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Apple Can't Face The Truth

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

April 12, 2007, 6:14 PM

Instead of admitting that Leopard is taking far longer to finish than it anticipated, Apple has chosen an attempt to hide behind the iPhone to mask the hypocrisy of delaying the next version of Mac OS X.

PERSPECTIVE I can no doubt hear the snickers from Redmond this very minute after reading Apple's statement regarding its delay of Mac OS X "Leopard." This comes from a company that never passed up an attempt to bash Microsoft's incessant delays of Vista at every turn.

Now, Apple's a great company, don't get me wrong, but this attempt at getting around the truth smells of hypocrisy all around. As somebody in the office said today, "You can't bash Microsoft for being late to the party and then be tardy yourself." How true.

Apple claims that in order to finish the iPhone on time, it had to pull developers from the Mac OS X team. It goes on to say that the OS would be feature complete, but it would not be able to "deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us."

Okay, so we basically take a risk by delaying an already established product in favor of finishing a product on time that hasn't even been proven yet? Let us all remember that music phones in general have so far been flops.

We don't know for sure that Apple will succeed either -- even the world's biggest purveyor of music devices may not be immune to that as-of-yet insurmountable problem.

We do know from Microsoft OS launches that they also in turn boost PC sales. The profit margins on PCs are far higher than phones, so why would Apple take such a risk? It's beyond me, and probably a lot of other folks too.

Already, financial analysts are questioning the move. Barron's Eric Savitz said Thursday that he expected analysts to begin downgrading their estimates for the third quarter.

"There has been speculation that Leopard's release would generate both software upgrade revenue and an immediate charge to Mac sales," he wrote.

Apple's hypocrisy has been further exposed by sites like AppleInsider as well, which noted that many of the critical issues with Leopard still remain two months before the "end of the quarter," which was the Cupertino company's previous release target.

The company should have taken the chance to confirm the reports at that time, rather than lie about it and look like a hypocrite now.

What's wrong with admitting the truth, Steve? That's what I don't understand. If you think you were going to be able to sneak under the radar, I'd hate to tell you that the Microsoft fans would revel in your woes. They've been waiting for you to slip up for years.

The real gem from the statement came at the end: "Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're sure we've made the right ones."

Well, it should be you hope this was the right one, because I'm not so sure it was.

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By foxfyre

edited Apr 16, 2007 - 5:43 AM

I wonder...

So many here seem to think that Apple is the one who cannot face reality.

But here is another view...

Almost in the same breath, many are want to tell us that Apple is no longer a "computer" company; they tell us that Apple has morphed into an electronic accessory company - as evidenced by the self-proclaimed announcement of this change by Apple of both their name and their focus.

So, if what Apple has told us, and what others keep repeating, is true, then who are the ones who can't face the truth?

If Apple's focus has indeed shifted away from the computer as a core technology and moved toward accessories such as the iPhone or the iPod, then a delay is not a big deal. After all, the OSX upgrade is simply that - it is not a major new release on the scale of Vista. Apple already has their 'equivalent' of Vista. Leopard will simply complete the transition of the OS to a FULL 64 bit environment, something already implemented in large form in OSX, and something Vista hasn't even begun.

So what it sounds like is that many want to tell us that Apple is now first and foremost an electronics accessory company. And Apple is telling us that.

And if that is true, and if we listen to what Apple and we keep telling ourselves, the fundamental problem of expectations is not with Apple.

{BTW, I love the comment that "Let us all remember that music phones in general have so far been flops." Heck, I don't have one! But let us remember that since 2001 in a saturated cell phone market, convergence has driven almost ALL cell phone sales based upon their converged features! Such is the nature of a saturated market. They are not adding to the net customer base, they are selling NEW PHONES and seeing customer churn. So the comment ignores market reality.}

Unfortunately, both Apple and the media have developed a 'cult of personality' around Jobs. And that simply gets in the way. Screw Jobs.

The fundamental problem is with the many folks here who schizophrenically who want it "both" ways.

On the one hand they want to tell us that Apple is now an accessory company - all while they are still try to hold onto an outdated conceptual identity and to try to continue to hold them accountable to the old model of being a computer company.

