Way to go norway!! Everyone knows Apple an unfair product with iTunes.

But isn't this really about US companies pushing there products and control on other countries.

Don't worry this will all be settled once we have a single world government..

I am a huge Apple fan, but they are a bit too closed on iTunes, and I am not sure that is for "giving the best experience to the user".

my comments at http://www.commentino.com/orim

I am from Norway and we come around.
Look at this.
www.rosebua.com
Have a nice day.

Currently the State of Norway has about 500 billion dollars invested in the stock market (and No, thats not only from Oil)
Currently the US has how much debt? Silly Norway?

They must be doing SOMETHING right over there... It has been rated the highest standard of living by the UN four years in a row.

But I guess the US, with the financial crisis going on and president Bush trying to save it, what do you think Norwegians say about that?! haha...

"Currently the State of Norway has about 500 billion dollars invested in the stock market"

The last 5 words of that is what's causing them some trouble now.

The Norwegian stock market (or Oslo Børs) hasn't faired well recently either. It's halved in a 6 months.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

(Most of the rest of the money comes from fishing and hydro-electric power)

Blah Blah Blah.

Let's see. A country with the population of large US city, whose anything but diversified economy has benefitied almost singularly from four years of a cyclic upturn in oil exports. Norway has been supplying energy at prices driven up globally by the needs of such emerging economies as China and India, and it has been increasingly importing low cost consumer goods in return.

The irony is that such a short term fiscal windfall due soley to the injection of inflated oil revenues make it even more difficult to gather popular support for thorough going reforms of early retirement, sickness absence and disability benefit programs which are essential to bring pension and benefit promises into line with what is sustainable over the long run, and which need to be pursued vigorously.

Quite an accomplishment for a country with a total population equivalent to a single large US city.

And the source of this prosperity? Industry? Investment? Thrift? Ingenuity? Nope! Its ALL due to simple natural endowment.

Anything else would be like crediting a beautiful ditzy but buxom blonde's rise in society to her prodigious mental prowress.

So, one wonders, if it is in such a prodigious position, why doesn't it start picking up more of the disproportionate UN expenses paid by the US, as well as the disproportionate amounts of assistance provided to other countries around the world in the various forms of aid paid by the US.

You want to talk big and compare it to the US, pick up the tab and the responsibilities as well. Funny, I don't see Norway expected to foot the bill for guaranteeing the defense of countries such as Germany that whine that they can't afford their own protection...

But then if the US simply sat on its wealth and refused to assiat others, the same author would be whining - whereas he thinks it so erudite on the part of the Norwegians.

And ironically prostitution is down in the EU -which would go a long way toward expaining your dysfunctional moniker.

low blow foxfyre, low blow...

"Funny, I don't see Norway expected to foot the bill for guaranteeing the defense of countries such as Germany that whine that they can't afford their own protection..."

Hahahaha. Germany. You're suggesting Norway pay for Germany to even things up.
Good luck with that one.

And you've lectured ME about learning history before.

Find out who is providing most of the defensive capability for them now...

Guess.... You know, the one they are so quick to complain about...One can only wonder why the US is spending a dime on this at this point. But then we were also involved in attempting to stop the genocide in Bosnia too as much of the EU just looked on with the usual holier than thou attitude all too ready to pass judgement on others who at least try...

So we listen to them b!tch about our troops being stationed there, and listen to them whine if we propose pulling them out...

Its past time they come home.

And all that after we also paid for much of the aid and a fair degree of the reconstruction after WW2, which I am sure some will blame us for as well...

I have been there and many european cities and i live in Europe. They are doing nothing right there. That is only oil and atlantic's fish money :)..they are snobbish, thats all...The dirtiest european city was Oslo. Even you can't buy a car easily.Believe me even in Russia there are better cars. If i will go around by busses every day, this is the biggest lie of high living standards. so Apple doing right my man,(Apple always doing right, iphone,ipod etc.) Laws need to be broken by someone :)

Why doesn't Apple just refuse to do business there?

You can buy DRM Free MP3's from both Amazon.com and Walmart.com, and they work great with the iPod.

Plus, Apple also sells DRM Free versions of songs in their own native format, right?

Since it's DRM Free, can't you just convert it to MP3 if you want?

Besides, nobody is forcing you to buy an iPod or use the iTunes store.

I'm not sure I get the big problem now that Apple sells DRM Free music.

Silly Norway...

"Why doesn't Apple just refuse to do business there?"

