DVD9 is better than any of these formats.
DVD9 with H264, oh yeah!

Although I am indifferent to this battle between HDDVD & BluRay, I must say this is an interesting turn of events; I mean Sony finally winning this war. It means that history really is NOT doomed to 'repeat itself' after all! I thought that this was actually gonna be a do-over of what happened with Beta, which everyone knows was a superior format that of VCR, and yet it was crushed anyway.

Oh well Sony can suck my testi-satchel for their crap pro-DRM attitude and the recent rootkit fiasco but you know what? F*ck it, good for you Sony as BluRay was really a better technology anyway......

I'd say overall HD-DVD probably dropped out at the best time.
Still, I hoped it could've lingered longer so it would lower then prices of Blu-rays.
They're still a bit more expensive than I'm happy with.

I'm glad the war has finally been decided but a few points to consider are:

As Sumner Redstone's famous quote goes 'content is king'. In the same way Super Audio CD's and DVD audio didn't acquire mainstream market adoption. Will people rush to Blu-Ray or just continue to download more and more content in Divx format in the same way people obtain mp3's..? The ability to have high quality doesn't mean people will make the effort to obtain it.

Copying - Like it or not, having the ability to make copies does fuel the adoption of this type of technology. Constantly locking down content makes people less likely to jump to the technology in the first place.

Sony - Having Sony at the head of this new generation of content system is not something I'm looking forward to. Its track record has not been the best over the past few years. Now the competition has been removed, what’s the alternative if they fire up the rookits and spyware again?

Horray!!! Now Lets aim those sites on the extremely overpriced Blurays and get back to the business model that has been proven for years and years and has ZERO reason for disappearing, considering they are efficient to make, cheap to own, and machine are downright cost effective to upgrade with an upscaler built in... DVD.

DVDs are fine. Blu-rays (like HD DVD) are the premium discs for people who want the premium version, and will probably be priced accordingly. However, as take up goes up, price will drop, just like DVD was when VHS was the norm.

I can agree with that :)
However I do note that there is still premium priced dvd's on the market :(
Those normally s*** me off too and I wont buy them.

i still have transformers on hd and a cheap upconverter. i wont be upgrading to a bluray player. i'll probably get an apple tv. apple i like, it's cheaper than a bd player, it already has full industry support, and it doesnt have a 2 minute startup time. wee!

as a bonus it's 1/10th the size :D

Well Sony blu-ray products just went up more.I wonder if they have the second generation firmware sorted out for the ps3 Hmmmm. Nows the time MS should move forward and take on sony its there for the grabs now. and as for cheaper media Ha! see what sony does for you the consumer http://www.accc.gov.au/c...dex.phtml/itemId/322787 also this http://www.reuters.com/a...olt/idUST28617520080220 And who really cares as we read this the movie companys are setting up direct streaming and digital downloads for your TV Computer and Ipods and eventually gaming consoles. so do you ask yourself is there going to be disks of any color soon? Just look at technology so did sony do themselves justice, only for a short while I think

Is that an attempt to bash sony?
That also includes universal & Warner..

Not at all in fact been doing a lot of research (Trust me) and in my opinion only sony does not favor (us) the consumer just dont forget the failure of SACD just my opinion please dont take it personally

Maybe come back to us at the end of the day and see if the media is more expensive. Somehow I don't think you will be able to.

I say congratulations to Sony & Blu Ray, do whatever you have to win is my motto. Toshiba didn't do enough to seal the deal, Warner was the key, obviously.

Netflix will see a surge in rentals, which is the best way to go for everyone as most of the movies today arent worth purchasing.

Sony's next move will have to convince the remaining 99.5% of the public to buy BD and get rid of standard DVD.

I still say HD formats are not a big enough jump from standard DVD to convince most people. We watched Rattatoule on the projector / screen upscaled the other night, it looked phenomenal.

HD-DVD should stick around as a data format for archiving HD home movies / recordings etc...

