HELLO BETANEWS PEOPLE,

I just wanted to let you know that this is going to be my last post. you people are obviously to stubborn to notice when it is over.

it was fun this week though, and for that I thank you. seriously, get over it. there are a few smart people in here, but the rest of you need help. and whats with the screwie reporting? anyways... it was fun.

i'll miss you!

Oh no what a big loss to the entire community this will be....is there anything we could possibly do to change your mind???

Aww... but we need all the Blu-ray fanboys we can get. Steve-jamin Deac-aid will be so lonely. :(

Homer,

Our two dimensional friend, I cannot begin to express the great loss that we at BN will suffer in your absence. Your sudden and unprovoked resignation will send shock-waves throughout the blogging and online community alike. Your insightful and extremely valuable commentary, though short lived has impacted us all greatly. We stand in your debt and as a token of gratitude I personally hope that should you ever be re-incarnated, may you return to us in the form of a pie and in the glory of three dimensions. Only then will your true potential for mankind be realized. Until then, I bid you farewell.

--Mark

Netflix.

Slow, damaged discs & not doing anything for a while anyways.

In short a typical bought weak bit of Blu-ray PR where the headline does more damage than the substance of the action
(which is precisely the intention).

Are they the only HD DVD rental outfit?

No.

Nothing to see here, move along....

(here's hoping they didn't get paid enough to cover the lost customers)

and it looks like you chose the bitter pill.

at the hddvd ces both, the reps were also saying: "Nothing to see here, move along...."

where are you renting your HD-DVD's? cuz its not netflix OR blockbuster...

"where are you renting your HD-DVD's? cuz its not netflix OR blockbuster... "

Huh...maybe he's renting them from blockbuster then?

http://www.blockbuster.c...ollections/hdDvdPackage

Only HD DVD suffer damaged discs, as the don't come with the hard coating that Blu-ray has.

This is been suggested on a few sites, as another factor why netflix went Blu, as the reliability of posting HD DVD discs around was so bad.

On Blu-ray, the hard coating was necessary as the media layer was far too close to the surface.

Don't skew the facts and pretend that it was an additional layer of protection.

It has never been necessary on DVD or HD DVD media, as they were designed properly from the start.

I believe Blu-ray content providers instead need to concentrate more on the playability of what's recorded on the disc.

Correct, the hard coating was required as the media is closer to the laser. However it's also beneficial outside the player, resuling in a much more relisilant disc, which is good for rental situations.

I wouldn't spread jam on it thou.

Blockbuster only stopped carrying them in their walk-in locations. Online rentals are still available.

Looks like Toshiba are quickly putting together a Blu-ray player product, for launch in the next few months...

http://1080living.com/mo...file=article&sid=30

1080living.com has learned through sources in the distribution and retail business that the buzz is Toshiba already has a Blu-Ray player in the works ready for production for a September 08 release but now this has been pushed up to a July 08 release with recent events in the industry.

This would make sense as Toshiba is a major electronics giant and supporting Blu-Ray will only benefit the company in the long run. Toshiba is currently liquidating HD-DVD players for as little as $90.00 which many analyst consider to be under their cost but as demand dries up Toshiba is trying to cash in on last minute consumers that will be swayed by price alone.

One source cited 2 players are in the works with a price target of $250 and $350.00.

This doesn't surprise me one bit as Toshiba does have some rights to the Blu-ray technology. This would mean that they can start making bluray players right away.

This is taken directly from the story linked below.

"Toshiba covered its bases through a production and development joint-venture with Samsung: TSST, short for Toshiba Samsung Storage Technologies, enables Toshiba to get access to Blu-ray technology immediately. "
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36017/128/

A rumour is a rumour is a rumour.

here is another rumor, BEST BUY BACKS BLU-RAY OVER HDDVD......... wait a minute!

get your head out of the clouds man! its over, let it go jack!

How about Hollywoods famous rumour that wait for CES08 and Warner to go HD DVD exclusive..

LOL.... What an idiot.

Cheap shot... just like Warner's last-minute decision on the eve of CES 2008.

It was not last minute at all. That is a story made up by people that made foolish predictions to try and let them off the hook..

