RSSVista's image problem personified
By Tim Conneally and Scott M. Fulton, III | Published August 22, 2008, 1:34 PM
It might not have even been a story meriting any extent of coverage -- Microsoft's hiring yesterday of comedian Jerry Seinfeld as its new commercial spokesperson -- had it not been for the fact that Microsoft has an image problem. That problem is due in large part to Windows Vista, and the public perception of it as somewhat less than the savior of modern computing that it was originally promoted to be in the early months of 2007.
As was widely reported yesterday, Microsoft is reportedly investing $300 million in a new advertising campaign starring comedian Jerry Seinfeld, and designed by the firm responsible for Burger King's popular, yet disturbing "King" ads. You may recall, the ones where ordinary people find themselves conversing with a plastic, motionless, mute Burger King statue that they find in their midst for no apparent reason.
Crispin Porter + Bogusky's new ad campaign for Microsoft will reportedly pair Seinfeld (although Hollywood sources are reporting that Will Farrell and Chris Rock were also considered) with the always hilarious Bill Gates, whom we hope will not appear as plastic or immobile. The campaign is being called "Windows, Not Walls;" and for some reason, visions of Rowan & Martin's famous "joke wall" immediately come to mind.
It is the very fact that there will be a pairing at all for comedy purposes that will ensure this campaign will be compared for message, effectiveness, humor...lighting, cinematography, wardrobe...with the "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" campaign mounted by Apple. Regardless of whether that campaign has the "reach-to-conversion" ratio of other campaigns for cars or home appliances or even computers, Apple's will most likely be viewed as among the most successful advertising productions in the history of the medium.
Not that Seinfeld's previous work in advertising has been all that bad. Just last year, he was a spokesperson for HP in its continuing "The Computer is Personal Again" campaign, which has included Mark Cuban, Pharell, Vera Wang, Shaun White, and Serena Williams, among others. That series of ads has coincided with an increase in notebook sales that amounts to 26% worldwide.
| Ask yourself, when you saw this HP ad featuring Jerry Seinfeld last year for the first time, whether you thought, "Gee, HP Presarios must not be such sucky laptops after all?" |
But we don't recall anyone at that time ever suggesting that Seinfeld's hiring by HP in 2007 (which, by the way, did feature Vista) was ever done as a rescue mission to repair HP's fallen image. Companies hire commercial spokespersons all the time, especially good ones like Seinfeld. Only in Microsoft's case could anyone have jumped to the conclusion that the hiring of a reputable celebrity was done as part of a rescue operation.
And whose fault is that? In July, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer mentioned an ad campaign would soon be released that would "address any lingering doubts our customers may have about Windows Vista." This statement could have been referring to Microsoft's now-infamous Mojave experiment, where users were exposed to a new Windows OS that was actually just Vista; since the videos were revealed shortly after Ballmer made the statement. Or it could be referring to the upcoming Seinfeld campaign, which is expected to premiere on September 4th.
As of today, we're still awaiting Microsoft's comment on whether the upcoming ads are, in fact, a continuation of Mojave, or something new.
Senior Vice President Carmi Levy of AR Communications told BetaNews, "I think Microsoft has been quite up-front about the gap between the public's perception of Vista's capabilities and Vista's actual capabilities. The company earlier this summer admitted it needed to invest more resources into addressing lingering public perceptions that Vista is a dog of a product that has failed to live up to its potential. Signing Jerry Seinfeld up as a spokesperson is an early step along this road."
| As we all know, the right commercial spokesperson can spell phenomenal success for both a product and its manufacturer. |
That attempt at transparency, however, may actually contribute to the problem, because Ballmer's statements carried with them a much stronger message. Microsoft is making a $300 million advertising expenditure simply to clean up the public's opinion of Vista. Whatever truths there are about the quality of the operating system, Microsoft has allowed the perception problem to get so bad that even the operating system's celebrity representatives have become newsworthy.
The truth about Windows Vista, when we get down to brass tacks, is that it isn't all that different from the last two major revisions of Windows. It is far from a thing of beauty, nor is it completely workable, even after SP1. But it is also a far cry from Windows Me, perhaps Microsoft's single worst rendition of the OS. In the end, it's no worse on its worst days than Windows XP on its worst.
But XP was never under such an intense spotlight during its life cycle (which was supposed to have already ended). Vista's failures give even its most expert users the impression of XP as some oasis of efficiency and manageability. Part of the reason for that is simply because Vista hasn't met expectations. But the other part is because statements like Ballmer's have only helped magnify the problem. As a result, any move Microsoft may make to address Vista's image, whether it hires Seinfeld or Chris Rock or Walter Cronkite, may be taken as a validation that a more critical problem exists, one which cuts into the core of its design.
And all Apple has to do is post a follow-up saying, "See? Told you."
A retired Madison Avenue ad executive told one of us 30 years ago, as advice for how to write for the public, that once you plant a seed of doubt in the reader's mind as to whether the efficacy of something you yourself are doing (case in point, making stupid grammatical errors), the reader will inevitably come to believe it.
Last year, Vista's product manager Nick White admitted to BetaNews that the main problem with the OS was the lack of a real marketing push. We saw the beginnings of the "Open up your digital life" campaign, but it did little to reverse the bad press Vista had already received.
As Levy continued, this latest move to unite the comedy team of Seinfeld and Gates "isn't so much a knee-jerk reaction to this situation than it is a concerted effort by Microsoft to shed its image as a stodgy marketer. Apple has its rock star CEO Steve Jobs who turns every major announcement into a cultural event. Microsoft has never had similar DNA, but that doesn't mean it can't take a stab at being a little cooler than it has been in the past."
As some have suggested, Microsoft might do better to spend its $300 million in an effort to simply improve, or correct, Vista. The problem is, Microsoft has already tried that approach: concentrating on improving the product, in the face of mounting criticisms -- some real, some contrived. It's the approach Sen. John Kerry took in 2004 when he was attacked for a number of made-up reasons, and we all know what happened to him.
One is left wondering: Has Microsoft successfully been "swift-boated?"
Levy suggests "Microsoft isn't in crisis mode just yet. But the writing is on the wall for both of its major cash cow franchises, Windows and Office. The shift toward the Web is putting pressure on Microsoft to address market performance shortcomings more aggressively. I would expect more high profile marketing announcements along the lines of the Jerry Seinfeld deal in the months to come, as Microsoft can no longer afford to trail the industry in terms of the punching power of its messaging."
Regardless of any shortcomings Vista may have -- and there definitely are some -- had the public perception of the operating system in the beginning of its life cycle not been allowed to slip into negative territory, the very subject of Seinfeld's hiring would not have merited so much attention. As an exercise, extract Microsoft from this argument for a moment and substitute Dell -- another company with a negative perception problem. Pair Jerry Seinfeld with Michael Dell. Such an appointment would have merited maybe a blurb running along the crawler of MSNBC. And that would've been it.
When you plant a seed of doubt about yourself or your own work in someone else's mind, you've given it the fertilizer it needs to grow and flourish. On day one of the Seinfeld campaign, he'll already be facing an uphill battle. He'll be expected to "rebut" Apple. And though he may be a genius in the art, comedy may not be the real attitude adjustment that Microsoft needs now.
| Here's a clip from what British viewers still consider one of the most memorable celebrity-spearheaded campaigns of the 1980s. Compaq, you may recall, never had an image problem, and perhaps John Cleese was one reason why. |
How is the 64 bit version of Vista running these days? I know they had a lot of problems at the start with driver support etc...
I am asking because i am going to build a new machine in a month or so.
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|Runs great on my two machines. No issues or lockups at all.
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|thanks.
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|The only issue that I found which is really not a big deal is the Red Alert 3 beta test does not support 64 bit. Thought that was rather odd.
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|Works great! I have Vista SP1 Home Premium x64 and Ultimate x64 installed on two computers and they work great! Definitely the best OS out there :) kicks crap OS X's ass!
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|I have a laptop that is running on Vista Home Premium and I have a tower computer that is running xp. The laptop has crashed and burned 4 repeat 4 times in 5 months. The xp machine has crashed once in 7 years when the hard drive failed. Which one do you think I prefer to use? XP because it works!
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|Iam sure that the 54 year old Seinfeld will have great appeal to the tech savvy Nik/Disney generation. Who the heck are they trying to target?
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|For people who just want something that works straight out the box, Apple are great. Basically they make cool-looking gadgets for people who want to use technology without actually understanding it. Gadget lovers. I've got loads of friends like that (look! I plugged it in, and hey presto, I can edit my video with this ready-made utility!) As they don't really understand computing, these people have no desire to customize their hardware and software to do something outside the bounds of what the manufacturer want you to do in their best commercial interests. Computers and MP3 players for dummies. Apple are VERY good at it. And more power to them. Their customers love it, because that's what they want - no hassle "just works" tech.
Linux is the other end of the spectrum, and could be great, if it wasn't for the fact that all the things people have got to love while using Microsoft (not the OS, the apps and utilities that run on it) are not yet available. I don't WAN'T to have to dual boot OSs or run emulation software just to load up something that I find useful that I can't get for linux.
Microsoft play the middle ground, although have slowly but surely moved to try to be more like Apple, seeing how successful their model is. They fail because they can't attract the Mac crowd, who are already happy with their "just works" "looks great" gadget OS, while Microsoft's concentration on such (from my perspective as an IT professional) nonsense, is alienating. I just want them to build a highly functional, streamlined, OS that gets FASTER with each iteration. Hell, hardware gets faster exponentially it seems, why can't the software follow?
And as for functionality, Microsoft are hopeless. There STILL isn't even a decent file manager in Windows for advanced users! I have to pay to use xplorer2 or another replacement, and how integral to the OS is that? There's no decent password management (I use Keepass), search facility (I use Locate32), disk imaging (I use Disk Snapshot), media player (foobar), media manager (xnview), system cleaner (ccleaner) etc etc... the list goes on and on. What do we get instead? Some new pretty 3d animations, DRM, over-the-top security for idiots who get viruses every five minutes (yeah, most people) and enough other stuff to drag on resources so hard that you have to buy the latest hardware just to run it at the same speed as XP.
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|Microsoft has held back innovation and kept computer users in the stone ages of computing. When people switch to a Mac or visit an Apple store for the first time and spend time in front of a gorgeous and sexy Mac, it's like stepping out of a sewage plant where an entire city's piss and defecation is processed and stepping into a massive spring garden on a bright sunny day.
Hey, even Microsoft's own people are making the switch:
http://cultofmac.com/mic...-happy-mac-convert/2342
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|Not everyone wants to own a machine that places hardware looks, software looks, and enforced tie-ins to corporate strategy above functionality tied to total user configurability.
If you do, fine, and you may even be right that a lot of other people should make the switch, but to people like me who want a computer to run exactly as *I* want it to - both with it's hardware and it's software, the Mac - and other Apple products - are nothing better than pretty-looking toys, and your over-enthusiastic insistence that they are superior in every way - which they are blatantly not (hello? configurability?), just makes you look like a tech-ignorant child.
