Study Shows Piracy a Huge Problem

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

May 3, 2006, 1:39 PM

A study commissioned by the movie industry has left those involved both baffled and embarrassed, as the issue of piracy seems to be much bigger than anyone thought. Some industry executives have even advocated not releasing the information to the public.

Carried out by LEK Consulting for the MPAA, the study found that U.S. studios lose $6.1 billion annually, much more than earlier estimates of $3.5 billion in losses. Not only is the issue affecting ticket sales, the study found, but also DVD sales, which the studios have increasingly turned to for revenue.

Facing disagreement among its members, the MPAA has apparently halted a plan to publicly release the results. According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, while some studios said the study would help the case for tougher piracy laws, others feared the report would show that enforcement isn't working and hurt their bottom line.

The dramatically higher numbers are also a result of new methodology. The MPAA was previously only basing estimates on the result of raids, leading many to believe that countries like Russia and China were the largest piracy markets.

However, under the new methodology, that is no longer the case. In the U.S. alone, piracy losses are a staggering $1.3 billion, followed by Mexico with $483 million.

Such wild swings have even led some to question the validity of the survey's results. However, it should be noted that the previous studies did not factor in the effect of Internet downloading.

It is not clear how or when the MPAA will finally release the data to the public. The organization's head Dan Glickman has made piracy a central tenet of his two-year presidency, and the data could harm his and the MPAA's efforts.

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By Comit

posted May 5, 2006 - 1:37 AM

Discredited on the first sentence. Any study done by the victim industry, MPAA in this case, is quite likely to be skewed in their favor to help their cause. I can't even imagine how you'd get anywhere near accurate survey results for things all done underground.

Score: 0

By joeshmoe7

posted May 5, 2006 - 9:38 AM

exactly. But theres always suckers out there who believe the hype. Big suckers, like for instance, senators.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 11:04 PM

Piracy *is* a huge problem.

The problem...

...is that not enough people are doing it. ;)

*grins*

Score: 0

By Arakiel

posted May 4, 2006 - 7:28 PM

Study Shows Hitting Yourself With A Hammer Hurts

Score: 0

By p2punite.org

posted May 5, 2006 - 2:33 AM

That study is flawed, if you look you will notice that it was commissioned by the BIAA (Bandage Industry Association of America) and does not take into account the use of comedy blow-up hammers...

Score: 0

By Arakiel

posted May 5, 2006 - 9:31 AM

LOL, damn I missed that part :)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 9:36 PM

Feh...

I don't believe *any* studies.

*OUCH!*

...okay, maybe this one...

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted May 4, 2006 - 3:11 PM

The primary flaw in this kind of study is failing to realize that people will only consume that fluff if it is free, because that is what it is worth.

That is not 6.1 billion in sales of bootleg copies. It's 6.1 billion dollars of imaginary money that nobody spent and nobody would spend.

The MPAA had better think about what it really wants. If it gets it's DRM and Analog hole laws and nobody can watch movies without paying full price, people are going watch a lot less, and revenues will go down.

The US had better find something it can maufacture and export instead of movies, music, and other digital fluff that nobody really needs.

Score: 0

By rich2323

edited May 4, 2006 - 11:57 AM

I like watching movies. I typically don’t feel the need to "own" a movie. Once I have watched the movie once, I don’t need to repeat it. There are movies that I have purchased, and typically I use the purchased DVD’s to loan to friends to watch, and that’s it. I am not saying this is the case with all movies, just most of them. I believe most of the issues with movies/music piracy is accessibility. Give me what I want, when I want it. Having the ability to watch a new movie on my TV (kind of like on demand) any time I would like is what I want. I personally don’t want to have to go to the local movie theatre to see a movie. People want convenience, and downloading movies is convent. I am willing to pay for convenience.
--Rich

Score: 0

By wincement

edited May 4, 2006 - 10:19 AM

You know what's even more funny?

Everyone on here saying that the loss in revenue is actually due to poor movies.

If the movies are so horrible, then why the heck download them?

Selfish, whiny brats.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 4, 2006 - 6:54 PM

What sucks is that over 50% of the movies I get from Blockbuster online I feel as though I wasted "time on" as I could have put a better movie in my queue instead.

heh

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 11:29 AM

i dont, but i was more pointing out there numbers are biased and incorrect.

and of course that i miss fair use rights....

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted May 4, 2006 - 10:26 AM

That's the thing, people AREN't Downloading them. It's a waist of time!!! lol

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 11:02 AM

Waist?

Why, do you eat while waiting for the download to complete?

...or did you mean "waste"?

