I thought the UMD idea was good, a small, protected disk that can fit in just about anything, so much easier than carrying around a DVD.

Why are Sony who are so innovative taking so looooong to get their arse into gear?

i kno im never going to buy UMD movies. the ps3 will be a location free player so i planm to use that

please add me in your google talk

john.new2@gmail.com

I own a psp but have never watched a movie on it, I agree with most of you that say "UMD movies will have a quick death" as there is no way the majority of the people out there will pay USD 28 for a movie that can be only watched on your portable game console.

Sony should introduce UMD/R and RW also sell stand alone players.

They were overpriced, had barely any special features, if any, and they made too many of them.

Aside from all that, I bought 4 at normal price, 6 at sale price, and 4 at business closing price.

We must all remember Media Play.

They were good when there weren't many good games, but now there are tons of good games, so people aren't buying them any more.

I mean, Tron and Super Troopers are less than $10 on DVD, and $28 on UMD.

How stupid can you get.

At $9.95 they may have had a future.
Sony still hasn't learned people don't like their crappy formats.

Was it not sony that invented the 3.5 floppy that is still today installed in most new computers, even if it isn't needed? Like the guy said below, EVERYTHING is proprietary when it first comes out. Then it becomes standard if everyone else jumps on board. You can't fault them for trying, only for not making needed changes when it fails.

In Sony's case though, they are very insistent on wanting to use their own formats - even if similar ones already exist. I don't see real benefit for consumers in ATRAC3, Memory Stick and UMD. They are all Sony's over-zealous attempts on DRM and perhaps attempts to generate some additional revenue.

The main problem with PSP is the media. It should've be DVD not UMD sh*t. A little bigger PSP, that reads DVDs would invite old PS2 gamers to buy PSPs just to play games or movies on the go.

People want smaller things, like the DS Lite, and the iPod Nano, so the PSP is smaller, and so, it has to use something other.

Sony made a mint on sales of UMD movies, and now they are making another mint off the sales of games, as more good games and PSP's are sold.

There is also something that is $100 that is a replacement faceplate from a third party company that makes it so you can hook your PSP up to a TV and watch movies and/or games.

mini-DVDs yes, full DVDs , no way. A DVD it's big for any portable console.

umm.... duh?

I could have (and did) predicted it would fail before the PSP was ever released. Who's going to pay a premium price for a single movie you can only watch on a tiny screen?

that thing is priced way too high, i seen it as high as $29... I WILL NEVER PAY THAT #@*&&* MUCH FOR A UMD.

OK, think about what you have just said, you say that you will never pay $29 for a UMD movie, that you can only watch on a "tiny" screen anyway...but how much do you pay to rent/buy a movie..or go to the movie theaters to see a movie? It's called Inflation, every thing is going up in price, even your trusty DVDs that you can watch on your home television, that unless you have a very expensive t.v. the PSP most likely has better Audio/Video quality anyway, granted the screen is smaller, it still remains larger than the nintendo crap.

Can't blame Sony for trying. Imagine the profit they had on these things. They will have massive profit on Blue ray also, trust me, they keep trying proprietary crap because it is so incredibly profitable (60%+) and well worth it even if it fails.

Heck IOMEGA only made money on the zip disk, it funds *everything* else they ever made.

Another proprietary format Sony tried to push into the market and failed.

Errm, arn't all formats proprietary, until they gain market acceptance.

I seem to remember Philips and Sony releasing a proprietary format called CD back in 1982..

I also remember JVC launching a proprietary format called VHS back in 1976..

Piracy = Adoption.

i saw that this was going to happen when they first came out with UMD. The idea is stupid and overpriced. Theres no surprise here that UD is a falure. Sony has been having a great year so far.

Great point aredo. Look what piracy did for Microsoft. Without it, we might all be working on machines running OS/2.

Windows NT is or all intents and purposes OS/2 licensed from IBM, and all XP is is 95+NT+2000, so there you go.

Wrong. NT is a rewritten VMS OS that Microsoft developed when they hired ex-Alpha OS programmers, Alpha systems were massively using the VMS OS at the time. XP has nothing to do with Windows 95. Windows 95 was based on a fake preemptive multitasking system that was Win3.x

NT does not have any VMS code, it hired David Cutler from VMS, but it does not contain any CMS code.