Oh yes, of course... the various HD DVD executives had plenty of time on the flights to Las Vegas to respond when Warner announced their decision to defect.

Yes, it was a last minute decision, and was covered extensively during and after CES 2008.

I was hoping the fight would have gone on a little longer. I still thin Blu-ray are priced too high. I have a cheap HD DVD in the living room ($98.00 + 5 movies) for my son to watch Transformer on, but I think I will get an additional PS3 for the living room for the Blu-ray functionality.

"my point is that plain and simple on-demand service is an inferior product, and will be for the foreseeable future...i don't care about the majority of folks...i care about me...i want uncompressed 1080p video sources.."

I dont care about a majority of folks.....Seems the Sony doctrine to me that comment

BEST BUY GOES BLU-RAY!

They just announced that they will push blu as the HD format of choice.

Now is it over?

It's been way over since BD went production in 2006. DUDs are just too lame to accept it.

"Guess blu-ray will only be good for holding data. So in the end we'll have video blu-rays ripped to data blu-rays as .avi that we can play on computers hooked up to HDTVs. Problem solved"

"I don't know about you guys, but I used to be really excited about moving up to HD. But with all this DRM/threatening crap, it really is making me just sit back and say "Whatever, SD still looks fine, and not moving up saves me all of this money."

"the one reason Sony may implement this is because of movie studio pressure. why do you think most(not all) studios chose BR over HDDVD...its because of the content protection. they will both fail if they're not as user friendly as dvd, simple as that."

"Hollywood can stick their high-definition 2-star movies up their ass. I'll buy a Blu-ray drive for storing data, but why in the hell would I want a video player connected to the internet?"

"Once again. Sony is steering the ship.
If they can make a 7 layer taco, Sony can
make a 7 layer DRM."

"Is it just me or does the vision of George Orwell in his book 1984 comes more and more reality?"

"Fu*k that sh*t, I for one am waiting for HVD storage if this becomes the mainstream. Who the fu*k do SONY think they are, they always give bad customer service before and after their product purchases and force their own solutions as the only way.

No way hosey, they can stick this sh*t up their fu*king arses! Sorry for the language but the ordasity of this once great company bewilders me!"

Just a minute selection of customers comments that seem to contradict the claim from a company that claims, "the consumer has chosen"

the hddvd promotional group released a statement. It was posted here above.

I think they are giving up. if they were really trying they would have said more to try to fire up the troops."it's unfortunate to see Netflix make the decision to only stock Blu-ray titles going forward."

that's all they are saying?

When will you realise physical media has no life anymore? It may sell well for a little while but it's going out. On demand services are growing rapidly with various cable and satellite companies offering packages in HD. Look at the music industry's sales this will happen to the movie industry if it continues to support any of the HD media. Lets face it, it's easy to buy any movie from anywhere on the web or in stores but people are getting lazy and deservedly so, it's a hard life and they want everything at the press of a button. Physical HD media will have no where near as long a life as DVD or CD.

ZERO cable/satellite companies can offer the quality of HD-DVD or Blu-ray....period...no cable company broadcasts in anything higher than 1080i....and nobody is giving uncompressed or HD audio....

...and yer point?

It affects a fraction of the content market.

The majority of folks in the On Demand market couldn't care less about "uncompressed audio" (what a joke) or even a 1080p picture (I see you're dragging that dead horse out again).

But hey, by the time they actually do? The infrastructure will be there to support it.

my point is that plain and simple on-demand service is an inferior product, and will be for the foreseeable future...i don't care about the majority of folks...i care about me...i want uncompressed 1080p video sources...i want uncompressed PCM audio, or at least DTS:MA audio....i want 5.1 channels, or even better 7.1....i don't want compressed garbage video that has artifacts in it because some cable company does not want to pony up the bandwidth for their service...nonsense...

Met, you and I (as well as many people on this board) are AV fans. We understand the differences between the quality of on-demand vs. hdm.

Unfortunately, if the mass market views upscaled DVD and HD on-demand from their cable/satellite company, the features you list may not really matter.

pride, i understand where you are coming from, but at the same time i would expect more from people taking the effort to read this website...i would not consider anyone on here reading this website and discussing this article to be the average consumer....

