October Debut for Microsoft 'iPod Killer'

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

July 20, 2006, 3:31 PM

EXCLUSIVE Microsoft's so-called "iPod killer" could be unveiled as early as late next month, with the company preparing to build momentum towards an October launch, sources close to the situation have told BetaNews.

These latest developments indicate that Apple has only a short period of time to react before a barrage of marketing and publicity surrounds Microsoft's new device. To its defense, Apple told analysts in an earnings call Wednesday night that it "wasn't standing still."

Redmond's moves to counter the success of the iPod have also resulted in several code-names, including Argo, Pyxis, Zune, and Alexandria. Although solid information as to the actual product details is scarce, various media sources have compiled some information from sources inside and outside Microsoft.

The entire initiative falls under the name "Project Argo," and insiders believe Microsoft is working on at least two portable players. Zune, which first surfaced in June, is believed to be the iPod-like device that would include wireless connectivity in a design very reminiscent of the Apple iPod.

Sources have confirmed to BetaNews that a second player exists, known by the code-name "Pyxis." While details are scant on the player's features, it is being billed as a competitor to the iPod nano in both size and functionality, with the addition of video support. Talk of a third device has not been verified.

Finally, "Alexandria" is believed to be the service that would accompany these devices, much like the synchronous relationship between the iPod and iTunes. While some believed Microsoft and MTV's URGE service would fill this role, that is not the case. However, some analysts say Alexandria will be URGE-like in the way it operates.

In any case, movement on these fronts is likely going to happen fast over the next month, as public demonstrations and presentations are scheduled to begin the last week of August. This would be followed by another wave of presentations in the second week of September, sources said of Microsoft's plans.

The possible unveiling of the Project Argo players would come three weeks after Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference, where the company might unveil a refresh to the iPod nano lineup including multiple colors and larger capacities. But Apple isn't expected to update the main iPod until next year, opening the door for Microsoft's market entrance.

Promotional efforts for Argo will begin after the public demonstrations and continue through the launch. While specifics of the marketing campaign were not given, it's likely from past Microsoft launches that it would include a print, online, television, and outside advertising component to support the products.

People close to the situation said they were confident that Microsoft could meet its goal to have the Argo players ready in October. This would enable the company to compete with Apple during the crucial holiday shopping season.

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By firstblood

edited Sep 28, 2006 - 4:28 PM

finally, there is going to be another choice better than ipod.
after spending $499.00 and owning it for 2 years for a piece of sh** ipod, and trying to get repaired from ipod store, and only be told, " you better buy a new one". Not even one can tell me where can i get it fixed.

ipod only cares about making money, they dont care about their customers.
the only good about ipod, they make a good paper weight.

Score: 0

By GreenApple123

posted Aug 24, 2006 - 6:06 PM

i recently purchased a replacement iPod battery from http://www.laptopsforles...tery/apple-ipod-Battery and it works great but are there any advantages to the high-capacity batteries? and how do those compare to the "iPod Killer"?

Score: 0

By fanboy

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:09 AM

This thread is a fanboy's dream!

Score: 0

By GimieGimieGimie

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 3:33 AM

As long as ipods and indeed *any* portable mp3 player continue to contain a in-built rechargable battery that cannot be removed or replaced cheaply by the end user, they will always not be a variable option for me.

The amount of people i know who's ipods have died after only 6 months to a year of constant use and having to go out and buy a new one is outragous.

Read up on batteries, over only a short period of time, battery cells die, end of story. This happened to me a couple of years ago with my ipod after a year of use. I was furious when i was told i would have to pay a large sum of money for the battery to be replaced and a handling fee to do or be faced with buying a new one.

It's like a high cost ipod yearly subscription!

Well anyway, i said up yours to all that and bought a Creative Zen Micro which DOES have a removable cost effective Li-ion battery (much like a mobile phone).

I've gone down from 20gb to a 6gb mp3 player but at least i know i won't be paying through the nose every year to keep my mp3 player in my life.

I've had my Creative Zen Micro for over a year and a half now with no problems what so ever, even the battery still has great charge after all this time (very little degradation) and as an additional plus, i also bought a spare battery, always charged and in my pocket to take over when i need more power on the move.

ipod killer?, i doubt it (ipods are bought on the majority for 75% looks and 25% functionality), as long as it works and looks sexy, people *LOVE* their ipods and with vanity as high as it's ever been and raising, i'm confident people will continue to buy the number one most needed electronic fashion accessory.

