One comment from Warner was that they has followed the consumer and the consumer had made their decision. Well they were wrong on that in two ways. Firstly, the consumer has not decided and if anything the momentum was starting to swing towards HD-DVD and away from BD. This is not a decision in favour of the consumer but rather in favour of Warner!

Straw poll suggestion over 90% of people think it's game over for HD DVD now..

http://poll.pollcode.com/dB4n_result

What are you going to do you have nothing else to live for now that your religion (the war) looks to be ending. You really have gotten yourself all worked up about this. I for one could careless I have both formats. You really need to get a life.

Check again
43%

Joey, please... seriously.

The wording of the choices suggests Blu-ray bias all over.

Yep, this is the final nail in HD DVD's coffin.

I suspect HD DVD will pay off some other studio now to counter.

Yeah, okay... "final nail", "some other studio", etc.

Care to offer an opinion on where you think this poll was first conducted? I have a good idea.

Anyway, there's only been one "counter" involving a studio pay-off... and that happened Friday.

90% = the first 2 options. i.e. the end, or close to the end.

Oh I see you’re allowed to twist the results to support your argument?
Sorry but NO, it says EXACTLY what it says. 4*% say its game over, the rest say its not good for them but not over yet.

43 + 45 = 90...

Hmm.

Must be fuzzy math.

This is nothing but another corporate ploy to get people to buy all over again (i.e., double-dipping) and f*** over the consumers yet again? Standard DVDs are just fine. Besides, Hollywood hasn't made anything in over 25 years worth seeing, let alone buying.

I agree with that statement. Most people think SD DVD is more than enough.

SONY = rootkits, DRM, the inability to play a purchsed mp3 on your other players, over PR'd products, pay offs to companies and the king of all, SPIN!!

At the end of the day business is about profits and if that means a company can buy peoples minds so be it BUT NOT MINE!

sorry that warner hurt your feelings and chose a different format than you...

and I'm sure Microsoft is SO much more consumer friendly...get the hell out of here...

"DRM, the inability to play a purchsed mp3"

Another clueless idiot. Where do they all come from.

MP3 cannot have any form of DRM, it simply does not support it.

Now go back in your hole, and cry some more for your failed format.

PS. Anyone seen Hockuspokus recently? I think someone should drive round to his trailer park and check up on him..

Microsoft is not the main backer of HD-DVD. Toshiba is.

Before mouthing off at someone and calling them a clueless idiot read what they actually said first. He mentioned nothing about adding DRM TO a mp3... so who is the clueless idiot?

Secondly, there has been mp3's with DRM in the past. The most famous example was the creators of soft-lock - it was commercially used by some artists but died a horrible death because of its lack of popularity. I spent a very long time reverse engineering it.
Dont try and use the 'clueless idiot' ploy when clearly you dont have any clue yourself.

What's with all of the whining about interactivity? Are there really that many people that care about the special features, picture and picture, and 80 different audio tracks? In my opinion DVD took off when you could just buy the stupid movie in its original format on a single disc at a low price. Come find me when every release on the high-definition formats isn't the limited collector's edition. Until then, upconverted $5-$10 DVDs are "good enough" against the overpriced and overstuffed HD/BR releases.

I never pay more than $15 per movie on BD...

except boxed sets i have like Planet Earth and The Sopranos season 6 Part I and II

Sadly, when there is only one format left you are going to have to be prepared to pay more than $15 unless you don’t mind waiting for the title to become a bit older. Goodbye to buy one get one free

I love how Hollywood has gotten so desperate in this whole situation that he wants to prove he is better than you but comparing SAT scores, W-2's, TV size, and the capabilities of your remote control....

what a tool box he is...didn't have much credibility to begin with...but he has gone off the deep end now...

"I have inside information that Warner will be going HD-DVD exclusive at CES"

BAHAHA!

I can't imagine MS ever going Blu in the Xbox, so where does that leave 360 users? Only getting HD games but no HD movie content and having to buy another player for movies? That's the ultimate kick in the boys, that's for sure.

As far as BD, our local super-shop was selling both HD-DVD and Sony's 300 BD player for $99. So, that about throws that comparison out the window too...

And, PS3 plays profile 1.1, whatever the hoot that means.

MS is as much a wh*** as any other business. They'll go where the money is. If Blu-ray becomes the only HD movie format, you can be sure that Gates & Co. will find a way to include it...if not as a 'bolt on' drive this generation, then in some fasion during the next.

So many people have their cystal balls in full use expressing their knowledge and insight into other business plans.

Who cares, I know I don't

Latest studio to defect, is New Line, which is now also confirmed Blu-ray exclusive.

This means that Lord Of The Rings, is now a Blu-ray exclusive release..

Watch the other studios follow suit. Universal must have VERY itchy feet right now..

New Line and HBO will follow suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Universal will now go blu soon. I also wouldn't be surprised if the HDDVD group allowed Paramount to opt out early as well.

New Line already has. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=808

The quicker everything gets moved over to Blu the better for everybody. Hopefully HD-DVD will just throw in the towel and get it over with, because I don't think they are going to pull out of this one. I like HD-DVD better, but I am also not blind to the truth.

Funny thought...

Can you imagine how much better Blu-ray players could be if the tables turned enough for Toshiba to start manufacturing them?

As far as DVD players are concerned, Toshiba was the world's first to offer many of the features that are now becoming quite commonplace... progressive scan, component video outputs, etc... not to mention offering the world's first DVD player in the first place.

Maybe one day we will have a Blu-ray player that offers all of the features we have been promised for the past 1½ years... and it will have a Toshiba badge on it.

I agree. Toshiba has been the leader in dvd tech for the past I don't know how long. I paid $400 for my first tosh dvd player.

I hope they do make blu-ray players and others follow suit.

I just read some of the new stories at blu-ray.com

First Michael Bay says "no Blu Ray, no Transformers 2" The BD lemmings all jump up and down little little girls.

Then Michael Bay says "Sorry, I was wrong, they got me drunk last night and I didnt know what I was saying". At which point, the BD lemmings all do the same thing, they bashed Michael Bay saying he sucks and they will never buy Transformers on any format.

Now Michael Bay says "Blu Ray is simply better" and they are all back sucking his d*** saying "We can't wait for Transformers on Blu"

This is exactly why I can't stand people like DaveBG and his imaginary clones. Say what you want to say, but at least stick to what you say.

Don't flip flop back and forth because everyone else is doing it in your tight little circle of "freinds". You (Dave) simply dont have a mind of your own and it's so obvious with your Sony brainwashing. You also try to get everyone to believe what you do to feel better about yourself.

Perfect example: Someone asks about a Blu Ray player and you suggets the worst one imaginable so Sony can sell another PS3. This is what makes you a sad person.

You were finally right about one thing (Wanrer) and I bet you didnt get a wink of sleep last night as you were posting your nonsense on every forum know to man about the Warner Blu Ray story.

The problem is the die hard HD-DVD exclusive fanboys will never buy a Blu-Ray player or BD movies now that it looks like the end of HD-DVD is near. They are all talking about selling all thier movies and players and just going with standard DVD forever just to spite BD.

Which is stupid in my opinion but you would have done the same thing if HD-DVD ended up winning this "contest".

What was my reaction to Warner going Blu Ray? As I just purchased the Harry Potter 1-5 box set and dont want to end up with movies 1-5 on HD-DVD and 6-7 on BD, I' giving my HD-DVD set to my brother after watching only one of the movies and going out to buy the BD version at Best Buy today. They have a dozen or so in stock.

Of course I won't actually have to pay for them as I have Reward Zone coupons and gift cards but that's not the point. The point is I will never be like you, which is satisfying in every way you could possibly imagine.

give me a couple reasons why the PS3 is the "worst" Blu-ray player?...

its already shown it can have its profile upgraded with a firmware update...it already has all the necessary hardware for a profile 2.0 update...its a VERY solid DVD up-converter....plus looking at it as a solid blu-ray player for $399 you get a free BD movie (spiderman 3), you get internet browsing, you get voice chat, you get video chat, and a next gen gaming system....you show me one stand alone player that can offer all of that for the price...

"...I' giving my HD-DVD set to my brother after watching only one of the movies and going out to buy the BD version at Best Buy today. They have a dozen or so in stock."

