This will NEVER work out that well. Because it will cause most of us who want to even watch the movies to get brand new equipment. I dont think this will work out that well in the end. What a friend and I think is that its just their way of trying to stopg us from pirating DVDs to our own DVDRs... LOL @ THIS CRAP! NICE TRY SONY!

Blu-Ray will not stop you from pirating. It will help you store even more on a single disc.

What the hell is wrong with actually paying to get a movie?
What is wrong with hundreds of thousands, and maybe even millions, and maybe tens of millions of people that have high definition televisions and wanting to watch a movie in HD?
If you don't want to watch any high definition movies ever, don't buy any HD tv's or BD players.

Blu-ray, Schmoo-ray. Big deal. This ain't gonna make Hollywood's current, and never-ending stream of stale, re-hashed and stinkeroo movies suck any less.

The most stupid thing about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that Microsoft is going to lock video output on Microsoft Vista obliging users to buy new graphic cards to watch a movie over a crypted digital signal to their TFT displays. That's insane. That's not to stop piracy, which doesn't and won't, but to spy on customers.

DRM is a menace and must be crushed by customers. Everytime any Company/Corporation out there obliges people to use DRM products customers should complain and sue thru associations. People should blame politicians for DRM and request the DRM to be banned before it's too late.
If the DRM process is a success there will be no more freedom nor a free market, prices will get higher and smaller production companies smashed by those like Microsoft with no way to escape.

can you send a link to where you got this news? I would like to read it.

----

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26703

"Microsoft Vista will ignore your monitor

Blu-ray stingray of death "

----

http://pcworld.com/news/...cle/0,aid,122738,00.asp

" Most Monitors Won't Play New HD Video

Vista's content protection will block or blur high-def movies on today's displays.

Scott Spanbauer
From the November 2005 issue of PC World magazine "

------

" Most Monitors Won't Play New HD Video

Vista's content protection will block or blur high-def movies on today's displays."

BZZZZZZ

Wrong.

Vista has the capability to allow Content Providers to do so. It is *not* up to MS or Vista. It is up to the Content Providers.

That being said, I strongly feel most content providers will ignore that until the devices become as common as DVD players.

Don't spread FUD. Sit and think for a second...really, that's all it takes, man.

Yeah, sure. In fact Regional Coding never was activated, uh ?
Yes, it got hacked but it was active as much as the CSS encryption.

The hell does region coding have to do with it?

You said Vista wouldn't let you watch high-def on (I assume you meant) non HDCP monitors. I called bulls*** and explained why.

Capiche?

No, you said that Content Providers , so you bet, won't enable the feature to have more people buy the new HDTV capable media.
Did they not enable Regional Coding to let people buy more DVDs and switch from previous analogue VHS to the first mass market movies digital domain , perhaps ?
No, they didn't. They enabled Regional Coding, they enabled Macrovision protection commands on discs for the players. So if there weren't hacks and the ability to copy and re-edit disc contents these kind of protection would still be there, enabled, and no one would have been able to disable them. The same will be true for new crypted digital video out interfaces.

Point: Vista isn't doing it. Content Providers may.

Point: They did not stop production of VHS tapes when DVD's came out. The folks who didn't upgrade could still watch the movies.

Point: Consumers will still be allowed to watch high-def content on Vista because there will still be other media being sold that will deliver it.

They will not keep users from the content. That would be suicide. They will simply offer it in a more enticing format in an effort to create a new "standard" for content delivery.

As an aside, I firmly believe HD-DVD and Blue-Ray will make a rain-drop sized splash on the market if anything. No-one cares. This is nothing like the VHS-DVD transition.

Well, if you bought a new HDTV TFT 16:9 Tv set/screen then you should care about quality.
DVDs don't offer a true 16:9 format, the 16:9 is obtained by realtime stretching/interpolation/upscaling and it's only SDTV format anyway.
H.264 codec being used to deliver HDTV content at lower bitrates over the older MPEG-2 one is able to give owners of those new expensive hi-res TFT matrixes a real 16:9 high-quality version of movies, documentaries, music videos and so on.
There is a huge quality difference between the two when you are not watching titles on a classical old SDTV CRT or TFT display.
There are many people that care about stunning visual quality and as much as the technology prices get lower there will be more and more people wanting to have the best quality they can get. Otherwise people would have remained with VHS way longer. It was claimed that it would have taken 10-12 years or so to switch over to digital DVD from analog VHS and LD , instead it took 5-6 years approx overall.

lmao.