You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Instead, I might posit that it is the schizoid market public who can't face the truth. And that makes the real problem OUR hypocrisy!

Score: 0

By CarLox

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 2:28 PM

but who cares about the phone anyways??? I DONT NEED A PHONE THAT HAS MANY FUNCTIONALITIES, I JUST NEED TO TALK FOR GOD SAKE AND IF YOU WANT MUSIC AND VIDEOS THEN BUY AN iPod man, now at least all the cellphones comes with rebate and on the other hand the iPhone wont have a rebate and i dont wanna throw $500 for a phone that sucks, i would rather buy a new gaming pc and install Windows XP or VISTA to play MANY GAMES THAT MAC DOESNT HAVE!! for me that's the whole point of having windows on my computer because MAC SUCKS AT GAMES

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 4:14 PM

YEAH!Why on EARTH WOULD anyone WANT to be able TO TALK and WATCH VIDEOS on the saME DEViCE??? They should be happy SPENDING MORE ON TWO devices than spending MUCH LESS ON a device that does the JOB OF BOTH of them???!?!!!1oneoneone

There, thought he might be able to understand that better.

Gotta speak their language to get through to them, right?

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 4:09 PM

...and you suck at constructing a coherent response.

Judging from your rant, I would think a Gameboy would be more suitable for you.

Score: 0

By templar™

edited Apr 16, 2007 - 11:03 AM

"FULL 64 bit environment, something already implemented in large form in OSX, and something Vista hasn't even begun"

WinXP 64-bit edition has been around for 2 years or so.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 12:07 PM

You miss the point.

OSX will be unified 32/64-bit environment such as what AIX has been for 10 years now, without having separate 'incompatible' versions like MS.

And just like AIX and other systems, the 32bit and 64-bit distinctions will cease to have meaning. It will run 64-bit appls and 32-bit appls without your having to make a distinction.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 2:22 PM

I could have *sworn* Vista and XPO 64-bit could run 32-bit apps.

Huh...

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Apr 16, 2007 - 5:47 PM

According to Microsoft you would be correct,

Windows XP Pro x64 is a natural progression from existing 32-bit Windows XP Pro, and the vast majority of programs written for Windows XP Pro will run in Windows XP Pro x64 without any change or modification. The mechanism that Windows XP Pro x64 uses to run 32-bit applications is called Windows on Windows 64-bit, better known as WOW64.
WOW64 provides each 32-bit application with its own protected environment that fully supports 32-bit applications. The application runs at full speed because of the underlying hardware compatibility.

I can only assume vista is the same way

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 9:47 AM

nah, easier than that, lol
Apple does not want to outright admit to what it is doing and from a business end it is smart, shareholders, values and contracts...etc.
So it sounds odd when attend the various symposiums. You are left sort of wondering what they are doing...a part of you knows what they are doing...but you scratch your head wondering why they don't actually say it.

Score: 0

By ConceptJunkie

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 5:01 PM

So Redmond is snickering because Apple is a few months late with their highly anticipated new version when Microsoft themselves were years late with huge bloated mess that no one wants.

I wish I had some of what they're smoking in the Rainy State.

Score: 0

By MArmstrong

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 5:26 PM

Hmmm.. Lets check the stats shall we? Marketshare-wise im still Microsoft is still light-years ahead of where Apples market share is. I think Microsoft is laughing all the way to the bank on that comment. Put down your durry, de-stone, and take a look at that very pretty, but delapidated machine you're using and come over to the light side my friend. PC is the way forward. Always has been, always will be.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 1:39 PM

"Put down your durry, de-stone, and take a look at that very pretty, but delapidated machine you're using and come over to the light side my friend. PC is the way forward."

Cute comment fanboy.

But NO ONE with more than 10 functioning brain cells and familiar with both platforms would make such an asinine comment BUT a fanboy. But I am being redundant.

What, did Windows finally get interface transparency eye candy? Whoopee! You must be in heaven.

Ignorance is bliss.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 3:20 PM

from a business standpoint, the amount of software available for osx vs xp/vista leaves much to be desired. it is hard to run macs when your financial software runs on dos and only dos, along with a million other programs that dont function well on other platforms.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 4:07 PM

LOL!

