Not buying any more HD's :)

This is Awsom! I can't wait to get my hands on this when it becomes available... what a break through. I'm looking forward to the first TeraByte Drives.

wow! did sony add something to davebg's water? or is it a side-effect of 405nm laser?

The disc is TDK. I am TDK backer ;)

So you actually invested in them, or are there actually TDK fanboys?

Scratch issue still exists.
Prefer the use of caddy on expense of manufacturer for making such an expensive media.

Nice!!

But $2xx each??

If i buy ONE disc of this i have to buy a "high expensive ultra security box" to preserve the life of that disc since if it affects and he becomes unusable i have to KILL ME !

And Sony has yet to win a format war...

Latz, SB

Sony _has_ won the war.

In a very few months, the market will be flooded with 10's of millions of blu-ray drives, thanks to the PS3.

That will be an impossible hurdle to overcome for the hd-dvd guys.

10 million sh*tty blu-ray drives you mean. Nobody buys a game console for playing their movies on. If you think the PS3 is going to play movies as well as a standalone player that costs twice as much your crazy. The other manufacturers would go ballistic if Sony tried to undercut them like that. As for 10s of millions of PS3s in a few months, yeah right. That's the most hilarious thing I've heard a fanboy say in a long time.

Whilst 10 million may be pushing things. 2 million IS realistic. What makes you believe the PS3 will not be a kick-ass Blu-Ray player?

Looking at the logos it sports, it supports Dolby True-HD, and DTS-Master Audio, which may current Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players don't even support.

I wouldn't bet on it. They've delayed the European launch until March 2007 because of component shortages, and the US will be limited to 400,000 units and Japan 100,000.

It's like watching a trainwreck.

I'm doing a part-time in a computer-parts retail stores here in japan on weekends, and the Blue-ray discs/recorder are selling quite good. it's like only about $1000 per drive so with the cheap prices, a lot of people are buying it. However, I'm still waiting for some newer technology to come out. If they can make pretty durable discs that stores like 200GB, there should be some technology that allows you to carry all your data on a disc and got your favorite OS with data and everythinng on it and just stick it in and can use it everywhere. I mean, otherwise, what's the point of a 200gb thing?

"TDK claims that the discs can last more than 50 years and have no performance degradation after being overwritten 10,000 times."

SEE HERE:
http://www.tomshardware..../09/01/tdk_200gb_bluray/

Marketing claims are so reliable.

TDK products are crap, whoever said the Japanese make superior products was WRONG. TDK, Sony, Kyocera all SUCK...

And who is toshiba? Cheap bateries? Toshiba is the smelest of all brands ;)

You are right that HD-DVD is leading in sales.... all 400,000 units by end of the year (that’s being VERY GENEROUS). The Playstation 2 helped put DVD’s into everyone’s home and was instrumental in the early years in getting DVD established to replace VHS. Now that the technology to move forward to a new medium is here, Sony steps up again and introduces Blu-ray into the homes of millions. Meanwhile Microsoft won’t even support its OWN format for its games or bother to include it in their system.

In the first 2 months alone Sony will be shipping 2 million(ish) Blu-ray units inside the PS3 and it WILL sell out and in every market around the globe, with more to follow every month. Has HD-DVD sold millions of units around the globe after being out for many months? NO! Sony will gain a massive lead of Blu-ray units in the homes of millions around the world within a very short time frame because of the attraction the PS3 and all its technologies offers.

There simple isn't enough reward or drive behind HD-DVD players for most consumers and especially gamers to justify buying an add-on unit. The people that buy new technology like new media players are mainly young adults. With what the PS3 offers there is more than enough incentive for a very large consumer demographic to go ahead and invest in Blu-ray and the PS3.

Ya I think TDK is being smart in developing 200gig Blu-ray discs. Do you see any potential HD-DVD units selling like the PS3 will?

Again the Sony supporters are comparing a game console to a movie player. Hello? This is NOTHING like DVD and the PS2 so don't try pushing that either. DVD had NO competition. People buy the PS3 to play games, it's not going to save Blu-Ray as a movie format. Sorry.

