Here is another example of how Microsoft is trying to grab our private information for their data warehouse! When you use a service that requires Passport, they ask for your year of birth. If you put in a year that makes you 13 years old or younger, you will not be able to use that Passport registration until you provide the following personal information!! I wrote to Microsoft to ask to have it changed and below is their reply. The only item left that Microsoft needs to have it ALL is a copy of our social security card!!
================================
6/13/2006
Thank you for writing to Microsoft Passport Network Technical Support. This is Mina and I understand that you have incorrectly entered your birth date on your account xxxx@xxxx.com. Thus, you are now being prompted for your parent's permission to access your account.

I realize how inconvenient this can be and I look forward to helping you with your concern. When you register for a Microsoft Passport Network account, you are asked for your birth date. If you enter a date that indicates that your age is 13 and below, Microsoft Passport Network automatically provides you with a child's Microsoft Passport Network account.

To use a child's Microsoft Passport Network, you must be granted permissions by a parent or guardian. This is in accordance with the US Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) that requires web site operations to obtain parental consent prior to the collection, use, disclosure, or display of a child's personal information.

To update the status of your Microsoft Passport Network Passport account, please follow these steps:

Note: You must have a valid credit card.
1. Visit the Microsoft Passport Network Account Services website: https://accountservices.passport.net

2. When you see the "You need permission to use MSN" page, click "I'm an adult. Why am I seeing this page?"

3. Click "Yes" to confirm that you are an adult. 4. Enter your credit card information, and then click "Continue".

Note: No charge is made to your credit card, and the Microsoft Passport Network discards your credit card number as soon as the number is verified. As part of the verification, a temporary $1 hold is put on your credit card account. This hold is not a charge, and it is removed from your account in a way that is determined by the credit card issuer.

5. After your credit card is verified, click "Continue".
6. Click "Done" to update your birth date.
7. Make sure that the year that you enter for your birth date is correct, or your account may revert to a child's account.

Alternatively, you can submit the required information by mail or by fax to prove that you are an adult without providing credit card information.

To correct the birth date on file for a Microsoft Passport Network account, you must submit a photocopy of an official identification form that includes a date of birth. The identification can be one of the following items:

- Driver's license
- State-issued identification card
- National passport

This information is used only to verify user identity and to verify that the user is not under 13 years of age. Along with the document photocopy, submit the following information by fax or mail:
- Ticket number from the e-mail message sent by MSN support
- First name
- Last name
- Date of birth

------=_NextPart_000_00F0_01C68F3D.85B77E50--

Well,
I read all of your comments about all Biggest B.S. WGA! I having problems with WGA few months & I can't play anything at all. Music,Chats,games,etc. It doesn't make any fking sense to use fking WGA. No fking Wonder that Bill (Gates--means locked up) Oh fking christ WAKE UP BILL OPEN FKING GATES NOW. The WGA saying that I'm counterfiert! HEY I'M NOT FKING COUNTERFERIT. I try deleted the fking WGA. I couldn't deleted it at all. I feel like to put PC outside & drive truck run over it
Well, There is many many people has same problem too. I used to have my laptop I have no problems with it. The Window98 is fking best!! I agree with few people's comments too. WGA is biggest ****ed.

Is anyone really surprised? Really?

I was aware of this almost from the moment WGA went onto my machine, but choose to ignore it for now as an example of more corporate spyware. I was also amused about how all the big firewalls I tested against it over the next few days instantly made way and opened a path for it unless told explicitly not to!)

Microsoft (and other companys) have steadily been sliding down the Drm/Spyware-its not your computer-its our plaything-slope for years now.
To the point where I no longer have any confidance at all in thier motives and intentions.

(Or of our well-lobbied governments ability/willingness to perform its duty to protect us from excess)

I now view my computer as a bastion under seige by powerful outside forces determined to usurp it for thier own profit and purposes.

And they will probably win, eventually..... The politicians are well greased, and laws hidden and obscure (and often almost directly written by the software companys) are on the table that pretty much completely take control of your machine away....for thier profit, of course.

I can see myself eventually abandoning the Pc (like I have mostly abandoned network television) for anything but light web-surfing. It just wont be fun for anything else with you having to get permission from Redmond and others to even fart. (shrugs)

The stupid part is I DO have legal copies of XP for all of my 4 home machines.... (at last count, I have about 10 legal copies of various forms of windows 6 of them windows XP!) But having to call big brother everytime I wanted to make a change on MY machine(s) (MINE DAMMIT!) Was absolutly rage-inducing!

I am (was) since my early teens an early adaptor; first to buy and try almost every new consumer electronic hardware and (usefull) software product. It was an expensive but fun hobby, but now I buy almost nothing (Bye bye HDTV & Blueray!) because its all spy-ridden cripple-ware.

(Same with music!) :-( I once had an ENORMOUS collection of cd's, all purchased. But all the eventual spying and Drm and God knows what else just tuned me off till I lost interest.

Not to mention hearing about the lawsuits! I have not bought a Cd in years because of that, and dont even download music even though I easily could. (and my cds are mostly in poor shape now from being stored and forgotton in the basement for years. Its all just to much BS for a bunch of increasingly Mediocre crap.. (sighs)

I dont watch MTV anymore, and Dont often listen to music on the car radio. (I like NPR, and I DONT like big corporations sueing and bullying people left and right)

well, when a friend offered me corporate version of XP to play with one year, BOOM! I became a convert/pirate! Not because I did not want to pay, but because I am a grown man who does not want to call Mommy to use my own dang computers whenever I changed anything (which was VERY VERY often!)

Activation frustration left me primed to jump at this opportunity! And led directly to my falling off of the "Legal" bandwagon.

Now this Wga stuff comes along to FORCE us to bend over and take it, and my response is NOT to go back to my licensed copies.... Its to duck and dodge and to explore Linux (and other options) seriously for the first time ever.

I have in the last 2 months switched all of my machines to open office, and am encouraging friends to do the same. I am useing firefox and Videolan rather than Explorer and Windows Mediaplayer, and I am Slowly (carefully) dipping my foot into the deep waters of linux.
(All in response to WGA!)

Not because I want to; (all this stuff is hard!) but because I feel microsoft is literally giving me no choice if I intend to keep some control over my own machine(s)!

In a move I NEVER thought would happen, I can now see myself being totally LINUX within the year, and all of the machines I build for family and friends (literally dozens) will then go that way as well. (The good side to that is that the expense (which I ALWAYS hated, of buying windows for them goes away as well)

(Even some local mom and pop computer stores I deal with are disgusted enough that they are now going linux and installing open source software on the machines they sell!)

I am sorry. :-( There are MANY MS products I like.... but not enough to give up my free use of my computer. My whole reluctant but increasing conversion to open source began with WGA "Advantage"

(Are you listening, US Congress? No? I thought not. Enjoy your money.)