A word of advice Hollywood...

Check the package BEFORE you leave the store. I'm not sure if you've heard or not, but Warner had to put a disc replacement into effect for the Goblet of Fire discs, in the BR set. According to reports, this disc was actually an HD DVD in the BR box set.

Met, maybe you can answer this for me, as I've been unable to find anything definitive on line.

Is the PS3 truly profile 1.1 compliant (meaning it has the secondary video and audio decoders as part of it's hardware), or is it pulling it off, with some sort of software trick?

to be honest im not really sure...i have not seen anything in writing about it...

I doubt it is just a software trick so to speak....remember the PS3 has not only the blu-ray drive like your average BD player but it also has a video card, and a 3ghz cpu with 7 SPE's to handle any grunt work needed...

as far as i know it is truly 1.1 compliant

I thought the PS3 handled everything related to Blu-Ray and DVD movie playback in software. Maybe it's just the video that's handled in software. As far as I know the Nvidia GPU is strictly used for games and not for movies.

I wish we all had some type of official word from Sony on that matter. The PlayStation 3 is certainly the most capable of handling those tasks, and appears to have all of the requirements to be even BD-Live compliant... but why Sony after all this time has not even hinted at the possibility of that is beyond me.

What's wrong with giving consumers something to look forward to, no matter how long it takes to bring to market? No one likes to play the guessing game.

"Don't flip flop back and forth because everyone else is..."

EXAMPLE:
BEFORE "I have insider information that Warner will go HDDVD exclusively at CES, it will happen, you'll see, just you watch, I can't wait for CES, you'll see. It will happen, i just know it as a fact"
NOW: "CES means nothing anyways, it's a kids show."

Flip, flop, Flip, flop, Flip, flop.

LOL.

I like this bit..

"Perfect example: Someone asks about a Blu Ray player and you suggets the worst one imaginable so Sony can sell another PS3. This is what makes you a sad person."

Sorry to rain on your parade, the PS3 is simply the best Blu-ray player out there right now, it's on par quailty-wise with the best $1000 players, it boots the quickest, it's the quietest, it's the cheapest, and it's the most future-proof.

I won't even mention it's hoards of other tricks that set it above all the other players for $399.

The decoders don't need to be in hardware to be Profile 1.1 compliant. You just need the decoders. Now seeing as the existing decoder in the PS3 is software based, all Sony needed to do, in essescence, is create a new instance of the decoder, giving 2 decoders when needed.

All the decoders are software based in the PS3, all the codecs are software based, it's all done on the cell.

This means, it's pretty much infinately upgradable, within the scope of it's hardware.

Standalone players implement all this hard-coded into DSP's, which don't offer much scope for upgradability.

All your post does, is prove your lack of technical knowledge.

Because it's not the Japanese way..

Microsoft like to promise, and mostly deliver. Sony stay quiet until the last possible moment, for fear of other stealing their thunder/ideas.

It's purely a cultural thing.

Funny that the Blu-Ray and the costs associated with it is what was killing the PS3... Now it looks like it may be what saved Blu-Ray and pretty soon, Blu-Ray will continue to help the PS3.

So this "forcing a format on you", turned out to be a great idea that paid off. Sony took a chance, and it paid off.

Wow Deacon...I almost gave you credit for answering a civil question, with a civil answer.

I should have known better.

"Sony stay quiet until the last possible moment, for fear of other stealing their thunder/ideas."

Did you miss the pre-release hype machine for the PS3, or do you have Alzheimer's?

It took Sony almost a full year to deliver on SOME of their promises, while others (like Home and MGS4) are still just flapping in the breeze.

It's funny .... that post was addressed to Dave, I see you all answered. Thanks for proving my point.

Liar.

You are absolutely right, the store showed them in stock but will not sell them as they have to go back.

I'll wait until they re-release them with the correct discs. I though it was a certain batch but I guess the problem is wide spread.

I sure did prove a point...

Where's your inside information now?

Flip Flop, Flip Flop, Flip Flop,

As usual, you don't get what I said. Your little group of women over there all think one thing, and everyone goes along with it because you are a bunch of followers.

You can't help it, whenever you wan't to brainwash a bunch of people, you start with the dumbest one's first.

This was adressed to Dave. Why are you answering?

Thats right .........

Again, adressed to Dave, yet you are answering.

They did say that they wanted to go HD DVD but Fox would not budge I guess they lied about what they wanted to make you happy.

Like its been said if that is the best that is very sad.

Lack of knowledge and that proves what? Not a damn thing just a chance to flame again, nice.

"...whenever you wan't to brainwash a bunch of people, you start with the dumbest one's first"

So thats why Beta"news" chose you! Thanks for clearing that up.

????? ........... This is like arguing with a retard or a monkey.

Your posts make no sense sometimes.

Hollywood, i would consider trying to find one...and buy it now...

im not sure off the top of my head what the replacement plan is....

but in the 2nd pirates film on blu-ray there was a framing issue in the original release...where a scene or two you would see like the bottom half of orlando bloom's chracter while he was talking...Disney's replacement policy was just to call them and they sent you a new one...got to keep the old one, and it only affected a couple scenes...total freebie....if Warner is running a similar program with the HP movies you might get yourself a freebie HP movie...not that its a big deal...but whatever..

Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience. lol

Flip Flop, Flip Flop, Flip Flop

Yeah OK "fernz33". Anytime you want to go toe to toe with SAT scores and W-2's let me know.

I am literally laughing while reading his posts. I can see I've gotten under his skin so badly that he's resorted to sounding like a little grade school kid. I can basically control him like a puppet simply by typing.

I love it.

I can handle idiots and liars, we are dealing with both here.

The latest update for PS3 (2.10) includes Profile 1.1 support as well as Divx updates. It's all software...

Not the japanese way? Excuse me?

I'd love to go to go heel-to-toe with SAT scores, and I'm not sure what W-2 means... do you mean Wii, cause I don't have one of those yett... oops, I mean yet (just one 't', just one).

He's saying he is smarter and makes more money than you do. LOL

I have a nice HD DVD player addon for the 360 for sale? Hollywood would you like to buy it? Plenty of Star Trek titles are available for it. LOL

I am sad HD DVD lost, but glad there is a true winner now. However, I'm moving on from disc based media anyways, so I care a lot less now.

Bye Bye HD DVD, it was a nice try.

Hollywood - Michael Vick makes more than you or I, and I don't think intelligence is well associated with money making. However, you did mention SAT, but I think thats a stupid test anyways. Anyone relying on it for intelligence is...well...stupid IMHO.

I think one of the biggest difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is that, I don't know about the states, but at least here in Japan, I haven't seen any (or many) HD-DVD recorder drives.

I have to burn off at least 100 to 200 Gigs a day and I use tape for final backups, and DVD was a pain in the ass. But here Blu-Ray drives you can find as cheap as around 10k Yen , (appx $99) for a used one. I bought the LG one that can write Blu-Ray and read both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD so I don't think I'm in trouble if they decide to throw away either, but still, PC storage is becoming a problem, and if HD-DVD don't come up with more PC drives, they're going to be in serious trouble.

I mean, people fill up 4TB RAID harddrives daily, and I don't mean at work. At work, it's even worse...

Yeah, so now I use the dual-layer Blu-Ray, which I only have to burn 2-3 or 4 a day.

Not too bad. Compared to like what, 50 DVDs a day ?

Anyone recall that Toshiba make a claim that all Toshiba drives would contain a HD DVD drive.

That never happened did it...

Blu-ray is leading in the PC field, by a massive margin, even Apple are now shipping Macs with Blu-ray drives.

Blu as far as the eye can see..

I have to burn off at least 100 to 200 Gigs a day

You, sir, are a 1-in-a-million case. You're not exactly the typical market for these things, and the recording market isn't what sets the standard for movies.

At $20 a disc, you're also paying a lot of money to burn that data compared to spending a quarter per DVD.

Oh great the biggest bulls*** artist to graze this site is back for his once a story post.
Last time it was $200, now its $99 - but you keep forgetting to back yourself up? Still waiting for you to disclose the location of these fantastic priced drives. Pity computer hardware is not cheap here so I very much doubt you can backup your claim

No person/company in their right mind would be 'burning' that much data period. Tape is the only real answer.