" it's not going to save Blu-Ray as a movie format. Sorry."
you a fortune teller?

Man i cant get enoug of people like you! BD do not need SAVING, the point is that most hardware is Blu-Ray and is something like 100:1 in flavour of BD! Who will get your Toshiba player when there is Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, and many more - no one!
Just wait soon for the big BD release and HD DVD is done!

Well that 100:1 hardware doesn't seem to be doing them any good, because Blu-Ray titles aren't selling. I don't care how much hardware is out there, Blu-Ray is twice as expensive and the picture quality sucks compared to HD-DVD. The consumers will decide, not the hardware people. Blu-Ray has already lost.

The Sony fanboys must be fortune tellers, the way they are yapping about how great the PS3 will be and how it will put Blu-Ray in every home. Personally I think the overpriced piece of crap is going to flop BAD but let's wait and see.

i'm looking forward to it, although i have no grand expectations.
i do like my ps2, and if that's any indication of the ps3, i should like it too.
seems like a bargain at $499 - blu ray, dvd, cd, ps1, ps2, ps3, and maybe more??

Haha yeah thats why Blu-Ray have the big $$$. And the quality of HD DVD sucks more if you ask me :) HD DVD is having its last days you see :)

You may need to get your eyes checked then. The reviews are almost unanimous that the Blu-Ray mpeg2 movies look like crap in comparison to HD-DVD.

"As Blu-Ray sank beneath the waves, scuttled by the HD-DVD fleet, Captain Sony shouted out "HD-DVD is having it's last days!"

You check you eyes. As i said the comparison betwen 30GB HD DVD vs the smalest 25GB BD is nothing more than false statment. Anyway most people can NOT tell the diference... Why not compare 50GB BD vs 15GB HD DVD - oh wait i know why... 15 GD HD DVD CANT fit a movie? Is that why?

"nothing more than false statment"

Yeah, all those reviewers and users are lying.

"Anyway most people can NOT tell the diference"

That must be a great gift to be able to speak for everyone.

"Why not compare 50GB BD vs 15GB HD DVD"

Movies on DVD are released on dual layer, and now movies on HD-DVD are released on dual layer. Big whoop, stop the presses. The single layer media has a different purpose in life, as blank discs for burning data. It's also funny that you are asking why we don't directly compare single layer to double layer media.

"Yeah, all those reviewers and users are lying"

Not all. See here: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/tearsofthesun.html
"'Tears of the Sun' finally delivers on Blu-ray's promise to deliver top-notch video quality."
"... this Blu-ray release, which delivers the best transfer I've yet seen ..."

"The single layer media has a different purpose in life"

Thats why "all those reviewers and users are lying" cos where HD DVD wins is DL vs SL!!!

Wow, one good movie transfer finally, compared to the 80 HD-DVD movies that are out now. Big whoop. Oh and it has nothing to do with layers genius, it has to do with the CODECS they use.

Ahhh.. Its the codecs thats all about? Then whats the problem? BDs supports the SAME codecs like HD DVD ;) genius! And additionaly Blu-Ray can use "x246" wich by the way is better than VC-1 ;)

The problem is Blu-Ray isn't using them. It does not matter what codecs Blu-Ray supports until studios actually use them. Try a little harder next time.

CD burners used to be $10,000. In 1997 a 6.4 GB hard drive was $450 and now you can buy a 750GB hard drive for the same price.

However, I do not expect a 200GB disc to find enough mainstream to come down in price to be reasonable. Dual-layer discs serve an obvious purpose and they've been very slow to come down in price and cost several times more per MB than the single layer discs.

I expect the single layer 25GB discs to become mainstream and perhaps reach $5 by 2010. (I also predict that dual-layer discs will replace single-layer discs as more people have DVD burners and wish to back up their collections)

25GB BD-R at $5 by 2010 ? Are you serious ?
It will cost $1 by 2008 if not sooner. There will be a rush at getting the new BD/HDDVD hybrid burners that Pioneer just announced.
I am going to buy one myself as soon as it reaches the $299 price mark.

