Damn you guys are dumb. How old are you guys? 12, 13??

"My dad drives an Audi...yeah well my dad drives a Mercedes so he's better than your dad!!!"

Having pointless arguments is what the Internet was invented for... or something

We'll just let the Apple sites speak...

"Benchmarks of 2009 iMacs, Mac minis show negligible speed-ups"

"Although Apple is touting the performance of its new iMac and Mac mini desktops, a new test shows that newer processors from Intel have had little impact on the computers' true speed."

""You might be better off getting a discontinued (or refurbished) previous-generation Mac rather than one of the new Mac models," the company says."

http://www.appleinsider....gligible_speed_ups.html

That's great, anyway what else can you expect from iCrap? I am sure it looks slicker and sexier (case) than older Macs, that's the reason you should buy it LOL

The Dell Dude complains about Apple.

What else can we expect from you, troll?

Go play with your overpriced underperforming Dell with the proprietary components that limit upgrades. This guy isn't even smart enough to build is own machine - or have one built for him with open parts.

Its sad when such a limited afterthought of a scripting 'environment' can keep this sad sack happy. Oh, but it hurts so good.

LOL!

"This guy isn't even smart enough to build is own machine - or have one built for him with open parts"

Huh, did I ever say that fartfyre? I have built my own machines. I still have one, it's a p4 (1.79 Ghz) machine (x86) with intel d845pesv motherboard. Anyways the reason I went for DELL XPS H2C is because it had Intel Core i7 EXTREME processor factory overclocked to 3.73 Ghz, two-stage H2C cooling system to keep my system overclocked and nVidia GeForce GTX280s SLIed. Do you know the meaning of SLIed? So you call that an under powered machine? idiot By the way can you maunually build your own Mac? Dude, I am not a DELL guy and neither their fan. I just love to hate CrApple. Are you still waiting for x64 snow leopard? By the way I have Vista x64, Server 2008 x64 and Windows 7 x64 beta installed. CrApple are busy copying features from Windows 7. They have already copied Aero peek in Snow leopard and it's just a matter of time they will claim Microsoft copied from them. But when will they implement or copy BitLocker in Crap OS X? Seems like none of the CrApple coders out there are smart enough to make such an innovative feature. LOL

Nimrod, I have been living with AIX since the early 90's when we had 32/64 bit 13 years ago. And usi9ng MachTen's BSD environment on the Mac.

Ever hear of the IBM RS6000SP?

Compare your Dell toy with that.

And all the whiz bang features, including the overclocking management tools are BUILT INTO THE ASUS MoBos, so it doesn't take Dell to configure a proprietary version of an i7 based computer - you complete and utter nitwit!

And yet you think I am an Apple fanboy - I guess because I have SO MANY nice things to say about their hardware. LMAO!

The ONLY reason I care about the Apple is that OSX IS a good OS - with MANY advantages over your Windows. So, fanboy, tell us about your fancy Windows terminal and scripting environment! LMAO!

And the nitwit thinks he has to go with Dell to get what is already integrated into Asus (and other's) MoBos! And they also include BOTH SLI AND CrossfireX on the same MoBo - unlike your deadend Dell POS.

"OSX IS a good OS - with MANY advantages over your Windows"

really? what are they? let me guess: more hardware support than Windows, 64-bit kernel, mind blowing games, SLI (dual or quad) or CrossFire support, more applications for Mac OS X so I don't have to run VMWare to run applications like 3ds max, Autocad, BitLocker so that I can encrypt my drives and now even flash drives etc (Bluffing)

Oh man that makes Mac OS X so great and that's why it has so much market share than Windows, that's why businesses have always embraced Mac including Intel, AMD, Symantec and so on. That's why I only see Mac OS X in every banks that I have visited. (Bluffing)
That's what you think right?

They all use Windows in their workstations not that disabled iCrap with crap OS X. That makes OS X so great that it really sucks. If it was so great, why it has so little market share? oh yeah Mac OS X does have better looking common controls and is more secure than Windows. Talk about viruses, I use Vista x64, Server 2008 x64 and 7 x64 w/o any anti virus and have never had any virus infection. If I do have to run unsigned (unknown sources) PEs, I disassemble and analyze it via OllyDbg then run it and if it's too big and time consuming to disassemble and analyze I simply run those applications in Virtual PC. And with the release of Windows 7, crap OS X's small market share will even go DOWN. LOL

As usual, the dimwit runs to compare desktops and his game platofrm.

Ever hear of UNIX?

Have you ever seen what runs the largest databases and backends? It ain't Windows, Nimrod.

'Yeah, but do backends or massively parallel distributed environments have SLI?'

But the poor dweeb can only debate his Dell against Apple. A nonstarter of an argument as neither overly impress with their underwhelming hardware.

And x86 architecture is not limited to either OS you fool.

The joke is that this guy has never known anything but his Dell desktop, nor worked in any other environment than Windows.

