Microsoft Concedes to Google and States, Will Change Vista Search

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

June 20, 2007, 10:34 AM

In agreeing to make what could be described technically as a minor change to the way it handles its options for consumer desktop search, Microsoft last night may have made its most symbolically significant statement to date with regard to its current stance in the technology market: It backed down, in response to a complaint from Google that its placement of desktop search capabilities within Windows Vista constituted a breach of its antitrust settlement agreement with the US and states' governments regarding middleware.

The question centered around Windows Desktop Search, a feature built into Vista but which essentially competes with Google Desktop Search, which a user must download separately and install intentionally. Google filed a formal complaint, which it never formally acknowledged or even publicly mentioned, but whose existence was finally entered into the public record yesterday by the US Justice Dept.

The issuance of its quarterly Joint Status Report on Microsoft's cooperation with its antitrust settlement, served as the first public word that Google made a complaint in the first place.

The fact that Google made this complaint, coupled with the appearance that the Justice Dept. and Microsoft appeared to be jointly doing nothing to address it, led many states' attorneys general who were previously cooperating with the DOJ to consider separating their cases and proceeding against Microsoft on their own.

"Google's complaint contends that desktop search in Windows Vista is a new 'Microsoft Middleware Product' under the Final Judgments," reads last night's Joint Status Report. The reason that's important is because the whole issue of what constitutes middleware was the turning point for Microsoft in its original US antitrust case, and what turned a potentially company-splitting judgment against it into a settlement.

Back in the late '90s, the US Government argued that middleware constituted essential operating system services, which manufacturers other than Microsoft could craft for multiple operating systems, though which the design of Windows intentionally prevented them from doing. Though the district court initially agreed with that argument in principle, after remand by the appeals court, a new judge dismissed that argument altogether, in favor of a new definition it admitted that Microsoft suggested for it.

"Plaintiffs' [the government's] definition of 'middleware' is irreparably flawed," read an executive summary of the court's revised final judgment in November 2002, "in its attempt to capture within their parameters all software that exposes even a single API." In accepting Microsoft's substitute definition, it created two official classes of middleware: the type made by Microsoft, and the type not made by Microsoft.

With regard to the first type, Microsoft was ordered never to preclude an OEM (a company of any type that assembles computers) from making default installation choices that favor the second type over the first.

For instance, if HP wanted to include a Lotus product for e-mail rather than Outlook Express (back when there was such a thing), it could, and Microsoft could not retaliate by giving HP less-than-favorable licensing treatment or marketing consideration, or any other retaliatory measure.

The court's 2002 Executive Summary went on to describe one aspect of what middleware could be, as it evolved: "Other future technologies captured in the definition of 'Microsoft Middleware Product,"' the court wrote, "are those functionalities which are both distributed as part of Windows and distributed separately from Windows by Microsoft, trademarked by Microsoft, and which compete with third-party middleware products."

Windows Desktop Search began its existence as one such product: an add-on to Windows XP. But Microsoft extended its indexing capability directly into the search functionality of Vista. That should not have been a surprise to anyone, since those extensions were obvious in the product's first public betas.

But this is where Google cried foul, even though it may have waited over a year to do so: It saw Microsoft as grafting middleware directly to Vista, in a way that may have harmed Google in one important way: It would preclude OEMs from setting up computers to install Google Desktop Search instead.

Next: The historic terms of Microsoft's concessions

Continued. . .
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By TexasKat

edited Jun 25, 2007 - 10:31 AM

I didn't use to think Microsoft as a monopoly but my thoughts on this has changed somewhat. HP doesn't want you to use their chat support unless you use IE, Real networks doesn't want you nor can download Real Player with anything but IE. There are so many places that don't want you using anything but IE. I find it funny that most of these places Windows has bundled with their software. Is this just me or what? My Vista doesn't even let IE 7 run. It's always shutting down or will never come up to start with. I can't keep it going however I tried to even download updates and could do so with my Firefox which was the only thing that would work. Same thing when I was trying to get Real Player and my account with them to work. I couldn't use Firefox which was the only thing working. Tell me there's not some kind of a monopoly going on.
I saw hooray for Google which I love myself and only use their search engine to start with and only wanted Google desktop search.