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|IMHO since 2000 Microsoft dedicates more efforts and resources to their own protection and the protection of hardware providers than to a better service to its customers. In 2008 they are simply collecting the results of their attitude towards users, most of which are not pirates but totally legal institutions like governements, big corporations, airlines, banks etc. in the hands of professionals who know what they are doing and are essentially conservative being their responsability at stake, mostly using Linux for servers and Windows 2000/XP for desktops. This prepared and professional people never becomes lured but suspicious towards the new proposals of Microsoft.
In the other side pirate copies are so easy to obtain everywhere as Linux and easier to install and use. It is simply impossible to put an end to this. You can't "uninvent" any existing pirate copy, but only fight against its public use or distribution using the laws.
IMO the image of Microsoft is not in danger, but I'm afraid you can't say the same about their commercial interests.
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|Invest that much in fixing the product and security holes and it will be a better investment.
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|I don't really care what Microsoft does with Vista. What annoys me the most is that as their customer they try to take away my perfectly reasonable demand for choice. I don't want Vista. I don't care what you do with it, Microsoft. Don't try to force it upon us by stopping sales of XP.
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|Or you could switch to a Mac and be done with Winblows altogether...
http://movies.apple.com/..._20080408_r640-9cie.mov
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|Why on earth would I want to do that? Apple is worse than Microsoft. You can only run MacOS on Apple hardware, or at least Apple tries extremely hard to keep it that way.
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|hahahah, just goes to show how much you know.
We run a triple boot on generic PC hardware.
laughing at the PC noobs...
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|That may be true but the osx project is still rough on hacked machines...
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|There's nothing wrong with healthy competition but internetworld7 and the other obsessed Apple fanboys have some real issues.
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|what was that lewis black line, something like "personal ball washer"
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|LOL
That guy slays me!
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|But BN would be sooo boring without these people...
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|Bring back the Stones. We'll all relive the summer of 95 all over again.
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|I much preferred the Summer of 69.... ;)
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|I suspect that Vista is mostly a victim of "Internet Lemming Syndrome", something that is becoming more and more prevalent as social networking via the internet garners ever larger numbers.
Vista's launch has essentially been hardly better or worse over the first year than Win95, Win98, or WinXP.
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|Don't hate the player, hate the load times for the game...
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|While Vista suffers from image problems, Mac and iPhone sales are skyrocketing! The Mac has gone from a niche player to the 800 pound gorilla in the room:
http://macdailynews.com/...p/weblog/comments/18242/
Humor me with all of your childish insults if you want to, but most of you here will be on the Mac bandwagon before long. The Mac is simply too awesome of an OS to ignore forever! :)
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|MobileMe
3G connection issues.
lawsuits...
...yeah, they're doing real good.
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|Yes Mac OS X is a nice OS; that's not the problem. The problem is the cost of Apple's hardware. Every computer they sell is over-priced. And a lot of guys just don't give a damn about cool form factor and pretty design.
So, internetworld7 please stop trying to convince every one to buy a mac...unless you're willing to pay.
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|I would go with linux before ever buying a Mac.
Got ubuntu installed on my laptop, it's a very nice OS (but my wifi won't function)
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|Here's a humorous but enlightening article for you and every other misguided PC nut to chew on:
http://www.maclife.com/a...hut_their_damn_pieholes
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|But can your Linux do this:
http://movies.apple.com/..._20080408_r640-9cie.mov ?
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|Congrats!
Now you have a robust print server.
Run Mac with VMWare Fusion and you can have OSX, Windows (any flavor you chose), Linux, and any other x86 environment you want running concurrently.
And you can b!tch about whichever one or two or three you hate at your leisure.
Oh, and should we mention you have your choice of applications.
Whereas with just Linux...well, we'll give you a few minutes to review the concept of 'applications'... ;-)
With Linux alone you have...a great print server.
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|MobileMe and 3G
Is that the best you can come up with as a list of problems?
I'm disappointed.
The fact is Apple is doing well.
And it certainly makes sense to get a Mac and have your choice of environments - especially if you are running VMWare Fusion.
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|Sure thier doing well financially but theyve still got major issues to fix like 3G.
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|LOL true.
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|Those have got to be some of the lamest reasons Ive read yet. Not even worth your time to read.
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|Hey, if one of your choices is Mac OS, sure. If not, why pay for it?
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|As if there are more prescient reasons for running Windows than 'everyone else is doing it'?
Just read the glowing reviews by Windows users here!
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|LOL. This just proves how horribly misinformed you are Mr. M$ fanboy. In spite of these miniscule problems, Apple's customer satisfaction is FAR higher than any PC rival and I mean FAAAARRRR higher:
http://www.forbes.com/20...e.html?partner=yahootix
Holla back @ ya boy!
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|dvferret are you a parrot? Because parrots repeat what they hear without understanding what they're saying. The numbers of people that these recent issues affect are minor and we know Apple will have a fix sooner rather than later. Here is what the majority of Apple customers REALLY think of Apple:
http://www.forbes.com/20...e.html?partner=yahootix
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|LOL. Sad but so true...
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|Thats for computers, not phones you fool.
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|A robust secure print server. ;)
With a little more work, it could be a rather nice portable web filter.
http://www.untangle.com/
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|well i guess i neglected to clarify, laptop with vista and ubuntu, alas 'applications' are not a problem as both work great for my needs
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|Trolling trolling trolling
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|Damm, this must be a end of the month spewage to meet the Apple quota. Need to collect the apple paycheck.
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|Reality reality reality
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|You miss it, don't you?
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|which microsoft windows product has not been full of bug on launch and why did mircosoft spend so much money trying to get people to upgrade vista and not wait till service pack 1. Window Me was bad most had to reinstall windows 98 and remember the bug that microsoft couldnt fix or almost all programs would have to be patch to work and window 95a which so bad that you had to install version b
i, like most long time windows users did not touch vista until sp1. i have had no real problems other them trying to work out the new networks controls
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|"i, like most long time windows users..."
Ouch! That has got to suck. Are you taking anything for that? If not I recommend a large dose of Macintosh. But don't worry though, you don't need a prescription from your doctor. Just walk into your local Apple pharmacy and ask for a Windows cure. A Mac Genius will be more than happy to cure you. :)
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|I don't think the problem with Vista is of being buggy...the problem to me is that it brings nothing new to the table hence offering no reason whatsoever to upgrade from XP. Microsoft should have just called it Windows XP Second Edition and it would have gone down much more smoothly in people's stomach.
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|"...the problem to me is that it brings nothing new to the table hence offering no reason whatsoever to upgrade from XP."
That was quite the herbally-enhanced comment. Nothing new, you say...
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|A good article on Vista regarding the 'FUD' spread around.
http://www.tweakguides.com/VA_1.html
It shares much the same sentiments that I have.
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|I think MS waited to long to come up with something after the Apple campaign started. I just think Steve Ballmer isn't the man to run MS. I think Bill Gates had him take over because their friends and he didn't want to hurt his feelings. With business though you can't worry about feelings when it comes to friends, thats why they say friends and business don't mix well.
I think MS needs some fresh paint with a new young CEO that knows tech and has an idea where MS and the Windows brand needs to go. I don't think Ballmer has a clue because he's out of his league.
Ballmer is to worried and blined by Google to open up his eyes and see the full picture. The things I think MS should put first is this.
1) Getting a better rep for Vista by adding more things to the next service pack. Maybe if they can add WinFS or something. Get companies to make more driver, maybe even make a commercial about Vista 64 and try and push that since I hear better things about that than Vista 32.
What MS should have done is right when Apple ran their smear campaign, MS should have come back with something of their own. Maybe a similar campaign showing Mac OS' faults (lack of software and games), maybe something like "Vista has tons of games and software, and for Apple to catch up they had to crate Boot Camp so Windows could be run on a Mac. Why get a more expensive Mac to run Windows when you can just get a PC". Something as simple as that may have put a different seed in peoples minds.
2) They should push more for Xbox 360. MS is doing pretty well in the gaming industry and they should keep putting more resources into that. When Sony said the PS3 was going to have bluray MS should have made a 360 with HD-DVD, when EA put in a bid for T2 MS should have put a better one. If MS is smart their already working on their next Xbox and it should come out in the next 2-3 years. They should also work on a Xbox Handheld that works with Xbox live. Also with this I would make Xbox live mobile work on a cellular network GSM or CDMA so kids can play when their on the go. They can go in with AT&T, Verizon or even get a good deal with Sprint.
These are only a couple things I think could be done but since Bellmer is oblivious their not getting done.
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|Vista is the buggiest OS M$ has ever developed. It should still be labeled as Alpha. This thing has so many annoying bugs it's not funny. And not even Jerry Seinfeld can make it funny. In fact, just like Vista, Jerry Seinfeld is annoying and he sucks.
Penguin Power!!!
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|which microsoft windows product has not had full of bug on launch and why did mircosoft spend so much money trying to get people to upgrade vista and not wait till service pack 1. Window Me was bad most had to reinstall windows 98 and remember the bug that microsoft couldnt fix or almost all programs would have to be patch to work and window 95a which so bad that you had to install version b
i, like most long time windows users did not touch vista until sp1. i have had no real problems other them trying to work out the new networks controls
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|"which microsoft windows product has not had full of bug on launch"
Windows 2000 Pro.
And even with SP1 Vista has so many unnecessary bugs, like remembering folder size and remembering network passwords. Trouble launching application from the start menu. And the lists goes on. If does common things don't bother you then Vista is perfect you. But for me it's annoying all hell. In all there are 13 registry hacks on my Vista machine to get the damn thing to run the way I like. And even so I still can find a solution for the remembering of network password. I had to write a couple of .cmd files to put in the startup menu to load my network connections. So like I said in my humble opinion Vista is M$'s buggiest OS ever.
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|Really?
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/...00000121,2076967,00.htm
I'd say that well over 63,000 confirmed bugs in the final shipped release is a lot, wouldn't you?
Sounds like a lot to me.
There's a reason why there were 4 service packs during Windows 2000's lifespan.
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|I'm not really taking about security bugs. There will always be new exploits to patch. I'm talking about bugs that affect day to day operations of Vista. Like problems with shortcuts in the start menu not launching programs. Just basic stuff that should not be a problem in any OS.
But I still say Win2k was M$' the best OS.
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|Here's my take on Vista at the moment, it's ok for us techie people, but i am having the majority of "regular" users tell me they hate it, generally.
Already been hired quite a few times to do XP downgrades, even though i told them i could get their machines to run Vista pretty well, they also are not happy about the overall interface changes or other little annoyances. And when they ask me what i still run, well i have to be honest and say XP (for my main OS - i do have Vista running well on an alternate machine here, and it's just fine)
Basically, Vista can work fine, but i think they generally over-designed this OS for the average joe. With some tweaking though, i have it running great on a pretty weak spare PC. Then again i tweak the hell of of XP also, so i can't really knock Vista for having to do that.
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|is it just me but does anyone else find it strange the lack of a comment in this massive mess from tool?
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|Had better things to do.
Nice to see none of you did. :)
Sure makes me feel better.
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|They never disappoint, do they?
Nor do they exceed expectations...
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|I always enjoy reading PC_Tools comments.
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|Thanks!
