It's pretty obvious that the Blu-ray gang are really scared sh!teless about this one.

It's not just about DVD players either, 'Super Upconversion' will also be incorporated into HD TVs as a high quality scaler for SD broadcasts.

There's a hell of a lot of disinformation being spread about this one too (always a good give-away the opposition are worried).

Try googling 'Toshiba Super Upconversion' and see how much dumb lying Blu-ray BS you get.

The facts are that this works by scanning the SD DVD frames before and after the image being shown & combining them onto the image being shown at a higher resolution.

It's what forensic film & video labs have been doing for decades.
It does work and it does generate real additional detail.

(as courts across the world accept and have accepted for decades)

There is also the fact that DVD will be a huge part of the market for many years to come, no matter what else happens.

Why shouldn't Toshiba (or anyone else for that matter) provide the consumer with a better DVD player?

Where's all the anger, snide comments & bile over Oppo's new high quality DVD player?

Obviously the Blu-ray drones know this new Toshiba could very well slow the adoption of Blu-ray even further to the point where it just fizzles out and fails to get adoption in the mass-market
(like as if Blu-ray was ever about being anything other than a high margin niche anyways.......it's why the studios killed off HD DVD, they don't want a low cost video medium, not if they can help it).

......as if there is any reason why the rest of us should 'support' those greedy b@stards anyways.

Wow such a waste of time reading your comment...

"It's what forensic film & video labs have been doing for decades." : Hey come on, you have to choose the time and place to do so... will you be able to merge a frame with a beautiful landscape and /cut/ a closed-up scene of a man's face in the next scene ??? **** no !!! Movies are NOT steady cams... Super-awesome-next-DVD-format is just a waste of time ans money from toshiba...

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blu052608.htm

http://www.hollywoodinhi.../blog_detail.php?id=201

leave it to Ed Oswald the HD-DVD nuthugger to write this "article"....Ed is still bitter that he backed the wrong horse in the High Def format war...he will also be the first on line to buy these new discs when they release..

lets take a serious look at the situation...was HD-DVD cheaper? yes...was HD-DVD a finished spec upon release? yes...those are the two advantages Toshiba had...they worked for awhile...but not in the long run...Toshiba shot themselves in the foot when they paid off Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive...they opened Pandora's box...now there is no confirmation that the BDA paid off Warner, but even if they did Toshiba brought it on themselves by paying off Paramount....end of story...

now...yes BD players are expensive and yes Toshiba was selling HD-DVD players for MUCH cheaper...but the reason Toshiba was selling players so low was because they were getting KILLED in movie sales...BD outsold HD-DVD EVERY SINGLE WEEK of 2007...even the week of the transformers release...Toshiba was taking HUGE hits on every player sold in an attempt to climb back into the race....that failed miserably...

next, anyone who says upscaled DVD is even in the same league as BD or HD-DVD = BLIND...no contest here...simple mathematics...1920x1080 vs 720x480...you can use all the fancy algorithms you want to guess at the information needed to fill the gap, but at the end of the day upscaling does NOT equal HD...it does a great job...and my SD-DVD LotR films look GREAT on my HDTV upscaled by my PS3...but its simply not HD....

on to sales...OF COURSE DVD is going to outsell BD for now...and will for a couple years....it took DVD 7 years before they outsold VHS in sales for just a year....BD will gain ground and outsell DVD it just takes time...

prices...how can people honestly complain about BD prices...do you remember what DVD players and movies cost when they first released? it was not sub $100 for players, and less than $20 for movies ill tell you that....not to mention just use Amazon.com for BD purchases...they KILL all the retail chain prices easily...

*laughing*

Nate wrote most of the HD-DVD articles, DH.

don't even get me started about Nate!

Meh, upscaled DVD looks ok to me at 132" (no question it's not as sharp as 1080 native, but meh).

$60 for a picture that looks pretty good; or $399 for a picture that looks better. hmmm

I dunno, tough call. I think I'll go with something else entirely for 1080 content.

Oh wait; there's DishHD and it's $20 a month more for HD content (plus rental fees). Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks.

Please continue, so Nate can delete your account.

Thx.

That is true. Nate will kill your account if you disagree with him.

I KNOW....twice lol

No, he'll kill it if your a troll and you start talking smack.

I speak from experience.

