RSSOctober Debut for Microsoft 'iPod Killer'
By Ed Oswald | Published July 20, 2006, 3:31 PM
EXCLUSIVE Microsoft's so-called "iPod killer" could be unveiled as early as late next month, with the company preparing to build momentum towards an October launch, sources close to the situation have told BetaNews.
These latest developments indicate that Apple has only a short period of time to react before a barrage of marketing and publicity surrounds Microsoft's new device. To its defense, Apple told analysts in an earnings call Wednesday night that it "wasn't standing still."
Redmond's moves to counter the success of the iPod have also resulted in several code-names, including Argo, Pyxis, Zune, and Alexandria. Although solid information as to the actual product details is scarce, various media sources have compiled some information from sources inside and outside Microsoft.
The entire initiative falls under the name "Project Argo," and insiders believe Microsoft is working on at least two portable players. Zune, which first surfaced in June, is believed to be the iPod-like device that would include wireless connectivity in a design very reminiscent of the Apple iPod.
Sources have confirmed to BetaNews that a second player exists, known by the code-name "Pyxis." While details are scant on the player's features, it is being billed as a competitor to the iPod nano in both size and functionality, with the addition of video support. Talk of a third device has not been verified.
Finally, "Alexandria" is believed to be the service that would accompany these devices, much like the synchronous relationship between the iPod and iTunes. While some believed Microsoft and MTV's URGE service would fill this role, that is not the case. However, some analysts say Alexandria will be URGE-like in the way it operates.
In any case, movement on these fronts is likely going to happen fast over the next month, as public demonstrations and presentations are scheduled to begin the last week of August. This would be followed by another wave of presentations in the second week of September, sources said of Microsoft's plans.
The possible unveiling of the Project Argo players would come three weeks after Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference, where the company might unveil a refresh to the iPod nano lineup including multiple colors and larger capacities. But Apple isn't expected to update the main iPod until next year, opening the door for Microsoft's market entrance.
Promotional efforts for Argo will begin after the public demonstrations and continue through the launch. While specifics of the marketing campaign were not given, it's likely from past Microsoft launches that it would include a print, online, television, and outside advertising component to support the products.
People close to the situation said they were confident that Microsoft could meet its goal to have the Argo players ready in October. This would enable the company to compete with Apple during the crucial holiday shopping season.
This thread is a fanboy's dream!
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|As long as ipods and indeed *any* portable mp3 player continue to contain a in-built rechargable battery that cannot be removed or replaced cheaply by the end user, they will always not be a variable option for me.
The amount of people i know who's ipods have died after only 6 months to a year of constant use and having to go out and buy a new one is outragous.
Read up on batteries, over only a short period of time, battery cells die, end of story. This happened to me a couple of years ago with my ipod after a year of use. I was furious when i was told i would have to pay a large sum of money for the battery to be replaced and a handling fee to do or be faced with buying a new one.
It's like a high cost ipod yearly subscription!
Well anyway, i said up yours to all that and bought a Creative Zen Micro which DOES have a removable cost effective Li-ion battery (much like a mobile phone).
I've gone down from 20gb to a 6gb mp3 player but at least i know i won't be paying through the nose every year to keep my mp3 player in my life.
I've had my Creative Zen Micro for over a year and a half now with no problems what so ever, even the battery still has great charge after all this time (very little degradation) and as an additional plus, i also bought a spare battery, always charged and in my pocket to take over when i need more power on the move.
ipod killer?, i doubt it (ipods are bought on the majority for 75% looks and 25% functionality), as long as it works and looks sexy, people *LOVE* their ipods and with vanity as high as it's ever been and raising, i'm confident people will continue to buy the number one most needed electronic fashion accessory.
Ultimate mp3 player?, not if it doesn't have a removable battery it isn't.
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|Amen.
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|maybe you should google how to take care of batteries. just an idea.
i've had an ipod since the first month or so of the click wheel coming out and i've had absolutely no problems. i use it EVERY day on my way to work, at work and on my way home. i use it for music and data because i transfer files from home to work and back constantly.
my battery still has a ton of juice. enough to drive from LA to Vegas and back on one charge.
my ipod isn't all scratched up either. maybe people should learn how to take care of their investments before b****ing about them.
if apple releases a full screen with touch screen soon i'm going to buy that too. you know why? not because I'm a fanboy (i dare you to use that excuse)... but because i can take care of my property.
ciao
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|Well ain't you a lucky boy then, i very doubt all my friends suffered from the same problem just because they don't know how to look after their batties.
I personally do know how to look after batteries thank you very much.
I am not a moron you fanboy twat.
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|"ipod killer?, i doubt it (ipods are bought on the majority for 75% looks and 25% functionality)."
I have to agree with you on that. Owning an ipod is not about the function but the stley and cool factor. A new device with heavy marketing is what it will take to compete. The technology should be better but it does not necessariy have to be top of the line. I think Zen and iRiver types will carve a niche in the high end player market or die soon.
see more at http://www.zunemax.com
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|Finally, a legitimate competition to the IPOD. I believe this will be the first real shot at harnessing the high cost Apple device.
Apple has held a quasi-monopoly over the past few years, and according to their financials, the IPOD has practically revived the diminishing company.
There are other MP3 players out there, but Zune will be more formidable, even if it's solely because of the company's name. Take the Xbox for example and what it did to the Playstation.
The Xbox market share may not be where the Playstation is, but you know, the price certainly has come down. And, more $$ is being pumped into R&D consistently improve their products and deliver a better gaming experience to consumers -- competitive advantage.
So, let the price war begin!
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|The price has come down??? Let me get you the phone number for the Sony CEO so you can explain that thinking to him. ;o)
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|I recall reading a few months ago that Microsoft holds the patent for parts of the user interface (UI)currently used by Apple for the iPod which means it (Microsoft) should be able to use the same interface if it wishes to. I also read that Microsoft had more than 24 engineers from Transmeta Corporation (TMTA)working on projects. TMTA specialize in software-based microprocessors, which deliver a balance of low-power consumption, high performance, low cost and small size suited for diverse computing platforms. I'm waitting to see what Microsoft will bring to the table.
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|Oh.. Who remembers when the iPod was only availible to MAC users.. How popular was it than?
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|It really wasn't a major factor until Apple ported iTunes (and its Music Store) to Windows.