Anyway.... I LIKE my computer.... but in the end it has to be MY computer... not thiers, or I simply wont use it, and I certainly wont upgrade it or buy new ones that are even more compromised. I need more sun, anyway!

Not surprisingly, the very thought of VISTA now leaves this former early adaptor cold. Totally completely subzero cold. Its just a continuation of this current trend, with me stamping out/disabling and otherwise terminating tendrils of trojan horse corporate spyware with ever increasing annoyance and iritation.

Its to the point now that I am beggining to think of the software companys, the MPA/RIIA and hackers/virus writers as being functionally equivalent!

How do I "KNOW" WGA info is all thats being taken, or that some hacker wont use this conection as an avenue into millions of machines, to install viruses or steal information? (Golly THATS never happened before.....Rolls eyes)

What I DO know is that if that were to happen, we would find that MS is completely covered from any damages, and that our greased politicians will hum and look the other way, like they have (mostly) done with the Sony rootkit case.

Oh, and on a slightly related note, I recently tried Media Player 11, (That old early adaptor itch) and the URGE Eula was one of the scariest things I have ever read. Talk about phoning home!! (Is this America?!)

How did I get mediaplayer 11 when you need Genuine advantage? I converted one machine back to a "Legal" Version to get updates. (Or I could have just gone totally evil and squashed genuine advantage like a bug... it can be done, and after months of research (Again brought on by WGA! I am now more than techy enough to know how!)

:-( :-( :-( But I dont WANT to do that! Cant MS please, please, please offer us other options!? (and stop invading our homes, uninvited?)

Anyway, The player was, after testing, deleted with extreme malice, and my possibly DRM Infected Windows was, after some thought, deleted and reinstalled as well without whatever POO WMP11 probably left behind. :-(
(Yuck!)

And now I dont like/trust MTV, either!

At this point I'm thinking I would sooner just go back to reading more and hanging out with my S/O. (But I am converting thier machine, too!)

In the aftermath of this rude wake up call, I am now becomeing politically active for the first time in my life. I have written to my congressman, (and will be doing so again) and am now registered to vote for the first time ever. Yes, shame on me!

I am VERY troubled by the things I am reading, and VERY unconvinced by the paid corporate types burbling about how cool it will all be, just go back to sleep and trust us.

The fact that most of the politicians pushing this the hardest turn out to be known corparate hand-puppets for the most part is disturbing too.

Yep, spurred by this, I am examining many politicians records..... and coming away shaken. It seems I was living in a dream world where politicains PROTECTED the people and the interests of the MAJORITY, not just of the rich and powerfull. :-(

It seems that what these companies are doing is gaining priviledges we would NEVER (I Hope) allow our government to have, but which we are in a sense giving them anyway... by allowing them to slide in on the coat-tails of the big companies.

And the more I read, and the more websites I encounter(Like this one) while researching whats going on (Again, spurred into action by WGA) the more concerned and even frightened I become about what is slowly happening to the free country I was raised in.

Enough is enough. There has to be a BALANCE between Microsofts (and others) rights and those of the public. I stayed asleep and fat and happy because I stupidly trusted our politicians to find and implement that balance. Instead, our well greased leaders have sold us out completely and attempted to slam and lock the door! (DMCA, anyone?)

Its probably too late, but I am "awake" now, and will do all I can to vote some corrupted "Servants of the People" out of office. Its the only power I have remaining, it seems.

Bleah!!!!
BLEAH!!!

Its all so sad..........

Wow, your post is twice as long as the article you are responing too. Good stuff, but wordy.

Your point is good though...vote and also vote with your wallet by rejecting the products that violate your rights or just plain suck.

Yep (blush) srry.
Started in the morning...went out..came back did some more etc.

I did not know I had written a book till I hit the send button! :-)

Gee, Microsoft do something underhanded? NO!

Folks, get a Mac or install Linux (or FreeBSD or some other unix) and get OVER this dependence on MS. Quit giving up your privacy and security because Windows runs some piece of software you've grown attached to. Windows is NOT the only OS on the planet, and it's certainly not the best.

"I want you to go to your windows, right now, and throw them open, right now, and I want you to yell, 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore...'"--Peter Finch in "Network"

christ is that you just all knowing that microsoft phones home i noticed this since windows media player 9 crap phones home every time your mp3 song ends, so dont use WM9 and above

and to notice the WGA packets use a decent firewall like sygate as this firewall shows outgoing conncetions being made yes the WGA goes to 2 or 3 diffrent ips and uses diffrent ports, their secretly buliding a database your information will be passed onto those parnoid FBI dudes who will come hunt you down because your using a illigal copy and you may be sued for being a terriost and sent to Guantanamo Bay for breaking the Eula code. :)

Microsoft WGA Update message in add remove programs showing updates

THIS UPDATE CANNOT BE REMOVED

ps I have a free rhapsody account available to the first AMERICAN to message me NO BS im CANADIAN and i cant use it here

pens_fan27@yahoo.com

Don't Linux and OSX look better day by day? I THINK SO

Great article about WIN98 issues, huh only if they focus on fixing the bugs in the OS instead of adding "additional hidden features".

http://www.betanews.com/...s_98_Me_Flaw/1149873723

Big brother Microsoft call home.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but there are two WGA tools:

WGA Validation Tool (KB892130)

WGA Notification Tool (KB905474)

It would seem the latter tool is the one that "phones home". Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Now, I never use Automatic Updates, Custom only, so I don't have the WGA Notification tool installed, only the Validation tool, necessary to d/load updates. When I saw its availability and read what it does, I elected to de-select it. "Why do I need it?" I reasoned. Seems I'm not hurting without it, as only the WGA Validation tool is necessary to acquire the updates.

Anyways, I have just scanned the MS Update site using "Custom" as usual, even d/loaded one "important" update, then carefully checked my firewall (Outpost Pro) logs. I could not see any instance of WGA anything connecting out or anything connecting in to it. The only process I could see is the svchost.exe connecting UDP out to localhost and TCP out on ports 80 and 443(https) to a couple different ip's, probably MS, I guess. So unless svchost is being used somehow to phone home to MS (launched by WGA which I doubt because my firewall would kick in) the WGA VALIDATION Tool does not seem to phone home. BTW, I ran the Custom update scan again with the same results; only svchost connecting. And no, the svchost.exe on my machine is not malware, so no need to suggest that may be the case.

For obvious reasons, anyone who has Automatic Updates enabled will have the WGA Notification Tool on their system.

Good point, Ingram - That tirade gets right to the point. Microsoft charges too much for their software, true. That does not entitle you to steal it; it entitles you to consider and use alternative software.

look the reason is its too expensive for a PERSONAL user. All the discounts in the world go to Corporate world, but the personal user is screwed every time... I agree 100% that if a company or person is mass producing pirated copies of the OS and Office and SELLING it as original that is illegal. Microsoft 100% has the right of 1st sell. absolutely...

