RSSAdobe to Sue Microsoft for PDF Feature?
By Ed Oswald | Published June 2, 2006, 11:56 AM
Microsoft and Adobe appear to be headed for court after talks to include PDF support in Office 2007 broke down, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday. The dispute has been brewing for the past four months, Microsoft's lead counsel Brad Smith disclosed.
Smith said Adobe threatened to sue in Europe, and that the company was preparing for that eventuality. Adobe wants the feature removed and offered separately, which Microsoft has done. However, it also wants Microsoft to charge for it, which the Redmond company refuses to do.
While Adobe is not commenting directly, it says it is concerned Microsoft may use its monopoly position to lure users away from Adobe's own software. It would not confirm Smith's assertion that the company was planning on a lawsuit.
The issue seems to center around the saving of PDF. Word, Excel and PowerPoint could all be saved in the ubiquitous format through Office 2007. Such a feature could hurt Adobe, the company will likely claim, as its popular Acrobat software performs the same function.
"Increased partner competition comes from Microsoft integrating into Office or Windows stuff separately offered by other software developers. In the case of Adobe, PDF integrated into Office 2007 could deliver a double competitive blow," commented Jupiter Research senior analyst Joe Wilcox.
"First, there is Microsoft giving away for free something that Adobe now charges for. Second, PDF comes to Office at the same time Microsoft will make available its own competing technology. Presumably, Microsoft would make the experience of using its rival "Metro" technology better than PDF, at least within Office."
However, Adobe has freely offered the specifications on PDF to other companies. Apple's Mac OS X operating system has built in support for reading and saving of PDF files.
Microsoft said Adobe's complaints mean that Office 2007 would likely not be permitted to support the feature. The next version of the productivity suite is due by early next year.
"The story, whether uncovered or leaked, lets Microsoft take the position of the aggrieved party. Already, several major news services have picked up the story, which portrays Microsoft as the wronged party," added Wilcox. "Thing is, the story is much more complex...Microsoft has significantly stepped up competition--not against rivals like Apple or Google--but with longstanding partners like Adobe and Symantec."
That's actually hillarious...considering it's in Office 2007 Beta...lol. Which, BTW, is freely downloadable if you register for it ;-) Pretty slick UI, but it definitely takes more horsepower than previous versions.
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|... Adobe... I love your products, but this is ridiculous. OpenOffice supports PDF generation and there are open source PDF generation programs that can work with any application software.
I also do not like Microsoft, but I feel that 3rd party application developers for Windows who cry foul are lazy. Apple is gaining popularity by being able to freely bundle any applications that they choose with MacOSX because they are not held to the same level of scrutiny.
Court-cases that enforce that Microsoft make certain applications optional are positive. This is blatant desperation.
Adobe should look to innovate with their software. They've established the ubiquitous printable document format and won over the entire industry. It's natural for their format to be supported by other applications.
For Office to NOT include PDF and instead include XPF only will be a terrible move for Adobe who still have the ability to innovate on their format and software and add features to Acrobat that make purchase desirable.
Dumb Adobe.
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|I hate Adobe. There software sucks, and they first bought out Syriliam (spelling?) the makers of Cool Edit then they bought out Macromedia. There going to make both software bloated, buggy and run like sh!t.
PDF's are crap anyway. Not only is Acrobat bloated so are PDF files.
Quote from dizzy_davidh: "I've seen the new Microsoft XPF format contain 3000 pages of info (with graphics @ 300dpi) and still only be around 30mb. Try getting that out of a PDF!"
Nice! I've been waiting for something that can compress better than PDF's. I'll likely use this instead.
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|Poor Adobe. I already use CutePDF to create my PDF's. Print right from office to a PDF! What a bunch of cry babies. Your not the only game in town Adobe! Chill out
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|The only reason Adobe isn't out of business is because of Photoshop, and also because they bought Macromedia.
Photoshop is good but has never been worth $600.
This entire thing is dumb.
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|Can you hear it? WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Adobe is a bunch of cry babies.. They make enough money as it is.. Adobe Photoshop is so expensive I hear they are going to offer good interest rates on loans it takes to buy them.
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|How come you come out of nowhere whenever there is anything anti-microsoft in the press?
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|Microsoft to DROP PDF support, in Office 2007 and Vista 2007. So does this mean Adobe can drop their lawsuit?
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|Adobe dropped the ball on their own product a long time ago and I'm glad Microsoft is finally tackling Adobe's short sightedness.
Adobe keeps creating crappy cumulative upgrades and has very poor customer support along with, for my company anyway, a complete lack of understanding of their own products when they are requested for corporate assistance with their products.
Besides that their licencing scheme sucks.
It's just a shame that once again a format has become main stream (pdf that is) and yet no large firms have taken on the format, until now.
I've seen the new Microsoft XPF format contain 3000 pages of info (with graphics @ 300dpi) and still only be around 30mb. Try getting that out of a PDF!