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted May 4, 2006 - 4:21 PM

lol smartass

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 4, 2006 - 4:52 PM

I know. Damn thing is always spouting off about "E=MC this", or "The square of the hyptoenuse must be equal to that".

Frankly, I find it as annoying as you do.

I sometimes wish I just had a normal dumb-ass like everyone else here. ;)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 4, 2006 - 5:02 PM

Yup. That's gonna be my new sig.

Score: 0

By SorenMD

posted May 4, 2006 - 10:01 AM

ok, listen up MPAA

movies suk = no revenue

got it? GOOD!

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted May 4, 2006 - 9:25 AM

Lol this is funny. You can't blame the the "Estimated Loss" on piracy. If there was somthing good to watch in theaters people would go and buy tickets! Movies are just getting horrible!!! I mean C'mon! Hollywood is getting soo bad they are making re-makes of Japanese Anime's because their writers can't think of anything better! Don't beleive me? Aeon Flux is based off of a Japanese Anime, So is UltraViolet. Now...I liked UltraViolet cuz that chick was hott, you guys know..the one from the Resident Evil movie. Which proves my next point. Movies are getting so bad that not only are we coming out with Japanime Movies, Also movies based on Video Games (at the same time nothing like the Video Game).

I blame the losses on Hollywoods Poor acting, Scripts, and Producers. On top of that, even if the movies were good. I would much rather see them on my Big Screen TV with my surroundsound or in a Theater than on my computer in a 200x128 Resolution, with horrible sound quality....Have any of you actually seen one of those downloaded movies? They're horrible! They make me wanna go buy the DVD! I mean, you see people standing up in the audience, people laughing, you can only see like half the screen. They suck!.

So back to my Original point. Movie Revenues aren't down due to piracy, Music I can see. But the Movie problem is in the Quality of the movies themself. The only movie with a good story that kept me interested was The Chronicles of Narnia, and that's only because it's a remake......

Score: 0

By p2punite.org

edited May 4, 2006 - 4:53 AM

[quote]I think that's totally idiot. Start your own business, I am coming by your store and I will just pick something up under the guise of "well I wouldn't have bought it anyway" and let's see how long your company survives.[/quote]
That is not the same.
[quote]The people that don't have a problem with Piracy, don't know what its like to have someone steal from you. Piracy, even if it is software, is STEALING. do you understand crime? Do you understand theft? Evidently not.[/quote]
Filesharing is NOT Piracy, no matter how much you have been brainwashed... I totally understand theft, and I also understand Copyright Inringement, I'm afraid they are TWO separate entities.
[quote]There is no "fair" when it comes to intellectual property. You see it as intangible, and therefore holds no value, its even MORE valuable because it can be duplicated and most of the time the company is unaware their product is being spread, illegally. Physical property is easier to understand because you can't duplicate it, since this isnt' the 26th century, we don't don't have matter replicators..yet.[/quote]
Of course there is fair use, company A's product is NOT being spread illegally, company A's copyright is being infringed.
[quote]You have an idea, you give it to someone. They take it, steal it, and you don't get credit, ergo you don't get money, ergo you don't get anything.[/quote]
Again, not the same as infringement...
[quote]Fair use, is made up by the general public, it doesn't exist except in your head. [/quote]
I'm afraid you're wrong again, it is legal for me to make a backup copy for my own personal use, as far as UK law is concerned it is enshrinhed in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988. So as for it being made up by the general public...
[quote]Just because the law can't be enforced in each and every persons home doesn't make it that less legal, its still STEALING. Obviously you dont' have a damn problem with stealing.. I feel sorry for your kids.[/quote]
Goebbels was correct when he stated "Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth", dont fall for the propaganda.

Score: 0

By Kramy

posted May 3, 2006 - 9:09 PM

I know someone online that owns $20,000 in DVDs.

For the rest of us that aren't so wealthy, thank god there's the net. ;)

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 11:35 PM

That's like only 1000 DVD's, maybe they spent years collecting, like I did.. I had almost 350 and I basically concentrated on building my collection.. ITs not hard, if you work at it..

It doesn't take unlimited income..

But you are condoning THEFT. So you think its justified that you can steal DVD and Software huh? That's great. Don't complain when someone breaks into your house, takes money from you..

What comes around, goes around. Piracy is Theft (stealing is wrong, in case you didn't know). Period, end of subject.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted May 4, 2006 - 9:29 AM

Yeah I have about 100 DVDs. and I still have like 20 Movies left on Casette. But I have about 1000 Music CD's that I own, had them forever

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 4, 2006 - 9:30 AM

Get a CLUE!

