Unions are the new dinosaur. They used to have a purpose, but now most of them are about extorting companies. No loser who is the head of a union, is going to tell me who I can and can't hire. When a Unions only way to keep them in "business" is to threaten people and their families, destroy property, and a host of other dubious acts, it's no wonder why their membership has dropped so much. What's funny is the Unions haven't come out and done something about all of the illegal alien losers that are taking their jobs. Problem is, with a "President" that is trying to get amnesty for all of them, and wont even talk about the problem, let alone call a terrorist a terrorist, you can bury the unions right now and start looking for jobs. Be right back, going to see if there is a "man made disaster" attack on the news,

Whats funny about this whole healthcare issue is that people keep saying that at&t employees don't pay for health care. Well that deduction labeled "healthcare" on my pacheck would beg to differ.

You are not paying the full cost of the healthcare coverage.

I think you will find that the percentage that you and the company pays in the face of rising costs is the issue at hand...

Its really sad when the employees haven't a proper clue as to the issue. But hey...they have a union looking out for them...you know, with stewards and bosses who don't lose any money during a strike! And they are only too glad to commit YOUR resources as they stand up to the man without risk to themselves! LOL!

I have been paying for a portion of my health care every payday for a long time. I don't see where that is so unreasonable. If at&t is listening I would be willling quit my current tech job and work for you and cross any line.

AT&T is a bottom line corp. Everything for the Executive Staff and Share Holders. Customers and Employees are just cows. Just like it is with all Fortune 500 Corporations. They are as greedy as all the Wall Street Corporations, Banks, Insurance Corporations and Pharmaceuticals And they use all the Federal Agencies with 3 letter initials to .protect their otherwise illegal practices against humanity.
Wake UP America!!!!

Note that if since the 70s they had left the cost of housing, food, transportation, and medical in the cola formula, the current minimum wage would be around $75 an hour. This is how bad you have been robbed by all those above.

Reaganomics trickle down economics with no trickle down. Only took them 35 years to totally destroy everything that was built by Roosevelt plans.

Now the Hope of the election was to elect a president to restore those very same Roosevelt Plans that created the greatest economic power the world had ever seen. And Unions played a major role in building that power that was the United States of America.

We need our people united as in Unions to restore those systems that worked. All the deregulation's of those big corporations led to the mess we are now in. So do not even listen to their B.S.

Middle Class America must be restored for America to survive. That was the power base. And now the closes thing to that are the Unionized workers. Take away their health plan coverage and we lose more of that Middle Class which we need to rebuild. So support the CWA and all those families to hold what little is remaining of our once great society The cost of the failure to do so is way beyond anything in your worse nightmares.

Yawn.

LMAO!

AT&T is a bottom line corp. Everything for the Executive Staff and Share Holders. Customers and Employees are just cows. Just like it is with all Fortune 500 Corporations. They are as greedy as all the Wall Street Corporations, Banks, Insurance Corporations and Pharmaceuticals And they use all the Federal Agencies with 3 letter initials to .protect their otherwise illegal practices against humanity.
Wake UP America!!!!

Note that if since the 70s they had left the cost of housing, food, transportation, and medical in the cola formula, the current minimum wage would be around $75 an hour. This is how bad you have been robbed by all those above.

Reaganomics trickle down economics with no trickle down. Only took them 35 years to totally destroy everything that was built by Roosevelt plans.

Now the Hope of the election was to elect a president to restore those very same Roosevelt Plans that created the greatest economic power the world had ever seen. And Unions played a major role in building that power that was the United States of America.

We need our people united as in Unions to restore those systems that worked. All the deregulation's of those big corporations led to the mess we are now in. So do not even listen to their B.S.

Middle Class America must be restored for America to survive. That was the power base. And now the closes thing to that are the Unionized workers. Take away their health plan coverage and we lose more of that Middle Class which we need to rebuild. So support the CWA and all those families to hold what little is remaining of our once great society The cost of the failure to do so is way beyond anything in your worse nightmares.

Well I think its pretty obvious that PC-tool has never earned a decent wage and also likes to read his own type. I averaged out what $11/hour would get ya. Before taxes we're looking at $22,880; according to the Uniited States Health and Human Services 2008 POVERTY GUIDELINES for a family of four is $21,200. By the way this is before tax is taken out, so if you subtract tax your looking at 19,448 per year.