However you have any idea what Vista Ultimate and Office 2007 professional is expected to cost per machine??? last estament from MS was around $450 for the OS and $600 for the office suite... Now compair that to the corporate world and they get it about 30% cheaper, and don't have these problems with Activation and WGA. That's bull.

An Ave person will not bother putting a unique copy of an OS on their PERSONAL machines in their home, in general it comes with it in OEM but still. Hell I run a Laptop and server and a Workstation. If I was to do that legally I would be out hundreds of dollars, Yet I am only using one at a time, so I put older versions on other machines (they run better that way anyway). In MS eyes I am actually a bigger criminal then the street vendors reselling copies of Windows XP and Office XP for $20US in Taiwan.

And I'll be dammed if I pay the extortion fees for Office on each machine... I switched to open office and it is 100% everything anyone would ever need, and can be put on as many machines as I want for personal use. So why bother with MS at all?

Yes I beta test Microsoft products, and I have to know it in business as its a type of Devil you know aspect. If you don't know MS products you are not a viable computer tech for the business world. So Its a necessary evil, but its not something I'm happy with...

OH I forgot.. Get this one...
I was at one of the so called connections events this lats week and I got a little tidbit that I was really interested in passing on from Both Microsoft reps at the event...

Turns out MS themselves Pirate the OS in the way many of us do to turn off activation and allow for multi copies of the OS to run in their work environment. ESPECIALLY with employees taking the software on the road or home to use.
If we in the private sector try this we are called pirates and persecuted, yet MS employees themselves do it. There is this LIE that MS reps are passing on to Corporate representatives, that IF they get Vista and Office 2007 for their business every single copy of Vista and Office will be allowed to be taken home by the employee using it and put on their machine at home legally. When I asked about how this is possible with activation and WGA they simply said they were not sure, and that they have license experts that can tell us how to address those issues, but that it was something they were guaranteeing was going to be allowed.

Seems to me they said something rather similar to XP pro corporate owners as well when it was first in development, yet now if you use a Windows XP or Office XP pro at home with a business licence you are a pirate. hummm... interesting. Are MS employees LYING again!!! Time will tell.

I can get XP home for $65, how is this expensive? (last time I looked with my employee discount)

Disclaimer: I don't work for Microsoft (heh), but I get the discount.

75$ on pricewatch for a winxp home license, that is not expensive at all. 99$ for the pro edition. How is this expensive? Yes, you can pay $300 to get the packaging, but all you need is a CD, a license, and a key.

I own 4 PCs in two houses and I need to buy a notebook pretty soon, it's just mafia to ask me to buy 5 OS licenses, that's crazy. A single license should cover all my uses, period.

You know, if Microsoft was smart, they'd just send a bunch of sexy girls in short skirts to check your license every time you wanted to do an update. This approach solves 2 problems: People won't mind WGA, and secondly, people keep their software up to date and actually look forward to future updates.

All this narrows down why linux will be the eventual leader.... Microsoft will create such a huge and ridiculous product that is worthless and $1000 a license. A much better and stable product will still be free... Linux....

Yeah, sure. Linux it's worse than Microsoft.

I don't get it. Why are people so upset about it if they're running a legal version of XP? I don't find WGA a hassle, and I'm not at all worried about WGA 'calling home'....even if it DID send something substantial. I guess I would care if I was on dialup and every bit of bandwidth mattered or if I had a pirated copy of XP, or I was doing something that wasn't allowed with a retail/oem license, like throwing it on 10 or more different PCs. But if you have a licensed retail version and can do whatever you want with it on your computer then what's the big deal?

I'm more worried about the fact that they didn't MENTION that it 'called home'...(but I've always thought it would do that someday anyway), and I'm more worried about the road MS is taking 'again' to not disclose exactly what it's programs are doing.

It takes 1 second to dl and install wga, and like 1 sec for it to determine if your XP is legal or not. Either way, I'm not doing anything wrong so it shouldn't affect me, or any other user that's conforming to the parameters of MS' licenses so...why be upset or worry, or hassled?

They DO mention that it calls home, its in the EULA, You agree to it when you install WGA

Well there's the fact they always seem to be releasing a new version when you go to Windows update, a lot of the files on their website require validation, and they possibly get a bit picky if you reinstall about 30 odd times (I've reinstalled XP so many times it's not real).

Plus some people probably harp after the good old days when you could buy Win98 and stick it on both your home PCs, even though you technically weren't meant to.

Sucks though. 500 people can use one PC and pay the same, but one person using two PCs has to pay double. Technology is moving backward in my opinion, the cost for having a laptop and a desktop when running windows on both hardly seems worth it.

for starters, such home call puts your uniquely identified computer on specific ip address at specific time. which makes it easy to prove that, e.g. some particular anti-war/ anti-government/ pro-weed/ etc. comment to a popular blog was posted from your workstation. or download. or upload. however, if you're not bothered by constant surveilance in general - you have nothing to worry about, then.

Ok, your not worried about WGA calling home, it's a very small step to have it call home with all your personal information, like credit card numbers. Now how would you like that, I don't think you would nor would I... and that's why all the fur is flying.

Well first of all....please think about what you're writing. If MS wanted your credit card numbers and all your personal info., I'm pretty damned sure they could have gotten it a long, long time ago. Second of all...WGA is not the only application that 'calls home', there are many applications that call in to servers to make sure they're updated, to put in error reports etc. MS may be underhanded, but they're not thieves and they CERTAINLY don't need anyones credit cards etc.

Second of all....if the U.S is the land of free speech, etc. etc. etc....then pinpointing who out there calls the President or someone else in Government an ahole shouldn't really matter now, should it? Only in communist countries should you have to worry about such things. If you want to get technical, ISPs don't need WGA to know who you are anyway, it's very very simple....if you're on cable then boom - your modem's mac address and your IP have you fingered right away. If you're on dsl or dial up, your user name/password ie: your account is matched to the ip at point of login and again you're fingered. Fact is, if your worried about saying something you shouldn't online, WGA nor even your OS has to play a factor in that.

So, yeah....I'm still not worried. Again, I would be more worried if I was doing something I shouldn't on the net'....but I'm not, so WGA just doesnt bother me. And it seems more and more like the people who are upset about it are people who are probably doing shady things, or rather maybe planning to.

Personally, I think WGA is fair enough. For years people have been continuously pirating XP and this has some chance to fix that. And yes, in life sometimes the good have to suffer for the bad. It's going to cost us 'legal users' exactly 2 or less seconds to validate our PCs, SO WHAT?

Windows XP OEM costs like 70 dollars now. Buy 2 or 3 copies for use on your home PCs....It so happens that MS doesnt allow 1 copy to be installed on more than a single machine unless it's corp/vol lic., but at least 3 copies cost less now that 1 retail version, so get em. Failing that - use Linux.

This discussion reminds me of the people who don't object to government searches and wirtaps because "I'm law abiding and they won't come after me..." A rule of human (and corporate) nature is that _it ALWAYS escalates_. Today, they're gathering your IP address and your musical taste; tomorrow they're reporting what documents you read and what you write. They turn over to the government, who makes political speech critical of the government illegal (it hapens every 50 years or so), and Bang! you're in jail.

