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Anti-MS Group Aims to Block Vista

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

August 9, 2005, 3:06 PM

UPDATED A public interest lawyer who is also intending to run as a Republican in the 2006 Illinois gubernatorial race is taking his fight to Microsoft in hopes of preventing the company from releasing what he calls "bad code."

Andy Martin of The Committee to Fight Microsoft on Tuesday announced his intentions to block Microsoft from releasing Windows Vista. Martin intends to ask Microsoft for an unconditional warranty that the operating system is free of bugs that could result in security vulnerabilities.

"Bill Gates sells the public defective products, and then expects us to spend years being his guinea pigs, while he corrects the myriad of defects and vulnerabilities in his defective code. This is mass consumer fraud." Martin argued.

"It is unacceptable corporate behavior. Over four years after Windows XP was released I still receive regular 'updates' and 'bug fixes,' which reflect a product that was originally scandalously defective."

Windows 95 was a "disaster" and Windows 98 only created new vulnerabilities, Martin said. He argues that no company in America gets away with selling a "defective" product the way Microsoft does.

Also called into question were Microsoft's claims that Windows XP could run on 128MB of RAM, encouraging the sale of underpowered computers by its partners. "The Committee to Fight Microsoft is launching a legal action effort to bar such practice, in advance, for Windows Vista. Bill Gates, you are on notice," Martin said.

In response to the allegations, a Microsoft spokesperson told BetaNews: "Building confidence and trust in computing continues to be one of Microsoft's top priorities and is crucial to the success of the technology industry as a whole. Over the past three years, Microsoft has implemented a range of new security programs, including the Security Development Lifecycle, which has resulted in measurable improvements in the security of Microsoft's software."

"While there is no such thing as a state of absolute security, Microsoft believes Windows Vista will be the most secure version of Windows the company has ever shipped," the spokesperson added.

Martin is a public interest lawyer from Chicago who has worked on several consumer rights cases, including antitrust lawsuits dealing with network television affliation agreements in 1969 and his own antitrust effort against Microsoft in 1998.

He announced an exploratory committee to run for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in Illinois in January of this year.

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By drexelxxxx

edited Oct 2, 2006 - 9:16 AM

...and with all of these comments; how much of this do you think is funded by microsoft?

Of course some of the people that have commented here are ignorant and comment on things that they know little about, but it is important to know that when you own most of the country (microsoft) that you can buy all the people in the world to comment how you want them to.

If you watch Jerry Springer or any network programs then you are one of these people. Just a little help for the special side of society.

Microsoft is bad for the economy it is well known and if you support them like sheep following the herd then you need to explore and research a little before you make a judgement on what technology is better. Microsoft has hypnotised most of everybody into thinking that microsoft is the way to go just like politicians.

I suggest getting a Mac OS if you want quality user-friendlyness and Linux if you are interested in how to modify your desktop how you want.

I am not taking sides, but I know i'm not taking microsoft's side because they have cheated and stole their way to their position and it is not a moral thing to do and I just don't agree with this kind of business hogging up the market with their bulls*** products.

If everybody would quit supporting what is robbing them blind under the radar, another business could step up with far better technology and there would be far more advancments in technology.

Note: what you see is totally different than what is running under the hood!!!

Score: 0

By vpointcon

edited Feb 23, 2006 - 12:26 PM

Some of you making bashes at Microsoft need to get educated. Take a look at where the state of technology is today. microsoft makes it possible for ANYBODY to use a PC to his or her needs.With an OS that anyone can use, you open the door to the tech industry to develop almost any type of software and hardware solutions you can think of. it also helps to ensure a constant cycle in the computer economy.All of you griping about prices, do you think companies would stay in business if they never made any money? Do you think I would have a job if I fixed my customers PC's for free? I am thankful that a company rose to the challenge of making it possible for the whole world to use a computer. As far as security problems are concerned, the peole out there trying to get past security aren't going to stop trying just because Microsoft came out with some new code. Security will be constantly changing throughout the years, and how will Microsoft know what to fix if they don't do testing outside of their own offices? Do you think their network is the same as a hospital's network? Or what about a shipping firm? Or a lawyer's office? You guys need to stop talking, and start doing. If you're so much wiser than the corporate ginat, how come John Doe's OS hasn't killed Microsoft sales, or changed the face of the industry? You whiners really make me angry!!

Score: 0

By avenger218

edited Feb 22, 2006 - 9:50 PM

windows vista must be faulty, I mean microsoft is sure doing a good job of hiding it from
the public by not releasing any public betas to the general public. If windows vista isnt faulty why dont they release a beta to the general public (and not just MSDN and technet subscribers) but post a download link on microsoft.com to prove it.

Score: 0

By crazyof

edited Jan 20, 2006 - 3:40 AM

ok1!!

Score: 0

By FReeZ

edited Nov 17, 2005 - 7:45 PM

Somebody must stop Microsoft from buggy software. Microsoft have a lot of money so why Gates doesn't do the betatesting using his own workers?

Why we must do his work for free? Not for free! We pay for Microsoft's errors! We pay using our Time, Nerves and Datas.

Our datas = our private
our private = not secure until Microsoft have too many errors in Windows

Microsoft must do the betatesting, we are not Gates slaves! Microsoft must release security bug free versions.

Do you like your privacy? Microsoft don't like your privacy but your money!