Thanks.

this is what i don't get....you spend money to rock a 132" projector....and then you settle for "ok?"...makes no sense....i have a 37" SD CRT that looks "ok" too but does that mean i shouldn't get an HDTV??...

and don't even go to broadcast HD, or even worse Satellite HD!....i'll pass on that compressed to all hell nonsense they try to pass off as HD...

1. Compressed to hell
2. no 1080p broadcasts
3. crappy "lossy" audio codecs
4. many channels don't even broadcast in actual HD, they stretch a lot of their material

nonsense....HD-DVD or Blu-ray offer hands down the highest quality audio and video experience available...

Aha, so you did make it back! ;)

DVD looks just great upscaled, it's clearly not HD but you know what, it looks just fine.

It's not 480i being upscaled, nor is it broadcast quality being stretched (my non-hd tv channels look like CRAP).

DVD, it looks ok. There are some older DVDs that don't upscale well, but all the newer ones do.

My HD-A2 upscales wonderfully.

Concerning your other points:

1. DishHD isn't compressed like comcast. It's broadcast in 1080i.

2. I don't care, you can barely see the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Some people can't see it at all.

3. I get audio in 5.1 from the dish and 6.1 from my upscaler, I can't hear well anyway so meh. I'm ready for 7.1.

4. I've only seen this with the Simpsons, commercials, and older stuff that I don't care about anyway so meh.

HD-DVD is dead, you know that.

BluRay isn't ready for consumers (too expensive). When it is, I'll own it.

Ah.... So *anyone* who disagrees with you is biased.

Got it.

I do find it funny that certain people like to shout about how think they know all the costs of the HD DVD project so well.

The facts are that it only 'cost' Toshiba $460 million (which we know from the highly unusual 'all-in-one, once-and-for-all, payment' they made in their financial statement this year)

Blu-ray on the other hand has seen Sony alone post losses of several hundred million for years.

Equally the US NTSC resolution (480 visible lines) is not everyone's experience.
In Europe our PAL TV system is 576 lines.
So upscaling here is much much better looking than in the USA.

There's also the small matter of TV sizes & viewing distances.
Not everyone has the space or inclination to turn their home into a mini-movieplex.
32" - 50" is always going to be the preferred size range for the majority.

So all those vast benefits some claim for high def turn out not to be so vast and for as long as that beneift is not so great and is coming at a large cost then don't be so surprised that survey after survey is indicating Blu-ray growth is at a slow crawl and going to stay that way for years to come.

(especially as they are still totally reliant on a kid's game console few adults will want)

In Europe it's 576 lines being upscaled and it looks better for it.

You're right, it's not high def but it is coming on decent DVD players @ £30 - £50 ($60 - $100) with a mid range DVD player around £75 - £100 ($150 - $200).

The best Blu-ray prices here (usually something like an old model on offer, like the Samsung BD1400) are around the £200 ($400) level.

It's not hard to see why Blu-ray is not going anywhere fast outside of the PS3 niche.

Hey, if I can upgrade the firmware of my HD-A2 to play these new magic discs, I'm all for it! Otherwise, meh...I'm still enjoying it as the fantasmagorical upconverting player it is. Never regretted the $100 I spent on it last December. Between the free discs and the quality of playback of standard DVDs (even without 1080p), yeah, I'm bummed the format is dead, but no regrets.

I still find it amusing that Blu-Ray mindshare has dropped since HDDVD died. Amazing what competition can do for you sometimes. I'm sure some of the big studios are lamenting their abandonment of HD-DVD a little.

They are thinking in the right direction. If you offer this at zero cost for an upgrade and have a decent picutre (as you get with dvd's on these upconverting players) they can grab part of this market. If they are wise they will continue to take bites of the market so that less and less people even consider bloray

"I still find it amusing that Blu-Ray mindshare has dropped since HDDVD died. Amazing what competition can do for you sometimes. I'm sure some of the big studios are lamenting their abandonment of HD-DVD a little. "

I whole heartly agree.

The irony of this is that people are now burning blu-ray compliant dvd's.
Yes its illegal as the sources most likely came from certain trackers but it's being done primarly to play them on the ps3

Are you talking about HD-DVD's or regular DVD's? There's no need to burn a regular DVD to a Blu-Ray disc to play it on a PS3.