Poor culturally deprived shellshocked.

Its a big world out there. Get out and see it some time.

hey kiddo shut up

"And x86 architecture is not limited to either OS you fool"

fartfyre barks again, did I ever say that? idiot. By the way we were comparing PC with iCrap, got it? LOL

Did you ever say that?
Funny, your ENTIRE world view is Windows versus OSX.

Its not for others. But OSX allows for those to either choose between them, or even more significantly, to use a platform that can natively move between Windows and UNIX natively and transparently - without the need for terminal emulation.

But you obvioulsy don't understand that.

Thus, an Apple machine that runs Both Windows and OSX WELL, IS important. And just as importantly as running each separately, it is important that the machine support the concurrent use of Both OSes in a VMWare or Parallel environment.

As unfortunately, Apple is justifiably afraid to openly release OSX for x86 for fear of losing hardware sales - as then few would care what Apple is doing with its hardware.

such as what advantages are you talking about here

Advantages? Depends upon what you are doing.

If you work with media files, the Mac has the state of the art DAW and DAV software and addons.

If you work with enterprise systems as well as mixed environment desktops, you can communicate with Windows natively WITHOUT terminal emulation - a MAJOR advantage. And of course you can talk to any of the Linux/UNIX systems natively.

Additionally you can run most of the Linux/UNIX software on the Mac as well.

And if you are an admin, you can remotely admin and manage mixed Windows, Linux and OSX desktop environments. Not to mention that OSX, as UNIX, is a scripting environment with the FULL Unix capabilities available via terminal sessions.

Or, if you are 'juat a user' you have the advantage of having the best of all worlds on a Mac as you have the choice to run Windows, OSX, and Linux separately or concurrently.

Thus the necessity that the Mac support all of the environments in hardware - not just OSX.

Unfortunately, Apple has chosen to use the TCM to authenticate OSX to the Mac instead of licensing it separately. A limitation that puts much more pressure on Apple to get their act together and to offer a true desktop replacement laptop that actively competes with the best of the PC versions available. Especially as a high end laptop must support not only OSX but Windows and Linux as well - both with hardware support and with adequate resources to support their concurrent operation. And at which Apple has failed as they have paid more attenntion to the iPod and iPhone markets.

If your needs don't extend to any of those uses, a budget whitebox just might do it for you. For those who need more, few alternatives can compete - and Windows only or Windows/Linux is far too awkward and limited as far too many obstacles remain for them to work seamlessly together. And you still lack the myriad additional software tools, many of which are best of breed, offered by the Mac library.

"and Apple literally offers a 4GB RAM upgrade for the OBSCENE price of $1000!!!!!"

The 4GB could mean either total RAM or 4GB the difference between the base and the total.

Either 'upgrade of 4GB' or 'upgrade to 4GB' clarifies the meaning. As you can see, you have neither.
Upgrade means "rise" or "raise", and qualifying whether it is a raise to, or a raise of is necessary to clarify the point.

Anyway,

"Just follow your posts...you haven't offered an original thought yet." he says.

"Interestingly, as DDR3 likes to be installed in 3s, 8GB is an odd number for them to offer an upgrade to."

I don't see anyone else mentioning this. And you quickly elaborated on the point and pretended it was your own (or so it would seem).

I also point out that mobile processors generate less heat, and within the enclosed system of an iMac this is the reason they are being used and the i7s (which aren't available in mobile form, as you kept saying) aren't.

Paul, I can't believe that you are so stupid as to be debating this.
Here. read it as posted on Apple's website for the 24" iMac.
http://store.apple.com/u...B420LL/A?mco=NDE4Mzg5OQ

Memory
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB [Add $1,000.00]

Note, for those as slow and illiterate as Paul (you have my condolenses - as soon as I can stop laughing...) - the base RAM for which you have no other choice unless you select a total of 8GB - and here's the hard part - so sit down and we'll go slowly:

The base default configuration consists of 4GB DDR3 RAM.
The only other offered option is 8GB total RAM for $1000.

The net difference in TOTAL RAM = 4GB. The net total difference in price = $1000.

Thus, the price to add 4GB total DDR3 RAM from the base configuration of 4GB DDR3 RAM, to the optional configuration of 8GB DDR3 RAM, is an ADDITIONAL $1000.

That's a 4GB upgrade for a total of $1000.

And it was mentioned LONG AGO that the DDR3 was not configured in a manner to make use of its capacity nor capabilities. Hence why it is a braindead design. You are the only one thinking you have discovered something new! LOL!

And Paul still wants to keep arguing.