Wow, PC-tool would have a family of four live on about $1620/month. That wouldn't even pay for rent in the most ghetto of places here in San Diego, where by the way AT&T has one of its largest call centers. If this is what AT&T paid i gaurantee that no one would enroll in their proposed healthcare plan and then guess what, you'll have thousands more people on government assistance. Oh and by the way at those wages all these people would qualify for food stamps and welfare. So sure bring on those 'decent' wages of yours.

And on the note of CEO's getting paid so much. What a load of crap!!! Those genius CEO's who are worth so much money are the exact fools who put the economy in the stuation we are in. Yea real talent there.

Just like the head up their @ss autoworker unions!

These dweebs would put their own companies at risk simply to advance their own already over-compensated @sses compared to other companies.

Big Unions and Big Management. They have forged a symbiotic relationship where each are simply foils of the other, and each are just as bad as the other and each acts solely in their own interest. Oh, and the whining of BOTH is just so sad. LMAO!

Yeah, CWA you have my support.

With luck the strike will last long enough that you will have to work another 5 years just to recoup the lost wages from when you were out walking around working as hard as you do on the job. Maybe even harder for many!

I will 'wave' as I drive by your picket lines. But I may not have the necessary enthusiam to raise all of my fingers.

I am proud to be one of the many people causing financial problems for AT&T. Two years ago, I moved my home phone service to Vonage and have successfully encouraged many of my friends and family to move to a VoIP service, either Vonage or through their cable providers. There always seemed to be some new tax, a surcharge or fee, or other itch that kept coming up with BellSouth/AT&T that we no longer have to deal with. AT&T gets $0 from me, period.

I'm all for keeping workers employed and helping them have high standards of living, but I'm not going to pump money into companies who provide shoddy service, constantly nickle and dime you to death, and refuse to be competitive with new alternatives that provide superior service at a much lower price point.

Too bad I don't have an affordable alternative to Comcast where I live as well. Great service, but not good enough to warrant the constant random price increases.

Yup, you sure screw AT&T, nitwit!

Let's see, in order to screw AT&T you need DSL, and oh yeah, in order to get DSL you need a land line, and you must pay for both as a prerequisite or getting Vonage. (Oh, and did we say tht includes a landline and phone number?????)

So that's roughly $20 for the required prerequisite landline and another $15 to $20 for the basic DSL, depending upon what promotion of which you may have taken advantage.

So thats $35-$40 plus change for base AT&T service, ON TOP OF WHICH you pay another $25+ for Vonage for what exactly? Oh, for your long distance, as your local calling is already included in the base land line changes....

You are indeed a genious! So effectively you are getting long distance for $25 a month!

Here's an idea! Just keep the landline and DSL for ~$40/month and add SkypeOUT for $3 a month and you will have unlimited long distance anywhere in North America! Or for a few dollars more, you can call most of the world!

Yup, you sure are puttin' in to the man!

LMAO!

Yeah, because we all know that you can't run Vonage over cable and AT&T is the ONLY DSL provider out there? Where in there did the "nitwit" say that he had DSL, or even DSL provided by AT&T? He didn't... So, let me see if I understand this, if it's not YOUR solution, it has to be wrong and over-priced?

Yeah just because you're stupid enough to have DSL (slow as s***, bad ping times, and speeds that could put your grandmother to sleep), doesn't mean everybody does. I personally had Verizon DSL and have never been happy with it. Once I could get cable internet, I found out what I'd been missing.

To hell with everything that is ATT, though. Their cell service sucks, their customer service is so-so, and their speeds (DSL in general ... I looked it up before I found out cable rocks) are abysmal.

Vonage (with free ANYTIME, ANYWHERE minutes), cable modem, and a pair of cordless phones is a winning combination!

Ok, so I forgot to say that I am a cable customer who lives far enough out that DSL isn't even an option. Nice flame; you're a legend in your own mind.

You guys are absolutely hilarious!

Let's see, so the original genius can't even get DSL and thus thinks Vonage is an alternative... LMAO!!!

And the other genius thinks that cable is a viable alternative, where they can pay ~$45+ for DSL ALONE and not even necessarily get the bonus land line telephone! And Then pay ~$25+ more a month for either long distance alone or for a phone line AND long distance with Vonage!