As for the rest of your post.... wtf?

Exactly... and if he's in charge of backups where he works, he most certainly needs to be fired on the grounds of fraud, waste, and abuse.

At our shop we have dual backup servers each with 1.5 TB 4-drive RAID 5 volumes. They synchronize on a daily basis. We provide offsite data storage, web hosting, and e-mail hosting for several customers. That combined with our own in-house storage needs and backing up our own domain controller is more than enough... and when it's not, it's easily upgradeable.

Tapes are becoming quite archaic, but I agree that they are still a very effective and somewhat reliable solution... definitely not as expensive or as time-consuming as his proposed Blu-ray solution.

uhm... you need proof?

http://www.coneco.net/idx/01202080.html
go look up prices here.

In Akihabara, you can often bargain for cheaper prices, and that's how I found the $99 drive.

Hey, not everyone checks Betanews every single day lol.

One very interesting thing is people make a very weird face on you when you give them proof data in tapes.

But at least here in Japan, if you buy a new computer, you can get a Blu-Ray for not too much as I just posted the link.

Anyone know any good link for cheap deals and stuff in the States? When I was back in the States, I always used dealsea.com for cheap deals, but I don't know about nowadays...

Combo drives and still no drive thats $200... lots of shocking reviews as well... what exactly does that prove?

In Akihabara you can bargain sure, bulls*** you can bargain a brand new unit down to $99 though. Cheapest wholesale price in Japan TODAY for the BHC-6316FBS-BK is wow 26,000yen so theres not much of a markup compaired to the CHEAPEST offered price.
And sorry to say that drive is just a peice of s***, makes the dvd reader in the xbox look like a A grade dvd player.

I would be willing to believe you can pickup a second hand one for $99 if anything.

The LG model they have as best favorates is spot on the cheapest priced one you will find in a conventional electronic store.

Just curious, what kind of work do you do that requires moving that much data. I hope you understand that bold claims of that much data daily (and easily) raises more than a few eyebrows.

This was all about the blu-ray answer to $99 HD-DVD players though? Not just a simple something you can get for your computer (if your stupid enough to purchase one of those drives – common).
For the record, its not just ‘here in Japan’ its in the USA also and ‘here in Japan’ PC parts are not so cheap

forensic work.
for record purposes, wasn't my idea, but my boss decide to make a literal, not backup but physical copy of everything.

You won’t have ANY trouble whatsoever in Japan with tape drives, no customer that deals with that amount of data will look at you strange. I find it very hard to believe that your boss chose a terrible inefficient way to make copies of everything. But then again, you’re Australian like me and not in Japan at all. Don’t forget to share your next trips plans on your blog ;) I enjoy reading it

Ouch. :)

I never been to Australia, you know.
I've been to France, US, China, UK, but never Australia.

but, no.
Depends on your target.
When you talk to IT people, you talk tape, they say of course. When you talk to top management guys who doesn't know what LAN is, you have to sort of be more creative or else they're shrug and say forget it.

Looks like NewLine have now also gone Blu-ray exclusive, with HBO and BBC releases expected to follow:

http://www.highdefdigest...uncement_(UPDATED)/1328

The Toshiba press release at CES is cancelled...

http://www.highdefdigest...S_Press_Conference/1331

Finally, confirmation, NO payoffs were involved..

http://www.highdefdigest...or_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327

Um..Paramount/Dreamworks' exclusivity to HD-DVD is only temporary. After the 18 months they are free to renew HD-DVD exclusivity, go back to both, or just support blu ray. After what Warner just did it's highly likely they'll go Blu ray exclusive also after the 18 month deal is over. Remember, they only went HD-DVD exclusive in the first place because MS paid them off $150 million

Since you chose to ignore this little piece of information that I posted earlier, allow me to repeat it.

Actually, that rumor was pretty well denied...

from http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/the-state-of-hd-dvd/

Jordi Ribas, GM of the HD DVD Group at Microsoft responded:

Microsoft provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks. Michael Bay's additional comments about our commitment to HD DVD are similarly unfounded. We have major technology investments in HD DVD...and have more than 100 staff at Microsoft dedicated to the success of HD DVD.

Without an official statement, there is no way of knowing what kind (if any) money was offered to WB on the back end.

I fail to see how "clear" the HD market is when two major studios like Warner and Paramount have chosen to compete head to head by exclusively supporting two different formats. 2008 is certainly not going to be the HD Year (especially when you consider that the winner of this "war" is the DVD, by a humongous margin).

Indeed, well said.

Well, I would expect Universal to go neutral or Blu exclusive very soon, so that basically leaves Paramount as the only studio not on Blu-ray.

How long will that HD DVD deal last. Not very long, at worst another 12 months before they can get out their contract, more likely there is a clause that allows them to break free sooner, and pay back some, or all of that money.

Let's face it, if Paramount don't now release on Blu-ray, soon, then it's obvious that there was a payoff involved, as what company would sign up to a 18 month tie-in, with no getout clause, for free...

Likewise, what company in their right mind would willingly and voluntarily give up making profits on two formats and exclusively release on one without some incentive in the form of large sums of monetary compensation?

The market has not "clearly" chosen Blu-ray when the Blu-ray media sales should be much higher than they are right now if you consider the sheer number of Blu-ray-capable players versus HD DVD players.

If it was a good business decision on Warner's behalf, it was only because of a tremendous payoff from the BDA.

Nate, is it possible to create a "kill file" option where we could filter certain users out usenet style, or maybe a scoring system that's accessible to users like osnews and slashdot? I'd prefer to read at +1 mehself.

Greasemonkey could probably do it if you wanted to play around with it, (filtering on poster or score).

But yes, I'd also prefer to view more sane comments.

I would love to see a system like that implemented here.

Actually, a better idea would be to only allow one active registered user name/account per IP address. These smurf-tastic games get tiresome.

What is all this ridiculous talk about Warner not "listening to the consumer"? Warner IS listening, they based their decision on that Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD disks every week in 2007. That's pretty clear indication consumers have chosen blu-ray. The only people buying cheapass $99 hd-dvd players are rednecks who shop at walmart

The HD DVD players only sold one model at $99, and that was for a very short time. Before that, and after that, HD DVD players have consistantly outsold Blu-ray players where I work by roughly five to one, and that continues right on through to today.

I don't know what consumers Warner is supposedly listening to, but they certainly aren't paying any attention to the ones I see every single day, day in and day out. The ones that are actualy spending their hard earned money on these players and their discs.

You are the only person on the planet that seems to be claiming 5:1 in favor of HD DVD sales.

Everyone else is seeing about even on standalones, and 7,000,000 PS3's

That's not really listening to consumers.

How many PS3's are out there? How many are sold each week? While some are sold to be used as players, most are for gaming. Once someone gets it for gaming, why not try out the blu-ray movies? They already own the player.

Sony decided for those consumers by including blu-ray playback in a gaming console. A good move, but hardly showing that consumers choose blu-ray.

You are incorrect. Most people who are actually interested in high definition movies are buying superior HD-DVD players. Why would anyone want to waste money on a Blu-Ray player? There are currently no Blu-Ray players that can internally decode DTS-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio yet there are a significant amount of movies on the market that use the high resolution DTS audio formats. A 1.5mbps DTS soundtrack (which is what most people get) does NOT sound anything like a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack.

HD-DVD doesn't have this kind of mess and never did. It has always supported Dolby TrueHD as well as Dolby Digital Plus (which Blu-Ray apparently does not support). Dolby TrueHD is superior to DTS-HD Master Audio in every way. HD-DVD has also never used the inferior MPEG-2 video format since its release, only VC-1 and MPEG-4.

Ooo... careful, before you invoke the wrath of aredo. :)

Just what we need, another lecture on theoretical signal theory.

"Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray"

Really? Not at the store I work at. HD DVD players continue to outsell Blu-rays by about a five to one margin with no indication of any change in that trend at all coming any time soon. I don't think the Warner guys are doing this because they were paying any attention to what the customers are actually doing with their wallets.

Of course, what does the average consumer know, they are just the ones that are paying EVERYONES bills in this whole situation. They are just the "sheep" that will do exactly as corporate America tells them to do, right?