Sit down Paul. Or go find a kid to explain it to you.

hey, buddy. simmer... iMac uses Core 2 Duo's and laptop sized memory of which it has only two slots for. Obviously a pair of 2GB laptop sticks are much cheaper at current ram prices than a pair of 4GB chips. Even crucial has the upgrade kit for nearly 800 bucks. Some people want that option. personally, if im going to get a lot of ram in a machine it's going to be a mac pro. It's way cheaper to upgrade full sized ram sticks at these prices:

6GB (6x1GB)
8GB (4x2GB) [Add $100.00]
12GB (6x2GB) [Add $300.00]
16GB (8x2GB) [Add $500.00]
32GB (8x4GB) [Add $6,100.00]

"Paul, I can't believe that you are so stupid as to be debating this."

"And Paul still wants to keep arguing."

And foxfyre seems to have found a loophole in "It takes two to tango".

Oh, dear. Time to stop and actually read what I wrote. "Upgrade of" and "upgrade to" are the only two options to fully clarify the sentence.

Leaving both out means it is open to ambiguity as to whether the meaning is "to a total RAM of 4GB", or to a "difference between the base RAM and the final RAM".

I think perhaps it is you who requires the child. It'd likely be less petulant than you, too.

Of course, if you'd linked to the 24" configuration initially, it would have been apparent. You didn't, and so I presumed you were talking about the 20" model (as this is the cheapest) which has a base RAM of 2GB with a possible upgrade to 4GB, which until you clarified it, was my presumption.

"iMac uses Core 2 Duo's and laptop sized memory of which it has only two slots for."

Yup, that's a braindead design for a premium priced computer.

And its ironic that Apple pushes such an upgrade (the only one offered) while pushing an inadequaely designed MoBo that does not even take advantage of the DDR3 native processing capability of 3 channels.

Overpriced, underperforming end of lifecycle CPUs inappropriately coupled with SLOW overpriced DDR3 RAM utilized in an anything but optimal design configuration.

"your presumption"

As usual. Paul, you are wrong.

You were taking issue with what I asserted. And now you admit that you didn't even have a clue as to what I was re3ferring. Why should I go and try to figure out where in hell you are sourcing your fantasy objection. You want to debate, either ask in order to discover that which you now admit you hadn't a clue, or work a bit harder to figure it out.

So, after ALL of your hystrionics, my initial point was correct. LOL!
At least it gives me something to laugh about if I have to be up communicating (and waiting....) on others half way around the world.

Let me quote you something you didn't read properly the first time:

"Hahaha. Now that you've clarified your ambiguous comment; yes, you're correct."

I clearly said I agreed with your point once you'd clarified it, then you went off on a rant that you had clarified it in your first post, which I then pointed out you hadn't. Then you had a hissy fit.

Please Paul, take more credit!

You have either misunderstood or been out of touch all along.

Of course, if you were more familiar with that which with you are so quick to take issue from the onset, you wouldn't have been arguing.

And we wouldn't have had to go on and on having to deal with your protracted ignorance and confusion.

'Oh...but...'...yup.

issues. you have them

I'll let the scores of your comments speak for themselves (which I have not influenced as that really would be petty).

Mac sucks!!

great. you convinced me. now i'll stop buying them

Windows sucks more.

The new iMac offers more hardware for the money than Dell or HP. Plus you get OSX rather than the bloated, broken, artificially stripped down Vista OS. For those outrageous prices, they could at least off the Vista, super expensive, bring a high powered machine to its knees, Ultimate edition. LOL. Ultimate. ROFL.

http://apple20.blogs.for...etter-deal-than-dell-hp/

yo chicken head: http://www.mac-sucks.com/

dude by the way am using 64-bit OS, what about you? still using disabled 32-bit crap os x?

Yawn.

"dude by the way am using 64-bit OS, what about you?"

The illiterate nitwit who has been out smoking with the Dell 'dude' owns a Dell.... 'nuff said.

And he is still trying to find a printer that works with his wonder environment. Of course with his demonstrated inability to write a coherent sentence, is anyone surprised that so many printer drivers don't work properly????

Funny he has time to post between downloads of critical security fixes...and reloads due to a corrupted registry.

Found your oh so powerful terminal session yet?
Oh, but how dare I mention that...as ping and isconfig works ...which is a good thing as Windows so often 'loses' the definitions!
Haven't you heard. Windows is going to get 'scripting'. LMAO!

Adblock Plus must not be working correctly. This entire article still managed to slip through.

You are obviously running it on a Windows machine.

That's not a bug, thats an undocumented feature.

SELECT * FROM foxfyre
WHERE clue > 0;
0 rows returned

thats so clever i'd think you got it from a tshirt

If you weren't familiar with simple basic SQL queries, I can see how you would then.

...and yes, that's one of the many T-s***s that I have. ;-)

Sorry, Nimrod, but it should be:

SELECT * FROM yountmj
WHERE clue < 0;
0 rows returned

Geesh.
Proofread your tshirts.

"Sorry, Nimrod, but it should be:

SELECT * FROM yountmj
WHERE clue < 0;
0 rows returned

Geesh.
Proofread your tshirts."

Wow... and even after an edit (thus proving my statement)! LOL!

I guess your extensive early-90s AIX background didn't cover such rudimentary tasks as simple database queries.

