RSSTiVo Institutes 1 Year Service Contracts
By Ed Oswald | Published September 23, 2005, 2:56 PM
A recent change made to TiVo's customer agreement has opened up the door to allow the company to institute service contracts. Although it is unclear as to why the change has been made, TiVo has recently endeavored to market the DVR service to new customers and contracts would keep those users from canceling.
According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee.
The change has already angered some users, who began to voice their complaints across TiVo enthusiast sites late Thursday. "This is just not a good thing," a user who identified himself as "ZeoTiVo" posted to the Tivo Community site. Another said the tactic felt "sleazy."
Although not specified in the new agreement, some customers have reported that adding a new TiVo to their service makes contracts activated before that date also applicable to the new policy.
This is certainly not the first time that TiVo has angered customers by making changes to its service. In late March, the company began testing new popup ads, but they disappeared shortly after the story became public.
A similar, less intrusive type of advertising was launched by TiVo in July, possibly reworked in response to those criticisms.
There may be good business reasoning behind the change in policy, as TiVo has begun to aggressively pursue new customers. In July, the DVR maker offered a $100 instant rebate on its set-top box for the first time in the company's history, which lasted through mid-August.
In September, TiVo increased the mail-in rebate to $150, bringing the cost of a TiVo system down to under $50. At that rate, it would take TiVo a little over a year in subscription fees to recoup the retail price of the unit.
Most recently, an offer with iRiver was launched that would give new iRiver PMC-120 buyers a free TiVo with one year of service pre-paid. All these promotions cost money, however, and for a company attempting to stay profitable, every dollar counts.
But some TiVo customers don't think the end result is worth it. "The fee itself really isn't unreasonable in the scheme of new equipment purchases," a TiVo user wrote. "Although I really wonder if it's worthwhile in terms of bad publicity vs. what they'll actually recover from it."
"I just activated my TiVo a week ago. I was so happy to get it working and now I feel locked in, which is what I didn't want with the lifetime contract," one new TiVo customer told BetaNews. "Apparently you have to read the fine print, because there is no mention of a service contract during the setup phase on tivo.com."
TiVo had not responded to requests for comment on the service agreement changes by press time.
Nate Mook contributed to this report.
This is a business move that will make them WAY more appealing to potential buyers (of the company, not the service). A solid subscription base that cannot defect on a whim will be worth way more.
Most anyone who's used TiVo knows the service is great -- and frankly BetaNews folks who are willing/able to build our own DVR's aren't TiVo's target. Personally, I'd give up cable and record crappy broadcast reception before I gave up TiVo's service. Very worth my dollars.
PS - tried shopping for a cell phone lately? THAT'S where we're getting screwed.
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|You may as well purchase the lifetime contract and get it over with as I did in 1999. When the hard drive died last year, I purchased a dual set of 60GB HDs from weaknees.com and slid them in just fine. Then I purchased a DVD-R and connected it to my Tivo and simultaneously record programs I want to burn to keep. You might want to try that instead of complaining--what a concept!
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|This is another Tivo tactic that will prove very unpopular with the current and potential future customer base. I’m all for company’s making a profit but not at the expense of the customers. I would rather have optional features that I could select from rather than being force fed a corporate policy that’s one-sided. I predict that the publicity from this new rancor will be just as devastating to Tivo as there last round of advertisement attempts.
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|hehe.... every single company in the world that makes a profit, makes a profit at the expense of it's customers. That's what a business is.
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|You are exactly correct. To add to that, one need not be "force fed a one-sided company policy" because the customer, as the second side, can elect to stop doing business with the company.
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|This is another Tivo tactic that will prove very unpopular with the current and potential future customer base. I’m all for company’s making a profit but not at the expense of the customers. I would rather have optional features that I could select from rather than being force fed a corporate policy that’s one-sided. I predict that the publicity from this new rancor will be just as devastating to Tivo as there last round of advertisement attempts.
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|What does TiVo do exactly that a normal DVR won't? I've got a Panasonic DMR-E30 and I record all the shows I want to DVD. I never really got the point of paying for a service to do that.