...jerk. ;)
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|Vista x64 with SP1 is the best OS out there. Why do people blame Vista if they have old hardware and software? Yes it does require newer hardware. And for those who can't run older software in Vista, try this: right click that program and select 'Run As Administrator'. By default Vista gives administrators standard use privilege, that's why many older applications don't work because they either try to write to Windows, it's sub-folder, program files folder and HKLM or try to run with admin privilege by assuming having admin rights, which wouldn't succeed in Vista unless you have admin rights. This is cool because it will leave viruses almost useless even if you are logged in as administrator. I had many software and games that was not compatible with Vista installed and I managed to run them successfully w/o crashing by doing so. And don't bark and blame Vista if hardware drivers cause Vista to crash or show BSOD, almost all the crashes in Vista are because of drivers which is not Microsoft's fault!!
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|From a computer builder and repair tech point of vue: Vista is crap.
It give me so many headaches, I now charge 50% more to work on PC with Vista than I do for PC with XP. Standard rate for XP reinstall: 2 hours. For Vista: 3 hours.
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|hm, so if i get this right, MS has decided to attempt to not only keep hackers from accessing your hard drive, but you, the computer owner as well? I may be paranoid but that's a bit extreme :)
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|But its purty!
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|I now charge 50% more to work on PC with Vista than I do for PC with XP. Standard rate for XP reinstall: 2 hours. For Vista: 3 hours.
I'll be waiting for your going-out-of-business party!
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|On the flip side, in our shop we have only ever had Vista PCs in for repair due to hardware failure issues, not OS-related problems... the only exception being a boot manager corruption issue (directly related to hard drive problems), which Vista's DVD repair feature took care of effortlessly.
Windows XP still firmly holds the title of Malware Sponge. Vista was an extreme about-face in the right direction from a security stand point compared to their previous offerings (server line not included). On the drivers front, manufacturers have had ample opportunity to make their hardware Vista-compatible in the past 1½ years (longer than that, considering the immense amount of time Vista was in development and testing). Vista contains a massive library of drivers on the DVD, with an equally impressive number of additional drivers available through Windows Update, and still growing... much more than any other OS.
Honestly, from another computer builder and repair tech's point of view, I wouldn't put much faith in your ability to troubleshoot and repair a Vista PC. It sounds like a lack of sufficient knowledge of the OS on your part... no offense intended.
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|Boy! You certainly work like a slug!
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|How about Microsoft spends the $300 million on Windows 7 development. A good product will talk for itself.
Stop throwing already wasted dollars at Vista!
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|*BREAKING NEWS*
Here is undeniable proof that Microsoft is innovative and comes up with it's own ideas:
http://macdailynews.com/...p/weblog/comments/18240/
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|Safari also copied IE by trying to get as many security vulnerabilities as possible during it's tenure on Windows systems.
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|NEWFLASH!
You are an idiot, everyone uses everyone's ideas its how you stay competitive.
MS had user-created apps and games on the Zune before Apple too and didn't charge extra for it either.
MS had system restore before Apple too
Even Mac users don't use Safari
If you weren't such a fanboy you'd realize every company uses each others ideas.
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|We all know you are Steve Jobs gay partner, so don't keep barking. Apple and Macs suck!! It's the Windows OSs dominating the market not that rotten Apple. Just STFU you moron!!
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|Agreed. What about switch user feature? M$ had that feature before Apple, then Apple implemented that feature in their Tiger OS. The same goes with wide screen in Zune which is now present in iPhone 3G and so many other features that they have implemented in crap OS X. As if Apple keep innovating w/o copying or stealing ideas. Anway Apple sucks. Damn Apple fan boys, seems like all the apple fan boys have the same Steve Jobs gayish virus in them :P
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|I mean seriously? really? honestly? Did you 'look' for that? I mean, took time out of your life to search for it...then come on here and post it? really?
You're the reason why I don't own a Mac.
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|lol wow. you are sad. o omg firefox doesnt have that. and what a crappy website you posted to. time it was redone.
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|*laughs*
...and they call *me* a tool....
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|Internetworld7 you're ennoying dude with your MacDailyNews bulls**t...stop making a fool of yourself, seriously.
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|That settles it then...
Internetworld7 is henceforth known as Mac_Tool. :)
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|Yup, UNIX - Sys5 and BSD - didn't have a change user function until almost 20 years before Windows, and Zune is simply taking the market by storm (poor iPod).
It must be nice to have only tried Windows and to think that you have a clue about the much larger world of OSes - especially if you think Windows is the most mature and capable! (But enjoy your absolutely delusional fantasy!)
With your prodigious knowledge of OSes, stick to playing games.
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|"annoying"
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|Yes, you are. :)
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|So because the Zune isn't taking the market by storm its a bad product?
So does that mean Windows is the best since everyone uses it?
The point is no one has original ideas they are all borrowed in one way or another, hell most Linux distros can't decide if they want to be Windows or Mac-Like.
If OSX was able to be installed on any pc more people would use it, the fact remains you are paying $1000 for OSX the hardware is nothing different then any other pc on the market.
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|Yes. Best comment of the month. LOL
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|I prefer Apple fanboy or Steve Job's half brother but Mac_Tool is cool.
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|Is that chick naked in the John Cleese video?
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|I like it that someone is stuffing it back into the face of the stuffy Apple mob... but aside from that, there's no future for Vista except as table filler for yard sales and flea markets.
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|I think Windows new marketing plan is Cuil.
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|A comic endorsing a comical product - makes sense to me.
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|How can a giant coproration with thousands of brilliant software minds (technical architects, engineers, developers, etc.) produce so little as they did with the Vista OS is beyond my comprehension.
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|Scope creep.
Pressure from OEMs to put out a new OS (their biggest nightmare is a company like Dell saying "OK, we're gonna throw the weight of our resources behind Linux, polish a bunch of the Open source stuff out there for consumer and Corporate use and make it viable. We'll justify the loss over the next five years to shareholders by saying that it's an investment in a new market").
Pressure to maintain image that they are still the "900lb gorilla" of the industry.
Need to come up with "a new idea" to show they've "still got it".
Serious "we bit off more than we could chew".
Very poor project management.
Pressure from the entertainment companies.
...and finally:
Being completely out of touch with the consumer customer base (not surprising - their bread and butter is the corporate base but they lost badly there too as no corporate customer will touch Vista).
After Ballmer took control of the company, the tone of the company changed. It's now answerable to shareholders only and no longer interested in growing the PC industry - the existance of that is now taken for granted to a point.
A cheap accountant now runs the premier desktop factory in the world. You NEVER have an Accountant run your business. EVER.
Woe is Us.
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|"OK, we're gonna throw the weight of our resources behind Linux, polish a bunch of the Open source stuff out there for consumer and Corporate use and make it viable."
IBM, the largest software company on the planet (at the time) and largest services company did this. Microsoft apparently shrugged.
Microsoft: Software business model. Moving into services.
Linux: Service business model. (There's nothing else to charge for.)
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|IBM isn't a power in the OEM market. Dell is. Now, Dell would partner with IBM in such an endeavor but they carry FAR more weight as an OEM than IBM does. Remember, the top two are HP and Dell.
IBM is an "also ran".
Also, there's a LOT to charge for if an app is "commercialized" and sold a la OpenOffice. Imagine what would happen if the GIMP was redesigned by someone who actually understood what a user interface was.
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|IBM has three times the market cap of Dell. Give me a break. Nice playin' with ya.
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|IBM has never been an 'also ran.' They were early to the Linux party and have made money from open source from day one. I think you mean with regard to the desktop PC market. IBM was always a business/server/SaaS company anyway. It's dalliance with PCs was never serious since they were more expensive than the early Apple Macs for a while.
And whereas Microsoft is floundering to find a future, IBM's direction is steady and highly profitable (w/o all the lawsuits that MS constantly pays for).
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|Spoken like the desktop jockey you are.
IBM is a "solution provider".
PCs are just a small commoditized component of the overall turnkey solution they provide. ...an increasingly small part.
And as PCs are now commodities (and one that is becoming increasingly marginalized in the enterprise space, where IBM rules, by the use of thin clients like Pano Logic in centrally managed virtualized environments), who cares about your desktop centric view of the world.
The fact is that the new paradigm has already passed you by - you just aren't aware of it...but then, Palmetto Bug, you should be used to that!
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|"Has Microsoft successfully been 'swift-boated?'"
If you mean, "have multiple individuals in a position to know rendered scathing critiques and pointed out the gross exaggerations, evasions, and out-and-out lies of their nemesis", then yeah... Microsoft has been "swift-boated".
If I had wanted a dose of Lib'tard revisionist history, I'd go slumming at the DailyKos.
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|Please, would someone tell me what specific problems they have with Vista. Vista runs fast and efficiently on my computer. I installed Vista X64 with SP1 with no problems and really have no complaints.
I have XP on one computer at work and OSX on my other computer at work. I have to have an XP machine to run Outlook, Encore on OSX simply doesn't work when sharing Tasks and Calendar from a server. OSX works fine otherwise as long as you run Firefox and not Safari as it's useless. I don't do much on the XP machine except run Outlook, Explorer on it isn't as good as Vista Explorer, maybe I need an upgrade.
I don't know what the fuss is all about, Apple has certainly spent hundreds of millions swaying public opinion about OSX.
If you are just going to surf, read email, do word processing and use third party software for photo/video/audio then all three operating systems work about the same. Bundled photo/video/audio is quirky on all the systems.
It doesn't seem that one system is more reliable than the other from a user standpoint. Of course IT hooked me up to shared resources like network printers, servers, as I'm not allowed the passwords.
IMHO
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|"It doesn't seem that one system is more reliable than the other from a user standpoint. "
It's not more reliable, period. Errant drivers can still bring down the OS, despite the hype about moving driver code out of Ring 0. Bugs from Windows 2000 still exist that can bring the UI crashing down if Explorer fails. Done both with monotonous regularity in testing. The UI is MUCH slower. Network access is problematic.
In short, it's broken and certainly no more reliable than its predecessor. IMNSHO, the most reliable (and fast) Windows variant today is XP64.
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|Wrong as usual. Thin clients are more reliable, more secure, feature a lower TCO with a smaller admin overhead.
Your desktop is for teenage gamers.
The paradigm has passed you by.
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|Sure lacavol, here's some concrete data for you: yesterday the small law firm I work for, which is part of a shared suite of 20 legal professionals all sharing a LAN (can I presume this is what one of the IT professionals on this thread calls a "domain environment"?) spent at least $300 on IT consulting to ferret out the reason that my new Dell, loaded with the latest hardware, could not print from MS Word in less than 4 minutes. This is not a joke. The printer stall problem has been with me since switchover to Vista Business, and it comes and goes. When its comes, the smallest document, say a snailmail envelope, less than 100 characters, can take 4-5 minutes to print. This is not a Microsoft-hater's fantasy. This is a huge headache for a legal professional who sometimes has to produce multiple documents in a very short time frame. When I am multi-tasking (scanning old files, for instance) just so that I am not wasting time while waiting for Vista to find my Brother multifunction printer on the network, this is serious trouble for the boyz in Redmond. I was not a serious "Microsoft Hater" until Vista dropped into my work life like a ton of bricks. BTW, the IT professional took three hours to figure out the problem because it is basically a matter of educated guesswork to figure out what Vista might consider a security threat. Bottom line: expensive and utterly exasperating. Oversell products like this, and your company is doomed.