Ouch. There's a name for the guy buying a new HDTV expecting to be able to use it with Vista and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Sucker. One born every minute, I hear.

Vista ain't even out yet. Blu-ray/HD-DVD closer, but sitll not 100% set in stone. Only an idiot would expect compatibility. One can hope for it, but the expectation should only be that it will work with *current* technology.

If you buy an HDTV now, buy it for HD television. Not for some pipe-dream tech that it may or may not be compatible with in the future. Anything else is just plain stupid.

These are risks early adopters take.

It still has no effect on the fact that most current tech will run/display *JUST FINE* in Vista. You're not all-of-a-sudden not going to be able to watch your DVD's, or HD shows with your HD tuner card.

This making any sense to ya?

You are defending the fact that the industry wants to force people to trash their new hardware to get new one that's not technically needed just because they want to oblige the use of a stupid crypted digital interface "against piracy", so they claim. The truth is that this marketing policy is against customers instead, it's a real fraud.
There is no reason for a new crypted digital video out interface at all other than forcing people to either not watch the new movies they will be buying or trashing their new expensive hardware to get new one with the insane DRM crypted video out port.

DVD/UMD bundles would have to be a physical bundle as the discs are structurally different.

Yet another reason to hate Blu-Ray; Sony is going to use it to push their stupid UMD format.

Oh yeah, but LOVE Microsoft, the company that is going to screw every PC User in the world :)

Also, this IS rather a good idea, With The amount if PSP's that have been sold, Now when a consumer goes out and buys a BD-ROM Movie, they get it in UMD Format too, So that way, wether they are home or on the move, they can watch their movie. Kinda brilliant if you think about it. Also, THe PSP and PS3 will be compatible, using the PSP as an additional controller and Secondary screen, The PS3 is also a BD-Rom Player. So...yep

Brilliant for Sony but kinda stupid for the consumer's wallet. You're effectively paying more than once for the same movie.

If we moved to a standardised open format and companies like Sony didn't try to force people into their proprietory formats we'd be much better off.

You can double any of these prices for the UK....

And in Australia.

In 18 months it will all be resolved and one format will be the clear winner and the price will have fallen to normal levels.

Im one of these poor white people you always hear about, but never see lol. So I'll wait till the price drops, a lot.

The article omit some little detail: With the new technology, Sony will have a LOT of space in the disks to fill with spyware. Next generation (of Sony spyware) will be great, for sure!!
I will think 20 times before buying again a Sony product.

If it doesn't work with Windows, I ain't touching it.

It must work with Windows because companies like Dell as well as other computer manufacturers have future plans to include Blu-Ray drives in their computers.

Shhhhhh!! The Linux fanboys will scream at you if they hear that!

Who needs new toys all the time, anyway . . .

Only kids, who never grew up.

So - after all this corporation has spitted on your shoes . . . will you still buy their products?

And what for?

Instead of stopping the process of buying out our planet, people should stop developping more and more un-needed contaminating products.

Who needs this whole digital world, anyway? With circles that are not really round and squared sounds in every corner? And millions of tons of poisonous garbage, rubbish and trash?

Need it? - Need it? - Need it? - Need it? - Need it?

Is the "homo sapiens" so stupid not to find any other way to make his living? Too degenerated instead of "developped", I suppose.

Yesterday we stood at the brink of an abyss, today we are one step farther on . . .

technically were not homo sapiens, those lived thousands of years ago .... we're the next generation "Homo sapiens sapiens"
( altho some got stuck on the homo part )

"homo homo sapiens"

Hey...What's wrong with not growing up?

Doodoo-head. ;P

You big pee pee head.

lol

Yep, You're absolutly right. homo sapians means "Wise Men". So therefore we're "Wise Wise Men".

Yet we continually go to war, fight each other, consume vast amounts of unnecessary food and continue to destroy the environment.

