RSSWarner Files for Hybrid HD Disc Patent
by Scott M. Fulton, III
In December 2005, three optical disc engineers now identified as working for Warner Bros. began work on a U.S. patent application for a three-layer optical disc, which would be capable of being adapted to any of 22 different configurations. One enables a hybrid DVD / HD DVD or DVD / Blu-ray configuration, and another would allow for a hybrid HD DVD / Blu-ray disc.
The patent application, dated August 10, 2006, may have used the strongest language put forth by a representative of a major studio against the notion that either format would ever win the high-definition format war.
"From the standpoint of a manufacturer," the application continues, "it is disadvantageous to have to manufacture and distribute three different types of disc formats to satisfy consumer demand for one product - such as a motion picture. Moreover, multiple formats of DVD discs create retail and consumer confusion as to which format(s) to acquire or buy."
If these engineers truly speak for their company -- as they are legally obliged to do with regard to a patent of this nature -- then it's no wonder that Warner made the decision in October 2005 to support not just HD DVD but Blu-ray as well.
The basic theory put forth by the patent application is that a hybrid disc could be assembled in a wide variety of ways, in which as many as three layers are stacked atop one another, with their reflective surfaces protected inside. Once a hybrid disc player is able to determine the assembly of the disc, it can adjust the lenses as necessary to guide the red or blue-indigo laser beam to point to the appropriate depth.
The application appears to make the case that the layers themselves can be used to minimize attenuation of the beam as it makes its way to the appropriate reflective layer. Layers don't need to be 100% reflective to be effective - a dual-layer BD disc, it says, can be as low as 12% reflective and still be adequate.
The degree to which any layer is not reflective is precisely the amount that it enables light to pass through - what optics calls transmissivity. With the proper arrangements, the application says, the transmissive properties of layers designed for multi-layer discs can be exploited to the hybrid disc's advantage.
One problem, which the application briefly touched upon, may be that some configurations of Warner's hybrid disc might only be applicable to hybrid disc players capable of adjusting their lenses to the proscribed depths. But if such a player were standardized, it could enable studios to produce a single type of disc for both current and next-generation content.
The hybrid disc itself could be the norm, it states; even a disc designed for high-def content only could contain "boilerplate" messages on the DVD layer, instructing the user that this disc can't be viewed with standard DVD players.
While the application was recently discovered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office database, it has not yet been granted, and may not be granted for some time even if it's put on "fast-track" status. The biggest hurdle facing Warner engineers now may be from Toshiba, which appears to be ready to actually produce a three-layer hybrid disc in a joint venture with Memory-Tech, but only for HD DVD and standard DVD content.
34 Comments
Why buy movies on disk when you can just pay & download them instantly and store hundreds off movies on your soon to be terabyte HDD's in the not very distant future.
Movie stores will soon be obsolete in 1st world countries that have high speed net access, the thing you'll have to worry about is not what media player you have, but will it support the stupid DRM systems that keep appearing to stop you doing what you want with what you've bought.
eg. My drive can play every media in the world, but it doesnt support that new DRM from [COMPANY] so that movie I just paid to download does'nt play!
or
I just corrupted my security key file on my HDD, so now I cant play any of the movies I paid for!
or
The company that invented my DRM has just gone bankrupt and I corrupted my key file, so every movie I paid for in the last 5 years can never be played again because I can't get a new key to play them!
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Toshiba's hybrid HDDVD/DVD idea is really good since consumers can buy new movies on HD-DVD even if they don't have an HD player yet and be able to play them on their old DVD player. Warner's idea I'm not so sure about, sounds like they are on the fence and trying to hedge their bets by supporting both formats on one disc. That way no matter which one fails they still win.
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I'm sure Blockbuster and alike would be happy to see this. Could you imagine them trying to split shelf space into Blu-Ray and HD-DVD not to mention the mess it would be for consumers who pick up the wrong disk and dont under why the Blu-Ray High Definition DVD player they just spent a fortune on wont play a HD-DVD. This is perfect in the sense that it takes the confusion out of it for Joe and Jane consumer.
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That assume the premium for these disc is reasonable. If this hybrid disc has too high a premium over a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disc it won't catch on. It would be a better scenario if there was only one HD disc standard. With any luck within 3-4 years that will happen.
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I agree, however in the past it has taken Sony a few years to realise it when no one likes their propriatary formats. (Betamax, MiniDisc, Memory Stick, UMB etc) Blu-Ray will go the way of the Memory Stick I believe...Sony will continue to use it in their designs (so as not to admit defeat)...and everyone else will use the industry standard.