Prices will drop faster do not worry...

i'll just wait for my 50 tarabyte protein coated disc to hit the market.

At BR 2X Speed of say 9 Mb/s,
it will take about 6 hours ++ to save 200GB.
Tape replacement perhaps....

For movies, potentially a season's worth of
TV series maybe...

The vendors ought to be focusing more on transfer speeds rather than capacity.

In the meantime, DVD reigns.....

Hahaha now those HD DVD camp boys got to cry big :)
Single BD can fit 6 and a half of the biggest HD DVDs!

Yes, they are all crying because some product that isn't even available yet and will probably cost a small fortune and be unreliable holds more, which has absolutely nothing to do with the home movie market since that space isn't needed for HD content. Yeah they're sobbing, I can hear th, oh wait. No their laughing at all the Sony fanboys who are eating this marketing drivel up while HD-DVD is burying them in sales.

Who cares? The product is coming and it's a good thing for everyone, not just silly fanboys who only stay on one side of the fence (like Blu-ray or HD DVD fanboys).

"and be unreliable"

DURABIS_2 wich BD has is more than enoug. And what HD DVD have to protect data? - NOTHING :)))

"isn't needed for HD content"

Well what is needed? those 15GB HD DVD cant even fit a single moovie, and we are just on the begining... Only 30GB HD DVD still are usable.

There are over 70 HD-DVD movies out right now, and you sit there and say they can't fit a single movie. Stop being ignorant.

All of them are 30GB media. Just do some research.
Only the best HD DVDs are comparable with BDs.
And what do you expect? You compare the best HD DVDs against the worst BDs? Why not compare 15GB HD DVD with 50GB BD? And then see who wins in quality and extras!!!
Oh, no compare 100GB BD against 15GB HD DVD in 2007 and then judge ;)

What is your point? I didn't say they weren't on 30GB media, what the hell does that have to do with anything? The 15GB discs are not for movies, they're blank media for burning data. My point was HD-DVD is sufficient for HD movies and you cannot dispute this, the 15GB blanks have nothing to do with it. Keep thrashing away though with completely meaningless arguments. Way to go you.

In the same way we can say that the 25GB BDs are for data ;) Cant we?
And then when 100GB come online 50GB DLs will go for data ;)

So BD can have 3 types of media for movies - cheap (SL cheaper than HD DVD), middle 50GB media, and expensive 100GB for the future.

HD DVD have ... one 30GB media wich is going to fit 30% of the future movies.

Just like DVD had one media for movies and we all saw how badly DVD did in the market. Oh my god it was such a disaster...

Yes but DVD was fine. HD DVD have problems:

"The rival media's physical storage constraints have the potential to be a greater issue in this struggle than many observers have considered up until now. Before HD DVD's launch, I had privately heard rumblings of studio concerns about HD DVD's lower capacity.

Now that I've taken a closer look at the first eight HD DVD movies I received from Warner Brothers and Universal, I can understand why. None of the eight titles could fit on a 15GB single-layer HD DVD, and half came within a mere 5GB of maxing out a 30GB dual-layer disc--even though all relied on the latest, more efficient video codecs (VC-1 and MPEG-4 AVC). The movies were The Last Samurai (which topped out at 27.3GB), Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles (25.4GB), The Phantom of the Opera (24.8GB), Jarhead (24.7GB), The Bourne Identity (22.7GB), Serenity (19.6GB), The Fugitive (18.2GB), and Doom (16.5GB)."

http://www.pcworld.com/a...112-page,1/article.html

Doesn't matter, Blu-Ray is falling on it's face in sales. The consumers are the ones who choose the winner, not the studios. They'll be crawling on their hands and knees to support HD-DVD before long.

"The consumers are the ones who choose the winner, not the studios."

Yes. Do you think that the consumers does not want extras and additional bonus content on their movies? Blu-Ray delivers so much more than HD DVD that there is no space for comparison! (and as we so far know, at a lower media price)

"Blu-Ray delivers so much more than HD DVD that there is no space for comparison!"

Yet more consumers are buying HD-DVD, so much for your argument.