Ultimate mp3 player?, not if it doesn't have a removable battery it isn't.

Score: 0

By affordableweb

edited Jul 27, 2006 - 9:25 PM

"ipod killer?, i doubt it (ipods are bought on the majority for 75% looks and 25% functionality)."

I have to agree with you on that. Owning an ipod is not about the function but the stley and cool factor. A new device with heavy marketing is what it will take to compete. The technology should be better but it does not necessariy have to be top of the line. I think Zen and iRiver types will carve a niche in the high end player market or die soon.

see more at http://www.zunemax.com

Score: 0

By linkdup

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 12:13 PM

maybe you should google how to take care of batteries. just an idea.

i've had an ipod since the first month or so of the click wheel coming out and i've had absolutely no problems. i use it EVERY day on my way to work, at work and on my way home. i use it for music and data because i transfer files from home to work and back constantly.

my battery still has a ton of juice. enough to drive from LA to Vegas and back on one charge.

my ipod isn't all scratched up either. maybe people should learn how to take care of their investments before b****ing about them.

if apple releases a full screen with touch screen soon i'm going to buy that too. you know why? not because I'm a fanboy (i dare you to use that excuse)... but because i can take care of my property.

ciao

Score: 0

By GimieGimieGimie

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 12:54 PM

Well ain't you a lucky boy then, i very doubt all my friends suffered from the same problem just because they don't know how to look after their batties.

I personally do know how to look after batteries thank you very much.

I am not a moron you fanboy twat.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 11:32 AM

Amen.

Score: 0

By miguelito

edited Jul 23, 2006 - 10:30 AM

Finally, a legitimate competition to the IPOD. I believe this will be the first real shot at harnessing the high cost Apple device.
Apple has held a quasi-monopoly over the past few years, and according to their financials, the IPOD has practically revived the diminishing company.
There are other MP3 players out there, but Zune will be more formidable, even if it's solely because of the company's name. Take the Xbox for example and what it did to the Playstation.
The Xbox market share may not be where the Playstation is, but you know, the price certainly has come down. And, more $$ is being pumped into R&D consistently improve their products and deliver a better gaming experience to consumers -- competitive advantage.
So, let the price war begin!

Score: 0

By spongy-poo

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:07 AM

The price has come down??? Let me get you the phone number for the Sony CEO so you can explain that thinking to him. ;o)

Score: 0

By SKSnews

edited Jul 23, 2006 - 2:51 AM

I recall reading a few months ago that Microsoft holds the patent for parts of the user interface (UI)currently used by Apple for the iPod which means it (Microsoft) should be able to use the same interface if it wishes to. I also read that Microsoft had more than 24 engineers from Transmeta Corporation (TMTA)working on projects. TMTA specialize in software-based microprocessors, which deliver a balance of low-power consumption, high performance, low cost and small size suited for diverse computing platforms. I'm waitting to see what Microsoft will bring to the table.

Score: 0

By MarlinT

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 5:48 PM

Oh.. Who remembers when the iPod was only availible to MAC users.. How popular was it than?

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 11:12 PM

It really wasn't a major factor until Apple ported iTunes (and its Music Store) to Windows.

It's amazing how many people just don't understand iTMS' role in the iPod's success.

Score: 0

By azazel-

edited Jul 22, 2006 - 2:36 PM

I wouldn't classify this as an 'iPod Killer'...more along the lines of a Creative/iRiver Killer.

When its all said and done, it's not an iPod, and it won't sell like an iPod. It might make a slight dent in iPod sales, but more likely it will simply kill off all these little secondary Windows/WMP-centric players. Even moreso that Microsoft will be developing something new instead of using PlaysForSure, which I'm sure all these manufacturers are *thrilled* about.

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 11:11 PM

Bingo. Someone gets it.

Score: 0

By WH101

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 9:27 AM

An ipod killer would have to have a modular design, so as to encourage inovation.
Anyone should be able to write plugins for codecs, skins and functionallity etc.

Imagine a PSP style device which could be modified/upgraded/changed legally with the support of the company that made it.

Make it a platform for new ideas.

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 11:11 PM

That's a geek device, not a mass market device.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 11:36 AM

That's a geek device, not a mass market device.

How many ring tones and downloadable pictures do people have on their cell phones, and how many more get downloaded every day? A simple "add skin," in the music transfer program would easily work.

You may want to re-think that statement.