Business 101? You don't ignore markets unless it ultimately harms your bottom line. Norway is a small country, but getting a lead-in in all you can to be #1 is what appl must do for its shareholders.

And "silly Norway" ? Serious? What a wonderful country, they do almost everything right, other than they take themselves a tad too seriously.

This is NORWAY we are talking about. The iPod and iTunes market is probably not very large, especially because everything's run by Windmill Power... :)

Seriously though, all Apple has to do is stop doing business with that one country and they are good to go.

They did just fine without NBC in the iTunes Store, they can do without Norway.

"especially because everything's run by Windmill Power"

From that I can tell you couldn't even point to the country on a map.

Oil. They keep it all to themselves pretty much.
There are only 4,500,000 in Norway, it's true, but it's a particularly rich market.

Apple can still sell to Norway until they put an injunction or court order or whatever on them to stop their practice. Only then should they pull out, as profit is profit.

It was a joke.

My wife and her family hail from Norway. Kirkenes.

Fair enough then.

"They did just fine without NBC in the iTunes Store"

Nope they didn't. Big thorn in the foot with major alternatives entering the market. Had to be fixed.

Then setting a precedent and very bad press. You don't start a fight with a well respected nation because their consumer laws are too friendly for your product.

Re existing customers - Apple could be ordered to refund.

Plus you never ever want to piss off Vikings or their offspring.

Gee, lets see...

If this reflects the consumers, Apple would not have sold any product - as I am sure the Norwegians are a very logical bunch.

But I have a feeling they have sold product there, which either means that this fails to disuage the consumers or they simply don't care, and the Norwegian state would in effect be denying them the right to purchase what they want - which they have proven by purchasing it. And of course no one would ever think of ripping their own sources, say from CDs, would they?

So let's see...its a wash or the existing consumers lose.

Yup, bravo Norway.
Its always nice when the state knows what's best for the consumers.

Apple should simply pull out of a physical presence and let the people buy them online and source the music online - and let the Norwegian government try to track that down. All because of a stupid lo-fi digital Walkman.

Life must be Utopia in the land of snow and 9 month winters if this is all they can find to worry about, as obviously their concern regarding the problem with alcohol abuse doesn't rank nearly so high.

Priorities...priorities...

But then, let's not fool anyone. This isn't over music; this is a topic only because its Apple...I wonder how they treat MS licensing and activation there? With the same ire and determination? Hmmm?

Most of Norway wants Ecstasy (MDMA). This isn't legal.

They don't just let them sell it anyway.

If it's against their laws, it's against their laws.

"denying them the right to purchase"
Do they have the RIGHT to purchase Ecstasy? How about Skateboards (these were banned between 1978 and 1989)?
What gives them the RIGHT to buy something that's against the law?

Also: Norway is mainly drug addicts not alcoholics (in case you couldn't tell from my analogies).

"I wonder how they treat MS licensing and activation there? With the same ire and determination? Hmmm?"

As it happens they recently didn't renew a large contract with Microsoft on the licensing of public sector equipment in order to boost competition.

Also:
http://www.aftenposten.n...ness/article1023195.ece
http://findarticles.com/...i_m0ECZ/is_/ai_n6343202

Just because that doesn't get written about here on BetaNews doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

"Life must be Utopia in the land of snow and 9 month winters if this is all they can find to worry about"

Do you honestly think a country can only work on one thing at a time? Really? Just because this one is in the news does not mean it's the only bloody thing they're dealing with.

I probably need to point out that I don't agree with Norway's government on this, but your argument is futile. They've voted this government in, so they'll get what they voted for.

"Yup, bravo Norway.
Its always nice when the state knows what's best for the consumers."

One of the only two bits of that I agree with (yes, I understood it was sarcastic).

Let me remind you, Tax on products is 25% there.
The govnerment can do what the **** it likes and no one in Norway bats an eyelid.

Then I guess they get what they deserve.

But it seems pretty stupid to deprive people of the use of consumer items they buy (and no, I am not talking about drugs!) in order to protect their interests regarding the availability of software for their devices...

Yup , we saved 'em! We banned the devices because they wanted to use the harmless devices for their own good. I can only imagine the basis for banning skateboards!

And it is interesting to note that they still allow MS to sell their stuff with the DRM of requiring each copy to be authenticated. But I guess they can't afford to simply outlaw that too.

To paraphrase MP: "A very silly place"

"and the Norwegian state would in effect be denying them the right to purchase what they want"

The US American state is denying many of us here who occasionally want to kick your a** the pleasure as well ;-) So what's your point?

"Just because that doesn't get written about here on BetaNews doesn't mean it doesn't happen."