You just made my week, 'Professor'.

Go back to monitoring your server temps at your help desk job. Don't forget to call your supervisor when the lights turn red (that means something bad happened). I'm sure you have it memorized by now... if not, it's in the SOP.

I edit for spelling Nimrod.

Unfortunately, you claim to code - a commoditized job we farm out to more highly qualified foreign workers - but can't get the logical staement correct.

But hey, no surprises there, right?

Of course not. That is what keeps us in business establishing policies and procedures for the likes of dimwits like you and watching as you fail security and compliance audits.

Well, you should edit for more than just spelling, genius.

I did not claim to "code"... you assumed something about someone else, as usual. I simply know how to apply common sense with such a simple search query.

In your attempt to be right, it would probably behoove you in the future to actually BE right.

Let's compare, shall we?

Find all instances where foxfyre has at least one clue: none found.

Find all instances where yountmj has less than a clue: none found.

No surprise indeed. It's no wonder YOU outsource those jobs. Your statement makes no sense, yet you defend it once again because somehow it only makes sense to you (which is usually your problem). LOL!

What began as a simple jab at you turned into so much more. Your ego helped carry that hilarity into the next week. You're an easy target. Priceless! ;-)

It's not just the MacPros that stomp a mud hole in PC desktops, according to Oppenheimer, the new iMacs are a better deal than Dell and HP offerings. http://apple20.blogs.for...etter-deal-than-dell-hp/

"the new iMacs are a better deal than Dell and HP offerings"

LOL!

My Yugo is better than your Pinto and Vega.

Besides, it uses gold plated DDR3 RAM that is inappropriate for a Core2DUO(!!!) CPU - and Apple literally offers a 4GB RAM upgrade for the OBSCENE price of $1000!!!!!

Obviously their website is aimed at idiots who know little about computers - meaning most of those who frequent this site should be there!

And if you want to have fun, call up a local Apple Store OR the corporate line and see if you can find anyone who knows the difference between any of the CPUs - or for more fun, see if you can literally find anyone who even recognizes what a Core2(anything) or the i7/Nehalem is!

Its a hoot!

And just what is the Mac experience? The feeling of superiority when someone who knows nothing about IT pays for overpriced underpowered end of lifecycle hardware?

Apple hardware does not compete.

And anyone with a PC who is not building it, and especially anyone claiming to know IT and yet buys a DELL or HP desktop, is equally a fool.

Bottomline, Apple needs to compete. Few care about having the Beogram of computers.

"and Apple literally offers a 4GB RAM upgrade for the OBSCENE price of $1000!!!!!"

I think you mean 8GB. 4GB is pretty competitively priced (£80) for an upgrade directly from the company (I imagine Dell would charge around the same for 4GB).

Interestingly, as DDR3 likes to be installed in 3s, 8GB is an odd number for them to offer an upgrade to.

Nope Paul, I meant exactly what I said.

In order to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB, the 4GB upgrade costs $1000.

Amazing that such a erudite company so worried about GREEN technology does not begin with a 3 channel DDR3 config with higher density RAM thus allowing one to simply add the additional RAM that even they are suggesting would be beneficial (as after all, why else would they be offering it???).

Instead the ‘oh so green’ ‘waste not want not’ company requires that you toss your 4GB of RAM and replace ALL of it – duplicating 4GB of it!

And not designing the MoBo to accommodate the DDR3 RAM in a native optimal config simply, thus allowing for a simple addition of RAM renders the entire board not very future oriented as well – ultimately creating more waste and associated cost.

But its nice how you follow me around and try to nit pick points that ultimately were already thought out and for which your point is moot.

So what do we have? A poorly designed unit where the technology utilized is NOT utilized to its optimum, nor are the various assortments of components used as efficiently or as cost effectively as they could have been.

The result: an overpriced, underpowered end of lifecycle technology machine that is not upgradeable. Green my @ss.

"In order to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB, the 4GB upgrade costs $1000"

Hahaha. Now that you've clarified your ambiguous comment; yes, you're correct.

"Instead the ‘oh so green’ ‘waste not want not’ company requires that you toss your 4GB of RAM and replace ALL of it – duplicating 4GB of it!"

If your need for RAM is so great (which is understandable, I should probably point out) why don't you wait a while until it's not quite such a new product and the prices drop? Or perhaps sell the old sticks on eBay? It's not exactly Apple's fault for your inability not to throw part of their product away.

"But its nice how you follow me around and try to nit pick points that ultimately were already thought out and for which your point is moot."

Hahaha. Me thinks you doth think too highly of yourself.

The rest of your comment is perfectly valid.

Not ambiguous at all. The only confusion exists in your small mind.

THE ONLY OPTION APPLE OFFERS TO GO FROM 4GB TO 8GB OF RAM - WHICH IS A 4GB UPGRADE - COSTS $1000. Literally! Even on a new machine where they KEEP the base 4GB of Ram and use it for another machine! And the density of the RAM offered does not allow you to use the replaced RAM. So it remains wasted.