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|My point.
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|Here's what TIVO offers:
1. Ability to record up to 40 hours of programming on the box itself
2. "Time s***ing" - It's always recording no matter what you watch. It keeps the last 30 minutes available so you can pause or rewind.
3. Season Pass - Set it up to record by: Show/Actor/Keyword so it will record anytime it sees something on the schedule
4. Remote Scheduling - If you're on the road or at a friends, you can get online and set your Tivo to record something.
5. Media Player - You can set it up to point to a directory on your computer and play music through your sound system or display photos.
6. OS Applications - You can download/develop your own applications for it (Google Maps,games,RSS readers)
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|The Remote Scheduling is the only thing that 99% of the things I mentioned don't have. Remember the VCRplus and how they still use that code on every show on TV and how you can program you DVD, VCR and TV card to use those too. I have time s***ing on my TV card. My digital cable box has timeshifting too. I can record on my computer or DVD, VHS anything I want and I keep it. I have one wire that runs from my computer that I can play movies from it to the TV in the family room and it will play my music library too. I have a remote that came with my TV card. Everything that is hooked up cost less that $200 and no subscriptions.
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|VCRPlus - not even remotely the same as Season Pass. That's laughable. I set up recording Lost last year, and anytime it sees it on, it records it. I don't have to worry about any codes. Mine records that and several others.
Wires - Tivo doesn't require wires to your computer. I wouldn't want a wire running around my house.
Subscriptions - So you don't pay a subscription for your cable box? Amazing. I had cable with a box and my bill was $70/month. I got rid of the box and now it's $50/month and i'm not missing any channels i would have watched otherwise.
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|Yeah you have to pay the cable PLUS a Tivo? That is just stupid. Next" No wire? so you use more radio wave to get the music from your computer? Real smart. Or do you use the net? Again real smart.
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|Oh yeah I forgot the biggest problem with Tivo. You don't get to keep the copy and they will time out on the Tivo unit it's self. Don't go on vacation for more than 8 days.
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|Thanks. The newer DVRs have built in hard drives so the first item should be no problem for them. My Panasonic also offers time s***ing if I use DVD-RAM (which I usually do since I take them to my computer to edit if it's a show I want to keep). The other stuff sounds interesting but I don't really need any of them myself. :)
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|No. You obviously haven't seen a Tivo before. The options for recordings are:
1. Until I delete it manually
2. Until the box needs space
3. if it's season pass, only keep 1,2,3...episodes.
There's no timeout.
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|Actually I agree on the no wires part. I use wireless networking on my computers, much less hassle than running cables through the house. Seems smarter than running them to me. :)
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|If you like cancer and it makes it so that anyone has access to anything that you have wireless for.
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|Ok, I'm not sure what you mean about cable plus a tivo. Yes you have to have cable to watch their programming. I think you do to with your setup. The difference is i have a TIVO box, and you have the cable brand's box.
As for how music gets from the computer to the TIVO, it's called "wireless network". It uses 802.11b.
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|OK I maybe wrong on the time out. I however still have the problem with the ads.
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|Actually that may soon change:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/...trictions.ap/index.html
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|Well the cancer thing was never proven and if it is true we are all in trouble because there are radio waves all around us 24 hours a day. As for the access thing that's what WEP encryption is for.
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|gawd, what the heck are you talking about!?! haha.
Cancer? So you don't have a cell phone?, and you don't go anywhere that has wireless access??? Keep your tinfoil hat on buddy.
Open networks? Um, well first off that's why you keep your network password protected. Secondly, the TIVO doesn't have an interface where you can upload viruses on it or something. Essentially it's something that wouldn't ever happen and nothing to worry about unless you're a tinfoil hat guy.
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|Damn... And they want people to buy and then pay a subscription for this crap?
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|Old and easy to be hacked wireless. I guess you nor the guys at Tivo watch the news.