Sure, but many of us seem to understand the reality of what how the average consumer affects the market and the choices the market makes available to *us*.

us??? dude what are you talking about. don't include you in this discussion about hdm and consumers. wasnt it you that said that you didn't even own an hdtv because you didn't see the point to it!

I thought you said you were new? Suddenly you "remember" things someone might have posted before?

Nah... only the name is new. The person is most likely not, as most probably already figured.

I won't buy a blu-ray until probably build 3 and hope that then when 4 comes out I won't have to buy a new one.

Blu-ray may be an ok thing when its working 100% but right now its like at 75%.

???? You have been listening to the clueless idiots here havn't you...

Profile 2.0 players are available to buy today, and older players will play all Blu-ray movies just fine..

I won't buy another DVD player until I _have_
to, and I doubt I'll pay more than $40.
And if it's a stand-alone no xvid/divx will be
deal breakers.

Apparently you missed this?

http://www.betanews.com/...uray_players/1202765198

has nothing to do with Profiles...those movies mentioned are profile 1.0....this is an issue with SOME Samsung players...

do you realize how long it took for DVD players to hit the sub $50 price point?...hell....good DVD players are STILL higher than that....

There aren't any profile 2.0 players on the market...only one that can be upgraded to the spec later (and its a games console FFS).

Panasonic have the DMP-BD50 in my part of the world, it's BD-Live, the PS3 is confirmed to be getting BD-Live soon, and I believe there is LG and Sony BD-Live players due for launch any day now.

Yeah, I took a look at the link you posted, to the BD50. Notice the date it released in Europe, is the date AFTER I posted.

Besides, what are you doing over there? I thought you were in Allentown...(I keed, I keed).

About as long as it takes me to find my car keys.

-Nod- and plenty of bad ones also cost more than $50.

dont you people think it's better for this to end? If anyone is hurting consumers more its toshiba and paramount and universal by not abandoning hddvd.
Even if it was a decision made by the studios and not the consumers, lets look at the future. it is better for the survival of this media to give up. toshiba and universal is the ones that are hurting consumers now.

shame on them!

Don't worry, it looks like Universal are on the verge of announcing it's about to go format neutral..

http://www.thegamersthou...onfirms-universals.html

I don't trust the media anymore. So I'll wait until we have an actual press release from Universal. How many stories have you seen that are either completely wrong or pure speculation.

The thing I'm mad about is if the studios wanted to decide this they should of did it before the players came out. To claim the consumer decided this is complete BS.

get over it you, you'll live

Has anyone considered that the packaging of the HD-DVD's vs. Blu-Ray might have affected this? I find the dull red colour of HD-DVD turns me off - I don't like looking at the packaging. The Blue packaging is more cheery.

Don't laugh, people buy millions of MP3 players based on seemingly trivial differences in colours and styles. Why else would people pay twice as much for an 'iPod', when what comes through the headphones is the same?

I really wanted HD-DVD to win. So far it looks like there loosing this war. Now I just want this war to end, so we can move on. HD on demand, anyone?

The infrastructure required for HD On Demand is many years away, many locations will never get it, meaning physical media will always be required.

http://www.maxconsole.ne...e=news&newsid=25051

The start of many..this is getting common with Sony...

This is good news. Anything that brings a quicker end to this ridiculous format war is welcome.

I don't care who wins, I'm just holding off until there is a winner.

It's safe to say the winner was decided on January 04th 2008...

Until all content is available in one format, and affordable players (around $100) are available in that format, nobody has "won."

Not so sure given that the cheaper and (until BR is on 2.x or whatever level) more advanced format is going down the drain. Looks like I'll just skip this generation and wait for online HD.

Agree.

How long do you think Universal and Paramount can now hold out, now that NetFlix won't be stocking their movies?

I can't believe how dumb some people are here...

I know what you mean ben, some people are just to into this down-with-sony crap to realize that its over.

or perhaps we just don't want to spend $400 on an outdated player and some of us don't want to use very unattractive game consoles to play movies that goes for ps3 and xbox both

The Consumer has chosen, and it won't be either Blu or Red... it will be ... DVD!