Score: 0

By FakeProductions

edited Jan 3, 2006 - 2:21 AM

well one thing, alot of people like to beta test, and I'm sure half the people you seen online with screenshots of beta software usually say leaked. as in they stole it, not payed. and as of there workers beta testing, what you think they dont? of course they do there testing there software probably every time they change somthing, there just having us test it to error proof it.

Score: 0

By tedm

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 9:10 AM

Another whining dog. There is no totally secured and bug free software. Look into NASSA or any other highest profile research, science or software house – every product put into a test – is evaluated on the base of balance – time, functionality, usability,… I ask all lawyers taking part in any software, engineering or science allegations – to be certified and completing university degree in particular subject of theirs interests. Nobody can take part in solving problem in area where his/her knowledge is limited to near zero.

Score: 0

By shortkid

edited Sep 1, 2005 - 12:47 PM

That guy is a joke, and btw, i am running XP on 128mb of ram and have also ran it on 64mb (as a test). STFU 'Martin' pmpl

Score: 0

By NotesAdmin

edited Aug 23, 2005 - 1:41 PM

Apple codes Mac OS X as essentially a proprietary software/hardware relationship. Apple spawns little to no technology vendors/manufactures. If Microsoft developed Windows XP or Vista to support MS hardware only, I doubt if large scale service packs would be necessary. So, apples to apples... Microsoft supports a much larger slice of tech-pie over-all, one Mac OS X is ill-equipped to serve.

Score: 0

By eracnid

edited Aug 21, 2005 - 6:04 PM

Well it seems to me a tight fight with vista issues,regarding open source and mac os they are perfect in their own ways,but dont u know every student in all over the world use computer with windows,The open source projects are not much earning fame as what MS did,
another than that,no OS supposes to give to extreme security,even ur linux -ubuntu,fedora,mandriva etc are effected by security flaws ,n even viruses are developed
simple rule is most of the hackers,crackers use windows to attack,as people are using windows than linux ,so if linux or mac being such popular as Windows now,u might see a dream that these open source OS"s are much effected with securities flaws etc,
Well i m using windows,ubuntu and fedora 4,but those programs that i can make work in windows
linux cant even think off,yeah its growning and needs a long time to compare with other OS's,
I support bill gates and its team ,regarding security ,u might need to know i didnt use any antivirus from the past 4 years,n my every windows is working fine!!

thats wht u called perfect surfing with windows!!!

Score: 0

By Linuxuser147560

edited Aug 19, 2005 - 1:14 AM

As much as I would like to see this happen... it won't. The sheep will continue to allow themselves to be led by the ding-a-ling by the likes of Microsoft.

Honestly why anyone would want to buy Microsoft anything now that Mac OS X is out there fully functional doing what Microsoft promises (and we know how those are kept...) better, faster, more stable and far more secure that Microsoft ever will.

Heck, even Linux is superior to Microsoft on many levels. Bottom line is I would like to see Microsoft broken and torn assunder for the ant-competitive nature they have innundated the market with. I would like to see them pay for the countless ideas they have stolen only to re-package as their own.

This was writtend from an AMD-64 powered Ubuntu 5.04 Linux machine. No Windows in my home since 2000!

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:11 AM

The first thing after seeing this is a car. I think most of you have a car, and have experienced recalls. Do you think recalls are simply patches and security fixes? To me they are. If Martin calls Windows Vista "bad code". I would certainly call his car "bad car" cuz I'm certain his car got recalls before too, and most-likely at least one light on his car got replaced due to failure.

Well he talks about unconditional warranty, remember how much we pay for the OS? Not even my insurance company offer this definite assurance when I pay them at least thousands a year.

Score: 0

By Jose

edited Aug 13, 2005 - 1:42 PM

Don't forget that a lot of patches come AHEAD of time, but people don't apply them. Windows Update has been a part of MS since Windows 98 and SP? for NT. MS should be thanked for all of their updates and giving users the free opportunity to update. Also, making Windows Update, and now Microsoft Update, available for automation is a great favor to us the users.

Also, don't forget that users don't OWN the OS; they are licensing it from MS.

Score: 0

By jdbrd

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 12:36 PM

I don't think Microsoft should be sued for anything. They have a right to put out product and the consumer has a right to buy or not buy that product. In most cases I don't want a patch unless it improves the performance of the OS. Nothing is completely free of bugs and it is good that Microsoft has concern for their product enough to try to improve it as they learn. Vulnerabilities are only there if you want to surf the net. A computer is completely hack, ad ware, virus proof if not connected to the intranet.

Score: 0

By peterfnet

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 8:58 PM

I'm curious how he is comparing this. Mac, *nix and other streamline operating systems NEVER stop releasing updates to potential security holes.

Score: 0

By mrksct

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 11:19 PM

Great!!! At least someone with guts and correct approach.

Being a software developer, working for safety crtical systems I don't beileve that people cannot write bug free software.

Guess what happens if a buggy software like any of the Microsoft stuff is used in systems is avionics, robotics, space crafts....

I do appreciate his effort, but going by history, I think Microsoft would not let him proceed much, after all it has plenty of cash.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:13 AM

I would agree on the part that Microsoft software are buggy, and if the problem is extremely minor, it wouldn't be fixed for versions (I can bring you a minor dialog problem for Notepad if you want). Martin got guts, but a wrong method and argument. I personally think his demand itself is flawed.