It's amazing how many people just don't understand iTMS' role in the iPod's success.
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|I wouldn't classify this as an 'iPod Killer'...more along the lines of a Creative/iRiver Killer.
When its all said and done, it's not an iPod, and it won't sell like an iPod. It might make a slight dent in iPod sales, but more likely it will simply kill off all these little secondary Windows/WMP-centric players. Even moreso that Microsoft will be developing something new instead of using PlaysForSure, which I'm sure all these manufacturers are *thrilled* about.
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|Bingo. Someone gets it.
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|An ipod killer would have to have a modular design, so as to encourage inovation.
Anyone should be able to write plugins for codecs, skins and functionallity etc.
Imagine a PSP style device which could be modified/upgraded/changed legally with the support of the company that made it.
Make it a platform for new ideas.
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|That's a geek device, not a mass market device.
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|That's a geek device, not a mass market device.
How many ring tones and downloadable pictures do people have on their cell phones, and how many more get downloaded every day? A simple "add skin," in the music transfer program would easily work.
You may want to re-think that statement.
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|The price must be good
The battery life must be good
The sound must be good
It must support WMA and MP3 (better if MP4 and other too)
It must have the good voice recorder
if all is exist, yes this can be ipod killer. if not it maybe NOT
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|Yes and no. Everything you've listed is fundamental (except maybe a voice recorder), but none of those are enough to kill the iPod.
Try a design and interface that's somehow simpler and at least as intuitive as the iPod's, combined with a music store as cheap and as well-stocked as the iTunes Music Store.
The problem with Microsoft is that they consistently fall short in UI and aesthetic design. I sense clunkiness ahead.
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|The problem is Microsoft itself: As already did several times, they could release a crappy useless DRM infected player with a great marketing propaganda and win market share with a clearly inferior product. It happenned multiple times already. I like competition and I hope Microsoft release a good product, but that's difficult
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|This has been a long argument and I to make my points quick
>Crap-a-soft
>Microsux
>Greedy
>Empire
>Evil Corporation
Your intelligence and diversity is quite, "admirable" simply making petty insults doesnt make us back off it only makes us laugh at you (hahaha) but we can be harsh but some of us do want to see the downfall of our favorite companies rivals, say I support Microsoft and am Glad to see the impending fall of Sony from the PS3, as for Apple, they offend me in the same way as that one guy who dreamed of creating an idealistic race of superhumans who will dominate all others, oh yeah hitler. this case just with computers. I am still hoping for the Xbox live connection rumor and for games from the Arcade. in the Mp3 market those with low prices win fo the same product level. this "Ipod Killer" will just be someting with more features to reduce the menial tasks that come with other devices Its truly not meant to bankrupt Apple (only in my dreams, where the apple lovers shove their precious Nanos up their a** wrap a Mac cord around their neck and jump off their parents roof. and shut up. just a thought) my point is... well i got lost in the rant so I guess i was geting at how uptight a******s need to shut up and let the other consumers make their own choices. im not a techno freak so all I want is something that works, runs well, and doesnt BREAK. and dont try to call me uneducated, because I dont know about the smaller specs and know every program in the world, I am able to ignore you if I choose. I say buy the device that you like, if you want something new buy the zune, for efficiency Irver/creative/ and fo smaller migratory land mammals get the Ipod.
I have just one last piece of input, who puts an Mp3 player in a s*** pocket when most pants can hold 3 Kittens and still be comfortable.
Sportom Protiv Droge!
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|What's sad is that you (EvilJawa) are being so overly biased and hateful that you're discrediting Apple and Sony for what they've really done. The man behind Microsoft isn't nearly as stuck up about his company as you are. In fact, he'll tell you all about how Apple has done a great job and he'll credit them with all sorts of great stuff.
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|LOL! Yeah, I'm a Saint Bill fanboy, too.
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|I recently bought a music player for about $200. It's a tad large, but it's got a 14" LCD on it and can store upwards to 40GB of music, movies, TV shows, you name it.
I can even upgrade the storage limit any time I want!
It's awesome, I tell you. I hear they're selling new for over $600 Dollars.
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|Well done in purchasing your laptop.
I need a new one... :(
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|No Fair, I want one!!!!
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|No, I need a new one, mine only will hold 4GB of music and movies :(
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|Upgrade the hard drive, man... ;)
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|Hop on eBay.
type in "laptop"
Good 2 go.
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|Betcha it has built-in speakers too, huh? ;-)
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|Damn straight.
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|Not worth it, only 10 minutes of battery life as it is :P
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|Bought Sandisk 1G from Amazon..cool as cucumber ....less than half a price and does all you need. With technology advancements I will strongly suggest forget about Apple and Microsoft. You can get much better things at much better price. You just need to know how to look for them.
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|who needs this ANOTHER Crap-a-soft product ?!
Do you have viruses in your MP3 player ? NOT YET ?!
BTW, Where is that Ultra-mobile PC, that announced this spring ?NOBODY WANTS THIS CRAP
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|Quit whining like a little girl. If you don't want one don't buy one, and let other people make their own choice. Using childish names like crap-a-soft or crapple doesn't help you much either, it just makes you sound stupid.
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|Especially since "crap-a-soft" could be used for just about any software company whose name is 3 syllables, ending in "-soft".
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|Crap-a-soft product? ohh geez we have another linsuck fan here. let's look at the track record here shall we, take let's ay PDAs, while windows mobile keeps getting better and better all Linux pdas (namely 1 sony pda) where big clunky, steaming pile of s***. In terms of harware microsoft has rarely produced a bad egg. You are just a fan boy of apple. take a damn reality pill
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|This will succeed because the record companies want it to. They don't want 70% of the MP3 market in Apple's greedy hands and will help several players cut into Apple's dominance over the next five years. Watch as Apple's download shares go down and down, just like IE vs. Firefox.
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|GO MICROSOFT.....the only people that give apple so much hype are people that wanna be different and think they are so "elite".....i have an ipod but its a piece of crap...it physically looks cool but the interface is extremely basic and its slow...........im stoked to see what microsoft comes out with...hopefully its noteworthy
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|I agree, iPods, along with every other Apple product, are overpriced junk. But what keeps the Creative players from being iPod killers? I have one, they're absolutely awesome.