Until Sony.. ahem that camp can release a Blu player under $100 then noone will really care that much... niche market. Toshiba will continue to sell HDDVD players as High Def content with Dvd Upscaling... which is what the CUSTOMER wants today... I say, drop ALL models Toshiba to under $200 for the high end, and $69.98 on the low end at Wally world, and you will see millions sold in a few months.. thats what the consumer wants.

Can the Xbox HD-DVD drive upscale DVD's too?

With no studio or rental support HD DVD is dead.

Buying an obsolete format is not "what the consumer wants."

you're delusional!...

DVD is selling more right now, as it should be....but remember it took 7 years after DVD's launch before it actually outsold VHS....you people are spoiled by current DVD player prices...try and find me a DVD player that sold for $100 in 1999....doubt you will find one...

guess what? BD players upscale DVD's just liek HD-DVD players do....

do you want Toshiba to go bankrupt?....they are already loosing money on every $149 player sold...you want them to lose twice as much? It would bury the company....

DVD is selling more right now, as it should be....but remember it took 7 years after DVD's launch before it actually outsold VHS....you people are spoiled by current DVD player prices...try and find me a DVD player that sold for $100 in 1999....doubt you will find one...

Ahhh....SSDD, I see.

"Universal and Paramount are the two studios supporting HD DVD exclusively."

Their not cutting out HD DVD, their cutting out Universal and Paramount movies.

This massively increases the pressure on Universal and Paramount to go format neutral. NetFlix rental not stocking their movies is a major blow.

Anyone see a pattern?

First content goes, WB goes Blu-Ray exclusive...
Next content creation goes, Sonic drops HD-DVD support...
Then rental content goes, Netflix goes Blu-Ray exclusive...

It's not really a blow at all for the studios, aside from potentially keeping consumers from buying HD DVD players, which in the long run could hurt them.

Even if Netflix was buying 1,000 copies of HD movies, that's still just a small fraction of actual sales. Studios get paid when sales are made, not when a company rents movies out.

You can think that, but it sounds very much like you are in serious denial...

Woah buddy, your the one in denial...

No he's not. look around. almost everyone is saying what he is saying. its only you people that keep believing that hddvd still has a chance. lets end it and move forward people. we all lose if this continues.

Im talking in general about ben

well the topic now is about the war so you are the one looking like you are in denial. get over it.

Um, when Netflix buys 1000 copies (much more for the big movies), they don't just go to Walmart and put it in their collection and rent it out and keep all the money. They have to pay a surcharge to the studios every time it is rented out. I'd imagine around 50% of your monthly payment goes to the studios.

If Netflix/Blockbuster drops a studio, you can sure as hell bet that they will feel a serious pinch on their earnings. This isn't just a loss of 1000 HD-DVDs per movie.

ouch!

This just doesn't make any sense what so ever. With well over 1 million HD DVD players out there (and more being sold every day) why would you cut out a huge chunk of your potential customers?

Sounds a lot like someone got bought off here and paid a large sum of money (privately) to make a decision that would run contrary to common sense and good business decision making. (Hmmm....anyone picking up a theme here yet?)

Cos if a very small proportion is renting HD DVD movies, why continue to spend money to support them? Remember, Blu-ray are selling more discs than HD DVD by a huge margin.

You do of course realise that it's not actually " well over 1 million HD DVD players" out there..

a) NetFlix is a US operation, and that Toshiba quoted 750,000 players sold is a GLOBAL number.

b) Only a small percentage of users rent films.

c) Many owners are now dual format, or will be very soon. You only have to look on most AV forums, to see people going dual format, or selling their HD DVD equipment. The amount of open-box players in stores are stacking up daily.

I find it laughable that every time someone else dumps HD DVD, the fanboys claim, without any proof that a payoff was involved. Why is it soo hard to understand, with over 11 million Blu-ray capable players globally, HD DVD really does not stand any chance whatsoever.