Score: 0

By randymorin

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 10:50 AM

If you don't like Windows, then buy a Mac. Complaining just makes you look stupid.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:14 AM

yes! or just switch to linux and see how it works out.

Apple is switching to x86 platform, time for stupid-looker to shape up themselves.

Score: 0

By Linuxuser147560

posted Aug 19, 2005 - 10:37 AM

" yes! or just switch to linux and see how it works out.

Apple is switching to x86 platform, time for stupid-looker to shape up themselves."

Been using Linux since 1999, been using Linux only with no Microsoft since 2000. Is there a point to your rant?

Score: 0

By NickatNite

edited Aug 19, 2005 - 7:46 PM

If you're not using Windows then where is your gripe? You don't even have a dog in this race - you apparently just like to gripe. Besides, I also work with computer controlled systems and I have NEVER seen one come out error free.

Score: 0

By mrappeal

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 12:22 PM

I am a lawyer too but I don't expect Windows to be 100% free of bugs. I also write a newspaper column on technology and write applications for use in my law practice. I expect no bugs in applications that I write and I expect it or something close to it in many specific applications that I purchase in stores but the operating system is a different story. Yes, I would like to see Windows have no bugs but the overriding technological problem is that Windows has to interface with many applications written by a huge variety of people and that makes uniformity of operation of a PC a near impossibility. What I smell here is just another obnoxious lawyer. I may be a lawyer but I certainly don't excuse the conduct of huge numbers of lawyers in trying to turn the technology world into a laboratory for frivolous lawsuits. Our courts don't have time for such foolishness and the major contribution that most lawyers have made to technology is, unfortunately, to impede its progress.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:16 AM

Agree~ Martin is just wasting $$ for popularity to me. He got guts, but got vulnerable argument to back it up.

Score: 0

By qwertyu

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 12:27 PM

info about Windows Vista - Longhorn is here:
http://www.windows-vista.host.sk/

Score: 0

By bigbadguy

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 9:06 AM

I love this BetaJokes.com !

This lawyer want to show the public that you can actually sue any company because their product was not 100% perfect. And being a lawyer can earn another buckets of gold.

Men! Let's hire him to sue all condoms manufacturer...

Score: 0

By mhambrecht

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 7:41 AM

I suggest that if you are going to block the sale of something that is inherently defective you might try condoms. There is no such thing as a secure condom yet we as men wear them all the time to have sex. Thus giving ourselves a false sense of security. This costs men and women lots of money every year. There are men out there who had sex while wearing a condom yet the woman got pregnant and now the man is paying child support, not the condom manufacturer who sold the defective condom. How about your car? No recalls? Your cheap DVD player still working after the ninety day warranty?
Now for my most disgusting attempt to shock you into understanding the problems of programmers.

Keep in mind most of the men and women working on Windows are creating something, not trying to destroy it, so they are not thinking of ways to attack it. However, there is a team of people whose job it is to break it, they find and fix what they can. What they are in fact up against is teams of people with nothing but time to work on a single way of breaking Windows. Now for the non-Winodws example of what I am saying: In 1966 work began on two large building designed to withstand fire, earth quakes, high winds even being rocked by an explosion. However, the architect who designed and built these buildings did not forsee that terrorists would sieze a 767 and a 757 Jet airliner and crash them into the buildings and after relatively short time both buildings collapsed killing thousands. Is Minoru Yamasaki, the architect, guilty of building defective buildings? How many times wwere pipes fixed in the towers? How many times was the wiring worked on? These are all examples of bug fixes and patches. I am sorry if my mention of the trade center towers offends anyone or disturbs them, I just believe we don't think of things Microsoft does in a true world light. I have am not a MS employee nor am I strictly a Windows user. I am in fact preparing to install two linux servers in my company because they are cheaper than Windows.
Please consider what other software out there is released and show me any that have not need patches and bug fixes.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:19 AM

The car example is just the first thing I think up after reading his argument. Your condom one is good too :D. Seriously, no one can make sure anything about computers, because there are so many little things that may go wrong. Who would have thought the inability to boot into Windows (or simply can't boot into anything including linux) is due to a partially-flied psu (power supply)!!? (My friend just got this on his desktop :P)

Score: 0

By Bozo3

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 2:25 AM

Strength to your elbow Mr. Martin!
MS has leveraged its position with bulk agreements to include the various US government departments, in order to swamp the "playing field". Despite all its efforts, I remain unconvinced of their operating system dependability, I have spent too many late nights re-booting, re-loading etc.
Dave...

Score: 0

By dwiezel

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 11:35 AM

I REPEAT:

Mr. Martin obviously knows nothing about software or the software industry. In this age of technological proliferation, can we trust a neophyte, so ignorant of reality to be in a position of authority? I think not! Although I am an independent, I am conserverative -- less means more as far as government is concerned -- just as the forefathers had conceived. I think we need to hear less about and from boneheads like Mr. Martin and more from people who understand technology, software, hardware and business and its impact on the good citizens of this country !

p.s. Perhaps you need training!