He's talking about burning PIRATED blu ray disc images to DVD's so you can play it. This is for those without blu ray drives.

wow so what your saying is i can use my POS3 to play DVD movies i get off the internet (not bloray HD movies) instead of just using my DVD player.

Fantastic! what next??

Use your controller for ingame menus?
Use your POS3 to make toast.

Really?
So how do these movies fit on the capasity of DVD's?

What is the picture like?
Can you make out the characters by the pixels?

The only way that a 1080p movie might fit on a DVD is if it's a dual sided, dual layer DVD depending on the compression used for the original movie. Personally, I think it would be way too much work to split a Blu-Ray movie into two parts just to fit it on a two sided disc.

I haven't used it for video, but split would probably do it with ease.

Same way all those hdrips fit on dvd's now.
Like i say, its illegal and you would not know about it unless you paid attention to what people were ripping.
Why do you think people have tvix and popcornhour and all those sorts of things? To play dvdrips? The so called x264 scene is massive now - and now you can play them on your ps3 by simply burning a dvd.

Quality by the way - is HD. As long as its encoded well and uses the same profile as blu-ray/hd-dvd use

It can play blu-ray rips burnt to dvd. Something previously not possible but made so because someone decided to follow the same standard.
Might not be big news to you, its huge news to people who dont like to pay for all their blu-ray movies

Finally they return to the tried and true format that is PROVEN a universal compatiblity. DVD. Stay with that and upscale if you have to be anal about HD. For me I could not care less about BlueRay or HDDVD. as I knew from the very beginning they were just another technopile BS fantasy to get people to pay 3times the price for the same movies they already have on an already great format and a scheme to get people to buy machines that will not work as designed and force people to buy them over and over again at high cost. No one can argue that a DVD quality is not good. Far better then what you get off broadcast air. And thats MORE then enough for anyone. I mean I look at my 40" projection and my uncles 42inch Plasma, and I'm like so what? So your Discs cost you $34 per movie and most of mine cost $19 per movie for basically the same thing... Yea thats a good thing. NOT!

For me I stay with the model that not only been there and done that, but has millions of pressed content to show for it sold every day. Blue ray MAY have sold many, but I'm positive its a fraction of the number of DVD sales at a lower cost for the same content. More DVDs out there then blueray players..

And I agree Just making a better DVD was ALWAYS the better solution in my book. Same proven format everyone already has WITHOUT having to rebuy your entire library for the new medium. And no more clunky DRM updates every generation release of BR either. Good riddance to clunky garbage DRM technology.

Lets see, there are more DVD's than blu-rays. Lets see, how long has DVD been on the market? How long has BRD been on the market? I remember when DVD first started out and VHS fanatics were making the same claims about their format and how they refused to rebuy their collection in DVD.

The problem here many people fail to realize is that BRD is not meant to overtake DVD in the short term. It is designed for people who have a system that is capable of supporting the output of BRD. As more and more people adopt to the large screen LCD's, OLED's, and SED's, more people will adopt to the format which will provide them with the best picture for their equipment. I am not buying every new movie on BRD, but I will buy ones which I deem worth having in HD. Eventually, the costs will lower. I remember when a standard DVD cost 24.99-29.99 per disc. This was even for older movies which can now be had for 3 dollars in your local walmart.

Time will bring down the cost, but it will not happen overnight. Also, no one says you have to rebuy your entire collection. Many BRD players will upconvert your DVD collection to HD. So the need to rebuy every title is negated.

"...with Sony's continuing resistance to bring down the price of Blu-ray players".
Do you have evidence of this Betanews? No, no you don't. Give me a break BN. Take your biased hat off for a second.

It's not that Sony (or any other BR maker) is refusing to lower prices. They can't! The cost is still too high. Tosh sold all those $99 players at huge loses. Their profits plunged by 95% due to the failure of HDDVD.

TOSH just wants to wait until there is less risk in manufacturing BR. They can't afford to invest on a technology without immediate results. I can't say that I blame them. Not every company can take a 95% loss in net profit!

"Do you have evidence of this Betanews? No, no you don't. Give me a break BN. Take your biased hat off for a second."

Comon you said it in your own post

"It's not that Sony (or any other BR maker) is refusing to lower prices. They can't! The cost is still too high"

That's resisting and you agreed with it

Is it wrong for sony to not want to end up like toshiba and take a loss at such a significant margin? When a more mass adoption occurs, prices will drop. Its a matter of supply and demand, the demand isnt currently at the point where lowering the cost is feasible.

