wow, while i agree that the "console war" is a silly concept...this "article" is hilarious....

this place is the ultimate spin machine...the 360 gets BLASTED in sales so they spin away to say there is no war...if it was the PS3 getting slammed the tone of the article would surely be different...i mean the 360 only outsold the PS2 by 30k units!....spin away BetaNews...

also there is a severe lack of basic knowledge surrounding the video game industry going on here...

about MS' profits...yes they are now turning a profit...but it took them 2+ years to do it...and its going to take them ALONG time to make up the losses that they have already taken hits on (1 billion plus for the RROD fiasco?) the PS3 will turn a profit just like the 360 does now...

we also must remember that MS NEVER turned a profit on the original xbox in all the time it was out...they never made a single penny and lost A LOT of them their first go around...

we also must remember that the 360 is MS only console...therefore early profits are MUCH more important for MS considering that Sony has the PSP and PS2 still selling SO well to help lessen the load of losses on the PS3...MS does not have this luxury...

the Final Fantasy thing is also rather interesting...and it is a big loss of an exclusive for Sony...i don't know how much of a real impact it will have...and that is for a couple of reasons....this game is near vapor ware as far as im concerned...im not sure it is even running on PS3 hardware yet...so its a LONG ways off...im thinking 2010 at the earliest...now...as part of the "deal" the game is staying PS3 exclusive in Japan...which is where this game will sell the best anyways...AND Japan is getting the game first on the PS3...THEN it will be ported to the 360 and then released at the same time as the PS3 version in the US....so im not sure how big this is really going to turn out for MS...but it is a plus regardless...

i also love this one by Brian whatever down there...

"and since Sony doesn't have the same reliable properties that Nintendo and to a lesser extent Microsoft does"

HAHA...so you mean Sony the company that revolutionized the console industry with the Playstation...and then has the best selling console of ALL TIME (the PS2) does not have the same "reliable properties" as MS whom pulled the plug on the original xbox just to beat sony to the next gen game...AND rushed the 360 to market with all its hardware issues???...lets be real now...i love my 360, but to knock Sony in this sense is insane...

No, it's not insane. Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros., Metroid, and few others that I've forgotten. Microsoft at least has Halo. Playstation USED to have GTA, but those days are long gone, as we saw a few months ago. Like it or not, exclusives sell systems. That's the way it's always been, and that's the way it will always be.

And no, a console that sold boatloads is not by itself a "reliable property." Sony's most reliable property right now is the brand "Playstation" and we can all see how well that's doing right now.

What you also must remember about MS is they have a LOT more cash to back themselves and can afford to have a longer time before a profit has been made.

Lets also remember that this is only MS's 2nd entry into the console area.

I can't speak to the Author, but as far as the reliable properties - I think they might be referring to (in MS case) all their other units that make tremendous profit. Also with Nintendo, they have always made a profit.

With Sony, their biggest profits come from their gaming division. The difference between them and Nintendo is that Nintendo starts with a profit, so its more of a guarantee that if it sells they will profit. Not quite the same for Sony.

Anyway, I think there is a bit of a console war, but I don't think it's as simple as who's got the most sales. MS certainly has shown they are a player and Nintendo has also shown they can compete big time.

HAHA!...

its funny that you say exclusives sell systems...yet the PS3 has been outselling the 360 without any big exclusives (like you say) worldwide since it was launched...explain that one away my friend??