Or better yet, MS monitors every application you use and decides you shouldn't be allowed to use non-MS software of any kind, so they disable your machine entirely.

The possibilities for abuse are numerous and real; and who's to stop MS from abusing their power over your computer?

Apparently, not you. You don't care.

Great post Fox. It is apperent that by them not being outright on alot of things. Bottom line,we bought the hardware,software, and we own it. The rest of our appliances do not "phone home", either should our computer.

Messing with idiots is so much fun, isn't it?

And Microsoft wonders why it was recently surveyed as being one of the most untrusted firms doing business today? Duh!

And where did you hear this?

Seems to me that MicroShaft would be better off fixing the multitude of problems with their products than with worrying so much about their money grubing. I used to be a MS defender way back when they concerned themselves with trying to create the best product they could. And they really did that for a while. Now it is all about the buck.

I use MEPIS and do everything I need to do. Even working from home. VPN, SSH, accessing our Solaris servers and even remotely control my work desktop from home with VNC. All for free.

Gotta admit that I really find WGA to be completely disappointing... have since the beginning. Their intentions are innocent enough... protect their business, and protect the user from no-talent tech theives that rob people of their money in exchange for illegal software. What I don't like is their method of enforcement. WGA spends more time limiting and interfering with our ability to get Microsoft Updates than it does to limit the offending pirates. It's distrustful of the customer base, and yes folks, you're hearing *me* say this-- it's enough to irritate me to no end. The fact that I deal with it at all is only because I need to get access to the things it brings with it. If they make it less intrusive and limiting, I will change my mind about it. Until they do, this happens to be one of the bone-headed decisions that gives me a lot of concern and annoyance.

I agree. Funnily enough I have two valid licenses for XP from the two PCs I've bought since 2003, but I don't even use them. I got so sick of activation and WGA stuff every time I wanted to reinstall, etc, I just ended up using XP Corp...

But now with all this I'm tempted, not to go back to my original licenses but, to use another OS entirely. I understand them wanting to protect profits, but it's really irritating how far people go these days.

How I loved Windows 98, I typed in a serial code and I was done. None of this crap.

Everybody should be concerned about this - not only you.

Now it's beginning - mark my words: "beginning" - to show up what most of the people have denied and denoted as "paranoid", "phantasy" and "mentally ill". Yes, there will be a time when literally every single move you make will not only be monitored but also allowed or disallowed.

"TCPA" is just one basis on which this is prepared - there is, at the same time and sponsored by governments with millions in research (at least from what I know in Europe), the other platform, of which I sadly forgot the abbreviation, but which can be described as a tech platform wherein the user will not have but a monitor, a mouse, a keyboard and an internet access and wherein the user will order the type of program he wants to use (like a word processor)and all his files will not be stored on any local harddisk but on some server, of which the user will not know where that is located - and so on. I think the term must be something with "Distributed Computing" or something like that.

It's an obvious and logical next step: nobody will have any pirated software, because nobody will have any software at all, but that one program which will bring him to an access point. They will be able to control everything: access points, used hardware, used software, will be able to control every step the user takes. And in that way there will be no piracy, no hassle and stuff - but also no freedom whatsoever.

All this - a bit ridiculous in respect to their aim - is just a shy beginning. I think in ten years, if so long, nobody will laugh about these thoughts any more.

lol

i have xp licences for my personal pc's too, but don't use them cause it's a pain
if MS only knew how many people run pirated versions AND own licences

I bought a new notebook computer a couple of months ago...with Windows XP installed. Didn't register it...didn't even let it run the first time. I merely inserted my SUSE Linux disk in the drive at boot, wiped the Windows off the system and installed Linux. Tossed the MS software disks in a file cabinet and forgot them. The notebook happily matches my three desktop systems and runs wireless very well. Sorry, Microsoft....I had to pay for you in the sale price, but I don't have to use you.

By Babylon2x edited Jun 9, 2006 - 11:26 AM

"I agree. Funnily enough I have two valid licenses for XP from the two PCs I've bought since 2003, but I don't even use them. I got so sick of activation and WGA stuff every time I wanted to reinstall, etc, I just ended up using XP Corp..."

That gets old after the years go by. I have done the same thing since 2003. They can come and get my now junk $300.00+ copy of Windows XP Pro in the blue retail factory box and it's useless product key.

Such stupidity discourages us from buying new bigger hard drives or upgrading our systems. Idiots just didn't consider that they could stop some of those pirates, by keeping the original registration on their website and deny access, if somebody else tries to re-register with the same product key again under a different name.

Forget it, they would rather ph*** over their paying retail/oem customers and cut too much slack for multi-million dollar corporations. You'd think that installing that corporate VLK software would be even harder; because they are talking abouts hundreds of machines and thousands of dollars in license fees in some cases...

Just imagine how more $hi+ you'll deal with when it's time for VISTA???

Well guess what? Microsoft has just pushed me that extra push I needed to go strictly Linux. I was waiting on a couple more programs that I use alot in windows to show up for Linux. But screw Gates, I have now switched totally. Bet there will be alotta other people who do the same.

I hope you all realize that there is a better alternative to being spied on everyday. All I ask of people is that they give OSX a try. Apple is not concerned with invading your privacy like MS does. Apple doesn't even require a serial number to install OSX! Just give it a try, You'll never go back!

LMAO!

You do realize they don't need serial numbers, because there's nothing to pirate it to... right? I mean, you buy a Mac, you get the OS. You buy a new copy of MacOS, and you get to put it on the Mac you own. It's not like you're going to install it on the 27 PC's at the office in addition to your desktop, laptop, and Xbox. If you own multiple Macs, then you've already paid a fortune for the hardware and the software, so they might as well be "OK" with you using it how you need.

Anyway, I've used OSX... extensively. And I'm sorry to report, I went back. I felt like a child using it. Shiney and pretty just doesn't do it for me when I need to actually get work done.

Sorry to hear that you could not understand OSX enough to use it.

I am also sorry that you dont know about OSX running on generic PCs

Have a nice life being WGA'd.

Ignorance at its finest.