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|Educated guesswork? I think you need new IT if it took them 3 hours...
They could have imaged the machine in less then half of that
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|imaging takes you an hour? :p
I suppose if you include the time it takes to cart the machine from the desk to the IT department...if you don't want to image it at the desk. ;)
Image it if it is production, try to reproduce/test in the lab after.
1st priority is always getting the production machine up and running. This dude's IT department is apparently of the Geek Squad variety (overpaid BK employees).
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|Nah, I meant for that to come out to a much smaller number to prove how asinine his statement sounded :)
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|That HP Seinfeld commercial is exactly the reason I purged commercials out of my life ~8 years ago. It caters to the lowest common denominator of American:
1. Because you are a Celebrity I should use your product.
2. Everything comes down to promotion and crass commercialism.
3. Your movie sucked and tanked at the theaters.
4. HP doesn't even tell us why we should get this POS laptop. Yet people will buy it anyway.
5. Hand trickery/magic effects make people go oooo/ahhh me want.
/me is getting old and disgruntled with this country and how things work.
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|Well said!
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|Its nice looking :P
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|I have to agree and also add, HP is really on the bottom of my list as far as what i would recommend for a PC. In my experience, their overall quality is poor, and their pre-loaded software (hp solutions center >PUKE
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|Didn't Seinfeld did a show about nothing? Yup, that lends credibility.
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|comes to mind the old saying...." you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" vista will never be the OS that it was hyped to be.. try maybe $300 million on research to find out what WE really want in an OS.
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|So what exactly do you want in an OS? I know that Vista is exactly what I'm looking for. A stable fast OS, with a great looking UI, and very secure. Not to mention tons of features, that I have not fully explored yet.
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|A lean but neat looking OS that does not spend a lot of time setting up a file copy instead of actually copying.
Let's see:
-Optional preemptive multitasking usermode
-Option to compile the things I use most into a single kernel file, takes less time to load...
-I liked the OS installer from 2000 and NT4, trim out what I don't want...
-Remote Intall Service was handy, I miss that. Does MS's RIS work for XP or Vista?
...
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|In Vista, RIS will live on in the form of WDS (Windows Deployment Services).
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|I got Vista into my laptop computer (Dell Inspiron 1721) at work. RAM load (with Symantec AV) after logon was 395 MB... and when you have 1GB of installed RAM, you are left with 60% of your RAM available for applications.
Well... I cried long enough to have the OS changed to XP (with local IT and they with Dell). So I got it. :)
Results are shown in the form of RAM usage. XP RAM load after logon: 274 MB (including Symantec AV). 10% more RAM available in exchange.. PLUS, the faster copy/paste process of files between servers and from/to my laptop.
Both OS let me do my work, but one is definitely faster and allows me to load applications (like 2 more, but more).
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|You'll never get a customizable install. It's much more cost effective form a support point of view to have an integrated monolithic install since the number of variations is cut to zero. I've had that discussion with M$ devs and that's the number one reason why it will never ever happen.
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|RAM load (with Symantec AV) after logon was 395 MB... and when you have 1GB of installed RAM, you are left with 60% of your RAM available for applications.
Vista releases RAM as needed by apps. Far better than XP ever did. It's RAM usage idle is after it has loaded into RAM (or prefetched) your most commonly used bits, again, far better than XP ever did.
Both OS let me do my work, but one is definitely faster and allows me to load applications (like 2 more, but more).
With One Gig of ram on a laptop with very likely a shared-RAM video adapter? I'm betting it's XP. ...and it should stay that way.
Vista is great, but not on older hardware.
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|"...A lean but neat looking OS that does not spend a lot of time setting up a file copy instead of actually copying..."
That's so 2007 of you. That issue was fixed last year, with a little thing I like to call Windows Update. Now Vista copy operations are as fast and in some cases even faster than XP.
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|Frankly, I think that most of the people who hate Vista hate it just because it is a product from MicroSoft. Also,because they don't like Bill Gates and big business who monopolize the computer market. Computer Ignoramuses like ME hang on to key phrases when criticizing Vista without really understanding what they are saying like for example: I usually say to my ignorant friends in high school that Vista is "heavy on a computer's resources". huhuhhuh , What does that really mean? I just say it and it makes me look like I know computers. I also like to say that the reboot is very slow, huhuhuhuh. So, What !!! I simply like to say it because I read it somewhere....I also like to say to my ignorant friends and they repeat it to other ignoramuses that UBUNTU is better and it is for free, huhuhhuhuh. Funny and exotic names attract people, just like OBAMA. I guess the problem is not with product but it is a problem of educating ignorant computer illiterates like me and millions and millions who like to hate big business and use any reason why they want to avoid MicroSoft. There is nothing that Microsoft can do about it EXCEPT change its name and promote Vista under another name and that will work I am sure. But of course they will not do it and rather hire comedians to promote ; VISTA huhhuhhuhuhhuh ! ! !
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|I really think this is going to backfire. Seinfeld as a pitchman? Gates and Co must be mad.
Why don't they just get George Costanza, Puff Diddy or even better Kramer? What a waste of money. Jerry with a straight face selling anything, this is a $300 million episode I gotta see.
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|I 2nd that.
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|INSTEAD OF JUST FIXING THE "IMAGE" OF VISTA...
WHY NOT SPEND ALL THAT MONEY ON ACTUALLY FIXING VISTA?
****ing morons...
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|@ Program86:
"The problem is, Microsoft has already tried that approach: concentrating on improving the product, in the face of mounting criticisms -- some real, some contrived."
did you skip that part of the article?
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|Because the problem is between the Keyboard and Chair, not in the OS ;-)
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|Program86 doesn't read. His sole goal in life is to bash MS even when he is wrong. 100% of his posts on this website are anti-MS.
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|He's the token incoherent, Tourette Syndrome, retard of the site. ;)
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|Careful with the "r-word"... you wouldn't want anyone to protest your comment, would you? LOL
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|I suppose the mentally disabled might take offense, but then, I'd never call *them* retards. That'd be mean. :)
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|but they didnt. They didnt even try.
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|so your saying saying the problem is you.
We all agree on that.
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|YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T READ.
Re-read the posts MORON.
BWGHAHAHAHAHAH
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|Coming from the ultimate retarded troll moron, thats quite a destinction. HAHAHAHAHA
Go spout your blind pro MS agennda to people that cant think for themselves. You are doing a pretty good job with half a brain cell to boot!
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|You are the definition of mentally disabled. You are the funniest monkey that can dance through my hoops.
You always do. When I post, you always do a little monkey dance fort all of us. Its hilarious. We always have a good laugh at what a complete idiot you are.
I hope you continue to post so we can be entertained by the ultimate moron.
Dance for us Monkey DANCE! HAHAHAHAHA
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|Program86. You have some serious issues. I think you should take some time off for your own health.
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|Go spout your blind pro MS agennda to people that cant think for themselves.
This to the guy who has posted about many of the mistakes MSFT has made from the guy who in *every* MSFT thread posts along the lines of:
"**** YOU! BWAAHAHAHHHAHHAH!!!"
...
Yeah. I'm the blind fanatic. Sure....
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|You are a sad little man.
The only one who seems to be wildly posting BS around the forum is...you.
Funny that. Your ability to be blind to your own idiocy is astounding.
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|I have used Microsoft products since 1981. I have installed every version of Windows since 1.0, MS Word before Windows, BASIC long before Visual Basic, many of the development tools (including the original OS/2 SDK) and some of their other products such as Xbox. I recently installed Vista Business on a 3.2GHz Prescott with 4GB of RAM, a 1TB SATA drive, and a new ASUS/ATI AH3650 graphics card. The system rated a 4.3 in the Windows Experience Index (4.3 for the CPU, 4.9-5.9 for everything else). With no other software loaded, it took five minutes to boot, four hours to update Service Pack one, and six hours to install Office 2007 (basic). The machine will freeze (even the mouse) when loading something as simple as Windows standalone update, and the task manager shows 721MB of RAM being used when no applications are running (there appear to be many new modules running DRM or authentication). The installation STRONGLY suggests using Sleep mode (remember hibernate?) instead of ever turning it off.
They say that all ambition rises to its level of incompetence, and Windows is now a textbook example. I don’t think Intel will be able to bail them out with a quad or even octal CPU, and certainly 4GB is now the new 640KB. They have been painting over Windows NT for too many times. Someone in Redmond needs to have the balls to do what Steve Jobs has done several times at Apple – eat their own lunch with a new OS. In fact, Microsoft has an OS running in Mountain View that addresses these issues but can’t release it because the APIs are different from Windows and “thousands of developers would complain.” I guess they would rather have millions of users complain and not buy the product. BTW, I am moving back to XP.
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|They actually have several OSes in the wings.
Why they hang onto legacy system compatibility rather than providing, say, a 5 year sunset period to update or move is beyond me.
But all this worry over the next Windows is in large measure moot.
What keeps this issue alive is that so many here are focused on the desktop and games!
Like it or not, due to security, admin overhead and TCO, the model is moving to a centrally managed virtualized environment running thin clients for all but the most demanding applications.
The age of the all in one standalone behemoth OS is dead. And THAT is the BIG challenge for MS.
Its like watching Detroit try to figure out how to repackage the Hummer into a fuel efficient easy to park vehicle.
Enjoy the show...
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|wow, I installed vista ultimate rtm 3/1/07 on a far less specs than your machine and i NEVER had ANY of those problems LOL
Office took 16min. at most to install...
I take it you are exaggerating!? (too much btw)
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|No BS, and I can reproduce it with another clean install. I thought about recording a video and putting it on YouTube, but they can't handle a 20-hour video (the Windows updates took several hours too). Anyway, it is REALLY boring, like watching paint dry.
Another BTW, the ASUS BIOS is up to date, and XP installs/runs effortlessly with the same hardware.
As for your machine, consider yourself lucky. You may have won the lottery too, but I can't live with those odds. No slight intended, Microsoft has done a lot to get 80 million lines of code to work and have so much backward compatibility. At some point, they just gotta let go and move on. They taught IBM that lesson, and you would think they could remember it. Maybe it is just the price of success.
You know how God created the universe in just six days? He didn't have an installed base.
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|No problems here either - we reproduced it (no problems) several times this past week. I do agree, you have to "let go and move on" (or let someone else do the installs).
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|I call shenanigans.
My specs: 4600+, 2GB, 512MB ATi 2900.
CPU 3 to 28% idling with Firefox open. RAM @30%, holding steady.
System rates a 5.9 across the board except the CPU, which rates at 5.0. Vista absolutely flies on this system (even with the sidebar and 4 gadgets...no services disabled)
Methinks you're full of Bull or there is something seriously wrong with your system.
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|There must be something seriously wrong with your hardware.
Vista Ultimate 64-bit
4.8 - Athlon 64 X2 3800
4.9 - 2 GB DDR PC3200
5.9 - 2x 150 GB WD Raptor (RAID 0)
5.9 - EVGA GeForce 7950GT 512 MB
SP1 took approximately 30 minutes to install... Office 2007 Enterprise approximately 4 minutes.