Sorry such a complex concept is SO complicated for you.
The sad fact is that you haven't begun thinking yet.

And if you have read ANY of the other posts, OF COURSE people should not by upgraded resources from Apple! Try reading again - this time for meaning. It has been stated at least 2 or 3 times elsewhere already. Duh!

And it IS Apple's choice to offer the base RAM configuration in the form it does, as opposed to offering higher density units allowing for the population of additional sockets - had they thought ahead. Its called "design". And you can either be forward looking (and thus anticipate the upgrade it so 'generously'(sic) offers on its website, or they don't, and you are stuck with what they provide as it exists.

The irony, is that if you order the 'upgrade' from them from inception, they simply keep the base 4GB and resell it to someone else in a new machine and do not even allow you to just pay the price differential minus the value of the recovered RAM! LOL!

Just follow your posts...you haven't offered an original thought yet.

oops

Nice to see Foxfyre's managed to miss the point that the desktop machines all use Mobile processors, which there isn't a version of the i7 for yet.

That's why they haven't upgraded to them yet.

Sorry dillweed.
YOU miss the point!
There is no need for them to use the mobile anything for the DESKTOP.

Why would anyone find it advantageous to use a more limited architecture imposing greater constraints that only serve to raise prices and render their models already dated at launch?

Sorry you can't fathom the point!

Also, explain why they have been using DDR3 memory to support Core2Duo processors for some time now, to no advantage - and only higher cost?

And even the mobile Core2 QUADS have been available!

So even the mobile CPUs they are using are dated and not as powerful as are readily available for a LINE POWERED DESKTOP computer.

Gee, it is so kompleeekated for you.

LOL!

I presume you haven't bothered to pay attention during any of the Apple environmental adverts of late then.

The mobile chips use less power and create less heat.
DDR3 RAM uses less power than DDR2 (nice to see you researched that one fully :P) and generates less heat.

Their fully enclosed iMacs presumably run quite hot already, let alone putting a full-on desktop CPU in them. You know Apple are a company for style over substance (especially so with their consumer desktop line *cough* Mac Mini *cough*).

As for the Core 2 Quads, I have no idea why they're not using them, and that is a good question.

So Paul, at a voltage differential of .3 volts (1.8V vs 1.5V), please calculate the difference in heat output (wattage).

The packaging and supply chain management overhead required to stock the two formats results in a greater energy use than is saved by all of the actual differences resulting from use!

Not to mention that the rest of the design is anything but optimized. All they have done of consequence is to SLOWLY begin to adhere to ROHS guidelines!

But like all good liberals, you (and Apple) obviously value symbolism over substance.

Your examples are so absurd and insignificant that your posts simply become more inconsequential.

But there's no news there. ;-)

Nice to see you ignored the mobile processor point.

Perhaps I should have clarified that the fact it's an "environmentally friendly" advert wasn't really the key part of that; just that the information was supplied within it.
In the small print it's probably about the users' carbon footprint, no doubt (we all know Apple are notorious for spouting ambiguous - if not spurious - s***e in their adverts).
DDR3 uses less energy and generates less heat (regardless of how little) which in turn allows for longer battery life thus lowering users' carbon footprint (though probably raising the carbon emissions overall).

And no, I don't care for symbolism. Much like I don't care for the US's inability to ratify the Kyoto Protocol.

And for you to have mistaken me for a liberal is amusing.

Of course I ignored the nonsense about the use of a mobile processor used in a desktop.

You are neither resource contrained in terms of power, nor should you be constrained in terms of capability which over time would reduce the total time needed to complete a project and thus allow you to turn the unit off and thus save even more energy. Pretty complicated, aye Paul?

But please tell us, as the heat generated by the RAM, as opposed to all of the additional components is SO substantial, and you erroneously think the different in heat output between 1.5V and 1.8V is sooooo substantial, its pretty obvious that you have no idea of the relative heat outputs of the various components relative to each other nor to their total relative energy usage.

But your emotional sense of responsibility is oh so compelling. All you need is a commercial where you shed a few tears. Nothing like a symbolic gesture that precludes the use of logic and making a real difference.

But then, not even laptops are employing the strategy of using DDR3 RAM in lieu of DDR2 RAM for energy and heat efficiency! And they ARE resource constrained! Duh!

The ROI on the use of DDR3 Ram for energy use is almost negligable, while the cost and wasted capacity makes the use of it for a Core2Duo CPU laughable!

But sure Paul, only you (and Apple) rationalize such an increase in cost for such a miniscule savings in energy when a greater net savings would be afforded by using a FASTER more capable processor and simply getting the job done faster and turning the unit OFF! And putting the money into a processor, and less into the Ram just might result in a few more being sold instead of folks denigrating the short sighted design and waiting for the next iteration to see if they get it right!

