This device was a steal at 200, 180 is even better!

$200 for a doorwedge? That's dalylight robbery.

Blu-Ray is killing HD DVD, 6 months from now your $200 purchase will be worthless.

whatever you say ben

I'm not buying anything unless it plays both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. There is enough money in this "war" for it to go on for years. By the time someone wins, both will considered low resolution video.

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think either of these formats are going to go away. Thats why I've hit up HD-DVD and stuck with it. It's a solid format for me, and I know it's going to be so for at least 8 more years.

Why not just buy a player that does both? It will be a good year probably before combo players come down to a reasonable price and by that time it will still be cheaper to buy to standalone units. Unless space is a real issue, having 2 shouldn't be a big deal.

I have one for my HTPC, and it is fantastic!

I love how the people who say the HD-DVD add on has issues don't even own one. They get thier propaganda from www.sonyprotectiongroup.com

I've had one since December, it's flawless. Not one problem although I don't really use it anymore as I have an XA2 and an A2.

It will be $129 by Christmas 2007, about the same time the PS3 will have cost Sony about 5 billion so far.

Sorry Sony boy, BD is losing ground quickly to HD-DVD once again.

I've had mine since December too. Rarely use it, but I've definitely picking up 300 for it later this month.

That is a great movie.

Sweet. I knew they would finally drop in price and the fact we get 5 free HDDVD makes is worth it. So even the people that only have enough for the actual player, you don't have to wait until next check to enjoy a few movies. Not to mention your local blockbuster rents HDDVDS.

Prior I just couldn't justify the player for 200.00 with only getting king kong, which didn't look good.

Also, having seperate drives for movies and games, is a bonus.

I'm going to wait 2 weeks and ethier get this player, or go in on 1/2s and pickup a PS3 with my brother.

Our WII, XBOX Elite, PS3 set is almost complete! bwuahaha.

Wait a little longer and get the Toshiba HD-A2. It will be a lot quieter and upscales DVD's even better. Its only $60 more.

actually your local blockbuster doesn't rent hd-dvds it rents blu-rays (unless you live close to the 3% that has a shelf for hd-dvd)

But you can rent them online from various places so your point is pointless.

how is it pointless? lets see what was the point made in response to? Not to mention your local blockbuster rents HDDVDS. .. yet blockbuster stores don't rent hddvds so i guess the point is valid.

By me no Block Busters rent any high def of any flavor so the odds are that is the same with many others. So who really cares about Block Buster.

yea because near you a multi-national chain doesn't rent them so its probably nowhere that does. great logic.
probably anyone who wishes to rent hd movies from a store rather than through the mail might consider blockbuster. just because you might not rent from them doesnt mean thousands dont.

I don't recall saying it is nowhere but go ahead and think I said that. They rent both online so again who cares if the brick and mortor location has them. Once SOny turns on the locking flag on the system the stores will be stuck with disks thet can't rent that'll be fun to see.

There are TWO Blockbusters that rent and sell HD DVDs where I live, and this isn't a huge city either. I picked up The Bourne Identity yesterday at one of them. :)

How does the xbox360 hd-add on compare to toshibas and the other hd-dvd players out there?

The add on does start faster.

But has serious audio quality issues, and unless you have a Elite 360, you are at the mercy of ICT flag and DVD quality output.

Given the diminishing studio support, and lack of titles on the shelves. You are better off buying a real paperweight, rather than a Microsoft/Toshiba paperweight.

Sounds like a fire sale to me...

WOW thanks FOR NOTHING. I asked what it was instead you give me your biased bs, seriousily die a slow pain death.

Both formats mean nothing, why you insist on saying "Hd-dvd is dead" hello, earth to deluded one both formats have a tiny tiny bit of the market. Wait a couple years to lay your judgement and get a job, a new hobby, something.

Why mention ICT? There's no indication that ICT will happen anytime soon at all.

And fire sale? $20 price drops equals fire sale? I know you have to try to twist any HD DVD or MS issue into the worst possible thing, but surely you can do better.

Why would anyone pay $200 for an add on when they could pay $238 on Amazon and get a stand alone player plus 5 free movies?

I think the price drop is a joke, because I don't see it doing much to boost sales - the standalone is still a better deal.

So does that mean Sony was having a fire sale with the POS3?

I agree terminalx,

I still can't get an answer as to why the "winning" format with 95% of the next gen players out there is barely holding it's lead over HD-DVD movie sales which only accounts for about 5-7% of the players in peoples houses.

Our resident Sony fanboy has no answer.

The BD lead was about 2 to 1 but it has slipped to barely 1.5 to 1 recently. About 200,000 people have bought all of those HD-DVD movies sold to date whereas 3.8 million BD/PS3 bought only 1.5 times as many.