LOL!

"And it is interesting to note that they still allow MS to sell their stuff with the DRM of requiring each copy to be authenticated. But I guess they can't afford to simply outlaw that too"

I think the difference is.

1) You can run Windows, which is the #1 market place OS on any computer you want. Including Apple's.

2) You can only play iTunes, which is the #1 digital Music market place, music(without converting to MP3) on the iPod, also the #1 digital music player... Not any Digital Music Player.

I think they might get into MS a little bit more if you could only run Windows on "MS Brand Hardware". They aren't using their place as the #1 OS source, to screw people into buying "MS Brand Hardware".

I think it's a problem with Apple's mentality in the way that they do business... and now that they've got the #1 spot, and have had it for a while... make it very hard for anyone else to play. MS included.

Personaly, I'd like to see iTunes opened up to other music players. I myself have an iRiver H10, wouldn't mind buying music through iTunes.. They've got a huge library of music, but alas, I can't.

iTunes provides just ONE possible source of material for the iPod.

JUST ONE!
The iPod is in no way restricted to this.

That significant fact is pretty compplicated to understand, isn't it.

Windows, the single dominant (although hot exclusive) OS for the PC REQUIRES authenitcation and registration. Hence the EU's continuing issues with Windows (or are you unaware of those very small wrinkles?). But there are alternative OSes that you can run on the PC that do not require authenitcation nor DRM.

But I guess they should also restrict the sales of Ford sourced car parts as well, as they only fit Fords!

It has nothing to do with "Apple's mentality in the way that they do business". They offer a proprietary product. Period. As such it is their product to control - intelligently or stupidly.

I think it is hilarious that people and governments, by virtue that they decide that they or others are entitled to another's product, determine the business practices that must be followed by companies that have developed and marketed a product.

Just like with MS, if you don't like Apple's product, don't buy it. There ARE choices available!

So assume responsibility for your own purchasing CHOICES (as you certainly have them!) and quit whining about MS or Apple.

"iTunes provides just ONE possible source of material for the iPod."

You're looking at it the opposite way round.

iTunes music is only compatible with the iPod (more specifically, iTunes DRMed music).

They're not going after the iPod, but iTunes.

iTunes fails interoperability guidelines, not the iPod.

"But I guess they should also restrict the sales of Ford sourced car parts as well, as they only fit Fords!"

You can build a car yourself that uses Ford parts. You are not locked in to having to have a ford designed car.

It's about the lack of availability of licensing of the DRM method.

You don't need a license from Ford to use their parts, which makes it a significantly different scenario to iTunes+iPod.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with it.

*Edit*

Ooh, it did post.

The browser crashed when I pressed submit.

"It has nothing to do with "Apple's mentality in the way that they do business". They offer a proprietary product. Period. As such it is their product to control - intelligently or stupidly."

Having a proprietary product is fine, until you have the number one market spot, and can force the market to do what you want it to. This is why MS got in trouble, this why Intel is in trouble... This is why these sorts of things happen. Now that Apple has control of the digital music market, not to say that there aren't any other players, Apple is having to open up.

Like I said, how much s*** would happen if MS only allowed Windows to work on 'MS Hardware'. This is the same thing. If you want to use iTunes, YOU HAVE TO USE AN iPod. You have no choice. If you want to use the number one digital music store, then you have no choice.

If you want to use the number one computer operating system, then you can buy whatever hardware you want. You aren't tied to anything.

There is a difference between having to register, and authenticate your software... and not having any choice what so ever. You want iTunes, you buy and iPod.

Similar thing would happen if Apple became the dominant player in the OS market. Regulating bodies would start to look at Apple and force them to open up their OS to other hardware. This has nothing to do with 'other choices'. This has to do with who has the power to leverage the market in whatever way they want. Like Apple does with the digital music market.

This is why you always see 'iTunes+iPod'...
Never: 'iTunes'

You may not aggree with me, and thats fine. I still think iTunes should be opened up. Same goes for OS X.

You both miss the point.

The material is also available from other sources other than iTunes!

If the majority of the material available on iTunes was exclusive, that might be one thing, but its not.

The irony is that I have packed my nephews iPod with tons of material (disclaimer,: I have not formally weighed the unit! ;-) and half of the stuff i provided is not available on iTunes - or from any other online source for that matter! So I get a bit tired about the complaints.

Apple makes a proprietary product, and they choose to only sell product for that product! They are in no way oblidged to provide material for other players. No more than Sonus must make replacement toothbrush heads for electronic toothbrushes other than its own! And Ford is not oblidged to make replacement parts for any cars other than its own!