I think all these companies would be wiser to pay much more attention to what the consumers are actually doing with their hard earned dollars, and far less attention to what their marketing MBA's are telling them.

Anyone will tell you, if you want to know how the "war" is going, you don't talk to the generals in Washington, you talk to the soldiers in the trenches on the front lines. Or, at least that is what you do if you want real information, based on reality.

"I think all these companies would be wiser to pay much more attention to what the consumers are actually doing with their hard earned dollars..."

I think you are right... And I think that's what Warner did. Blu outsold Red every week in 2007. Despite the amount of "Dedicated" sales.

Considering that less than 1 percent of all movie sales is comprised of HD-DVD and Blu Ray combined, consumers have chosen standard DVD so far.

This is nothing but a niche product for true movie enthusiasts and rabid cheerleading fanboys. I don't think it will ever become mainstream or replace standard DVD.

The difference between HD satellite and standard def is staggering. Standard DVD and HD-DVD look close enough for people not to notice the difference, especially on 42 inch TV's and under.

agree for the most part actually...

for now the HD media market means nothing to the average consumer...until the price of HDTV's comes down there is no way that any sort of HDM becomes widespread...

eventually I think it will surpass DVD, but it will be years...just as it was years before DVD passed VHS sales...

where i disagree is your stance on the difference between DVD and HD-DVD or Blu-ray...

the difference is just as staggering as HD broadcasts vs SD broadcasts...

The TV in my bedroom is a 32" 720p/1080i Samsung HDTV and there is just no comparison between standard DVD and blu-ray...you do NOT need a 42" TV or 1080p to notice a very big difference between DVD and HD-DVD or Blu-ray...the sheer storage size of the discs allows for such greater resolution and MUCH higher bit-rates of better encodings...and another advantage is lossless HD audio support...stuff like DTS: MA support...for home theaters there is no comparison between HD-DVD/Blu-ray and DVD...NONE....

im totally shocked that people with such knowledge of the industry would be willing to settle for standard dvd...

I agree with you, for the most part on this one (see...we can be civil when we want LOL).

The point that I disagree with you on:

"im totally shocked that people with such knowledge of the industry would be willing to settle for standard dvd..."

I, on the other hand, am not so shocked. My distaste for the BR format comes from having used it, and compared it to HD DVD. On the whole, the picture and audio quality are comparable between the 2 formats.

My point of contention is that once you go beyond the movie, and into the extras, BR hasn't really offered me anything that standard DVD has. With the exception of 1 movie, Resident Evil Extinction, there has been little to no interactivity offered.

HD DVD on the other hand, turned watching a 'making of' feature, into an experience, with their use of PIP. Even the little things make the overall experience better for me (for instance, my niece and nephew love being able to change the character on the menu for Shrek 3). Without the level of interactivity that HD DVD has offered me, the extras are just filler that I generally ignore.

Maybe once Blu-ray gets its **** together, and has a finalized product, offering me the same feature set, I'll get more excited about it. Until that time, though, I'm going to spend my money on the tech that I prefer.

"Anyone will tell you, if you want to know how the "war" is going, you don't talk to the generals in Washington, you talk to the soldiers in the trenches on the front lines. Or, at least that is what you do if you want real information, based on reality."

Well said. I have definitely gained more information from those who deal with the products (users and sales-people) then I have from any press release issued at the corporate level.

This is exactly why Blu-ray is an inferior format -- at least at the moment. When comparing current high-def DVDs side by side, HD DVD blows Blu-ray away when it comes to features and interactivity. Internet connectivity is also standard.

If Blu-ray is crowned king, I hope this changes.

"If Blu-ray is crowned king, I hope this changes."

Well considering how long the BDA dragged it's a** before FINALLY making Profile 1.1 the current standard, I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting.

Exactly... and considering the length of time it took with competition, imagine how long it will take without.

I am not arguing that there is a difference, but it is not quite as vast between SD broadcast and HD broadcast for the simple fact that the SD broadcast are such poor quality. I mean come on whenever you see artifacts on an SD TV that is just sad.

Amen to that. I don't even care anymore, just choose ONE g**d*** format so people could start buyin the stuff already! ;/

But what about the XBOX 360 Ultimate?

Seriously though, this news is, IMO, bigger than the Paramount deal. Universal and Paramount are now forced to follow suit (much like Sony did with DRM).

If this truly is the end of HDDVD, which it's hard to say it's not, then let's all put this behind us and move forward.

I'm not sure that I'd call this the end of HD DVD, since we've yet to hear what they have planned as a 'counterstrike'.

The trade shows are going to be interesting this year, to say the least...

"I'm not sure that I'd call this the end of HD DVD, since we've yet to hear what they have planned as a 'counterstrike'."

Yeah, M$ has deep pockets from their Windows/Office monopoly. What did they pay Paramount...$150 million?

probably the same amount sony paid warner

Actually, that rumor was pretty well denied...

from http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/the-state-of-hd-dvd/

Jordi Ribas, GM of the HD DVD Group at Microsoft responded:

Microsoft provided no financial incentives to Paramount or DreamWorks. Michael Bay's additional comments about our commitment to HD DVD are similarly unfounded. We have major technology investments in HD DVD...and have more than 100 staff at Microsoft dedicated to the success of HD DVD.

Just waiting for the holographic dvd's that are supposed to start appearing at the end of this year. That doesn't seem to be a dual format.

as was said in another thread:

"What kind of idiot signs an exclusive deal for 12 months with no way out for free?"

HD-DUD is not selling....no one is buying it. Blu-Ray commands 2/3 of the world wide market. Pretty simple business decision to get behind the winning format to increase your sales.

oh thank god blu ray won. God bless sony

Time for the Sony/Blo-Ray trolls to start high fiving each other, while shooting huge sticky wads into the air.

I have just one question for all you idiots: When was the last time any product or technology in which Sony had a hand in end up being competitively priced? Yeah, that's what I thought.

umm...Compact Disc? The PlayStation?, The PlayStation 2?...The PS3 is competitively priced considering what you get for not much more than an xbox360 elite...

you lose...

There's only one BD troll and he's posted fifty times under five different usernames in the last two hours.

CD's were created jointly by Sony and Philips. Ummm... PSone and PS2 are gaming systems, not media (aka Hi-FD's - 150mb High Floppy Disks, MiniDisc's, Memory Sticks, Betamax, Hi-MD's, UMD Movie Video's, SACD, ect... all failed Sony formats)

umm...Compact Disc? The PlayStation?, The PlayStation 2?...The PS3 is competitively priced considering what you get for not much more than an xbox360 elite...

you lose...

You're grasping at straws. You fail.

I'm still not buying a PS3.

Short and to the point.

Then I'll just keep buying them in DVD format and upconverting. I'm not paying $400 for a DVD player (any flavor).

why deprive yourself of High Definition? that is just silly....and prices will surely come down...

i understand somehow your feelings got hurt because you chose to support the wrong format but come on...really...

On a TV as small as your 42" Panasonic, you can't even tell the difference. When you get a man's TV, let us all know.

actually i have a Samsung TV...and I was also unaware that TV size is what decides if you are a man or not....

but i guess when you fall uhem, "short" in other areas you use your TV....makes sense...

and if you can't tell the difference between a blu-ray or hd-dvd and upscaled dvd you need a serious eye check...the difference is EASILY noticeable definitely on anything 32" or larger...period...maybe you are thinking about the difference between 720p/1080i/1080p on displays that size...

I have remotes that cost more than your Panasonic TV, which is sad.

On my 132" diagonal screen you can hardly tell the difference between them. I'm not depriving myself of anything really but thanks.

g** d*** your last comment "i understand somehow your feelings got hurt because you chose to support the wrong format but come on...really..." makes you a winner. I don't give two s***s who supports what, I thought that was clear in my initial post. I bought HD because it was $99 and I needed an upconverting DVD w/ HDMI and optical out so I fail to see how I was burned (hint upconverting DVD players are about that same price).

Thanks for the impression of a 10 year old though.

im sorry you wasted so much money on your manhood...i mean universal remote...

waiting for the proof that my name is Dave...

then you can't see....period...

if you can't tell the difference between HD Media and unconverted DVD than your plain and simple BLIND...the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-ray in 720p is DRASTIC over up converted DVD...

its simple math that says this...the resolution of DVD can simply not compare to either HD format...no matter how you try to spin it you can't get out of the fact that your upconverting player is still just guessing what should be in those extra pixels and its not truly HD...