Here's an idea... DUAL BOOT

Good old corporate edition from my last job is working sweet as nut :)

What some of you guys are talking about sounds like paladium, remebr when that was supposed to be coming in vista? I wonder if it still is? From what i remeber it can remove blacklisted files of your machine automatically with no intevention from the user.

just for kicks I installed a 3rd party app, a little noname company using a pirated reg code... well... xp didnt like that at alll... they sent my ip addy, my serial number and other info to not only redmond but to the noname company as well... so, ok, I am warned., I remove the software.. reboot and o.O they send the same info out again. Hey... I was a good buy, I learned my lesson and removed the software I installed to eval it. you wont let me eval it free so I removed it now go away.,.... but they arent... so whether or not I still have the software oinb the system, every reboot ms is telling others my info.. VERY UNCOOL

The situation you described is ridiculous, and wont happen. If this really did happen, please, show me a log of the ip addresses the info got sent to, a packet capture save, and the name of this "3rd party app"

You're full of it... I'd love to see the packet scans that clearly document all the information you claim they're sending out. I think you need to spend more time reading the article before posting jibberish.

before you and the other poster open your mouth and insert your foot further in I think YOU and the other should investigate rather than base your bs postings on what you "hear" install swiftdog's pcheal, go get the serial off astalavista and try to use it and see what happens. I back my posts with proof not empty air like you both are full of.

whatever man...

If WGA locks u out u can always use autoupdate...

You think Windows XP is bad with WGA? wait till you see Windows Vista and Office 2007 with MICROSOFT Update and OneCare Live!!! They call home every hour or so... I Doubt that will change... Try blocking all the Microsoft IPs sometime and see what happens. Your computer basically dies... All thanks to WGA, Activation, DRM, and so called optional Customer Experience programs...

Oh and I forgot if you get a legitimate copy and manually go in and disable all the call home functionality your a pirate as far as they are concerned. So much for the 4th amendment folks!!!

Its worth a quote:

Constitution of the United States of America AMENDMENT IV.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath, or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be search, and the persons or things to be seized.

sadly that only applies to things you own, if you read the documentation, you dont own windows on your machine, just the rights to use it.

3. RESERVATION OF RIGHTS AND OWNERSHIP. Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this EULA. The Software is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the Software.
The Software is licensed, not sold.

read the last line there.

I am always amused by the people who feel their constitutional rights have been violated without any understanding of what those rights are there to protect.

The constitution is designed to protect you from abusive government control that was present in the days of dictatorships, monarchies, and empires... not from a corporation or other business entity and its employees trying to fulfill their inherent rights to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness... the happiness of a profitable enterprise-- not the overall mood you have on a daily basis.

Before you quote something, please try to make sure you understand what it is saying first. :)

Okay, so I don't have a source more reliable than this, but regardless I believe it is in the law somewhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...nfringement_of_software

"Reselling the original software. Licenses often say that the buyer does not buy the software but instead pays for the right to use the software. In the US, the first-sale doctrine, Softman v. Adobe [1] and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. ruled that software sales are purchases, not licenses, and resale, including unbundling, is lawful regardless of a contractual prohibition. The reasoning in Softman v. Adobe suggests that resale of student licensed versions, provided they are accurately described as such, is also not infringing."

Therefore every time I see this whole "you only have a license for the software, you have no bought it", I feel pretty pissed. Going on the above noted, surely they're just abusing the copyright law entirely and no-one is even noticing.

regardless, its the law, unfair or not. but i got that from the XP PRO EULA

Beware of wolves is sheeps clothing...

Microsoft, as usual, is testing how far it can push it's customers before major backlash. And with enthusiastic help of a** licking puppets, like the one we have in this forum, it could be pretty far.

screw you, you spyware infested animal.

Thanks for your brilliant insight! Very useful information you have there

So ms can shut down all pc by what they are telling us at any time they wont that is what bugs me just look at our government with a key stroke or two ms can shut them down

No, they cannot shut you down, learn to read. They can shut down the WGA software in case of a swarm of false positives

"No, they cannot shut you down"

you don't think so?
what's to stop them in the future?
one step leads to another
wait till they monitor the software going into your machine

but, to the point
i really don't like the idea of MS monitoring my IP, and keeping a leash on their OS
just cause i agree to use their software, doesn't mean i agree to let them change files in my computer

Again, does the software do it currently? No, will it ever? probably not because they would experience a much unneeded backlash. MS isnt monitoring your ip for anything, that is just the piece of information they get from WGA because in order to connect to WGA, you must use TCP/IP and ms makes records of where its coming from. If it detects multiple reports of invalid keys from an ip (possibly business, since some business proxy out one or two ips), it can shut down the wga software in your pc to allow you to update until the issue is resolved. No shutting down your pc for using an illegal key, no shutting it down period. The paranoid, as usual, have come out full force on this one and are making a bigger deal out of this than need be.

By the way, if you select "I agree" on the license screen, then you DO agree to let them change your system files. If you dont like it, dont agree to it. By the way, what leash are they keeping? The only "leash" i see is on the wga software and a way to disable it in case an issue arises.

My point, if you choose I AGREE, then you have no right to complain about anything since you agreed to it.

Personally I think there are backdoors that we don't know about. The software is closed source and there could be tons of stuff written into the code that we don't know about.

I would bet that if Microsoft wanted to or needed to they could get right into your computer. I don't trust them, but then again I don't trust many people at all.

So click disagree, and take your pc to the stone age?

The problem with those agreements is you have no choice.

If you did you would habe another OS.

There are various other ways to get the patches, to include autopatcherxp, its not very difficult. You make it sound like microsoft's way is the ONLY WAY.

again, you do not own windows on your pc, you are only licensed to use it, therefor ms can do as they wish regarding it.

ummmm,
no,
no they can't

they still have to follow protocol regarding local law
they can't do "as they wish", although they sure try!

owning the copyright and licence to software does not make you god over all who lay eyes on it

MS GOES TOO FAR !!!

" you do not own windows on your pc "

no, but i own my pc

MS has no right to modify any files contained on it without my express permission. whether they believe i'm pirating their sowtware or not, they MUST prove it first in a court of law.

the idea of them calling home everyday from my computer without my control is bordering on illegal

Everything on the Internet tracks/monitors your IP address... primarily because that's how the whole TCP/*IP* protocol works... it's kind of a requirement. Without the IP, TCP doesn't really do much.

Well, fortunately this is one of the few times where I can be comfortable with saying that I'm going to "stick it to 'The Man'!" :)

What, exactly, do you think owning the copyright and license to software does make a company? Obviously not a god, because you said so yourself, but it makes them SOMETHING, surely. Demi-god? Angel? Ascended Being? Monk? Preist?

Ha, yeah... Bill Gates announces today that he is stepping down from his Chief Software Architect position and transitioning to the role of Preist of Software Design.

I'm not going to dispute that I disapprove of WGA too, but making some insane rant against them by saying THEY GO TOO FAR is not much different than crying from the back seat of a car, "DAD! HE'S TOUCHING ME! HE'S ON MY SIDE OF THE CAR! OWWW! STOP HITTING ME!" when the truth is you were making faces at them and making irritating noises to drive them nuts.

It's one thing to disapprove of it... but ranting unintelligently doesn't help. You need a stronger argument than just claiming something went TOO FAR.

And if your only reason for saying that is that they submit your IP address and a YES/NO for the question "Is it legal?", then you really need to learn how the whole TCP/IP protocol that governs the internet works. Everytime you visit a site your IP and information about your computer is logged. Mostly it's benign and harmless... but advertisers right here on BetaNews like Google and SmartTargeting both log your IP and store cookies on your computer to count the number of visits to their ads... why? So BetaNews can continue to operate for free instead of charging memberships.