Nor does MS have to make software fr any other platform if they don't want.

Granted, we could argue strategic marketing and planning theory and debate over where such exclusivity is truly an advantage or a disadvantage - but its not our decision to make. I think Apple is stupid for not releasing OSX to run on other PCs, but hey, its their choice - however stupid I think it is. And I have a choice to make if I want to run it.

If you want those proprietary 'parts', then buy the unit that interfaces with it! If you don't perhapos you should buy something else. But in any case, you still have myriad choices.

Other vendor and distribution vectors are also seeking to distrubute exclusive material. But in any event, NO distribution company has control of the available material, especially as you can program it yourself with ripped material!

Funny, if you want to own a Ford, and you want authentic FORD parts, you must buy them from Ford dealers. But even they can source parts from other vendors, just as iPod and MP3 players can. The fact that Ford parts only work in a Ford is not a reason to restrict authentic Ford part sales.

I guess they should target MS for attempting to source exclusive material for the Zune as well?

http://arstechnica.com/n...nt-to-bolster-zune.html

Bottomline, just because iTunes is a large footprint as a source provider, iTunes controls little. You can source just about everything independently.

You aren't limited to iTunes if you own an iPod or any other player.

They are but one, albeit large online provider. Nothing stops anyone from going to Amazon or other online suppliers. let alone buying the CD and ripping the material to the player.

Bottomline: If Norway doesn't like it (or rather a few who want to dictate to all of the owners - and I can only imagine the national security issue skateboards posed...), then their loss to Apple's marketplace is moot. Its less than one large city in the US, and those folks can still download material from sites outside Norway.

But, in the end, this is Norway's problem. Who cares if they don't like it? Their citizens still have choices. Let them be responsible for making them!

Meanwhile I am trying to find a good (and very stupid)lawyer in order to sue Porsche for not making performance parts for my truck. That's an obvious limitation of my freedom as well as unfair market control. ;-)

I still stand with:

"If MS only made Windows work on MS brand hardware, there would be hell to pay. It's not that there aren't any other choices out there(linux, OSX, Solaris), but when your the dominant player, this changes things."

Agree to disagree foxfyre. =)

The point you miss is that I don't care about iTunes. It doesn't bother me if they only want to support their own player.

It doesn't bother me what they do. It doesn't bother me what MS does.

I evaluate the market,, ascertain what best meets my needs, and purchase, or don't purchase accordingly.

Every company doesn't do things the way I necessarily wish they would, OK. So what? But I don't advocate that the government force them to provide a product mix just to satisfy my particular bent.

If MS wanted to make MS branded hardware and to enable Windows to only run on it - fine. I don't have problem with that, even now. I still have a choice to determine if that would serve my needs at the price at which it is offered. Then it is my choice to buy or not, or to look at other platforms.

I may not like it, but hey, there is nothing stopping the so called myriad number of disatisfied customers from utilizing their business acumen and start a company marketing a product that will serve the masses in a better manner and becoming fabulously wealthy.

I just find it hilarious that so many think that it is legitimate for a government to tell a company what kind of product they can market - assuming that it does not harm anyone. Choice is good. And if one product doesn't suit you needs, hopefully another will.

Personally, I think a company is smart to increase their market appeal and penetration by making their product as universally applicable as is reasonably practical. Generally speaking, it makes little sense to restrict access to a product in the hopes of increasing sales.

But hey, if a company wants to do that, and the market beats a path to their door and everyone decides they want that product with its associated proprietary restrictions, so be it. It is still my choice to decide if it suits my purpose and whether I want to buy into the product and its associated restrictions or openness. Or not!

Regarding this issue, if you so deparately want iTunes (and I would seriously consider some counseling if this is the case), get an iPod and enjoy. If you hate ITunes or the iPod, select another player and compatible source and enjoy. Or, say to hell with all of them and go high-fi and sacrifice a bit of convenience for quality.

I know that everything in the universe should be compatible, work perfectly, and forever, and cost nothing...sort of like the anti-DRM crowd believes. And I get a kick out of watching so many freak as they discover reality doesn't comply with their notion of how things SHOULD be. And while they would scream even louder if someone tells them how to do things, they have no problem with the idea of imposing their will on others.

I just find it abhorant that so many want others (especially governments) to impose their desires on others in the name of freedom.

"Gee, I hate Fords, but the government should force Ford to start making official Ford parts for my Audi!" LOL!

Bravo Norway!