Congrats! You are welcome to use EITHER solution! Neither of which offers an improvement over the original issue that was the economics of using AT&T's service! But of course you are free to do whatever you want. Unfortunately it seems to be limited to whining!!! LOL!

How much you want to bet they both voted for Obama, as they obviously agree with his notions of spending our way out of debt!

Using AT&T's service, you get the total service for LESS than $45, with UNLIMITED ANYTIME LONG DISTANCE ANYWHERE IN NORTH AMERICA.

With cable and Vonage you are looking At Least $60-$65!!!

So its a neck and neck race for this year's Darwin Award!

LMAO!

With all due respect, Foxfyre...

I never said DSL was an alternative. There is no DSL in my area. The only three possibilities for internet service in my area are dial-up, cable, and satellite. Dial-up is too slow for my wife to manage her business when she is working at home. Satellite internet is exorbitantly expensive given the cable alternative. This leaves cable as the only viable choice.

AT&T Landline + long distance is $60 a month in my region, as of the last time I priced it (November 08). Comcast's VoIP service is $40 a month after the sale is over. Vonage is $25 a month year-round. So, do the math:

AT&T landline & long distance + Comcast internet/tv = $185 a month
AT&T Everything (you quoted $45) + Comcast internet/tv = $170 per month
Comcast total bundle (internet/tv/phone) = $165 per month
Vonage + Comcast internet/tv) = $150 per month.

Which do you think I'm going to pick? I might not meet your nebulous standards for an intelligent person (nor would I want to, from what I've seen of your replies in this thread), but I'm definitely not stupid when it comes to money.

The fact that you can't get AT&T service in no way invalidates their value. And I am not even an AT&T fan.

And I certainly don't give a flip about your need for 200 chanels of crap on your TV.

Bottomline, you get more service for your money regarding Internet access and phone service with the basic AT&T landline/DSL +SkypeOut (for $3/month!!!!!!!) than you do with Vonage on top of Cable DSL.

The fact that you rationalize the other service providers
's pricing provided you buy an additional plethora of unwanted or unneeded services does not invalidate the basic notion.

Nor does you emotional rant against AT&T - as much as we both may dislike the reconsolidation of the telcos into 60 ton gorillas.

Bottomline, AT&T plus Skype offers a cheaper price for equivalent Internet and phone service.

But the most asinine line in all of your posts is " I am proud to be one of the many people causing financial problems for AT&T."

The fact is, you aren't at all. Nada. Not One bit! AT&T is not having trouble financially. Nor does your moving to another carrier really bother them. As you see, they still get money from your service with cable.

You see, as you are So knowledgeable about costs in the communications industry, the SINGLE largest expense for cable companies each month is POLE RENTAL. Yup! Pole rental. As the vast majority of telephone poles are owned by either the phone company (duh!) or the electrical utility company. And space is not provided free!

In many cases, the telcos do not build out an area as they already receive substatial profit from alternative carriers in excess of what they determine will be their profit after the expense of buildout and maintenance of their own service.

So, if you are in a rural or a less dense region(meaning less people per mile, as your intelligence quotient has already been displayed ;-) , the cost of build out and maintenance most likely exceeds
the profit that would be derived from so few subscribers. And like it or not, they are a business and not a charitable organization.

So it is is a very advantageous partnership for AT&T to have cable pay rental on the pole and to let them absorb the build out and maintenance costs in return for minimal ROI as AT&T STILL gets as much or more from the pole rental as they would realize after total expenses if they provided the full service.

But its always nice to read the comments of one who reacts emotionally to the mention of a company name rather than that of one who understands the business of business.

But you keep right on thinking that you are 'sticking it to the man'. LOL!

Hmm...The CWA trying CYA.

I remember when the BellAtlantic employees in Philadelphia already had their strike plans in place a year ahead of time. There was no unhappiness with the negotiations because they hadn't started yet. They were going to strike to show the company who was in charge.

Now, someone in the membership wants to keep healthcare costs way below everyone else in the U.S.A. That's great but that time went away a few years ago and no one is getting that kind of deal. Even the UAW is fighting for survival, as they've helped crush the ability to sell domestically-built U.S. cars.

SBC/BellSouth/The New AT&T could use a wake up call and so could their union.

hear hear.