That's a failure if I ever saw one. The HD-DVD attach rate is about 9 to 1 over BD.

You will never get an answer from those Sony fanboys. It's too much for them to bare, that the PS3 is completely worthless and doesn't do much (if at all) to boost those BD movie sales numbers. Give it another year when BD is officially dead in the water and these fanboys will do 1 of 2 things.

#1 Stop posting on forums, and continue masturbating to gay midget porn.

#2 Hang themselves

9 to 1? 1.5 to 1? where do you get these 'updated' numbers? could be from the same reliabile source that said the ps3 will be gone come christmas?

Troll on. You seem to enjoy saying things that you know nothing about.

Sony is having a $50 rebate on one of their players plus 5 free movies oh my God it must be a fire sale.

Your desperation is clearly seen.

He is desperate to spew more crap thats why.

Here, maybe this will help.

3,500,000 (PS3's) / 200,000 (HD-DVD players) = 17 to 1 player ratio. Correct?

100% (total number of nex gen movie players including PS3 and HD-DVD) / 17 = 5.88% (HD-DVD's share of the total)

1/3 * X (total number of next gen movies sold) = HD-DVD

2/3 * X = BD

Plug in any number you want for X as it doesnt matter as we are comparing attach ratios.

(1/3 * X) / 5.88 (HD-DVD's market share of players) = 56.63

(2/3 * X) / 94.12 (BD/PS3's market share of players) = 7.07

56.63 / 7.07 = 8

The average HD-DVD owners buys at least 8 times as many movies as the average BD owner. If you plug in numbers closer to 4 million for the PS3, the ratio jumps to 9.5.

You may have noticed not one person jumped in to actally prove me wrong because the ones who can add and divide would come up with identical numbers.

The only ones who are saying I'm wrong can't prove a thing and look like this http://img509.imageshack...g509/1156/davebgau3.png when you bring up math problems.

If someone can supply me with accurate movie numbers, I will embarass BD even more with thier pathetic failure.

vgcharts.com (our resident jerk off's favorite PS3 fanboy numbers site) says there are 3.89 million PS3 out there which changes the ratio to 9.5 to 1, you pick.

Let's piss of the PS3 fanboys even more, according to vgcharts the 360 has sold 361,541 copies of NCAA 08 compared to PS3 and PS2's combined 267,994 copies.

That's pretty sad but if you take into account that 80% of all PS2's sold are now broken, it's makes sense.

gay midget porn.... thats classic.

I think a certain multiple personality PS3 / Sony freak practices autoerotic asphyxiation and cries while jerking off.

Oh Ben...You didn't answer my question...Still waiting.

the question is where you got the source of these numbers. but for fun using your figures less compare revenue inspite of the embarassing '8-1' attach rate.
lets use most affordable players just for good reference: ps3 we'll even say all of them at the new $499 price and only count $150(gotta be higher but oh well) per unit contributing to bluray sales because regardless how its used the hardware is purchased. compared to the toshiba $299 player?
blu ray players: 3500000*150= $525,000,000
hd-dvd:200,000*299= $59,800,000
so blu-ray player just for ps3 sales at $150 contibuting to bd sales: $465,200,000 higher based on your figures and allowing for $150 for each ps3 sold bluray hardware has made 7.78x more than hdvd in hardware sales.
as far as the movies actually go bluray movies are what an average of what $10 higher the hd-dvd? we'll say $5 just to be safe and your saying 2/3 of hd movies sold is bd so if there were 1,000,000 movies sold total, that would be
bluray: 666,666 at $34.99= $23,326,643.34
hd-dvd: 333,334 at $29.99= $9,996,686.66
so works out to a 2.3/1 ratio in sales and an additonal $13,329,956.68 in sales for blu-ray
so based on current hardware sales numbers you supplied and a total of 1million hd movies sold
bluray: $548,326,643.34
hd-dvd: $69,796,686.66
bd stands to make $478,529,956.68 more than hd-dvd based on your low attach rate.
id still rather be backing blu-ray in that case.

Nice Try.

Multiply 3.89 million times $309 and add that to Sony's loss. We all know the PS3 is a money loser, not a revenue generator. They have lost 1.2 billion on the PS3 at 3.89 million consoles.

Now they are losng another $100 per console.

We are not talking about stand alone BD players as to which only about 20,000 have been sold.

You are changing it to look like Sony is making money off the most popular BD player which is the PS3.

You are completely full of crap and you know it.

We are talking attach rates only, not staggering losses for each console sold.

Again, your idiot maths have made you look an idiot.