Try installing the drivers for your hardware, too. :)
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|The mojave experiment was such a joke. There was no control and all the users were shown were videos. Instead of admitting that Vista is unstable and has half the performance of Windows XP, they launch misleading ad campaigns.
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|since sp1, ive only seen leaps of improvment in performance over XP.
seriously, as much as i LOVE XP, i would never go back to it. Vista Ultimate 4 me
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|The issue with Vista is not just a perception problem. There are significant design flaws that make it unbearable to use in a domain environment; not to mention the mountain of compatibility issues. You can't use a single piece of older software without patches or buying a new software package; some of them costing hundreds to thousands of dollars. Now why on earth would I do that when XP works fine and has since SP2 came out in 2003! And you know what? - All my software works with it, even software that I used to install on old DOS machines.
And if you think I'm joking about using it in a domain; try it. It's nearly impossible to make Vista Business; the OS that's supposed to do nothing but domain-related functions; work in a domain environment. It's such an incredible hassle that my company just calls the PC vendor and gets the built-in "downgrade" to XP professional that is included with the Vista Business and Ultimate license. It's easier to reload the machine from scratch or pay Dell the extra $50 to get XP on there than it is to spend hours upon hours trying to get Vista to work.
Not to mention how difficult it has become to do soemthing as simple as windows updates.
Not to mention the massive amount of resources Vista hogs. And it seems no matter how many resources you have available, Vista still runs slow! I have seen quad-core machines with 4 GB of memory and 8800GTX video cards run Vista slower than a Celeron 1.3GHz with 512 MB of memory and an integrated video card run windows XP. Why is it so necessary to make Vista so incredibly heavy?
So now to "improve" the image of their dead-on-arrival OS; they hire an unfunny, unintelligent elitist. Way to blunder; Microsoft!
Here's some common sense thinking for the Microsoft execs who have their heads shoved up their rear ends: If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. Roll-back Vista, issue an apology for releasing a pile of horse manure as an OS and offer free windows XP discs/licenses to every Vista User. If they had any idea how much damage they caused themselves and their consumers with Vista, they would never have released it. The US military still hasn't switched over almost 2 years after its release because they consider it "unreliable."
Sorry, Gr3g, I really think you're deluded if you think that Vista is faster than XP. And your idea to just "buy a new computer" if it doesn't run well with Vista is the same crap Microsoft has been shoving down our throats for 2 years now. It just doesn't fly with middle-class Americans who work hard and still can barely afford gas to get to and from work.
And Hollywood_; I'm an educated IT professional and I still think Vista is just as bad or worse than WindowsME. So; no, the problem is not people being stupid. The problem is that Microsoft wanted a new cash cow and didn't bother checking their work and releasing a quality product.
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|Microsoft's biggest problem was to fudge minimum hardware requirements for Vista. Unfortunately, Vista only runs as well as the weakest link in your hardware chain. If any one of the components are weak - CPU, video card, hard drive, or RAM, you can bet that performance will suffer. With no real weak point in my hardware chain, I'm scoring a 5.7. Vista is indeed faster than XP at this level. Vista was designed for bleeding edge hardware - Microsoft should have been upfront about this from the beginning.
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|Vista at home, XP at work - no issues at either and apps do load faster on Vista but the hardware is better too.
Difficult to do windows updates? lol..yeah, ok.
Vista/WindowsME - ridiculous remark. Not everyone has problems with Vista, so maybe stupidity does have something to do with it.
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|You can't use a single piece of older software without patches or buying a new software package;
More generalized BS? Al;most *all* XP software works fine under Vista except for the most complex programming or graphics suites, and hacked, homebrewed crap.
And if you think I'm joking about using it in a domain; try it. It's nearly impossible to make Vista Business; the OS that's supposed to do nothing but domain-related functions; work in a domain environment.
More pure BS. Got a Dell D630 from Dell last week with Vista Business on it. Ran our Domain joiner utility and it was up and running on our domain in under 5 minutes from first boot.
Not to mention how difficult it has become to do soemthing as simple as windows updates.
Oh, please do. You're batting a thousand so far. Is clicking the "windows update" icon too much for you?
Not to mention the massive amount of resources Vista hogs. And it seems no matter how many resources you have available, Vista still runs slow! I have seen quad-core machines with 4 GB of memory and 8800GTX video cards run Vista slower than a Celeron 1.3GHz with 512 MB of memory and an integrated video card run windows XP.
Yay! More unsubstantiated BS with *plenty* of contradicting benchmarks to go against it. You're so full of crap you just might explode...and it gets even better!
I'm an educated IT professional
ROFLMAO! Now *that's* funny s***!
Keep it coming, you're a real peach!
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|Fudged the requirements? They made a crooked business decision with Intel so that Intel could push those crappy IGPs out the door and meet quarterly profits.
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|"And if you think I'm joking about using it in a domain; try it. It's nearly impossible to make Vista Business; the OS that's supposed to do nothing but domain-related functions; work in a domain environment."
I would like to, but it would be impossible, as I cannot accurately emulate your level of inexperience with domain-related functions with Vista.
Both Vista Business and Ultimate join a Windows Server 2003 domain flawlessly every time I have needed to. To add insult to injury, once on the domain, Windows XP Professional running in Virtual PC 2007 on a Vista Ultimate host joined the domain as well.
It sounds like it may be a DNS-related issue in your case.
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|Perhaps the fact that Seinfeld has been a longtime Mac enthusiast will silence this $300M ad blitz with the cosmic belly laugh it deserves. More to point, I have used extensively both XP and Vista in a legal office environment, and XP never gave me anything like the problems Vista makes a daily headache. It is a hopeless dog of a product, and no amount of soft pedaling by Beta News, Jerry Seinfeld or professional flim-flammers like Balmer is going to change that ugly reality.
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|Its no secret, that Vista requires more CPU, and Graphics power for its new features. Was the hardware you were using up to the task. No one case expect Vista to run well on a computer from 2005 anymore than you can expect XP to run well on a computer from 1998.
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|I 2nd that.
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|I'll take that challenge.
Vista on a 2Ghz dual core Athlon with 2GB
vs
XP on 1Ghz, 1GB (running from IDE to CF drive.)
The fore is not comfortable to use out of box.
The later is still sold. We use them in the industrial world to control large manufacturing equipment.
Doing my best to be objective, I installed Vista in several trials.
At the time Vista was launched, the first trial left me and my partner unproductive due to system defects.
Some patches later, the second, six months later left us feeling unhappy because, sise-by-side, Vista was still slower.
I'm on the fifth trial now.
It has taken a large effort to trim out the fat using vLite but, I think Vista is at a point where stability, with all available patching, is nearly as stable as XPSP2. I'll guess that, even if the left hand usually does not tell the right in MS, they also know this and are moving on to work on the world's perception.
As for myself, actual hard numbers:
HDTune free edition:
Vista: 61.1MB/sec
XP: 65MB/sec
Call of Duty 4:
Vista and XP: 125FPS solid. The Aug2008 DX version is good but under Vista, X-Fire game coms were not stable in connection, exact same binary is fine under XP.
The last major issue I had before was heat:
My hottest machine - a Intel Q9450 with a Radeon 4870 does not currently have a major increase in temp with Aero at idle. I'll be trying the whole thing on an equivilent Phenom rig in the morning.
All that to say, I'm not seeking out Vista to use in exclusion of XP but, at this point, my business, which depends on Win32 as the main platform in the industrial software sector, will not be hurt by it.
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|I've heard enough from the Windows haters, Why don't you try making a logical arguement, based on engineering facts. As a long time Vista user, and a highly technical user, I love Vista, and I'm tired of these baseless claims, that do not translate into reality. Vista is a fast, stable and secure OS. XP had the same complaints when it came out, and that passed. Vista will enjoy the same success. Despite the false claims, Vista is the fastest growing OS ever.
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|I think the point isn't that Vista sucks, it's that it fails to meet expectations -- it disappoints. And while I see merit in Vista and some advantages, the word 'some' should be 'nothing but'.
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|Starbuck888, OK fair enough. Here is a copy of a blog of mine doing just that from my myspace site.
Well these past 3 weeks I decided to give Windows Vista a try. I mean after all the Micro$oft hype you might think it's the greatest thing since indoor plumbing or possibly the wheel. Sadly however it's all hype and I was thoroughly disappointed. Before I get into how bad it operated lets start with the confusion factor. At last count (and I admit I may have missed something here) I make it out to be 20 different versions of Vista; Ultimate, Home Premium, Home Basic, Business, and Enterprise. Well you may say; Barney, that's only 5 versions, what gives? Well there are also the "upgrade" versions that you can buy slightly cheaper if you already have a compatible older version of Windows, bringing us up 10 versions. We can now double that to 20 versions when we remember that there are the 64 bit versions for the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs. CONFUSED YET??????? I thought so. And now to confuse you even more… What happens if you purchase an upgrade version to upgrade from Windows XP and your hard drive dies? Do you have to reinstall Windows XP first and then repeat the upgrade? Even M$ is unclear on the answer to that.
OK, on to the performance. I decided to do a clean install on my secondary PC. Despite being my secondary PC it's no slouch. AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 1 GB RAM, Asus A8N Motherboard less than 1 year old, new Seagate 80 Gig SATA hard drive and my trusty ATI All-In-Wonder Rage 128 Pro video card. The latter I've had for years and it has served me well and I'm not replacing it. It has a built in TV tuner and in the past I've seen the PC freeze while the video card remained working displaying the TV as if nothing was wrong. Anyhow….I decided to partition my hard drive into 2 partitions and install the 32 bit version on 1 partition and the 64 bit version on the other. Both installs went smoothly no complaints there. After taking 5-10 minutes getting used to the new interface (which looks a lot like Mac OSX) and dealing with it's constant nagging every time I tried to change a setting, I proceeded to get all relevant updates and see how well performed. This was an almost complete disappointment. Surfing the web was no problem, nor was playing an Mp3. But that's no much of a challenge for PC. After all an I pod can play a mp3 and that doesn't have anywhere near the processing power of a desktop PC. The next test was playing a video. I decided to keep this simple and used a few of my MST3K episodes I downloaded nearly 7 years ago. I did this because they used Microsoft's MPEG4-V2 codec and didn't rely upon third party software which could unfairly skew the results. The results were horrible. This applies to both the 32 bit and 64 bit versions. The video seemed to play slowly and constantly skipped and jerked. This I found odd because they played just fine on every other operating system I've ever used going back to Windows 98. And they played fine on all those operating systems even while I was doing other things such as running file sharing programs and surfing the web. And, they did this all on an AMD Athlon 900Mhz machine 7 years ago. Upon starting the task manager I noticed that windows media player was using 99% of the CPU. Odd that that should be. After all none of the other Windows versions needed that much brain power to play a simple video. Upon further investigation I found that MS had neglected to include Rage 128 drivers bundled with Vista and that Vista was using a generic driver. Surely this must be the problem I thought. Then I remembered that my motherboard came with a built in graphics card which was less than a year old. So I took out my trust old ATI card and used the built in S3 (I forget the exact chip type) graphics chip, installed the necessary drivers and rebooted to try again. Well much to my surprise nothing had changed. The video was still jerky and Windows Media Player still used all of the CPU. Once more I decided to test an even simpler video, a music video I downloaded years ago. Encoded in MPEG-1, 320x240 resolution. While this played smoothly for the most part, it still took all of the CPU to do it. The same video playing under Windows 2000 uses only 8% of the CPU max.