It's absolutely not drastic, and coincidentally I just came back from the eye dr with 20/20 vision. Thanks though.

http://reviews.cnet.com/...-6810011-1.html?tag=txt

Thanks for being an ass, hopefully Betanews gets lots of dollars from your arrogance.

whats your point?...DVD's are not 720p, 1080i, or 1080p....no matter what BS your upconverting DVD player's box tells you....

No s***, but upconverted DVD is "good enough".

Just ask the market.

Thanks.

you just proved to me that you don't have a 132" projector...because anyone rocking a 132" high def projector would not settle for "good enough"....

i like the link you provided me....its a nice read...but im still looking for the part where is says 480i/p compares to 720p or 1080i/p at all...

http://www.stangdude.com.../articles/4664272125430/

Thanks.

i could probably find something WAY better on the net...

still can't understand why you would bother and then watch some cheesy low resolution movies...

you make no sense whatsoever...why watch an inferior product?

Because it's only inferior in your mind.

Who cares if you can find better, I own this one.

Thanks.

HAHA...inferior in my mind...tell that to all the movie studios, and directors...if that was the case then why do we go to movie theaters?...why film at such high resolutions?...we would all be watching SD 4:3 TV's if HD was not a better product

LOL Fewt, at least someone here tells the truth about what they own while others review products on cnet they don't actually own.

If you want a motorized drape rod with remote, I can get them wholsale. I have one in front of my screen with a custom built valance to cover the track. Dedicated theaters are the way to go if you have the resources (and your own home).

Nice theater. Anyone who says otherwise is a jealous turd.

I dunno where you are buying things, But my local Sams Club had a Sony Bly-Ray player for $277, and considering i just paid $249 for my Toshiba HD-A30, $277 isn't a bad price.

Hey Met,

I noticed you and your other usernames forget to capitalize your letter i's. Why is that?

Coincedence? Keep trying though .... you may outsmart me someday. Though it's not likely as I am better than you in every way possible.

Most Movie theaters show the danged movies out of focus let alone which bad resolution, and you using that as an example? LOL
Give me a break. Just because it is film at a good resolution does not mean it's shown most anywhere at the same Res or Focus

Buy something from Sams Club/Walmart.....no thanks.

Yeah, I've seen very little difference between my cheap phillips dvd upconverter (woo a whole $40 and it has hdmi and divx to boot) and my friends br... we have the same 60in tv both HD. Once they start providing features worth paying that additional cost and very noticable improvements in clarity, then it might be worth it, but *I* am not sinking money into crap that isn't providing me any great benefit.

I'd compare the DVD VS Hi Def contest to the old 24 karat gold Compact Discs that were around for awhile. Supposedly better sound. I just bought them beause of their collectability :P Not that it sounded any better.

My with the absurd comments shall we all go back to Laserdiscs? People chose Videotape in droves over laserdisc.

Lol you will be doing good if they have the projector lined up correctly with the screen at a movie theater!

Neither of them are worth more than $100.

Thanks, glad you like it. :-D

I'm not really into the drape rod, we don't use the room as a theater, more as a TV room. We designed it to be functional any time of day, and clearly visible from the kitchen and dinette so we could for example watch "TV" while we cook, eat, etc.

If it was dedicated just to a theater and completely blacked out I'd go that route.

"tell that to all the movie studios, and directors"

You mean the guys that are all about making money?

With the premium on HD and BD I can see how they would agree with me (not).

We had 16:9 before we had HD, you are comparing apples to oranges.

I didn't say that HD wasn't a better product, I said that DVD upconverted is "good enough" until HD becomes less expensive.

Thanks.

One of the best 'pwned's i have seen for a very long time :)

thats a fact, but i needed something that made my existing dvds look at least decent on my new tv and even upconverted some movies leave much to imagination.

The problem is, that Sony Blu-ray player is an early generation and does not include features the A30 has, such as Internet connectivity and picture in picture. To get the same functionality as the A30, you're going to pay at least $500.

I see. We mainly use ours only for movie nights because the bulbs cost $550 and last about 4000 hours, I sometimes play the 360 on it as it's an entirely different experience.

my dad had a laserdisc player. those things were the size of dinner plates. that's just way too big to be practical. i can't fit a laser disc player in my computer tower

i have a 65" and the radar is so small and out of the way on that thing it's almost more difficult to check it than if i were using a smaller tv. I can't imagine playing halo on a 132". My eyes might fall out.

every time i see "fire sale" i think, oh, it's that guy again.

plus DVDs aren't 480i.

True. I have a lot of LaserDiscs still that I do not yet have on DVD, and while it's hard to resist my nostalgic side, I'm still somewhat hesitant to break them out due to the hassle of it. My player has built-in A-B side switching (which is very convenient), but a lot of my movies came with two discs.

I could certainly imagine myself playing most of the Need for Speed games on a screen of that size. :)

I'm officially jealous.

or Betamax.

We took the cost of replacement bulbs into consideration when we designed it. We anticipate replacing the bulb about once a year at $400 a pop.

Man you can't put how awesome it is into words when gaming on it, eh? :-D

True that.

Man, you just can't stop with the insults.

So much for credibility.

Yes, it is... You just don't realize how sad.

By the way Dave, you have serious issues. Or is this some amazing coincedence?

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:37 PM

By Metfanant edited Jan 4, 2008 - 4:25 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:39 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:30 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:48 PM

By Metfanant posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:35 PM

By Steve Austin edited Jan 4, 2008 - 4:46 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:54 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:49 PM

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:18 PM

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:01 PM

By Steve Austin posted Jan 4, 2008 - 4:52 PM

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:38 PM

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:25 PM

By Joey Deacon edited Jan 4, 2008 - 5:17 PM

By Joey Deacon edited Jan 4, 2008 - 5:04 PM

By Metfanant edited Jan 4, 2008 - 5:36 PM

By Metfanant posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:47 PM

By Metfanant posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:52 PM

By Joey Deacon posted Jan 4, 2008 - 5:55 PM

By Metfanant posted Jan 4, 2008 - 6:05 PM

By Metfanant posted Jan 4, 2008 - 6:14 PM

By pitdingo2 posted Jan 4, 2008 - 6:49 PM

going with amazing coincedence, considering my name is not Dave...

God you really are an idiot. What about all the other people that posted in this same period, are they all Dave as well???

Considering this is a very hot topic, this amount of posts in an hour is not unheard of, most blogs/forums have the same, if not more traffic.

I think you need help, quickly, have you tried here: http://www.mentalhelp.net/

Sorry,

You have no credibility.

because you do??...blahahaha!!

how are those HD Media predictions you made looking right now??

I want one ounce of PROOF that my name is Dave, or that we could possibly be posting from the same computer...lets see you display your credibility by producing this info...

No, only the ones we know are you, which are the ones in the list above.

I'm done. You are beneath me and so is this conversation.

are you done because you have no proof?....

yeah thought so...

Wow. I'm going to have to agree with Hollywood_ on this one. After reading this whole page of posts I've come to the conclusion that the 3 aliases mentioned are the same person, or at least share the same brain and language. I've never seen someone so dedicated to a format, or company, before. How much does Sony pay this Metfanant/Joey/Steve to post about how great and mighty Bluray is????

FYI - Whoever posts under the name of Joey Deacon is likely to be from the UK or a resident of the UK in the mid-eighties as 'Joey Deacon' was a mentally-handicapped (sorry if that isn't the current p.c. term) man that became famous through a series of items about him and his life that where part of a UK children's TV series called Blue Peter which was shown on the BBC.

The chances are that the name is being used as a p**s take as it came to be a slang term used by the young to infur that someone was stupid, ignorant etc. (e.g. "what a complete 'Joey' you are!")

That all being said, if it is the same person posting under different IDs then perhaps naming himself Joey Deaon is valid as far as the slang meaning of the name anyway.

That's the funny part. He doesn't get paid to be a shill.

The difference between he and I is this: In the list of the 50 most important thing to happen to me today, this is number 75. To him it's number 1, as you can see.

I don't know what's worse, the fact that he is a complete idiot or he actually thinks people still fall for his multiple usernames.