Piracy is not THEFT.

Piracy is not STEALING.

Stop falling for their SENSATIONALIST PROPAGANDA.

Piracy is Copyright Infringement. It deprives no-one of property or posession, and therefore cannot be classified as stealing.

Read the laws. Read the lawsuits. It is *never* referred to as theft or stealing. You really need to stop falling for their "Piracy is Stealing" ad campaign. It's BS. You of all people should know that.

I do not condone piracy, nor do I condone stealing, but I am *well* aware that the latter is *far* worse than the former.

I swear you're about to make me make this my sig....

Score: 0

By The Man

posted May 4, 2006 - 2:16 PM

THANK YOU!

Score: 0

By SorenMD

posted May 4, 2006 - 9:59 AM

AMEN PC_TOOL

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 8:07 AM

so is ripping us off on prices. so i guess its true that what goes around comes around eh? you could view piracy as payback to charging us $20 for a dvd that they already earned their money back and then some on the movie from the theatres.

me on the other hand refuse to pay $20 on a dvd so i just do without. its not illegal and it hurts them just as much as piracy does.

Score: 0

By Dirrty_Harry

posted May 4, 2006 - 1:45 AM

prick.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 11:03 AM

Yeah. That's helpful *and* informative.

....or are you just telling us all what your new nick is gonna be?

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 4, 2006 - 12:03 AM

I want you to know that I feel the puke coming up as I read your posts! You are so phuqing crazy that it makes me sick!

Score: 0

By 33Nick

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:16 PM

Hum, how about some real obvious solutions here:
1- make good movies with a good scenario (really needed now)
2- less big guns and lonesome justice hero and more fun and intelligence
3- less expensive movie theaters. Duh!
4- less expensive DVDs. Double Duh!

Yeah it's all about greed and paying your CEOs too much. Tackle the real problem and stop whinning. Do like we do here in the trenches and work...

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 11:39 PM

Therein lies another problem you only blame what you can see. Theaters dont' charge you an arm and a leg because they can, the studios are trying to recoup their billion dollars budgets, and they charge the theaters more money for the films, so therefore the theaters have to recoup their expense.

Theaters, make money from... (drum roll).. Concessions! That's right boys and girls, drinks popcorn, candy.. not tickets. They are barely breaking even on ticket sales, sometimes they take a loss.. whenever you see a big move go splash after a couple of weeks, chances are the Theater, wasn't planning on that.. they get the next big film hoping to make their money back.

Sure they make a profit.. but ask a theater owner/manager how much of that profit goes to make up for their losses...

One more thing, Fortune 500 list..you see anything missing?

Gee, I don't see AMC, General Cineman, Regal, or any of those other theaters on there.. hmmm..

Yeah, that must because.. they aren't making much money..

Score: 0

By The Man

posted May 4, 2006 - 2:26 PM

time/warner, walt disney, mgm, fox, they're in the fortune 500

the box office is just a middle man at the mercy of the production companies

Score: 0

By joeshmoe7

edited May 3, 2006 - 7:24 PM

I find the more propoganda they release, the more lawsuits, the less and less i go to see movies, and the less interested i become in anything cinema. Im down to about 1 movie a year now.

I wish everyone thought like me, but oh well. ;)
Theres more to life then movies and music. I can live without them if i had to. Screw them.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 3, 2006 - 7:12 PM

There is no need to pirate movies. If you want to see one put it in the top of your queue and wait a couple of days.

Score: 0

By gawd21

edited May 4, 2006 - 12:06 AM

Yeah, that is true only if you wait 6 months! It takes 6 or more months to get on DVD.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 9:20 AM

Dude...

If you can't wait 6 months to see a movie, you need help.

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 4, 2006 - 1:14 PM

I never said I had a problem with waiting, nor did I even insinuate such.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 2:57 PM

"That's true only if you wait 6 months!"

Explain how that does not come across as having a problem with it? Sure sounds like a complaint to me.

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 4, 2006 - 5:55 PM

It was just saying that it takes time, his post was making sound that it woudl happen in a day or two.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 6:01 PM

I'm sorry.

Let's test that, shall we?

IS THERE SOMEONE HERE WHO THINKS ANY MOVIE NOT YET RELEASED ON DVD CAN BE GOTTEN FROM ANY LEGAL SERVICE IN A COUPLE OF DAYS???

No?

Well, allright then.

See? My point is that you, in fact, have none. No-one thinks you can get a DVD in a couple of days unless it's already available for rental.