Sony has Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid (moved over a million units in the month of June), Ratchet and Clank, Resistance, Killzone, Little Big Planet...and others...

you act like MS has some uber list of exclusives...Halo and Gears...what else that is any good? Crackdown?

but my question still holds true...if Sony has no big exclusives...and exclusives sell consoles...how has Sony outsold MS worldwide since launch??....

oh and the Playstation name is doing just fine...the PS3 and PSP are both outselling anything MS has to offer AND their OLD console was only outsold by the 360 by 30k units in June...you might want to re-think your arguments...or do some research before posting...

this is true...and yes MS has the ability to absorb more of a loss because of their other divisions (windows anyone? lol) but the fact holds true...MS didn't get where they are by keeping around products that lose money consistently...im glad they are now turning a profit...because i feared that if they ended up with another xbox1 on their hands and never made a profit that they would dump the console division altogether...it all goes back to their early move to market with the 360...i think we are starting to see now that the 360 would have never been able to compete head to head with the Wii and PS3 if they all launched at the same time...argue all you want but the fact remains...since the day of the PS3 launch it has outsold the 360 WORLDWIDE (note: not in America, but worldwide)...by MS made the smart move to grab as much market share as they could...hopefully for them this pays off in the next generation and they do not need to rush the console to market and they will have enough carry over market share from the 360....

Just check this website: http://www.vgchartz.com/

That should tell you all you need to know. Sony hasn't outsold anyone since their launch.

On that note, Metal Gear Solid is a PS3 exclusive...for now. Let's not forget that both the Xbox and the Gamecube have both had some version of Metal Gear Solid or one of its sequels in some way, shape, or form. That's because MGS isn't a Sony property, but a KONAMI property, and last time I checked, Konami can make games for any consoles that it damn well pleases. And that is exactly what it does.

As far as system sales go, the PSP is getting beaten worldwide by the DS, and the PS3 is still a distant third worldwide.

Every man is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. You may want to keep that in mind for next time "my friend."

Fanboy rhetoric and illusrious past claims mean little to the financial world of business.

Perhaps all of the principal developers and section heads at Sony who have been unceremoniously jettisoned in the last year should have reminded Sony of their past successes.

Oh, and I can only imagine their reversal of fortune had they only had the insight to say "But look at MS!" LOL!

After all, nothing obscures reality like wallowing in past glory while the ship fills with water.

Take a break from playing games and take a business course.

Yah thats right. The pos2 wasnt that reliable as the original xbox.

The original PS and PS2 were the least reliable consoles ever made, followed by the 360. I haven't heard anything about Wii's or very many PS3 go bad unless Sony bricked them with an update.

Every PS1 and PS2 I owned went bad within a year or two. I think I ended up having a total of three PS1's and three PS2's total. They were and still are complete junk.

Luckily for them, I'm the kind of person who simply buys a new one when they break, like I was going to do with my 360. Except MS came through for me in a matter of days with a new console and $100 worth of free extras (12+1 Live card and a free Elite wireless controller).

I never owned a regular XBOX but I know they had a lot of problems.

I have had my original xbox since launch and have never had an issue with it. My friend kicked his as hard as he could and it still worked perfectly. I havent met a single person whose original xbox failed, although I have heard that they have had a few issues, nowhere near to the extent of the PS and PS2.

EDIT: I am jealous of your free goodies as I only got a free 1 month live card.

vgchartz proves nothing...first of all they are estimates...and i have said SINCE LAUNCH...remember idiot that the 360 was on the market for over a year before the PS3....

so let me re-phrase it for you...

since the PS3 has launched...it has outsold the 360 worldwide...this is 100% pure undeniable FACT...

First, VGChartz proves a whole hell of lot. EVERYTHING is an estimate; that's the whole point. But unlike your "estimates" that come from your own mind, that site gets its estimates from...well, y'know...reality. Reality is awesome; you should look into it.

Second, that website tracks sales since launch. Unless you think that the Wii has sold over 29 million units this year alone.

Third, you are bad at reading. Let me re-phrase it for you: bigger numbers are bigger than smaller numbers. The number of Xbox 360s sold worldwide is bigger than the number of PS3s worldwide. Therefore, the Xbox has outsold the 360 worldwide. And it doesn't matter that the XBox 360 has been around, longer, it has still outsold the PS3 worldwide. I'd tell you to go back and look at the numbers again, but you screwed it up last time, so...