Score: 0

By utomo

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 2:16 AM

The price must be good
The battery life must be good
The sound must be good
It must support WMA and MP3 (better if MP4 and other too)
It must have the good voice recorder

if all is exist, yes this can be ipod killer. if not it maybe NOT

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 10:54 AM

Yes and no. Everything you've listed is fundamental (except maybe a voice recorder), but none of those are enough to kill the iPod.

Try a design and interface that's somehow simpler and at least as intuitive as the iPod's, combined with a music store as cheap and as well-stocked as the iTunes Music Store.

The problem with Microsoft is that they consistently fall short in UI and aesthetic design. I sense clunkiness ahead.

Score: 0

By Floodland

posted Jul 23, 2006 - 10:13 PM

The problem is Microsoft itself: As already did several times, they could release a crappy useless DRM infected player with a great marketing propaganda and win market share with a clearly inferior product. It happenned multiple times already. I like competition and I hope Microsoft release a good product, but that's difficult

Score: 0

By EvilJawa

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 10:17 PM

This has been a long argument and I to make my points quick

>Crap-a-soft
>Microsux
>Greedy
>Empire
>Evil Corporation

Your intelligence and diversity is quite, "admirable" simply making petty insults doesnt make us back off it only makes us laugh at you (hahaha) but we can be harsh but some of us do want to see the downfall of our favorite companies rivals, say I support Microsoft and am Glad to see the impending fall of Sony from the PS3, as for Apple, they offend me in the same way as that one guy who dreamed of creating an idealistic race of superhumans who will dominate all others, oh yeah hitler. this case just with computers. I am still hoping for the Xbox live connection rumor and for games from the Arcade. in the Mp3 market those with low prices win fo the same product level. this "Ipod Killer" will just be someting with more features to reduce the menial tasks that come with other devices Its truly not meant to bankrupt Apple (only in my dreams, where the apple lovers shove their precious Nanos up their a** wrap a Mac cord around their neck and jump off their parents roof. and shut up. just a thought) my point is... well i got lost in the rant so I guess i was geting at how uptight a******s need to shut up and let the other consumers make their own choices. im not a techno freak so all I want is something that works, runs well, and doesnt BREAK. and dont try to call me uneducated, because I dont know about the smaller specs and know every program in the world, I am able to ignore you if I choose. I say buy the device that you like, if you want something new buy the zune, for efficiency Irver/creative/ and fo smaller migratory land mammals get the Ipod.
I have just one last piece of input, who puts an Mp3 player in a shirt pocket when most pants can hold 3 Kittens and still be comfortable.

Sportom Protiv Droge!

Score: 0

By business2.0

edited Jul 23, 2006 - 7:23 PM

What's sad is that you (EvilJawa) are being so overly biased and hateful that you're discrediting Apple and Sony for what they've really done. The man behind Microsoft isn't nearly as stuck up about his company as you are. In fact, he'll tell you all about how Apple has done a great job and he'll credit them with all sorts of great stuff.

Score: 0

By fanboy

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:10 AM

LOL! Yeah, I'm a Saint Bill fanboy, too.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 5:34 PM

I recently bought a music player for about $200. It's a tad large, but it's got a 14" LCD on it and can store upwards to 40GB of music, movies, TV shows, you name it.

I can even upgrade the storage limit any time I want!

It's awesome, I tell you. I hear they're selling new for over $600 Dollars.

Score: 0

By crashoverride

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 5:47 PM

No Fair, I want one!!!!

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 6:21 PM

Hop on eBay.

type in "laptop"

Good 2 go.

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 7:22 PM

Betcha it has built-in speakers too, huh? ;-)

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 8:14 PM

Damn straight.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 5:41 PM

Well done in purchasing your laptop.

I need a new one... :(

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 6:03 PM

No, I need a new one, mine only will hold 4GB of music and movies :(

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 6:20 PM

Upgrade the hard drive, man... ;)

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 6:08 PM

Not worth it, only 10 minutes of battery life as it is :P

Score: 0

By koofi

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 5:18 PM

Bought Sandisk 1G from Amazon..cool as cucumber ....less than half a price and does all you need. With technology advancements I will strongly suggest forget about Apple and Microsoft. You can get much better things at much better price. You just need to know how to look for them.