Admit it, you just like to stir things up. We all do from time to time. Best thing is to just admit it and be done with it. ;)

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 5, 2006 - 2:20 AM

I think you need some Prozac or Vicodin about now. Getting a little over board there.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 5, 2006 - 12:06 PM

Yeah, I have trouble dealing with people who refuse to use their god-given brains. ;)

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 4, 2006 - 6:56 PM

Ok, go to the movies then.

LOL

Sure, it costs ME $40 to go (da*n kids heh) but it's always an option.

heh

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 3, 2006 - 10:24 PM

eXactly.

...of course, there's always the option of payin ghte "Gotta have it now" tax in the form of having to drive to the rental store, but...

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 11:31 AM

well i suppose if you have it then you could order it on digital cable for like .99 to see it and only buy the movies you really like on dvd.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 2:58 PM

99 cents?

Damn!

Where do you get your on-demand from? It's, like, $4.99 per movie here.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 5, 2006 - 10:14 AM

comcast. actually it is like 1.49 or something. that may just be the pricing my work gets though, i dont have it at home so i watch what i can during lunch at work and such.

Score: 0

By roj

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:44 PM

"comissioned by the movie industry".

Propaganda.

Next...

You knows that's a huge problem?

Exorbitant movie theater and DVD prices. Stupid "copyright" laws that ignore fair use. "Let them buy another copy if theirs gets scratched". Arrogance. Greed. Poor story lines. Actor salaries. Cocaine.

The MPAA have no leg to stand on.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 3, 2006 - 6:23 PM

..when pushed.

But who's got the money to go up against them? The DMCA is unconstitutional, but being that it would cost a small fortune to get a case that tests it to the Supreme Court, pretty much makes it invulnerable.

Fair-Use isn't ignored. It's dead. At least in the United States.

Eventually, the insanity in the US will turn in upon itself and self-destruct. Worst-case, it'll spread.

Hell, france, not suprisingly, just "surrendered" to DRM... (get it? France... surrendered... shocking, right?)

Next...

Score: 0

By roj

edited May 4, 2006 - 3:12 PM

"At least in the United States"

We've had that discussion.

Get off your collective asses and get a clue.

Politicians work for YOU. Remind them of that, forcibly if necessary.

France has their own problems, not the least of which is (you guessed it) France. As you can see by the actions of Canadian artists, "we will never surrender".

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch my legally bought copy of "Serenity". That was one movie I deemed worth buying.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 4:03 PM

Serenity...good stuff, man.

"We've had that discussion."

Awww...C'mon.... It was fun! *grin*

"Politicians work for YOU."

You really need to come down here for a tick. It hasn't been that way for about 30-40 years. Politicians here work for coporations, lobbies, and special interest groups nowadays.

Remind them of that....yeah. Let's see: Wiretapping, unlawful detention made lawful under the Patriot Act.... Yeah, I suppose I could remind them. If I wanted to end up in some 4x4 room with no windows, no address, and no name for the rest of my life.

Score: 0

By zridling

edited May 3, 2006 - 4:54 PM

Except for Kung Fu Hustle, name me a movie I'd want to pirate!

Okay, maybe that one where Anna Nicole Smith trots around a skyscraper and flies helicopters.

Score: 0

By templar™

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:09 PM

Coincindentally, Kung Fu Hustle is one movie I WOULDN'T EVEN WANT to watch.

There are probably fans for every type of movies out there. Even those we consider junk.

Score: 0

By xyzcb1

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:24 PM

The problem is not privacy. The problem is the quality is bad in general. Many of my friends and I are big movies fan and own a lot of DVD from the 90s, but in the past few years, most movies are just bad. I think we saw like 2 to 4 movies in the past 12 months.

Wake up and make better movie.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:41 PM

"The problem is not privacy. The problem is the quality is bad in general."

lol, the spell checker works, but you replaced the typo with the wrong word. You meant "piracy" not privacy, right? :)

This sounds more valid. As I've said before--I do phone tech support for PCs and Laptops, and I have received an increasing number of calls where even "Mom and Pop" are wanting me to recommend a tool that will decrypt their DVDs. It cracks me up actually, that their attitude is like they EXPECT me to assist with potentially/likely illegal practices...

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 3, 2006 - 7:13 PM

"I do phone tech support"

There is not enough money in this world.

BLEH!

Do you hook them up at least? (joke)

Ripping copies of media you OWN is not illegal, though decrypting it is.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited May 3, 2006 - 8:31 PM

Yeah, I'm not saying it is the best paying job--it's unfortunately all I can get at the moment...

...and yes, I'm a system builder. Check me out, same screen name, at the TG Forumz (no URL as BN would/should cut it out)...I'm not the brightest bulb in the universe, but I try to follow the latest technology...