The good news, I'm buying every discounted HD-DVD I can get my hands on. Hopefully they will be under ten bucks.

--------------

I'll even be the better man and say congratulations to Benjamin / Dave. Your character is shown by your actions, this place will stink of his farts for a long time as he gloats.

I still say HD formats are not a big enough jump from standard DVD to convince most people.
and we all know how well your 'predictions' have been...

we all know that is not a prediction, its evident right now.
That's not to say it wont change sometime in the future. Blu-ray has a lot of positive publicity recently.

Whats the matter dlab? Bitter? Angry? Broke? Relax, it's only a format. Find something more important to worry about than this crap like what you will be doing for retirement money.

You have to give them a Thumbs Up for a good effort. I own a PS3 and a couple BR Movies, but unlike most, I waited to see which format would win until I bought.

The PC3's XMAS 2007 sales are what pushed this. 1.2 Million PS3 (BR Players) sold and that is a MAJOR indication on how the movie studio's would go.

PS3 is a Media Center that is still evolving. It is still the cheapest BR Player on the Market and the fact that is is a Game and Media Console, it is the smartest choice.

I know I sound like a PS3 Fanboy, but I am not really. It just made sense for this format to progress.

I still think the format can be used in the IT / Tech world. Still a good Storage / Backup media.

"PS3 is a Media Center that is still evolving. It is still the cheapest BR Player on the Market and the fact that is is a Game and Media Console, it is the smartest choice."

I understand many people feel that the PS3 simply is the best option on the market but not everyone thinks that way.
Many for example know the playstation name as a gaming console and one that has proven its worth over time. The idea of having it as a blu-ray player isn’t that attractive to someone who has zero interesting in gaming. I doubt the thought would have even crossed their mind.
What would a salesman say if someone said they were looking for a blu-ray player? Should they recommend a playstation? Surly not. They would offer the customer several solutions.
I know you said yourself you are not a ps3 fanboy and I accept that because of the effort and sense you put into your post instead of bashing and throwing insults around. But that said there are those here that just preach PS3 PS3 PS3 and just cant understand there is more to blu-ray than their precious investment.

And so it begins.... the blu-ray fanbois are measuring their weenies against the HD-DVD fanbois over something they really had NO hand in accomplishing or "winning".

Simply put, the following can be said after reading this long line of trash...

First: Not everyone wants/needs a game console to play movies, and to say that "all you need is a PS3" is total bularky, my Grandmother, Dad and my Mom don't want a PS3 because they don't do console games, and probably neither do yours, so who gives a flying patoot over the PS3. Standalone players will always be preferred by most people for playing their HD media, not a video game console. I'm not spending 3-500+ for a player, and neither should you.

Second, some people would rather see CHEAPER pricing on players, and as such HD movies are going to stay a niche market. WHO CARES? Until a final finished spec is out in *affordable* players all over the *world*, it's going to be a niche market, and will stay that way. Again, price is going to decide if blu-ray lasts. If no one buys the format because the players are all buggy and the "only" player available is a video game console, people are going to drop the format and wait for something else, like downloadable HD.

Third: Yes, people, Sony is evil. Yes, let me reiterate: SONY IS EVIL. WHO FREAKIN' CARES?!? Anyone who's bought one of their rootkitted CD's or played an MMO of theirs (EQ/EQ2/SWG to name a few) or bought one of their formats (Like we all didn't see UMD and MiniDisc for the money-sucking Media-Company DRM friendly attempted exclusivity stupidity it was) would know that already, and really shouldn't argue that fact at all. So don't expect the price of Blu-Ray tech to drop below 150 bucks *ever*. There won't be a price war, because Sony always puts out overpriced proprietary junk. (Vaio, anyone?)

Toshiba's lost this round. WHO CARES!?! It was bound to happen that Sony would eventually win a format war. The sun shines on a dog's arse some days too, ya know.