On second thought, maybe you should declare that BetaNews has gone too far by tracking you and cease all use of the website until they stop.

I don't particularly like people... because evidence surrounds me that most people are, as Carlos Mencia calls them, "Deeduhdees". I do however, trust them. The one consistent thing about people is that they're either almost always intelligent or almost always stupid... makes it very easy to figure out who to trust. :)

you must have really liked that statement:

MS GOES TOO FAR !!!

they are not just "protecting their investment" anymore.
why does their program need to "call home" everyday?
i don't need big brother (MS) helping me to make sure i'm running legit software
just because they can't keep people from pirating their software, doesn't allow them to investigate software on my computer to check if it's legal (even their own)
it's not their job
it's up to local authorities to investigate
that's why we elect LAW ENFORCEMENT to protect us and our rights, as both citizens and business owners

and i'll say it again:

MS GOES TOO FAR !!!

they are NOT the software policing force, they don't have the right to enforce ANYTHING. or to effect anything i may or may not own that resides on my property.
let them call the police if they think i'm breaking the law.

just because someone sells you something with terms of use, doesn't mean they can enforce them, that's up to the law.

terms of use are not law.

i can create a product and make the terms of use anything i want, doesn't make you legally bound to them, just cause you bought the product. i would have to take you to court and prove you did harm to my company.

"i can create a product and make the terms of use anything i want, doesn't make you legally bound to them, just cause you bought the product."

Do you realize you just contradicted yourself? Terms of Use define the terms... of... use. In other words, if you use this product, you've agreed to the legally-binding terms that are preconditions to said usage. Using the software implies you've accepted the terms.

Licenses, privacy policies, acceptable use policies, terms of use, etc. are all legally-binding documents. Educate yourself.

And before you go off on a rant against me, I use Debian. =P

heh

Welcome to Microshaft, how may we steal your idendity?

Terms of Use, any license don't allow the producer/manufacturer/seller to become a new FBI,CIA,NSA, police of any kind.

If we were in a dictatorship and Bill Gates was the ruler of the world as he dreams to be, then yes. But thanks to democracy Gates can't be the new Hitler.

Terms of use are not a legally binding contract
where did you hear such a thing?
the terms of use usually involve some instruction as to what is legal and illegal with their product, but in no way are you legally required to follow them to the "t", unless there is a law stating otherwise(ie: copyrights, and trademarks)
they are more of a guideline to cover the manufacturers butt, and to instruct you on what they consider proper use of their product or services.

so,
some but not all of the Terms of Use are legally binding to you

No, but a End User License Agreement, is a legally binding agreement, which is where i got all those quotes from, ther xp home eula, so yes microsoft has the ability to alter your files or tell you what you can or cannot do on your system.

no, they can't, they still have to PROVE they are their files to change,
i have to let them change files on my computer
to do otherwise would violate my property and my rights

The file is in the system32 directory and the filename is WgaTray.exe. Either rename it to something else - perhaps WgaTray.bak? Or block WgaTray.exe in Zonealarm, etc.

Um... dude. that's just the notification to tell you when updates are available.

Its a service that is running, not some simple little program.

And, whenever you do a windows update, it RUNS each and EVERY time anyway! As soon as you attach to MS update servers, BAM! they got what they need, to prove you are running genuine software, and so that every computer is unique and indentified separate from other machines (hello?!?!?!) they differentiate via IP address!! Duh!

The IP address is how they can tell you are running a licensed copy and know that your machine is different from mine!

In my mind, this is similar to Intel putting serial numbers in processors a few years ago. I simply uninstalled Windows XP Firewall and installed Zone Alarm and blocked the Windows Genuine from communicating with Microsoft. I believe it is a privacy issue and everyone should be up in arms on this one. It is just a matter of time before Microsoft starts shutting down machines remotely. I believe Microsoft is moving to an annual licensing fee and you either pay or you don't play. I believe that I read reciently they are test marketing it overseas now. Gotta keeps those bucks coming in boys and girls.

You believe wrong. Microsoft will not charge a yearly fee for updates, why? because it would kill them off and they would lose several of their customers. You keep saying you believe, well, I do suggest you check where you BELIEVE you saw these facts, and check again, because you are wrong. If them having your IP, which every website you visit (including ad servers included in said pages) has, is as serious of a privacy issue you claim it is, i suggest you unplug your network cable because you obviously dont understand how the internet works. There are easier ways of obtaining your IP. Microsoft cannot do anything with an IP address, its like you giving them your street number, they wont know anything without the rest of the information.

Up in arms? Yes... I think it's a lousy policy and needs to be rethought.

However, you're way off-base in where you think they're headed. Shutting down machines remotely? No way... I'd say there's extremely remote chance of that (hardly worth mentioning). They'd lose too many customers, and therefore money, and on top of that they wouldn't go out of their way to offer illegit customers a method of becoming "legal".

As for annual licensing... people have been saying this since the 90's, and yet it never happens. They've considered the idea and find it impractical. This is why the whole "Office on the Web" concept never came to be. Windows Live is the closest I think we'll get to it, and it's nothing more than add-on extensions to Windows that make it more Internet connected... and much if not all of it is free.

"The IP address is how they can tell you are running a licensed copy and know that your machine is different from mine!"

Except that dial up uses a different IP every time you get on line. DSL will change your IP after an interruption of service and then rebooting and reconnecting again. Using the IP to identify thieves isn't fool proof either...

"We can argue about whether or not the tool's behavior is really spyware"
Um, it sends my IP to microsoft. Is that not the definition of spyware...info being sent to someone with out the pc owner knowing it is happening?

Your ip gets sent to various websites and other servers without your consent every time you visit a website with ads on it. You authorize the web server (www.betanews.com) to receive your ip since you type in the address into your address bar, but you dont authorize it be sent to the variouos ad servers being run. Are you really worried that microsoft has your ip when you give it out many many more times a day? If it were your product key, or your personal information, yes, then I would agree, that is wrong, but an IP is hardly something I consider worthy of worrying about.Also, MS clearly is putting this into the EULA for this update, and you agree to it by using windows update (and the first time you installed WGA), so its not like microsoft is hiding it.

Methshrine is exactly right. When you visit BetaNews.com, do you automatically approve that Google and SmartTargeting get permission to track you for advertising?

Do you know it's happening? Well, I don't know a lot of things in life but that doesn't mean much of anything except that I am not tuned into those things.

Who's analysed the packets it sends? Are you sure the IP address is all it sends?

That seems kind of pointless in itself, without other information to tie it to.

We don't need to analyze the packets.

This came up years ago when some idiotic moron said they could "investigate every piece of software on your machine".. and send to whom?

Even if I could compile a list of software on your box, tell me what good would it do? NOTHING. What information can get gathered knowing that you have Office, XP, Corporate software titles, and a host of other software running..