Score: 0

By K T

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 5:09 PM

who needs this ANOTHER Crap-a-soft product ?!
Do you have viruses in your MP3 player ? NOT YET ?!
BTW, Where is that Ultra-mobile PC, that announced this spring ?NOBODY WANTS THIS CRAP

Score: 0

By Phyx-

edited Jul 22, 2006 - 5:33 AM

Crap-a-soft product? ohh geez we have another linsuck fan here. let's look at the track record here shall we, take let's ay PDAs, while windows mobile keeps getting better and better all Linux pdas (namely 1 sony pda) where big clunky, steaming pile of s***. In terms of harware microsoft has rarely produced a bad egg. You are just a fan boy of apple. take a damn reality pill

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Jul 23, 2006 - 11:34 PM

Quit whining like a little girl. If you don't want one don't buy one, and let other people make their own choice. Using childish names like crap-a-soft or crapple doesn't help you much either, it just makes you sound stupid.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 6:23 PM

Especially since "crap-a-soft" could be used for just about any software company whose name is 3 syllables, ending in "-soft".

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:24 PM

This will succeed because the record companies want it to. They don't want 70% of the MP3 market in Apple's greedy hands and will help several players cut into Apple's dominance over the next five years. Watch as Apple's download shares go down and down, just like IE vs. Firefox.

Score: 0

By wess2500

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 2:47 PM

GO MICROSOFT.....the only people that give apple so much hype are people that wanna be different and think they are so "elite".....i have an ipod but its a piece of crap...it physically looks cool but the interface is extremely basic and its slow...........im stoked to see what microsoft comes out with...hopefully its noteworthy

Score: 0

By rayz66

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 11:38 PM

That's weird; how does owning an iPod make you different? Surely it makes you the same as everyone else!

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 6:22 PM

He didn't say it actually makes you different, just that its target audience wants to be. Truthfully, everyone wants to be different, to be special; some are just gullible enough to think their choice of mp3 player or OS actually acheives this.

Score: 0

By Don Juan

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 3:41 PM

I agree, iPods, along with every other Apple product, are overpriced junk. But what keeps the Creative players from being iPod killers? I have one, they're absolutely awesome.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 3:51 PM

Not enough marketing to the general populace of barely computer-literate people. No real marketing at all, I've never seen a commercial for a Creative product outside of PC mags.

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 7:12 PM

Yeah, but that is not always a bad thing. The reason Creative makes some of the best players is because the customers that they have are looking for one thing; sound quality. If they were to start real heavy duty mass production along the lines of Apple or iRiver even, the quality of the product would degrade.

Look at it like your favourite home cooked meal. As soon as it is packaged, mass-produced and sent out on the market, it's quality will degrade so that it can appeal to a larger market.

Creative can keep their quality up by keeping their products *relativly* below the radar (not to mention their pricing). Now, if the audio players were their ONLY product, then I would worry. But they are still raking in millions off of their audio cards, which btw, they are 2nd or 3rd in the industry in sales. I think only RealTek and someone else (I can't remember the name off the top of my head) is beating them.

~dnc

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 9:33 PM

You turn to Creative for sound quality?

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 6:19 PM

Trust me, it beats realtek.

Score: 0

By mshulman

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:25 PM

How about ease of use? I think the iPod excels with itunes and how easily it is for the two to sync.

I had a creative player and it was up to me to sync it. I think there are better solutions out there now, but name one that is as seamless and easy to use as itunes and the ipod.

Score: 0

By simonchretien

posted Jul 23, 2006 - 12:35 AM

Ease of use, yeah right lol.
Is it too hard to drag and drop files on your player?
iTunes is useless.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 6:17 PM

We ARE talking about people that need an industrial strength search engine for their own computers.

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 7:13 PM

Um, any player that supports PlaysForSure technology? You plug it into your Windows PC, fire up WMP and do an auto-sync. (Not that I support or endorse WMP, but for a library tool, it's actually pretty good. I have yet to find another library tool on the market that easily auto-tags from the internet as easily as WMP can).

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:22 PM

exactly all marketing

it's good when a good company markets a good product, bad when a good company doesn't market a good product and bad when a bad company markets a bad product

an example of the last is of course the Mac. You gotta love those "TRUTH" style commercials huh?

I personally like Iriver. I believe they were the ones to champion the idea of immense play time out of the least amount of battery usage

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 2:08 PM

What does the press refer to this as an ipod "killer" and not just another competitor?

Score: 0

By rayz66

edited Jul 22, 2006 - 1:45 AM

Because if you say 'iPod killer', Apple fans will descend on your site like a swarm of locust, call you names, question the morals of your sister and increase your hit rate. Ask Dvorak; he makes a living out of it.

Score: 0

By Black-Wolf

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:38 PM

iPod, here we come, and we will claim victory over your ass.