Probably one of the guys from the "blublood" cult.

Hollywood++

Looks like Warner got a little pocket liner from Sony today.

Looks like I'll be buying a lot more BD titles this year ..... (ugh).

Dave, you don't have to pretend to be four to five different people in this thread, we all knew you would sign in with all your nicks to jump up and down like a little girl.

The only people who will be pissed about this are the rabid HD-DVD fans who refuse to buy a combo or both players. Just like the BD fanboys who limit themselves to certain movies.

Sadly, only about .75% of the people in the world will actually care about the news as average joe doesn't worry about HD formats. The cheap upscaling players were a huge mistake in my opinion. People seem to think they are getting true HD with upscaled standard DVD and avoid BD and HD-DVD all together.

"The only people who will be pissed about this are the rabid HD-DVD fans who refuse to buy a combo or both players."

Exactly. Personally I would prefer HD-DVD to Take a W on this one, but I promise you I am not going to lose any sleep over it. I have both players already, so one of them is going to end up obsolete anyway.

still sticking to your claim that Blu-ray has always been a dead format, and that Warner will be going HD-DVD exclusive @ CES '08?

just curious...

The funny part is you actually think I care about this. We all know you and your imaginary freinds lives are wrapped up in Sony and BD.

The only people that care are the ones with nothing else in thier lives .... like yourself.

What other CES predictions do you have, we are all interested to know...

Who? You and all of your different usernames?

By the way, the CES is for low lifes as it's open to the public, like you. Nothing but a huge flea market atmosphere that anyone can get in to.

Attend a CEDIA show if you don't want to be trampled by idiots and thier kids. No one under the age of 18 is allowed in and it's invitation only ..... oh that's right ... you werent invited.

Boy how different the tune would be if HD-DVD was the winner....

I'm sure you would be screaming foul because you have nothing better to do.

It would be a much different tune. You'd be back to claiming you really don't care which format wins...because you got a Wii.

Hello Davingo$.

Like I've stated before, even if HD-DVD loses I don't feel bad about spending $200. I'm still not buying a PS3 for a blu-ray player though. I'm waiting for those good games.

Your assuming theres a winner. This is simply making this format war go on indefinitely.

i'd get a ps3 if it were unavoidable, like, all my friends hounding me "are you on halo3 yet? no? lame." coupled with prices falling, expendable income, a series of other titles i wanted to play (forza 2, orange box, cnc 3, gears of war, call of duty 4), and a nice tv to warrant it all. with the 360, transformers, and halo it was like the perfect storm.

This is bad news for HD-DVD, in that other studios might consider the same. Sony just have to hope the "uninformed consumer" knows this since they will determine the future of HD players.

If Sony wins the HD battle, I will not buy any HD player, I will stick to streaming media from a HD media player and wait for the next format.

Im quite happy with this right now, since I don't have to burn disks and can even play DivX files from a USB pen or the media player.

No more sony equipment is coming into this household, and any company exclusively supporting it will also lose out.

Besides .. Im happy with DVD right now.

you realize that blu-ray is not purely Sony right?...and im not sure why you would skip out on an entire generation of formats just because its a Sony designed product...you mean to tell me you would rather support the consumer friendly Microsoft?...hmm...enjoy streaming compressed HD media, or weak 720p rips of movies off HDM...while others enjoy uncompressed sound and 1080p high bit-rate video on their blu-ray discs...

if you are happy with DVD then you have not watched a blu-ray or hd-dvd film (with a good transfer) on an HDTV...nobody can honestly tell me that they are even in the same universe picture wise...

I've watched all three, and the difference just isn't worth $400 (nor is it worth an extra $20 per HD or BD disk either).

i agree with the exception of transformers which, admittedly, i am completely gay over. considering im straight, that says a lot.

LOL!

Transformers does look absolutely stunning in HD! King Kong looked pretty good too. The movie just sucked lol.

Haha, I agree completely on both.

Transformers even looked (and sounded) fantastic on regular DVD.

So the format war is now over and Blu-Ray wins. I must admit, i had my doubts when Toshiba had that fire sale, but they must have seen this coming and wanted to unload units which would soon be worthless.

Looks like i will get that PS3 now to compliment the Wii. Can i change my question for that CES contest?

Ask M$: Now that Blu-Ray is the winner, will there be a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360 or will it be the default format for the 720?

see there's that word again. "fire sale"

Considering the problems that Warner has had in the BR release of their 2 biggest releases recently (Harry Potter and Blade Runner box sets), I have to admit that this move is surprising. Maybe there is some truth to the rumor on various insider forums, claiming huge subsidies for non-Sony BR replication losses. Who knows...?

Either way, I'm of the opinion that WB has made a mistake here. Looks like once May rolls around, I'll just be upconverting WB's standard def releases (or import supposed 'BR exclusives' on HD DVD). BR, and its unneccesary excesses, have yet to impress me in the same way that HD DVD has.

The Warner blunders recently on BR releases, were down to the issues supporting 2 formats. These c***ups made the move to a single format even more crucial.

Holiday sales and long-term Blu-ray strategies are what drove Warner, nothing else..

come on...did Warner hurt your feelings...the writing has been on the wall since the Transformers exclusive release couldn't win ONE SINGLE WEEK for HD-DVD in total sales...

its not anyone's fault but your own that you didn't see this coming....

i don't know why you wouldn't just buy a BD player and enjoy the picture quality...upconverted DVD is not in the same universe as blu-ray (or HD-DVD for that matter)....

how is this a mistake for Warner? blu-ray already had more exclusive studios...and was outselling HD-DVD every week in total sales...

Despite what you choose to believe, I own both formats (therefore, I have supported both to some degree). Of the BR movies I own, exactly one has hit me with the 'WOW' factor that HD DVD releases have. BR's interactivity (with the exception of the one profile 1.1 release) has been...stunted...at best, offering little more than a standard dvd, by way of extras.

I would rather upconvert than invest heavily in BR for my own reasons; the short version, though, is that BR has yet to prove itself to me, in the way that HD DVD has. Sony's business practices on the whole (rootkits, patents to lock discs to players, exploding hardware, general arrogance, etc.) play a big part in the decision.

It's a mistake for Warner because:
A) They're banking on a video game console to be the big decision maker in this war.
B) BR is still, over 18 months on the market, an unfinished product. Profile 1.0 players are effectively obsolete, and with profile 2.0 slated for release in '08, the 1.1 players follow suit.

My issues are not with Warner, here; in fact, far from it. My issues are with the format that they have chosen.

Waitaminute...are you actually implying that the incorrectly labeled disc in the Blade Runner set (BR) is due to them supporting HD DVD? That particular 'c*** up' is due to someone falling asleep at the switch, not their support of 2 formats. If it were, there would have been issues with the same releases in HD DVD. How does the multi-format support explain the need for Warner to recall Terminator 3 on BR, due to glitches. The fact here is quite plain: Warner has had problems QA problems, in regards to BR releases; while their HD DVD releases have been fairly smooth.

That arguement is even more moot, when you consider Disney's disc replacement for Pirates of the Caribbean Curse of the Black Pearl.

Which long term strategy is the one that's convincing for BR? The one that requires a games console to carry it on it's back? Or is it the one that causes consumers to buy a new player, each time they want to add a feature that HD DVD has had since day one?

Obviously, Warner is following the money...all businesses do. The question is: was there a payout (similar to what the smurfs cried when P/DW went HD DVD)? Without an official comment, there's no real way to know.

Hear Hear.

I'm not cheap but I don't want to waste money...sure I'd love to go out and throw down 300 for a Hi Def. player but I don't want to do this and then boom, end up with something that's old before it's even new. Blu-Ray is shaping up, just like most Sony devices to be a money leech. If every player out now is able to be upgraded for free for years and years to come, then fine - but I have a feeling it won't be that way. Eventually there'll be 1.1 players that can't be upgraded to profile 3.0 and 1.0 that can't be upgraded to 2.0....you get my drift. Granted, we all understand that technology evolves. But for goodness sake, all I want to do is play my dvds.
Essentially, if this stays on the current track, you'll have to spend 200+ every couple years to get a Blu-Ray player that works well with current-gen DVDs, and this is what I'm worried about. Right now, you can get a $30 or a $500 player that plays ALL DVDs, in a few years you're going to have Blu-Ray players that may play older dvds, but can't play newer stuff because of this profile business....and studios will have a hold on the consumer market because of that.