"Ripping copies of media you OWN is not illegal, though decrypting it is. "

I agree with that. I believe it should be legal to make a backup copy of your DVD home movies, therefore decrypting in and of itself SHOULDN'T be illegal, but it is--so I can't recommend it :)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:38 PM

No potentially about it.

DVDs are encrypted. The DMCA makes bypassing copy-protections unlawful.

Not that pointing Mom & Pop to a website would get you thrown in jail...

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:25 PM

"Not that pointing Mom & Pop to a website would get you thrown in jail..."

Naw, that is unlikely--but I could easily lose my job :(

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:38 PM

Well then, just tell them DVD backups are illegal, and if they get a scratched DVD they must simply buy a new one.

You might also want to point out that while it is currently illegal, it was not always this way.

It usually leads to questions about "why". Which are always fun to answer... and usually not something you can get fired for.

Score: 0

By fewt

edited May 4, 2006 - 6:58 PM

I wonder if anyone has considered a "recall" class action suit because it's illegal to back DVDs up yet you can't get them replaced under any warranty when they get scratched.

Just food for thought. I click click click, wait (for the mail) myself. Buying movies is not a good investment IMHO.

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:15 PM

Ummm..this has been a *HUGE* problem for about 2 decades now..

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:30 PM

hey man give the world some credit, it started out small. i mean you couldnt copy records or 5.25 floppies...

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 3, 2006 - 7:14 PM

You couldn't copy 5.25" floppies? WOW, this has to be some sort of joke but I'm missing the punchline here.

LOL

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:25 PM

???

Ever hear of the cassette tape? I have many copies of albums. Thanks.

5.25? Please... I had 6 of those drives in my first Tandy. Try...just try telling me I couldn't copy one.

Wow... Were you around when Records and 5.25 drives were?

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 9:04 PM

yeah but i never had enough 5.25 drives....

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:36 PM

It doesn't matter how it starts or how small, piracy is piracy and stealing is stealing. PERIOD!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:29 PM

"piracy is piracy and stealing is stealing."

...but piracy is not stealing. :)

Just thought I'd clear that up.

/me grins.

While both are bad, one is arguably far worse than the other, so calling them both stealing does piracy an injustice, since it deprives no-one of property or possession.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:38 PM

yep i agree, but it wasnt a huge problem that long ago it was a small one

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 3, 2006 - 7:16 PM

noooooo, ever go to a users group meeting in the 80's?

WOW, you would not believe how much software was openly passed around. Disks were passed around like a .. NM heh.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 7:53 AM

i was born in the middle of that so no i didnt. only reason i know about 5.25's and records is cause i have stuff passed down from sibblings

Score: 0

By tipsyboy

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:17 PM

Yeah!

The more we should allow them to search our houses and every single room in the USA - better world wide - to find evidence and make those on whom they find anything illegal their working slaves. Taking some 2 or 3 million slaves would save them a lot of money. Wouldn't that be a real historical follow up to the riches they got some generations ago from those cotton fields?

Come on, people - show more pity for the hard working corporations of this poor, poor planet. Go and offer them your help by freely signing as slaves. Work for nothing so these poor people can afford to eat a decent bite again. Show some solidarity with them and turn yourself in as their slaves!

Yeah!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:56 PM

lmao..

Of course, according to them, every single download of a DVD is a lost sale. Which we all know is absolute bull.

While, "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" is not a valid argument for piracy, it does bring those numbers the MPA and RIAA use down by a rather hefty amount.

They also, usually, though perhaps not in this case...since they aren't releasing the data, forget to include things like how increased sales in the online market, and increased revenue from services like Netflix, could be accounting for a good portion of the loss in DVD sales.

With Moviebeam out now, and TV series eps being downloadable, we can easily expect the next round of numbers to be even more "staggering".

Good stuff, man.

Score: 0

By dwaterman

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:39 PM

Nice post PC... I would have to agree that the "wouldn't have bought it" excuse is not valid one when it comes to justifying piracy, and every illegal download is certainly not lost revenue. How do you determine how many people that used to go to the movies, rent DVDs, and buy DVDs are now dloading this stuff from the internet? It is impossible to do accurately, their numbers are bogus. Sure their revenue has dropped, but at least partially due to the reasons PC already mentioned. They had better hike up their skirts and figure out how to compete rather than suing potential customers.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 3, 2006 - 6:26 PM

Good luck with that. I wouldn't hold your breath. The DMCA basically locks in their ability to continue their current business-model of extortion and abuse indefinately.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:23 PM

they forgot to factor in the revinue they make sueing people and the money they make overcharging us. and really as long as the artists arent making 75% of the money then im not buying anything. i believe in supporting the artist not some jackass who sits in a puffy leather chair all day puffing cigars doing jack s***.