The production costs have dropped significantly, from the number you have. Blu-Ray diodes themseleves have dropped from $80 to $8. The EE removal saves abother $40.

$120 savings alone, not even considering the other stuff, like mass manufacturing and lower and resulting component cost reductions.

You can bet Sony are saving $200 per unit less than your numbers. Sure there are still losing money per console, but so are Microsoft. Sony have the PSP and PS2 to prop up the PS3 sales in the short term, what does Microsoft have int he gaming division?

There no gaurentee ICT won't happen VERY soon. When there are only 100,000 HD-DVD drives out there, the Movie industry won't think twice about enabling it.

its a sale from aug1 to sep 30th... wow

i think the promotion is only good for the 5 free movies. The price of the player will not back up after 9/30/07

I think they'll need to announce another price drop after the promotion is over. You'll probably be able to get the Toshiba A2 player for $180 by then.

Comments of how dropping the price is an act of desperation in 3..2..1.

Like you did when the PS3 dropped $100 you mean?

but it really did not drop by $100. Where can i buy a $399 PS3?

The ps3 WAS NOT selling hence they needed to do something until they can get the games going.

I predict if ps3 lowers it prices and actually comes out with some games, it will start doing better.

The difference is that the PS3 price drop was much more an act of desparation than the $20 drop on the add on.

PS3 will be 399.99 without backwards campatiblilty and without blueray? Without BlueRay wouldn't work, considering the games are blueray....no?

I heard something like that. Which if true, renders it completely useless.

Nope. I never said it was an act of desperation. Nice try though.

I'd rush out and buy one if it was $400, and they had at least GT5 and some knock off of gears of war.

It already is that. The best games are downloaded so you need the blo-ray drive.

The reason Sony is claiming the price drop exists is because they are going to release an updated console with, if memory serves right, a larger hard drive. As such they are trying to flush the the remaining stock of older PS3's off the shelves and this is only applicable in North America. And, of course, they'll make money on the units that otherwise would have never sold... they hope.

Personally, I believe they had hoped to possibly jack the newer console price up or not drop the older console's price as much but in the end they are not being honest as to the reason for the price drop. And, with a $100 drop they are hoping to flood more Blu-Ray players into the market and claim victory because so many more people own one. Owning doesn't equate to using but that's another story unto itself.

The updated console I think has the lesser backward compatibility which still boggles me. I really haven't been much of a console person in years although I did use a PS2 for a bit. If I owned a PS2 I'd find no reason to buy a PS3.

I'm more drawn to the Xbox 360 for, among other reasons, Gears of War or the Nintendo Wii just because it's unique and rather fun.

Anyway, back to the topic. The $20 price drop of the Xbox HD-DVD addon is in no way a fire sale. It's marketing as a result of prices dropping across the board be it for the PS3 or other HD-DVD players. If it was a fire sale they'd drop the price $100 like Sony did. That would actually be funny to watch. I bet HD-DVD would suddenly jump ahead of the inflated Blu-Ray market and Sony would, of course, downplay it as just being an addon and not really counting as a player and that not everyone is going to use it to play HD-DVD. ;-)

"and some knock off of gears of war"

It's already out. R:FOM.

Forza 2 is actually already released for the 360 too. I'm not really a racing fan, but I heard it's pretty good, maybe even better than GT5.

It looks to me that the 360 already has the games out now that the PS3 is 'promising' in about a year.

"downplay it as just being an addon and not really counting as a player and that not everyone is going to use it to play HD-DVD. ;-)"

That argument doesn't really work in this situation considering the HD-DVD add on is for movies ONLY.

No R:FOM is more like Half-Life 2. As far as I'm concerned there is no substitute for GOW on the PS3. As for Forza 2, well I'm not too much of a fan of it. I'd still prefer any GT version.

Valid point. I made an error with that statement.

Nonetheless, Sony will skew the figures in their favour one way or another. Since the PS3 comes with an integrated BR drive they'll likely consider it a standalone player and assume every owner of a PS3 is using it for watching movies. I also wonder how they calculate the number of owners. Do they consider it by the number of total times a PS3 has been sold or does this figure take into account the amount of returned PS3s that were resold to someone else. I wouldn't put it past Sony to neglect to figure in that number and I do know quite a few people who returned PS3s. Lastly, since the Xbox addon is just an addon and doesn't function w/o either being plugged into an Xbox 360 or a computer then it's not a standalone player and another way for Sony to skew the figures to give the BR format an inflated market share.

I wasn't saying that they wont try that argument. They will try any kind of spin that makes Sony look good. Never say never with a Sony cheerleader.

Sorry, you heard wrong..

http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=2901