This is an exerpt from...

http://netsecurity.about...xp/qt/aaqtwinxp0829.htm

Users who reformat their hard drive and perform a clean installation of the operating system will find that they need to reactivate the product. But, as long as the new installation is on the same system and there won't be any hardware changes it is possible to transfer the existing product activation and skip having to go through the product activation process again. Follow the steps below to save the activation status information and restore it once your system is rebuilt:

Double-click My Computer
Double-click on the "C" drive
Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder")
Find the files "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" and copy them to a safe location. You can copy them on a floppy drive or burn it onto a CD or DVD.
After you have reinstalled Windows XP on your reformatted hard drive, click "No" when asked if you want to go ahead and go through the activation process
Reboot your computer into SafeMode (you can either press F8 as Windows is booting up to see the Windows Advanced Options menu and select SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Minimal or follow the instructions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode
Double-click My Computer
Double-click on the "C" drive
Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder")
Find the file "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" (if it exists) and rename them to "wpadbl.new" and "wpabak.new"
Copy your original "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" files from your floppy disk, CD or DVD into the C:\Windows\System32 folder
Restart your system (if you followed the directions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode you may need to go back into MSCONFIG to turn off booting into SafeMode)

Voila! Your Windows XP operating system is now reinstalled on your reformatted hard drive and you are all activated without having to actually go through the product activation process!

First time I seen XP run... my first thought was Oh My God - It's Fisher Price! XP Home has to be one of the worst O/S's I've ever had the pleasure of messing with, if you want a good solid foundation on your computer use Windows 2000 Pro or 2000 Server.

Oh get off it all of you!!

There is no such thing as perfect software or bug free software, etc.

Microsoft has every right to protect its property. You don't like that then dont use it.

Likewise if you dont like *nix or mac os or whatever dont use that either.

bah it will work well for a while but what will stop some lil german,russian,latin american kids frm cracking it and releaseing ther lil product over the net few months? weeks? days? we dont know but i dont care i dont use windows a lot just fer a bit o counter strikin when at me bros house but good job 2
ye O beast of redmond ..im happy with my Slackware and my SuSe...hey now..i got Gmail invites tell me where ya saw me postin mrfrostbite@gmail.com

see sometimes it good 2 read even though ye think thier stupid

I see a great amount of debate on the ethics of using software, but do not see any comments on what appears to be Microsoft's end-game. I read the other day Microsoft's End-Of-Life cycle for Windows XP is December 2006. This means that very shortly after the next version of Windows is released people will need to upgrade to have a supported product. Let's face it ... Windows XP is a very stable product and there will be very little reason for most people to upgrade unless they "forced" into it. The auto industry tried building low quality product a number of years ago so that people would have to upgrade. That did not work because of competition. I'm glad that Linux is around, because I won't be paying MS over $1,000 to upgrade like I did when Windows XP and Office XP was released. Buy a legal copy of Red Hat 9 one Bay for under $25 and enjoy!

I remember when Apple tried to set the "Hook" when the gave schools free computers, and they did not gain the market share as GenerationX matures are major buyers. OS X has been a poke in MS's side in the same way that linux is. Linux is not the cure all. Can you prove to me that in "open source" that there are no back doors?
I could not in good faith give a Dr.'s Office Linux because there is no accoutabilty for Security other than someone's word. You may respond "Buy a Distribution" but again the 2 words OPEN SOURCE appear. A known UNIX provider such as SUN is the only sorce of controled software. Have you priced Solaris lately? Windows is sucha dheahl! IBM takes the position that "Is any OS Secure??" when questioned about Linux.

I think that MS could improve on the security issues if it had the money lost from piracy on all OS's. As far as 2006 being the end of XP support I am a beta tester and have contacts deep within MS and cannot confirm this and actually had a few responce "What?" in a laughing voice.

People were saying that MS would loose customers when the current method was introduced. How can you be so profitable loosing customers?
The jealousy goes on!

Remember MS supports previous of office so the $1000 retrofit in not nessessary unless you want the latest Bells and Whistles. I have a few clients still using NT4 Server internally, no internet,if it is not broke don't fix it!

and remember, you don't have to upgrade office and windows and the same time. office XP mainstream support (aka, "help! something's wrong" support) ends in the middle of 2006. but extended support which includes free security updates end in 2011. 2011!!!, can you believe that!

windows xp mainstream support ends 2006, so if you break it after that they're not going to help you unless you pay. but once again, the extended support ends in 2011. and actually these dates are the minimum. the support site says that mainstream will end 2 years after the next version ships, and extended will be 5 years after that.

I would like to know what a few of the people on here are doing that they have to reinstall windows 3,4,5 times a year that system restore can't fix?

i can addmit i'm no tech head i just know a little above the basics and i can even keep my system running smoothly even though i play with settings and try alpha and beta software and the only time ive had to reinstall is when i atempted dual booting xp and mandrake linux(BIG MISTAKE IF YOU'RE NOT A TECH HEAD LOL)

"Big Brother"

(And, this is the last MS OS system I *ever* buy, although every bit of my MS software has *always* been entirely legal.)

Date posted: 1984

Linux is quite new still but already we see it taking over in some areas ie, web servers, Base of MacOS X. Linux has some very good ideas and tech, the portage system for gentoo, ppc support, Xbox support...(and so on) And as for ease of use, Linspire! linux does not come any easier to use than that.My main system runs Gentoo and I have never had to re-install it even after 1 year. Yea it was a pain to set up, but now it works like a treat. I even have Gentoo on my Xbox - with little work and no big problems.

haven't had to reinstall gentoo in over a year? am I supposed to be floored by that comment or something?

I've had winXP running on this system for over 3 years and I haven't had to reinstall...I think the only two parts of the system that haven't changed in three years are the motherboard and hard drive...

Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy!...Could your company?

Activation has errored on the side of the user in the past!

You have to have 3 major hardware changes to require re-activation, ie:CPU, Motherboard,Hard drive, and Video card are the Major Offenders. Go to Technet, the facts are there!

If you re-install and Change no hardware the activation is seamless, just activate. IT MUST BE EXACTLY THE SAME HARDWARE IN THE SAME SLOTS!! Microsoft does keep a record of the hardware hash and installation key.