Score: 0

By matteversmansix

posted Jun 25, 2007 - 4:25 PM

i used to like google too. and as far as realplayer goes,theres better alternatives out there. and about HP Chat. i have an hp and have used hp chat. its garbage.

if you really wanna have a hard look at what google is, does, and supports, do a google search for blogger.com and lee kaplan. should make for very intersting reading. its also one of the many reasons i hate google and stopped using all their products and services.

Score: 0

By matteversmansix

edited Jun 25, 2007 - 1:30 AM

yeah........but, what if i don't WANT spyware, er googleware, on my box? i think google desktop is useless and monitors and sends data that google is KNOWN to collect. screw that. and i LIKE the way ms's search engine is integrated with Vista.

Quite frankly, it WORKS, and it works WELL. i dont care if google likes it or not. i wish MS and DOJ woulda told google to go to hell.

Score: 0

By Aires

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 5:05 AM

Well you gotta say - it's a fair cop really. [shrugs]

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 12:23 AM

...or not.

Can you name a single, even semi-popular modern OS that doesn't include such a feature? how about one that easily allows said feature to be completely disabled/replaced?

Score: 0

By jburrows

posted Jun 23, 2007 - 10:57 AM

Ubuntu.

From a desktop:

Applications -> Add/Remove..
Other -> Search & Indexing (beagle)

By default Beagle was not installed on my Breezy distribution, and by default the FindUtils package (which includes Find, Locate, Which(?), etc..) is optional in Linux in general. Try to argue that Linux locks me, or anyone else in proprietary choices!

This is definitely fair play for Microsoft. They should be writing modular systems, not bulky bloated feature rich software. The 80's are over MS! License software platforms, you make more money out of licensing anyways!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 23, 2007 - 2:21 PM

You got me.

That said, there are still issues with beagle itself. Beagle eats desktop resources like candy. Install beagle on your system and watch a 2ghz desktop perform like an old 800mhz laptop, and it definitely doesn't like searching through databases.

I'd like to see how well it performs as a finished product, how much further they'll have to integrate it into gnome to get it there, and how easy it will be to remove once they get it working well.

All that is anecdotal, of course. You are right, it can be removed. but, then again, so can WDS. ;)

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 1:35 AM

Oh btw.... Windows Desktop Search was a feature talked about for Longhorn(now Vista) atleast a year before Google Desktop Search went into Beta.

Further more, Microsoft has had an indexing service(albeit a resource hog up until Vista) in their OS since NT4 or Win2k not sure which.

Google is really streaching things here, and if you look at the MSDN you see a few ways to disable Windows Desktop search.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 12:21 AM


Further more, Microsoft has had an indexing service(albeit a resource hog up until Vista) in their OS since NT4 or Win2k not sure which.


Win2k. It's also the service that starts if/when WDS is disabled (giving rise to much of the FUD that you cannot disable WDS indexing, they're two seperate services, and GDS has never had a problem with the old indexing since it's been there since GDS was created.)

Google is really stretching things here, and if you look at the MSDN you see a few ways to disable Windows Desktop search.

It's amazing how people will search to the ends of the earth to find reasons to bash Microsoft, but cannot seem to locate such useful and accessible information when it could possibly hinder their anti-Microsoft agenda.

Score: 0

By rcutnik

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 10:17 PM

"Finally, while Windows Desktop Search will always run in the background, Microsoft promises it will not consume resources that could go to alternative desktop search programs."
Hahahahaha
Of course, if WDS is running in the background, it is using resources... and these can't and won't be used by any other desktop search program... or any program at all!