Enough of this technical crap, lets cut to the chase. Is there a good reason for me to upgrade to Windows Vista? NO!!!!!!!!!! Do I recommend others upgrade? NO!!!!!!!!!
Should Vista even be considered an upgrade? Well that's debatable. I take an upgrade to be an improvement in some significant way. Perhaps adding some new and useful features not previously available, or something that allows you do more than previously possible with what you have not LESS. Of course a new PC that comes with Vista forced upon it will work OK, but remember it's brand new with brand new hardware. Any operating system operating on new hardware will work fast. The only real upgrade on a Windows Vista system here is the hardware. Vista requires 512MB memory in order to operate (5 times the memory required of Windows XP) and prefers a video card of 256MB memory (enough memory to run 2 entire Windows XP installations). As to new features not previously available, any that there are minor at best. I really don't see much not available in XP. The only significant (and I admit I don't have a real way to test this) is in security. But remember Vista is new, lets see how secure it is once it becomes more prevalent and the hackers get more experience. Of course Linux, BeOS, all Mac OS's , the old Amiga OS are more secure without requiring the aforementioned hardware.
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|You expect people to read all this bud?
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|wayy longer than the article LOL
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|quote from Barney: "CONFUSED YET???????"
ummm.. NO! not a bit lol
about your whole upgrade topic and versions, ... only an idiot will pay for "upgrade, or retail".. get OLM version!!!
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|ROFLMAO!!
3200+, 1GB of RAM, and a RAGE 128?
Are you f-ing kidding me?
//Hey, guys, let's throw together a system we *know* vista won't like, and then tell everybody how much it sucks and why it's all Vista's fault!
Pure comic genius.
If you're going to use a PC like that, you should be running Windows 2000. Seriously. If you want to enter the new Century, upgrading the system hardware might be a good start.
My specs: 4600+, 2GB, 512MB Video Card.
CPU 3 to 28% idling with Firefox open. RAM @30%, holding steady. Boots in 18 seconds (to a usable desktop), and firefox loads almost instantly.
...and that's with the sidebar and 4 gadgets running.
*laughing*
You guys slay me...
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|Confused? No... I actually know simple arithmetic.
At least you admit that you may have missed something, so you should not be too surprised when I send a big "Ya think?" your way.
By the way... a simple link to your simple blog would have sufficed.
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|i don't use either linux nor mac, only windows, but i don't want to upgrade to vista, nor do i find any need to do so.
damn, the vista is having serious weight problem, too slow to operate, it is dreadful.
ye, you can upgrade the momory, the cpu, the hard disk, the graphic card, etc. but you might want to upgrade your bank account first
Hey, Micro$oft, why not work on a new OS and keep churing out XP SP4 and SP5 for a while at the same time?
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|ummm dude, minimum wage has gone up!
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|As for Windows 7 I wouldn't expect much. M$ has already screwed it up. Lets see how. The current line of M$ operating systems has been based on Windows NT, which stood for new technology. The first release was NT 3.51. An odd place to start, but who cares. Next came Windows NT 4, a strange OS but I still have clients that use it. Instead of continuing the numbers game M$ released NT 5 as Windows 2000, which in my eyes is probably their best. NT 6 is of course Windows XP, making Windows Vista NT 7, (Windows 7), and the next release of Windows (the upcomming Windows 7) actually Windows 8. Gee Macs are looking better and better right about now.
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|One note is your number is off. Vista is version 6.0.6001 SP1 . It was not a full version upgrade over XP at least according to version numbering.
I believe the answer is for MS to start from scratch but they apparently don't wish to do that, but its the legacy support that is killing them.
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|"NT 6 is of course Windows XP"
Of course, how blind we've all been...
This must be some of that "fuzzy math".
http://en.wikipedia.org/...ws#Timeline_of_releases
Gee, a calculator is looking better and better right now. You may want to start off with an abacus, though. Baby steps...
The first version of Windows NT was 3.1, not 3.51. Not an odd place to start, as it picked up where Windows for Workgroups left off.
"Gee Macs are looking better and better right about now."
Of course they are... they were made with people like yourself in mind. Have fun counting their OS versions.
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|Actually, Vista (6.0) was a major version upgrade over Windows XP (5.1 for 32-bit, 5.2 for 64-bit). XP was a minor version upgrade over Windows 2000 (5.0), as it inherited much of the underlying code base... in much the same way that 98 (4.1) was a minor upgrade over 95 (4.0). Vista is very different under the hood from XP.
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|Why doesn't MS just listen to people - why do they assume the people are ignorant saps that do not know what they want or do not want.
Vista is a nag, it is dumbed down, it is trying to be MAC, it is a hog, it demands hardware that is not within everyone's budget and it is illogical. What people expect to have - has been removed. The rule of thumb is: do not take away - value add to instead. When you take away - you may not think what you took is important, yet to others it is.
The security nagging (even after it is disabled it flashes warnings), the various versions that are over priced, the dumbing down and NOW - assuming that people do not think for themselves is what is wrong with the MS product line. They are catering to their own company wants/needs and not the masses they sell to. Ballmer should know better - he is on some success talk circuits that tell others to not do what he himself is doing.
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|Actually, they did listen to the user, and they did make a product that addresses their concerns. Users wanted a product that was more secure. Check Vista is 60% less likely to be infected. IT wanted a system that was more manageable. Check, Vista has advanced group policy object that give greater management in a domain. Vista is more stable, it has a great instant search feature. User access control can pop alot on a new computer, but once you stop installing software, it wont bother you, UNLESS malware is trying to alter the OS. Microsoft spent over $4 Billion on Vista developement, and right now is the only OS gaining market share. Don't believe me, just see the facts here:
http://marketshare.hitsl...om/report.aspx?qprid=11
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|You know - it might have been a smart move for Microsoft to have deployed Vista commercially to IT people who wanted these features first -- then waited on the home release so that the IT users could evangelize these improvements before it rolled onto home computers.
Most users do not understand why viruses exist in the first place.
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|Well, looking at the chart you linked to, its not the only one gaining.
It seems that the overall Windows marketshare has shrunk slightly in the last year, with defectors coming to Vista at the expense of XP and 2000 (90.4% total in Sept. 2007 vs. 89.6% in July 2008).
But why the MacOS is broken into two categories is just ridiculous (it's a bit like breaking Windows into Intel and AMD categories), and looking at them together, you can see some slight growth (6.63% in 2007 vs. 7.75% in 2008). In fact, if you do track Mac Intel as an independent entity, the percentage gain is somewhere along the lines of a 60%. Keep in mind that the Mac share of sales is now estimated to be about 8%, with Windows making up nearly 100% of the remaining.
Additionally, Linux is steadily increasing every nearly every month with 67% overall growth during the period.
Your claim that Vista is the only OS gaining marketshare is therefor thoroughly debased by the very link you choose to show your point.
QED.
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|But lets not forget these facts. Taken from an informationweek.com article. http://www.informationwe...tml?articleID=207601217
"Windows Vista More Vulnerable To Malware Than Windows 2000
Vista let 639 threats per thousand computers through, compared with 586 for Windows 2000, 478 for Windows 2003, and 1,021 for Windows XP, security vendor PC Tools said. "
Oh and regarding the part about Vista gaining market share. It's doing so at the expense fo Windows XP and that is because M$ has been forcing it on people through OEMs. Now, even if you want, you can't buy a windows XP machine form any of the OEMs such as Dell, HP, etc.. Ahh the joys of being a monopoly. Come on Starbuck888 if you like Vista that's OK. We each have our preferences. What best serves your needs only you can decide, but trying to say that most of these posters here have it wrong is ludicrous. I do IT work and no one I've ever met or work for has said that they like Vista. And many jobs lately have been people demanding I get Vista off the machine and put XP on.
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|Leave it to a VP of product strategy to give us "facts" from data that he conveniently does not have available.
It's his job to scare others into thinking their product is necessary. It's in their best interest. Most ISVs base their entire business model around relying on the insecurity of Microsoft's products. That's why so many cried "foul" when Microsoft announced Kernel Patch Protection for Vista.
"Oh no! How will we sell our security products now?"
That's the contention of security vendor PC Tools Software, which has a financial interest in the vulnerability of Microsoft's software.
I guess the editor of that article felt that it needed to be mentioned, too.
Oh well... it's probably the way it should be. The whole system as we know it might actually collapse if Microsoft finally had their way and implemented native security features in Windows that rivaled those found in most Linux distributions.
As it stands, you can probably thank just about any ISV for the current state of security in Microsoft's products. They stand to lose millions if Microsoft finally gets its act together, and you can bet there's a lot of lobbying going on behind the scenes to ensure that it's as far down the road as possible.
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|If Microsoft really wants to personify Vista perhaps they should hire Mister Hankey.
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|Dam. I really wish they would invest that $300 million in improving Vista. They could make it run more efficiently and get rid of the pop-up questions. Then, they could release it as Windows 7 and people would be back to using it again. Sometimes I think they just don't get it. Well, maybe this marketing campaign will work, but maybe not. We'll see.
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|charles, do me a favor go to "control panel, user accounts" and disable the pop-up (uac)questions that you are referring to ok? yes, you could of done this long ago :-) goodluck!
thanks bud
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|"disable the pop-up (uac)questions"
and the most efficient way to do that is to not buy / upgrade to Vista in the first place.
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|My biggest issues with Vista are bloat, slow boot an annoying interface, and a seeming devotion to eye candy.
I am staying with XP for the moment. I'll probably eventually move to Linux since MSft seems unwilling to get honest about it's problems.
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|I've had the opposite experience. Vista boots faster for me than XP and I felt that the eye candy was mediocre from day one.
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|I agree that my Vista boots faster than XP ever did, but I am on a newer machine as well so that may help. I think its those that choose the upgrade path over a new PC, generally have more issues with Vista.
Heck even my Ubuntu loads slower than Vista (though I think that's partly due to an error in my grub I haven't fixed yet)
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|What they need is for Cleese to make the equivalent of his spectacular management training films - although it would be hard to see how he could do anything but make Vista look even sillier than it does now.
Seinfield...good luck. He not only isn't funny, he's one of the most arrogant elitist jerks about - and his 'humor' comes of that way.
And anyone who actually thought his show was the funniest comedy ever done, should already think Vista is the greatest OS ever developed.
Come to think of it, while he is like Jobs personified, it does compliment Vista perfectly.
I can see it now, Seinfield issues lofty commands and calls to George and Cramer who are want to figure out issues of contention and memory locations. A fun time is sure to be had by all...with the usual calamities which befall both Cramer and George - complete with viruses like Neumann and the soup Nazi and the usual system failures. ...And we will simply ignore the ice queen Julia Dreyfuss who lacks any kind of feminine qualities - as she has always been far to obnoxious - even for Windows.