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|Not enough marketing to the general populace of barely computer-literate people. No real marketing at all, I've never seen a commercial for a Creative product outside of PC mags.
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|exactly all marketing
it's good when a good company markets a good product, bad when a good company doesn't market a good product and bad when a bad company markets a bad product
an example of the last is of course the Mac. You gotta love those "TRUTH" style commercials huh?
I personally like Iriver. I believe they were the ones to champion the idea of immense play time out of the least amount of battery usage
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|How about ease of use? I think the iPod excels with itunes and how easily it is for the two to sync.
I had a creative player and it was up to me to sync it. I think there are better solutions out there now, but name one that is as seamless and easy to use as itunes and the ipod.
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|Yeah, but that is not always a bad thing. The reason Creative makes some of the best players is because the customers that they have are looking for one thing; sound quality. If they were to start real heavy duty mass production along the lines of Apple or iRiver even, the quality of the product would degrade.
Look at it like your favourite home cooked meal. As soon as it is packaged, mass-produced and sent out on the market, it's quality will degrade so that it can appeal to a larger market.
Creative can keep their quality up by keeping their products *relativly* below the radar (not to mention their pricing). Now, if the audio players were their ONLY product, then I would worry. But they are still raking in millions off of their audio cards, which btw, they are 2nd or 3rd in the industry in sales. I think only RealTek and someone else (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is beating them.
~dnc
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|Um, any player that supports PlaysForSure technology? You plug it into your Windows PC, fire up WMP and do an auto-sync. (Not that I support or endorse WMP, but for a library tool, it's actually pretty good. I have yet to find another library tool on the market that easily auto-tags from the internet as easily as WMP can).
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|That's weird; how does owning an iPod make you different? Surely it makes you the same as everyone else!
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|You turn to Creative for sound quality?
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|Ease of use, yeah right lol.
Is it too hard to drag and drop files on your player?
iTunes is useless.
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|We ARE talking about people that need an industrial strength search engine for their own computers.
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|Trust me, it beats realtek.
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|He didn't say it actually makes you different, just that its target audience wants to be. Truthfully, everyone wants to be different, to be special; some are just gullible enough to think their choice of mp3 player or OS actually acheives this.
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|What does the press refer to this as an ipod "killer" and not just another competitor?
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|Because if you say 'iPod killer', Apple fans will descend on your site like a swarm of locust, call you names, question the morals of your sister and increase your hit rate. Ask Dvorak; he makes a living out of it.
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|iPod, here we come, and we will claim victory over your ass.
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|The only iPod killer is the iPod itself.
I can't beleive they are even as popular as they are. I have had some SERIOUS problems with my (nano 4 gb black, 20 gig, 20 gig color, mini 4 gig) iPods. Yeah, customer service is a joke too. "Hi, I bought your iPod about 4 months ago and the battery life is now about 2 hours. Can I get that fixed please." "Sir, since it has been over the first 3 months, we will have to charge yo $30 to ship the iPod to the company. Then, if we examine it and see that the battery is fine, we will charge you $100 for a diagnosis of the player. If we see that the battery does need replacing, we will charge you $60 to replace it." "oh, that's all? So, my 1 year warranty doesn't really do all that much, huh?" My most recent purchase, the Nano, was the worst of the bunch. A few weeks into owning it, screen broke and "bled" all across the monitor. Yeah, spent 4 weeks trying to get a replacement. Finally got one, and it was a refurb with scratches already on it...I had mine in a case, it was PERFECT when I sent it out. Way to go Mac....yeah!!! LOL...makes me want to get a new Mac computer this afternoon....NOT....
Thank God for microsoft. Maybe they'll actually give Apple some incentive to make something good.
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|Then you have to ask yourself why you are continuously supporting them if your find their products have problem and service is terrible. Shame on you.
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|"I hate iPods, so I bought 4 of them."
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|Who said I bought all of them?
Bachisanerd: "I have no friends; no one that ever gives me anything. So everyone else must have bought their own iPods too."
Way to think "outside the box." Typical Mac Lemming for you. Defend the label at all cost, don't let the features/product defend itself.
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|""I hate iPods, so I bought 4 of them."
hahahahaha
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|Yes, because it's totally common to continually receive iPods as gifts, especially when you apparently hate them.
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|It is about time Microsoft stepped in and raised a little hell!
Can't wait for Zune, join out forum at miniplayer.info and talk about it!
http://www.miniplayer.info
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|Why not just buy one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1G-1...839QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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|pfffft!
No FLAC support?
How old-school....
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|Wake up and smell the Marketing Hype people.
Anything an iPod or any other mp3 player can do, a pocket pc can do, but your MP3 player can't do what my pocket pc can do.
3rd party applications for just about any conceivable need, mobile computing, E-mail, not stuck to a proprietary codec or standard when the mp3 is no longer the codec of choice, voice recording, WiFi, Blue tooth, PCMCIA slot, GPS, Flash Card memory slot, and some are cell phones too! And you can pick up pocket PC's for about the same price depending on features.
In 2 years you'll be trying to sell you iPods on ebay and get about as good of a result as you would trying to sell a mini disk player today. Worse because the market will be flooded.
I see iPod Chunking contests sprouting up all over the country...lol.
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|Specialized devices, by definition, are a niche product. Anyone will tell you this. MP3 players go on living because they do one thing and do it well.
My Smartphone (running Windows Mobile) is an MP3 player too, but the sound quality sucks. Same goes for most pocket PCs. They are versatile in that they can do a number of things, but if you want them to do everything and do it well, it's going to cost and arm and a leg. And quite frankly, there's nothing out there that does that yet, because the manufacturers know it won't sell.
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|Definition of niche - "A focused, targetable part of a market."
Niche? The iPod is marketed just about every demographic group out there age 10 to 45, M or F, that can hear, watch a TV, pick up a Magazine, and most importantly follow like a lemming. Hardly focused.
All they did was market the ish out of it and create hype for their product across the board. (Which is the function of the marketing and and promotions departments at Apple.)
If there is a niche for the product, it may be the user that wants an audio device only, (and not because some marketing campaign said their product was magically better quality with no product comparisons.) But that's a very slim % of those that are buying it.
If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow. They already have 2 or 3 devices on there person at all times to accomplish these functions.
A properly marketed "all in one," would blow any mp3 player out of the mass market.