The majority of sales figures for Blu-Ray players are for PS3's that people have purchased. Of course, those people don't actually play Blu-Ray movies on their PS3's very often. They use it for gaming. They probably use their HD-DVD player that they owned long before their PS3 purchase for playing movies.

That's already proven to be false. The amount of standalone Blu-ray players is small (compared to standalone HD DVD players), but the sales of media vastly outperforms HD DVD.

If more movie studios were format neutral then HD-DVD movies would be significantly outselling Blu-Ray. Most consumers that are interested in HD movies realize that HD-DVD has always been the superior and less costly high definition format. The only reason movie studios are backing Blu-Ray is because Sony told them it's better (even though it's clearly not).

that was a pretty dumb answer for someone that is suppose to be smarter than me. but at least you spelled every word correct.

Consumers aren't going to be very happy with movie studios and rental companies telling them they have to dump their HD-DVD player and spend even more money on a Blu-Ray player. I would love to see you come up with a reason that Blu-Ray is technologically better for movies (not backing up computer data) than HD-DVD.

Blu-Ray doesn't have any kind of technological advantages that would make it better than HD-DVD for movies.

does it even matter anymore? i can ask you what the advantages vhs had over betamax but who gives a rats @ss anymore. that war ended years ago. this war has ended.

get over it, move on.

...spelled every word correctly. :)

But DVD does....

It's always good to read good BLU news in the beginning of the week. Not trying to sound like a fanboy (and yes I AM), but as I have said in the past that since Warner's switch, every week there are several companies that follow suit. It's definitely a domino effect. Unless that MS, Uni and/or Par pays another major studio to go HD, it is definitely a checkmate.

"In a win for Blu-ray and a loss for consumer choice, Netflix said Monday it will no longer be stocking new HD DVD movies for its subscribers to rent."

As usual, Nate Mook putting his own opinion in his "news" articles. Consumers have already chosen, they have chosen Blu-ray, and this is why Netflix have dropped HD DVD support.

The other reason of course, is the massive disc scratching issues that affect HD DVD rentals, and the superior coating on Blu-ray is more rental friendly.

"Only a small portion of Netflix subscribers have chosen to receive movies in high-definition,"

Source?? Or did Nate make that up too?

For anyone that wants to read the UNSPUN version, the official press release is here:

http://netflix.mediaroom...x.php?s=43&item=265

While one might argue that consumers chose Blu-Ray, it is interesting that all of these things are happening after WARNER BROTHERS decided to go Blu-Ray only. Sounds more like studio choice to me.

I would have to agree with Nate. Netflix no longer stocking HD DVD is a blow to consumer choice. I am a consumer, and I want HD DVD. Regardless of what the other 99.99999% of consumers want, I can not get HD DVD through netflix.

Your interpretation of what he wrote shows bias on your part, not his. And yes, I'm sure it is impossible for netflixes PR department to spin anything of their own. We all know company's PR departments are the best way to get unbiased, unspun facts about themselves.

Actually, when you take away an option for consumers, that is a loss of consumer choice.

Netflix subscribers no longer have the choice to get HD DVD movies, or any high-definition movie from Paramount and Universal for that matter. That is a loss for consumer choice.

Netflix itself said only a small portion of their subscribers chose to receive HD movies. Check the link you posted.

And how many different names do you really need to post with here? It's getting absurd.

Do what I just did, I called netflix and told them of my dissatisfaction, the woman i spoke to said that i was not the first to call to complain, and that they are franky suprised at the amount of complaints they have gotten.

Consumers didn't choose anything here. If you think so then you are kidding yourself. It's always been look and see which format has more movies you like then pick. I couldn't pick HDDVD and see Cars or Pirates and I couldn't pick Blu-Ray and see Transformers. If all the movies were on both formats I bet HDDVD would of won.

So now consumers that either have HDDVD or have both have lost. Until Universal and Paramount go neutral (which who knows when or if that will happen) you can't rent them in HD and if you want to watch them you have to either use SD DVD, VOD, PPV, XBox Live, or AppleTV.

So I guess if you want to watch Paramount and Universal in HD Netflix is not for you.