I for one had hoped for a more substantial redesign focuing on real substance rather than the fluff offered.

Instead, all we get is patheitic Symbolism over substance.

Ans to the degree that you advance the same asinine reasoning of Apple, you are wasting your energy as you decline to adopt an openly liberal position. After all, such inability to consistently apply logic across all aspects of the unit as you selectively employ penny wise pound foolish illogic is worthy of a liberal. ;-))

Well if you want your iMac to melt, fine, stick a desktop processor in.

That ranks right up there with your dumbest comments. But considering the library that you have accumulated, its rather hard to say if its the dumbest - as there are soooo many.

Yup, as aluminum and glass melts so easily. Not to mention that they both conduct heat rather well. And besides, I guess that means all of the Pentium class laptops all caught fire that had a greater heat output...

And with the exceptionally large aluminum surface area to act as a heat sink, colling shouldn't be a problem - especially if they chose to incorporate 3/32" thick liquid thermal conducting surface into the aluminum casing.

The more you talk, the sillier you sound. Congrats. I would have thought you would have reached an asymptotic limit much earlier.

"Yup, as aluminum and glass melts so easily. Not to mention that they both conduct heat rather well. And besides, I guess that means all of the Pentium class laptops all caught fire that had a greater heat output..."

Look genius, what do you think the motherboard is made of? Though of course you took 'melt' to be literal instead of the rather obvious figurative. You really think within that case it'd be happy with limited cooling and *not* cause the case to be ridiculously hot to the touch at the very least? Almost certainly something would die under heavy load.

Pentium 4 laptops didn't catch fire because they had the cooling in place via fans and heatsinks so that the cases didn't get outrageously hot (except with a couple of models of Dells [namely the 5150 and early 5160s], which did indeed catch fire to piss-poor heat dissipation). The required level of fans and heatsinks for P4s could be fitted due to the thicker cases which weren't designed so that every last inch was "saved".

"Look genius, what do you think the motherboard is made of?"

Duh! That is why precisely I mentioned glass, dimwit!

A 20"-24" monitor's surface area is plenty large enough to passively dissipate all the heat the unit would generate! Especially if it were augmented with liquid heat pipes under the surface to speed the rate of dissipation.

And indeed, the componentry will not melt nor catch fire.
In fact, by providing convective 'tunnel' pathways from the bottom of the monitor body and exiting the top, passive convective cooling could also be easily used to augment the passive radiant sinks. And that costs nothing.

But its fun to watch as you remain about three steps behind the points made as you simply repeat what was said while demonstrating that you don't understand what was said.

WOW>. a 3Gbps SATA drive also.. I will go outs and gets me one with my stimulas check..

Yawn... iMacs are just glorified laptops. That's why there are no Nehalem chips for them. Intel has not yet released a mobile Core i7.

OMG! OMG! OMG! What an incredible beast of a machine!

Godzilla vs. MacPro

Holy smokes, that new MacPro is scary fast and powerful. There is NOTHING in the PC world that compares. Once again, Apple dominates.

The MacPro -SANS the obscenely priced Apple upgrades - is a nice machine. Provided one buys ALL of their upgraded resources 3rd party.

As far as the rest of the overpriced , underperforming, end of lifecycle crap that should have been upgraded to incorporate forward oriented i7 technology - well, it just doesn't cut it.

But I am sure iTurd has the latest trendy color in the oh so current overpriced low-fi music player.

Sorry iTurd, except for the base MacPro, Apple swings and misses yet again.

iTard7 full of crap once again. Nicely said foxfyre!

my custom machine will smoke that mac pro... specs
Foxconn Renaissance LGA 1366 Intel X58
Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 Nehalem 3.2GHz overclocked to 4.8GHz with water cooling
Antec 1200 case
2x EVGA GeForce GTX 285 FTW Edition 1GB
with 6GB of ram plus the PSU and many other extras and running hackingtosh and Vista and Ubuntu on it

Who gives a F#$k.

Name a STOCK prebuilt machine from a mainstream Computer reseller who competes with it.

Ubuntu....LOL! Got apps?

well it seems that your mom cares and yes i do have applications

Yup, she does. As had I been born as dumb as you I would have been left somewhere to die as suggested in many cultures.

Yup, folks, he has Gimp and Open Office. LOL!

being curious i wanted to see what the top of the line Mac Pro with everything costs... $20,429.95, i think i'll buy a new ski-doo and work on my igloo up here in canada instead, i just can't believe there is actually a $22,000.00 option, lets hope that qualifies for free shipping :)

Again, someone too stupid to source exorbitantly priced options independently as he more than adequately displays his inability to think.

But this is evidently a bumper year for slow lemmings where they are not swooft enough to come in from the permafrost.

But this is the guy who would buy a 28foot travel trailer to compliment his new Yugo...not to mention a $120K extended warranty package to cover his $27 Yugo.