Score: 0

By MoRpHeUs2003

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 9:42 AM

Like people have said here many times before in this post. Microsoft doesn't have a gun to your head. GO with Linux. "I have spent too many late nights rebooting, re-loading, etc." If you are having this problem take it to a computer store. If your reloading your computer that often there has to be something wrong with the system. Or sometimes i hate to say it, its the user, Do a virus scan and a spyware cleanup. Check your hardware bud.

MoRpHeUs2003

Score: 0

By adimoga

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 6:58 AM

Every system has a bug, the system which rule us, the system teach us at school everyone has error. That is why we work hard to correct them and make thing better for the next genetration. It's easy to say that Windows has bugs and is not working correctly. I'm not apology MS coz i know they have lazy workers (thought in the country i live). That man act like an aggressive debugger who want to stop what.. the wheel to role? I think he want to make himself known which bring him popularity and connect his pocket wiht the cause "money". www.queen-beta.com

Score: 0

By maggrand

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 1:47 AM

He has absolutly right. Microsoft sells garbage to the people at an overprised cost.
The real cost for the next OS should be 0 dollars. So should Microsoft Office.

Well everyone else sells it for 0. So why not Microsoft ?

And u can get several hundred OS for free. So why is Microsoft so expensive. Greed is it called.

Stop accepting this low quality software. Rembmer it is only the OS we are talking about. Compare whith Linux. Some of you say it is more bugs in it. Well open your eyes. Linux is ONLY the kernel. Not the all around software. So take action and stop Microsoft bullying Monopoly.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:26 AM

hmm..... So you're the ones who believe 0 and 1 worth nothing. :) I would understand that if you use pirate software without feeling guity, but if you're using linux then you should know that codes DO worth some money, or at least "deserve" some money. There is always a desire price for every item you use - you cellphone, watch, tv, mp3 player, etc... so should software.

linux isn't free, though it's free for programmers to access. linux has became a commercial product, just like windows. And linux is definitely NOT just a kernel.

If you're supporting only because whether Vista sells or not is unrelated to you, then keep your opinion to yourself cuz you dont show a sign of contribution here. If you're actually using Windows, then switch to Linux~

Score: 0

By shy_one

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 5:10 AM

Think before you post you just said it yourself there are a ton of free OSes out there if you don't like Microsoft then don't buy it very plain and simple.

Don't even mention that it's just because of software that you are forced to use Windows if you look hard enough there is a Linux equal for just about every thing Windows has some better some worse.

Plus Microsoft is not the only one to charge for their OS ever hear of a Mac.

Score: 0

By MoRpHeUs2003

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 9:39 AM

All Linux Distros Arn't free. If you download Mandriva Linux they want you to join the club, and if you want Suse 9 pro you gotta buy it. Linux is supposed to be open sourced but its not totally. Get your facts straight before you post.

Thanks
MoRpHeUs2003

Score: 0

By super-lloyd

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 12:44 AM

BTW, I hate website where you should login, always forget my login / password and have to create new ones all the time!

Score: 0

By super-lloyd

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 12:44 AM

Uh?...
Is it a real news Website?
I mean it looks like a well made joke!

"The Committee to Fight Microsoft" ?! with one member right?

Anyway I had a good laugh reading that!

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:27 AM

haha~ I first readed it from a NG and thought it's a joke too. But I know this site is genuine so I don't doubt the genuity about this article.

Score: 0

By KHFleischer

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 12:11 AM

Martin seems to me to be the same type of lawyer who forced clothing makers to install those scratchy labels inside, the same type who tried to tell us that ladders would be safer if they bore lots of paper labels glued onto them.

If he thinks that making a perfect, foolproof operating system is so easy, why hasn't he created one? Until he does, I don't think he has a right to criticize hard-working engineers who do the real work.

Score: 0

By iamtux

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 11:05 PM

Wow, he sounds really naive about how the software business works. You CANNOT release a program that has no flaws or vulnerabilities. No matter how secure you make a system, there is going to be a flaw. Firstly, because its made by humans, who aren't perfect, so inherently, the system made by the human isn't perfect. No one could have foreseen back when XP was released that the Blaster virus would be written. If MS knew about all the vulnerabilities back then, we wouldn't need antivirus, firewall or ad/spyware removal software. Get real and know what you're talking about before you open your mouth next time. And good luck keeping MS from releasing Vista, that's about the most futile thing I've ever heard. Like trying to stop the rain from falling.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:29 AM

haha there is only 1 type of software that could be flawless - "Hello World!"

Score: 0

By Willit

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 12:59 PM

Republican gubernatorial candidate? Sounds like a dumba** democrat, ambulance chasing trial lawyer... can we say Edwards?

Score: 0

By mhambrecht

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 7:53 AM

Say what? A Republican sounds like a dumba** Democrat? Do you even have clue what you are talking about?

Score: 0

By Biohazard_2.0

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 9:02 PM

Well I guess HP& All Other Computer Companys should be sued for making "Buggy Software" that when they find a bug they fix it with patches. Yea right, this guys only after a quick buck and he'll loose anyways, he's messing with a 99BILLION DOLLAR company. He's not even half the laywer Bill Gates can hire! Think about this, all game making companys create update patches and repair patches every year, is he going to sue other concerned companys?