Microsoft will be verifying thru Windows Update that the hash/key combo is the same as the one registered, if not there is a possability in WU version 6 your machine will be deactivated, at least that is the word in the beta testers arena.
Microsoft is now contacting previous WU Beta tester for V6 via email and questionairs so if you have pirated software think twice!

Microsoft is only protecting it's investments such as any department store does when you walk thru it's E-Tag protector...Illegal search? You still go in though.

In 1976 IBM, DEC and DG started the intelectual protection legislation to protect their assets from other companies STEALING the investments. It is very sad we now have to do this on a indivual level. A THIEF is always a THIEF.
Webster's Definition:
Main Entry: thief
Pronunciation: 'thEf
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural thieves /'thEvz/
Etymology: Middle English theef, from Old English thEof; akin to Old High German diob thief
: one that steals especially stealthily or secretly; also : one who commits theft or larceny

BTW, I am not a Microsoft Employee or rep, just a ETHICAL bussinessman that support what has to be done in TODAYS society to SURVIVE.

I have seen many articles concerning Microsoft's new policy concerning XP OEM keys. However, I have yet to see a clear statement concerning so-called "FULL OEM" keys. I did not buy my machine from a major system builder, or any system builder, for that matter.

My brother built my machine from the case up, and purchased a "FULL OEM" CD from a national computer parts supplier. This CD was manufactured by Microsoft, and was shrink-wrapped with the COA and the "Getting Started" booklet.

Will these "FULL OEM" keys be disallowed from Internet Activations? I really need a clear answer, as I reinstall my OS several times per year. I always install "clean", so I always have to reactivate the OS.

I would really appreciate a clear answer about this matter.

Donald McDaniel

I applaud your attempt to be ethical, especially while in Business, but Ethics is never that easy.
Suppose I buy a new computer from Dell or HP. Microsoft FORCES them to pre-install Windows. There is no way I can avoid paying for it (is that Ethical or just "business today"?). Yes, Dell will sell me the same PC with no OS, but it will actually cost me *more* because that makes it a 'special order' (I pay more for less, is that Ethical or just "business today"?).
Now suppose that I decide not to use that OS and I donate it anonymously to a charity. Will the Charity even be able to activate it? It will depend on whether or not they can convince someone at Microsoft to activate it (is that Ethical or just "business today"?).

At least you seem to know something about how the 'activation' process and "business today" work.
Let us suppose that a computer manufacturer, like Dell, has Inventory Control software. Then they could notify Microsoft of the machine serial number and all the activation information and associate it with a specific serial number or Windows. As a user of this new machine, I could re-activate it over the internet as often as I wish without a single problem and never have to speak to wait on hold.
What Microsoft claims as the reason for stopping the automatic activation is that when they sell a specific serial number of Windows that they do not realize that it is being installed on completely different hardware. This is *not* good business. It is especially bad for a company that writes Databases to claim that they are unable to track a serial number. This implies that Microsoft is not aware of even simple Inventory Control practices and probably should not be in business. What else have they 'lost'?
Since they cannot track what they do sell, how can they come up with numbers for what they do not sell? Sounds like Enron to me.
I challenge you that dealing with such a business may be unethical itself becasue you help to perpetuate the poor business practices that are probably the real reason behind this move and that have landed Microsoft in so many court cases (which they usually lose).

What you say is true, "Loss of Control" is the activation issue. Microsoft outsources most product activation and once that happens you loose the integreaty of internal audits, uploads beeing lost and all the other shortcomings of outsourceing. I am a "Subscriber" to MSDN. After a few issues I was fast to find out that this was outsourced itself. I personally despise outsourcing to relieve companies of liabilites that might result if they do it themself, not the fact that we are giving jobs away.

Actually, pre activation is against MS own agreement with the System Builder Program. Puting tools in such as audit mode to install drivers and other pre-bundled software enforces that posture.
The sad part is that MS optioned to allow big dollar sales , Dell, Gateway, Hp and other system intergrateror to circumvent the rules that should have applied to ALL system builders, and now we all pay. Maybe the ACLU should represent small/minority businesses in a class action tort . :-)
According to my contact a MS only the keys which are bulk OEM will require call in activation. Keys are encoded as to which version they are, Home or Pro Retail, upgrade, or standard OEM. Hope that helps.
Well I ran out of memory after that. In my head so I can't blame MS for that:-)))

A "FULL OEM" is suppose to be installed on a coumputer (built) or included with a built computer by the company providing the computer. These companies get a good deal from microsoft, that is suppose to be passed on to you for installation purposes. Some companies will sell these OEM versions at a big discout (see ebay). With this new policy on microsoft, I would think it will affect those version of XP also.

You know this is all fine and good however there still has been no work on stopping people from downloading a corporate iso of windows xp which requires no activation. I believe it is the only type of windows installation which still doesn't use microsoft's product activation. instead you just a corporate licences (i.e. cd key). the only downside to this that if you ever attempt to call microsoft for tech support and they ask you for the cd key they won't help you as they will identify it as a corporate key...but then again who ever uses their tech support anyways?

"Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy!...Could your company?"

If my company was Microsoft, yes, my company could "loose" 3 billion a year.

Every business on this planet loses money. It's called "shrink." Every business takes steps to reduce shrink, but they have to take the comfort level of their customers into consideration, or they end up losing more money than if they had done nothing.

For example: Any department store could cut shrink drastically by requiring every customer that walks in the door to sign a waiver stating that the store has the right to strip search them at any time. Why don't they do it? Because it's obvious nobody would shop there when the store across the street doesn't treat its customers like criminals. But what if this is the only department store within a hundred miles? That changes things.

Microsoft finds itself in an unusual position, where it needn't worry about customers' comfort levels quite as much as most other businesses. It's not technically a monopoly, but it IS something like it. We just don't have a word for it yet, because this is different than anything the free market has ever seen.

One company controls the standard platform upon which all software developers who wish to make money must base their software. Yes, other operating systems exist, but they are for nerds. Linux is for nerds. If you use Linux, it's either because you are a nerd, or it's because that's what your employer decided you should use in order to save him money. But most likely you're a nerd. ;-)

Once a true alternative to Windows exists, if ever, you'll see MS "loose" a lot more than 3 billion a year.

"Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy"

How do you define it as a loss? It's not costing them a dime if they weren't gonna buy it anyway.

You are spreading a lot of misinformation. Microsoft doesn't lose a penny, look at their bank accounts. Unless someone is stealing CD's they are not losing.

"bulk OEM will require call in activation"

Which will force OEM's to look at cheaper methods to get their PC's out the door. With this Microsoft would be opening a huge gaping hole for all the other OS vendors to play on.

Your source is wrong, or Microsoft is making a HUGE mistake.

Pick one.

call Linux users what ever you like. Linux is a TRUE alternative to Windows. What else is it? Give it time ... you'll be using it ...

Can the average user go to the store, pick up a Linux distro, install it himself and run every Windows program he owns?

Until we can answer "yes" to that question, and I hope someday we can, MS will rule the planet.

Oh, and also, a TRUE alternative to Windows will not distinguish between filenames based on case. That's just wrong, and you know it. ;-)

These big PC makers usually use bios XP activation and a user does not have to type in a code because it is in the bios. You can reinstall every day with a machine like that.

What this means though is they are making it inconvenient to ever upgrade the o/s in your system from its original spec. Nice way to kill the market for their own software.

I read a lot of comments of people wanting to reinstall Windows. Well, let me tell you something. Use a computer properly, and it WON'T stuff up. I've had XP for well over a year now, and even installed SP2, and I never have had to reinstall. What the hell are you guys doing to stuff it up?

Even my old Windows 98 Box I only had to reformat once after I used it for 5 years, plating games, sufting the web and stuff.

I have Anti-virus and Anti-spyware on both my new computer, as well as the old 98 box which my parents use everyday without problems. I have a firewall on both, and I've had no viruses, spyware, whatever.

If you know how to use a computer without it "Stuffing Up" as you call it, write a book, youll be a millionaire!! No matter what anti-virus or anti- spy software you use, if your on the net surfing, downloading, etc. your PC is going to get slower. If youve had XP for a year, your regular to the net, try reformating, I guarantee your PC will run faster afterwards.

Well, it boils down to 99% of computer users have NO, let me reiterate that, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NO idea WHAT-SO-EVER of how to keep their computer clean and secure.

And also, I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but there are things out there that

A) cause AV software to malfunction
B) root your box (aka rootkits)
C) backdoor everything else

All it takes is going to the wrong place at the wrong time and you're nailed. What's even more hilarious about this whole thing, many users get OVER paranoid about things. So they run 2 AV programs, 3 firewalls programs, and a whole host of other things that "their friend told them they should use" that actually compounds the issue and/or cancel each other out.

HackerDefender anyone?

OH, and a little pet peeve of mine. People who break into computers are called Crackers. Hackers are people who improve code to enhance performance, functionality, or whatever.

"Use a computer properly, and it WON'T stuff up."

Bull, you can't get more wrong. It doesn't matter what OS (though it's a little easier to fix on some than others) you can mess your computer up pretty bad with just a patch or service pack. Just because YOU got LUCKY and haven't had to deal with it, doesn't mean that the whole world is wrong. ;-) I did an XP install the other day that I had to completely do over because something was hosed with a driver and it no longer completed a boot. (fresh install) THEN I had a SUSE machine that decided that GNOME needed to take a dump after patching. It doesn't matter what OS it is, now and then something happens and you have to start over or at least spend so much time figuring out that it would have been FASTER to start over than to fix (and hope it's fixed).

Did your Parents set up everything for their computer or did someone else?
Thought so.
Does every person who buys a new Dell have someone around who can configure all the stuff needed to protect them from the flaws Microsoft left in their system?
I thought so too.

Hard drives do fail, or get upgraded to larger/faster ones once a digital camera is purchased, or get messed up accidentally by new users (or their children, or their children's friends).

It is nice to know that Microsoft has just decided to impose a cost increase on these people. If they decide to do the re-install themselves, they will have to make a call to Tech Support, then Microsoft, then back to Tech Support. This will increase the cost to the PC manufacturer for increased Tech Support (and therefore increase the cost to consumers) or increase the 'load' on knowlegable relative and friends, or increase the cost to the consumer directly when they take the computer in to BestBuy or call a local Tech for an on-site repair. It will take more time to install the OS, so the cost will go up.

I will admit that it only takes about 12 minutes to activate Office (during business hours), but I am pretty sure I can activate it at least twice over the Internet before I have to call. (My predecessor did not record which machine which serial number of Office was installed on, so I have called a few time.)

Anyone for re-calculating the TCO of Microsoft products?
Windows, the product that keeps on giving.

I agree, I've had to reinstall a few times, and with multiple drives I've even had two separate Windows XP OSes running on my machine; one for general use, games, etc., and the other for development. Last summer, though I was informed when I had to activate after installing new hardware that the installation I had reached the limit of allowable activations. I was kind of freaked out, needless to say. I called Microsoft and activated it over the phone, but it was still quite a nuisance. That was back in August 2004. Now, I figure if my computer gets so bogged down that I have to reinstall, I'm going to have to call Microsoft every time. They should expect that since their OS is almost 4 years old this is going to happen right? I feel they should reset their activation servers so that guys like me (who reinstall once a year or so) can still activate it over the Internet.

I worked for years at large corprations, who double bought COA & OEM Site for Windows. They would then have us peel off the COA and resell it to reclaim the "losss" from microsoft double charging them for the same product. Now, they would then resell them to small companies who could then offer a custom build with a COA for a reduced price to compete with the larger companies. This did not cost Microsoft anything, nor could a XP Coa be activated twice, this is a myth. This is simply a way for microsoft to "jack up" the cost of their products.

This is designed to force out small companies, and promote those who use Microsoft Site builds. Microsoft also has announced that it plans to "recharge" per year for your copy of the new version of NTFS.

As a result of this final straw, I have signed to begin promoting Novell Linux. This is a solid build, and will sell for a fraction of Windows and together with wine, or win4lin will support almost any windows app.