Score: 0

By brentonhood

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 12:54 PM

The only iPod killer is the iPod itself.

I can't beleive they are even as popular as they are. I have had some SERIOUS problems with my (nano 4 gb black, 20 gig, 20 gig color, mini 4 gig) iPods. Yeah, customer service is a joke too. "Hi, I bought your iPod about 4 months ago and the battery life is now about 2 hours. Can I get that fixed please." "Sir, since it has been over the first 3 months, we will have to charge yo $30 to ship the iPod to the company. Then, if we examine it and see that the battery is fine, we will charge you $100 for a diagnosis of the player. If we see that the battery does need replacing, we will charge you $60 to replace it." "oh, that's all? So, my 1 year warranty doesn't really do all that much, huh?" My most recent purchase, the Nano, was the worst of the bunch. A few weeks into owning it, screen broke and "bled" all across the monitor. Yeah, spent 4 weeks trying to get a replacement. Finally got one, and it was a refurb with scratches already on it...I had mine in a case, it was PERFECT when I sent it out. Way to go Mac....yeah!!! LOL...makes me want to get a new Mac computer this afternoon....NOT....

Thank God for microsoft. Maybe they'll actually give Apple some incentive to make something good.

Score: 0

By bachisanerd

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 1:24 PM

"I hate iPods, so I bought 4 of them."

Score: 0

By Murphmeister

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 9:20 PM

""I hate iPods, so I bought 4 of them."

hahahahaha

Score: 0

By brentonhood

edited Jul 22, 2006 - 6:53 PM

Who said I bought all of them?

Bachisanerd: "I have no friends; no one that ever gives me anything. So everyone else must have bought their own iPods too."

Way to think "outside the box." Typical Mac Lemming for you. Defend the label at all cost, don't let the features/product defend itself.

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Jul 23, 2006 - 7:17 AM

Yes, because it's totally common to continually receive iPods as gifts, especially when you apparently hate them.

Score: 0

By xyzcb1

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:19 PM

Then you have to ask yourself why you are continuously supporting them if your find their products have problem and service is terrible. Shame on you.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 1:01 PM

Score: 0

By miniplayer.info

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 9:17 AM

It is about time Microsoft stepped in and raised a little hell!

Can't wait for Zune, join out forum at miniplayer.info and talk about it!

http://www.miniplayer.info

Score: 0

By mdionis

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 12:22 PM

Why not just buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1G-1...839QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 12:42 PM

pfffft!

No FLAC support?

How old-school....

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 10:50 AM

Wake up and smell the Marketing Hype people.

Anything an iPod or any other mp3 player can do, a pocket pc can do, but your MP3 player can't do what my pocket pc can do.

3rd party applications for just about any conceivable need, mobile computing, E-mail, not stuck to a proprietary codec or standard when the mp3 is no longer the codec of choice, voice recording, WiFi, Blue tooth, PCMCIA slot, GPS, Flash Card memory slot, and some are cell phones too! And you can pick up pocket PC's for about the same price depending on features.

In 2 years you'll be trying to sell you iPods on ebay and get about as good of a result as you would trying to sell a mini disk player today. Worse because the market will be flooded.

I see iPod Chunking contests sprouting up all over the country...lol.

Score: 0

By lizzymcguire

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 12:34 PM

You are clearly a marketing douche from redmond...hired by them to propogate their mediocrity.. booo..

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 3:10 PM

lol

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 11:11 AM

Specialized devices, by definition, are a niche product. Anyone will tell you this. MP3 players go on living because they do one thing and do it well.

My Smartphone (running Windows Mobile) is an MP3 player too, but the sound quality sucks. Same goes for most pocket PCs. They are versatile in that they can do a number of things, but if you want them to do everything and do it well, it's going to cost and arm and a leg. And quite frankly, there's nothing out there that does that yet, because the manufacturers know it won't sell.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 3:12 PM

Definition of niche - "A focused, targetable part of a market."

Niche? The iPod is marketed just about every demographic group out there age 10 to 45, M or F, that can hear, watch a TV, pick up a Magazine, and most importantly follow like a lemming. Hardly focused.

All they did was market the ish out of it and create hype for their product across the board. (Which is the function of the marketing and and promotions departments at Apple.)

If there is a niche for the product, it may be the user that wants an audio device only, (and not because some marketing campaign said their product was magically better quality with no product comparisons.) But that's a very slim % of those that are buying it.

If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow. They already have 2 or 3 devices on there person at all times to accomplish these functions.