Score: 0

By Second Shadow

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 3:18 AM

Totally agree. I wonder if Microsoft REALLY expects us to beLIEve that statement.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 9:12 AM

Thus proving that neither of you have the faintest clue how services handle resources in Windows.

A service in low priority will give up it's resources to a service running at a higher priority. Thus, any service, be it GDS, VMWARE, etc., will have full access to whatever resources WDS (or, if disabled, the fallback index service from win2k-xp)was using when it needs them.

Score: 0

By The Dave

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 9:59 PM

What a crock of s***. It's Microsoft's own damn OS. They can put what they want in it. If Google is pissed about it they should create their own ****ing OS.

Score: 0

By Secret Agent Man

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 10:35 AM

Despite salty language and deliverance, I agree: Why should Microsoft have to cater to Google's desires in regards to their own operating system?

Score: 0

By Aires

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 5:04 AM

So eloquent - so intelligent so.... wait a minute, that's another forum.

Here we swear apparently when making an arguement so let me reply - pffft, what an a55h0le you are.

Score: 0

By The Dave

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 10:15 AM

At least I do it so the swear filter catches my words, unlike you that deliberately bypasses it.

You, clever?? I think not.

Hey......go pound salt. :)

Score: 0

By TexasKat

posted Jun 25, 2007 - 3:28 PM

Ya know, using words like that only shows your mentally and what kind of a person you really are. It doesn't prove that your tuff and all it just proves how crude you are.

Score: 0

By Aires

edited Jun 21, 2007 - 3:34 PM

Wow, what can I say - genius, sheer genius. You so clever and me so dumb - I really feel ashamed.

Sarcasm aside, (you do know what sarcasm is?), it seems a lot of your posts contain swearing. Just in case no one ever told you Dave - swearing ain't big and it ain't clever. I'm sure you can make your point without swearing can't you?

Or can't you??

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Jun 21, 2007 - 4:25 PM

s***, you mean that ****ting a cr**load of da** profanity doesn't make the ****ing point any more da** clear? :D

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 12:17 AM

lollerskates.

That's all I have to say about that.

Score: 0

By Pegusis2

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 9:09 PM

Personally I don't like any of these Desktop Search programs running on any of my systems. Their tracking ability is just a little too good. And who needs more resources wasted on this junk running... if you are going to be saving files on your computer... Remember where the heck you are saving them to and you won't have to search.

yada yada yada....

:o)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 12:16 AM

Try searching a system with multiple users. WDS/GDS/etc are godsends in such situations.

Score: 0

By Briantist

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 9:54 AM

That makes you the first desktop search Luddite!

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 7:59 PM

I'm sure guys like toolie are rolling in their graves. Baawwhhhaaaahhh, Microsoft has to play fair, whaaaa!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jun 22, 2007 - 12:15 AM

I'm sure guys like toolie are rolling in their graves.

Sorry to disappoint, but I ain't dead yet, so no grave rolling for me.

To bad they caved. Google's got no leg to stand on.

WDS indexing can be disabled.

But then, even at that, why should it be? File searches are part of *any* modern OS. As such, MS should be allowed to incorporate it.

Google, just like Symantec, hedged part of their business on a closed source, non-static framework/API that held no guarantees. their bad, not Microsoft's.

Not that any of this matters. Had they not included WDS in Vista, you'd be b****ing about that as well.

Hey, didn't Rob Weir just post another blog entry?

Run, puppet, run.

Score: 0

By mmatheny

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 2:49 PM

Well, now if some 3rd party vendor would raise a stink over the absolutely horrendus file manager in Vista, I would love it! That is a built-in app just crying to be replaced with a 3rd party tool!

Score: 0

By The MAZZTer

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 4:51 PM

Try CubicExplorer. It could use a little polish but otherwise it's a nice tool. Has filtering, file preview, tabs, bookmarks, breadcrumb bar. Only thing it's missing that I like is listview group support.