It's wrong for Sony to screw consumers by pushing out the lower cost just-as-good technology through payouts to the industry, and then to raise prices screwing us even more.

Sure.

Is it illegal? Probably not.

Your a fool if you think Toshiba is waiting on stable format for BR. Think about it.. why invest another billion dollars in manufacturing when they clearly are moving onto other tech. Look at MS, if you think they are going to offer a external BD drive you should continue to smoke from Sony's bung hole and let those halucinations deepen.

"...smoke from Sony's bung hole".

If you can't have an intelligent debate mate, then move along.

Sometimes if you can't have intelligent, clever will have to suffice. :)

Sony can do what they want in that regard, we can’t second guess their reasons for it either.
I’m only pointing out that the OP even stated himself that Sony were holding back from dropping the prices – even if its for a very good reason it’s still their choice. They COULD have dropped the prices and taken a huge loss but they resisted and chose to just let things flow for now :)
There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever, BN reported it correctly.
And I agree there’s no point for them to drop prices and take a loss. The market isn’t going to challenge them anytime soon so they should be making money not loosing it

You can thank Microsoft for killing HD-DVD. All they had to do was include it in the 360 and the war would've been over before it started.

What people don't understand is MS didn't ever want HD-DVD or Blu-Ray to succeed. They are in the digital download business NOT the optical disc business.

True, but even they know that is a good full console off (as the broadband to houses everywhere isn't fiber yet).

GO TOSHIBA! *bitter over HD DVD*

Blu-Ray will never get any foot on the ground, it is dead today and it will be dead tomorrow.

People are sick of Sony's crap and they are perfectly right.

Even if Sony and others in their alliance present US$200 players, they still need to provide a complete specification rather than forcing people to buy something new to play new content, which apparently sometimes obsoletes old content.

If Toshiba could get higher resolution content onto a standard DVD with reasonable time, that might be good for everyone, but Sony, of course.

Sony tried the exact same thing with their SACD format with CDs. Look what happened with that format.

You have to purchase new discs and a new player (new codecs/layout) for the new format so it's not really any different that HD-DVD or Blu-ray in terms of the consumer.

SACD's were a joke. Music studios had to record the original music in high resolution PCM and then convert the audio to Direct Stream Digital because once the audio is in DSD format it's very difficult, if not impossible, to edit. The only advantage SACD's had over DVD-Audio was that the hybrid SACD's were 100% compatible with the original CD Audio specification unlike Dual Disc.

"Sony's continuing resistance to bring down the price of Blu-ray players"

I'm sure Sony will hear that and promptly ignore it, LOL. I'm not going anywhere near Blu-ray until they can get their collective crap together and lower the prices on their players -- I'm not asking for a $100 player, but

I am all for any company that can pop the big a$$ head that Sony has. With Sony being the bully in the world of music, blu-ray etc.. Toshiba is kinda like a nerd plotting revenge on the bully that's beaten them up. To Toshiba I wish the best of luck.

True about Sony's egomania.

Loved how not that long ago, Sony claimed it had no worries regarding the Nintendo Wii, as they saw it as "no competition" for the mighty PS3.

Flash forward to today & Wii pretty much outselling PS3 & 360 by a near 2-1 ratio combined.

What was that about "no competition", Sony?

Interested to see if Tosh can pull this magic trick of making DVD "HD" off. Supposedly, it is utilizing what is being called "Super Resolution" & differs from current upscaling tech. If successful, it may not KILL BD, but it'll make a massive dent in BD adoption. ANd that's gonna hurt the BDA.

Studios, OTOH, might dig seeing regular DVD sales increase if they can get "close enough" to BD PQ via these new players. As long as we buy thier discs, I doubt any studio cares which version you buy.

they didnt know that "old people/parents" would think wii was "cool"... its the older crowd that is making the wii out to be bigger than what it is.. imo wii is corny.

I have psp, xbx360, ps3... and have no reason or intention to buy a wii

i know i'm off topic, but I always hear my co-workers (i work at a bank) talk about "i want to get a wii so i can lose weight" blah

That's why you think it's corny. You don't have one.

I thought it was stupid too, till I owned it.