.

1. Discovery Date 06/20/2006
2. Apple(Or ANY company) that ships a virus with their products needs to faces action.
Even if the virus was 4 months (159+ days old)
I would give them so more room if this virus was a 0day but it is BY far not!

This could cost a company or use lots of damage and like a pharma company that puts out a drug that hurts or kills people. There needs to be standards!

Did you know that the US Military uses iPod videos for training.. etc..

How much did Sony pay for infecting users with there virus.. now they did pay to have that virus made.. Who knows maybe Apple hires virus writers!?

Millions sold...25 reported cases.

Newsflash: iPods kill!

So now Apple, like Sony, intentionally initiated a new virus. Get that window in your stomach cleaned so that you can see where you are going with your head up that place it shouldn't be...

And how much did MS pay after doing this multiple times effecting more people than Any of the incidents you mention? Opps...gee that selective attention sure is cute as we ignore the greater reality...

Yeah, like they had to hire professional malware authors. All they had to do was to find any high school student to tear a hole in Windows.

OK. OK. I realize that the HS student would have to be from the Former Soviet Union as the US students are too stupid to do it as they are too busy whining about DRM.

And still the "What me worry" response by Windows users regarding malware.

And if a pharmaceutical company is operating without adherance to SOX, HIPPA, ISO17799 and the COSO and COBiT standards, THEY are both legally irresponsible and liable!

The irony is that it was not a new unique virus! Anyone with updated anti-virus software and the latest patches (of the ~42 quadrillion patches ;-) would have stopped it.

Newsflash: Kid catches flu from classmate. Parents sue school. Claims school intentionally infected their precious... Parents rebuke responsibility for getting flu shot. They say that although everyone knows that the flu is common and a realistic threat and that schools are the major vector for transmission, that its not their responsibility to be responsible for taking resonable steps to protect their own @ss.

Is a school responsible..well, considering Johnny still can't read, probably not. Is Apple negligent in their QC, sure. Are individuals irresponsible - of course. Are they responsible for their own stupidity and negligence - certainly.

Its time that ALL companies become more responsible for their products. And yes, that includes MS as well as Apple!

And its time for the whiny @ssed victim rant from people to cease. If you can't handle and be responsible for taking reasonable care to mitigate voluntary risk, don't participate in the activity. If you want to assume the role and eschew responsibility for reasonable due diligence in the face of widely known risks and prefer instead to play the victim, enjoy the ride.

If you voluntarily participate in high risk activity without protection, you have yourself to blame. Don't blame others for having unprotected sex with high risk partners - you can claim full responsibility for your irresponsible action. It solves nothing to debate how your sexual partner previously contracted AIDS. The solution is within your control - regardless of what stupidity others exhibit.

And running Windows without effective anti-virus is stupidity in action that is equivalent to engaging in high risk sex without (at minimum) a condom.

I am tired of the "but McDonald's served me hot coffee that I was so irresponsible to spill on myself while I was was trying to drink coffee while I was supposed to be driving" defense. Its not a defense. It is a statement of their own incompetence. And by all means take their drivers license away!

Besides, everyone should realize that playing with Windows is like playing with a hemophiliac!

Sony did and now Apple Hmmmmmm

"Indeed, they published a press release, apologized for it, and did not insinuate that Windows was the cause of their issue..."

Interesting, especially as: "Christopher Budd from Microsoft's Security Response Center says the flaw lies not in IE7, but in an Outlook Express component" did.

Is Poon kidding? What is patch Tuesday - a doll club?

“According to reports, a meeting of some kind did take place”, despite “some of those participants (being) inadvertently shut out of the meeting”

“The cause, apparently, was technical difficulties with Microsoft's Live Meeting.”

"Microsoft is apparently withholding further comment until later this afternoon, when it will evidently have rebooted some of its Live Meeting systems."

"In the meantime, MacDonald suggested that vendors instead recognize the positive benefits of Microsoft's architectural changes, and simply change their plans."

Meanwhile, in another part of the MS Empire: "Christopher Budd from Microsoft's Security Response Center says the flaw lies not in IE7, but in an Outlook Express component."

Fast forward:
"Steve, if you need someone to advise on how to improve your quality checks, feel free to contact me."

Yeah, like that will be a long line!!

So many "positive benefits"...its hard to keep up with them all.

Now That's funny!

"Steve, if you need someone to advise on how to improve your quality checks, feel free to contact me."

That's funny.

But it had to be said.

Yep, Christopher Bud was correct.