If it was possible, I would *love* to hear a success story about how a union workforce caused a company lower costs, higher profits, and greater share-price/success.

Yeah, like I said...."if it was possible". ;-)

If the company ain't making money, neither are you. Somehow, the unions think they are above that harsh little bit of reality.

[edit]Come on, you guys got nothing? Nothing at all? All I need is one example....you can do it!

Smash the unions - the bane of modern America.

Does anyone believe corporate america would pay any worker more than minimum wage if it weren't for the unions fighting for workers rights??? Union workers at AT&T are highly trained, skilled technicians who are among the best telecommunications workers on the planet. Anyone who diasagrees in uninformed...

To right. The automakers? Legacy costs forced on them by their Union Overlords. Hell, many retired auto-workers now get *more* in pension than they ever did working for the company... How's that make any business sense?

Let 'em fail so they can declare bankruptcy and restructure. The whole "we'll lose our car companies" is total Media-driven BS. They will restructure, lose their legacy costs and come back with the ability to actually eek out decent margins for once.

"$5.5 billion a year on health care subsidies for 1.2 million employees"

Did anyone actually *see* this number? It's ridiculous. No business could hope to survive charging decent prices with any kind of a profit with these kinds of costs weighing them down. None of them.

Want you cell-phones cheaper? Want your cell plan cheaper? Ditch the unions. There was a time when they were necessary...it's long past that time.

@ BocaJoe

No, you're just incredibly ignorant.

No union here. We pay *well* over minimum wage (lowest is $11.90/hr which is probationary for the first 90 days, after which, the lowest if $13.30). Not a union in sight.

This is the same for every company within miles of here (as we must stay competitive to keep our employees).

You seem to utterly fail at comprehending the whole "competition" bit....which doesn't just apply to marketing.

"Anyone who diasagrees in uninformed..."

How cute. You fail at Troll 101, dear boy.

Universal Healthcare for all americans not just goverment employess and elected officials... That would create a more level playing field for american corporations... How do you explain how the USA is the only G20 country without universal healhcare?

Are you bragging or complaining about how much you make??? Of are you simply venting at others who make more than you?

Social Healthcare...

Wow... Where did these guys come from?

Name one business the government has run better than it was run by private enterprise. Where the products were better, the cost lower, and the service more efficient.

As for being the only Country in the G20 without it, well...There's a reason ours has the best equipment and personnel. Every country with Social Health has less money for equipment, drugs, and qualified personnel. Check out an ER in any of those countries and compare it to any of them in ours. Compare wait-times, scheduling, the number and quality of available prescriptions...and the best of all, choice. You haven't done any of that, though...have you? Didn't think so. As usual, you confuse "irrational emotional response" with "knowledge". Not that you're alone in that though....it is becomming more and more prevalent nowadays.

Really, take you time...I've got all day.

*laughing*

About the pay: Funny stuff. I mention our starting wages and you glean from that that I am apparently new here and am still working for (what I consider) pennies? Not shocked or anything. I just find it amusing how little it takes for people like you to "KNOW" something. Just like you *KNOW* all about GM, AIG, and unions....

wow you're a douche for saying that

What is all this BS guys?

- Publicly regulated health care has nothing to do with getting rid of unions whose only contribution in a modern society is to drag down performance standards at increased cost.
- The US telecom infrastructure is way behind the rest of its peer nations - most of which don't have to pat themselves constantly on the back how truly the greatest they are.
- Toolie, I keep hearing these superior health care claims(esp from Mid Westerners) but it is far from true. You limit access to the latest med technology with protectionist import regulations and suffer from badly trained unmotivated care personnel. I dread the day I need some serious care and can't get out of here for some reason.

"I dread the day I need some serious care and can't get out of here for some reason."

Try going out of the country for more than 3 months. No, really. I have relatives from Canada who spent 3 years traveling the world and I myself spent 3 months in Europe a few years back.

You will get an entirely new outlook on US healthcare when you are without it for an extended period of time. Trust me. Even the UK newsrags clamour about the state of their healthcare system. In fact, I thought after my first skim of your comment you were referring to them.

@ cescam18

If you say so... I know, the truth hurts sometimes.

Margaret Thatcher, was is a good example. YES smash the Unions!

What you call "legacy cos" is the health an wealth of billion people.