Then bundle it in a packet and send it across the internet.. to what machine?!?!? And what is that going to do? That and 5 bucks can get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.. so what?

If they said it was sending home, and they said it was sending the IP address, don't you think they would have noticed OTHER traffic included?

Think about what you are asking.. Its not even relevant. Data, or information, gathered from millions of machines.. who is going to compile this info, and for what purpose? That's just rediculous to the point of stupid. you can't do anything with that info. Nada, zip, nil..

So quit worrying about it.. for one thing, it's not sending it in the FIRST place.

Ah...but if all it were doing was 'sending an ip address' HOW would they be able to determine if the OS was legitimate or not?

Seems to me that they would have to do a system scan (which, they most likely, do!)That idea I don't like.

To know whether the os was 'legitimate' or not, they would have to SCAN the system. They can't possibly know that just by receiving an IP address...

Anybody here giving them permission to do that?

No, you are confusing email with worms. You are running MS software. You are updating your software with MS. MS has a right to know if your software is genuine, so you don't run software and get updates, with illegal software.

Its not spyware, its not emailing you, its not killing your machine with processes, it isn't even broadcasting to the world (that's spyware) its *ONLY* reporting back to the mother ship, Microsoft. They aren't selling your info, they tie the IP address to machine, with a code, that identifies that its genuine.

Your vehicle has a VIN. Take it to the dealership, they do a diagnostic. Guess what, they send that info to EVERY other dealer so when you try to get warranty work, they KNOW what the last reported mileage was!

Go to Walmart, write a check, they report to a credit burea, to insure you aren't writing bad checks! ITs the same damn principle! How do you get from "checking for genuinue software, that you bought and paid for (supposedly) to Microsoft is infiltraiting with spyware"? I would like to know how you randomly went from 1 to 100 without passing 2 through 99?

This is a simple check. That's ALL

Quit making a mountain out of a mole hill.

dude, there is a code you entered when you installed the software, remember that? That's called the CD Key? That set of 4 numbers and letters you enter. The OS has built in validation that can recognize if its bogus or not.

Games, do this, other software companies do this, everyone just about does this same thing.. its called a KEY.

The IP address is to further validate that you are using 1 code from one location, and not using code from another location because the IP address is unique.. If for some reason your code was used across the globe, that wouldn't even raise a flag. It's still genuine software. Their software has certain identifying marks, those marks wouldn't know the correct "flags" to report, by this utliity, which is downloaded from Microsoft at the time of a windows update, to insure your software checks out.

Why are you trying to infuse some spying that doesn't exist..

They aren't doing a system scan. Its in the registry. There is a key in HKLM, the key is kept there, the program validates that the code on your software, is correct. Then your OS is running.. some memory register stores information pertinent to your RUNNING software, which indentifies that the OS is valid.

Its not this difficult. Its not scanning for office, or even other ms products.. actuallly they could.. one stop shoppping for ALL valid codes.. but an IP address tied to an update, that YOU are requesting, isn't too much to ask.

Again, if you AREN'T running illegal software, what difference does it make? You shouldn't have anything to worry about?

Did you download your software illegally?

EXACTLY!

People, you AGREE to the terms AND conditions of the software AND its use...

EULA. People never read.

Are you serious ? If yes then you must work for Microsoft so being one of their employees it's obvious that you are trying to defend their infamous actions desperately as usual.

The only truth is that Microsoft is a scam and the DoJ should have ordered its split long time ago. Telco Companies much bigger than Microsoft were split in the past and it's a shame that Microsoft keeps getting bigger and bigger with proved barely-legal, actually worse than that, actions.

Let me guess, you're under 25 years of age?

Oh no, something your computer is communicating with over TCPIP knowing your ip address, the horror. What next, people sending you email knowing your email address.

And to your responders, IP addresses are unique, but not to specific machine necessarily, those are MAC addresses...and even those can be spoofed. If WGA treated IP addresses as identifying information then dialup users would never be able to use XP.

WGA can check your softwares validity without ever sending any but a request to MS. "Gimme a list of keys and the motherboards they are registered to". Ok, now the WGA tool goes, "is this machine on the list"? And performs the appropriate action, still not needing to send anything more identifying than IP address to MS.

"Telco Companies much bigger than Microsoft were split in the past and it's a shame that Microsoft keeps getting bigger and bigger"

LOL!! So becoming a big company is illegal...soon as you get to a certain size the government needs to step in and split you up? That's hilarious.

lol
I love reading rijp's posts. They are so proMS thus lack of an objective word. Let me remind you of the same company doing something similar in the past, around 11 years ago: Win95 would transmit the info of your PC, included the software packages installed in it(coming from the HKLM hive)... do you remember the end of that story? :)

Yes, it's a privacy issue if you get additional info from any other that I entitled you to get. And if you think that getting that info about my PC contents is not important, and so for millions of PCs it's still not an issue, then let me tell you about some nice land in south Florida... you are that kind of person who will love it! :)

Ha-ha!

My car doesn't send a VIN to criminal police every time when I turn a key to start its engine. But Microsoft does it!

And if you travel with a laptop????

--->The IP address is to further validate that you are using 1 code from one location, and not using code from another location because the IP address is unique.

no it doesnt, but the car is also something you own, windows, like it or not, isnt something you own. you use it, but as far as the law is concerned microsoft can do do what they want with it, including *gasp* "TERMINATION. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may terminate this EULA if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of this EULA. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the Software and all of its component parts."

Actually when you installed the software you agreed to allow them to do that.

1.1 Installation and use. You may install, use, access, display and run one copy of the Software on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other device ("Workstation Computer"). The Software may not be used by more than one processor at any one time on any single Workstation Computer.

6. CONSENT TO USE OF DATA. You agree that Microsoft and its affiliates may collect and use technical information gathered as part of the product support services provided to you, if any, related to the Software. Microsoft may use this information solely to improve our products or to provide customized services or technologies to you and will not disclose this information in a form that personally identifies you.

8. ADDITIONAL SOFTWARE/SERVICES. This EULA applies to updates, supplements, add-on components, or Internet-based services components, of the Software that Microsoft may provide to you or make available to you after the date you obtain your initial copy of the Software, unless we provide other terms along with the update, supplement, add-on component, or Internet-based services component. Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue any Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Software.

9. UPGRADES. To use Software identified as an upgrade, you must first be licensed for the software identified by Microsoft as eligible for the upgrade. After upgrading, you may no longer use the software that formed the basis for your upgrade eligibility.

ah but microsoft has the rights to collect whatever info they want, after all it is their software, not yours.

2.3 Internet-Based Services Components. The Software contains components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Software and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Software that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation Computer.

3. RESERVATION OF RIGHTS AND OWNERSHIP. Microsoft reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this EULA. The Software is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the Software. The Software is licensed, not sold.