Sure, I expected HD-DVD to win simply by the merits of that they had a cheaper, consumer friendly, feature complete spec on the market a *year* earlier than Blu-Ray. That should have won the war for them, but that doesn't always happen.

Capacity on movie discs means nothing to most people, and it shouldn't matter to you either, because in the end, it's about the movies, not the extras. 9 out of 10 people (probably even lower ratio than that) will say they buy a disc for the movie and not the extras.

And if you say "Blu-Ray looks better than HD-DVD on screen", then you're smoking a big crack pipe, and need to put it down and exhale deeply. They both were IDENTICAL to the human eye. Internal bandwidth numbers on the players mean nothing to the masses, all they want is to see the movie and see the clarity. That's *it*. They're not going to get into arguments over how their player is better because it does a few megabits better transfer rate internally. Woopty freakin DOO!

Blu-Ray simply out-marketed, and out-backroom-dealed HD-DVD. Like the Beta/VHS war, the better format didn't win. Big woop.

Get over it, and move on.

Like all this gibberish that you just said matters anymore. Spoken like a true DUD.

Move on. Get yourself a PS3 and enjoy hidef the way it should be.

See, spoken like a true Blu-Ray fanboi...

I don't need a piece o-S 3... I don't do console games. Why do I need a console gaming platform to play videos?

PS3 is more than just a game console. It's a very fun machine which happens to bundle bluray in it. For the same price that you are going to pay a standalone bluray player, you can get yourself a PS3 which is by the way, 2.0 ready. If you want to wait, the prices of these BD players will definitely come down. For how much? I don't know but definitely cheaper than the present.

Bitter much?

Those that supported Blu-Ray did have a hand in accomplishing the fall of HD-DVD. They were part of the larger of the two consumer bases. They purchased Blue Ray players (including the PS3) and Blue Ray disks. To discount that installed base led to the abandonment of the HD DVD format by the majority of the Media Companies and eventually Toshiba is to be naive of business and economics.

Second, where is your proof that "9 out of 10 people (probably even lower ratio than that) will say they buy a disc for the movie and not the extras." Because quite frankly 90% of figures posted on the 'net are made up (and yes mine was too).

Interesting that you compare this to Beta/VHS alluding to the fact that Beta was better format. Ironic that it was back by the same Evil Corporation you lambasted above.

I think that you will find the average consumer could really care less about all the "extra" stuff it can do. Just make a player that is complete and just plays movies end of story.

Frankly I like what the PS3 can do but the vast majority I bet would find the thing scary. They want simple and cheap end. Sony needs to get the specs final and machines out right away. No more delays no more excuses. I don't understand why so many of you do not understand that people will see the PS3 as a game system. That alone will turn some off. My dad for example will see playstation and give it a pass. The name tells everything. Playstation has become a household name for a game system for a long time.

I hear you there. But in defense of the PS3, as I have previously mentioned, its more than just a combo machine. So far, it is one of the few (if not the only one) that is 2.0 ready and the price is not that bad now (compared to its release last year or so). Its just because they name it Playstation 3 doesn't mean that it can only do games. Consoles these days, like PS3 and Xbox 360, are not just for games anymore. You can browse the net, download stuff, etc.

That is not what I mean. I think that many or a very high percentage of consumers see the PS3 as a game machine not for what it really is. People that don't play games see the name and move on. I also agree that the system can do lots of cool things but I think that many just want to be insert a disk and away they go. I know that the PS3 will do just that but as I stated before the average joe does not. Blu needs to get a stand alone player out that is a final spec for your average buyer right away. The ball is rolling fast don't loss the momentum with a profile problem. People will hear about the profile issue and not understand what it about and simply stay away. Benny and the others may flame about that but that is reality. Make it so right away. I hope that clears up my statement a little better.

Clear. :-)

"Sure, I expected HD-DVD to win simply by the merits of that they had a cheaper, consumer friendly, feature complete spec on the market a *year* earlier than Blu-Ray. That should have won the war for them, but that doesn't always happen."