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|You are so lost. Man you can NOT protect a wireless network secure enough. Oh use a password, Blah that has NEVER worked. http://www.iss.net/wireless/WLAN_FAQ.php
Wireless LAN 802.11b Security FAQ
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|Well, like it says, it was a glitch. I'm sure the programmers that built the OS for it wanted to build as many features into it as possible.
IF they ever institute this policy and give this option to the media companies, then I'll be pretty upset.
But I don't see that ever happening. The only people it would benefit would be the media companies. It wouldn't benefit them AT ALL! It would kill them.
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|If that is so then why is it such a big deal that they HAVE to keep the ads and they even update them with popups? http://www.betanews.com/...o_Recordings/1112740020
http://www.betanews.com/..._Advertising/1121703765
http://www.betanews.com/...of_PopUp_Ads/1112116681
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|LOL. Whatever. It's obvious you're a tinfoil hat guy. You might want to get off the internet. Someone might be sniffing your packets.
Enjoy your wired world. No cellphones, no wireless networks. No wireless regular phones. No remote controls, no radios, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.
And by the way, you can set up your router to only accept connections from certain MAC addresses if you're THAT worried about it. Personally there's a greater chance of getting struck by lightening than for someone to be sneaking around my house trying to hack into my router.
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|You are not gettiing so stupid. It's has been on the news time and time again about how unsecure wireless it. It's not my fault you are stuck in the 90's. However you are sticking up for Tivo so that really does say how smart you are.
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|First article, I have no problem with them updating the commercials. I'll fast forward through them anyway (they haven't done this to my knowledge)....And I could back them up on the computer/DVD if i wanted anyway.
Second article, I've seen this before. They show an icon in the top right hand corner showing that there's more information. If you click the "Thumbs Up" it will display that information if you're interested. The one i saw was on a movie. If i clicked it, it'd show me the full movie trailer on it. I think it's a benefit to the user.
Third article. I've never seen this and is obvious that they're testing it. I hope they don't do this one. I'm sure they have/would receive plenty of critisism for this one.
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|I tell you the truth I have no idea why you stick up for them. You don't seem to be stupid really, just confused I guess. Why pay the high costs of cable and then get a Tivo for a heck of a lot more money? I don't understand. But it's dinner time and I have to go feed the kids. It was fun.
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|No SSID broadcast, WEP encryption, MAC restriction. And you're going to cruise my neighborhood with NetStumbler, sit within range to gather enough packets to crack the WEP, and spoof the MAC, so you can... sniff my TiVo guide information?
My deadbolts are not burglarproof (as anyone with an impact drill and a titanium drill bit can prove), and my wireless is not sniffproof. However, both my door and my WAP are set up to make any effort to break in an incredible pain in the *ss in comparison to what's potentially there. It's been in the news time and time again how poorly set up wireless is unsecure. The rest is the paranoid rants of those with too much time on their hands.
As for the radio wave/cancer thing... if a century of radio, television, microwaves, cell phones and every other EM emitting technology in existence can't persuade you, nothing will. Fortunately, it's easy to ignore such nonsense.
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|Maybe you should do a little research and not just talk hype. The only one of those that you listed that would even attempt to slow someone it the MAC blocking and all they have to do is a real fast scan of your network as all of the wireless cards are still transmitting if they are on and they are transmitting that info. It takes less than a few second to do this sitting in your car with your laptop. WEP is a joke!
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|As a TIVO subscriber and TIVO shareholder, I am glad they implemented this. They are losing money everytime they sell one. They have to get ATLEAST a years worth of subscription fees from them to recoup what they've lost.
Personally, I don't understand why someone would spend the money for a TIVO only to use it for say 6 months. Doesn't make sense to me.
Would people rather it be sold for $200 and not have a 1 year contract over their head? This protects them from people possibly buying one and just using it for it's parts.
Simply, if you want $150 off the price of a TIVO, use it for a year, otherwise, you don't get the rebate.
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|I see NO point in subscribing to a service to record a tv show.
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|Do you have a cable box? Do see a point in paying a subscription for that? Because if you have one, you most likely pay $7/month for it.
$7 * 4 1/2 years = $378 for a box you don't own.