Score: 0

By dwiezel

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 1:58 PM

Great idea!!! Let's kill the American business infrastructure, sources of technological innovation and leadership in the world and let the Chinese, the Indians and Muslims overrun the country!!! Just kidding... ;-)

p.s. Perhaps they can live at Mr. Martin's house or better yet Justice David Souter's

Score: 0

By Biohazard_2.0

edited Aug 9, 2005 - 9:56 PM

Although I almost completally agree with John_T, I think that vista should be fully beta tested before its final release. All OS's have securty errors because of Code Crackers and sometimes Hackers. Think about it Microsoft doesnt know the future, they didnt kow about the sassar worm, or the virus win32.pinfi ECT. Microsoft creates patches because they are concerned for the OS user. If they didnt create patches and updates they'd be getting sued for NOT making them.

Score: 0

By lagmaster

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 8:43 PM

I think this guy should shut up and leave Mr Gates alone. He has done the world a favour, and nobody is perfect. While your system may have a small issue, it can be asily fixed by service packs and bug fixes. It's not like we have to pay for those, and it's not like when we buy the software, we expect it not to have some imperfections. Microsoft messes up a bit of code, an this "martin" fellow annoys people who are happy with what they have. We all have our problems.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:33 AM

k, I think it's a bad joke so please tell me to remove this if it's inappropriate.

"I think Martin fails to delete some sensitive materials like porn-images or 3rd-person's love-letter and instead moved them to recycle bins, and found by his wife..."

To him in this case it must be a mis-conception of clicking "Delete" key (or "Delete" on menu) that didn't actually delete the files.

Score: 0

By camerons

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 1:02 PM

As much as Bill, Andy, myself, and a few million other people want to see bug-free code. The reality is that anything as complex and widely-used as Microsoft Windows is bound to run into problems and exploits that are going to upset each of us. Including Bill himself. Andy and 'The Committee to Fight Microsoft' need to set the focus on the real vermin, the hackers and nit-wits that do their level best to destroy waht each of us rely upon in daily life. Terminix fights the termite, Maybe they should diversify into pest control for technology. Microsoft cannot be put to any higher standard than anyone else who releases software out there. If you don't trust Windows, try something else. The Macintosh is a very sexy alternative, Linux is sexy but the manual is required.

Score: 0

By garethnelsonuk

edited Sep 18, 2005 - 6:07 PM

Worms, viruses, script kiddies, Denial of service attacks are all symptoms of the problem - not the cause. If my car manufacturer put no locks in the car and I was unable to buy a different car due to none of the petrol stations in my area "supporting" other manufacturers (having been paid off by this manufacturer) should they be free of responsibility for not including locks?

The bugs in windows are the result of wildly incompetent programming which causes criminals to take advantage. But these criminals are the symptom, not the cause. Many people are forced into using windows for compatibility reasons - hardware manufacturers are afraid to challenge the almighty microsoft by releasing drivers for other systems. Some even refuse to release specifications to enable open-source development of drivers. The "microsoft tax" is well-known, and it is almost impossible to buy a machine without windows. To many newbies, windows is the only OS in existence. And let's not forget microsoft's lock-in tactics and other dirty tricks:

www.opensource.org/halloween

I support martin, and will never support an organisation such as microsoft.

Score: 0

By Aaronjk

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 5:59 PM

The only way to make an operating system even close to secure is to require the morons like Martin to obtain a licence to operate machinery!!!! Too many idiots are out there thinking that they should just get it and never keep it up to date, etc. Do you think if they bought a car and never changed the oil they could sue the automaker???? The computer requires UPKEEP!!!!

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 6:32 PM

hmm... that's actually a really good point. Maybe people should have to obtain licenses before they connect to the Internet lol.

"Your (Internet) license is a privilege; not a right"

Instead of speeding tickets, you could get spamming or virus tickets.

It's funny to think about anyway...

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 7:26 PM

I've been saying it for years, people should be required to take a course on computer safety before being allowed to bring one home from the store.

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:37 AM

well, to me the public knowledge for technology now is extremely minimum. Last 10 years we didn't even have USB... Most people are now just beginning to use computers like my parents and they have absolutely no idea what can actually go wrong. For people like them, computers are like tools, and tools are rarely go crazy (or else just get a refund)~

If our generation becomes older, we wouldn't be so ignorant about computer securities cuz we're facing it in daily basis, and so will our children~ It will certainly be a better days later :)

Score: 0

By dwiezel

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 5:54 PM

Final Comment :: I have never had problems with SP1 or SP2. Nor have I had any problems with Windows Server 2003. I hope that Microsoft continues to innovate and improve on existing platforms while readying the world for Windows Vista -- Software is a journey, not a destination... :-)

Score: 0

By leojei

posted Aug 18, 2005 - 1:42 AM

Seriously, 1 router and a good surfing habit is enough for comp securities nowadays. I'm not whinning about my luck nor my habit, but it's just a fact that I have never got a virus/trojan/worm/unwanted toolbars.

To me, internet is still safe as no hacker would actually target my computer or at least try crashing my router. Everyone get these little unwanted guests in their computer is because of things they did before - clicking the wrong button, viewing the wrong email, trusting the wrong website, etc... The OS is solid and I'm happy to see further security is implemented into Vista.