NT4 had about 25% OS2 code in it. I would expect Win2k to have a small amount (guess

--
http://www.windowsitpro....D=97&ArticleID=4494

When Microsoft released the first version of Windows NT in April 1993, the company's marketing and public relations campaign heavily emphasized the NT (i.e., New Technology) in the operating system's (OS's) name. Microsoft promoted NT as a cutting-edge OS that included all the features users expected in an OS for workstations and small to midsized servers. Although NT was a new OS in 1993, with a new API (i.e., Win32) and new user and systems-management tools, the roots of NT's core architecture and implementation extend back to the mid-1970s.

And now...the rest of the story: I'll take you on a short tour of NT's lineage, which leads back to Digital and its VMS OS. Most of NT's lead developers, including VMS's chief architect, came from Digital, and their background heavily influenced NT's development. After I talk about NT's roots, I'll discuss the more-than-coincidental similarities between NT and VMS, and how Digital reacted to NT's release. . . .
---

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http://www.everything2.c...ndex.pl?node_id=1509990

What is Windows NT?

In the late 80s, Microsoft, in conjuction with IBM, were developing a new operating system, which was called OS/2. Initial releases were not well accepted, and soon, a follow-on was started, trying to remedy some of the problems OS/2 had had. This project was called NT OS/2 (the NT standing for "New Technology"). This is the project Bill Gates managed to persuade Cutler to come and lead, bringing many ex-DEC employees with him. It's main objectives were:[..]

[..]Initial releases of Windows NT were very poor indeed. The strict microkernel approach taken meant that the system was very bloated and slow and despite portability being design aim, the OS was still not available for most architectures. Cutler's response was to push many of the abstracted layers into the kernel, notably the graphics rendering code. This violated the clean and attractive modular design, but performance improved dramatically.[..]

Cutler's influence

Quite apart from the similarities in VMS and Windows NT, there a number of striking coincidences between what Dave Cutler did during his time at DEC and Microsoft. It is almost as if he had a couple of goes at making an OS at Digital, then left and had another go for a different company.

VMS wasn't a perfect operating system. One problem was that it was written almost entirely in VAX assembler, which meant code maintenace and revision was very difficult. In 1993, Cutler said "The biggest mistake we made in VMS was not writing it in a high level language". In contrast, Windows NT was written entirely in C and C++. Had Cutler been given another chance to implement VMS, but in a high level language as he so desired?

An overview of the similarities
The I/O Manager

Windows NT has a very distinctive and unique I/O manager. Actually, it's not quite unique, because it the same as the VMS manager. Unlike many other systems, VMS and NT I/O is packet based and asynchronous. To communicate with the outside world, a programme asks the kernel to send some information to a device, and potentially return the reply. This is when the kernel uses the I/O manager.

Memory management

As mentioned above, NT, VMS and even RSX-11M, VMS's predecessor, split the memory in two - half for the kernel and half for the user. However, the similarities go deeper than this.

Kernel and Executive subsytem

VMS and NT both maintain levels of abstraction inside the OS called the executive.

In NT and VMS, these managers operate in privileged mode (they can use the kernel's memory) although they still communicate to the hardware through the kernel and device drivers.

---

I almost bought a PSP but the one thing that kept me from doing so??.... The fact that I can't add my on content through the UMD format. If they open this feature up to the public before the format is completly dead in the water, it could revive it. They would still need to lower the price of the movies for that to rebound. But only lowering the price at this point will not bring the studios back to the table. There needs to be a bigger market for the device. Burnable UMD discs would help big time.

It's a failure because there is no piracy on the support. They should be selling the titles at one third the price of the DVD release and UMD writers should be available at cheap prices on par with DVD writers with free discs costing as much as DVD+-Rs in order to give the market some serious boost.
If Sony delivers UMD writers at cheap prices and copying and decrypting programs "pop up" on the web all of a sudden, then UMD titles will sell more, although it might seem a paradox, otherwise it's doomed to be a failure.

Absolutly, UMD would be a great format for writting on. The protective casing around it would make it even more attractive than DVD or CDs for backing up docs ect to move around.

Yeah, overpriced Sony-- as usual. IF they wish to stick to such high margins, then they need to do like most of their Asian counterparts: either own a budget division or sub-corp, OR have sub-licensing agreements with a few budget entities: saturate the market to ensure widespread adoption of their product & its different standards, then those folks who want the better product version(brand name, extra features, better software / service, etc.) can pay the $$$.......

over priced, grabage.

