Login:
Password:

AMD's price/performance conundrum: Can it keep its high-end customers?

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

March 27, 2008, 6:43 PM

Its highest-end CPUs will be stuck behind two big barricades -- a 2.6 GHz speed cap and a 65 nm barricade -- until at least the latter half of the year. So AMD now looks to ATI to help make up the difference, with an argument that just might work.

AMD's value proposition for its updated desktop processors is based on a return to the company's remaining strengths, and a hope that it can triangulate its positions in three corners of the PC component market -- CPUs, GPUs, and chipsets -- to eke out a price/performance claim that's stronger than any of its components viewed separately.

But traditional AMD buyers won't translate the way their view its products quite so readily. They will continue to evaluate the characteristics of Intel's Core 2 Quads and quad-core Core 2 Extremes against AMD's Phenom X4s, and they'll take note of the fact that AMD's clock frequency stops at 2.5 GHz while Intel stretches well into the 3.0 GHz stratosphere. And they'll wonder whether they'd be trading off too much.

It's worth noting that newer ATI Radeon graphics cards making special use of features in AMD 7-series chipsets. For instance, the new, low-price "Hybrid Radeons" will leverage features of existing graphics hardware installed on integrated motherboards, supplementing their capacity instead of substituting for it. AMD is relying on this and other means of leverage to sustain its new, platform-centric strategy -- a transition away from its historic emphasis on variety and choice.

But is it AMD's new contention, now that these channels of leverage are available and new quanta of performance can be realized through them, that AMD no longer needs a 3.0 GHz processor?

"For a gamer, we think that the easy way to get performance that matters...is to scale GPUs," Simon Solotko, AMD's desktop brand manager, told BetaNews in a conference with reporters earlier this week. "That way is through the 790FX [Spider] platform, which features up to four GPU slots. Now, if you were to buy that baseline Spider platform for about $1,200, or a little less, then you could very easily add another ATI Radeon HD 3850 GPU for about $150, and get really tremendous performance on state-of-the-art games, and then you're able to run at true HD resolutions, high settings. That kind of benefit is very accessible...it's very easy to expand the performance for gaming by adding additional GPUs."

To help make his case, Solotko demonstrated an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-based system running on a motherboard with an Intel X38 chipset, supporting an ATI Radeon 3450 GPU. He stated this system would be about $30 more expensive than the Phenom 9850-based system running on an AMD 790FX motherboard with a 780G chipset and the Radeon HD 3850 GPU, running beside it. So price was the equalizing factor here (which explains the difference between the 3450 and the HD 3850).

In a FRAPS rendering test of Half-Life II Episode 2 for both systems, frame rates for the Spider platform clearly registered as much as 70 fps, while the Intel-based system failed to break 17 during the time the camera was on it.

So AMD is finally making use of ATI, and it's doing so in a big way: For the performance its enthusiast-level CPUs may appear to lack, it's looking to ATI to make up the gap, with the notion that only gamers would be interested in that level of performance anyway, and if that performance comes from a lower-price GPU rather than a premium CPU, why should that be a problem?

Next: Charting the Intel/AMD battlefield

Continued. . .
1 | 2 | Next >>

Add a Comment (16 Comments)

BetaNews reserves the right to remove any comment at any time for any reason. Please keep your responses appropriate and on topic. Foul language and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Name (required):

E-mail (required):

Enter Your Comment:

By Registered

edited Mar 31, 2008 - 11:58 AM

the fact is Ever since AMD pulled the wall over Intel with the P4 situation, Intel has really kicked in to overdrive, over the last 2 years, intel has realized that speed and effiency work hand in hand, the P4 had speed, but it was a bad designed chip from the outset, and all the propaganda from Intel just made the situation worst,

many many loyal people to AMD actually comes from that disaster Intel brought upon themselves, spouting things like, the P4 will reach 10GHz, and that the P4 platform is the future,

well that was just lies, and AMD hit Intel right in the mouth with the Athlon XP, and Intel lost a lot of followers,

but things has changed, and Intel have done what AMD did so well, EFFICIENCY is more important then speed,

Intel has deffiently made there CPU's more efficient, and AMD won't be able to compete with Intel if they attempt to go head to head,

i feel now Intel has sorted there act out, there spending huge amount of resources in R&D, and lets face it, Intel has far more finance at there disposal the AMD,

it kind of reminds me over hear when Energizer came out and hit Duracell hard with there far superior batteries, but within a year Duracell with there hhuge resource came back strong is now superior.

AMD will have to settle for 2nd place, and lets be honest, nothing is wrong with second place, AMD came out after Intel anyway,

the big question is, is there room for 2 CPU companies,

yes!!!! absolutely, because lets face it, it was AMD that got Intel to sort there self out anyway,

with the right tactics and monuvering, AMD can do well and make a lot of money, no one says they have to be 1st,

as long as a company is making money, then who cares about who's the best.

Score: 0

By tscar13

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 9:42 PM

I am surprised that Betanews even knows what conundrum means let alone spell it correctly.

Score: 0

By yourcat

posted Mar 30, 2008 - 9:45 PM

If you don't like BN then go somewhere else.

Score: 0

By tscar13

posted Mar 31, 2008 - 12:48 AM

I'll go anywhere i like but thank you for your insightful comment.

Score: 0

By KRome

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 6:39 PM

i built my system based on a pheom 9500, cheap am2+ mobo and ati hd 3800 card.