$50 + $300 lifetime fee = $350 for a box you own and don't have to pay monthly for.
What you're getting monthly from TIVO is the on-guide schedule like a regular cable box, plus the online remote scheduling.
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|online remote scheduling Is the Only reason I could see someone buying a Tivo and that still isn't worth the extra money. Good point about not owning the unit from the cable company (it's only $5USD), but the Tivo doesn't last but a few years and they die. I remember seeing a big stink about this about a year ago, so we pay about twice as much for the Tivo and we are still left empty handed. And the Tivo is not $50, and we all know how rebates really work. You are lucky to ever see it.
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|The TIVO is $50. Everyone that i know who's done the rebate program has gotten their rebate. If you don't trust them, then that's an entirely different subject. You do get your rebate though.
And your remark about it breaking after 3 years is pure speculation. It has a hard drive in it, so it could break immediately. It could last 10 years, at a saving of $250 (at the $5/month cable box cost).
Speaking of the cable box, I HIGHLY doubt your cable bill is only $5 more for the box. That might be what they put on bill for it, but some of the cost is in the "digital programming". In my area it was a $20 difference between with and without the box.
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|Agreed.
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|Well your area is different than mine. As for the Tivo lasting more than a few years. I would have to say that unless you didn't use it much that it's just about improbable for it to last much more that that.
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|I have a TiVo I purchased in 1999, and I've used *heavily* since that time. It has not died. The only moving parts inside of a TiVo are the fans and the hard drives. With decent care, there's no reason it should die.
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|I've sent in 3 rebates to TiVo (all $100-$150), and all were paid.
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|Um you even said three rebates. I don't believe you. The hard drive that is used every day will break down. I have seen hard drives that have lasted more than 6 years but not ones used everyday. (some scsi drives have lasted longer, the older ones. I also know that drives use to come with 5 year warrenties.)
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|That is nice that you got your rebates back, but the simple fact that you bought a Tivo and then paid a subscription to it andhave to pay one for your cable and a monthly fee for your internet are just stupid in it's self. There are several easier and cheaper ways. One or two ways were listed in one of my posts above.
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|Yes, I did say 3 rebates. I've purchased 2 TiVo's for family members as gifts, and one for myself. All of the rebates were paid within 8 weeks.
It sounds like you've got a personal vendetta against TiVo from your posts, I really don't know why you've got such an vested interest in anti-TiVoism. It's a good product and the convenience it offers is worth the money.
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|Oh, and for what it's worth, I have a 35 megabyte IDE hard drive from the days when that was enormous that still works perfectly.
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|The one year contracts TIVO has started offering are as bad as ISP's such as Earthlink and Verizon requiring a one year contract for DSL service. It's just as easy for me to use my computer as a DVR with software such as Snapstream Beyond TV.
Quite frankly, depending on the size of the hard disk I wouldn't mind paying $200 for a TIVO box to avoid a contract.
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|WAIT A MINUTE
This press release was made public on September 23, 2005. Where do they get off claining that customers who signed up three weeks before (Sept. 4) are now subjected to retroactive service agreement like those of cell phone companies and DSL providers.
A new policy which goes into effect on a date after this release is one thing. A retro-active change is contrary to many state laws!
I don't even want free TIVO. They admitted spying on customers; just to tell the world exactly how many people watched, the re-runs of Janet Jackson's T&A show during a football game.
I signed up with SBC/Yahoo knowning exactly what kind of DSL contract was involved and the rules of the game were not changed later...
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|So is the lifetime contract no longer an option? I for one just paid for the LT contract. I love my TiVo and see no reason to ever cancel. Hence the lifetime.
This one year agreement doesn't bother me as I know I will use my TiVo forever. And that LT fee is not all that unreasonable considering.
My local cable company demo'd their on demand and DVR service but it sucks compared to DTV and the TiVo DVR with DTV. I know DTV is soon ridding itself of TiVo and going with some off brand stand alone thing. Maybe I will have to go with an old school stand alone TiVo box then with my DTV when I upgrade to HD then. Who knows.
