RSSToshiba Boosts Capacity of HD DVD
by Scott M. Fulton, III
Working to make up some lost ground after last week's news of the first evidence of blue laser diode shortages, HD DVD's principal steward Toshiba announced this morning it will be jointly proposing with disc manufacturer Memory-Tech the first triple-layer DVD.
According to Toshiba, the new specification will include one layer devoted to HD DVD, a second to DVD, and a third layer which can be apportioned to either format, enabling dual-layer HD DVD (30 GB) or dual-layer DVD-9 (8.5 GB).
Twin format HD DVD/DVD discs do exist today, but with a single 15 GB HD DVD layer on one side, and a single 4.7 GB DVD layer on the opposite, bound to the substrate in the middle.
Based on preliminary information from Memory-Tech released in December 2004, it and Toshiba had planned to use an extremely thin bonding substrate layer to combine two dual-layer discs. Already, substrates had to be reduced in thickness to 0.1 mm or below to support two layers that, once bonded, just exceed the 1.2 mm guidelines.
Although not specifically detailed by either company, the thickness of the four-layer Twin format would probably just exceed 1.3 mm, since 0.3 mm per layer is required to enable enough depth for both red and blue lasers to distinguish between signals.
By apparently eliminating one of these layers, and letting the customer decide which one, the two companies appear to have come across a "hybrid hybrid" solution, if you will. The resulting triple layer disc will keep the final thickness at 1.2 mm or below.
Blu-ray faced similar challenges in maximizing the capacity of its blue-laser based format. The first Blu-ray Disc prototypes two years ago required protective cartridges, because chemicals necessary for the substrates Sony and Toshiba now require, had not yet been invented.
A small-print notice appearing toward the bottom of the specifications sheet for Toshiba's HD-A1 HD DVD player now conspicuously reads, "Some Twin Format Discs may not be compatible with all players."
Although it may take several more months for the new format to be formally adopted by the DVD Forum, and more months afterwards for manufacturers to retool, some customers may find themselves upgrading their HD DVD player's system firmware to accommodate the dual-layer DVD-9 format. The HD-A1 and HD-XA1 currently support double-sided DVD-RAM, but Toshiba does not list DVD-9 by name for video playback.
40 Comments
So is it safe to say no one wants to buy the wrong format, so we'll be buying neither until one wins? Consumers don't have the cash right now to buy the wrong horse and have to pay to convert all their data to the other format. And what about companies other than big media companies?
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It's not really the same (and it was 30 years ago..)
1/ Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are backwards compatible with CD/DVD discs
2/ You can also gaurentee there will eventually be dual format drives, as the media is physically the same size.
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I know this will show my level of lack of techy knowledge but so what. After having seen all these new "formats" where will that leave the consumer as in this sure looks like the old VHS/BETA wars of not so long ago? The way I see it, we aren't looking at years for a player to be obsolete or at the very least incompatible but, in fact, only months! That could make for a lot of angry consumers out there.
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Compatibility is the whole idea behind these new discs. One of the layers can be used for regular DVD content, so you can play it on any DVD player (not in HD resolution of course). This way even those who don't own an HD-DVD player yet can start buying movies in this format and be able to watch them on their old DVD player. When they are ready to upgrade they can already have a start on their HD movie collection. :)
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Yeah, this will be usefull... for the next 3-6 months :)
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Yawn, a desperate attempt by Toshiba to counter the TDK Blu-Ray 200GB news...
http://www.betanews.com/..._Bluray_Disc/1157125164
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Yawn, the Sony fanboy appears to spew his venom. Don't you ever get tired of trolling?
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That question would be better answered by yourself.
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agghh, too much hate goin around :|
:D Isn't Sony in both consortiums? They should be hated and consumers should champion one of the SOUTHEAST asian formats...HDV.
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Why, I'm not the one that pops up in every HD-DVD thread and starts hating on it and posting links to Blu-Ray stuff. This article isn't about Blu-Ray but the very first comment is "yawn a desperate attempt by Toshiba to counter the TDK Blu-Ray 200GB news". That is trolling. It is no different then going to a thread about AMD and posting that they are crap and Intel is faster.
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Sony isn't in the HD-DVD Group. Hell, almost no-one is.
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If the guy is doing something wrong, the admins will take appropriate action. Don't backseat mod.
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*disregard, replied to wrong post*
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Almost no one?
http://www.hddvdprg.com/about/member.html
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that's mean ;p
EDIT: ahh, I know where I got my info. And I wonder how others would look at it. Sony is a rebel and we should then love them for it? Just kidding of course, in a way.
2 camps, HD dvd and Blu Ray. HD dvd is from the DVD Forum, of which Sony was and most likely still is. But Sony has it's own competing next gen optical, ala Blu Ray...so it left its old gang to form its own! hehe
Ah, the politics of business. :)
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My List is bigger than yours... And has got many bigger names on it....
http://www.blu-raydisc.c...ection-14009/Index.html
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My assertion was not that HD-DVD had more supporters, but that the statement that it "almost no-one supports it" is false.