I guess it goes to show, the tighter you squeeze people, the more they decide to get away from you.
Perhaps Bill needs to go back to the carport and build few "Stolen PC's with Stolen OS (mac) (Quck and dirty operating system) , those of us who are old enough REMEMBER when he was the most famous Hacker and theif in the industry.

Lets do the ime warp again :)
Peace.
Cenedi

FireFox stole 25 million IEs users ... now the question is how much is M$ going to lose to Linux now ... I agree pirating is bad, but treating the legitimate owners like criminals is worse. It does not matter what M$ does, there will be away around it. M$ NEEDS to change their focus and start improving their customer relations skills, not worsening them. PLEASE everyone look into using Linux. It can do the same things a M$ PC can do, and more, more efficiently, and you do not need a PHD to do it! Take the plunge! You won’t regret it!

How do you figure that Firefox "stole" 25 million users from MS? 25 million is the number of people that simply downloaded Firefox. How do you know that half, if not more, of those people tried it, and threw it away like the trash that it is?

Just because someone downloads a program, doesn't mean they keep using it.

I sure hope you don't still use Internet Explorer.

Firefox is more than I could have ever wanted.

The plugin support alone is priceless. Not to mention the way it handles downloads, views nearly everything perfectly the first time (and more pages appear correctly than I ever had with IE), and that's just the beginning.

I can't believe I used IE for such a long time. Oh wait. I can. It was the only thing existant, minus Netsh*t navigator/communicator. What a crock of sh*t those programs were/are.

Get a clue -- if someone downloaded it, they were most likely interested. If they had the time to sit down and look at a few of the commands, they'd switch in a minute. I will never go back to a browser that doesn't have tabbed browsing.

ok ... so half downloaded and use it ... 25 million people, and it is actually 27 now, are looking for an alternative ...

It's trash? Please, elaborate.

I think of Win2K as being the "equilibrium release," if you will. They got pretty much everything down -- reliability, security, speed, etc. Windows ME was a major screwup (duh?), and Windows XP contains all these things that inconvenience you.

I've used Windows for 6 years and Linux for only one, and to the long list of the reasons to use Linux, I guess I can tack on "No need to activate... just install, config, install a few more packages, update, restore, and you're set to go."

And for you unlucky people stuck on Windows, I hope Micro$oft hires more people to station their activation center and call center for PR, because they just might have a lot of people blowing their stacks at them...

I recently re-installed an early version of XP Pro. One of those that did not requre activation, just installation and entry of the Activation Code that came with the software. While downloading Windows Updates (and there were dozens of them), I got a message telling me that my software MIGHT not be legitimate. "Might not be", I guess that even Microsoft does not know what is legal software and what is not!

Does anyone at Microsoft realize that much of the public believes they are a Software Company taht knows something about Computers?

What I cannot figure out is why Wall Street tolerates this. If most companies tried something like this, their stock would drop 30%.

First off, As someone who repairs computers for others, I'll be spending too much time on the phone with Microsoft. Last time I had to call them for an issue over authorization it took me an hour and 45 minutes to get through that mess. That's time I have to charge a customer for which basically will ad $75-100 (not including original repair costs) to the repair of their system because they got so ganked by malware that the system isn't even functional without a clean load.

Secondly, I custom build systems to client specifications. If this affects that aspect of my business, well, let's just say that Microsoft might find themselves not on quite a few new systems. I refuse to eat that time on a system that I'm only making $30-50 and that's hardware only profit, I actually lose money when labor is figured in, we build as a courtesy to our customers. It'll basically remove what little incentive I had in selling good SOLID hardware that the customer can take home and forget about with Microsoft products on it.

I'm a linux user and if they keep pushing, we might just very well become a linux only shop. I'm already quite....annoyed with their tactics and what they make me do for my customers. They are pushing entirely too far and it's becoming more intrusive than it should be.

I'm not saying Microsoft doesn't have the right to protect their intellectual property (I use that term loosely as they usually steal or buy what they have and have YET to be able to think of ANYTHING MS created first), but when it comes to how much they are forcing themselves into people's lives just to use a computer and software they rightfully purchased because MICROSOFT made mistakes in their implimentation of authorization software...that's just wrong.

Funny how they are constantly "updating" their activation tactics, but there are still people who are using counterfeited VLK (Volume Licensing Keys) to bypass activation all together and the Windows Advantage Program validation. So tell me what's the point because either way people there will always be a loop hole and a way around a certain system or set of laws in place. Microsoft never ceases to amaze me as to how they think they can set out to try to "stop" piracy all together. It will always be there and it will never go away. That's like trying to kill the entire species of rats and roaches. Sorry not in this lifetime.

Why does everyone reformat so much? I pound the heck out of my machine, install dozens of programs (to the point where I need to create subfolders in my start menu just to find things) and am a developer with legacy, current and beta copies of development software installed but I only find the need to reinstall every year or so. In fact, the last time I reinstalled was because I had the beta of SP2 running and I wanted a clean install when the final came out. Take a little care and you won't have to reinstall. XP is pretty hard to break and when it does, its pretty easy to fix. Get the MS spyware remover, it works great and is free. (If you don't trust MS for spyware cleaning, don't use them for an OS either.)

Ahhh developers.

First, MS AntiSpyware doesn't take care of everything. I know this for a fact from a client computer. Neither does MSAS with Ad-Aware, Spybot, McAffee's tool, etc. all installed on the same *&^% box.

*Most* users aren't going to have a setup like yours. *Most* users aren't going to be able to have a setup like yours because most don't even understand the concept of firewalls/anti-virus/anti-spyware, much less realize that they should have it on their computer.

That means rebuilds, and lots of em. Stealing is not good. Having to submit a blood sample every time you do something legitimate is not good either.

Still, you can activate off the shelf copies of Windows once or twice a year (I know, I've done it). If you're installing more often than that you've got a bigger problem. But this dovetails into another issue I have when I fix someone else's machine. OEMs usually don't give you the OS on a CD, they pack it into their own setup routine. This needs to change. I can't even do a simple repair from the CDs they give me because they all have their own "heath" meters and programs. You can't just run a simple Windows repair which is flat out wrong.