It's just a shame that this will be put down by the media as another hostile action by Microsoft encroaching on someone elses turf instead of just hard competition.
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|All LINUX OS’s and Openoffice have rendered PDF documents for years. Moreover, there are GPL PDF printers for Windows servers too. I do not see how this case has any merit. After all, everyone creates PDF files. If Microsoft allowed users to edit PDF files, that would be news, this is just ridiculous.
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|This was on Slashdot earlier today, and *that* article (no, not Slashdot's summary, which is sometimes incorrect and which said something similar to this BetaNews story, but the original article it linked to--IIRC, it was from eWeek or something like that) said that Micrsofot *thought* Adobe would sue and that they are preemptively removing PDF writing.
But remember: Microsoft has an apparent PDF competitor called XPS (formerly Metro), and this is a convenient excuse for them to say "Adboe wouldn't let us" and make everyone use their format instead...
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|I'm pretty sure Microsoft isn't making anyone use their new format. If they removed .doc and .txt and .rtf then you'd be on to something... maybe
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|Micro$oft apologists? Incredible! It's true that the Capitalist will sell you the rope that you're going to hang him with.
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|If M$ added PDF support or not they would have gotten sued anyway. I mean didn't they get sued for adding their own media player to windows!!! How ridicules was that! M$ is where failing companies go to make money.
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|Opensource--free and open to everyone except Microsoft.
"The story, whether uncovered or leaked, lets Microsoft take the position of the aggrieved party. Already, several major news services have picked up the story, which portrays Microsoft as the wronged party," added Wilcox. "Thing is, the story is much more complex...Microsoft has significantly stepped up competition--not against rivals like Apple or Google--but with longstanding partners like Adobe and Symantec.""
Funny--they act like they weren't expecting this. Apparently they have never heard of OS/2 or IBM :-D
Really, though--how is it Symantec and Adobe believe themselves to be "long-standing partners" with a "monopoly"? They are saying "We cooperate with a company and can compete on the open market. However, they are a monopoly. That isn't a problem, except now Microsoft is actually making a good product now--so we shall sue the illegal monopoly that has been partnered with us." Hello?
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|Goodbye Adobe...
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|OpenOffice has been giving it all away for years. Not only does it read and write all Microsoft Office formats, it can also save in Adobe's PDF format. OpenOffice is free, it works on Windows, Mac OSX and Linux. Why throw your money away?
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|Or better yet, why doesn't Adobe go after the free, much more appealing, and much more threatening Office suite?
OpenOffice poses more of a threat to Adobe than MS Office IMO.
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|But they can actually get money from Microsoft, while OpenOfficeOrg isn't likely to have a large pocketbook. Even if they do, Microsoft's is bigger. Businesses want money, and unfortunately, the biggest industry today is known as the Frivilous Lawsuit industry.
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|bourgeoisdude nails it. Follow the money and you'll always find the answer.
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|Ummm...
PDF is an open standard file format.
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|umm..not IT's not. PDF was CREATED by Adobe, its not OPEN unless they SAY it's open.
Its proprietary, just because everyone LIKES to use it, doesn't presume its OPEN to everyone TO use.
You can use it.. at a price.
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|Umm... yes(t) IT is.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pdf
Portable Document Format (PDF) is an open standard file format.
If you look, you'll see that's exactly what I said. Certain features of PDF are proprietary, but the file format itself is an open standard.
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|We should change this Wikipedia entry to reflect this reality:
Portable Document Format (PDF) was percieved as an open standard file format.
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|I find this really funny. When MS didn't include other media player (real, quicktime, etc) and browsers (netscape), they got sued. Now MS is playing their games, and install third party's technologies along with their own, and they got sued. I guess some years down the road, when MS's new technologies drive out PDF, then Adobe can sue DOJ for approved their request for MS to removed PDF support in Office live.
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|Sounds like Microosft is including a third-party file format in its own software, not third-party software.
It's a similar situation to including its own web browser -- in both cases third-party alternatives are being specifically targetted and squeezed out.
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|"However, Adobe has freely offered the specifications on PDF to other companies. Apple's Mac OS X operating system has built in support for reading and saving of PDF files."
This paragraph says it all.
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|hummm doesn't OpenOffice have this feature? Why did Adobe remembered to sue Microsoft and not OpenOffice?
... oh right Microsoft has lots of money!
Greedy bas****s! ALL of them!
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|Adobe charges WAY too much for its product. After I installed Beta 2 of Office 07 and saw that I could export docs as PDF's I thought, "Wow, that's great! Way to go MS!" and in the back of my mind, I knew this was coming too. PDF is a great format, it should be made available to all. If they must remove it, I hope their new format kills PDF, then Adobe will wish they had stopped whining.
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|Hey look betanews has just showed that foxit pdf has a new version.
I better sign up for a year subscription to adobe because it will integrate in to office!
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|"Microsoft may use its monopoly position to lure users away from Adobe's own software."