Score: 0

By qwertyu

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 5:36 PM

info about Windows Vista is here:
http://www.windows-vista.host.sk/

Score: 0

By SamiChang

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 5:33 PM

Weird people...when no one is actually *FIGHTING* with MS everyone blames and whines at MS and now the hero Mr.Martin will be the man who will fight with MS and take advantage for the rights of most consumers but damn people changed their mind and giving mercy(lmao)... they go like "maybe MS Windows XP is ok just my systerm is piece of cr*p or either their less of computer knowledge." People think about it... it's not Martin is fighting for perfect software or OS...it's all about the mega bloated Windows XP... people should watch the tour of XP....does XP match anything like they mentioned on the flash video tour or anything like damn advertisments? Security? Stability? lmao u can simply get your computer infected with damn spywares by using IE surfing on the internet(yeah now people wiill whine that they could use other browsers instead like FF Opera)....sometimes a simple click could crash your whole systerm(yeah don't click it;) ) lmao does those match how they bloated about XP's security and stability? and the SP2 omfg do i need to mention more ;) MS could be a bit more sincere to their consumers and more responsibility for their products!
No offence to anyone here ;) Peace love and computer ;)

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By dwiezel

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 5:28 PM

Yesiree... Politix is strange voodoo... Perhaps Mr. Martin is perfect for the job! LOL

p.s. We need to support American companies in this increasingly outsourced world... We need to build mindshare, expertise and experience here at home!

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By Phil in North Bend

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:03 PM

Most of you have commented make the mistake of thinking that Mr. Martin believes there is any validity to his demands or that he has any expection of winning. I would be willing to bet that he doesn't even expect many Illinoians to be sympathetic to the effort (since most people will see his demands are idiotic). The ENTIRE PURPOSE of this lawsuit to generate NAME RECOGNITION. If someone has never heard of you, he or she is not going to vote for you. Once someone has heard of you, (even if the initial impression is that you are an idiot) you can begin to reshape your public image. Crazy...like a fox.

That said, I don't think he'll dig himself out of the "idiot" hole he's making for himself, but stranger things have happened in politics...

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By earthstar

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 5:05 PM

You guys are missing the point when you say 'If you don't like Windows, don't buy it'. Microsoft has an illegal monopoly (not my opinion, this was determined by the DOJ). We are forced to use their buggy products, and by the time they get a product stable, the forced upgrade cycle begins. Throw away your hardware, because MS is too lazy to write tight code that will run on anything but huge machines...etc.
I agree with Martin.

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By BenN

edited Aug 27, 2005 - 6:11 PM

"Microsoft has an illegal monopoly (not my opinion, this was determined by the DOJ). "

Erm.. No it wasn't. The original decision was that MS had an illegal monopoly and thier punishment was going to be to get split into seperate companies. But a year or so later a different judge over-ruled that decision. So no, MS don't have an *illegal* monopoly.

As for Mr Martin. What a twat.

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By MoRpHeUs2003

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 9:29 AM

You got to be joking me right? You must be on the same thing martin is on. You obviously don't have a clue here. Ok so lets just say they release vista, three months later a new virus comes out. Should microsoft protect its product at its release date of a virus or problem that won't come up in three months? I think not. I believe Microsoft is doing a great job in keeping updates going.

MoRpHeUS2003

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By greensabath

edited Aug 11, 2005 - 1:27 AM

..forced to use their buggy products..

Umm....is Microsoft holding a gun to your head...I think not...so you are not forced to use their products. If you buy a new computer...just install the oh so easier to use Linux on it. Face it, Microsoft has made the computer much easier to use, which is one reason why they are a monopoly. Linux would be a real competitor only if all the Linux distributors would get together and make a streamlined version of linux that would be as easy as windows to install and use.

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By thiebaude

edited Aug 9, 2005 - 9:49 PM

If I felt this way about MS then I sure would be on a MAC instead of XP.

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By dwiezel

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 3:16 PM

Mr. Martin obviously knows nothing about software or the software industry. In this age of technological proliferation, can we trust a neophyte, so ignorant of reality to be in a position of authority? I think not! Although I am an independent, I am conserverative -- less means more as far as government is concerned -- just as the forefathers had conceived. I think we need to hear less about and from boneheads like Mr. Martin and more from people who understand technology, software, hardware and business and its impact on the good citizens of this country !

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By MoRpHeUs2003

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 2:58 PM

You gotta be joking me right? Not release vista. Man this guy must either be Brain dead or bored. Mr. Martin, I work in a computer store that sells Microsoft Windows XP. There is no way in the world that you can make windows xp bug free. There is no software engineer out there that can make every system perfect. Differences in Hardware, how it communicates with the operating system. You really gotta hand it to microsoft though, they have greatly improved their product in the last few years. Taking the leap from the Fat32 file system and standardizing NTFS is great. As well as how windows reads memory. No more 640k base memeory now the machines use all of it. Alot of the time from past experiences is not microsofts fault, its the users fault. If a user installs spyware or gets a virus its the users fault, don't blame microsoft for that. Which brings me to another point Mr. Martin. Like anything sometime you get a defective part. Lets say your computer is locking up and you have a bad peice of ram. Is it microsofts fault, HELL NO, They even posted a Windows Memory Diagnostic tool to help you test memory. And one more thing, don't go after microsoft go after the spammers, spyware creators, virus creators. Nothings perfect.

If your going to make any assumptions Mr. Martin get your facts straight first. Go and do a 2 year computer course and then try the lawsuit, I think you will not even bother then.

Thanks folks and have a great day.

Happy computing!!