And what will be their archival quality as in how long will they last after having been written. I'm asking this because I read somewhere that a normal music CD will never have the same lifetime that a vinyl record has. Something like less than 50 years for a CD. What I find so interesting about a CD that could hold 200gb of storage is that it can have enormous value when it comes to saving from music to movies to pictures to books for future generations.

You need more than 50 years to store data??? :woot:

Ever gone hunting for an old recording of some music you heard? One that you simply can't find on a cd but you still can find on VYNIL? By the way they still sound as good as when they came out of the store. Then lets look at archiving. Nasa recently made the news with "lost" video tapes, (Remember the Moon landings? Not even 40 years old) that they hoped would be found because they needed to be transfered to longer lasting media than magnetic tape.

So, from personal recodings to historical recoding to industrial data, my question was asked because I read somewhere that CDs and DVDs wouldn't last as long as even magnetic tape recodings would. By the way, I used to work as a draftman and I used to USE drawings made in the 40s as reference for some of the work drawings I had to do, in the late 70s!

Hi. I ve done some research and found this about BD discs:

"TDK claims that the discs can last more than 50 years and have no performance degradation after being overwritten 10,000 times."

SEE HERE:
http://www.tomshardware..../09/01/tdk_200gb_bluray/

They always claim stuff like that, just like when CD-R came out. The fact is NOBODY will know if they last 50 years until 50 years have passed. Until then it is just marketing BS.

200G is all? I'll wait for the terabyte disc, thank you.
/sarc!

Put all the bells and whistles you want, next-gen DVDs are still the worst thing that could happen to the consumer...

WOW,
if only they were $.40 each like dvd's. i'd even pay as much as $5 for one.
:-p

Six layers, lol. Yeah I would certainly trust my data to that. We've all seen how reliable dual layer DVD media is compared to single layer. This sounds nice on paper though, gives the Sony supporters a nice warm feeling I guess.

So you say you not trust DL DVDs? The DVDForum DVDs? Hmmm how you trust then the DVDForum DL HD DVDs? What makes you think those moovies you buy on DL HD DVD will last more than BDs?

I'm talking about dye based blank media for burning, I didn't say anything about retail pressed DVDs.

Awesome...that'd be hilarious to here people b****ing about waiting for 5 hrs to burn one of these...maybe $180 a piece discs and then it becomes a coaster.

O yah, boy would i be pissed off if. lol

They have a 1TB mockup I seen almost a year ago..

Wasn't that holographic storage though?

"The disc doubles TDK's previous 100GB prototype and is possible by creating six distinct layers of data, each capable of holding 33.6GB."

Ouch--remember though that more layers means it will be a while before BD-RW drives will be able to do this--it is hard enough to "burn" 2 layers, imagine 6 layers...

...Yes, though, storing up to 200GB per disc could definately give Blu-Ray an advantage over HD-DVD as far as storage, but for movies? Well, maybe one 3D-TV comes along in 20 years or something :)

"but for movies?"

A movie in 1080p with a bunch of bonuses in 1080p would conceivably fill that disc up pretty fast. I'm talking Lord of the Rings Extended Edition in 1080p.

... Hell, I want that now.

Yah, i dought it would take 200gig

"A movie in 1080p with a bunch of bonuses in 1080p would conceivably fill that disc up pretty fast."

Assuming you're right (and you aren't :), that means 1080p movies will cost well over $50 each--not gonna happen anytime soon IMO. Maybe in 7 years--but not in the near future. The demand simply isn't there yet.

NOW THATS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT NEXT GEN STORAGE!

It'll be 5 years before a consumer can touch it for under $100/disc. Just watch.

For some reason this reminds me of this quote:

"No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer."

No 200 GB does not seem practical for a single DVD, but it probally will some day.

BTW: It's 2006 and I'm still waiting for my flying car!

Exactly, everyone says that much space is not needed now... BUT IT WILL BE sooner than you think

Bill Gates never said that. That is the most mis-used quote ever.

Bill DID say that--but it was "640 KB", not 637KB...

Actually he didn't say that either. It's a myth.

