Pics of the drive here:

http://www.reghardware.c...ws_xbox_360_hddvd_drive/

Looks like there is no digital interface, and the video stream will be going back along the USB to the XBox 360 and output using it's existing analog connections. Composite at best. hence no HD.

When is a HD-DVD not HD, when there is no HDMI/DVI...

Xbox and PS3 feelings aside, can we all agree that HDCP is a really bad thing for consumers???

I agree, and I believe that is going to come back and bite Sony. They bundle in the Blu-Ray drive, a device that is not in any way needed for a game system, to force it onto the market. Causing the price of their console to be one of the highest priced ever (I believe only the 3DO and Neo Geo were higher and we know how well that worked for them). I really don't believe that the demand for Blu-Ray is going to be high enough to justify the price. Most people just want a game system, and when they see a $600 system sitting next to a system that is several hundred dollars cheaper I don't think the $600 system is going to look very appealing. Oh and it will do really great in Europe I bet, where it will cost $730.

LOL! "HD DVD is the best value".

Not as You can buy your XBox360 (for $399) and the HD-DVD add-on (which is likely to cost over $100), or just buy the PS3 for the confirmed price of $499 which includes Blu-Ray and a HDD.

Whilst still rumour, it seems the HD-DVD add-on is analogue only, with no DVI/HDMI connection.

The $499 version is crippled, no HDMI in particular. You have to pay $600 to get the PS3 with everything. I believe you have been harping on for weeks about how the PS3 would be $399 and it would be commercial suicide to price it at $600 were you not? So let's see $599 for a console that forces you to buy a drive that is useless for gaming and you may not even want or need simply because Sony wants to force their format onto the market, or $399 (very likely to be $299 when the PS3 launches) for a gaming system with the OPTION to add HD-DVD, probably for no more than $150 (price should be announced soon). How is HD-DVD not the best value again? Don't even start with your stupid pathetic rumours and your "sources" , we've seen how reliable those are.

"The $499 version is crippled, no HDMI in particular"

LOL! Crippled like the XBox360???

Seems if the XBox360 leaves out HDMI port on all models including the top end then it's OK, but if Sony leave it out the basic model only, it's crippled...

The $499 basic version is hardly crippled, it's got loads of stuff that the XBox 360 core does not have, some of the features, even top end XBox 360 does not have, for example: Hi-Def storage, motion sensor controllers (like Nintendo WII), built in 20GB HDD, Wireless controllers.

Sony have cut back the features for the basic system in a very sensible way, in areas that will not affect game compatability. Having no HDMI port only affects connectivity and vision quality (although even the basic has still got component). Microsoft cut the HDD from the XBox360, and created a configuration nightmare for developers everywhere, and hence crippled even the HDD enabled versions from the outset by not making HDD standard.

Whilst the rabid US XBox fanboys will be ranting, most people can see that for $100 more, you can a hell of alot more console, for $200 more, you get even more..

PS. You obviously an idiot who has trouble reading or understanding English, as "stupid pathetic rumours and your sources", were never claimed to be mine, I simply posted a link to the article on The Inquirer. You arguments are getting more and more desperate, I can only think how desperate they will be November.

For someone who calls other people idiots, you still manage to look like one yourself.

Spelling mistakes aside, why are you throwing around buzz-words like "Hi-Def storage?" Ah yes, you'll be playing games in "4D" as well?

The Inquirer as source? Ahahahaha.

No HDMI, mean no 1080p movies. I wonder if you can do 1080p in games with component only.

Hi-Def storage? Only fully usable with the $599.00 version.

The HDD will make Sony bleeds more money just like Microsoft does.

deleted--off topic.

It's not only about 1080P. Without HDMI, protected discs can only be viewed at 480P.

So, it's not a viable BluRay movie player.

yikes sounds like its that time of the month for banquo ether that or he going threw puberty. but really the xbox 360 owners better hope MS doesn't eventually go all games or some games with the HD DVD format. that would really suck.

I don't think Microsoft was only referring to 360 vs PS3. I think they also are considering the fact that HDDVD Players are out now for $499 and BluRay players are $999.

Which is a better value there?