Fourth, that website is good enough for Forbes and the New York Times, so it's gonna have to be good enough for you...especially since you don't even have an "estimate" of your own to back up your argument.

Now go to bed, before your parents wake up and ground you for staying up past your bedtime embarassing yourself on the internet.

but you're an idiot...that is the problem...it certainly does matter that the 360 has been out a year longer...because it shows how the consoles have done head to head....

using your beloved vgchartz lets take a look...

Xbox 360...
launched: Nov. 22, 2005 (NA)
Consoles sold to date: 19.72 million
Total Days on the market: 971 (according to http://www.csgnetwork.co...ountdaysfromtocalc.html)
Consoles sold per day: 20,309
PS3
launched: Nov. 11, 2006 (Japan), March 23, 2007 (PAL)
Consoles sold to date: 14.27 million
Total Days on the market: 617 (same source)
Consoles sold per day: 23,128

Yes, in flat out sales numbers the 360 has sold more...but that is obviously a skewed statistic because the 360 was out for a year longer than the PS3 (a year and a half in Europe!)...

the interesting stat is how well the consoles have sold head to head...and that can only start when they are both on the market...

the 360 has a sales lead of roughly 5.5 million consoles...considering the 354 day head start that MS had on Sony...that is a pretty low number...

throw in the fact that MS has a sales lead of just 650,000 in the "other region" category and they had a year and a half head start there and things start to look even better for the PS3...

what are the facts of the console war sales numbers...

Fact: MS has higher TOTAL sales than Sony
Fact: MS outsold Sony from November 06 to November 07
Fact: MS outsold Sony in calendar year 2006
Fact: Sony outsold MS in Calendar year 2007
Fact: Sony has outsold MS in total sales since November of 2006
Fact: Sony has outsold MS so far in 2008

when compared fairly...meaning when both consoles were on the market at the same time...the Playstation 3 has had higher WORLDWIDE SALES than the Microsoft XBOX 360...simple...

Yes, in flat out sales numbers the 360 has sold more...
=================================================

So you agree? Finally. That took long enough.

Now go to bed, Junior. You and your mom need to hit those back to school sales early. Once school starts, you should sign up for AP economics. Then you'll know what the Hell you're talking about!

haha...you're just a moron...

i never debated that fact...but you failed so hard at reading comprehension you thought i did...

my argument is since the launch of the PS3, it has outsold the xbox 360...and as sales of the PS3 are continuing to grow...the 360 has slowed...

the PS3 will surpass the 360 in worldwide sales...

"the PS3 will surpass the 360 in worldwide sales..."

Who cares. If you like a system then buy it already. You really have your boxers in a bunch about something that most people could give two s***ts about.

Whether there is actually a console war or not, all this competition to put out better stuff is awesome. The upcoming Rock Band 2 vs Guitar Hero 4 is an example...I doubt either would be as good if they weren't worried about the others market share.

Wouldn't they be even more "awesome" if they ACTUALLY taught you a useful skill for all of the time invested - like actually learning the fretboard and chord structures and learning, ok, wait for it... how to play the guitar! - instead of how to imaginatively posture as you learn how to push one or more of 6 buttons playing air guitar...

What a COMPLETE waste of a real opportunity and technology. We need more R&D to produce processors capable of that crap!

Its called a game - its fun.

As Steven Tyler said, its more to get guitar players into gaming then it is to get gamers to play the guitar.

LOL! Its nice to see them targeting the MASS market - the subset of guitarists who want to pretend to play guitar as they posture...

You see, a game could potentially reinforce actually learning a skill as well. A radical and almost unknown concept, but one that is valid nonetheless.

Nevermind, its pretty obvious we have lost you... ;-)

You haven't lost me, but you would lose a lot of people if the goal was to teach guitar. IF someone wanted to learn guitar, they'd go take lessons.

Have you played guitar? Its a LOT harder then guitar hero and would offer the same amount of fun for most.