Of course it is a well know fact that workforce is the ENEMY of the industry.
A shame it happens that the customer HAPPEN to be someone workforce ... (or are you suggesting state payed wages ? :) )

And you are right, since salaries and general common people welfare dropped under retirement pension level (while profits and PIB soared during the 30 past year and more) it is the pensions that should be lovered, that makes sense... Poor workers are happy workers ....

And since health care costs are higher and higher thanks to other companies that overprice on monopolistic patents on discovered molecules (not invented) mostly by fate (designer drugs are mostly a myth at this time) people should pay or die (like they do in Africa) - And did you know that many recent drugs have dubious effect on health thanks to an anemic control system of the studies that bases market authorizations ?--

What should be done is that people should NOT be paid and shot if they strike (as it is the case in many lower cost countries that happens not to be a ****ing democracy, let's drop democracy too, legacy costs all the way), thus workforce cost would be kept to a minimum (zero), efficiency the highest and .... oh no customers ? Well, they could sell to china ?

Of course the same would apply to YOU, your wife and children when off age because, you know it is for the benefits off all ..

Wake up call : a society is not here to be efficient, and a perfect machine (something it would not be even with the strange reasoning you display) it is a construction built to maximize the happiness of its PEOPLE, not corporation, not some reduced part of its constituents ....

And what the narrow visions of, in that case corporate America, wants to maximize its short-time objective is detrimental to its OWN mid and long term objectives .... (no more customers, no more earth .. )

Time to stop thinking ONLY with the checkbooks...

Oh and I already know the answer : I am a commie a socialist or whatever red hue, easier to label than think, always was, always will....

Have a nice day, anyway...

"Of course it is a well know fact that workforce is the ENEMY of the industry."

No, the workforce is *part* the industry. The problem is when one part of it weighs down the rest of it to the point where the industry can no longer cope. The auto industry is a prime example of this.

"Poor workers are happy workers ...."

On what planet?

"What should be done is that people should NOT be paid and shot if they strike"

Okay, now you're just being absurd... Was that your point?

"Of course the same would apply to YOU, your wife and children when off age because, you know it is for the benefits off all .."

You're back onto pensions now? Here's a thought; IRA, personal investments (*gasp* I know, these take some small amount of *PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY)...

"it is a construction built to maximize the happiness of its PEOPLE, not corporation, not some reduced part of its constituents ...."

Uh, the corporation is people too...they even *hire* people... If the corporation fails, who will provide the jobs? It's wither win-win or fail-fail. You are not entitled to more than the company is willing to pay. If you want more, (and actually have the skills and are willing to actually work for it) go elsewhere if your company is not paying you enough. Companies compete for employees just like they compete for market.

"easier to label than think, always was, always will...."

Think... You should try that sometime. ;-)

ATT workers are, indeed skilled workers (at least the techs are, that's the only ones I see, however)

Autoworkers (more specifically, lineworkers), not so much. Going to on the job training for a few weeks/month or two to screw in a few bolts does not make you a skilled worker.

I agree with the Unions are the bane of everything good in the U.S. A person should NOT make as much or more than a skilled job. Also, I work in healthcare, and *I* don't even get 100% of my healthcare costs covered... I think I have a 80/20 plan, and we can go as high as 90/10 (for a price!) There are many other nations that pay their workers A LOT less than "minimum wage" and they survive. If you don't like what wage you get after the unions go down in flames, then educate yourself, enroll yourself in a skilled job, or get into another industry!

As somebody else has already pointed out, they are part of the reason why so many jobs are outsourced these days. Not only do these companies not have to pay ridiculous wages, but they don't have to pay for the idiotic and unreal benefits these companies have to pay because of these unions. (The other reason for outsourcing is, of course, industry greed).

Unions definitely did a TON of good when the US could fire anybody for any reason, but there are now laws in many or all states that say you have to follow specific rules and guidelines for employment termination. There's even hostile workforce laws on the books... Unions are no longer needed, are a remnant of the 1930's, and need to be disbanded and/or outlawed. They serve no purpose other than to make everything cost that-much-more.

*waits to get flamed to ashes*

Edit: I think this is the one time I have agreed with PC_Tool. Not that I disagree with things he says usually, but this is one example of me totally agreeing with him.