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:23 PM

*Of course, according to them, every single download of a DVD is a lost sale. Which we all know is absolute bull.*

How the F#$k do you figure? If you produce a movie, and someone DOESN'T buy it, that's a LOST sale, where is the confusion? Lost or sale?

*While, "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" is not a valid argument for piracy, it does bring those numbers the MPA and RIAA use down by a rather hefty amount.*

I think YOU need to check your prescription, there, or move to a warmer climate. Why wouldn't a person that could have conceivably paid for an item, not be considrered "valid"? Everytime someone steals, its lost revenue for ANY company. I want to see you own a business, then I will take one of your products off the shelf for free, you telling me that you bought that item at your cost, and by not selling it, you won't notice any lost revenue? Multiply that to about 20 times a week.. What is in that coffee you are drinking?

*They also, usually, though perhaps not in this case...since they aren't releasing the data, forget to include things like how increased sales in the online market, and increased revenue from services like Netflix, could be accounting for a good portion of the loss in DVD sales.*

That's because they don't.. instead of buying in store you buy ONLINE. Its not additional sales, its alternative. How how is spreading false hoods and controversy? Netflix is rental, not purchase. In fact, if people rent the DVD, they MAY buy it. A good percentage of people prefer to try something out first, since they can't do this with software, that's why the reduction in sales, because once you bought, you have to keep it and you can't return it.

Software companies need more Demos, to try the software, People pirate, they may not want to buy it after that, but maybe the high price of software also contributes.

I think its funny you promote FREE Google searches and they sell your information for profit, but bonafide companies who lose billions a year to piracy, don't get any sort of compensation? WTF! I bet you pirate don't you? How much stuff have you stolen, 1000, 10's of thousands?

You are a regular tech with an eye patch aren't you?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 4:09 PM

"You are a regular tech with an eye patch aren't you?"

Only one day a year. Yarr!

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:44 PM

I think you need to put on your glasses and take your Prozac today. You aren't reading peoples posts and you are jumping off walls that aren't even there. Calm down little guy.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 3, 2006 - 5:37 PM

I think you confuse "steal" with "infringe".

Some people download MP3s because the "can". There's a guy here who has Gigs upon gigs of them. I know for a fact had piracy not been an option he would not posess 90% of his collection.

But RIAA would count every song in it's calculations of how much piracy is costing them...even though the music would never have been purchased anyway.

It's like the BSA claiming every PC that doesn't have Windows on it is a theft of revenue from Microsoft.

Score: 0

By dwaterman

posted May 3, 2006 - 4:13 PM

rijk, do you know the difference between copyright infringement and theft?

Every illegal download is NOT a lost sale. Could have bought and would have bought are different and largely immeasurable.

Thank you for your mainly uninformed opinions, they make your rants fun to read.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:29 PM

no by "i wouldnt of bought it anyway", it means someone who downloaded it, if they couldnt get it for free would have just gone without it. that isnt really a full lost sale, sure they had the item stolen from them, but they wouldnt have sold it to anyone anyway.

and although i stretch fair use rights to mean i can have things like music and windows on MY laptop AND MY desktop, cause nobody uses them but me, i dont pirate.

i come from a veiwpoint that i dont share or steal, but i sure as hell am not going to let someone tell me what to do with something i bought, after i bought it.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:36 PM

FYI:

Fair-Use was trumped by the DMCA. It is illegal to bypass copy-protection. All DVDs are encrypted, this is a form of copy protection. Ripping the DVD is illegal.

Sucks. But at least most music still sells on CD, and thus can be copied under Fair-Use. For now...

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:43 PM

I think that's totally idiot. Start your own business, I am coming by your store and I will just pick something up under the guise of "well I wouldn't have bought it anyway" and let's see how long your company survives.

The people that don't have a problem with Piracy, don't know what its like to have someone steal from you. Piracy, even if it is software, is STEALING. do you understand crime? Do you understand theft? Evidently not.

There is no "fair" when it comes to intellectual property. You see it as intangible, and therefore holds no value, its even MORE valuable because it can be duplicated and most of the time the company is unaware their product is being spread, illegally. Physical property is easier to understand because you can't duplicate it, since this isnt' the 26th century, we don't don't have matter replicators..yet.

You have an idea, you give it to someone. They take it, steal it, and you don't get credit, ergo you don't get money, ergo you don't get anything.