I'm holding out for a Hybrid Player for sure - but even then I'm not safe am I?

My point, exactly.

We're not talking things similar in nature to DVD's upgrades (increased compatibility with burned discs and so on). Many times, firmware upgrades were available to those who wished to apply them (except on the considerably older players). BR's current time-table is one that requires changes to the physical hardware (adding hardware at this point), in order to be compliant with each new set of specs.

I've said it before...when BR matures to a similar point that HD DVD has been at since DAY ONE, maybe I'll spend money on it again (after all, my PS3 isn't going anywhere for awhile).

A hybrid player SHOULD be a safe bet (in theory). If it's fully HD DVD compliant, it will have the secondary audio and video decoders, as well as a built in ethernet port. I have no idea if there is a way to allow the BR side to utilize these bits of hardware, though...

quote By pridewalker

posted Jan 4, 2008 - 6:45 PM

"Considering the problems that Warner has had in the BR release of their 2 biggest releases recently (Harry Potter and Blade Runner box sets), I have to admit that this move is surprising. Maybe there is some truth to the rumor on various insider forums, claiming huge subsidies for non-Sony BR replication losses. Who knows...?

Either way, I'm of the opinion that WB has made a mistake here. Looks like once May rolls around, I'll just be upconverting WB's standard def releases (or import supposed 'BR exclusives' on HD DVD). BR, and its unneccesary excesses, have yet to impress me in the same way that HD DVD has."

I am right there with you I plan on doing the same. I may buy a dual format player when they become affordable. Sony can kiss my A^^ and with xbox360 selling 4 million + consoles over the Christmas rush 17+ million total.
I hate Sony I have been burnt in the past buying their junk and will not support them.
I will take the greedy side of MS over the deceiving side of Sony.

I'm confused. If WB is trying to avoid confusion, shouldn't they go with HD DVD since that is the successor to DVD?

well...thats not really the case anyways...but there has really been no confusing which format has performed better....HD-DVD has continually SLASHED prices and yet week and week, month after month Blu-ray still outsells HD-DVD...

Although HD DVD is backed by the DVD Forum, it isn't an official successor -- that's why Sony developed Blu-ray.

But you're right, supporting only one format means an even more fractured market, which will lead to more confusion. Before, buyers could choose Warner movies in both HD DVD or Blu-ray. Now they can't.

Not to mention that Blu-ray has no combo discs (DVD on one side), which is going to greatly hinder adoption of any HD format.

wow, now the HD format "war" will never end

why do you say that?...Blu-ray already was selling more movies...already had more exclusive studios...already had the best selling player...now has the largest studio in the business...

sounds to me like the format war is closer to being over than ever...

i just have a feeling this "war" will not end for any foreseeable future

LOL...

http://img229.imageshack...29/2696/95664155si2.png

:::looks around for Hollywood:::

there is no longer an argument really...with this announcement from Warner, and the rumors of Apple going blu at Mac World this year....Blu-ray already having exclusive support from major players like Disney/Pixar, Fox, and Sony....also the majority of the PC market....blu-ray was continuing to grow its sales lead over HD-DVD, even the two "blockbuster" HD-DVD exclusives (Transformers and the Bourne Films) could not get HD-DVD a single week of beating blu-ray in total sales...

I can only imagine that Paramount/Dreamworks, and Universal sees the writing on the wall....its only a matter of time now before Universal goes at LEAST neutral...and I can only imagine that Paramount's exclusivity contract will not be renewed...

If you think HD DVD is just going to pack up shop and go home, you are sorely mistaken. Way too much money has been spent on this, and they aren't just going to walk away, even without Warner. Plus, consumers are still buying HD DVD players.

If anything, Warner's move has simply prolonged the "war" by going from supporting both to supporting one.

Mac's announcement isn't really as big a deal as people would have you believe. Exactly how much of the home computer market do they have again?

apple just goes with anything non-microsoft. that isnt a deciding factor on anything.

there is ZERO need to use a controller to use your PS3 for movies....Sony has a bluetooth Blu-ray remote that can be had for less than $20 with some looking and it works GREAT (the only thing i would change is having back lit keys but it more than gets the job done)...not to mention the PS3 works just fine with any universal IR remote if you buy a USB IR adapter which are not very expensive anyways....

the only real drawback to using the IR remotes on your PS3 is that so far none of the IR universal remotes have been able to power on and off the PS3...not a huge deal really considering you have to get up to put the disc in and take it out...you can always turn it on/off while you are up there...

Now it's obvious why those hddvd players were selling for $99 at walmart. People need to learn to make smart, informed buying decisions, not just buying something based on being cheap

Yep, it was indeed a fire sale..

you're like 50% of the accounts on this site. can't you give it a rest for a while?

see, there's that word again. "fire sale"

Studios can clearly see where the sales are. so how long before Universal go dual format, or Blu-ray exclusive???

Not very long, I suspect...

That leaves just poor old Paramount/Dreamworks, with perhaps the worst deal imaginable. I hope that $150million was worth it..

And then prices for Blu-ray movies will go back to $35 (since competition will be gone) and consumers will be forced to buy a $400 video game console to play their movies.

Yay for consumers getting the shaft!

The prices of players and movies will continue to drop, as they did with DVD players, perhaps not as fast, but they won't go up. It's the only way to achieve mass-market adoption.

The lack of understanding of basic economics here astounds me..

Basic economics:

$100 player vs. $400 player. Which is better for consumers and widespread adoption?

MSRP for movies, both Blu-ray and HD DVD are still $34.95. They are being deeply discounted now, but that won't necessarily continue. Surely the "buy a player and get 10 movies" deals will end if there's no competition.

Basic economics:

$100 player vs. $400 player, both of which cost $400 to produce

Which is the only viable long-term plan...

The reason Toshiba are alone in the HD DVD camp, as their insane price dumping of HD DVD players.

PS. You can't actually buy a $99 player anymore, it was a one weekend fire-sale..

The Sony PS3 costs as much to produce as a basic HD DVD player?

Hah.

Who was talking about PS3? I was referring to standalone Blu and standalone HD DVD. The component cost will be very similar. Only one is dumping prices, and that is not a long-term viable buisness plan.

Nate, I couldn't have said it better.

The official Warner press release:

http://www.timewarner.co...0,20812,1700383,00.html

I wanted the format wars to just be over, and at first I wanted Blu-Ray to win, but now I'm not so sure. I think the prices will come down with a clear winner, maybe not with less competition, but because of mass format adoption, so I'm not worried about price. And I liked Blu-Ray because cheap 50 gig writeable media would be nice. But hard drives are getting so large and cheap I'm not too worried about that now. But I do get a lot of foreign movies, and my DVD player now is region free, which looks like a problem with Blu-Ray as opposed to HD-DVD, which had done away with regions. And backup stuff would be more difficult (check the 1/3/08 news on Doom9.net), which is probably not an issue for most people, but I pay attention to it in the same way as DRM - what rights are you going to have with your own media? Sony isn't exactly a company I trust, so I'm curious what's going to happen in the future with Blu-Ray if they are given a victory before that sort of thing has been finalized.

BLAH! Who cares.

This sucks...plain and simple. I for one believe Warner just made a huge mistake.

Why? Because you own a HD DVD player, or because you hate Sony?

Warner looked at sales through the holiday season, they looked at hardware manufacturer and industry support, and can see Blu is the only viable way forward for single format support.

Are you saying you know more than the Warner camp?

Warner made their decision based on a big payout from Sony. You're right in that only consumers are getting screwed here (less choice, forced to buy more expensive players).

Evidence to back this up? Yep you have none...

Every single one of these studios made their decisions based on money, not what's in the best interest for consumers. Revenues are the bottom line, everything else is secondary. The same is true for Universal and Paramount on the HD DVD side.

But yes, many sources are reporting a payout was involved, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional :)

Links?

More likely sour grapes, as HD DVD did have to buy their exclusivity...

"More likely sour grapes, as HD DVD did have to buy their exclusivity..."