A properly marketed "all in one," would blow any mp3 player out of the mass market.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 3:09 PM

If there is a niche for the product, it may be the user that wants an audio device only

How perceptive. That might have been *exactly* what I was saying in the comment you replied to.

If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow.

Umm... you did you read the post you replied to, right? Like I said, those devices are already out. The drawback to them is that they can't provide all of their features with as much quality as a specialized device can.

That's why MP3 players are still around. All people want is something that will play music (and now video, but audio is the focus) with great audio quality. An "all-in-one" can't deliver that; not for a competitive price, anyway. That's why they haven't killed the iPod yet.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 4:54 PM

How perceptive. That might have been *exactly* what I was saying in the comment you replied to.

These people are not purchacing any iPod out there. Is there a niche, yes. I don't dispute that. But that niche that is looking for ultra high quality is NOT buying just a middle of the road device that's been marketed good. They will do research to find the highest quality device they can get.

MP3 players have been out for years longer than the current iPod craze. They were never this popular until the iPod put a commercial on every channel at every commercial break.

The iPod does NOT cater to your "niche," market. Pure and simple.

"The drawback to them is that they can't provide all of their features with as much quality as a specialized device can."

What are you basing quality on? RMS wattage? Frequency response? Noise ratio? Or what people "perceive," as quality audio? The old Awia stereos "sounded" great, but their Spec's sucked.

For every over hyped device that is a specialized portable audio player a multifunction device can be produced with similar audio quality specifications.

All people want is something that will play music with great audio quality.

People? I though it was a Niche market?

How may high school and college students with iPods have them because of "audio quality?" The same amount that have a Cell Phone glued to their heads and text 50 messages a day, because they want to let Mom and Dad know where they are at all times. The only clue about quality of anything that they have, is what the collective “they,” told them. And the 20-25yo crowd isn’t much different. What % of iPod owners is that? 50%? Nice niche market you’ve got going there.

"People," are carrying around a PDA, a Cell Phone, an MP3 player and sometimes a GPS at the same time. All "people," really NEED is an all in one device, but what they WANT is an iPod because of marketing. Plain and simple.

"An "all-in-one" can't deliver that; not for a competitive price, anyway

You cannot compare price of a device that does one thing well, to the cost of a device that does multiple things well.

Add up the cost of an average mp3 player, an average pda, an average cell phone, and an average GPS unit. That's a heck of a lot of quid to play with! I paid $400 for my PDA and it does just as good of a job playing mp3’s and video as a comparable iPod.

Look past the social moray that the iPod has created, do a little research, and brave the intelligent choice instead of the popular choice.

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 5:28 PM

" I paid $400 for my PDA and it does just as good of a job playing mp3’s and video as a comparable iPod."

lol
ok, you believe that
:-p

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:49 PM

You do not listen. I give up.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 11:30 AM

Hello pot, The kettle returned your call!

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 5:42 PM

Why does the kettle care about drugs? It's not like he can smoke any.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 5:19 PM

Kettle Blacksmith?

That Traitorous bas****.

Almost as bad as Loki. ;)

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 6:23 PM

No-one else has seen Erik The Viking?

Wincement, I'm ashamed of you. You should have gotten that one.

Check it out. Got a few of the guys from Monty Python in there, and the "cloak-invisible" scenes rock.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 22, 2006 - 1:37 PM

Wincement, I'm ashamed of you. You should have gotten that one.

Sorry =/

I am now ashamed of myself. I didn't even know I needed to be before. =(

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:34 PM

"If someone packaged a pocket pc device in a pretty white case with the included features of cell phone, Text Messaging, e-mail and a multiple codec audio player, 75% of the iPod crowd would jump ship tomorrow."

you are sadly mistaken. the market proves it. when i want to listen to music, i grab an ipod. not my treo, not my pocket pc. they may have the same mp3 function, but they disappoint in portability, usability and sound quality.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:07 PM

Take an iAudio X5 for a walk.

You'll drop the iPod so fast it's screen won't even have time to scratch.

Score: 0

By business2.0

posted Jul 23, 2006 - 7:42 PM

Yes...lets go buy an MP3 player that costs more than the iPod that only offers up to 1/3 the storage space of an iPod! Wait, what's this, I need yet another program on my computer to transfer files to it?! Oh, and I have to be running Mac OS or Linux!?!?

No thanks. Something about buying a product that is fairly advanced from an unknown company with little history and no public financial reports just doesn't make me feel right...

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 10:42 AM

I'm sorry. I don't normally resort to this, but you are dumb.