The UK is as much of a reference model for a well working modern society as the USA. The social gap is extreme. Try a little more South East where you'll find the highest standards of living across most of the population - achieved with boring values such as work ethics and being proud of what you deliver rather than what comes out of your mouth ;-)

"achieved with boring values such as work ethics and being proud of what you deliver rather than what comes out of your mouth ;"

Sounds like the US...

...50 years ago.

Tool, funny you never here them mention anything about the net flow of the populations are based simply on visa applications, let alone where folks would go if they were free to move without official procedures.

In other words, are more Euros (and those from other countries) trying to permanently relocate to the US, or are more US citizens trying to permanently relocate to other countries outside the US? And of those who do settle for say the EU, what was their first choice of a destination?

So...how do we get more of those folks to opt for the other locations a few here suggest are SO much better? Seriously, take the surplus of folks wanting to immigrate here off our hands!

pc tool is a fool. a company is all it's employees. just like the USA is it's citizens, not it's government. the time of corporation worshiping is over. only 7-8% of the workers in America are unionized. that must change if we are to survive as a democracy.

Yeah it definitely needs to change. If we can get down to 0% we'd be perfect.

*laughing*

Do you know that Unions are the #1 reason the auto-makers are in need of a bailout?

Do you know that there is a strong, and likely to succeed effort in the current administration to kill the secret ballot in unionizing a company? Yeah...that's Democracy for ya...

Do you know that the US is not and never *HAS BEEN* a Democracy??

Of course not... I guess that pretty much makes *you* the fool.

...typical entitled trash.

It's not he unions that created this finalcial crises... If you want to blame someone try the unehtical and greedy, executives, owners, and investors who have raped and pillaged the worlds corporations. The manipulation of the news media by the political parties and corporate executives stokes the flames by pitting workers against each other therby dividing those with jobs against those less fortunate. Don't be blaming workers in america for this mess... BLAME those in power who have acted irresponsible in the face of the greatest economic crises in 3 generations.

The #1 reason why the auto industry is in need for a bailout is not because of the hard working people who built the vehicals,but because of the ignorant and hard headed corporate management officials who for years refused to engineer reliable vehicals that could compete with foreign competitors.

*laughing*

....or...

We could blame the actual cause of the busted bubble...artificially propped up housing market by the Clinton Administration. ;-)

Greedy execs? Wow... you've never competed in a high-powered corporate economy, have you? If you run say...AT&T, and want to hire a CTO, guess what? You have to pay *better* than anyone else in the industry to get the best person for the job. Greed has nothing to do with it, they just don't want minimum wage talent.

@ vt9010

Funny stuff. See above. Same applies. Take a look at the costs of benefits and wages vs costs of salaries at any of these places. (oh, wait, you wouldn't even know where to begin looking, would you?)

Yeah, thought so.

Bottom line, pc_fool, AT&T is not the auto industry, it is a "Telecommunications" company. There is quite a difference. AT&T is very profitable, the auto industry is not. I have this crazy notion that workers in America should earn a good living wage. Eleven bucks an hour? Is that supposed to be good? Where in the hell do you live? When in the hell do you live? Just calm down a little, turn off Limbaugh and FOX and try to think for yourself, pretty please?

"I have this crazy notion that workers in America should earn a good living wage. Eleven bucks an hour? Is that supposed to be good? Where in the hell do you live? When in the hell do you live?"

*laughing*

The minimum wage in the US is what, $7 something an hour now? So yeah, $11 for probationary ain't bad. Where and When? Minneapolis. Now. You should try living in the "Here and Now" once....

So...what makes the AT&T crowd more special than the Minneapolis crowd? Or the GM crowd (since you seem to think there's a difference)?

Nothing. They aren't special. They're employees just like the rest of us. Maybe, if they are skilled, hard working, or talented, they can rise above the rest. That's the goal. Not the entitled whine of "I should make as much as the CEO of AIG while flipping burgers 32 hours a week"....

And I thought only Libertarians knew about the democracy myth. I may have to vote you up, Tool.

Heh...

Why? It's not like they mean anything. ;p

In responce to PC Tool,it is pretty obvious that you have no idea as to the workings of the Bell Telephone wireline industry. The wireline network that was built over a century ago has been replaced over and over again because of the need to replace decaying and erroding copper cable. The copper cable network constantly needs to be repaired and replaced as the need arrises. These repaires are not magically done by themselves,it is done by hard working techs that are trained to do this kind of work.They do not sit around all day and insult or deprave hard working individuals as you do behind the saftynet of your PC Tool.