There *IS* no consumer choice and there WON'T be consumer choice until the consumer can go out and buy their film of choice on either format. People don't seem to understand this though ;)

That's exactly right. Consumers didn't choose. Content providers did. If they wanted consumers to choose all of the studios would be format neutral. That's the only way you can get a fair choice. I think the content providers should of chosen before any of the players came out.

That's fine, because for every HD DVD person that cancels, there will be hundreds of Blu-ray owners signing up. NetFlix surely would have realised this would upset a few people, but at the end of the day operational profits and the bigger picture must take priority.

The fact is, there are vastly more Blu-ray consumers out there than HD DVD, and the extra hard coating on Blu-ray is beneficial to a rental operation.

This is what swung it.

Errm, you decided to add the word SMALL to your version of the story...

Check the link I posted...

NetFlix: "While only a portion of Netflix subscribers have elected to receive high- def DVDs, a majority of those subscribers have chosen Blu-ray over HD DVD."

Nate Mook's twisted version: "Only a small portion of Netflix subscribers have chosen to receive movies in high-definition, and the majority selected Blu-ray", the company said.

Sorry, I only post under the one name. What other name do you think I post under?

If Blu-Ray players hadn't been rushed to market it's likely it would have significantly outsold HD-DVD instead of being on almost equal footing. Most people who are interested in high definition movies have had a superior HD-DVD player long before owning a Blu-Ray player.

Even nate realizes bens absurdity!

Even when Blu-ray gets positive press, you still find a reason to piss and moan...amazing...

Nate's inclusion of the word 'small' does nothing to diminish the story; in fact, it keeps it in perspective. In the most recent news that I could find (dated in Oct. 07), the statistics for hd media renters, thru Netflix, was only .03% of their total install base.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9202

If anything, given the information in the link, he (possibly) should have said "recently, the majority selected blu-ray."

Apparently, the only way you'll ever be happy is if each and every news site bends down and kisses the BDA's ass, the way you do. The site is called Betanews, not Beta-Blu-propaganda.

As for the screen-name thing: Do I really need to mention the time (yet again) that 'Steve Austin' jumped into a thread that only BL had been posting in, with "That's not what I said...", in defense of the BL point of view?

However, since we haven't seen hide nor hair of Steve (or Joey for that matter), it's possible that you've retired them. Maybe Nate has the ability to check the IP addy's of the posters?

Didn't you once point out that HD DVD uses the same hard coating?

I've said this many times before.

IF the studios had treated each format as a platform (similar to video game consoles), and given each the same support, would the consumer have spoken.

Im sure Nate does.

Please... if anything the hard coating brings the level of scratch resistance to meet that of DVD / HD DVD.

The coating was necessary on Blu-ray media.

That is very true. It also makes the discs more expensive to manufacture.

Standard DVDs work well for Netflix, so HD DVDs would be the same.

If Netflix is in financial trouble now, just wait until they lose half of their subscribers by deciding not to rent HD-DVD discs. Most of Netflix's high definition renters own an HD-DVD player and those customers will not be happy that Netflix is telling them they have to spend even more money in addition to their Netflix subscription fees to buy HD-DVD discs.

yet it still didn't matter did it. hddvd was still the loser.

oh well. now get over it.

Netflix never did really promote HD-DVD for the most part hid they even had HD-DVD's so no the consumers did not choose just rich money grubing Sony. Just wait soon everything will be Blue ray and sony will demand a halt to dvd production to push blu ray then watch if you want to buy the newest film you will need to get blue ray and it will cost you $39 or you get nothing. just watch

When the consumer has 3 choices, in regards to Netflix...rent HD DVD, rent Blu-ray, or not rent from them at all...and one of those choices is taken away by the company, then there is a loss for consumer choice.

It's a pretty simple fact.

Everything won't be Blu-Ray anytime soon since most consumers want HD-DVD. It will be a very long time before HD-DVD or standard DVD production is halted completely. I think it's hilarious that Netflix is surprised by the number of complaints they've received about their decision to stop offering HD-DVD movies. It makes me wonder what kind of idiots they have working there.

Exactly. It was already shown before that most people set their preferences to HD DVD when browsing the high-def media section.