Some program that is not stable running or not fully support WinXP, even writen in windows core files. How can we clean that? In case, several years ago, I installed Easy CD creator that re-cover original CD-ROM driver caused CD-ROM error even if you unstall that so bad program. Due to this error is not easy find at once, when you found CD-ROM can't read or write, it maybe one year later.

Of course, I thinking it 's necessary to reinstall windows.

Re-activatin can be triggered by more than just re-formatting the drive.
Microsoft records several serial numbers, the CPU (yes, the CPU has an internal Serial Number, it is just turned 'off' by default and softwware can turn it back on), Hard Drive(s), Video Card(s) and possibly more (a developer might be able to tell us, it is probably documented somewhere). Windows not only wants to know that it has been activated, but wants to record which machine it was activated on. (Even Ghost may not work if you try to install the Ghost on a completely different set of hardware, I have not tested this.)
A co-worker and I were staying late one night testing various hardware set-ups, multiple video cards, multiple hard drives, different motherboards, etc. to find out which combination was teh fastest. More than once Windows XP told us we would have to re-activate over the Internet, but after a few four letter words, an ethernet connection and a few seconds delay we were back to testing.
I am not sure what combination did it, but I could imagine a situation where a dedicated built-it-yourself or gamer could end up calling Microsoft once a year or so.

To save time, you could buy a couple of extra activation codes. ;)
Which may be an indirect way to increase sales in a Flat market.

Is a new Activation Scheme "Innovation"?

A Monopoly cannot last forever.
I think that FINALLY we are watching Microsoft die. Attempting to increase revenue through 'fake' sales.

Just buy a mac. No product activation at all. Easier to use than winblows anyway. Saw some comments down-thread about having to re-install windows 5-6 times a year. Guess what? You *NEVER* need to reinstall OS X. Its like Linux that works.

GHOST, GHOST and more GHOST.

Get the PC and after setup GHOST the drive. Microsoft get over your bad self!

Read the last sentence of the article: "Even non-legit users ,however, will continue to receive critical updates to Windows." Hey, as long as anyone can get the critical updates, shouldn't that at least be enough to run Windows adequately?
However, I do like the idea of Ghost, Ghost, Ghost 'till the cows come home. Better stock up on h/drives!

That is becasue hardly anyone at all is using them and therefore they aren't of any real interest. :)

Windows does not just activate itself. It has to send a 'description' of the hardware that makes up your computer to Microsoft to get the activation key.
If you attempt to restore th Ghost on substantially different hardware, it may require activation again anyway.
I have seen situations where too many hardware changes caused Windows to need to re-activate over the internet.
Ghost may not work.
What if Microsoft starts to recors that a specific Windows serial number has already download SP1? If you restore the Ghost, you may not get the chance to download it again.

What I don't understand is that if Microsoft will allow even pirated copies of it's software to download 'critical' updates, what is the big deal?
How many of these 'updates' are really necessary and how many are "just for fun"?
Who decides which updates are 'critical'? Microsoft. (With Microsoft's***ory of secure products, THAT should scare you.)

If every system has a different set of updates, does that not increase the chance that any new update may cause the system to be less stable? Less secure? Easier to use as spam relays? Or to use to distribute Child Porn?

Thanks Microsoft.
Large corporations are usually their own worst enemies.

Is everyone here an idiot? Don't you understand that software producers have the same right as you and I to protect their products and sales of that product.

Why is it that so many people here complain about software protection - legitimate protection - but aren't more worried about how ignorant, selfish, "unscrupulous" resellers who are stealing.

I, for one, have no sympothy for people who are so apathetic and lazy that they can't support a simple software authentication method: a phone call!

Anyways, you obviously have not educated yourselves on the subject nor the industry.

READ A BOOK.

Have you actually ever had to call Microsoft?

It's not usually a pleasant experience.

Another reason to choose open source.

I had to call microsoft once to activate a student copy of Word on my sisters computer. this was on a weekend. after 20 - 30 minutes of waiting, a person got on the phone and told me that their activation system was not in service at this time. He said to call back monday. yeah, activation is easy.

Ok I already have to call Symantec everytime I reformat my machine just so I can get the virus definitions updates. Their product keys expire after 15 days of receiveing the software. Now I have to make another call to MS to activate the OS. So instead of spending 4 hours to rebuild my pc i get to tack on another 2 hours of being on the phone listening to some cheesy music. Each day it seems like MS is trying to puch away its customers. I have no problem with them verifying a legal copy of their OS but there must be a better way of doing it then calling customer support.

So I am an OEM. We sell anywhere between 80 and 100 machines a month. We pre-activate the units because most of these machines are not on the internet (we exist in a specific vertical market) and the customer is not going to like having to call MS to activate their product. If we have to call every time to get an auth, it's going to be a nightmare.

And learn how to spell. Sympathy.

Well, to be fair, who do you call if your Debian or FreeBSD installation stops working properly? For non-technical users, sitting on hold is a lot better than having nobody to call in the first place.

Well, the problem is that since less then 1% of the general public use Linux or most wouldn't know what it is if it was on a monitor in front of them. The people that post in this forum generally are very technical, admins, OEMs, etc.. people that have technical profiency.

Until Linux comes up with a GUI that is user friendly or a marketing scheme which appeals to home users, forget it. Learn to live with activation and quit pirating software... :-D

When Microsoft is willing to wait and spend 45 minutes talking on the phone to answer some basic questions about whether or not they deserve the money they're rightfully owed for having purchased one of their products, that's the day I'll be willing to do this without complaint.

Have you even used Linux? KDE is pretty darn user-friendly. As much as Windows XP...

Again, this does nothing to stop piracy at all. Pirates don't worry about activation at all.

Linux is as user friendly as a MS support call.
Bizarre file scheme, no real hardware manager, and way too much time spent in terminal fixing what went wrong during installation. Frequent and fractured updates and overall lousy driver support. I would love to have an alternative to MS, but Linux, be it KDE or GNOME as a front-end, sure aint it.
I just recently tried Fedora again trying to get MythTV going on a supposedly supported card. Gave up after three days of screwing around.

It's not so bad, just have to get over the top of the hill. Windows is just as tough for people that haven't used computers before.