No, but if you get pulled over for a stop they will check the VIN, and that is how they identify stolen cars. Same principal, its just that with your vehicle it does not happen every time you take it somewhere.

I don't see what the problem is here. If you aren't pirating their software you have nothing to be upset about? They aren't selling it or doing anything with it other than creating a key to look you up when you want to get updates. How else would they do it? I'm sure they are open to any good ideas for combating piracy...

And again, as you just posted, they list what they are collecting. Versions of your software (Files) so that they can update you. And you also allow them to install FIXES/UPDATES (GASP). Wow, that does sound horrible! How dare they know what version of a file you have so they can upgrade it!

Gawd, you are one of the stupidest people I have ever been cuersed with yOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU SHOUGLD HAVE YOUR COMPUTERS TAKEN FOR WELLOVER 5 YEARS!!!

A split up is necessary in monopoly conditions like Microsoft. The DoJ Vs Microsoft trial made clear how many illegal actions Microsoft did against competitors. Any other Company would have been persecuted, split up and fined.

"No, but if you get pulled over for a stop they will check the VIN"

no they don't

they still have to take you to court to get it done!

they cannot take action without proving cause!

"but the car is also something you own, windows, like it or not, isnt something you own"

people keep repeating this
I OWN MY COMPUTER!
microsoft cannot make changes on MY COMPUTER without my say-so.
even if they THINK i might be running a pirated version of their OS.
they have to PROVE it first.
anything they do to my computer without my knowledge or say-so would be considered spyware and an intrusion on my privacy.
including checking what they consider to be their own software.

ah but they arent changing your computer, they are only changing your software on your computer, and obviously if they are changing your system via wga without going to court then they can do it now cant they? if they havent been sued for it they it is obviously legal, until someone disputes it in court.

right never said they couldnt, never said i cared that they do.

gee, i know people who haven't been sued for d/l copyrighted music yet (also countries that don't have laws for such)
does that mean it's legal for them?

Um some questions:
If a person does not have internet how will this affect him? Will it be like with Half Life 2 where u will need internet to install?

secondly, if i were to be running a pirated version right now, what would microsoft do? turn off my pc?
"It says the "call home" functionality was designed to enable the company to shut down the program in case of a problem, such as an influx of false positives."
please sum1 explain this doesnt make sense to me...

I admin hundreds of legit machines, and I won't install this. Why should I have to justify this on my network when I have proof already that I own and properly licensed these products?

Just push all your updates via WSUS.

No WGA. Problem solved.

Have ANY of your machines done a windows update recently or in the past 6 months? You see that "genuine advantage" check?

You are ALREADY running this, on your 100 machine network.. so you unknowingly installed it, before you even know what was happening.

ANOTHER prime example of mass hysteria generated by a harmless message at its best.

It didn't do anything THEN it won't do anything NOW.

Just don't worry about it.

the product is VERIFYING your product validity, EVERYTIME you check for updates.

Its no big deal. Our network is probably bigger than yours, since you keep referring to *YOU* being the ONLY admin at your company..

We have dozens.. so, if we don't have a problem, YOU shouldn't have a problem either.

I run WSUS, it's not offered as an install, it may never be, but I took all machines that normally would get patched with criticals automatically, out.

While I am not upset about this, it is a little concerning as it will generate lots of extra traffic on large coorporate networks. 200 pcs on 1 network = 200 pings however so often. It isn't a huge deal, but I agree with the Joe Wilcox guy (for a change) in that this could become a trend.

Yes, a simple check is no biggie--what will it be next, though? Will it require a 4KB index file to be sent back and forth? Then it may start transfering up to 1 MB of data "to further enhance user experience", and claim "none of this data is private and cannot be traced to your specific computer"? It can become a huge deal if left unchecked.

Again, currently it is no biggie. I'm only saying that we need to keep an eye on this to make sure Microsoft,and frankly any other software vendor, keep their word on this. 56K is becoming more scarce, but I can barely imagine the consequences of sending data back and forth all the time could have on those poor dial up users.

If you RTA, it says that reports are sent every day, but with a coming update, that will be pushed to every 90 days. Again, bandwidth is not an issue as the size of the data probably wont exceed 32KB (how much data could you need to send a disable command to the software?). I dont see this affecting network bandwidth all too much

I think you missed his point. It's not the amount; it's the acceptance of the trend.

Well, trace it. monitor traffic.. You won't see anything...

This isnt' giong to become a trend, don't let the hype get to you too! Please!

Dont' listen to those other people, its not going anywhere, MS is keeping piracy in check, that's all.

Its not like the NSA is requesting an IP check on EVERY computer in the USA..

Damn did I just type that for everyone to see?

Wow.. lets start some new paranoia now...

No YOU missed the point, its 1 authors idea that this could be a trend.

To the rest of the non-paranoid world, there are utilities like this running on your network, and the one genuine piece of software on your computer, you DON'T want to check?

Be real! AIM, Yahoo, MSN Messenger, not to mention, weather channel, google search, those toolbars, add-ins for outlook, I can list about 100 more programs that are ROGUE programs and you CHOOSE 1 MS program that's a part of the OS to disect? NO

Stop this craziness now. There is no trend, there is no ill will, this is simple MS checking, which has been there for years, its a newer version.

Other programs that run rampant on your network should be looked at WAAAY before this program is even a thought process.. Back up, put the gun down, and just sip on some cocoa..

Everything will be fine.

i think you missed the point, its ms's software not yours, they can do it if they please.

While no data is exchanged with Microsoft, the company would know the end-user's IP address and the time they connected.

In other words, whether you pass or fail the check does *not* get transferred.

Sounds good to me. :)

Well if WGA were being told to re-run itself or notify you, then chances are you failed :)

Or re-installed your OS..

or ran it on a different PC on the same Gateway...

Or installed the latest-latest version of IE7 beta(n).

Plenty of reasons, nothing they could use to "Come after you."

Yeah, buts, ifs, ands..

When If's and butt's are candies and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas now wouldn't we?

Its not! Its exactly as advertised.

Hmmm.... yeah, but...

I wonder: if that's all the information that's being collected, why bother calling home at all?

People said the info they might collect are useless so its not a privacy issue.
How about someone knew all the phone numbers you have dialed in the past year? I can't really think of a use for that... but still you have a right to keep it private. All this is hypothetical talk to keep them from eventually doing real evil little by little.

ah but you own your phone dont you? but do you own windows?

Last time I checked I didn't own my phone line, just the phone itself.

Updates, to allow a disable key to be sent (to disable WGA if a major problem is found)...

You're pretty creative. I'm sure you could come up with a few.

I'm old enough to remember when they owned everything and fixed all of the wiring. Telephones were made exclusively by Bell Laboratories and none of these cheap imports even existed. It all changed after the 1984 break up.

The line from the pole to the outdoor switchbox belongs to your Telco. You own your phones and the house wiring. You can pay them to fix it, or hire an independent contractor. We re-wired our phones and DSL computer network ourselves last year...