"Capacity on movie discs means nothing to most people, and it shouldn't matter to you either, because in the end, it's about the movies, not the extras. 9 out of 10 people (probably even lower ratio than that) will say they buy a disc for the movie and not the extras."

So in the first paragraph quoted you say HD DVD is "feature complete" while in the second paragraph quoted you say that 9 out of 10 people won't buy it for extras. Contradicting yourself there, aren't we, seeing as the newer Blu-ray profiles only add extras?

Feature complete means:

Spec was hammered out and implemented in the hardware/player before it hit the market, i.e. HD-DVD didn't have to go through "profile" revisions like BR did.

Heck, even the first gen BR players didn't have the capabilities that the HD-DVD players did, like ethernet, updating through the internet, etc.

To me and a lot of other people, that's exactly what the PLAYstation 3 is... a GAMING platform.

When I think of a movie player, I think of a dedicated device that it's only function in life is that it plays movies, like a DVD player.

A PS3 is a gaming console with multimedia capabilities. I don't need to spend the extra $ for that. I just want a player. That's why I have such a big problem with Sony trying to push this ginormous expensive device when a simple disc player will do quite nicely.

Yes, Beta was a better product by it's technical merits, but mainly was beat out because a) VHS came out at least 2 (I may be underestimating that number, it might have been more) years earlier than Beta, and b) VHS had a longer playing time and was cheaper to manufacture.

If you remember, Beta had stereo audio and better resolution than VHS for a while until there were refinements done to the VHS format to allow hi-fi audio and dolby surround.

But up until a few years back, Beta still survived because the broadcast industry used it. Camera people didn't need the extended capacity of VHS and were satisfied with the 1 to 2 hour capacity of the Beta tapes to be "masters" to work from.

It was technically the superior format, but again, that proves the case that better doesn't always win.

And the people who made Blu-Ray "win" were the ones working the back door industry deals, the ones that designed and endorsed the studio-friendly and anti-consumer DRM (whee, managed copy eliminated, and repeat buying when you want to placeshift those blu-ray movies to a portable media device, score one for the studios!), the marketing folks that flooded every dvd commercial with their moniker, and the industry reps who convinced short circuit and worst buy to push the higher-margin blu-ray players and PS3 gaming platform.

The HD player market is too niche right now to even think that the consumer was the one who influenced or decided the outcome.

"And the people who made Blu-Ray "win" were the ones working the back door industry deals, the ones that designed and endorsed the studio-friendly and anti-consumer DRM "

Hmmm, I wonder why a company would have a desire to protect their investments. Is it anti-consumer? I tend to agree with you. I bought the disk and should have the ability to use it within existing fair use laws. This may bite them in the end. But, it is still not shocking for them to attempt to control distribution of their product.

"the marketing folks that flooded every dvd commercial with their moniker "

The reason there was more commercials for blue is because 3 out of the 5 media companies used that format. It is simple math man. The majority of the content providers were producing them in that format.

"... and the industry reps who convinced short circuit and worst buy to push the higher-margin blu-ray players and PS3 gaming platform."

"The HD player market is too niche right now to even think that the consumer was the one who influenced or decided the outcome."

Bawhahaha. While I agree it is still a niche market. There were measurable numbers over the time both formats have been available to consumers. The most certainly showed a shift in units sold (both hardware and software) to Blue Ray. Was this partly due to consumers seeing the writing on the wall due to Warner, Net flicks, et al abandoning the format? Certainly, after those announcements were made. There is no reason to stay with a sinking ship. But, quite frankly those companies still had to review marketing analysis to determine if this is the correct business decision for them. The trend appeared before that just on a much smaller scale.

And regarding Beta/VHS. Blue Ray is still the technologically superior format due to capacity whether you wish to admit it work not. In your example with beta/VHS you indicated that Beta had was technologically superior due to it's video resolution and audio quality. Capacity was one of VHS' edges, as you indicated. And we know the outcome of that.