... is MS loosing money, or are they just wanting to have ALL they money they can have? Check financial reports of MS. No loss... even better, they keep growing. :)

Idiots are those who don't question the needs of a corporation that DOES NOT LOOSE MONEY BUT WANTS MORE. Idiots, as someone mentioned here, will be *most* of the users who will go through the process to ensure they are legit users without asking MS to stop bothering them with questions after 45 minutes of waiting on line.

Now, you won't feel aggravated by my comments if you either don't find any hassle with the process or you are a corporate servant. :)

Good luck to all!

Bizarre file scheme? Dude have you ever tried to find something in the Windows directory?

This won't put a real dent into pirating of Windows since most of them use the "corp." version which doesn't require activation at all. In fact I know some who have a legit copy of Windows, but use a "corp." version to get around the annoyance of having to activate all of the time.

This change isn't targeting casual pirates or people creating corporate keys. The real aim is to stop unscrupulous VARs from selling (by accident or on purpose) fake COAs with product keys stolen from large OEMs. Microsoft is trying to go after the dealers, not the end users.

As if this would stop them as well. Its the dog chasing his own tail. He's going around and around, but he is getting nowhere at all fast.

i just don't get one thing, why does microsoft spend so much money and time on fighting piracy when they can simply make their products cheaper and available to more people. i would definately prefer to use original legal windows instead of pirated versions, but i don't wanna pay for that so much when i can get the product many times cheaper.

If you can't pay for it don't use it! What is so hard to understand about that?

It's MS's right to choose whatever marketing policy (as long as it is legal) and price. It's their right to fight piracy. The fight is moral as well as legal. It's definitely cheaper to steal or buy stolen stuff than to buy, but unlawful and amoral!

Maybe if they used a chain instead of a string to lock up their bicycles. :) Their security measures are a joke and an insult to the intelligence of their customers.

The thing is that it isn't the pirates which this will affect the most. It is those who actually paid for it. M$ is shooting itself in the foot yet again.

If you cant pay for it dont use it???

Who are you to tell people that?

What is wrong with you??

Most people dont have the $100-$200 for XP
then the other hundreds to buy office.

I barely make it by now with tuition and my car payment (that I have to make in order to not walk the 40 miles to campus) and no it isnt brand new its a 95

I myself am a student and with out Office and XP I would fail. Why???

Well because like most campuses the teachers only know Windows. That and my major is in OS and Pc Tech and Networking. So I have to have Windows. I also use Linux. But in my Field I have to know my way around in Windows.

Sure when I graduate and actually start working for money I could afford a Legit copy. but if I dont start learning now I might as well hang it up.

Sure we got computer labs but you are so restricted on them. Then there is Labs in class but you can only go there during class time.

Yes and I know about the student copies but that is also crap. you need a full blown version to learn on.

So to you sir who says

If you cant pay for it dont use it,

I say Bite my @$$

How does what your teachers are familiar with control what you use?
Look into OpenOffice or Star Office. Completely free and completely compatible with M$ Office. You can save in Office format and no one can tell the difference.
Windows is (currently) a different issue and (for now) you are stuck with it if you must remain complete.
You can get Office for the Mac (it is also fully compatible, although you can have issues is you use fancy fonts) and you will be free of Windows and Viruses and Spyware (although you won't be abel to play as many games).
We are working on that, though.

I really don't like this crap. I have 2 (two) store bought legit copies of X P and due to the fact that one of the main reasons I have a computer is I enjoy trying things. Different things. New things.

I end up re-installing Windows and everything else maybe 5-6 times a year due to fatal crashes. Every time that it looks like Windows is going to make it out of the 30 grace period I have to activate it now as it is. This just means that I'll have to go through the rig-a-marole more often yet. Activating before installing service packs, etc. It bugs me as it is that I already have to activate over the phone with someone from India. But to have to do so because I replaced something or an application crashed, good grief. I paid for my Windows and this is a Genuine Advantage I can do without. And why with the it APPEARS your COA is legal. What, you think I went and made up my own number. Quit treating me like a thief for wanting to use the software I BOUGHT from you. Appears to be legit, get out of my face.

What a load of crap you're spouting. Somehow I doubt you've actually ever run WPA.
The only time you need to phone up to activate is when the hardware has changed enough. You certainly don't have to phone up to activate for a format/re-install regardless of what software/spervice packs you've installed. Just done that this weekend - my third install this month due to what eventually turned out to be a motherboard fault corrupting data on the HDD.

I reactivate my copy of Windows XP all the time. I do a my MCSE trainind and blow of desktops and servers and reinstall. It takes less than 15 seconds to activate for me. What is it that you are doing??? I do not understand the whining going on here, don't you have more useful things to do?? Complaining about this and that. Sounds like a bunch of old women...

I believe MS has a right to stop theft of their product. You don't walk into Sears and take clothes because you think they are overcharging?? Theft is theft...

Jim

You must not of reinstall more than three times then.

of course I do, dont you??
its interesting how people can watch major corporations steal blatantly from its customers for decades and then get mad at REAL PEOPLE when they steal back.

corporatism made its own bed, and now that the computer/information age is here THE PEOPLE are taking back...maybe they should have looked ahead and considered that what goes around, most often comes around.

Hrm, then don't update your drivers or install any patches! Geez, you talk like you know everything. Are you offering free repair services? You sound like you are willing to put up, maybe you should let these guys that have real computer problems AIM you so you can help them not have to re-install.

This is by FAR the most RETARDED thing Microsoft has EVER done!!! I'm getting ready to friggin clone ***90*** machines which unfortunately these baboons here bought as OEM copies instead of volume-license copies. So you're telling me now that when I'm done with that cloning, that i'll have to freeeeeeeeking call Monopolosoft ***90*** EXCRUCIATING TIMES??? Thats it I'm going to hang myself it's all over. DIE MICROSOFT DIE DIIEEEEE!!!