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|Why would you pay to use a Tivo when you have to buy it and pay for the programming to come to your house? Isn't that a little like buying a car and then paying the dealership a monthly charge to own it plus still have to maintain it and pay for gas and taxes? It's just shows how people aren't smart enough to use the "NO" word. Oh and if you really need to record TV shows, get a TV capture card for around $20 and record it on your HD or remember the thing called DVD and VHS recorders?
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|It's rather simple economics. TiVo sells you a device for less that what it costs them to make. They subsidize the cost over the course of your monthly payments.
TiVo also provides you with guide data for what's on television. This costs them money, too. They spend money on programmers to develop new revisions of the TiVo software, with new features.
To counter your analogy, why buy a television when you'll have to pay monthly for the programming to watch on it?
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|Snapstream's Beyond TV software is superior to TIVO in every way and it always has been.
With Beyond TV you get a FREE program guide + FREE software updates for the version of the program you own. I'm sure this all costs Snapstream a LOT of money, but they are not charging customers an additional monthly fee to cover the cost for a free program guide.
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|Hmm. how is buying a TV that you have to only pay for cable or (those less fortunate) satellite the same as replacing the DVR that you already have with a new box that does little more and has all the draw backs that I have listed in other posts and on top of you buying another box to replace the one you already have, you have to pay a subscription?
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|I don't need no stinkin' TIVO. In my day, we watched Ed Sullivan and Lawrence Welk and Bonanza when they came on.
But back then we didn't work 12-hour days either. Nor did we pay for TV. Those were the days.
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|Wow, I thought the idea was to make more people want a service.
/sarcasm on
I guess Tivo is getting all greedy and actually wants to make a profit.
Haven't they heard of open source??? Don't they know it's unethical to make money? Just look at Bill Gates!!!
/sarcasm off
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|Cool. Now more people will build their own DVR.
That's the way to go anyway.
Later JunkVo.
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|A $150 ETF seems like a lot for a $12.95 monthly service... Well, I'm never getting tivo now.
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|Well...let's see. Who's going to buy a 200 piece of equipment with a 150 rebate and, you know - not use the rebate? Personally as much as I've liked Tivo service when I used it, I've gone to the darkside and I just use my Comcast DVR service now. Sure it's ALOT less features but it does the 3 things I need it to do:
1. Record shows
2. Record shows by season (new)
3. Record shows by time, date, etc.
So I'm satisfied. I also don't need a phoneline to get it started and it only costs $10 a month.
Tivo is going to have it's way with customers now that it's almost like a cell phone. People who love their TV are now dependent on it, and they know that. Also, many new users won't care about contracts - hell, there's contracts on everything nowadays, cell phone, DSL, etc. It's just sad that a company who seemed so 'for' the people is ending up and turning out to be, just another company....wanting as much profit at the least effort as possible.
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|i have seen cable companies DVRs... in our area we have Time Warner Cable (the biggest cable company in US) and their DVR sucks... for one, if the show changes times or is postponed due to alternate programing, it will still record at that time.. the tivo changes with the show. it doesnt go by time slots, but by shoow names. and cable DVR's are so slow annoying. i will be at my cousins house and trying to get some info takes a long time and you often goo too far or push a button too many times because the reactoin time is slower than a snail.... i personaly have Dish Network, and they offer a tivo box with their service that you buy, and the tivo service comes with the satelite. and there is no way that it costs $10. i once had digital cable, and it was yes $10 for the "box", but there was also $7 for EACH remote, a digital box service cost and a high cost for the "digital" cable. and for cost, my cousin pays $80/month for digital cable with DVR, it i were to get a tivo with my dish, it would cost less $60/month, AND i get more channels than digital cable and HD channels.
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|apparently the 12 month committment is only in effect if you use the $150 rebate. if you were a member before or a new subscriber that didn't use the rebate for whatever reason, you're in the clear.
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|No, TiVo has been doing for sometime a required 1 year contract on rebates and promotions. But TiVo is now requiring a new 1 contract to all new activations no matter if it is a promotion or not. Here is the link on TiVo website http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp, read number 8.
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