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|"...he's one of the most arrogant elitist jerks about - and his 'humor' comes of that way."
Feeling threatened by his resurgence? ;)
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|I've read the following paragraph from the article several times and I still don't know what it means. Are some words missing?
"A retired Madison Avenue ad executive told one of us 30 years ago, as advice for how to write for the public, that once you plant a seed of doubt in the reader's mind as to whether something you yourself are doing, the reader will inevitably come to believe it."
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|Vista's image problem and Microsoft's place in the public conciousness (right down there with Congress and Wal Mart) will not be solved by Jerry Seinfeld, whose increasing distance from the front lines of culture will only remind people of the increasing distance between good design and Windows.
Instead of developing better and better operating systems, Microsoft spent their first decade making behind-the-scenes deals with computer manufacturers which guaranteed that their mediocre product was stuffed up the nose of any business buying a computer. People learned Windows at work and didn't want to s*** systems when they finally got a computer at home.
At the same time Gates was twisting arms so his system was nearly universal, Microsoft engineers learned to sit with their arms folded and blame the users for any failure to communicate. User manuals are doorstops or landfill. Millions and millions of people use Word and Excel all day, totally blind to the many other things might be doing on a more intuitive and better designed system.
So Seinfeld is appropriate. The whole Microsoft story is a B movie.
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|Vista is the best OS available ATM. Yes, it's even better than OSX. Problems at release? Yep, it had many. Problems now? Not really. Your PC can't run Vista effectively? Build/buy a new one and bathe in the glory of Aero. Server 2008 AD domain? Yep, Vista is faster than XP and more stable in business environments. - Love, Greg (10 years in industry, long-time MCSE, and Windows user since 3.11.)
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|Did you really just say "Bathe in the glory of Aero?". Come on. Aero is ugly in my books, and I find it a little ridiculous that Microsoft could not have had a team devoted to developing a few different interfaces so that Vista would appeal to a wider variety of people. Most people do not like Aero as they like Aqua.
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|finally, a negative type comment with merit!
good job!
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|agreed.
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|Vista's image problem is due to ignorance and stupidity of the masses and nothing else.
Do you know that 95% of the country can't answer twenty simple math, science, and history questions? Sad, pathetic insects.
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|Hopefully the mess is not TOO BIG for Seinfeld
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|After watching that John Cleese commercial, I want one, if only just to see if I can get Linux to run on it.
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|I'm a developer and primarily a Mac user, but I have to test on Windows because most of our users are on Windows. I find Vista to be slow and cumbersome - it doesn't crash, but there are lots of minor problems and it's a pain to use. To me, Starbuck888's flaming of Mac OS X seems a bit silly.
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|I'm just calling it how I see. I've been building systems for twenty years, and have not been satisfied with products from Cupertino.
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|Least you admit it doesn't crash unlike these other fools on the forum who probably download porn all day long.
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|Probably because you can't build them.
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|when you get good like me, you can download pr0n all day long w/ out a single hicup LOL
proud to say have not had a single virus/spyware/etc. in over 3 years :-)
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|Too bad he's passed on, Rodney Dangerfield would have made a good public face - I can't get no respect. It gets no respect because it doesn't deserve it. I agree Windows was in need of a serious security overhaul, but what they gave us is nonsense. Halting the entire OS until you approve something. What brain trust came up with that idea ? The graphic overhaul was nice, but overdone. Who wants a Broadway production every time you copy a file ? Just copy it, I don't need all that glitter and flash. What's with the multiple versions ? Total confusion. My own experience with it proved it to be slow and clunky, even on a dual core laptop packed with memory. I moved back to XP so I could actually be productive.
Having been both a PC and MAC user for many years - both have their good points and bad points, but now I use a Mac full time.
It just works.
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|That is right on point.
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|the broadway thing was funny i admit, but unfortunately your laptop must of been a dell or bestbuy purchase.
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|Now Dangerfield...that would have been classic. ;)
Halting the entire OS until you approve something. What brain trust came up with that idea ?
Your solution? (I know, just let the viruses in, right?) Every OS does this to some degree now.
The rest is the same tired BS we hear from all MSFT trolls. The least you guys could do is *try* to be creative.
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|I think Vista is awesome. I've been using Microsoft products for years, and really never had much of a problem with them.
I also used Linux in the past and I liked that OS a lot, was pretty cool. The problem is I'm a gamer, too, and just couldn't get the games for Linux that I wanted to play, and had issues with drivers (although I hear that's a ton better now).
I also like Apple, I just don't want to spend an extra $500+ for a machine that pretty much does the same stuff I can do on Windows. But I do love the Mac OSX, it's really nice.
All this hatred for one product or another is stupid, just use what you like, who cares who's advertising what. Use what you enjoy, leave others alone with what they like.
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|I'm no MS fanboy but Vista hasn't given me any trouble in a year and a half on three machines.
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|They can hire Harry Potter and all the wizadring community, including crafty Dumbledore, still Vista will remain the most annoying, dreadful piece of software ever written. Quite a disgrace, really!
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|So go home and cry Sophia.
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|Are you talking from your own experience or borrowed from a mac user? i am using vista since its inception and didn't find anything disgraceful about it. Then again, what do i know i use it only 10 hours a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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|i think your funny sounding name could be more of a disgrace :-) J/k!! i'm not that mean
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|lol
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|I used Microsoft since DOS was cutting teeth. I sat thru the horror of 3.0. I avoided ME and advised anyone silly enough to buy it NOT to come to me for any fixes. Vista? My new Ubuntu is working just fine on my new computer. This laptop which came with Vista installed? XP runs like a breeze. So we lost all the preinstalled Goodies. At least a game of solitaire doesn't take 20 minutes for just the cards to flip. It was pretty. Slow as 3.0 but pretty. Jerry whats his face? Who is he? And what does he know about computers? Now if they got a scientist who builds them, I might have looked twice. An actor? Didn't we have one of them as president too? And look where we are now. The computer after this? Will be Linux of some form now that I have started to use it.
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|F-word no. F-word Vista. I'm sticking to Windows 98.
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|Windows 98? Please tell me you're joking.
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|Let's see, Microsoft is tapping a phenomenon of the 90s to promote its OS of the 90s. How hip is that?
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|Not accurate. Windows 98 had a 16 bit kernel, which has nothing in common with the new 32bit and 64 bit kernels that were rewritten for Vista. Vista is a very modern operating system.
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|There are significant improvements. MS just doesn't talk about those and shows no sign of wising up. It simply hasn't occurred to them to explain the benefits of Vista beyond the eye candy.
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|What are you talking about? their still running the NT kernel, only now with more bloat. I'm waiting for Windows 7 (allegedly coming out next year). I saw an MIT speech where the lead developer was showing off Windows Lite, where they stripped out all the bloat and basically started with a new kernel from scratch.
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|Supposed to come out first half of 2010. Betas are supposed to be sometime next year I think.
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|What are you talking about? their still running the NT kernel
*yawn*
Vista started with the Server 2k3 code which was a complete rewrite. It is now using the 2k8 server core, which is a modified 2k3 core.
Vista != NT. At all.
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|With the exception of the BS about the Swift-Boating of John Kerry...it was a good story.
Telling the truth about John Kerry is what was done, not "made-up reasons" as the authors suggest.
Putting politics in the story just makes me wonder which "side" the authors would take if Apple was a Republican owned venture and Microsoft a Democrat venture.
Leave out the politics next time and stick to what you know. It obviously ISN'T politics.
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|Actually that entire negative ad about Kerry was discredited later on, but by then it was too late.
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|Just like the "no WMDs" in Iraq theory was discredited? For every discredit in politics there is a larger and opposite reaction. Fact is, in both cases, if it were still reported in the news it would forever be disputed because neither side will agree even if Hell freezes over.
...seriously though, it doesn't matter. Politics should not be brought into betanews. There's already enough partisanship going on here.
(EDIT: Hmm...is partisanship even a word?)
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|Oh noes, the world does not agree with me"
A writer has no obligation to be mindful of your oh so delicate sensibilities. So try and wear your big girl panties when in public.
Thanks.
To stay on topic, As a gamer Vista is a horrible OS which is why my gaming Box has XP. My Laptop has Vista and seems stable enough for all other types of software.
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|There were no WMDs in Iraq. That has been proven to be a fact. The source the CIA used has been shown to be a liar.
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|Saddam killed over 3000 Kurds with chemical weapons, not to mention using them during the Iran/Iraq war.
Saddam CLAIMED to have WMDs and threatened to use them... and like the hoodlum that pokes his finger in his coat pocket and confronts a cop with his "gun", he got what he deserved.
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|wah wah Vista sucks wah wah. lets all sing the wah wah song.
Vista is fine people. Doesn't crash. Stop running s***ty software, stop downloading porn with malware attached to it. And stop having the same webcam and printer attached to your PC for over five years.
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|Now, now, don't tell us about your bad habits.....
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|I agree I am running Vista x64, and by no means an average computer user. I have no problems at all. I use Ubuntu to, and still fairly new to it all so it's not a primary OS for me yet. I still see not reason to leave Vista for Ubuntu.
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|LMAO.... PERFECT!!!
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|Vista was asked how it felt about the upcoming Seinfeld ads. At this time, the OS is still "not responding."
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|How about at the Olympics opening ceremonies when at the end they got a big BSOD on the large screen. [smiles]
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|Heh heh!
Good one ogman!
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|really?? i dont watch TV, but i def want to see this! youtube?
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|That's because it was China and it was probabaly an old pirated version of windows ME
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|lol thats exactly what I was thinking.
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|Hmm, I apparently missed that. I need to watch that again...
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|I have been a windows user since win95 up until it was time for me to buy a new computer which was in November 2007. I bought a MacBook Pro after I had vista installed on my PC. Vista was a major disappointment from the get-go for me. I assure you, marketing did not play a roll in my purchase. I think apple's advertisements are overdone and phony. I chose apple because I was sick of worrying about my computer crashing; best decision of my life. If Jerry Seinfeld is Microsoft's Darth Maul then Steve Jobs is Obi-won Kenobi.
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|I've support Vista systems in a business environment. The only condition, I have found that could crash Vista, is malfunctioning hardware. That crash any OS, linux, mac, you name it. The fear of crashing is not a valid excuse to migrate to an extremely limited OS, with marginal hardware support, that only runs about 10% of software ever developed, and yet costs far more than a comparable PC
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|Once again your full of BS. I have Vista installed on three of my computers at home and haven't had any major problems. Why was it such a disappointment? Probably because you didn't really even try it out.
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|We are seeing the insights here come to fruition:
Windows DRM is the 'longest suicide note in history'
http://www.theregister.c...7/windows_drm_monstered/
Also, owning and supporting both pc and mac, I can tell you that for similar hardware, Macs are not anywhere near twice as expensive as PCs. And when you factor in support costs, PCs are MUCH more expensive.
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|You, sir, are an idiot.
Vista does not contain *any* DRM other than support for ICT (HDCP) and various other methods of support for playback of protected content.
None of it is loaded prior to being requested by the third party program doing the playback.