So far, having more support certainly hasn't been much help to Blu-Ray as HD-DVD continues to outsell it.
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Yawn, You don't need 200GB for a HD movie. Yawn, Blue-Ray cost 2 times as much. Yawn, Blue-Ray is having problems with their lasers burning out.
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"My assertion was not that HD-DVD had more supporters, but that the statement that it "almost no-one supports it" is false."
hy‧per‧bo‧le /haɪˈpɜrbəli/ –noun Rhetoric
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”
http://dictionary.refere...perbole&x=0&y=0
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http://www.dvdforum.org/about-memberlist.htm
compared to
http://www.blu-raydisc.c...ection-14009/Index.html
Blu-ray has less supporting companies...so now MY list is bigger.
Just thought id inform is all :).
Latz, SB
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HD-DVD is only outselling Blu-Ray, as they were first to market, with simpler technology.
Once Blu-Ray comes onstream, and assuming HD-DVD has not opened up such a lead, that it's unstoppable (unlikely at it's current pace, with only 40,000 players sold), then things will be VERY different.
The initial criticisms about the quality of the MPEG2 encoded initial Blu-Ray titles are now a thing of the past (fantastic looking VC-1 titles are now out), things are looking up for Blu-Ray. Sony have to not screw up the PS3 launch anymore than they already have done...
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That's cheating, as only a few of the companies on the DVDForum are supporting HD-DVD, most are sitting this battle out...
The real lists, show that MANY bigger names live on the Blu-Ray list, with only basically Tosihiba, Sanyo and Hitachi serving HD-DVD hardware, of which only Toshiba are selling anything...
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My apology then, it is difficult to tell on a message board sometimes.
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I don't believe being first to market is the reason, but more the fact that Blu-Ray players cost twice as much, have far fewer titles out and those that are out have gotten bad reviews for their picture quality compared to HD-DVD. I know titles are now coming out in VC1 format but first impressions are important and once something gets a bad reputation it's hard to shake it.
IMO Blu-Ray is never going to come onstream as you say. By the time their biggest hope, the PS3 comes out HD-DVD will have an even larger lead. Plus the way Sony is screwing up with the PS3 I don't think that's going to save it anyway. Like I say, this is only my opinion but I believe Blu-Ray is going to lose.
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This article isn't about simple capacity as you would have known if you'd bother to read it before bashing. This is about the introduction of a hybrid format with both DVD and HD-DVD content on one single sided disc. It has absolutely nothing to do with trying to counter the 200GB blank discs. These are movies, not blank media. Please pay attention next time.
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But our list has Microsoft, so that counts as 20 companies :)
(please don't reply out of anger--it's a frikin joke.)
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Whats more funny is that Mark does think you need that much room for a HD movie.
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Yes, and your just being one of those annoying little bas****s that wont get off our sleeves!
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THats not cheating, your just mad and want to think your right.
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Well, I don't think he wants to swap discs when watching those 100+ hours of lord of the rings extras in high def. (Because we know all those behind the scenes extras will be filmed in HD, right?)
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"By the time their biggest hope, the PS3 comes..."
Our hope is not PS3 but Panasonic, Philips, Sony (player), LG, Sharp, Pioneer... And what is HD DVD fanboys hope? Third player from Toshiba maybe? Hahaha to that!
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"Not Found
The requested URL /about/member.html was not found on this server."
Great member list! :)
Anyway. Just compare the entrys of those lists DVD vs BD and think about who will win ;)
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Wll this list says then, that SONY and TDK are a HD DVD supporter? Yes?
Yeah, its not fake! Its joke! HAhahaha!
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DaVinci Code, released on Blu-Ray later this year, will be a 50GB release, with all the extras in HD, Oh, and it's a Blu-Ray only release unfortunatly...
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And these extras are going to make everyone buy a Blu-Ray player. I think not.
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I'll see your Davinci Code and raise you The Lord of the Rings trilogy on HD-DVD. :P
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It's true, Sony is a member of the DVD forum. That does not mean they support HD-DVD however.
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Yeah they've released so many great players. If you think they won't be jumping ship and making HD-DVD players you're deluded. Companies want to sell their products, and more consumers are choosing HD-DVD over Blu-Ray. Doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure this one out.
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More companies supporting a product does not mean the product will win.
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One problem I've noticed is customer confusion (no surprise there). I was shopping at Wal-Mart with my wife and witnessed an exchange in the electronics department between an employee and a customer who was trying to return a HD-DVD. The employee was explaining that the HD-DVD could not be returned since it had been opened and the customer was playing that it didn't work. The employee explained that he needed a HD-DVD drive to play it and that a DVD drive wasn't enough. His response?
Ignorant Customer: "But it says DVD right there!"
What an idiot. Did he think the HD part meant How Dumb?
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