Where did you get the "costs more than the iPod" data? Take a look:

http://www.newegg.com/Pr...sp?Item=N82E16855603828

Now, please tell us where you found a 60GB iPod with video for under $345. We're all dying to know.

Wait, what's this, I need yet another program on my computer to transfer files to it?!

Um... you have to load iTunes to use the iPod, correct?

Oh, and I have to be running Mac OS or Linux!?!?

Of course it supports Windows, genius. It just also happens to support more OSes than any other audio player.

No thanks. Something about buying a product that is fairly advanced from an unknown company with little history and no public financial reports just doesn't make me feel right...

Stop it. You're killing me. No one can be that ignorant. Try not to be a sheep, k?

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 3:10 PM

Or you have been brainwashed…lol.

Obviously you subscribe to the "must have multiple devices that serve the same purpose," line of thinking. You admittedly own TWO PDA's which overlap a majority of function with each other.

A pda is no less portable than an iPod. How can you believe that? They weigh the same and have the same basic dimensions. You can purchase cradles, wallets, portfolios, straps, and hangers for each of them. It's a wash at best, there’s no winner on either side.

Don't be a lemming

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 7:21 PM

I'm a techno-slut. I like carrying my treo, my pocket pc, my nomad and my laptop. In fact, I use them all at the same time too! Many times to listen to multiple songs all at the same time! I'm bad... someone spank me with an iPod.

;-)

This thread is gettin' outta control!

~dnc

Score: 0

By GCoder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 10:02 AM

Buy somthing from Microsux instead of Apple? Nope!

...game over.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 3:27 PM

"Microsux", ooh, how brilliant, and adds so much credence to your argument. Too bad Apple didn't actually call themselves Macintosh, because then I could call them Markentosh or Markuptosh and sound just as smart and unbiased as you.

Score: 0

By fanboy

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:14 AM

The problem (besides your obvious personality defects) is you aren't even clever enough to come up with Crapple Apple.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Jul 24, 2006 - 6:13 PM

Sorry, I wasn't aware my personality defects were so obvious through a few sentences. Besides, I was trying to go for an analogy of "microsux" in that it is a simple modification of the original word, not a rhyme; but apparently you are not clever enough to realise that. Of course, I could always cause the blindly zealotrous mac fanboys "Appholes".

Score: 0

By wolvorine4424

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 4:04 PM

I hate ipods and I do NOT have one... lol

I have a modded PSP well I did all the modding...
I can Play anything Audio/Vedio any format, PSP games, and other systems games like: GB, GBA, DS, nintendo, SNES, TG16, and more...

Plus I have WIFI, IR, Storage cards, UMD drive for original games and movies...

Oh, Almost forgot, I can have it on for 16 hours and still have over 30% battery left...

Beat that IPOD... I do have other Japan Only toys. so I will not list them here... Damn its good to travel...

Score: 0

By mshulman

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:02 PM

That's a great attitude and I'm sure Apple would love more customers like you.

It's foolish and ignorant to decide not to buy something just because of who makes it. I was always against the iPod - not so much because it was Apple, but because they restricted you to using iTunes. When my other mp3 player broke, I decided I'd give it a shot and have been very happy.

And I didn't buy it because it's Apple - I bought it because it was the best thing that met my needs.

I'm very interested to see what Microsoft has to offer. I don't think anything will be an ipod killer, but if they can offer an ipod like device, only better, why not look at it and get it? In turn, that will just cause apple to make something better.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 10:18 AM

...well that was easy.

I wonder why everybody doesn't see it that way. They'd save a lot of trouble if they did.

Score: 0

By Pixelsmack

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 6:20 AM

I remember when Atari was king of consoles. Then Nintendo, and then Sony. Now Sony is at risk of losing the title to XBOX360.

History shows, no matter how much a perceived stronghold a company might have, it can be taken away.

Music players are no different. Remember the "Walkman"? I am not backing either one as I have no need for a portable player. But never assume one to reign supreme forever.

Score: 0

By M1M2Z1

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 12:16 PM

Exactly!
So based on your logic we're all just a waiting for M$'s strangle hold on the desktop to end.

Score: 0

By mshulman

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:05 PM

Using M$ instead of MS is just childish.. but I'll ignore that for now.

What people never seem to grasp is that having 1 majority desktop OS and applications (XP and Office) can be a very good thing. When employees leave a company and go to another, guess what? They likely know all the basic software they'll be using at that new company.