This has been stated previously, I am just waiting for that idiot to post about Palladium again so I can once again remind him that it doesn't even exist yet.
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|As long as the caveat "NOT COMPATIBLE WITH WINDOWS VISTA" keeps appearing on software I am considering using, it doesn't matter what Seinfeld -- or anyone else -- says. Do they think we're stooopid?
www.KeysThatPlease.Net
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|By far, the vast majority of software written for XP will work on Vista, with no problems, as long as they meet security standards in programming that were put in place over 5 years ago.
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|Maybe you should stop using your outdated 16 bit software.
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|2nd that.
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|Sometimes you don't have a choice in the matter when considering new software. As a medical transcriptionist, I don't have a lot of options available to me when it comes to software for medical transcription. Think of all the angles when you post a comment.
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|See above.
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|I have been a windows user since win95 up until it was time for me to buy a new computer which was in November 2007. I bought a MacBook Pro after I had vista installed on my PC. Vista was a major disappointment from the get-go for me. I assure you, marketing did not play a roll in my purchase. I think apple's advertisements are overdone and phony. I chose apple because I was sick of worrying about my computer crashing; best decision of my life. If Jerry Seinfeld is Microsoft's Darth Maul then Steve Jobs is Obi-won Kenobi.
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|I got to say, I've been running Vista for a over a year, and I just love it to bits. All my software works, with superfetch and readyboost, its faster than XP. I can't remember it ever crashing, it just works, and it looks great. I just wish all the MAC bigots would stop spreading lies, and FUD about Vista. Once you use it on current hardware, it really is a great experience.
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|Just keep telling yourself that, we believe you....
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|Starbucks and other Vista users. Please read what you are typing. "vista works well with very few problems" Hmm Having used all platforms of computers for the last 26 years. Vista is hurting and should not have been released. I use a Mac for 99% of what I need now. To call it a limited OS would simply mean a level of ignorance as implied by the brain washing of Windows is the everything in the computer industry. Remember also that you are a lucky one of few that has been able to get Vista to run any length of time. And how many security updates? Dont try to count. Oh yes My MAC has been going 365 24/7 for two years and the number of updates is for Software no OS. Those have been I think 4 or five. Wow all that on one hand. MAC users arent bigots Just tired of an os that has built itself to be unreliable.
Thanks
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|You're in love with an OS? Man that's kinky. Does it give you hugs and kisses?
I'm running Vista X64 and it's a total disaster. I'm running on an HP Elite with quad core, but that's no help.
Make sure you use proper protection, cause I'd hate to see what Vista would be like if it got pregnant.
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|See! Once again someone whining about how Vista is a disaster and giving no examples.
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|The vast majority of corporations have already pronounced Vista a failure. What more do you need in the way of examples?
I'm a member of the MSDN and the Windows Product Improvement Team. I was writing software when you were a pup. You also seem incapable of recognizing irony.
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|The vast majority of corporations have already pronounced Vista a failure.
Bulls***.
Let me guess, you're going to give us the same tired articles from almost a year ago, right? Did you miss that IBM is already deploying Vista?
What more do you need in the way of examples?
That wasn't an example, that was hearsay.
Nice try, Jr.
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|Really? you should avoid further conversations on the technical side until you get a clue.
OSX has had plenty of security updates you call them 10.5.1, 10.5.2, 10.5.3 etetc
Hell even Linux has constant updates there is no such thing as a perfect OS, but you know let me know how it feels to live in the clouds...
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|Apologise for the mis understanding. MAC OSX does have updates on a regular basis. However, not on a nightly basis. Nor is it as prone to virus attacks etc. etc. One glaring problem before is what vista encountered in the beginning. The compatability list was some what short. That has been rectified on the Mac side and is slowly coming to fruition on the VISTA side. In the end I still use both and prefer stability of MAC and on the Windows side XP. Head not in clouds just like to be grounded in what I know works well and is stable.
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|The performance is the real problem even with a quad core and 8 gigs of ram vista is still pretty slow.
I don't imagine business users will migrate since Windows XP SP3 just came out.
Windows 7 needs to be 40% faster then Vista to be modestly attractive.
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|The performance is the real problem even with a quad core and 8 gigs of ram vista is still pretty slow.
I've wasted enough time trying to dance around this--you're just full of sh!t.
With 2 Gigs of RAM in a three-year old machine (yes--that's PC3200 RAM, not even DDR2) my system boots faster than it did in XP, and since July of last year (with the NVIDIA drivers that came out that month) games have been faster as well.
I've seen numerous other examples that I could waste my time explaining, but you probably aren't reading this anyway so why bother...
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|Not sure how its slow for you. Its just fine for me. Works nice and smooth. You must have one clogged up computer.
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|i share the same experience! right on.
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|One of the computers I use it on has only 1 gig of ram and runs at about the same speed as XP did on it. I think that machine is 4-5 years old. lol
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|This "Vista is crap" mantra is getting tired. Everyone who's actually used it since SP1 pretty much agrees.
It's the usually, tired, pathetic MSFT trolls who always (and will always) say otherwise.
I think we're all about ready to simply ignore them from now on.
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|What you said!
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|Ok, so after Vista has been forced upon you by virtue of you buying a new computer(unless you buy Dell, which gives you the choice of Ubuntu GNU/Linux), and after you realize Vista isn't so great(this would be shortly after removing the computer from the box and powering it up), you can get the alternative to Vista - GNU/Linux for free.
You can even boot up a "LiveCD" version of GNU/Linux without making any changes to your computer to see if you like it, if it works well, and want to install it.
For a list of the different LiveCDs that are available, checkout: http://www.livecdlist.com
Most GNU/Linux versions will automatically configure your computer to "dual-boot" to GNU/Linux or Vista after installation. This means you will be able to choose which operating system you want to use every time you turn on your computer. And, since GNU/Linux will let you see and change your Vista files, you have even more power to do what you want with your computer.
Also, Ubuntu GNU/Linux( http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download ) will let you install it as a program Vista.
To get started, you'll need to download a *.iso file with the GNU/Linux version of your choice, and then you'll need to burn it to a CDR disk.
To learn more about the different versions that are freely available, checkout http://distrowatch.com
Go Freedom! Go Linux!
Shannon VanWagner
http://healthysystem.blogspot.com
Get your COOL GNU/Linux TShirt here:
http://free.spreadshirt.com
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|You know, Im sick of all these advertisers like you. You advertise other operating systems claiming that Vista is horrible and then don't even give legitimate reasons.
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|Ubuntu has come a long way in laptop support from 7.1. Sound now works without compiling the drivers, the display was auto configured perfectly, and the partitioning was orders of magnitude faster than before. Way to go!
The wireless LAN card didn't work, though, even after using the specific windows drivers for my laptop with ndiswrapper. I'm patient, however. With the improvements I've seen already in a year; they'll have this chipset (Realtek 8187B USB) supported in six months or a year. I can wait.
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|Hi, dvferret;
I'm not an advertiser, as you say. I never said Vista is horrible. In fact, Ubuntu isn't on my laptop, though I've tried 8.04 LTS last week. Even though 8.04's far better than 7.10; I'm still going to use Vista for most, if not virtually all of my computing tasks.
Why Ubuntu at all? My Palm m130 won't work with Palm Desktop 6 that (somewhat) works with Vista, and Palm Desktop 4.14, that works with my m130, won't work in Vista. Ubuntu gives me a chance to still use the m130 occasionally; the *only* other option is to buy a $100 copy of Outlook. I can't justify that purchase cost with my projected use of the m130.
I'm very happy with the upgraded security features of Vista, even though they aren't as seamless as Linux. But, MS will get there. The ecosystem of Windows is HUGE, and it'll take a long time to s*** developers' ways of thinking.
Remember, UAC/virtualization is a first draft effort (you can't test all scenarios, or users' mindsets, in the lab).
BTW, I've used Windows since version 3.11, Mac since 7.1 to OS X 10.3, and many flavors of Linux. Which OS I use depends on the hardware I'm using at the time.
Steve
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|I was talking in general. Covering the other people who are whining on here. All the annoying fanboys trying to convince us with a bunch of nonsense.
I like Ubuntu but when I tried the liveCD version (8.04) that I got in the mail the other day on my dell laptop. It loaded fine except that the mousepad didnt work. The mouse on the screen was going crazy every time I touched the mousepad. Not sure why.
Ive used Windows since 95. Havent had much time with linux. Mostly playing around with Ubuntu here and there. I used mac back in the 90s at school but thats about it. :P
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|oh skip it.
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|Vista's problems are rank. They smell to heaven. Troubleshooting this thing has robbed me of many hours of my time. Hours I could have used to learn a new language. Hours I could have spent with my family, or studying music. I have had it with this piece of garbage. And Dell, with their support people in India who cannot understand my language, is no better. They too have wasted hours of my time and sent me down many dead ends.
I have always used PCs with Windows operating systems. No more. My next computer will be a Mac.
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|I agree: why doesn't Microsoft put the $300-million into fixing problems with Vista? And while they're at it, maybe they could fix some of the thousands of other defects in Windows and Internet Explorer which have been left there for years, requiring developers to waste millions of man-hours tracking down fixes and work-arounds in order to enable business users to get useful work done.
The obscene truth is that Microsoft's monopoly over the hardware distribution channel for PC's enables them to ship defective products which negate standards they themselves have created, and impose huge costs on businesses who have no choice but to adopt whatever new versions of (whatever) Microsoft chooses to ship. Not because it's better, but because personal computing needs standardization more than it needs quality products.
Microsoft has learned over the years that their survival depends upon continually shuffling the standards deck, even if the result of the shuffle is an inferior product. Windows XP had finally reached a level of stability and reliability that made it a threat to Microsoft's hegemony over desktop computing, and Vista was the solution.
Unfortunately for them, the combination of open-source software, Google, and virtual computing are bringing down the curtain on the crowd up in Redmond, with or without Jerry Seinfeld as spokesperson. And besides, Jerry was the wrong cast-member for them to choose as their representative. The one they most resemble is George.
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|Wow..this might be the most vapid, uninteresting and utterly insincere analysis in BN's***ory. So Microsoft DID try to fix Vista, did it? Show me where. Except for a few unbelievable bugs they fixed in SP-1, which elevated Vista from a "non-product" to a "poor product", give me a single example of something they overhauled to salvage this piece of refuse. We all know better, and so do YOU, Betanews. And as for John Kerry's problems, I hate to break it to you, Tim & Scott, but just wanting something to not be true doesn't make it go away. Kerry was a two-faced traitor to his country and the men who had the misfortune to serve under him. He lied to Congress to garner peacenik cred, he made selfish and misguided judgments in combat, and he went to amazing lengths to insure that the only baggage HE brought back from 'Nam was a phony label of "war hero". Deal with it.
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|pfft..
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|IT'LL TAKE MORE THAN SEINFELD TO TURN THIS PIG'S EAR INTO A SILK PURSE...GOOD LUCK!!!
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|where do you people get these "sayings" from, Pigs ear and silk purse?! wow i thought ive heard them all!
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|It's turn a "sow's ear into a silk purse." That phrase has been around for a lot longer than anyone on this board has been alive.
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