Just goes to show you how far a stupid PC user would go as they try to dmonstrate that its the Mac users who are stupid.

Applecare on a Mac Mini... LOL! But you see, because of this, its too kompleekated for him to consider ordering the $599 Mini from a US mailorder firm and not ordering Applecare as he keeps running around quoting $1100 Canadian.

Its not only readily evident, but a shame your parents didn't spring for the optional 'intelligence' package when they mailordered you.

"Apple refreshes its Mac desktops with Intel Nehalem CPUs"

huh? I have been using my DELL XPS H2C with Intel Core i7, NVIDIA GeForce GTX280s SLIed for a couple of months and finally CrApple users will get to enjoy Intel Nehalem CPUs. Too late!!

Except your D(h)ELL machine runs garbage Windoze and was slapped together with cheap parts in addition to the hardware you claim you own.

Man,

I've been gone from this site for a couple a months, and your still around. How sad. Have you not given this game up yet? Really? Honestly?

and of course, I haven't forgotten.. You never answered my question. I'd be surprised if your mind was even capable of remembering what the question was. And until you can answer, anything you say is going straight to /dev/null

Scam? The idiots below are just that.

The problem with the "new" Macs are that the iMac and Mini do not include an i7 processor! Hell, they don't even offer a Core2Quad processor option! So, why do they need DDR3 support tht is literally wasted overkill for a processor that can't exploit its capabilities.

This is just plain bad design. And the irony is that they don't even have to design anything NEW! They could use off the shelf componentry!

The article would have been more appropriately entitled:

Apple ONLY upgrades MacPro to Nehalem as the rest of the desktops get stuck with end of lifecycle Core2"

A premium computer with the decidely old line Core2 stuff is simply a waste of money. More end of lifecycle Core2 nonsense. Yawn.

It looks like Apple is too lazy to take the trouble to do the design work necessary to accomodate the new chipsets and to use the newer DDR3 RAM. And to the degree that DDR3 RAM is already supported, there is NO excuse for using the end of lifecycle Core2 nonsense when i7 is readily available!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And $1000 for a 4GB DDR3 RAM upgrade?!? LOL!

Apple - how about getting off your @sses and offer the computers you are easily capable of doing? And give us a compelling reasoon to buy your hardware????

Perhaps offer ONE Core2 QUAD BUDGET model for each, but ALSO load the mid and high models of each with the i7!

The problem with Apple is that they have ignored the computer line while they have been chasing the iPhone and iPod markets.

Someone needs to get off their butts and get motivated - or just open up OSX and get out of the computer hardware market - make up your mind!

And actively have a MacBook and MacBook Pro ready for the new low power i7s as they ship.

Surprise us by doing the right thing, just once.

CrApple--vendor locker
Yo man why are you worried about hardware? It's all about premium user experience and like other Mac users you should be proud to have a slick and shiny Mac and worry less about hardware, you know...

Oh yeah, you dreams will be fulfilled once DDR3 will be outdated LOL
So no worries dude

Such typical drivel from someone who thinks Windows defines the user experience...

Well, unless you define that in terms of OS corruptiion, software and driver/device incompatibilities, compromised machines, reinstalls and necessary fixes for poorly written code, and incessant queries of 'are you sure you're sure that you're sure you're sure that you are sure that you're sure that you want to do that?'... LOL!

But gee, it plays games...

Yup, and 14 year olds rule...

bottom line $1100 CDN mini minus applecare, 1300+w/ac, what the f*ck... and no monitor, you know, i'd like to just have a mac laying around to tinker with but no way, i think a msi wind and copy of OS X are in order

Why in the world would one buy Applecare for a @%#$ Mac Mini???
LMAO!

Your problem isn't Apple.
So a basic cpu, a few pieces of RAM, a hard drive and no graphics card is a bit over your head to maintain?

Yup, we got us a PC wizard here folks! Actually, the problem is he still thinks Macs are somehow different then a PC! And he would buy a $300 maintenance contract for his Asus EE too! LOL!

Bottomline, you pay that much for a Mac Mini, and the only one you have to blame is the idiot who paid it!

what are you even talking about? the price is still, $1100 CDN and upwards, which is boarderline retarded, and apple folks 'offer' you applecare as protection, which it isn't (i called awhile back and was offered protection on the mini), i wouldn't buy applecare because its worthless and does not even cover accidental damage or even their own defective products 'macbook air hinge' anyone?

its nothing for me to maintain a mini, but apples products are offered to folks who have no idea how to fix or troubleshoot a problem with their system (my ISP offers mac's+applecare if people sign up for high-speed as part of their package/contract) so yeah, i'm not talking about me here

Anyone who buys Applecare for a Mac Mini is a fool.

And the fact that its 1000 fish in Canada is YOUR problem.
Its $599 here for the base model.

So rationalize your 'Asus EE' with some absurd $300 service contract in the name of "all Apple users being idiots" - when the reality is that its idiots like yourself proposing that they would buy Applecare for a Mini.