It was just a dumb Idea really.

1. Lets make a format that only works on a portable game player.
2. Lets price it the same or higher than current DVD movies, and their equivalent DVD movies have more cotent and better resolution.

DUMB DUMB DUMB.

What Sony should have done is bundle up the UMD with the DVD movies and sell it for 5-6 dollars more. But its not like we got actual intelligent ppl working at sony, or anyone with any ounce of integrity.

I agree with the bundling Idea, Buy the DVD and UMD for a few bucks more would make it successful. But right now there is no way I would spend $20 on a UMD Movie AND buy it on DVD for $14.95 at the same time.

I agree why spend more money on a UMD that you can only play on your PSP and only you can really watch it, when you could buy the film on DVD and watch it on a 42" screen with surround sound and enjoy it.

UMD is a great idea on the go you can watch a movie just like portable DVD players are also a good idea, but not when you are paying ridiculous prices for them.

It is also true that Sony should release their UMD format to the public with UMD-R and UMD-RW so people could make their own films and enjoy the format. As a Memory Stick Duo are only up to 2GB and are expensive.

"What Sony should have done is bundle up the UMD with the DVD movies and sell it for 5-6 dollars more."

Sony has already made these plans. They were planning on this from the start.

Also, something I don't get...I have read multiple reports that UMD sales have been skyrocketing and are actually bought MUCH more than games for the PSP. You know the format is getting popular when you start seeing UMD-Rips at torrent search sites.

"As a Memory Stick Duo are only up to 2GB and are expensive."

Used to be expensive, yes. But actually they are up to 4GB now, with the 2GB being available for about $70. Amazon had some good deals a few weeks ago. In fact, I think the 4GB sticks were selling for about $120.

30 dollars for a umd movie... people people, 20 is too much

Personally, I'd like to have been able to make my own UMDs.

Being able to burn my own UMD with my music or my recorded show (since I'd never, ever try to copy anything illegal) would have made the format more appealing.

But, since Sony believe in everything proprietary, that will probably happen around the same time bovines sprout wings and fly...

UMD -- what a pathetic flop. Why?

#1 - The ads didn't say for PSP. They said "Out Thursday on DVD and UMD". Whaa? How many people actually knew what they were saying?

#2 - How many people are so rich that they would rather buy both formats? If I'm going to buy a movie, odds are really good I'd rather have it for my home theater. Maybe I'll rent at the airport...

#3 - It didn't fit the half-size disc tray slot. Didn't work on any standard drive, anyhow.

#4 - Only Sony films were released.

#5 - Your target demo was restricted within PSP owners. So if your movie appeals poorly to that demo, then what?

But hey, it's Sony. If Sony had made a way to transfer content, even if it's shackled by 2-ton DRM, from a movie you already owned, fine. But the reality was that there was no Fair Use with this format. Thus, it floundered.

No Fair Use = No Success. Hopefully those who are involved with HD&Blu pick up the lesson.

You're wrong on several counts.

#1 - Many ads now say "For PSP." Also, does it really matter that people don't know what a UMD is? No, because if they don't know what it is, then they don't have anything that plays UMDs, and thus have no business buying it anyway.

#2 - I agree. Currently I just rip my DVDs to my memory stick whenever I expect to watch one on-the-go. However, once Sony starts releasing DVD/UMD combo packs in the next couple months (for about $4-6 more), I may start to purchase those.

#3 - Uh, you tried putting a UMD cartridge in a disc tray? Why...

#4 - Several studios have released hundreds of movies in addition to Sony. Besides, Sony owns a couple, not just one.

#5 - It didn't appeal poorly to that demographic. I think the idea is awesome, just the UMDs should have only been sold for about $9 individually.

How often does the "fair use" crap work in the courts nowadays? Not very. Screw DRM. If I own the DVD, I'm ripping it to my memory stick to watch it when I don't have a DVD player available.

"#1 - The ads didn't say for PSP. They said "Out Thursday on DVD and UMD". Whaa? How many people actually knew what they were saying?"

Yeah, i mean, it's not like they didnt put a picture of the PSP on the screen, DIRECTLY BELOW THE UMD, you would have to be blind to miss it..

If HD-DVD will come out with the supposid downgrade in video quality when connected to an analog TV set I bet it will Fail as a Format.