So they fixed it.

*laughing*

Never denied that. In fact, I stated that very thing (worked on it, supported it?)

But they still didn't "Build it". It is a statement meant to do one thing; Get an emotional response from the uninformed.

None of them built it. They just maintained it (as I believe I stated in my original post which you apparently couldn't hit "reply" to...).

So keep twisting. I'm sure it's about the only exercise you get...

*LOVE* the "We Built it" BS.

Funny as hell. How stupid do they really think we are? Bell Telephone was created in 1877. If any of those folks are still around, I would *love* to meet them.

No, you morons. You didn't build it. You worked on it, you supported it, just like every employee anywhere works or supports whatever function their company serves. You're not special. That's right. Mommy and Daddy lied to you. You're no more deserving of anything than *anyone* else. Get over it.

CORPORATE MANAGEMENT CLAIMES THAT AT&T'S WIRELINE SERVICES ARE DECLINING BECAUSE OF LOSS OF CUSTOMERS DUE TO INCREASED COMPETITION. I AM ASSUMING THEY ARE REFERRING TO DIAL-UP SERVICES,YET THEY CLAIM THEY ARE INCREASING THEIR CUSTOMER BASE IN DATA SERVICES SUCH AS "DSL" AND "U-VERSE". I THINK THE THE GENERAL PUBLIC SHOULD BE MADE AWARE THAT THESE DATA SERVICES ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE WIRELINE INDUSTRY, WITHOUT COPPER IN THE FIELD THESE SERVICES WOULD NOT EXIST. THE WIRELINE INDUSTRY HAS EVOLVED FROM DIALTONE TO DATA AND ENTERTAINEMENT TONE. NO MATTER HOW MUCH MANAGEMENT TRIES TO TWIST AND SPIN THE TRUTH,THEY CANNOT ESCAPE THIS UNDENIABLE FACT.

*laughing*

Nice.

Undeniable fact #2: The folks who worked on that copper and administrated those services got paid for their jobs.

So what do you want? The people there *now* to get paid for the jobs of those who did all the work? Or are you just trying to stir up an emotional frenzy "for all those hard workers who laid the copper wiring" (Bell Telephone Co. was created in 1877, 132 years ago...they're all long dead now)?

BTW: Caps Lock is not your friend, in fact, it is your mortal enemy and it made very disparaging remarks about your mother. ;-)

Hmmm, I suppose you live in an 1800s building with original outside plant. Me? I live in a newer area that had to be wired. Maintenence is always a nice thing to have as well. Course, I guess you could allow more illegals in and let them try their hand at it.

Better see about wireless first though...

Ask your local phone company when the original wiring in your area was laid. I bet it was *well* before your dwelling was built.

Sure, they probably had to run something from the street to the house (or maybe even from Main St. to the house), but the vast majority of it was very likely already there, quite possibly originally laid for telegraphs (More Code over wire).

For some (very) basic info on the wiring of the US, take a look here: http://inventors.about.c...entors/bltelephone7.htm

Better have tech support check to see if your Caps Lock is stuck.

pc tool-

yes, you show through your posts you are a tool.
I work for At&t, there are many issues re: this contract. please note (I'm guessing you don't or have NEVER worked for the company), the union is constantly working with the company. Last contract we lowered our raises to a bare minimum, to work together with the company. if we, the employees were told that the company's profits were being threatened to plateau, or decline, NO DOUBT we would work with the company again.

Since you dont know the facts nor read the annual report proxy, you dont know that our 2009 projected profits are to grow also (please see email frm CEO randall).

You see TOOL, you are not informed nor have you read anything truthful. when your ready to research your facts and go toe to toe with me on an educated debate reply back. maybe we can talk about the job security, cut to retiree healthcare, no pension for new hires or the many more covered in this contract..
AT&T OUTSOURCING IS MY FAV-

smooches
*laughing*

Couldn't stick to just once, you had to spam it?

Cute...

Take another look at that report you're on about. I guarantee a good majority of their "rising profits" are coming directly from their "plan" to lower costs. Did you even think about that? For even a second?

Nah....