I think we're just sapiens, though the women's rights movement will probably want to be called sapieneses.

Hi-Def is great and all, but it sucks to have to pay that kind of price. Plus all of the movies that I would like to get will be even more expensive because of the title and the fact that they will put it in fancy packaging and label it special edition...etc.

Oh..and UMD just pisses me off. Did we really need ANOTHER format.

Eff you sony.

There should be a trade-in promotion to allow those who bought original SDTV DVD movies to get the new HDTV version in either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

It's a fraud to not offer such a logical upgrade step to customers. Asking something like 30% of product value to upgrade to the new HDTV version to those owning the original SDTV version on HDTV would make sense, otherwise would be stealing on customers, obliging them to buy another copy of the same movie they already bought.

oppps sorry guys about the second post.

You could have edited the duplicate rather than make a new comment, making this a triple post. No biggie though. Just FYI.

Does this mean I won't be able to company rentals anymore?

lol, in two tries you couldn't type all the words you wanted to say correctly?

Does this mean he won't be able to coppy rentals anymore...?

Duz this....damn, it's harder than it looks!

does this mean I won't be able to copy rential anymore?

THIS ARTICLE IS MISLEADING. Straight from THG to clarify:

"Video Business Online broke the story this morning that the president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Benjamin Feingold, stated that new release movie titles would sell to resellers for $23.45, with catalog titles - older movies, generally including classics, that boutiques keep on hand - will sell for $17.95. VBO noted that, at current retail markup rates - which are lower than they have been historically - classic movies on BD should sell for prices averaging $30 - a 20% premium over standard definition DVD prices." - "http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/08/sony_pictures_sets_bd_wholesale_prices/"

(Toms Hardware Guide: "Sony Pictures aims for $35 retail for Blu-ray movies" by Scott M. Fulton, III. Created 8 Feb 2006 16:10)

Likely CONSUMERS will buy BRD for about $30 price tag. BetaNews is not blatently lying, but honestly, how many of you knew this? How many of you thought the movie would be available at Wal-Mart for $17.98 after reading this?

(Ed will give me a negative score in 3...2...1...)

Tom's Hardware Guide !== THWG.

Tom's Hardware Guide == THG.

Edit accordingly.

Article on BN says wholesalers. Article on THG says resellers. And the big dif. is what?

It looked like the article said "wholesale" price to me.

*checks again*

Yup.

I swear they changed it only after I posted...maybe I'm just skimming the article again...dunno.

My real point is that they will likely be $30 to $35, which you can buy entire DVD players for that much here in the states.

But why would you want to? Have you seen those $30 DVD players?

Two words:

Utter crap.

I aslo read it was wholesale, and that retail was only to be decided upon by the retailer themselves - creating some competition in pricing. Unlike Sony, since they always seemed to fix pricing to retailers.

Also keep in mind though: DVDs were that much when they first came out. For a long time, a buyer would have been hard-pressed to find a DVD movie for under $30.

IMO, the prices aren't unreasonable.

That being said, I don't plan to sponsor the Sony empire by buying one single Blu-ray disc.

...I can see that all attempts at clarifying my point are useless, I'm sorry I am so unclear.

moron.. a product of devolution

Are you saying you're useless? Nah....

Amusing, strange, bemusing, and confusing...but never useless. ;P

John!

I was beginning to miss you. You haven't called me a stronzo in weeks. I was beginning to think you stopped caring =(

Glad to see you're not gone. =)

What the hell is a stronzo??!?!?!? ;)

Ummm... ...not in mixed company.

Just search for an Italian to English translation of the word.

Let's just say: it's not nice. =O

Nope, babelfish hates me.

...and now my ear hurts.

Be sure to use your Blu-Ray in a clean room, so that the dust can't scratch it.

You'd have a point if it wasn't for TDK's coating solution.

Thank you, try again.

Yeah, that will last more than 30 seconds.

"Yeah, that will last more than 30 seconds"

??? Did I miss something?

I'm just used to gawd21 explaining his statements a little more...yep, I must of missed something.

I disagree with the idea of having to pay more for some kind of bundle with both dvd and bd discs. If you do a hybrid format with them both on the same disc (a la Sony's hybrid sacd/cd discs) it should be the same price or close to it.