Im a seasoned veteran at system building and bought into the spider system. why?

Cost.

Intel can push the limits all they want, the country is in a recession, and people want bang for there buck.

Any jerk can throw money around and build a fast system. The same as with a car.

However, the smart person builds a system with intelligence not with their wallet.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 6:28 PM

Amd is at this stage because of situation rather than choice. They lapped up the market share they gained when Intel was flogging the P4, but even at this point Intel still had a huge market share because there a people who buy them regardless. Now its reversed amd is getting trounced, and would love to have the same share Intel had when it was getting trounced.

Its safe to say AMD has the budget market because they cant sell them any higher.

"However, the smart person builds a system with intelligence not with their wallet."

Its not a dig, but smart people generally have more in their wallet (or purse, I don't want the sexist brigade on my case.)

Score: 0

By Somnambulator

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 1:33 AM

that's why you drop $260 for a Q6600 + good cooler and run it at 3.6ghz with relative ease. even on stock cooling they hit 3.0 ghz and crush AMD.

without considering overclocking, AMD is/was the value king. they have been since the original Athlon, and i've been a loyal AMD customer for 7 years. Intel's bang for the buck really increases dramatically if you spend a few extra bucks and add in some know-how and overclock the Core2's.

since we're discussing high end/low end/best value, overclocking should be considered, though obv not the main concern.

even at stock speeds, Intel's new E8400 chip at around $200 is noticably faster than the Phenom 9700 X4 in single and dual-threaded applications.

i want AMD to pick it up for more than just competition, i like the company and i like/liked ATI as well, but their stuff just isnt holding its own even for the same $ as Intel and nVidia. Some chips and cards are great buys and definitely compete well, like the 5000+ Black Edition for about $90 and the 256 and 512MB 3850's in a mid-low gaming machine. but really besides these few, and maybe 1 or 2 others, Intel and nVidia are faster at the same price points. this includes mid-ranged products.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 6:22 PM

For the gamers this is true, but for the mainstream power user who wants the best performance and doesn't have the know-how or desire to over clock like corp buyers are the bigger market, and the best performance at stock, with the best pricing for multiple purchases normally wins though.

That said, I think your right without this argument, and that Intel is on fire at the moment.

Score: 0

By c4p0ne

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 12:11 PM

What about AMD 790 Chipset + Phenom Quad vs. Intel X38 + Core2Quad?

Score: 0

By Andreas2000

edited Mar 28, 2008 - 6:16 AM

Its worth noting that a 2.6 Ghz AMD quad is slower than a 2.6 Ghz intel quad..

Actually IIRC a non-existing AMD 3.0 Ghz quad = Intel 2.4 Ghz quad.

"Can it keep its high-end customers?"
To answer the question in the topic.. no it can't.. not unless it stats competing again, I switched my 3.0 Ghz AMD dual core to a 3.0 Ghz Intel dual core.. the next upgrade will probably be the Intel 3.0 ghz quad in august.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 9:53 AM

I have to agree that AMD basically cannot keep its high end customers right now. For price/performance I think they have some good things going for them on the low/medium side, but not the high end.

Score: 0

By CyberDoc999

posted Mar 28, 2008 - 4:02 AM

This is a poor comparison by AMD.
the only card AMD has left to play is low cost.
I hope they stay around.

Score: 0

By Second Shadow

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 11:09 PM

Excellent report, Scott
I used to play a lot with these price/performance charts when I was shopping for a new CPU. It's a shame that these charts aren't updated more often at Tom's Hardware or elsewhere.

Score: 0

By evolution76

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 9:58 PM

AMD for life........lol

Score: 0

By Somnambulator

posted Mar 27, 2008 - 7:28 PM

||"For a gamer, we think that the easy way to get performance that matters...is to scale GPUs," Simon Solotko, AMD's desktop brand manager, told BetaNews in a conference with reporters earlier this week.||

i'm not so sure about this. many games want equal parts CPU and GPU, and a few are extreme on one side or another. saying that multi-GPUs is better than a better CPU, even as a generalization, is sketchy at best.

most people see SLI or Crossfire and think it automatically gives outstanding gaming performance, when in reality multi-GPU setups (not counting the budget-oriented hybrid Crossfire debuting soon) are only best exploited with outstanding CPUs.

also, many multi-gpu scenerios for budget, mainstream, and mid-high end buyers are actually less cost-effective than buying a single, more powerful card. SLI/XF, in practice, is only cost effective when cost isnt a factor! why buy 2 $180 3870s or 8800GTs when 1 $350 8800GTX is about the same speed (and a 1.5-2 year old card! wait until it's price point 9000-Series replacement comes out). not only is there little performance or cost benefit in most cases to go SLI or Crossfire, but they also require relatively more expensive motherboards (for multi-gpu support) and power supplies to power 2 or more cards.

when you get down to the real world, SLI and Crossfire only truely benefits those people dropping $600-1400 for graphics alone, since it gives them 2 (or more) of the top single card performers and reaches a level of performance ONLY reachable with multiple cards.

/rant

Score: 0

By crashoverride

posted Mar 29, 2008 - 1:31 AM

It is my opinion that the GPUs are progressing too rapidly for SLI/XF to be effective or practical for anyone but those that will drop $3000 or more for a gaming rig without flinching.

Score: 0