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|You are clearly a marketing douche from redmond...hired by them to propogate their mediocrity.. booo..
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|"If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow."
you are sadly mistaken. the market proves it. when i want to listen to music, i grab an ipod. not my treo, not my pocket pc. they may have the same mp3 function, but they disappoint in portability, usability and sound quality.
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|If there is a niche for the product, it may be the user that wants an audio device only
How perceptive. That might have been *exactly* what I was saying in the comment you replied to.
If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow.
Umm... you did you read the post you replied to, right? Like I said, those devices are already out. The drawback to them is that they can't provide all of their features with as much quality as a specialized device can.
That's why MP3 players are still around. All people want is something that will play music (and now video, but audio is the focus) with great audio quality. An "all-in-one" can't deliver that; not for a competitive price, anyway. That's why they haven't killed the iPod yet.
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|Or you have been brainwashed…lol.
Obviously you subscribe to the "must have multiple devices that serve the same purpose," line of thinking. You admittedly own TWO PDA's which overlap a majority of function with each other.
A pda is no less portable than an iPod. How can you believe that? They weigh the same and have the same basic dimensions. You can purchase cradles, wallets, portfolios, straps, and hangers for each of them. It's a wash at best, there’s no winner on either side.
Don't be a lemming
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|lol
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|Take an iAudio X5 for a walk.
You'll drop the iPod so fast it's screen won't even have time to scratch.
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|How perceptive. That might have been *exactly* what I was saying in the comment you replied to.
These people are not purchacing any iPod out there. Is there a niche, yes. I don't dispute that. But that niche that is looking for ultra high quality is NOT buying just a middle of the road device that's been marketed good. They will do research to find the highest quality device they can get.
MP3 players have been out for years longer than the current iPod craze. They were never this popular until the iPod put a commercial on every channel at every commercial break.
The iPod does NOT cater to your "niche," market. Pure and simple.
"The drawback to them is that they can't provide all of their features with as much quality as a specialized device can."
What are you basing quality on? RMS wattage? Frequency response? Noise ratio? Or what people "perceive," as quality audio? The old Awia stereos "sounded" great, but their Spec's sucked.
For every over hyped device that is a specialized portable audio player a multifunction device can be produced with similar audio quality specifications.
All people want is something that will play music with great audio quality.
People? I though it was a Niche market?
How may high school and college students with iPods have them because of "audio quality?" The same amount that have a Cell Phone glued to their heads and text 50 messages a day, because they want to let Mom and Dad know where they are at all times. The only clue about quality of anything that they have, is what the collective “they,” told them. And the 20-25yo crowd isn’t much different. What % of iPod owners is that? 50%? Nice niche market you’ve got going there.
"People," are carrying around a PDA, a Cell Phone, an MP3 player and sometimes a GPS at the same time. All "people," really NEED is an all in one device, but what they WANT is an iPod because of marketing. Plain and simple.
"An "all-in-one" can't deliver that; not for a competitive price, anyway
You cannot compare price of a device that does one thing well, to the cost of a device that does multiple things well.
Add up the cost of an average mp3 player, an average pda, an average cell phone, and an average GPS unit. That's a heck of a lot of quid to play with! I paid $400 for my PDA and it does just as good of a job playing mp3’s and video as a comparable iPod.
Look past the social moray that the iPod has created, do a little research, and brave the intelligent choice instead of the popular choice.
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|You do not listen. I give up.
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|Hello pot, The kettle returned your call!
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|Kettle Blacksmith?
That Traitorous bas****.
Almost as bad as Loki. ;)
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|" I paid $400 for my PDA and it does just as good of a job playing mp3’s and video as a comparable iPod."
lol
ok, you believe that
:-p
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|Why does the kettle care about drugs? It's not like he can smoke any.
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|No-one else has seen Erik The Viking?
Wincement, I'm ashamed of you. You should have gotten that one.
Check it out. Got a few of the guys from Monty Python in there, and the "cloak-invisible" scenes rock.
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|I'm a techno-slut. I like carrying my treo, my pocket pc, my nomad and my laptop. In fact, I use them all at the same time too! Many times to listen to multiple songs all at the same time! I'm bad... someone spank me with an iPod.
;-)
This thread is gettin' outta control!
~dnc
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|Wincement, I'm ashamed of you. You should have gotten that one.
Sorry =/
I am now ashamed of myself. I didn't even know I needed to be before. =(
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|Yes...lets go buy an MP3 player that costs more than the iPod that only offers up to 1/3 the storage space of an iPod! Wait, what's this, I need yet another program on my computer to transfer files to it?! Oh, and I have to be running Mac OS or Linux!?!?
No thanks. Something about buying a product that is fairly advanced from an unknown company with little history and no public financial reports just doesn't make me feel right...
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|I'm sorry. I don't normally resort to this, but you are dumb.
Where did you get the "costs more than the iPod" data? Take a look:
http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16855603828
Now, please tell us where you found a 60GB iPod with video for under $345. We're all dying to know.
Wait, what's this, I need yet another program on my computer to transfer files to it?!
Um... you have to load iTunes to use the iPod, correct?
Oh, and I have to be running Mac OS or Linux!?!?
Of course it supports Windows, genius. It just also happens to support more OSes than any other audio player.
No thanks. Something about buying a product that is fairly advanced from an unknown company with little history and no public financial reports just doesn't make me feel right...
Stop it. You're killing me. No one can be that ignorant. Try not to be a sheep, k?
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|Buy somthing from Microsux instead of Apple? Nope!
...game over.
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|...well that was easy.
I wonder why everybody doesn't see it that way. They'd save a lot of trouble if they did.
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|That's a great attitude and I'm sure Apple would love more customers like you.
It's foolish and ignorant to decide not to buy something just because of who makes it. I was always against the iPod - not so much because it was Apple, but because they restricted you to using iTunes. When my other mp3 player broke, I decided I'd give it a shot and have been very happy.
And I didn't buy it because it's Apple - I bought it because it was the best thing that met my needs.
I'm very interested to see what Microsoft has to offer. I don't think anything will be an ipod killer, but if they can offer an ipod like device, only better, why not look at it and get it? In turn, that will just cause apple to make something better.