That being said, the prices on the discs will fall fast, just like they did with cds, dvds, cd-r's, dvd-r's, and most other other new technologies.

As for having to buy an expensive player, I think there will be a number of people out there that will be willing to shell out for a Playstation 3.

My main problem is that I have an HD tv that only has component inputs. I do not have dvi or hdmi inputs on my tv, so no matter which hd format I go with, I will most likely be left out in the cold because all of the motion picture companies are more worried about piracy than they are about the consumers.

New disks?? Come on.. I would say moving over to HD based home system is the best way to go. So how long will we keep paying more for content?? TV costs ~$70 -$140 a month.. thats over $1000 a year for TV content. And you get the adds!! When googleTV buy's a GE we will start gettign free HDTV over the internet..

Oh guess what.. http://www.inphase-technologies.com/ has a disk that holds 300G - 1.7T..

so why are you buying the new "BetaMAX"?

Yeah, I have trouble understanding why people pay for TV and dont gripe about the adds. Its no wonder cabe/sat companies are rolling in the money. Businesses pay them to advertise and the public pays them to watch. It would be like buying a CD that had "radio" ads on it. I dont pay for TV, HDTV over the air is enough for me, if there is nothing on 25 channels find something else to do, chances are if you had cable you would only have an extra 100 channels with nothing on aw. Get off the sofa and DO something!

I have said it before, I don't watch TV because of the ads.

Paid for TV has ads anyway? g**d***, I'm glad I never bothered.

I've been hearing about Inphase for YEARS, until they actually have a product it's just a bunch of junk on paper. Holographic stuff is ages away so there's no point in even mentioning it.

I bet there will be hacks and hacked HDTV BD and HD-DVD players a few months after release allowing to send video output to any available video out port. There should already be DVI to Component converters AFAIK.

they should say what clean discs cost, thats some info i could really use, i could burn 7 dvds to a 50gig blueray, so i could imagine paying 3 to 4 USD for 1 disc, since i get my dvds at $.50, it would save both time and money.

I would maybe pay those prices for rewriteable holographic, when that & multi-gig Wimax get here I'll be all set.

Go-go-go Blu-Ray!

Expensive you say? Who cares when 50GB storage and QUALITY never seen before!

Agreed! I, for one, am willing to pay the premium for the quality.

Let the groundlings have their VHS and standard DVDs. If that is what makes them happy.....

Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, it makes no difference to me....I will by either one...or both..

Not a chance will people pay an extra $15 for higher resolution plus a $400 player. I mean, HDTV looks nice, but would I pay an extra $15 to watch the same movie in HD vs Standard DVD? No! And isnt it kind of shooting yourself in the foot bundling the old DVD with the new one? Isnt the old one the piracy problem? I'm having trouble understanding the logic of Sony here, what effectivly is better then HD-DVD? I understand it has more disk space...but now you have to sell bundles with an old DVD just to sell it. (More expensive in every way, and does nothing for piracy..note that was the big deal for Blue-Ray) I dont think the common person will say, "Aw crap, the only pirated version of this movie isnt in High Def, its not even worth downloading" This sort of reminds me of the Pentium 4 release "Tada! Its better because we say so! Look at this fancy word...NetBurst" And now after all these years they fall back to the Pentium M core (based on the Pentium 3)

Anyone that makes $100,000-$200,000 a year isn't going to flinch at a few thousand to enhance their enjoyment.

Well, that rules out me! :P

This is for single disc movies!? So I can buy some old as hell movie for $18 when I can get it on DVD for $4? This is not even the price for box sets of shows ect... This is just going to be really expensive and a complete waste of time for normal people. People are going to go to their local Wal-Mart and they are going to see the new formats and ask a clerk what the difference is. The clerk is going to say that they are better quality than a DVD but the blu-ray discs require a new expensive player while the HD-DVD discs do not. Let me see now...what are people going to choose? I think blu-ray is sunk. Only techies would buy the blu-ray equipment because of the superior disc space.