Toshiba has already cleared up this issue: http://www.tgdaily.com/2...tes_for_first-gen_hddvd/

"Richard Doherty, Microsoft's senior programming manager for media entertainment and technical convergence, as well as an official AACS LA spokesperson, told TG Daily that the distinctions between 1080i and 1080p are not rooted in the format specifications for either Blu-ray or HD DVD. Both formats should have the theoretical capability of translating moving images at the highest available resolution for digital film, which is currently 1080p at 24 frames per second (1080p/24)."

UMD was never going to succeed, I'm surpised Sony even thought it would. Nobody wants to buy the same movie twice.

Blu-Ray (and HD-DVD) are a different matter, as these players play all your existing media, so it's a move forward without losing your existing investment.

As for bourgeoisdude's comments about Blu-Ray going the same way. I assume he's not been reading the news, HD-DVD is in serious trouble, it's not got the capacity of Blu-Ray, it's not got the studio backings, it's technically inferior. It's almost universally decided that Blu-Ray will suceed, due to it's PS3 standard integration, and the studio backing it's got.

HD-DVD lost the war, the day MS shipped XBox360 without it...

Whatever, Mark. I do agree that Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD is a different matter, but sadley this is the only common ground I can find between us here.

Nobody in this forum can really say for sure which one will win--Blu-Ray could have some stupid unexpected defect, and so could HD-DVD. Anybody's game. I also specifically stated that Blu-Ray MOVIES will likely lose to HD-DVD. Blu-Ray itself will live on through the PS3 no doubt, and will be used for mass storage as well.

BTW...out of curiosity, will you be buying that Panasonic Blu-Ray Player in September?

Mark, you make the assumption that most people will switch from purchasing a deck to watching movies on a game console. While the trend may be moving a little, the vast majority of people who watch movies do - and still will - watch on a player deck dedicated to simple movie play.

"...it's not got the capacity of BetaMax, it's not got the studio backings, it's technically inferior. It's almost universally decided that BetaMax will suceed, due to it's Hollywood standard integration, and the studio backing it's got."

;)

PS - look up your it's and its.

The format which has cheapest media to record on wins. BR to me seems a bit more "specialized" in that perspective which probably means that their discs will cost more to produce.

But thats just me. :)

Not for $1500. Waiting for PS3 @ $450 - $550.

This is what will trigger mass market acceptance of next gen systems storage.

It also won't be the price of recordable media, as recording hardware will still be sky high prices until long after the format war is won.

PS3 will be $600-$900 and will be at least a year out. That may be the death-knell for Blu-Ray.

People also already know the term "HD" and "DVD". HD-DVD sounds like the next generation DVD. Blu-Ray sounds like something out of Star Trek or perhaps a 70's funk band.

HD-DVD will win out, even if Blu-Ray is a better format. Just look at Betamax vs. VHS.

No it won't. It WILL NOT cost anywhere near $900. Console manufacturers don't make money off the consoles. They lost a lot. What they lose is made up in licensing and game sales. This is how its been done for a while now. I would say the PS3 won't start at above $450, and even that is pushing it. $350 would be a great selling price, which means Sony would lose a lot more on console sales, but definitely make up for the losses with game sales as there would be so many more games bought.

True, the XBOX 360 lost more than $150 per console, multiply that by how many consoles sold.. and that's a lot of lost money, but as you said, it was all made back, and then some, with the sell of games and extras.

I still think that in a year or so this headline will reappear--with "Blu-Ray movies" substituted where it says "UMD movies". Who can really know, though? Maybe HD-DVD players will have some crazily stupid defects or something.

"But a real issue among consumers was pricing, with UMD films priced as high, or higher, than DVD versions."

That, my friends, is why I still believe that HD-DVD will be the eventual victor over Blu-Ray. That is what seems to get Sony every single time. Who knows, if LaserDisc players were sold for only $100, we may still be using them today!

yeah, is all about correct pricing ...
if these UMD would've been half of DVDs, they would've sold like pancakes

Even then, I think not.

I don't want to buy a UMD, as I cannot play it on my home DVD player. I will buy the DVD, but not both, so you always end up buying DVD.

Plenty of people, myself included watch movies on PSP, but not on DVD (aside from the free copy of Spiderman 2, you get with it). We all watch them from memory stick.

The trick that Sony missed, was they could have used 8cm DVD's, which any desktop recorder could read/write to. it would be possible to write a burning app, that allowed buring from original movies, onto 8cm DVD's for play on PSP....