Score: 0

By Frostek

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 5:18 PM

Is Directory Opus still being made?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Jun 22, 2007 - 12:08 AM

Yup.

http://www.gpsoft.com.au/

Vista compatible.

Score: 0

By zxo20000

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 2:43 PM

longest article ever!

Score: 0

By WPFNEM

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 2:11 PM

To be fair for Microsoft shouldn't Google being going after Apple for Mac OS X Finder, which has built in search also?

I agree with this being dumb. This is almost like saying that Gmail needs to make it optional to have different brands of search engines shift through their mail engine.

Score: 0

By McFred

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 6:19 PM

WPFNEM says: "To be fair for Microsoft shouldn't Google being going after Apple for Mac OS X Finder, which has built in search also?"

Apple wasn't prosecuted and found guilty of abusing its monopoly position by prohibiting OEMs from including any software on the machines they make merely because the machine also has Windows in it. And Apple isn't being watched for flouting the terms of any monopoly-abuse settlement. Apple doesn't have a monopoly position to abuse.

That aside, no company but Apple can manufacture Macs, so computer OEMs cannot claim Apple is restricting access to any software they may wish to include in Macs any more than Ford can claim GM is restricting Ford's installation of anti-pollution software in Chevrolets.

Besides, Spotlight isn't the only game in town.

For what it's worth, Apple, as Microsoft did to restrict competition with applications other than its own, hasn't built anything into it's OS to cripple EasyFind, a freeware search app that in my opinion and that of many others, is superior to Apple's Spotlight because it consistently finds more files than Spotlight does.

There's nothing new in this. Norton, to name one company, provided the alternative FastFind for Macs from System 7 or 8 through 9.

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 3:51 PM

"I agree with this being dumb."

Sorry but this is not what is "dumb".

Microsoft, not Apple, not Google, not Dell nor any other company that provides components for PCs has been found guilty in criminal court of abusing its' Monopoly position. And only Microsoft is required by the court to give third party middleware access to all the resources and APIs it uses in it's own middleware.

Score: 0

By darkzero63

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 1:37 PM

I didn't have any problem changing my default search to Google. I dont see why they are complaining about it.

Score: 0

By Briantist

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 9:55 AM

This is about DESKTOP SEARCH which searches the contents of your local hard drive, not the DEFAULT SEARCH which comes under the "search the internet" option.

Score: 0

By rsx508

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 1:56 PM

Ditto. This is simply something for the MS-haters to rant about.

Score: 0

By midfingr

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 1:10 PM

As a single user on WinXP, I have no use for any kind of desktop search. Google is fine when searching the web, but it's unnecessary to have an additional indexing service running. This another reason I don't want to move to Vista, because it's pushed on the user, whether they want it or not. I guess I'm old school and keep everything 'offline' on CD/DVD and cataloged it manually.

I admit that I know very little about Vista and would imagine that this feature could be disabled. But what are the benefits of leaving this on if it's not needed or draw backs of disabling the service? I do know that the search box on the start menu in the RC versions was really annoying, it would've made more sense to place on the top or have an option to disable it via the start menu options.

The fact remains is that Google's application is by choice. If you want that kind of thing, then you can download the program. But in Vista, not only is it hard coded, but it's in the way of the start menu, which is frustrating to me. It seems to be overkill and competing with Google (if that's the intention) from this perspective is just an annoyance I can live without.

Score: 0

By Ike Dent

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 12:53 PM

This doesn't surprise me at all. I bought a new Compaq Computer with windows Vista and noticed this right away.

The new operating system fought to keep me from downloading Google toolbar and desktop search. Finally after making addition setting changes it completed the installation process.

Microsoft tried, when I had XP, to push IE 7 into the system and even tried to sneak it in attached to another update. This got so bad I turned my automatic updates off.

I tried to uninstall IE 7. Vista told me that I needed permission to do this. From Whom !!!!!!!!!!

This new operating system is forced on every consumer that buys a new computer. That's wrong.

I am reinstalling windows XP.