Yes, the fundamental advantage of the Apple machine is the ability to run ALL of the major OSes (Windows, OSX, Linux, BSD, etc.) concurrently. OLD news. But still valid. Unfortunately our DOS friend hasn't gotten the news...but then he Is running DOS!!!

And if you are STILL dependent upon DOS software, I would question just what you are doing!? Must be cutting edge!

Even Windows no longer includes DOS!

But I guess that I could claim that my library of CPM software renders anything other than, well, CPM, inadequate!

Score: 0

By CarLox

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 2:24 PM

hey hommie!!!, i use Mac OS X on my PC and itz sweet you know, i also have vista and xp running on it and i think that they all have their pros and conts and you should know that better than these "fan" boys

Score: 0

By dhjdhj

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 7:32 PM

Market share indicates where you are NOW. But instead, try look at the rate of change of Apple's market share, and indeed rate of the rate of change of market share (2nd derivative).

My sense is that Microsoft will be losing marketshare both to Apple and to Linux.

Score: 0

By Daddy_Spank

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 12:51 PM

I think its becoming quite clear in the recent years that Apple is a much more of a monopoly company than Microsoft is. But its gonna take some time before the general public sees this.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 4:26 PM

I think it's quite clear that your post was the weakest and most obvious troll attempt ever, unless you are actually dumb enough to think Apple has a monopoly in anything. You fail.

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 9:50 AM

no, come on, DS is right....Apple is a monopoly, it just has no solid power or lead as MS. Who is more a monopoly I ask you...a company that makes an OS or a company that makes an OS for their OWN hardware? Come on, I hope even an apple supporter could admit to us what is what. Sure no power...but still a monopoly.

Score: 0

By dougau

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 5:32 PM

The real questions here is who cares and why does Beta News even bother to report this? How many programs listed on here even run on a Apple OS anyway? Just get Bootcamp and XP or Vista, it’s the only OS a Mac will ever NEED.

Score: 0

By HyTeK

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 10:21 AM

So I want to install XP on a Mac so I can claim that my Mac is now on the BotNet?

SWEET! Where do I sign up?

I don't even own or use a Mac on a daily basis, yet I have spent more time (on the order of 80% more) repairing/maintaining the Windows machines at work then I have the Macs (or Linux) boxes, and we are split 50/50 on Windows and *nix.

Score: 0

By Morsel

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 2:20 PM

And let the 'ego wars' roll on, shall we?!

Score: 0

By templar™

edited Apr 14, 2007 - 10:17 AM

A few people here seem to have missed the point of this article. The article does not say it is NOT okay for Apple to delay Leopard.

The main contention is Apple's seeming hypocrisy in this matter. They think they are too cool to admit that they can screw up.

Let's not forget the iPod virus incident. Instead of admitting fair and square about the mishap, they chose to take a dig at MS.

Now if you think about last month's rumor about the delay, they probably considered using Vista compatibility as a possible reason although in the end they chose the iPhone reason instead.

Score: 0

By billt37

edited Apr 15, 2007 - 7:06 PM

Where is the hypocrisy exactly?

I don't remember where Microsoft were saying "Sorry, Vista won't ship on time because we've had all our engineers off on this other amazing product"

It was "Vista won't ship until we carve out more of its brain"

This whole discussion is chalk and cheese.

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 3:28 PM

isn't hypocrisy and denial a part of the Apple/Mac and mac user charm? :)

Of course it's not charming, just assinine...but that's what they want to call it.

For example, MS/Windows...just a company that makes software and an OS. People buy and put on their computers or their computers to sell.

Apple/Mac communistic true monopoly that makes and sells their own hardware...and noone else (sure they allowed some to make "clones") They may be changing now of course, afterall, using PC hardware now. :)

But I wonder if it's an oxymoron? Apple/Mac/MacUser (most) are hyporcrites and living in denial. hehe

Score: 0

By dhjdhj

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 6:55 AM

There have been so many lies to the media (and therefore to the people) on issues so much more important than a delayed OS that this article is just meaningless.

---->Apple DID lie to the media about....