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|"Microsux", ooh, how brilliant, and adds so much credence to your argument. Too bad Apple didn't actually call themselves Macintosh, because then I could call them Markentosh or Markuptosh and sound just as smart and unbiased as you.
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|I hate ipods and I do NOT have one... lol
I have a modded PSP well I did all the modding...
I can Play anything Audio/Vedio any format, PSP games, and other systems games like: GB, GBA, DS, nintendo, SNES, TG16, and more...
Plus I have WIFI, IR, Storage cards, UMD drive for original games and movies...
Oh, Almost forgot, I can have it on for 16 hours and still have over 30% battery left...
Beat that IPOD... I do have other Japan Only toys. so I will not list them here... Damn its good to travel...
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|The problem (besides your obvious personality defects) is you aren't even clever enough to come up with Crapple Apple.
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|Sorry, I wasn't aware my personality defects were so obvious through a few sentences. Besides, I was trying to go for an analogy of "microsux" in that it is a simple modification of the original word, not a rhyme; but apparently you are not clever enough to realise that. Of course, I could always cause the blindly zealotrous mac fanboys "Appholes".
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|I remember when Atari was king of consoles. Then Nintendo, and then Sony. Now Sony is at risk of losing the title to XBOX360.
History shows, no matter how much a perceived stronghold a company might have, it can be taken away.
Music players are no different. Remember the "Walkman"? I am not backing either one as I have no need for a portable player. But never assume one to reign supreme forever.
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|Exactly!
So based on your logic we're all just a waiting for M$'s strangle hold on the desktop to end.
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|Using M$ instead of MS is just childish.. but I'll ignore that for now.
What people never seem to grasp is that having 1 majority desktop OS and applications (XP and Office) can be a very good thing. When employees leave a company and go to another, guess what? They likely know all the basic software they'll be using at that new company.
Imagine if you will a world where there are as many desktop OS's as there are desktops to choose from. Then add in different productivity apps to each of those. Someone changing companies once a year for 5 years might have to learn a new OS at each of those new companies.
This would hurt productivity, increase businesses costs and in some cases make it harder for someone to find a job.
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|""What people never seem to grasp is that having 1 majority desktop OS and applications (XP and Office) can be a very good thing. ""
You logic make sense, but w/o competitions, there will be no improvement. Just look at all those regulated monoploy. They are poorly run, and if it's a free market, they will be cease to exist long again.
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|I agree and I think it's good that they have "some" competition. But it's also probably good that there isn't more.
Think of it this way - what if all cars ran on different fuel? That would be a nightmare, wouldn't it? As we see today, oil companies (Exxon, Shell..etc) have a monopoly in a way. There is certainly limited competition - and look at their profits!
And I think Microsoft certainly treats customers far better than the oil companies do.
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|Very true about having multiple operating systems. It would increase the learning curve for all these people who haven't caught on to using a computer.
On the flip side, Mac Os X is a much more stable operating system than Windows. They are both suited to dominate the market, however, Microsoft has the advantage of familiarity with most people which is making it difficult for Apple to gain a larger share. Though Gates has said that he knows he's made mistakes with Windows and he hopes to fix those mistakes, I, for one, am doubtful of whether this will ever really happen. The way Windows is developed just lends itself to a poor outcome.
This has translated over to some of their other products as well, but not all. The success of this new Audio segment of Microsoft will greatly depend on whether Microsoft is repeating history with a buggy product or introducing a new side of Microsoft with well done products.
We'll just have to wait and see!
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|"Using M$ instead of MS is just childish.. but I'll ignore that for now."
Nah, that's just a softie spread rumor. Personally, I'm a big fan of descriptive spelling.
M$ describes a greed based company. Get over it!
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|Yeah? Wait til you see the Vista pricing scheme!
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|It could also just imply a rich successful company, with a very generous founder. So I guess it does work. ;)
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|What would be cool is if they made a Pocket PC Media Center Edition but with 60gb of space. I think that would be cool.
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|Wow what a surprise, the usual comments from a bunch of Apple zealots. Innovation this, nicer look that. Whatever. People mostly buy iPods not because they're better than other players (why the hell would I want to stick with proprietary garbage and drm) but because Apple got the lead from the beginning and it's somehow cool to own what ignorants call iPods (when they're talking about any mp3 player).
"The iPod is the standard. MS is too late to the party---they have no chance."
Ignorant remark, Were other car makers "too late" after the Ford model T became "the standard"?
"My 4GB Nano has 834 tunes on it, and I wouldn't trade it for any other player."
I bet you didnt try many others, or none at all. Or maybe crap, because there's a bunch of great players out there. It must be better to stay a blind fanatic...
"Oh and p.s. innovate? What? They don't know what it means because all they have ever spent their energy on is psychotically trying to control a market they got in the first place with marketing and adevertising dollars..."
You know, Apple was there in the beginning and very strong, they screwed themselves many times so stop whining.
"Creative still puts out the best SOUNDING players. (Before everyone flames me, look at the sound decibels and audio ranges between a Nomad Zen NX and any of the iPods)."
Exactly, good point. But for most kids quality is the least of their concern. Hey, they look cool because they own the same thing their friends already have! I think targeting young adults is a good idea.
"I think the key to overcoming the ipod is to design a more simple and easier to use software then iTunes. I installed WMP 11 Beta and it's still confusing. iTunes has me hooked to the iPod."
Wow, I wonder why anyone would use WMP. It always sucked and it's not like anyone forced you to use it. Besides, what's the point with managing music with something like iTunes?
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|Don't hold back man... Say what you really feel ROFL.
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|"People mostly buy iPods not because they're better than other players (why the hell would I want to stick with proprietary garbage and drm) but because Apple got the lead from the beginning and it's somehow cool to own what ignorants call iPods (when they're talking about any mp3 player)."
Um, no. Apple was late to the party. MP3 players had been available for years prior to the iPod's launch--and those first iPods only worked with Macs.
Why is it so difficult for people to admit that Apple created a reliable, simple to use player, backed it up with a well-designed music player/music store, and then let it stand out on its own in a market of clones?
Apple did not become the #1 PMP vendor by being there first, they did it by being the best. Of course, against the likes of Creative, that's not saying much...
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|Use Winamp instead.
Or any selection of other non-bloated software that has now got built in syncing functionality.
Unfortunatley, just as Windows rules the world, iPods rule the world because everything is built for it and around it.