OH YEAH, IM CANADIAN, but if i had a guy like that running for Premier, id start asking questions quick. use your money for better things, like schools and poverty.

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By cold_realms

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:59 PM

The only way for a company to make software that is 100% bug and security risk free would be to release software that only ran on 1 hardware platform (1 manufacturer for each component) and only interact with its own software. We want compatibility, and we want choice in components. We ask for these problems because we are unwilling to be so locked into just one thing.
For a quick case and point, the XBOX. It is a computer using strick hardware designs and software only designed with microsoftes hand (the XDK and test labs) how many times has your XBox crashed, or been hacked (not counting your own modding attempts)?
I would like to see any company on the planet make an operating system that runs on billions of hardware configurations, with billions of driver combinations and be compatible with hundreds of thousands of software titles from different companies right out of the box, and is user friendly enough for Grandma to use, without bugs or security risks. Many people point to linux and mac as "well they did it", niether of these fit the same bill that Windows does for compatibility, usability, and choice.
This guy is simply clueless as to the real world, and so is anyone who thinks that something should work flawlessly all the time and over time as threats change. He probably blames the city of New York for not making skyscrapers capable of withstanding an airplane impact.

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By Maxwolf

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 3:07 PM

"The only way for a company to make software that is 100% bug and security risk free would be to release software that only ran on 1 hardware platform (1 manufacturer for each component) and only interact with its own software."

It's called Apple Computing. Even that is not safe these days!

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By T-Bear

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:38 PM

If'n you don't like the software, don't buy it {growl}.

This exploratory Republican is an exploratory Democrat in disguise.

¤§ TBear §¤

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By zenarcher

posted Aug 11, 2005 - 6:45 AM

I think you are correct. If he were truly a Republican, he'd be protecting corporations and devoting his efforts to creating bogus "evidence" to attack other nations. He certainly wouldn't do that to a corporation!

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By scooby_doo

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:33 PM

What? I am sorry Mr. Martin your dream of a bug free Microsoft or any other software applications is just that a dream. I am a computer science student, I do not know of a single OS that does not have frequent updates in fact I expect and want them myself.
I also work as a part-time programmer in our engineering faculty and although we try very hard to find and fix all bugs before launching a new application bugs inevitably show up.
Application development is not like building a car or any other engineering effort. We are dealing with many factors that add to the challenge of building bug free code. Factors such as application complexity, staff turn-over, Operting System platform differences, programming language choice, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on.
Software Engineering is a difficult and complex subject and any Computer Scientist or Software Engineer will tell you that while it is very important to perform proper application design bugs will show up, in case of Microsoft they are attempting to build a platform that , unfortunatley :), is being used by approx. 85-90% of the computers in the world......it may not be that high but they have leading market share that is for certain. Trying to develope an application that is going to be used by so many people for, I would argue, infinite possible uses is extremely difficult if not imposible.
Perhaps your efforts should not be directed towards Microsoft but towards schools to help fund scientists who are working on problems such as this. Instead of yet another Microsoft law-suit spend the money where it will likely do you more good on education.

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By death

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 2:39 PM

Here's my response to Mr. Martin: http://cygdev.blogspot.c...ista-from-shipping.html

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By death

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:40 PM

Sorry. Didn't log in correctly.

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By kipdynamite

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 1:44 PM

Weird, usually these anti-Microsoft types lean towards the Green Party...

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By gawd21

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 1:32 PM

Everyone should stop breathing Oxygen and we should kill all organisms that produce it. Oxygen fuels fires and is corrosive. R- John Doe for IL

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By mikebricker

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 1:23 PM

I'll tell you what. If this idiot gets elected, he can ban the sales of Vista only in Illinois. We'll see how much his constituents like that idea.

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By pafinator11

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 12:11 PM

I hate Microsoft. But as much as i wish they would fall this is 100% bogus. Every company has the right to sell a bad product. It is 100% up to the consumer to purchase what they want. That is why I use linux because I have a choice. Just like every other American Citizen. If you dont like Microsoft dont buy their product. Plain and simple. This guy is an idiot.

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By fedor_andres

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 11:34 AM

he want's more money!!!!.....THIS IS SO STUPID

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By M1M2Z1

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 11:33 AM

A dumba** republican?
Hmmm, imagine that.

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By DLT9358

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 11:15 AM

This is stupid. It is the same as telling Firestone that they can't sell a new tire until they fix the old ones.

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By mhfreak

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 10:56 AM

I think he needs to go after car manufacturers as well. I have needed to take my car in twice for company issued repairs. Nothing is perfect. Everything has some type of defect. At least with Microsoft there is an automated mechanism for repairing any bugs or vulnarabilities that may appear. It should also be noted that the bulk of the "fixes" that MS issues are due to hackers who have nothing better to do than ruin the lives of other individuals for no apparent reason. Perhaps Mr. Martin should focus his attention on removing the hackers instead, who cause millions of dollars of lost revenue to companies, instead of the Microsoft. It has always been my impression that Microsoft is highly respectible company when it comes to identifying and repairing errors or vulns in their OS's. Is this guy only going after Microsoft because it's the biggest? What about Sun, Oracle, Apple, Baskin Robins (sorry, Linux) and other manufacturers of software? Does he intend to force them to do the same thing? I doubt it...Sorry Mr. Martin, but you don't get my vote....