Score: 0

By TexasKat

posted Jun 25, 2007 - 3:37 PM

I happen to like Vista myself. There are still lots of problems with it. MY IE won't work at all.I can't even get the disabled one to work. I use FireFox anyway cause I hate IE. Nothing to do with Microsoft at all. In fact other than what I said before, I love the person that invented Windows, it was not Bill by the way but someone else and he as smart enough to get it and so something with it. My hats off to him. I remember only too well the Apple IIE that I learned on. I hate DOS a lot worse than I hate Windows. I don't really like Windows. No one else I guess has come up with anything better. I have never tried Linux or any of the other OS's. What I hate is them forcing you to use IE with certain web sites. I think that stinks. I have problems with Vista just like I did when XP came out at first. It hangs up all the time but all and all there are some really neat things it has that the XP didn't have and for what I do I love it.

Score: 0

By Metshrine

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 5:56 AM

Vista faught you on installing google toolbar and desktop? Please explain because i too call BS.

Score: 0

By Jedite

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 7:07 PM

Wow way to exagerate on everything.

First off, why would you want to uninstall IE7 from Vista? You can just install another browser and set it as default?

How did Vista fight you from downloading Google stuff? Seriously I call BS.

Yeah Microsoft Update always tries to install IE7 if you have IE6, you know why? BECAUSE its a better and safer Browser, not to mention that IE6 is no longer recieving updates.

The new OS is not forced on anyone. I just bought a new computer, and I didnt get Vista, Then again I dont buy from crappy OEMs.

No one is forcing you to buy a new PC. If you buy a new PC then well complain to your OEM, its not microsofts fault they stoped putting XP on the PCs.

Score: 0

By TexasKat

posted Jun 25, 2007 - 3:43 PM

If it's not Microsoft's fault then whose is it??? That is a really dumb thing and btw at the beginning of the year you could choose to not get Vista but that has been changed. I just bought a Dell and I had to get Vista. IE 7 to me is certainly not better than 6 as it won't even work most of the time. I have gobs of friends in Yahoo groups that hate it cause it always gives so much trouble. Yeah the updates get you if you don't check to see what you are updating. I learned that real fast. I have delt with tech support with HP for over the last 11 months. Believe me when I say they tell you to uninstall 7 and put 6 back on cause they don't have a fix for the problem. Even the techs dealing with Vista hate to have to deal with the problems they have with 7. I know this as fact from HP and Dell both.

Score: 0

By kashin

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 10:21 PM

Sorry, but I hate IE 7 with a passion. Can you explain to me why my system must run a service named ctfmon.exe? I Googled that and it's related to Microsoft Office Suite, something I never had installed on my computer. There is no way to get rid of it. If I kill it from the task manager, it comes back after I reboot. If I remove it from the start up list (not the start up menu, but the hidden start up list), it comes back anyway.

I tried uninstalling IE7, but that broke so many things. It tells me it un-installed fine, but it breaks just about anything that relies on the IE core. I'll give you an example. Un-installing IE7 completely broke my Supermemo program, something I use daily. It worked fine with IE6. It worked fine with IE7. I un-install IE7 and it doesn't work. I re-install IE7 and it works again. IE7 is a piece of crap. It's bloated and has a disgusting new interface that is completely counterintuitive when you consider the rest of Windows XP's layout. I made the idiotic mistake of installing it and now I'm stuck with it until I re-install Windows XP from scratch.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 9:03 AM

so blame ms that some crap third party program relys on a part of ie core? makes perfect sense.

Score: 0

By AnthonyB

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 7:16 AM

>> Can you explain to me why my system must run a service named ctfmon.exe? I Googled that and it's related to Microsoft Office Suite, something I never had installed on my computer.

Well, that's what you get for using Google I guess... half the story ;-) ctfmon.exe isn't just part of the Office suite, it's part of the OS and used for multi-lingual input. There are KB articles that describe how to remove it but your reasoning is totally absurd.