In this format war, the two were indistinguishable in video and audio output. The difference came down to cost and capacity. Which of those two distinctions is a technical one?

Sorry, for snipping up your post but, it was one run on sentence with several disparate points. I don't usually like to break down post point by point but, it was the only way I could address each of them in a contextual manner.

And in a later statement in your post, you say that 9 out of 10 people won't care for the extra features. Seeing as the newer profiles only add extra features (and not exactly features that are essential to it anyway), it's not going to matter, is it? Your post simply contradicts itself.

Actually, Betamax was launched 1 year earlier than VHS. Other than that, your post is a good one.

Well, that wasn't too painful, now, was it?

How long did the video tape format war last? A long time, from what I recall...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war

First of all: WAY TO GO BLU RAY!!!!

Second, finally, the war is officially over. We can now all move on with one, and ONLY one hidef media. As I have said several times on this forums here, in which some of you have flamed me on, BD IS the successor over DVD. Nothing that you HD DVD campers can say now will matter anymore. Your boss from Toshiba have spoken and recognized that enough is enough. You should all do the same and start looking forward on how we can all unite and use BD. It's not the end of the world. You will still continue to pay your bills and all is well with your friends and family. Stop the false commentators about how HD DUD will-still-be-better gibberish as it will no longer fly anymore, anywhere.

Let's move on....towards a BLU world.

"As I have said several times on this forums here, in which some of you have flamed me on, BD IS the successor over DVD."

You have been flamed on that, because as of right now and for the foreseeable future it is not true. Simply because Blu-ray has emerged victoriously from the battle with HD DVD, it does not make it the successor to DVD by default. It now has an entirely different battle... one that actually means something for a change.

Guess I'll grab a HD-A31 asap (and cheap) so I can have a decent player for the remainder of the life of my existing HD discs.

Thanks god. Maybe we can turn our attention/quibbles to other technology hardly anyone is using now.

*LOL* Thanks for the chuckle.

The Blu-Ray factories are partying today.

No, I'm pretty sure the people making Blu-Ray players in sub-par conditions for sub-par wages aren't looking forward to increased production... ;)

Very true...

A moment of silence please for those slaving away manufacturing feature-crippled standalone Blu-ray consoles that should never have been built to begin with.

Talk about a thankless job.

But a big pat on the back to all the little chinese people making their HD player for peanuts ...

Hip Hip !!

It wouldn't make sense for Toshiba to keep developing HD-DVDs for PCs given the limited portability of the format. What are you going to do with the discs now that the format is dead? In terms of backup storage, capacity is king.

It could work though. They could keep on developing the 3-layer 51GB disc they said the DVD Forum had approved.

Read the Toshiba press release.

http://hddvd.highdefdige...leasetoshiba021908.html

Oh... they threw in the towel COMPLETELY. Pity, I assumed they only canned the development of HD DVD as movie discs.

Oh... you didn't read the press release COMPLETELY. Pity.

...yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Yes that paragraph seems to throw a lot of things off around the place.
I'm confused by it as well as it does not = completely dropping hd-dvd yet they state they have.

There are some people on this site eating their words right now.

And probably crying as they lay alone in the basement.

Amen!

All negative and pessimistic comments are from XBOX and HD-DVD owners and people who can't afford it right now and people who have no interest anyways.

UNIVERSAL GOES BLU!!!!!

That didnt take long.

http://www.highdefdigest...__Studios_Goes_Blu/1483

And that came as a surprise ?

All you have to do now is convince everyone to ditch DVD, and go blu ... Good luck with that. Don't expect any help from china.

Now we just need Universal and Paramount release dates!!!

Hopefully Paramount will release a statement soon.

1 million HD-DVD players compared to over 10 million Blu Ray players on the market?
Toshiba and Microsoft KNEW at black Friday time that HD-DVD was going to be extinct, and they still fooled people into buying their product.