Why not really strengthen your asinine case by suggesting that the "idiots who buy Apple" would also go out and buy 24GB of DDR3 RAM and several videocards and a few additional SATA drives to install in their Mac Mini too.

The irony is that you said YOU wouldn't mind having one if it didn't cost so much! So the real problem is that this 'oh so prohibitive' price is actually referring to YOU! LOL! Enjoy your Apple care contract, Nimrod.

After all, while I still think Apple should enlarge the case by a few inches and include an empty PCIe x16 slot (along with an i7 CPU), you could get a Mac Mini for just $599 USD if you weren't so mentally challenged. And even less if you simply signed up for a $50 one hour community college course to qualitfy for the education discount! Oh...

But we can readily see how that would be an utter waste of time....

Your strawman argument is absurd.

yes, apple has nothing to do with its own pricing, various contracts with other companies in different countries... i want what this guy is smoking

edit: i would want one, but not at $1100, i believe i said instead i'll probably get an msi wind, and throw OS X on using various methods that exist, i'm not sure how i would get applecare with that.

why do people who are in love with apple, always, always ... insult folks? i think you should get a life my friend, but i really do want what you're smoking :D

listen, the prices are way too much in Canada, and even folks in the US are saying the prices are too high

Your exchange rate has nothing to do with Apple. And online, you could easily buy if from an American firm.

But this genius would buy an MSI Wind and try to install OSX rather than just buy a Mac mini for $599. But then you still keep insisting that the price include OPTIONAL $169 Applecare in your asinine price comparison.

"...i'm not sure how i would get applecare with that"

Why do I trust you will find a way?

You have an idiot for a buyer.

LOL!

It just goes to prove that not all of the problems are attributable to Apple! And you do indeed have idiots who would consider buying one.

Case in point...in the Twilight Zone.

Horribly overpriced and having mobile parts instead of desktop parts. The iMac has *some* mobile parts and the Mac Pro directly jumps to extreme high-end desktop/server parts. Nothing in between. But then that's the whole scam.

They did a small secret push to the MacBook Pro line too. Base model dropped by ~£15 here.

Once again...Yawn. Apple introduces a boring update of the same overpriced computers they have always offered.

Boring - really? I'm no Mac fanboy, but if these things are shipping now I'd say it's hardly boring, considering they're the first to market with a Nehalem-based Xeon dual CPU system with about a month lead on others.

This is no different than their big announcement for the move to Intel or their big announcement of the new iMac format or the big announcement for the Mini....yada, yada, yada. My point is this...Apple has not been innovating on computer side for a while. They just keep producing new revisions of the same silver obsessed machines with new parts. Its getting all a bit too predictable.

They make a nice machine but charge way too much.

I don't think its quite so simple.

The MacPro is a damned fine machine.

But Apple's accessories/upgrades are OBSCENELY priced.

And all of the other models aside from the MacPro are generations behind.

Core2 Duo instead of Core2Quad, for a BUDGET priced machine, or better, an Intel i7 for a current generation machine would be the least one should expect.

Especially as they are stupidly using DDR3 RAM for a Core2Duo!?!?!?!?!

Apple needs to allocate minimum resources to simply keep the machines up to current generation hardware. Obviously their computers are an afterthought.

And this should be very easy in any competent company where the staff need only stay current and familiar with existing technology.

Its a shame, as if they simply kept up with current technology, for which they need not design anything new, they would offer a compelling platform for the use of OSX and Windows/Linux.

But if they can't even keep up with a $1000 EMachines or Gateway that already offer the i7, what is the point.

And they should be the FIRST to offer a low power mobile i7 MacBook and MacBook Pro...but, at this rate, we will be lucky if they offer one by 2013.

Apple continues to screw themselves - and the people who want a competitive machine and the ability to run OSX.

But its Apple....At least they are consistent - for every case of an opportunity presented, they manage to find yet another way to squander it.

We'll wait till the end of the year, but if there aren't MAJOR changes with the MacBook Pro, we're buying a Lenovo W700 as they move to the low power mobile i7 upon release.

As an outsider looking in, foxfyre has some very good points in this post. My personal preference is Vista 64 on a home-built Core i7, but where I work we use PCs for office work and Macs (G5's) in graphic design and print production, a job which they seriously excel at. Sure we could probably do it all in Windows but Macs (imo) are better at it.

I personally use Windows for two reasons - a majority of what I do is not available on the Mac (if it were I'd look a lot more seriously at it) and the relative cost for the hardware. I have to admit that I do enjoy the freedom of upgrade path that I have on the PC too. The issue of security between PCs and Macs is a non-issue for me too - I like to think I have the brains to keep my system clean (no infections in 12+ years of Windows)

It really comes down to a case of the right tools for the job - just pick what does what you need it to do. Hell, pick both if your budget supports it.

one man's obscenely priced is another man's profit

ever heard of crucial.com?