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I can picture someday in the future when we can store terabytes on objects smaller than our thumbnails. Then you'll sneeze and blow away years of work, medical records, program code, movie clips, etc. Sounds like Zoolander or something. We're only seeing the birth of this stuff.
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speaking of which ... just what i needed: Zoolander in three formats on one piece of media!
ugh ... sometimes competition fails consumers miserably.
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So giving consumers the ability to buy one disc that will work on any player is failing them. Come on now...
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Hey, when is Betanews gonna actually implement the scoring system? I mean I have had to look at that Score: 0 junk for like a year or more now and...I mean what is the use in having it if you don't even use it?
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That's a good question.
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they use it to rate negatively mostly (so you don't see the negative posts). occasionaly you'll see somebody get a score of 1 but it's nothing like what slashdot does with the highlighting of the 5s, 4s and the glavin.
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Or more fundamentally, when will Betanews cease to simply repost the Slashdot news forum entries 2-3 days after Slashdot does...
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We already have a similar setup with Dual-Discs which contain CD data on one side, and DVD on the other side. It's not a very novel concept. I think that Warner's attempt to patent the concept of printing different media on different layers or different sides of the same disc is a little silly... let's see if they win!
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This is different though, it isn't going to be on different sides of the disc. It will be a single sided disc with the hybrid format on the third layer. Toshiba is using it to make HD-DVD/DVD discs on a single side for example.
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How would 7 layer 200GB Blu-Ray disks work with this? The answer, in all likelyhood, is it won't. It would be standard 25GB Blu-Ray, what a waste of time.
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Since when does a movie need 200GB?
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Next Peter Jackson's movie ? ;)
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If it was anything like the vapid worthlessness of King Kong...I'll pass...
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The question is not "Since when" but "When will"
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Especially if he's tapped to create Harry Potter 7, which will probably be 10k pages long translated into a movie with three intermissions...haha.
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Sounds better than the hackjob that was Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban...it had to be one of the least competently edited films I have ever seen.
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They are waisting their time...
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Why is it a waste of time to have a disc that has a movie in more than one format?
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Because it will cost a lot of money and will have no benefits.
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This will ultimately benefit the consumer for we wouldn’t have to choose whether to get DVD or HD or Blu Ray or whatever else proprietary format they can think of to.
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You're wrong, being able to buy a hybrid disc that works on a number of different players is a benefit for consumers.
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Only when there are no compromises.
I doubt this is without compromise....
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Let's look at Toshiba's hybrid disc. A regular dual layer HD-DVD just like any other, with a third regular DVD compatible layer that will play on a standard DVD player. Where is the compromise?
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These discs are single layer. This is "-". BD have 50GB and in the future (when those discs will be available) 100GB and 200GB space. Why not just record the whole HD DVD version on the same disc? On the blu-ray disc. Blu ray discs at that time will fit 3-7 HD DVDs. Yes, the one with the so payed tribute to VC-1, 1080i, no Dolby sound etc. The user just will have to run the next track on the disc then.
Problem solved.
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Why someone who have a HD version will need a DVD version too and that for extra $$$. People are no fools man.
at the time when this "Hybrid" see light, there will no longer be used DVDs.
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ahhh... how about someone who has DVD right now but thinks of upgrading little later and doesn't want to buy his favorite flick again ??? or maybe loan it to his parents/GF that dont have Hidef system???
hmmm, now why would anyone do that...
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interoperability is sertanly not a benefit, i see...
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It's not meant for extra cost, it's meant for consumer sanity. Let's use this example:
1. Consumer has DVD burner.
2. Consumer goes to computer store to buy writable media.
3. Consumer, not knowing any better, buys DVD +R discs instead of DVD-R discs
4. Consumer doesn't know this until he gets home.
5. Consumer has to go back to said store to get the right format, rightly aggrivated by the whole experience.
Now, considering that example, and knowing that only a small percentage of the population of this country actually even know what format their DVD burner uses, don't you think having one disc with 3 formats on it works out for everyone? It cuts confusion around "If I have a BluRay DVD, what kind of disc do I need to buy?". Believe me, if you want any kind of adoption of new technology, that technology has to be made to be more useable by more people. I know that my 60 year old parents aren't going to rush out and get a new HD-DVD or BluRay player because they won't understand the technology until it is explained to them. Add to that the fact that they have to remember what kind of player they have at home and you have an instant reason for them not to want the new technology simply because it doesn't "just work without having to think too much about it".
In addition, the additional cost savings that the manufacturer would save by not having to press 3 different versions of discs *might* (saying that with baited breath!) be passed onto consumers.
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edit- wrong post :)
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