From Thanksgiving they knew their product was out the door.

I don't care about everyone. Only myself and my products. I'll buy what I think is affordable, and rent from Netflix.

At least I have a choice! We Blu ray adopters who did our research instead of buying a cheap player on black Friday can now buy what we want when we want. Can HD-DVD people say that? NOPE.

In other news, water is wet...

Seriously, with Toshiba retiring HD DVD, what other choice did they have?

Of course not the company wants to make money. I would think that Para will respond the same way shortly. There is no need to delay. Once Toshiba quit both were effectively released from their contracts. I hope Para will get to work on the Star trek disks right away. They did an excellent job on the HD ones look, forward to the next ones on blu.

Had nothing at all to do with research. If you adopted early and wanted Universal titles in HD you bought HD. No one knew how long the battle would go on. If you had the money for both formats buy them.

I like your admitting to being self centered.

we might be screwed on startrek for awhile since toshiba was the one paying for it to be remastered

"Toshiba and Microsoft KNEW at black Friday time that HD-DVD was going to be extinct"

You left out your insightful source for this.

I await it eagerly

Well, it looks like the bickering can finally stop and we can all ease into the glorious world of high-definition videos and the like.

Wait, what am I saying? This is the Internet!

"Viva Blu-Ray" eh? What is this, a revolution?

I'm not planning on going high-definition any time soon (being a college student really leaves one without much disposable income), so I didn't particularly care which format came out on top in this case. Yes, I'm slightly affronted by the fact that the region-coded version backed by Sony "won," but in the end I just don't care: Riding two horses around the race track is never a smart idea; sticking with one strongly increases your chances of success.

Good points The rest of us who don't have a huge cash flow have no interest in pursuing this venture. People keep posting about how intelligent the conversations are in regards to this topic. I am just sick of the Sony fanbois and their propaganda spreading B.S. I would like to make my own choices subjective or objective its my choice to try and sell me on your format when I have seen the black print and read through the lines.

I am happy with my up converting player and DVD suits me just fine.
Bloray can burn in the depths of hell for the time being.

You are lucky that you are a college student! By the time you can afford stuff like this, the TV's and Blu Ray players will be very cheap.

I wish I had waited before buying my first HDTV. I missed HDMI by about 3 months.

Oh well.

Wow.
I also enjoy my upconverted DVD's on my player that converts as best it can, depending on how well they made the original DVD.

Oh, I also enjoy the blu ray videos that I can play.

Oh,I also enjoy streaming pictures, music, and videos from my computer to my blu-ray player.

Oh, I also enjoy streaming pictures, music, and video from the internet to my blu-ray player.

Can your up converting player do that?

Your choice has been made for your. DVD's, up converted DVD's, or Blu Ray.

What did I say? What did I say? If you read my past posts, you'll know.

Enough said.

Just so you know, with no competition now blueray players and movies will only go up in price, including the PS3. They definitely won't lower them at this point. All you blueray fanboys rejoice, your precious format war is over. Find something else to whine about.

You are so wrong!!!

Viva Blu Ray!

Of course they will lower prices! There is something called "Supply and Demand" that helps regulate prices.

Look it up!

Yeah, cos of course there isn't several manufacturers competing for consumer's wallets. skuz440's comments are completely uneducated, obviously.

Funnily enough DVD seems to have done well despite no competition. And Blu-ray will now be competing with them, if they want to replace DVD entirely.

And if HD DVD won, the situation would've been the same!

Great somebody won. Now all we need is to see player run under $100 and get into the hand of the mass. I doubt it it will ever happen especially when it's from Sony. Or maybe VOD will remove physical disc from the market in the next few years.

Good thing Blu-ray's patents aren't held solely by Sony then.

Also good that they aren't the only ones making players too.

I look forward to seeing $100 Blu-ray players at some point in the future.