Just another example of people collectively bargaining for more than their individual market wealth. One of the many inefficiencies in our society that forces the successful of society to subsidize the underachievers.

Um, the ideas expressed above are part and parcel of what got the US in the trouble it is in now. Even if the 'successful' paid their own way, they are malignant ingrates who should take full advantage of the opportunity to move to a market-based country. China.

*LAUGHING*

Yeah, the regulation of the housing market by the Clinton administration, offering zero-down, low-interest, high-risk loans to forestall a minor housing crash in the mid-90's was so *totally* market driven....

Not.

...Or were you referring to the current administration, In which case I'd have to agree with you...isn't symbolism over substance the essence of "marketing"?

pc tool-

yes, you show through your posts you are a tool.
I work for At&t, there are many issues re: this contract. please note (I'm guessing you don't or have NEVER worked for the company), the union is constantly working with the company. Last contract we lowered our raises to a bare minimum, to work together with the company. if we, the employees were told that the company's profits were being threatened to plateau, or decline, NO DOUBT we would work with the company again.

Since you dont know the facts nor read the annual report proxy, you dont know that our 2009 projected profits are to grow also (please see email frm CEO randall).

You see TOOL, you are not informed nor have you read anything truthful. when your ready to research your facts and go toe to toe with me on an educated debate reply back. maybe we can talk about the job security, cut to retiree healthcare, no pension for new hires or the many more covered in this contract..
AT&T OUTSOURCING IS MY FAV-

smooches
*laughing*

You might be a little more convincing if you knew how to compose a coherent message. You seem to state that AT&T's profits were fairly flat last year but are expected to grow in '09. If it's true have you thought about what that means? It means that unlike every other company, AT&T might actually survive the coming depression. But its going to take the continued efforts of everyone from the top execs to the lowest janitor working together. The bigwigs will definitely have to make some sacrifices, not to save any real money for the company, but to serve as an example for everyone else. Likewise, the unions must accept that its not 2005 any more. Seriously, would it kill anybody at AT&T to pay half the premiums that most working stiffs do? That would save your company hundreds of millions every year. Or you could strike during the worst recession in fifty years. You do realize that when companies start losing money, the first jobs to get the ax are front-line technical support and engineering, i.e. the skilled people. Sales is usually next, followed by middle management. Try putting yourself in the CEO's shoes: its a recession, and shareholders will jump at their own shadows. Trust me, you want AT&T to stay as profitable as possible right now. And I have to say, I don't have a lot of sympathy when you talk about "minimal raises". Do you know how many people are out of work right now? Do you understand how long its going to be before most of us see ANY raises?

He also doesn't mention that the profit report is assuming lower costs re: Healthcare....

Huh...go figure.

(but I don't know what I am talking about....)

I wish them well, but I recently lost 8,000 of my "highly skilled, highly trained" coworkers to a company-wide layoff at our telecommunications employer. Most of them are being replaced by outsourced, off-shored contractors that the company is probably paying a fraction of the American wages/benefits for, in order to to compete in the global market place with other low labor cost companies.

I'm sure many of my former telecommunications coworkers would be glad to have those low pay & benefits AT&T jobs, now that they have been collecting unemployment for a few weeks.

I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it seems to be an inescapable reality of life in the current economic times.

If my employer talks about cutting wages/benefits or suspending increases & bonus', I just keep my head down and work all the harder, knowing that my days too, are probably numbered.

I'm thankful that I still have a job, unlike many of my family, friends, neighbors and former coworkers, even though I don't get as much pay and benefits as I would like. The company has not paid raises in 2 years. At least I am still feeding my family (for the time being). And I still have decent medical care, even though I am sharing nearly half the cost of the health insurance premiums with my employer.

"Most of them are being replaced by outsourced, off-shored contractors that the company is probably paying a fraction of the American wages/benefits for, in order to to compete in the global market place with other low labor cost companies."

Let me pull the relevant bits from that: "In order to compete in a global marketplace"

Most folks here don't seem to get that. It's not just "The Good Ol' US of A" anymore.

The job losses suck, don't get me wrong. Having to pay for the majority of our medical expenses is a pain relative to the gravy-train we've had in the past to be sure....but it's still *far* better than the alternative.

Hope you make it through the next few rounds, keep yer head down, and dig in. Best of luck to ya!