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By GeorgeSantayana

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 11:06 AM

There is no such thing as bug-free software, with respect to security or anything else. I challenge anyone to find a CompSci professor who says otherwise.

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By mfetzner

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 10:58 AM

This guy is crazy and does not understand software. You can't force GM to issue an unconditional warranty that your car won't be stolen or won't involved in an accident caused by a third party. Software vulnerabilties are explored by people willing to do so. Technology will be always "hackable".

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By sheppe

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 10:57 AM

This Martin fellow is a dumba**. An OS is NEVER going to be 100% foolproof - especially not one that is used by hundreds of millions of users. He's just trying to stir things up to win an election out of the ignorance of the general populace.

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By alfredtwo

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 10:40 AM

Will Martin offer an unconditional warranty that no law he ever votes for will be overturned by any court? I mean fair is fair.

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By frankwick

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 10:55 AM

This guy is too late to the game and is starting to look like an idiot. True, the corporate roll-out of 95/98 was a mess, but that was 10 years ago. MS has made huge strides, so has everyone else. I'm not a MS fan, but Windows Server 2003 is one of the best opearting systems I have ever used. It is stable and secure, but new threats pop-up and the OS gets patched.

If he were to hold MS and Apple and anyone else to this high of a standard, then software costs would be so high that no one could afford a computer. Actually, the software would never be released at all since bug-free code doesn't exist. There is no such thing as bug-free code.

MS has bugs. Apple has bugs. IBM & Sun have bugs. Linux distros have bugs. As the popularity of alternative systems begin to grow, then you will see more security breaches in these systems as well.

I am thankful for software updates. Not only does it patch bugs and new security holes, but we occassionally get new features.

AndyforIllinois is ignorant.

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By Maxwolf

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 10:53 AM

Preach it!

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By Maxwolf

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 9:56 AM

Alright, for those of you who are trying to figure out all these comments here is a breif re-cap.

1. This guys e-mail addy is: andyforillinois@aol.com. Which explains his level of computer literacy to the rest of the world.

2. This man might in his mind believe that buying a computer is like a TV. You buy it and use it until it breaks. That is not the case of a computer which might be easily confused by someone from his domain.

3. Nothing is ever 100% secure, but you knew that. I hope.

A classic example of ignorance in the Information Age .

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By jbaltz69

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 9:41 AM

How the hell does a politician know what good or bad code is? This will be another good waste of tax payers money in the state of Illinois when this goes to court. News Flash Andy, NO CODE IS PERFECT IT IS MAN MADE!!!!!

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By ajhome

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 9:32 AM

Oh ok am I missing same thing? you guyz pick on microsoft for bring out bad software. Has any one look at linux? or maybe MACOS X 10.4. Linux is most bugges unuserfriendly system out there. In my job I seen recall of linux server running redhat that cost $11 million in total and recalled because patching and bug issue. There server setup by linux pro's and was partership with ibm. The servers where reghost with windows 2003 server. There soo many bugs from not being able to boot after patch was install to slow network down 80% because of bug in swat proxy program. it was joke. and has same seen about of patchs for linux that send out a day. how come microsoft is getting pick on. look at linux. SUSE 9.3 pro is unuseable almost by default. Macos X is no better. There been lot of bugs come out of it. from wireless issue and system locking up after 10 mins. on my macintosh laptop it has caps lock bug. the point is no OS or program is bug free. and you guyz can go on and on how microsoft software is sooo buggee but maybe you guyz need to relook at others. I'm not saying microsoft is better. It's fact that microsoft is being piced on because it larger then others. look at linux and MACOS X, and other systems then rethink your view. because you can't tell me linux has no bugs your lie to your self.

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By PhilTR

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 10:00 AM

All linux type OS's are "FREE". You only pay for support and only if you want support. Linux is "OPEN", you can "LOOK" at the code and you can re-write the code to fit your particular needs. You can "give back" to the community for your free copy of the OS by giving the community the code you wrote. Lets see MS water carriers match that.

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By Maxwolf

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 10:17 AM

Yeah and as a hacker I could LOOK at the same code that others do and look for holes and subs and functions that could easily be exploited.

If Linux was as widley used as Windows is then there would be so many exploits and bugs that you wouldn't be safe online or not.

Firefox is starting to show signs of this now as it reaches, what...almost double-digits in percentage terms?

Open source works, just not for core operating system componentns. I don't like the idea that anyone can look at any part of the operating system all the way down to I/O code to control HD head read/writes to something as vague as a shell component.

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By PhilTR

posted Aug 10, 2005 - 8:33 PM

Just how widely distributed does Linux have to be to become as riddled with viri as Windows? I would imagine Linux would be suseptible from day one and yet Linux is relatively free of the maladys suffered by Windows users. I suspect that the reason Linux is free from 98% of viri is because Linux is designed differently. Also, talking about taking advantage of Open Source code vulnerabilities and actually taking advantage of these alleged Open Source code vulnerabilities are two diffent things, now isn't it?

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By crythias

edited Aug 10, 2005 - 2:28 PM

The difference is that *everybody* has the same opportunity to look at the code in Open Source Software, so that instead of just a few hundred paid programmers with a nondisclosure agreement, the potential for thousands, even millions of people to look at the code and report back findings and fix problems, either personally or as an official patch... that is the big deal.

The idea that a hacker can make exploitations without