I don't remember reading anywhere that you can play HD-DVD movies in your existing player -- I think the deal was that they can make them in the same factories with a little tweaking. You'll still need a new player for HD-DVD movies as well. Both formats will face tough adoption if the movies are that expensive though. People are happy with DVD. It'd be one thing if DVD quality sucked, but it doesn't. It's very reasonable at worst, excellent at best. Replacing something "reasonable" with a premium priced player and premium priced movies will only entice people with premium sized wallets (not the general public).

Rothbart is correct, you can't play HD-DVD movies in DVD drives, you will need a NEW player, so matter which format you choose, you will STILL need a NEW player...

HD-DVD will be better, however, but it remains to be seen which format the industry will adopt.. One will eventually be the winner.

You are right HD-DVD and Blueray both use similar technology. Basically they both use blue lasers instead of red (a red laser can burn up to 2 layers of a disk and a blue laser can burn about 10 or so which gives it the better capacity, plus blue lasers can focus its beem tighter than red). Its going to be expensive at first just like cd players and media and dvd players and media were but in time they will both go down. Look at HDTV, when they first came out they were $20,000+ for a TV now they have gone down alot and will continue to go down as it gets closer to 2009 when they have to turn off the analog signals. Plus Muzicman73 is right people will buy the Playstation 3 because it will come with both a player and gaming which will be cheaper in the long run ($400 compared to $600 for the PS3). The only thing is I don't think the PS3 will have a writable drive it'll be read only. Most people will be happy with regular DVD until the new players and media go down. Its the trend with everything, new technolgy comes out and the rich buy it up when it goes down then the rest of the masses buy it.

If the disks are too expensive, people just won't buy them.

They would have to make it reasonable.

Look at it this way. When DVD R's first came out they were expensive, like now duel layer DVD's are expensive. A few months after Blue Ray and HD-DVD are in the market double layer DVD's wil go down. In about 2-3 years as trend would show with other technology blue ray and hd-dvd will go down in price for the rest of the mass'. Its just the way it is. Right now the technology is new and companies can get a premium for it, plus not many companies are making players and writers with blue ray or hd dvd yet. First the big companies will make them with all the bells and whistles, then other companies will make them with less bells and things (just stereo in stead of dolby for example) and prices will go down because companies like Panasonic and Philips will make cheaper ones. Then the media will follow and then the movies will get a little cheaper. Look at it this way in stead of having a 3 DVD set with all the extra stuff, it'll be on 1 piece of media which will be nice. Remember when VCR's came out they were over $1000 to buy one and now you can get one for less than $100.

sounds fairly reasonable!

Way less expensive than I expected, now all we need to see is the HD-DVD pricing.

Those are WHOLESALE prices, not retail prices.

Think more in the ballpark of 30-40 dollars for new titles.

I know the article says wholesale, but it's unusual to see wholesale prices like $17.95 and $28.95 which end in 95 cents. This is common practice for retail pricing but it's not so common to see it with wholesale. If there was only one .95 price here, I'd chalk it up to coincidence, but 2 of the 3 prices in this article end in .95 so it's possible that the "wholesale" mention was an editing mistake.

How often do you see retail prices ending with .45?

Even if it is, prices drop fast after a technology hits the mainstream consumer market. I remember when CDs and DVDs first came out they were 50-100% more than they are now. Besides plenty of people are already shelling out ~$15 for new release and ~$30 for a "specal edition".

I really doubt it was a mistake. The article also says it won't give a MSRP. SO what would the numbers be? I think they are definitely wholesale. I'm cheap and usually buy the $5 or $7 dvds from Wal-Mart so it'll be a bit of a price shock for me.

Read my comment about the 'misleading' article above...

Another thing you must consider is that Sony's Blu-Ray discs will never drop in price because of Sony's preparatory pricing scheme. If Blu-Ray wins and becomes king-of-the-hill and the discs are selling, Blu-Ray discs will always be expensive, opposed to DVD and HD-DVD which is an open standard so anyone can do anything they want.

$23.45 sounds suspicious to me. It's gonna be .99, which means an extra 54c on every sale. By my reckoning that's an extra 2.3% for the seller.

Blu-Ray will fall in price as well. DVD and HD-DVD being open standards.. well, that's not really true. There are royalties anyway for businesses.