The $499 version does NOT have the Hi-Def storage, the motion sensor is a lame ripoff and they removed the rumble feature to add it, the whole thing is a joke. Oh and there come the personal insults again, I love whenever someone has a weak argument they have to bring out the childish attacks. The other day you were foaming at the mouth that Sony would NEVER do such a thing but now it's a-ok. Talk about pathetic.

I'm stating facts as they were announced at the Sony conference; I can post a pdf directly from Sony that details these missing features if you like. Do you have any thing more intelligent to add to this discussion other than lame insults? Funny that you would say I was going "threw" puberty when you are the one acting like a child.

Exactly, as several people predicted here they have basically crippled movie playback in the cheaper version so that it does not undercut sales of standalone Blu-Ray players so badly.

ps3 for $499

Ahh, but you need to read a little more about the $499 version:

"The $499 version will not include MemoryStick, SD, and CompactFlash ports, as well as wireless networking. Additionally, no HDMI support is provided with the low-end model, which will cripple its compatibility with high-definition televisions."

Erm the $499 version DOES have Blue-Ray HD storage. Not sure where your getting your facts from, but they are wrong.

" I believe you have been harping on for weeks about how the PS3 would be $399"

I posted a single link to an rumour on The Inquirer.... hardly harping on for weeks!!!

Looks like the XBox360 will cripple it also.

It's only the $599 PS3 that is truly HD Ready.

It's looking like the Xbox360 add-on is the same, analog and crippled.

Only the $599 PS3 has the required HDMI port.

i wish one of them would just drop out of contention. for the sake of mass HD adoption.

It will, it will be the one without the HD as standard..

Neither will drop out, but if you think having an HD drive is essential to a game console you are just the type of consumer Sony is counting on. I am interested in knowing how you figure that being forced to pay extra for a drive that isn't needed at all for games and that many if not most people will never make use of is a good thing. I would rather have the choice myself. Sony bundled the Blu-Ray drive into the PS3 for one reason alone; to try and force it onto the market and make it the next standard. Typical underhanded Sony marketing tactics. If you think not having an HD drive as standard is going to cause the 360 to fail, well all I can say is that you're going to be proven wrong yet once again.

Why is a Blu-Ray drive not needed in games?

There are already games for the PC that come on 2 DVD's. Cut scenes, soundtracks etc etc, FMV sequences etc. 8GB is soon used up.

Seems you are being bery short sighted to think that for the next 5 years of the consoles lif, DVD is enough for storage. Of courser you would say that, and every single XBox 360 title is now tied to the DVD format, regardless of what drive it may have been upgraded to, as Microsoft decided to rush it onto the market without it as standard.

great.. if only the 360 had hdmi or a better connection

The Xbox 360 does support HDMI, all they have to do is provide the capability to connect to it which sounds very likely according to this interview from last year:

"Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 will support HD component video output, which is compatible with nearly every HD-ready TV on the market today. We’re poised to hit the sweet spot of the HD market at launch and as the market matures, and we will provide an HDMI for our customers when it makes sense."

http://interviews.teamxb...erview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/

With the addition of the HD-DVD drive, I think it now makes sense. :)

Unfortunately all of the pins on universal video plug on the back of the x360 are confirmed to be analog. There is no way to provide HDMI without having an expensive external analog to digital converter.

I don't know how MS is going to deal with this problem as I thought that HD-DVD spec required HDMI for copy protection.

Well if you are talking about the TV itself, that would apply to the PS3, standalone players, and everything else that requires it. You can't blame Microsoft for the type of TV you own, go talk to the movie industry. All he's saying is that for people who do have an HDMI compliant TV they'll be all set to go.

Microsoft isn't going to release an HD-DVD addon that can't play movies; they'll have something in order to take care of that. Let's just wait for E3 and hopefully we'll know what their plans are.

LOL "The Xbox 360 does support HDMI, all they have to do is provide the capability to connect to it".

So it does not support HDMI then. Anything can support anything if "add the capability to connect to it"

Neither does your $499 PS3. My point was they are most likely going to add support otherwise the HD-DVD addon would make no sense. Keep grasping at those straws though.

The $599 does thou. So what, big deal. I will be buying the all singing $599 version.

Sony have done the right thing and copied Microsoft with the basic and higher end packages. I feel Sony have done it in a more sensible way thou, so as not to affect how games play. (even the basic system has a HDD).