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|Really which mp3 player is better then ipod and what makes it better? it has a fm tuner? It has voice recording capability? uh ok. You seem to just hate a successful product for some odd reason. I have owned an ipod for a few years now. NO it is not the only mp3 player I ever used, I had a creative nomad player back in 2001. If creatives mp3 players are so great then why are they loosing their s***?
People stick with ipod and apple because they love them, there are alternatives and someone is buying them but only what 20 percent of the market?
I have owned rio's and even cd players and nothing holds a candle to apple's product. I use it because I like it and not for any other reason, im not the "I want to be cool so lets get an ipod" kind of guy.
As for itunes, I think its the easiest to use music file mangement software out there the store is even easier to use. I have tried windows media player and well being its windows standard its required for play streaming video etc, its not going anywhere so who gives a crap if people use itunes? Could I use something else, sure but its nice and I like it.
so what the heck exactly is your rant about? You don't like the ipod or apple even?
Microsoft has more money then they know what to do with and well of course they have to try to find yet another market to concentrate on other then Windows, which should be their primary concern and of course due to lack of real competition, they don't have to concentrate on it. But yet again they want to "dominate" a market and loose their s*** oh wait, their s*** is made of gold and diamonds so I dont think it will be going anywhere. Microsoft is idiotic, they can't watch another product be successful even if it has nothing to do with them. I see microsoft putting out washers and dryers soon. Why would they put out a xbox when their primary product is a home computer and a xbox will compete directly with it? Didn't they just shoot themselves in the foot? Not to mention xbox 360 is a big black hole if they weren't so successful doing windows they would be out of existence as no other product they have has ever been a market leader or cash cow without a whole lot of money behind it to throw away. They will try to use this cash they have to force themselves into the market. Heck they won't be able to beat ipod so I have no doubt they will try to "buy it" as they do everything else.
So just to prove my point, what products does microsoft have that makes money, uh office and windows, thats about it. Everything else sucks and actually looses money, that includes everything from their antivirus software "service" to xbox 360. I am a computer gamer and it's sad to see microsoft slap their windows user in the face with that.
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|F-off icehole, spout you PC/anti-Apple nonsense somwhere else.
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|LOL
I think you are one of the "Apple zealots" he was referring to.
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|""Apple did not become the #1 PMP vendor by being there first, they did it by being the best. Of course, against the likes of Creative, that's not saying much... ""
No, they are not the best, have you see how much money they do with marketing campaign and who their target audiences are? Have you see other companies promoting their MP3 like Apple does? I didn't. They got to this position because of their marketing strategy, and it does work by targeting young adult, and promote it's cool to onw iPod. Is iPod the best players, no? Apple innovated with iPod video? No, IRiver had them long before iPod craze began.
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|lmao Simon... excellent points! (and the only reason I have kept my 30GB Creative Zen Xtra NX is because of the 96db snr! Also, the fact that it can support lossless WMA encoding).
I do agree with you about the kiddies though. It's not the quality of a product, it's how cool it will make them.
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|GCoder has always been on Apple's side. I often wonder if Apple is more of a cult as opposed to a company... ;-)
~dnc
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|EXACTLY! Apple pours more money into their iPod marketing then they ever have for any of their desktop/laptop systems. When was the last time you saw an iRiver commercial? Or an iPod commercial or advert that wasn't targeted at the dancing 21 year old? You won't, these things won't happen because the people that are attracted to iPods and make up at least 60% of the iPod market are 14~24 year olds.
As for Creative bashing... yeah, the company sucks. But, they do one thing and they do it well. They make outstanding products for sound reproduction. Period. They are not a MSFT that tries to break into every market and they are not an Apple trying to get in on the WOW factor. The players that Creative has put always do one thing, they play music (and up until recent market pressure, video). they are not a music player that has a calendar and a contact book, etc... The people (like myself) that buy Creative players buy them for one reason, music reproduced as closely to how it was recorded as possible and we are also the people that MSFT and Apple will never be able to touch.
~dnc
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|Here it is kiddies. The perfect example of an Apple zealot in its natural habitat. Notice how it takes offense to the slightest proof that his beloved Apple Cult isn't all it's marketed to be.
Scientists have often speculated as to what causes this volatile behavior but have yet to find the source.
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|Apple = Scientology?
*evil grin*
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|Nah, scientology makes more sense :)
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|Yeah. We're actually not one entity, mut millions of dead ones all bound and trapped as 'humans'.
Yeah...that makes sense.
Uhh....
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|I was kind of joking
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|So was I.
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|His rant was in response to a bunch of other posts. Yours was no better.
You had a creative player 5 years ago, and it is not a good as your current one? Hmm, I wonder why that is? As far a music file management software, I have to admit I have only used Windows Media Player, because it already does everything I need it to.
"there are alternatives and someone is buying them but only what 20 percent of the market?"
20% is not bad, especially considering how little the alternative advertise...and assuming you didn't pull that number out from somewhere I probably can't mention here, does that figure take into account multifunction devices like pdas and cellphones?
"of course they have to try to find yet another market to concentrate on other then Windows, which should be their primary concern"
It surprises me how few people haven't heard of the Mythical Man Month. In case you haven't, here is its point, "too many cooks spoil the broth". Throwing more people at a problem in the software world is just as bad, and often worse, than not enough. Yet you are saying they should have every programmer they employ working on Windows. Oh that will make things so much better.
"their primary product is a home computer and a xbox will compete directly with it"
Contrary to your opinion, consoles do not compete with home computers. They are mainly purchased by people who would rather just play games, using a control pad, than have to worry about feeling they have to upgrade a PC every 6 months to play the newest games.
"they can't watch another product be successful even if it has nothing to do with them"
Actually, MS kept itself out of the mp3 player market for years hoping their business partners could get it right.
As with all things new, especially at MS, the first attempts are less efficient. Yes, the xbox has been a black hole. Internet Explorer used to be really crappy, but it got better. Firefox has surpassed it now, but IE did surpas Netscape.
All this proves is competition is good. The xBox black hole is shrinking. Now that Firefox has come along, it seems to have reminded MS that there is still more can be done with a browser.
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|So it's Apple's fault its competition doesn't market?
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|Nah. You didn't get it!