Next you'll be telling us a first person shooter should actually teach real shooting skills. Or a driving game should teach real driving skills - make the left bumper a left blinker..etc...

Games are for escaping reality for most.

Yes, I do, but I prefer acoustic bass, of which my favorite is a 1938 Kay.

Teaching the correct fingering or even simply the chords by substituting red, green blue and yellow name tags for F# C G A and D is no more complicated than scoring points by playing wack a mole by hitting the correct keys on the keyboard instead of making random key assignments.

In fact, no even need be aware that it is a lesson if the game is designed correctly!

And if more had real shooting skills, we wouldn't have to suffer through so many asinine posts like yours that find the combination of the teaching of real skills with entertainment sooooo complex.

And to think, next I will make some outlandish suggestion like making flight simulation or sailing programs accurate!! Besides, if they are realistic, they can't be fun, can they?

But its painfully obvious that you play lots of games as you reflect a total abstraction from the reality that has totally escaped you.

More fundamental:

When will Sony see a positive return on their investment as they continue to seed the market with subsidized boxes after winning the HD format war only to see sales moderate.

For the others, as long as they see a positive return, they are doing exactly what they need to do.

I don't care about any perceived platform war. But the real world has to address real world business fundamentals, and thus far, Sony has failed to figure out how to do this. Again and again.

how so?....they made money on the PS1....they are STILL making money on the PS2 (it was only outsold by the 360 by 30k units in June) and they are making money on the PSP....sounds pretty good to me...

so the PS3 is loosing money...that is NORMAL early on for a console...the PS1 and PS2 sold at losses at first as well....the PS3 will turn a profit in time...it took till this quarter for MS's gaming division to turn its first EVER profit....they lost a TON on the original xbox...

in reality...Sony has MORE history of making money in the video game business than Microsoft, and just as much as Nintendo...

Sony also has a grand history of not only failing to recover the non-recurring engineering (NRE) costs on competing proprietary technologies as well.

Yup, as has been reflected in the mass turnovers and ever embarassingly public corporate apologies, Sony is doing great! NOT!

And whatever the PS1 and PS2 have to do with the success of the PS3 as they continue to cannibalize sales from the PS3 I am sure escapes you.

I don't care hat they have done in years past when they weren't busy pushing proprietary failed formats, and neither does Sony judging from the mass reorganizations and forced retirements of the principals in their gaming division!

Just SOMETIMES, economics and business take precedence over fanboy loyalties. Even at Sony! Go figure!

um...there IS a console war. month to month looks a little silly when compared to a console's lifetime sales. here, take a look:

http://www.vgchartz.com/

only 14,920,000 more to go before you get first place, PS3!

Um, whoopdee-doo. Seems the only people getting heartburn over the console war are: fanbois (natch), ANALysts and the console makers (including 3rd party companies). Most end-users could give a rat's butt which console is selling best this month, etc. People will play what they want to play, and if that means buying multiple consoles, so be it. Too many companies and people are over hyping the entire console war thing.

Of course there are console wars. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sure everybody is selling units, but is everybody making money? In fact only Nintendo is making money. Both Sony and Microsoft are losing massive amounts of money trying to beat each other out (BILLIONS of dollars people!). I don't think a situation in which 2 out of 3 major players in a market keep cutting prices while they hemmorage money is an "everybody's winning" situation. Not buyin' it, sorry.

Actually MS has started turning a profit. Sony is the only one digging a hole now. http://www.edge-online.c...ls-show-xbox-div-profit

True. And Sony's biggest reason for not making money yet is blu-ray. While it has kept the PS3 from being profitable so far, the fact that blu-ray won will negate any financial impact its had.

All consoles (except Nintendo's) historically have not made money in the first couple of years.