I think your grasping at straws, have you seen the reply from the MS guy at E3, as to if the XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on will have a HMDI port. The answer was not a "yes of course it will", it was a "when it makes sense" (read NO).

Looks like you have been royally shafted by Microsoft with false promises.

No, it is not sensible.

When you buy the core version, it can not be upgraded to the full version. Xbox 360 core can.

Fair point. It just means people need to buy the system that suits them best. if you got a HD Ready TV, then you should not buy the cheaper model. Then again, if you can afford a HD Ready Plasma, you would be likely to be buying the more expensive version anyway.

Seem Sony have stolen marketing tricks from Microsoft (dual models), and controller from Nintendo.

Whilst I am not convinced about the controller, they did a better job of splitting the console features between basic and full, than Microsoft did..

This is my point, before the rabid fanboys jumped on me.

As someone has pointed out, all the pins on the XBox360 are analog, so any HD-DVD add-on for the XBox360 would need to be either:

a) using a seperate digital output, aside from the game consoles output.

b) not digital, and therefore potentially downscaled to DVD quality by the protection scheme.

Either way, it's gonna be naff..

All pushed on us by Hollywood(MPAA). Who thought of this? Why they let someone like them to determine the path of technology is beyond me. Their purpose was to only protect their content from being copied.

We all are going to be paying for this one for a long time.

"Seem Sony have stolen marketing tricks from Microsoft (dual models), and controller from Nintendo.
"

And if I recall correctly, back when Microsoft released the 2 skus, they didn't have anything nice at all to say about it.

Nice long post. Kind of a side note, but it was very distracting to see most of your sentences ending with the exclamation mark. I'm right here--you don't have to yell :)

I hope you know you're making a fool of yourself each time you even mention fanboys, because you constantly act like the biggest Sony fanboy on the planet. Please, just stop embarrasing yourself. As for the HD-DVD addon you have no clue what they are planning with it, so why not wait until they release the details instead of ending up being totally wrong again.

Excecpt Sony have done a better job of seperating the units. They could have left out the HDD, or omited the Blu-Ray, but they did the sensible option, kept both, and back the non-essential bells and whistles, that don't affect gameplay.

HDTV is currently in the process of replacing analog TV, so it would be a bad move for ANYONE to buy the $499 system. And even if you still have an analog TV, what if your TV breaks a few months after you buy the $499 system and then you buy a HDTV. Now you're really screwed. And why would ANYONE in today's age build anything that isn't compatible with HDTV? That's just crazy. I can't believe Sony did it. Especially Sony, as high-tech as Sony is supposed to be. And you know there are going to be allot of people who don't know any better that are going to buy the wrong system. I bet there are going to be allot of returns, exchanges and technical support calls.

There is still a way for MS to do it, it would involve using an analog signal to deliver the encrypted digital frame buffer to an analog to digital converter in a special cable. This way the stream would stay encrypted, and the ADC wouldn't need to be very complex as it would already be prerendered in the correct format. The only question is how much bandwidth they can get out of the proprietary x360 connector using the existing MS webtv chip. In addition there would need to be sufficient power to drive the ADC and the resulting compliant data stream.

If you look at the drive photos, there is only USB connections and a power cord. This means that any video stream is going back via the USB to the XBox360, and then out of the analog connections. Crippled, as some rabid dogs would say...

See posted photos and interconnects to see who is wrong...

"Microsoft isn't going to release an HD-DVD addon that can't play movies; they'll have something in order to take care of that. Let's just wait for E3 and hopefully we'll know what their plans are"

We can blow this statement out of the water when MS finally admit that the HD-DVD is not very HD...

I bet it will be EXPENSIVE!!!

As far as plugging it into other devices, I bet Microsoft won't allow it. Although all things can be bypassed.

"I bet it will be EXPENSIVE!!!"

Not necessarily. Hopefully they'll announce the pricing at E3.

I'm sure they will too. And I bet it will be under $200, which is worthwhile considering stand alone players are $499 minimum. And I'm sure whatever price it's released at will drop in 6 months to a year tops.

if is USB i wonder what will happen if i plug it to my PC .... or even on the PS3

hmm.. good point. It would be awesome if it was compatible with a desktop PC as well.

Great, I want to see it in action asap ! But how much will cost this HD-DVD Player ? That's the big question.

See you

Lapytsh
Microsoft MVS

http://www.lapytsh.com