::weeps uncontrollably::

Thank you. Computers are such a part of our lives nowadays, and, like us, are so very complicated that we seem to be averse to making light of them. Everyone has strongly held opinions and we take this so SERIOUSLY. Truth may be that just like humans, there is no perfect computer "solution" and many of the individual things we like to do on a computer are not compatable with each other. This lends itself to humor, just like us, whose foibles and incongruities are bottomless. The generations that preceded us spent effort on trying to design rules to live by, which by another name might be called philosophy, or a love of wisdom. I submit we cannot achieve wisdom by concentrating on the details of computers (or life) but rather on the underlying system, or philosophy; rules to live by. Too much is blathered about on topics dealing with the superstructure of computer operating systems and not enough is said about the underlying infrastructure. Let us not argue things the way they are, let us rather debate how they should be. Does the Microsoft "system" promise to grow with us and feed our desires for the future, or is it flawed from the start, patch after patch on top of a flawed architecture and not worthy of our vision of the future? Or does the open source revolution and the Linux kernel seem to be built on a better architecture and does this system seem to point to a better, more secure computer environment in the future? I think the latter is true and frankly don't care that some things don't work as well on my Linux computer, or that perhaps I need to work a little harder to make something work. If most of us decide in favor of the better system, rest assured, things will work better and easier.

I'm all for fighting piracy, but why do I feel like I'm being treated with an air of suspicion even though I buy/use legitimate and legal products these days - guilty until proven innocent? Microsoft is going about it wrong, and as a result of its lack of foresight that can prevent COA Product Key from being lifted, genuine OEM customers like myself are being treated as thieves and have to proof themselves otherwise.

My Dell computer came with Windows XP pre-activated but every time I reinstall the OS (a few times a year) I have to activate it again, even though Dell has insisted that isn't necessary. Activating over the Internet is painless, automatic and simple. Please keep product activations that way. I haven't paid for genuine products to be treated like it's stolen or illegal.

The content of this report have been thoroughly discredited throughout the blogosphere. ED BOTT (http://www.edbott.com/weblog/) LAYS DOWN THE TRUTH: "IF YOU BUY A NEW COMPUTER FROM ONE OF THESE 'MAJOR VENDORS,' YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTIVATE IT. THE SYSTEM MANUFACTURER ACTIVATES YOUR COPY OF WINDOWS WHEN THE COMPUTER IS BUILT. You can reinstall the operating system on that computer using the original Windows XP CD as many times as you want, with no activation required."

If you replace your motherboard or try to install to a different system than the one that the OEM version came with, then you have to call to activate. Please stop the FUD folks, and kelarius, IF you have to reformat the drive, don't you KNOW that your WinXP license is keyed to your name (and purchased machine) when you buy from Dell, Gateway, et al.? Users could format their HDs every day and Microsoft wouldn't care. A phone call gets you back up. You should know better. The only people whom this angers are those who want all software to be free, or else they want to keep stealing it for their own use.

Yeah, the blogosphere is an excellent source of accurate information...

But more seriously, yes, most OEM computers will come activated and this will not affect most users. This is mentioned in the article above. However, the link you reference cites the ability to reinstall because he does it currently. THAT is exactly what is changing. You can no longer activate over the Net with any OEM product key - it will tell you to call. So if for some reason you need to re-activate (reinstall, hardware change) you must call Microsoft.

A couple of quick notes on zridling's comments: first, as far as "The content (and authors) of this report have been thoroughly discredited throughout the blogosphere." While blogs are certainly becoming vastly more popular these days, as unimpeachable sources of information they leave much to be desired. And while we're at it, simply saying the authors have been discredited doesn't mean much unless you are willing to back it up with proof (or at least an explanation) somehow.

Next: was the quote "IF YOU BUY A NEW COMPUTER FROM ONE OF THESE 'MAJOR VENDORS,' YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTIVATE IT. THE SYSTEM MANUFACTURER ACTIVATES YOUR COPY OF WINDOWS WHEN THE COMPUTER IS BUILT" meant to be a part of discrediting the report? Because it seems to agree rather strikingly with the report's note from Joe Wilcox that "'Seeing as how the typical OEM would normally preactivate Windows XP, most legitimate users shouldn't have much need to go through the activation process.'"

Of course, the whole point of the article is that Microsoft was closing a loophole that an unsrcupulous dealer could make use of to in effect gain more licenses, or at least to bypass the proper activation process. This says nothing about those who buy and use PC's obtained from reputable major manufacturers.

If you are going to trash an entire article, please take the time and energy to read it and understand it first.

Bull****!!! I used to work for one of the "Major OEM's" in a tech support role, and i can tell you that this "you never need to activate" thing is just full of crap. Back whenever we had to do a format there was probably a 50/50 chance that you would need to activate. Usually this was painless, but occasionally you would run into situations pictured above where the key that we provided wouldnt work. In these instances we would usually just give them a new key. Now if this is true, what will happen is that those 50% of the reinstalls that require activation is that the OEM techs are gonna spend alot of time callling microsoft to activate for the customer, which is a giant pain. Maybe the OEM's will lean on microsloth and get them to lay off... Maybe...

There will be no way to beat piracy. It's a legend. No "software" is "uncrackable". People will always find vulnerable on Windows.

So if I reinstall Windows (that came with my computer--i.e., is an OEM version), does this mean I'll have to call to activate?

Yes, you will need to call Microsoft whenever you reinstall.

How many of us said this would happen 2-3 years ago? I remember getting "beat up" over mentioning that would happen somewhere. LOL

I think windows is one of the things Microsoft need to concern. but there is another lost which is coming from MS Office piracy.
Microsoft need to do something with this, so they can reduce the piracy of MS Office which is bigger lost for Microsoft.
It is better that they need to work harder to make it more difficult to piracy the products.
I believe they can stop on some level the piracy using.

But Microsoft also need to provide local telephone with Toll free number on each country, which can be easily found by the user for activating.

It is my opinion that Microsoft has not focused on the problem of piracy with Office because it is not required for their monopoly. They MUST lock people into their OS, then other sales follow.
There are very good competitors to Office, OpenOffice is free and Star Office is $50 or free if you tell them you are in school. M$ has essentially dropped the price of Office (at least the version without Access). You can buy the 'education' version of Office at nearly any retailer for $150 or less without any 'proof' of being in school required (the full Office on Amazon is $399).
The 'educational' version of Windows XP Home (from academic superstore) is $199 and from Amazon the retail product costs $104.

The Academic price is almost $100 MORE. Nice discount.