Imagine if you will a world where there are as many desktop OS's as there are desktops to choose from. Then add in different productivity apps to each of those. Someone changing companies once a year for 5 years might have to learn a new OS at each of those new companies.

This would hurt productivity, increase businesses costs and in some cases make it harder for someone to find a job.

Score: 0

By fanboy

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:17 AM

"Using M$ instead of MS is just childish.. but I'll ignore that for now."

Nah, that's just a softie spread rumor. Personally, I'm a big fan of descriptive spelling.
M$ describes a greed based company. Get over it!

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 7:00 PM

It could also just imply a rich successful company, with a very generous founder. So I guess it does work. ;)

Score: 0

By business2.0

posted Jul 23, 2006 - 7:55 PM

Very true about having multiple operating systems. It would increase the learning curve for all these people who haven't caught on to using a computer.

On the flip side, Mac Os X is a much more stable operating system than Windows. They are both suited to dominate the market, however, Microsoft has the advantage of familiarity with most people which is making it difficult for Apple to gain a larger share. Though Gates has said that he knows he's made mistakes with Windows and he hopes to fix those mistakes, I, for one, am doubtful of whether this will ever really happen. The way Windows is developed just lends itself to a poor outcome.

This has translated over to some of their other products as well, but not all. The success of this new Audio segment of Microsoft will greatly depend on whether Microsoft is repeating history with a buggy product or introducing a new side of Microsoft with well done products.

We'll just have to wait and see!

Score: 0

By xyzcb1

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 1:23 PM

""What people never seem to grasp is that having 1 majority desktop OS and applications (XP and Office) can be a very good thing. ""

You logic make sense, but w/o competitions, there will be no improvement. Just look at all those regulated monoploy. They are poorly run, and if it's a free market, they will be cease to exist long again.

Score: 0

By mshulman

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 4:31 PM

I agree and I think it's good that they have "some" competition. But it's also probably good that there isn't more.

Think of it this way - what if all cars ran on different fuel? That would be a nightmare, wouldn't it? As we see today, oil companies (Exxon, Shell..etc) have a monopoly in a way. There is certainly limited competition - and look at their profits!

And I think Microsoft certainly treats customers far better than the oil companies do.

Score: 0

By fanboy

posted Jul 24, 2006 - 8:18 AM

Yeah? Wait til you see the Vista pricing scheme!

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

edited Jul 21, 2006 - 1:13 AM

What would be cool is if they made a Pocket PC Media Center Edition but with 60gb of space. I think that would be cool.

Score: 0

By simonchretien

posted Jul 20, 2006 - 11:05 PM

Wow what a surprise, the usual comments from a bunch of Apple zealots. Innovation this, nicer look that. Whatever. People mostly buy iPods not because they're better than other players (why the hell would I want to stick with proprietary garbage and drm) but because Apple got the lead from the beginning and it's somehow cool to own what ignorants call iPods (when they're talking about any mp3 player).

"The iPod is the standard. MS is too late to the party---they have no chance."

Ignorant remark, Were other car makers "too late" after the Ford model T became "the standard"?

"My 4GB Nano has 834 tunes on it, and I wouldn't trade it for any other player."

I bet you didnt try many others, or none at all. Or maybe crap, because there's a bunch of great players out there. It must be better to stay a blind fanatic...

"Oh and p.s. innovate? What? They don't know what it means because all they have ever spent their energy on is psychotically trying to control a market they got in the first place with marketing and adevertising dollars..."

You know, Apple was there in the beginning and very strong, they screwed themselves many times so stop whining.

"Creative still puts out the best SOUNDING players. (Before everyone flames me, look at the sound decibels and audio ranges between a Nomad Zen NX and any of the iPods)."

Exactly, good point. But for most kids quality is the least of their concern. Hey, they look cool because they own the same thing their friends already have! I think targeting young adults is a good idea.

"I think the key to overcoming the ipod is to design a more simple and easier to use software then iTunes. I installed WMP 11 Beta and it's still confusing. iTunes has me hooked to the iPod."

Wow, I wonder why anyone would use WMP. It always sucked and it's not like anyone forced you to use it. Besides, what's the point with managing music with something like iTunes?

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Jul 21, 2006 - 12:18 PM

lmao Simon... excellent points! (and the only reason I have kept my 30GB Creative Zen Xtra NX is because of the 96db snr! Also, the fact that it can support lossless WMA encoding).

I do agree with you about the kiddies though. It's not the quality of a product, it's how cool it will make them.

Score: 0