"There is no console war. Consumers can purchase multiple platforms (e.g., it's not like the core only select one platform).
==================================================

I disagree. There have always been (and always will be) console wars, and the reason is simple: the vast majority of Americans can't really afford to buy more than one console, let alone all three consoles and the games to go with them.

After rent, food, clothing, gas, and other entertainment expenses, the amount of money left over at the end of the month for gaming is almost non-existent for a lot of people. Add this to the fact that new releases often cost $60, and you have the makings of a good old fashioned console war; not because consumers CHOOSE for there to be a war, but because economically, a war is all that we can afford.

I think the point is...in a market making $22 billion dollars in sales...even being in 3rd place is not bad, so everyone wins in that sense....therefore, no "war".

Obviously you probably make more money being the #1 in sales....unless you wasted it all on advertisement so you could become the #1...:)

That was Sony's (and to an extent, Microsoft's) biggest problem: they spent so much money trying to make the console flashy and powerful, they've priced themselves out of the reach of a lot of people. If the product is too expensive and consumers can't afford it, the best advertising in the world means nothing.

I think it's worth mentioning that Final Fantasy XIII was announced for the XBOX360 to be available simultaneously with the PS3 version -- that's definitely a factor with a certain demographic as to which system they will purchase.

Which is exactly why the PS3 is having a hard time staying afloat. The biggest franchise of the last generation, Grand Theft Auto, was for the most part a Sony exclusive.

Since the most recent entry in the franchise hasn't been exclusive to one system (and since Sony doesn't have the same reliable properties that Nintendo and to a lesser extent Microsoft does), the only folks who feel compelled to buy PS3s are the ones who want cheap Blu-ray players...and even those have come down on recent months, diluting the one of the PS3's main selling points.

sounds like u drank a big o cup of ps3 haterade before posting!

nothing cheap about a ps3 buddy! i'm a proud owner of a xbox360, so dont think i'm a fanboy of my ps3 :-)

the war thing is silly! ps3 is better than an xbox lol, depends, i been playing 'alone in the dark all week.. but its worth having both.. because they both rock!

Nope, not hate, just sales figures. And while the PS3 is still very expensive for a game machine, when it came out back in '06, it was essentially a cheap Blu-ray player; they were running about $1000 a few years ago, and at $600, the PS3 was a steal by comparison. However, none of that changes the fact that Sony is pulling up the rear in both the home console and portable fronts. Click on that link in the first post if you don't believe me.

Having said that, I own a 360, and if I ever have any money, I might buy a Wii one day. But there is still a war; I'm willing to bet that as someone who owns both a PS3 and a 360, you're probably waaayyy outnumbered by folks who only own one console. Why? It's just cheaper that way, and money is a major issue.

In other words, HOLY CRAP our beloved 360 got smoked for the month! What do we write? Lets just say there is no war.

I'm joking. The only reason the PS3 got the sales bump was MetalGearSolid4. The 360 got the bump after Halo. The numbers should even out again next month.

Oh, and not everyone won.

Depends on your perspective...

the 360 division made a profit of 422 million -that would be a positive for MS - sure they didn't move as many consoles but a system that has as many problems and people are still buying it? I'd say they are doing well

PS3 sold well due to MGS4 - still not making a profit though but selling well

The wii keeps on selling and has been making a profit since day one.

To say that there is no console war is a little silly in my opinion. The reason why there is a console war is because Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are all competing for our money.

I think you only don't have a console war when these three major companies stop competing for our dollars. I don't think that will ever happen. Though, it would be interesting if Microsoft and Sony opened up there online multiplayer networks so PS3 owners could compete against Xbox 360 owners.

Or if all three companies put there heads together to develop the super system. If that ever happens then you don't have a console war.

This month, Nintendo wins the console war hands down by outselling PS3 and Xbox360. The Wii is still in short supply too, its still difficult to find one of those things. The PS3 comes in 2nd and Xbox360 had it rough, they came in 3rd.

And of course the main factor for ANY and all console sales are the games that come out for the system.

Rob