It doesn't matter if you keep the software for yourself. If you have a radio in your car, you can't have it in your house, because you can't duplicate it. Fair use, is made up by the general public, it doesn't exist except in your head. Music, movies, etc.. does NOT belong to you. Its a license in the original form, on the media you bought, Period. there is no copy for personal use, read the federal warning on *ANY* music or movie disk. It clearly states, unlawful duplication of this CD/DVD is STRICTLY prohibited. Federal does NOT supercede the manufacture of that CD. Federal only states that YOU *CAN* make a copy *IF* - repeat- *IF* you have written permission from that manufacturer.

Just because the law can't be enforced in each and every persons home doesn't make it that less legal, its still STEALING. Obviously you dont' have a damn problem with stealing.. I feel sorry for your kids.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited May 3, 2006 - 5:34 PM

It is *NOT* stealing.

Again, I feel I must state I am against copyright infringement, but to claim it is *STEALING* is wrong, and does not give credence to *ANYTHING* you say.

To steal something is to deprive another of it's possession. When you download a song, you have deprived no-one, which is why it *CANNOT* be classified as stealing. It is Copyright Infringement *only*.

Sadly, Labelling someone as an "Infringer" just doesn't have the same ring to it as a "Thief" or "Pirate", so the RIAA and MPAA... predictably... choose to ignore the difference and go for sensationalism. Imagine that...

Taking something from me and copying something of mine are two totally seperate things.

***nitpick: Fair-Use superscedes the warnings on every DVD you see, but is being eroded. Personal backups are still legal, no court has yet ruled them otherwise, but that right, if the Content Industry has it's way, will be short-lived. Fair-Use is dying. The DMCA, stating it is unlawful to bypass copy-protection basically destroyed it's use on DVDs. Still there, but now pretty much useless. Thank god some software/music still ships without such protections.

Score: 0

By Mandeep

posted May 3, 2006 - 4:25 PM

i feel sorry for you and the fact that nobody cares for what you have to say

Score: 0

By dwaterman

posted May 3, 2006 - 4:22 PM

Clearly you don't understand the difference between copying and stealing... in theft real property is removed, a copy of an original is copyright infringement.

Thanks again for flexing your opinion.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

edited May 3, 2006 - 4:05 PM

well im sorry but i cant afford another $100-200 for another copy of windows and another $200 for another copy of office, and another $60 for another copy of norton, on top of the cost of my laptop, because i need it for work on the go. i do own my own busines and there is no piracy involved other than my laptop that is only used for email. maybe if they offered a consumer friendly license fee for using it on another computer for like $25 or something i would be able to pay for it, but frankly my company isnt doing well enough to cover that right now.

im sorry but if corperations didnt ass-rape us to begin with on prices then maybe i would be able to afford it.

you just seem to be pissed for some odd reason. maybe you got ripped off on software somewhere?

and unlike you i dont have enoguh money to support kids so i dont have them, as i dont believe my kids should have to have a crappy life because i had them before i had the means to support them.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited May 3, 2006 - 4:29 PM

"well im sorry but i cant afford another $100-200 for another copy of windows and another $200 for another copy of office, and another $60 for another copy of norton, on top of the cost of my laptop, because i need it for work on the go. i do own my own busines and there is no piracy involved other than my laptop that is only used for email. maybe if they offered a consumer friendly license fee for using it on another computer for like $25 or something i would be able to pay for it, but frankly my company isnt doing well enough to cover that right now."

This is the type of attitude that bugs me more than anything, and it is likely why he is bugged as well. "Situational Ethics" is the term that comes to mind.

Fact is, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it--even if you _NEED_ it as you say (which I'm 90% sure you don't), it still does not merit stealing.

If you are dying of starvation, stealing is wrong. If you are doing jumping jacks while naked and the phone is ringing, it is wrong to steal. If your belly button has excessive lent on Tuesdays, it is wrong to steal. If your Aunt Sally asks for money to build a nuclear weapons facility while giant pandas are knocking down your back door--you get my point yet?

Stealing is stealing. It cannot be "somewhat" stealing or negative stealing, it cannot be both stealing and not stealing at the same time. It is always wrong 100% of the time, period.

I'm sorry and I don't mean to appear condescending here, but it is time that people should come back to the basics--why not just follow the rules instead of making millions of exceptions to rules?

(BTW--if you need to, use another AV program thats cheaper like AVG Professional for your business. Also try OpenOffice.org, and if you have a legal copy of Windows 98 or Windows Me, buy an upgrade version of Windows XP and save some $$$).