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|BetaNews is amazing. Whether or not a products market share and stock price are related to the quality of the product depends on whether or not the writer is a fanboy of the product. The comment above is an example of the ABA (anything but Apple) camp. If this were a discussion about Apple OS, the same type would state that Microsoft's market share clearly shows they have the best OS.
Same goes for the ABM folks, too. If it weren't so obvious, it might be funny.
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|While there is quite a bit of truth to your statements there is a caveat. I can't recall ever seeing "Microsoft's market share clearly shows they have the best OS." I mainly see debates on how much MacOS's lack of market share affects its security. But I have to admit, my view might be slanted, all the blind mac zealots I have encountered have made me an ABA, and the linux zeaots are dangerously close to pushing me to a MS only camp...and I liked BeOS.
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|You still just wonder? ;)
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|"my view might be slanted"
'nuf said.
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|Well good for them! Now at least Apple might actually make their ipod lines cheaper. Plus if Apple made it so you could use the ipods without itunes right out of the box they'd be #1. All because of itunes, you can't even use your ipod playlist on multiple machines without wiping them out. All it says is that your playlist is on another machine even though its stored right on the ipod. So if you want your to use your ipod like a standard mp3 player.
Its not a bad thing that microsoft is in the mp3 player market. you know damn sure it would be open to having your player create a drive like a USB flash drive and then you just add the files to it through explorer.
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|MSFT already supports this for many 3rd party players with the "PlaysForSure" technology.
Also, Creative supports this now with the newer firmwares. Walk up to any Windows XP PC and attach your player and you can access your music collection, add to, remove from, etc. Let's see any iPod do that without some freeware app needed.
~dnc
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|PUHleaze. The iPod is the standard. MS is too late to the party---they have no chance.
My 4GB Nano has 834 tunes on it, and I wouldn't trade it for any other player.
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|I have a 60gb iPod. I am interested in seeing Microsoft's offering, but I really need a larger drive than 30gb.
If Apple would open up it's iPod to allow me to use Windows Media Player to sync my iPod, I would be happy. I don't manage my library with iTunes, and I don't like having to use iTunes to sync up my iPod.
I love the iPod. I just don't like being forced to use iTunes.
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|Try iAudio's X5 60gb. Same amount of space with a crapload more features and is cheaper than the 60gb iPod. They don't force you to use specific software, you don't need any software for that matter. It's USB Mass Storage compatible; so just plug it in and XP will reconized it as a 60gb hard drive. Drag your music to the "Music" folder and that's it.
My favorite feature is that it supports Ogg and Flac.
You can find one at newegg.com.
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|"I just don't like being forced to use iTunes."
So download the latest version of Winamp and enable iPod/PMP support when you install it.
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|I got my wife the X5... beautiful device. When they released it, I was hoping it would get a bigger push than it did.
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|I've had mixed results with the Winamp plugin, and I'm not a big Winamp fan.
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|X5 = yummy.
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|Oh please, don't keep us in suspense...tell us what you are a fan of??? Would it be complaining, or just b!tching?
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|competition = mmmmmmm....good.
Now, let's hope they actually DO something with the product.
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|Troll.
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|awwwwwww....
Now we can add whining to the list
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|The Zune 30gb will be the same price as a 5G iPod 60gb. What's wrong with is picture? Isn't Apple the one that's supposed have the overpriced products? You know the world is going to sh!t when Apple has the cheaper product.
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|The Zune will have a larger initial feature set then the 5G iPod, hence the higher cost.
~dnc
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|OK, Vista delayed but iPOd killer on time. Guess we know where MS' priority is at.
Oh and p.s. innovate? What? They don't know what it means because all they have ever spent their energy on is psychotically trying to control a market they got in the first place with marketing and adevertising dollars...
Buch of winners these guys are. And to think we hail this a great factor of our economy.
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|MS RULES! YEAH BABY! LOL
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|LOL@sarcasm
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|Can you imagine the s*** pocket you'd need for Origami?
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|Microsoft needs to quit counting its cash and start leading the way with new innovations, versus copying existing technology and attempting to wrap it in a nicer package!
Cause Microsoft sucks at it!
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|quote - copying existing technology and attempting to wrap it in a nicer package! - quote
kinda like what apple is doing with the intel chips right ???
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|"Touche!"
Get it?
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|lol ....
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|well yes, but there actually was a valid point - counter-point exchange in this case D:
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|Um, no Apple isn't copying exsting technology, they're using it.
nicer package, yes.
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|Microsoft aren't copying the iPod, they're using it as an example.
Idiot.
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|Um...
Touche?
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|rofl...
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|lmao
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|ipod killer phrase is way over used by the media.
Now if Microsoft wants to take market share give this thing features that would appeal to teens like a 1-2 megapixel camera(doesn't have to be the greatest quality just look at the crappy ones they put in camera phones and kids love them) and since i hear this thing is supposed to have wifi learn from Nintendo and allow users to connect with each other chat share files(expet DRM music but maybe allow streaming for that so every one can listen) plus a few web surfing programs.
Microsoft also needs to sell these things at or near cost to make.
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|I dont consider Microsoft the evil empire, but Im afraid Apple has its goat here. Not gonna make any difference. Ipods are cool, and the people who buy them LIKE COOL. Just another media player. Too late.
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|Where did this "people buy iPods because they're pretty" meme come from, and why does it persist?
People buy iPods because they're easy to use and because the iTunes Music Store is the best of its kind. This of course spawns a bunch of internet geek complaints about repeat iPod sales coming from people who are locked in, when really, people don't care as long as Apple maintains its quality.
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|Because iPods themselves are memes. People do not buy iPods because "because they're easy to use and because the iTunes Music Store is the best of its kind"/ Whether they are or not better is besides the point, most iPod owners have not owned digital music players other than their iPods, so they really have nothing on which to base a judgement of "better". Most iPod commercials show nothing about how to use the product. Like most Apple commercials they say very little about the actual product, except the iPod commercials (with nothing more than some silouette dancing holding an iPod) actually say more about the iPod than the Mac commercials do about Macs.
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|You have survey data on this, or just a heavily biased opinion? Not that there's anything bad about a heavily biased opinion, but you seem to know an awful lot about iPod buyers.