Who cares if he did or didn't!?

You and VikingBlade aparently.

Anyway this quote brings what it means to bring. Understand that even those HUGE 200GB BDs will not be enoug very soon...

If by "very soon" you mean "several years" then yeah...

Not 10 but 2-3 max. Every year HDD capacity is doubled cant you see. In 2006 will be released 1TB HDD, in 2007 2TB HDD. What 200GB DVDs will do?

"Not 10 but 2-3 max. Every year HDD capacity is doubled cant you see. In 2006 will be released 1TB HDD, in 2007 2TB HDD. What 200GB DVDs will do?"

That law has begun to slow itself this last cycle. Now, I'm not saying 200GB per disc *IS* too big--it will definately be useful. Heck, I'm almost tempted to use Blu-Ray for that, but the fact is, right now, in September of 2006, there is no need.

Then again this is a prototype, so Sony knows this isn't immediately needed. 1TB hard drives will be released this year, then? Seagate, I assume? When will the 1TB drive come around? It is sure to cause the 750GB drive to lower in price is the only reason I ask.

yokozuna, you're talking rubbish. There's plenty of reliable DVD+/-R discs out there, including Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden discs so therefore basing your argument over 100GB Blu-ray discs on another spec disc with false info is stupid.

Read the article properly. They mention it's a PROTOTYPE but if they manage to get it in production, it could be very very very useful.

Verbatim does not make any DVD media. Verbatim only brands them. They used to be made by Mitsubishi Chemicals & Mitsubishi-Kagei Media (what is interesting Verbatim is also a brand of Mitsubishi). Not anymore - the data layer of most Verbatim DVD-+/-Rs are made by Moser Baer India and CMC (clearly second class).

The only reliable disks come from Mitsui Advanced Media (America & Europe). Unfortunately, their production stopped some months ago and the price is high. Really high.

Do you suggest that double layer disks appeared "Deus ex machina", without any prototypes? I heard the song about cheap, good and reliable double layer DVDs some time ago. Unfortunately, only marketing mumbo-jumbo, nothing that can be taken seriously.
I do not deny that big disks are useful, but two single layer DVD-Rs are cheaper than one double layer disk. And believe me, nothing will change in next 3-4 years.

There is also the fact that current single-layer write-once Bluray media is more expensive than hard drive space.

I'm well aware that Verbatim brands discs, but actually MOST Verbatim discs these days are made by either Mitsubishi Chemicals or Taiyo Yuden (certainitely the ones that are bought from the major media stores in and around London are). This is supported by this website http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

The fact that I mentioned PROTOTYPE clearly implies that I expect all discs to have gone through a prototype stage, however, your first comment seems to suggest that a 200GB disc now is a waste of time. Of course it is... NOW. It's a prototype! However, in the future, once they have managed to produce enough of these reliably, there will be a need for more data, even if it's only by a small minority so this can only be a good thing (making the format more flexible with regards to the sizes you can get).

Two single-layer discs might be cheaper than one double-layer (I don't dispute that), however, there is a practical application that needs dual-layer discs, for example, making a movie that is more than 4.7GB. Maybe the authorer doesn't want to aplit his movie over two discs (that have to be removed and inserted when you reach the limit). Maybe he wants it all on one disc. Maybe they're making a data disc that for some reason needs to be on one disc as much as possible. Multi-layer discs give them that flexibility. It might cost them more, but for some people with certain special requirements they don't mind paying. Therefore, once again, making a negative comment on a prototype based on experiences on older media that is already out there is a silly argument to make.

i wonder how much data would be lost if the disk got scratched .... after all the damage would be done to all 6 layers ...

That's why BR discs have Durabis coating. If scratches from steel wool can't render BR discs unreadable, I don't think casual scratching will have an effect.

Steel wool can't scratch them? BS I say.

Such news make me laugh? Why?

It is hard to buy (in AD 2006) good and reliable dual layer DVD+/-Rs. The prices of dual-layer disks (not pressed) are five to ten times more expensive than they single layer brothers.

I guess the price of six layer BRs will be exorbitant, and the reliability very low.