I think there will be cheaper blu ray players. Samsung is working on it.

But why buy one when you can get a PS3?

A PS3 does way more than just play games.

I love streaming music, pictures, and videos from my home computer to my PS3.

I love using my PSP to talk to my PS3 and watch and listen to whatever I do have on my hard drive on my PS3.

TVersity works great on my PS3. (As it does on XBOX 360)

Netflix is going to offer VOD to PS3 and XBOX360 users.

Firmware updates are constantly coming to the PS3.

The PS3 keeps winning awards from non-gaming sites for its audio and visual capabilities.

The PS3 is already 2.0 compliant.

Soon the European market can use the PS3 as a DVR. Hopefully that will come to the U.S. market.

I fought in the format wars, and won!

I'd like to stand up an applaud Toshiba for not dragging this out till the bitter end...Toshiba has made a choice in the interest of the consumer, and HD Media in general...they realize that one unified format is best for the consumer, and the industry as a whole...

whether you supported BD or HD-DVD it is now time to move forward...this format war was stupid in the first place, but it did have a great effect on price. I don't think either side would have dropped prices as quickly had there been no competition, and for that i am thankful...

HD Media will grow, and will eventually surpass SD-DVD in sales just as SD-DVD overtook VHS (it took 7 years remember)...prices will come down over time (DVD players were just as expensive relative to inflation when it was released) and now that there is a single format there is no need to choose sides and pick what movies you want to see...

My GOD. An intelligent post! Rare to see here.

Now I can agree with you.

Now they only need to kill DVD.

Oh crap. Can't believe it all came crashing down so fast.

Dammit. I really thought we wouldn't have to invest in another, inferior technology so soon. Saying that, I will go blue in the face before I buy a blueray player or movies...

Goodbye HDDVD. You will be sorely missed.

why? you make no sense....embrace the winning format....just as blu ray supporters would have done if HD-DVD had won....

Obviously it's your choice and no one can force you, but only an idiot would refuse to buy a format just cos they were a fan of the format rival.

yes but if hd-dvd had one the blu group would have only had to make a small investment for a finished player some of us are a bit bitter because we don't want to pay $400 for a player with unfinished spec's (ps3 and 360 don't work for me they are both to dam ugly)

Unfinished spec? I think you'll find that the player will play all discs regardless. The extra features are just that, extra features, that aren't essential anyway.

The extra features are just that, extra features, that aren't essential anyway.

I love that excuse. Absolutely love it.

It's pathetic, dismissive, and brilliantly elitist, which pretty much describes the whole BD crowd to a tee.

If you say it isn't so, then it isn't so? Yeah...that only works for God.

And it's amazing that you can't see it for what it is. Unlike you who has to nit pick over every tiny feature and trumpet some minor advantage as some amazing thing that proves it's so so so much better than the competition, I just sit back, analyse and determine if it really actually matters, much like the general public in fact.

Sounds like YOU are the elitist one here. Maybe even a bit of a tech geek. The rest of us in the real world will simply get on with our lives.

*laughing*

No, the "real world" doesn't give two s***s about HD, genius.

The rest of us are actually intelligent enough to see how asinine "no-one's going to use it anyway" is.

Ya'll keep trumpeting it like it's the second coming, but when we point out that many stand-alones can't handle the interactivity you turn around and claim no-one will use it.

It's like you're related to Hilary Clinton or something...

So which is it? Awesome feature confirming the "superiority" of Blu-Ray, or something no-one will use?

The interactivity with the special features is part of what makes HD DVD and blu-ray a 'next-gen' movie experience. So yeah...they're kind of essential to the overall picture.

And if they're so unimportant, and so many people won't use them, why has the BDA been playing catch-up with HD DVD? First the battle cry was that PIP wasn't important...until profile 1.1 came out. Then (according to the smurfs) no one cared about internet connectivity; but now that 2.0 is somewhere out there (and may la