Remember, you paid for these 'features' and this pricing structure. Enjoy it, tell Congress ot break up this monopoly, or buy a different OS. No one forced you to buy Windows, you chose it.

When there was DOS 1 then 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 6.1, 6.2 I always purchased a copy even that I could have just copy my friends version. I had one machine, then 2 then 3 all because I just got latest hardware. I would use this copy I purchased on each one of my computers. I know that I was supposed to buy one for each but hell...I allready purchased so many versions that I think I deserve to re-use them on "my own" PC's.
Then there was Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000 and again I have purchased a legitimate copy (and used it on few of the latest PC in my possesion that were able to take advantage of this OS. My wife and my children were on the receiving end of some of these PC's.
Now I purchased Windows XP....and at the same time got hold of one of the 'other' version because I can no longer install this on my spare computers.
How much have I spent on Microsoft?
I have also purchased Norton Antivirus that now requires activation. Soon the other software programs will soon require activation. How is anyone going to activate all of them. How many programs do you have?

If only this stuff would work, it would make many people switch to Linux, but alas, like every other Microsoft anti-copying measure this one will be broken within 24 hours of introduction, and those people will stay with Windows. Sigh.

"Other recent actions that Microsoft has taken against piracy include the Windows Genuine Advantage program where Windows users must verify their license, or they will lose access to Windows Update and the Microsoft Download Center."

So basically, do not allow users who have a piraed copy of windows get crucial security updates that could prevent mass spread of virii or such stuff... It should be treated sorta like illegal aliens. We know they shouldnt be here but we still care for them when they are ran over by a car.

In that case, they really should make sure those with pirate copy won't be able to go online at all...

It's just like not having immorbilizer in a car, but made so tire falls off from stolen car and hit random people.

The plan is to still allow auto-updates on all XP installations, just the direct Windows Update site will block unverified copies.

it you read a little closer... users (regular or pirate alike) -will- be able to get there security updates... but wil not be able to get the other downloads from Windows Update.. (ie: updates to Media Player, other background type things)..

It's all most guaranteed that their is a crack of fix out their for this. If someone can build it , They can unbuild it why do humans think they are greater then other humans??? hehe we all have a brain you know geeze

Except those that spell like you do, apparently...

Right, wrong or indifferent, what gives MS or any body else the right to enter into your private computer which you bought and paid for the parts to build, keep a record of ten, Yes 10 internal items in your machine for their so called protection from piracy. When you buy a new car does the dealer have the right to question what, when and where you do with it? If MS put out a little better product than their crappy SP2 firewall, Joke IE, etc maybe people would not have to steal ir to get their moneys worth.

I always wonder why people complain about Microsoft so much. Last time I checked no one was forcing me, or anybody for that matter, to use Windows. People can choose freely. Also, it's Microsofts product. If you don't like how it activates don't use it.

I think Microsoft is doing a great service for linux here. I hope they continue to take a hard stand against pirates and make all their legit users suffer in the process. Personally, as I run a microsoft free system, I could care less what kind of draconian actions they take. The more invasive and annoying, the better.

coldfire

Hi folks,

I read this article from A to Z. And I had a big funnnnnnnnnn. AH AH AH AH AH from a Linux user

How's that latest big game? :-)

First

I am not a gamer. So I don't care. Second, when your PC will be infected, you'll tell me about "the big game". Once agan,. AHAHAHAH from Linux user.

Oh! By the way, I like the users Microsotft way try to defend themself or attack Linux users that they have the best products ... or maybe it helps to convainc themself !

Microshaft can put as many "security" futures into their programs as they like, we will find a way round! If somebody can think of it and make it we can break it. Going back to a much earlier post pirates hack to crack. We use the source code like coders (hackers) just we use it to crack. One of my systems runs WinXP and Office 2003, hacked and I still get updates, WMP, DirectX… with no problems, I even just installed SP2. This is because my system thinks that it is activated. There are 6 different way to bypass activation that I know to work well at present, and there will always be ways round no matter what Microshaft do. The reason why I hacked them is simple WinXP Pro = £160.00ish, for what a licence to use a buggy in-secure peace of software – I DON’T THINK SO!

Linux - Now there is a good idea and a great OS.

Latest big game? Its going great thanks, thanks to cedega I don't need windows. I'm playing Doom3, Half-Life 2, World of Warcraft and Star Wars Galaxies on my lil debian box just fine.... now hows your activation?

Fine. I don't have to go through something else to play any game. Emulators are a whole other can of worms to contend with. I can emulate Linux if I want to.

Infected? I don't have to worry about that. Aren't there viruses out there for the Linux OS as well?

And maybe one day if Linux has grown enough it will become of interest. Right now it is just small potatoes not worth the trouble.

I guess it's all a matter of the mess you want to deal with, I'll admit that emulators can be troublesome, but you need to admit that microsoft is treating its paying customers as if they're theives.

I've seen a lot of posts saying that its microsofts right to enforce their copy protection any way they choose, and I agree it is. It is also my right as a consumer to complain about the ways they choose if I do not like it, thats how capitalism works.

If microsoft looses 2% of their customers because of this, then it is their loss, along with the extra costs it will generate with their tech support. If they continue changing their copy protection, they may continue to loose clients.

I'm not delusional, I don't think that microsoft will go under as the OS giant any time soon, but if they don't change their customer relations, they may cease to be the dominate os in the long run (10-20 years, like I said I'm not delusional)

Microsoft has lost me as a client because of this type of tactic. I know they're not after me, or other legitimate users for this, they're after large-scale pirates, but it effects me, I'd be brought in unwillingly as a pawn in a coperate battle that I'd rather not deal with.

Now if any of you are outraged enough to try another operating system, there are tons of linux distrobutions out there that are free (I prefer debian, but thats just me) Fedora is another solid linux distrobution that you may want to try. If you're willing to dish out some money there is also Xandros which is a great linux-for-beginners.

try windows update as of now i have corp

and it wont let you in now

said you have a volume lic

Is the majority of the people here really uses legitimate winxp ? how may out there uses corporate versions?
do u really think there wont be any hacking/cracking to bypass the activations keys?
comon.. be realistic.
Symantec launched 2004 and 2005 *norton and system works*...

hummm with my corp edition, usin sp1, windows update works fine....