Links?

wrong on both accounts...

http://www.engadgethd.co...son-why-warner-went-blu/

On your second point...no one is forcing you to buy anything. If you hate Blu-Ray so much, don't buy it.

DVD players were very expensive when they first came out, but now look how cheap they are. Same with the movies.

"Same with the movies."

New releases are still being sold for $20-$25 these days. They are not offering much more than they did almost 10 years ago, and the digital transfers are easier and taking less time to get from theaters to retail shelves. There is no reason for new standard-definition DVDs to be the same price or only slightly cheaper than most of the current high-def releases.

Oh, and regarding the article:

We closed the call with the most pertinent question of all, "Where's the Matrix on Blu-ray?" to which the answer was, as soon as they work out the details of BD Java and PIP.

That means in probably a year or two. :)

Aww, what's wrong? You don't like someone else playing your game?

We are still waiting...

yes HD-DVD still has Paramount and Universal...but how long can those studios honestly hold out considering that easily the largest studio just jumped ship...

awesome! thank you warner for doing the right thing

biggest question is they've obvously known there decision for a while now so why are the speaking at the hd-dvd conference??? also really crappy timing since i just bought about 20 of there disc's after they made there last statement about staying nuetral...

You're right, there's going to be a lot of pissed off consumers here. Picking one side doesn't stop confusion, it just further fractures the market.

HD DVD isn't going to pack up and go home folks, which means we're just in it for the long haul. Hopefully a lot more hybrid players debut at CES, or else Warner only further delayed adoption, not sped it up.

"t bought about 20 of there disc's after they made there last statement about staying nuetral..."

I think you answered your own question. If they hinted at Blu exclusivity before Xmas, their HD DVD sales would have stalled. They milked it whils they could, as any company would do. Clear the shelves of HD DVD.

Who in their right mind would buy HD DVD versions of movies on both formats now?

Who in their right mind would buy HD DVD versions of movies on both formats now?

People that have or want to buy a $99 HD DVD player as opposed to a $400 video game console, that's who :)

Who in their right mind would buy HD DVD versions of movies on both formats now?

People who know there is no visual/audible difference when viewing the two formats and don't want dust left in their wallet.

exactly my point i have around $600 invested in hd-dvd if i had done that with blu i would have almost no movies... again i'm not dedicated to hd-dvd i just like hidef and i got in cheap it just pisses me off that they went out of there way to convince everyone they were staying nuetral so i went ahead with buying movies.

Thank you Warner. Now lets all move on.

The format war is finally over.

I feel sorry for those that wasted $99 on Walmart players, but hey, it's only $99.

I bet Hollywood is eating his words right now, as for the past 2 months, has been proclaiming HD DVD selling better, and Warner going HD DVD exclusive.

http://img227.imageshack...7/6940/tombstoneav0.jpg

I am really tempted to get a blue ray player now, unless you guys can give me a reason not to.

I am a HD DVD fan but I think that this is to harsh of a blow to recover from.

if you are really looking for a BD player I have to suggest the PS3 as your best option...it is a solid unit (still quality wise near the tops in quality) and it has already shown to except profile updates through firmware to use all the newest features....and the 40GB is only $399 now plus you get the ability to play PS3 games....

the only real downside to the PS3 as a blu-ray player is it cant pass DTS HD Master audio...

Would agree, PS3 is easilly the best option right now, the DTS-MA thing will be addressed via firmware update at some time, although it's hardly a pressing issue. I have 15 or so movies, and not had any issues with not havng DTS-MA support, the uncompressed 7.1 support is better anyway.

Honestly, it's kind of sad that the "best option" for a Blu-ray player right now requires you to use a controller to manually navigate and load up something called "BD-ROM." I would never buy a PS3 as my dedicated Blu-ray player, unless I also wanted to play games on it. It wasn't designed around movies.

I'm hoping prices for Blu-ray players drop like everyone else, but at the moment, consumers are the losers.

Well, consumers just lost here. Less choice, and less competition. Too bad for HD DVD owners, and too bad for those who haven't yet jumped on board. HDi is vastly superior to BDJ, and HD DVD already had Internet connectivity and better extra features.

Not to mention that Blu-ray doesn't have combo discs like HD DVD does. I, for one, don't plan to upgrade every player in my house to HD, and would like to be able to loan movies to friends. Too bad.

"HDi is vastly superior to BDJ"

How exactly?

HDi is scripting, and quite basic. BD-J is full Java support.

The only thing "good" about HDi, is ease of development, but it's pretty limited in what it can do. BD-J is vastly superior technically, and whilst few are currently taking full advantage of it's features, that will change, as studios get to grips with it.

Also, now HD DVD is finally in it's coffin, developers only have one platform to code for, and thus spending more time on BD-J and better functionality.

Have you actually used BDJ and compared it to HDi? HDi is vastly superior to use and very quick. Sure, we can hope the studios take the time to learn BDJ and that players speed up, but that hasn't happened yet.

I hope they do start spending the time, because the extras and interfaces on Blu-ray discs have been horrid so far. But that's still up in the air if they will.

It hasn't happend yet, as HD formats were stalling due to having to formats to split resources.

In a Blu only world, with quicker adoption, studios will dedicate bigger teams to the Interactivity aspects of Blu.

HD-DVD is dead....

that is all that needs to be said....

oh and Hollywood....I told you so....

I'm just going to leave it at that....no need for any flaming....

HD DVD still has Universal and Paramount. It's not over yet, although this is just going to further fracture the market.

Paramount are tied in for another 12 months. Nobody is sure of the Universal deal, but they must be itching to get some Blu action right now.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Universal announce going format neutral in the next week, if their contract allows.

That just leaves poor old Paramount as the lone player, missing out on all the fun.

Yeah, but didn't M$ write them a check for like $150 million? that was more money than they would have made even supporting both formats at this time.

Blu-ray will be everywhere in 12 months and Paramount will say goodbye to HD-DVD and be Blu-Ray exclusive.

Folks, I'm going to say this before it even starts. Keep the discussion civil.

Does anyone think that Warner picked one side because the whole point of the whole thing is to sell movies and the format war has only driven down hardware sales and movie sales. I mean what would be be the point to have blu-ray win and we are already at a $10 (BOGO) price point. If they go back to MSRP very few people will buy. I hope it goes on just a little bit longer. I have 2 HD DVD players and the PS3 was almost to the point I was willing to pay for one.

Ed,

Do you have the ability to find out the IP address of each user / nick?

This is plain and simple economics...

Facts:
1) DVD sales tanked over Christmas this year and 2007 as a whole
http://www.alleyinsider....sales-drop-in-2007.html
http://blogs.moneycentra...wood-make-a-profit.aspx

2) Warner owns the biggest market share of DVD sales. Which means all things being equal they took the biggest hit in 2007.
http://www.highdefdigest...or_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327

3)Blu ray movies are out selling HD DVD movies almost 2 to 1.
http://www.engadgethd.co...or-week-ending-december/

Warner has no choice but to go with Blu ray and end the format war now. Sales of DVDs (which are almost pure profit) are declining rapidly. Even though the new HD format disks sell for 3x to 4x those of regular DVDs, the volume is not high enough to offset the decline in DVD sales.

Time-Warner stock (TWX) dropped 25% in 2007 and you can bet there is enormous pressure on management to turn things around in 2008. The following line if from the Q3 10-Q

"The sale of DVDs has been one of the largest drivers of the segment’s profit over the last several years, and Warner Bros.’ extensive library of theatrical and television titles positions it to continue to benefit from sales of home video product to consumers. However, the industry and the Company have experienced a leveling of DVD sales due to several factors, including increasing competition for consumer discretionary spending, piracy, the maturation of the standard definition DVD format and the fragmentation of consumer time"

You don't put lines like that above in SEC financial documents unless there is a very serious problem.

So pretend you are the head of Warner Home Entertainment (WHE) and you just received your year end sales numbers and they suck big-time. If the format war does not end now, you risk having a very, very bad 2008 financially. How long are you willing to bet your career and your 7-figure compensation package that the hardware format war (which you don't have a direct stake in) comes to conclusion on it's own? From your standpoint you don't give a s*** who wins, but someone needs to win NOW! You can't afford another year of stalemate. So, you are left with no choice, you go with the team that is selling more media, and that's Blu ray.

And that's all there is to it....