Score: 0

By xyzcb1

posted Jun 21, 2007 - 9:52 AM

"ctfmon.exe isn't just part of the Office suite, it's part of the OS and used for multi-lingual input."

He is totally correct on this. Don't believe him, d/l StartUpMonitor and change your system to a different language, it will ask you to allow CTFMON.EXE to run on startup.

Score: 0

By rgpandrade

edited Jun 20, 2007 - 12:32 PM

Well; well. Google puts out a good search engine and then an excellent web mail system followed by a desktop search which uses ten times more resources then Windows Search does. Windows improves on something that should be a no brainer for those of us in the computer industry; they make it work and then Google cries foul???

Bull!!! Make the darned program run better and prove that it runs better in WinXP which most users will have on their systems for a few more years yet and then we can talk about which is better. As it stands Microsoft wins hands down so stop whining.

Score: 0

By WeezulDK

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 11:30 AM

"Finally, while Windows Desktop Search will always run in the background, Microsoft promises it will not consume resources that could go to alternative desktop search programs."

I find this statement patently false. If it's running, it's using resources. Period. Personally, I can't stand WDS on Vista. It is horrible in that it won't search a drive that has not been indexed yet, forcing you to go back to the old search.

One would think that if the program is running all the time, and you plug in a USB drive of any sort, it should *immediately* be able to at least search by file name, which is normally what I use search for on a desktop. I don't want my system to index the contents of *every* file on my desktop, I just want to find a filename or folder name.

By the merit of it "...will always run in the background," it already is "consuming" resources that alternative desktop search programs would use: system ram.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Jun 22, 2007 - 9:05 AM

Services run differently than most other programs. A service running at low priority will, in effect, pause while services of higher priority are requesting resources.

What this means is that when GDS is indexing or querying the index (searching), WDS (or the fallback indexer from win2k-xp) will basically stop, freeing up the few resources it was consuming for GDS.

Score: 0

By SMFulton3

posted Jun 20, 2007 - 12:02 PM

Well, WeezulDK, system RAM is not the only resources there are in an operating system. I believe the concession is that there would not be some API hook for indexing services that would be completely consumed by WDS, that GDS or some other alternative could not use simultaneously or instead.

-SF3

Score: 0

By xzevious

posted Jun 25, 2007 - 10:58 PM

This is quite a silly argument over resources. Yes, as long as WDS has been loaded/run it will use system resources. No, it does not always mean it will be in physical memory (that's what page files are for). Yes, as long as it is "running" (which includes being swapped out into the page file) there will at least be handles to the app virtual memory location so that it can be reloaded and accessed. No, that does not mean it will always use CPU cycles which is what most people think about in terms of system resources (along with memory obviously).

So in short, to the average user who isn't worried about the couple of bytes used to maintain the handles to the app, windows memory management has the ability to all but completely swap an application out to the HD without the task manager seeing it as no longer loaded. Haven't you ever wondered what your system does when you load a game and you already had a memory hogging app running (Office anyone?) Or how you could run an app that wants alot of memory although your system doesn't have quite enough (or why memory is the best way to speed up a busy comp with only 256 mb?)

At any rate, I think google needs to go "have relations" with itself. I actually like the MS search in Vista, the google search was horrible for me in XP and the Vista search is very fast, and it never impacts my system usage because as was previously explained, services (or any application for that matter) with low priority will give up any resources that they are using (see above) for an application running with higher priority. Most applications running on the desktop are normal priority which is above low if you didn't guess (or didn't want to spoil the ending of the story for yourself) and so as the apps require more resources, the memory manager starts moving lower priority items into virtual memory (page) and the task management functions start suspending the code execution and saving state so that when there are enough resources again these low priority items can pick up as if nothing ever happened. To the applications themselves, if they were written to properly ask for resources from the system, they will not even notice this happening. If they don't, you can't blame MS for that (well I guess you that hate MS probably will anyway).

Score: 0