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|If you are referring to this part of my post "most iPod owners have not owned digital music players other than their iPods", then I really don't think I need survey data to back it up as I am pretty sure, given Apple's success with the iPod, that there are many many more iPod owners out there than people who have owned other mp3 players. I admit I have no survey data to back this up with; but unless I am horribly overestimating the iPod's success, statistical data is not really needed.
Also, people don't really know how easy something is to use for them until they have owned them awhile. And everyone hears things a little differently.
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|"I admit I have no survey data to back this up with"
'nuf said. Thanks for being honest.
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|I thank you for that nice, well-thought-out response.
Do you really need survey data for things that can be deduced from logical thought? Oh, wait, you are probably a iPod owner trying to defend their purchase, you don't want logic to enter into the equation.
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|Seems to be missing the sure-to-be-needed ctrl, alt, and del keys.
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|BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Wow! That's hilarious! You should be in comedy, making people laugh the way you do! Somebody sign this guy up for clown school, I tell ya!
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|if you think those keys are still useful you need to upgrade from win95 kiddo ....
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|That was a good one. Don't take that other guy's comment personally.. Someone must have put thumb-tacks on his seat this morning...
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|They work fine for me. ;)
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|Umm... I use them all the time. I'm constantly doing this:
CTRL + ALT + DEL --> Enter
My computer is then instantly locked out (XP Pro) and I can walk away with peace-of-mind at work.
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|Winkey-L is *much* easier.... ;p
Now CTRL + ALT + DEL -> L (or S) is *very* handy.
Not a mouser by nature. Hate having to hit the start-button to log out or shut down.
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|I agree. I hate clicking the start button for *anything*.
Didn't know about the Winkey-L combination. Yikes... another thing I haven't been doing with the least steps possible. I'm beginning to think it's hopeless. Excuse me while I become depressed. :(
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|Depressed? Don't talk to me about being depressed. Me, brain the size of a planet, and what do they have me doing? That's right, teaching you humans how to use shortcuts.
I'm sooooo depressed. ;p
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|OMG, I LOVE THAT MOVIE.
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is the greatest.
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|feh...
The movie sucked.
The books, however, were quite brilliant.
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|fine...
I hate you too...
...jerk.
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|The movie wasn't bad. Yes, the books were better; but as movie "adaptions" of books go, I would rank it pretty high.
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|roflmao...
God, you gotta stop doing that. If I fall out of my chair again, they're going to chain me to it.
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|No, you are mistaken. My name is *not* God. Although, I can see why you would think that. It's a simple mistake.
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|One of our operations managers is named Godfrey. of course, he's known as "God" pretty much everywhere.
Of course, since our logins consist of a series of numbers, the first three letter of your last name, and the first three letters of your first name, it gets even more fun.
nnDemGod (duh)
nnSirBob (The knightly salesman)
nnTheDon (You talkin' to me?)
nnHolAsh (much better if it was the other way 'round)
...fun stuff.
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|So if the iPod survives does that mean the "iPod Killer" is a failure?
Why can't Microsoft just make nice products that don't want to kill other companies products?
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|well, that's the cost of capitialism. look at how many small businesses did Walmart killed.
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|LOL
I can just see them sitting on the shelves...
Lights go out, store get's locked up...
...all is quiet, until...
...
...
Well, I'm just not that damn creative today I guess. Someone else finish that one for me, eh?
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|...overwhelmed by the pressure of its fame, prestige, and popularity, the iPod breaks the silence of the night by jumping off the top shelf, crashing to the floor with a dramatic thud.
All the while it screamed, "Good-bye, cruel world!"
The "iPod Killer" smirked with delight. Little did it know the cruel fate that awaited it...
-----------
Just remember, PC_Tool: you asked for it. I'm not responsible.
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|The cruel fate would be Apple's new "Zune" Killer? :p
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|Why can't article writers not present stories as all or nothing affairs.
For Example, "Redmond's moves to counter the success of the iPod..."
Somehow, I really doubt MS cares all that much about countering Apple's success.
I swear, sometimes it feels like all us geeks watched Highlander one too many times.
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|When you buy name brand you pay big bucks. You can always find products that do the same things and maybe more, for less. IMHO
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|if anybody in microsoft happens to read this ...
if you really want to compete against apple and its ipod....... lower the prices, or these devices will be set to fail
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|if you think iPod (or any Apple product in general) price is low, then you must be out of your damn mind.
And how do you know if the price of MS ipod killer will be high? MS has so much cash to burn, how do you know they won't deploy the strategy that they deployed for xbox.
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|prices as specified here
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3371
seem a bit too high in comparison
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|I think the key to overcoming the ipod is to design a more simple and easier to use software then iTunes. I installed WMP 11 Beta and it's still confusing. iTunes has me hooked to the iPod.
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|The thing is that you have audiophiles that will always buy for quality rather than the WOW factor. This is one that MSFT and Apple never quite seem to get when designing these devices. They are flashy and cool and good for listening. But not for true audiophiles.
So, basically MSFT is taking the Nintendo DS approach on this one and are targeting young adults... if the player is cool enough, the kiddies will buy it.
On the other hand, if buying for music quality, both Apple and MSFT lose out. Creative still puts out the best SOUNDING players. (Before everyone flames me, look at the sound decibels and audio ranges between a Nomad Zen NX and any of the iPods).
Then again, MSFT only wants 20% of the market share (like they'll stop there... lol)
;-)
~dnc
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|I agree but unfortunately not for Mac. I write them once in a while, just to keep the interest going.
Hey maybe we could all call and write Creative. We're verbal enough, seems like.
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|Consider yourself flamed:
Creative does NOT put out the best sounding players, by a long shot. Most of their figures are bogus, just like they are with their speakers. It would be a complete waste of time for me to even look at them.
Try an audible comparison between a Creative device and an equivalent one from iRiver. I think you'll find the iRiver will dominate the Creative.
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|That article was not particularly well-written IMO. It quoted the price from here:
http://www.digitalmusicn...ay/july2006#071706msft2
(That link doesn't look permanent unfortunately), which actually said:
"According to the sources, the device will offer 30GB of storage, though it will deliver the "same pricing, look and feel as the 60GB iPod". That would suggest a retail price of $399, the price point for the high-end iPod."
So that is just a guess at the price; not a price set in stone. If MS buys the parts in bulk, then they can get discounts on components; or as the previous poster said, they could just sell it at a loss to build market share. Just as they do with the XBox.
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|