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:31 PM

well i have more than one job, and i need xp for rdp and office for my access inventory control db, unless you know of something that will interface with access for cheep.....

and really if someone is dying of starvation and they need to steal, mabye you should ask why they cant afford it?

point is we shouldnt be paying the same price as we did 5 years ago for an os that has only minimally changed and the dmca should be repealed

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 4, 2006 - 6:07 PM

"we shouldnt be paying the same price as we did 5 years ago for an os that has only minimally changed"

Pretty much up to the folks selling it.

Not you. Obviously, many people are paying for it.... This does *not* help your argument. It makes you look like you one of those folks that thinks you're entitled to something just because you *want* it.... even if you *want* it really badly.

No-one needs to steal software, movies, or music. It is *not* required to survive.

Don't try to justify it. It's an unjustifiable position. You'll simply dig yourself deeper by trying.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 5:25 PM

Relativism.

The belief that morals and ethics evolve over time with a changing society.

This is most noticeable in situations such as slavery. Many people still think, "It was the right thing to do back then because morals were different back then."

Of course, it is utter bullsh*t. Morals and ethics do not change. Societies tolerances of excess and their comfort with breaking from them do.

Stealing is wrong. Always has, and always will be, society be damned.

Copyright Infringement is something entirely different. I can't really blame anyone for not knowing the difference, because the Media has just about everyone brainwashed. I just didn't expect to see rijp, who usually has it together, miss this one so completely.

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:53 PM

I would have to call bulls*** on this! Bittorrents are 1/3 of what they were last year at this time, Limewire is .0001% of what it was last year at this time. P2P has slowed so much it's not funny, Yeah you have those rapidshare sites and all, but most people don't want to pay money for the accounts there and then they don't want to spend three days downloading a movie or cd, those site make you wait over and hours to get each 90 some meg file. File sharing if nothing like it was a few years ago. Given that they aren't making as much money, did they forget that gas is anywhere from $2.70 - $3.80 a gallon as well as the cost of living has more than doubled in the past three years, with little to no increase in pay for most Americans. All of these things added up, say that people will buy less movies and music.

Score: 0

By rijp

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:45 PM

Just becaue bit torrent, limewire is out of business, doesn't mean piracy is out of business, you dimwit.

Newsgroups, bearshare, I can find about 100 OTHER programs that take the place of those others winmx..Those are ones you recognize, but it still persists.

Score: 0

By gawd21

edited May 3, 2006 - 5:26 PM

Look retarded 17 year old that lies all of the time about your age and experience, I didn't say that no one pirated! Learn to read. I said it is less much less than it was this time last year. Damn you are freaking stupid! I used the two P2P programs/networks that were the most popular, I am sorry that your little brain is unable to comprehend this! Bearshare uses the limewire network you twit!

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:22 PM

Based on your immature response to rijp's immature post, I'd say however old he is--well, you might be around his age...

...Really though, why all the personal insults? Do you think he puts more trust in what you have to say if you call him a 17-year-old, lying, freaking stupid twit? And rijp, you expected a nice response when you call people twits? Yeah, that'll go over well...

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 4, 2006 - 1:05 AM

Frankly he is 17 and does not read it any way. So it matters little to none what I post in reply to his. As far as maturity. I would have to say trying to point out another's points out yours as minor as it is. However thanks for trying and I will be sure that your high school teacher knows that you gave it your all.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 8:37 AM

wait how does that work? pointing out someone for being mature doesnt make you immature. but random insults instead of well constructed debates do.

not saying i dont give in to the occasional insult, but im 19 im allowed to...:-P

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:30 PM

You new here?

While I give you credit for persistance, I dock you some for sticking to a futile endeavor.

Trying to get these two to be civil in topics such as these is like trying to corral tornados. ;)

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:33 PM

oh youve tried that too eh?

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 4, 2006 - 1:06 AM

This is crazy, seeing how this is your first or closet to first post on BN with that name.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 4, 2006 - 8:02 AM

huh? ive made quite a few posts under this name. like in the hundreds....

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:22 PM

Nah, I stick pretty much to cloud-bursting now.

...much easier.

Oh, and levitating wrenches. Just don't do it in your sleep. Hell of a wake-up call.

Score: 0

By gawd21

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:28 PM

PC_Tools is just smart enough to know better. I am an a****** 100% and he knows that.

Score: 0

By flyingmetalspatula

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:43 PM

Typo??
" In the U.S. alone, piracy losses are a staggering $1.3 billion, followed by Mexico with $483 billion."

probably should say "followed by Mexico with $483 MILLION"

Score: 0

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By M.Sweazey

edited May 12, 2006 - 5:37 AM