Yes, geniuses--when Microsoft makes a product, unless it is a completely 100% original idea, guess what? It will take market share from the competition. When and if adobe makes a word processor program, it will take some (even if marginal amounts, it will take some) market away from Microsoft. This is what we call free enterprise.
Now--if Microsoft is stealing Adobe's stuff without their permission and is profiting from it, this lawsuit holds merit. Otherwise, Adobe needs to quit playing Socialist and compete fairly just as everyone should. Please do not veer that last sentence into becoming an off topic discussion as I will not reply.
"First, there is Microsoft giving away for free something that Adobe now charges for."
Microsoft Office--even Microsoft Works--is far from being "free". That's just a out-and-out lie.
"Second, PDF comes to Office at the same time Microsoft will make available its own competing technology. Presumably, Microsoft would make the experience of using its rival "Metro" technology better than PDF, at least within Office."
So now they admit Microsoft is a better innovater than they are, so THEY should be reimbursed for it? Socialism, anyone?
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|bourgeoisdude, actually the "free" giveaway is the "save to PDF" feature, which is what Adobe Acrobat does. And Acrobat is not free, neither is it cheap.
There's an obvious double-standard here on Adobe's part. There are so many companies out there who incorporate "save to PDF" as a feature in their software. Adobe seems cool about that.... except when it's Microsoft.
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|I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. EVERYBODY TAKES THIS AND THAT FROM MS AND FORGET THE FAIRNESS IN THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE MEGA BILLIONAIRES. I LIKE MS SOFTS AND APPLE IS NOTHING BUT STYLISH AND SUPER EXPENSIVE. APPLE'S CUSTOMERS SHOULD BE FOR PROFESSIONALS FROM MUSICIANS, PHOTOGRAPHERS, MULTIMEDIA EDITORS, ETC. WE (ENTERPRISES) MOSTLY NEED SOFTS THAT RUN POWERFUL MACHINES CAPABLE TO DO BUSINESS THAT REALLY MATTERS AND ALSO PROFITABLE. BRINGING ABOUT ALL THE MS' MIGHTY CAPABILITIES (EVEN WHEN ADOPTED AND IMPROVED FROM OTHER'S), MAKES EVERYONE'S WORK MUCH EASIER, WHETHER YOU ARE A PERSONAL USER OR MEDIUM BUSINESS OR A CORPORATE ONE. AS LONG AS THERE STILL IS VISIONARIES IN THIS WORLD LIKE BILL GATES, WE SHOULD EXPECT MORE BRIGHTER WAYS TO BE PRODUCTIVE. THAT'S WHAT MS IS ABOUT.
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|ah, the wisdom of bourgeoisdude... :)
Rational to the end.
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|I have no idea what you said because it's in all caps. ...and that's just obnoxious.
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|cutepdf
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|*The two companies have been in discussions over the use of Adobe's Portable Document Format, or PDF, within Microsoft's Office suite of applications, the Journal reported, quoting Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith.
Adobe wants Microsoft to remove the feature and offer Adobe's technology separately for a fee. Microsoft has agreed to remove the feature, but is unwilling to charge for it, the Journal reported.
In February, Adobe Chief Executive Bruce Chizen told Reuters he considered Microsoft to be the company's biggest concern. "The competitor I worry about most is Microsoft," Chizen said at the time.*
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|Acrobat is so vastly overpriced, I think I have to side with MS on this one. It's a major value to customers. Even half-assed pdf support like the free pdf-making software would be a huge blow. The death of PDF is that once it's made, most people consider it a locked form for most purposes. Then it's a race to make it into that form. Adobe's business is predicated upon companies being dumb enough to pay $400/seat for the privelige of making pdfs, when in reality, it's virtually free.
I'm with GoodThings... This is something where MS is doing good things for its customers. Since I know Adobe's own employees are often using Foxit, they have a house of cards... no better time than to call on your last resort -- lawyers!
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|Someone is suing Microsoft?!?! No way! I guess this means I should be able to sue them for posting script samples on their web site because it prevents me from competing in that market. I thought PDF was an open standard? Doesn't Linux have open source PDF creation apps out there? Is Adobe going to go after all those as well?
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|I think the headline should read:
"MICROSOFT SUED FOR LISTENING TO THEIR CUSTOMERS!"
-- Software Giant Microsoft, after listening to customers and giving them exactly what they want, is being sued for anti-trust charges by a company which over-charges for a product that they themselves hold a virtual monopoly on. Details at 11:00.
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|It sounds like Adobe didn't think all the way through what they were getting into(or playing tricks) and want to pull out of a deal to hurt the sale of the Office product - and may I add, very late in the game. What is up with that?
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|- I hope OO users will not troll about PDF missing in Office 2007
- If PDF is missing, people will start to use XPS (PDF-killer by MS included in Vista/Office'07)
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|Wow another lawsuit??? HHHHOOOOORRRRRAAAAYYYYY!
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|I'll bet that's exactly what MS is saying... lol
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