Score: 0

By Secret Agent Man

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 10:56 AM

...9/11

Score: 0

By Eartude

edited Apr 14, 2007 - 3:31 AM

The reason for delaying Desktop OS X in order to get the iPhone out is simple.

Contracts.

When you deal with a provider like Cingular, you sign on to ship by a certain date. Miss the date, pay stiff penalties for every week you miss by.

Delaying desktop Leopard is a lot cheaper. It might lose a few sales, it will probably delay a whole bunch of sales -- so the quarter numbers take a hit, but it should still boost FY07.

For those suggesting the iPhone's OS will be incomplete because it's Leopard-based -- chances are the stuff that won't be polished by June is the desktop components -- the stuff that Leopard won't need.

Remember, the iPhone is a closed system, so QA is a LOT easier than on the many and varied Mac systems -- and no, it's not "just 6 models" -- there's far more Intel systems been launched than that and a hell of a lot of PPC-based G4 systems that it will also support).

Beyond that, the iPhone might be unproven, but look at the hype it's generated. It's been front-paged on every mainstream news site you can think of. Delaying it would hurt far more than that of the relatively small Mac userbase.

Of course, that's assuming that Apple told the truth about the delay... but that's a whole other can of worms.

Score: 0

By Morsel

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 2:10 PM

Good point, I agree.

Score: 0

By megadupek

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 11:14 AM

I don't agree with that view. I work in a large internet company and I know how difficult it is to focus on a launch and priorities. I think it was a good move by Apple to focus on the iPhone.

Score: 0

By Heart_Man_2000

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 11:48 PM

IF and WHEN Leopard gets delayed approaching 5 years then you can start talking hypocrisies. Also Apple is going to deliver Leopard with more than it has already promised, not strip out the majority of enhancements that happened to Vista.

Score: 0

By templar™

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 9:37 AM

You can't really say that. Apple has been very secretive about Leopard's features, which is probably a smart move although not developer friendly.

Score: 0

By GS5

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:06 PM

Apple did bash M$ when Vista was delayed. But when you think about it, the Vista delays were understandable, since Vista had to be compatible with thousands of different hardware and hundreds of thousands of different software. OSX doesn't really have that problem. OSX only needs to be compatible with the 5 or 6 Mac models and a hand full of software.

At least M$ had the balls to say they couldn't finish by the target date. If M$ said they had to pull people from Vista to finish the Zune on time Apple would have had one hell of a bashfest.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:38 PM

Good points. And don't forget, Microsoft forced Vista to miss the holiday season sales, which rippled and cost the hardware industry, too, not that anyone had written any drivers by then, the jerks.

Score: 0

By Das mod

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:47 PM

plus remember all the setbacks caused to vista by third party companies ??
Symantec with the security issues, the EU with their fines .....
Who's attacking Leopard ??
nobody, yet they still delay it ...

Score: 0

By HyTeK

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 10:09 AM

Setbacks to Vista was in Microsoft's hands to begin with. Microsoft is a monopoly through and through. Their legal department knows darn well that when they seal up a proprietary protocol to stop interoperability and integration from third party products, they are asking to get fined from Governments. On the other hand, being fined from the EU didn't stop Microsoft at all from developing Vista at the source code level. What the EU wanted was documentation and pricing for the protocols. Nothing to do with development.

Symantec also did not delay Vista. It is Microsoft's own fault for trying to monopolize the software market even more by locking out third party vendors, and in this case with anti-virus software. Ever wonder why Microsoft's OneCare worked (before the api change) and Symantec did not?

Now, what would you say if Microsoft said Vista was delayed because of the Xbox360? Nothing, because Microsoft (for example) had 20 people working for nine months just to develop the shutdown menu....that still had bugs in it.

I don't completely agree with Apple's business practices concerning the Mac and OSX, but you cannot compare the delays in OSX with Vista that is "actively" trying to lock out third party vendors. Sure OSX might be delayed because of a bug and not because of the iPhone, but at least it isn't delayed because they had to rewrite code to allow other software to be installed.

Score: 0

By DudeBoyz

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 3:34 PM

The article was presented in a very unprofessional manner that was designed to hype up a number of responses - not to elicit intelligent discussion.

Don't try to claim otherwise and sound all high and mighty.

You don't sit on some ivory tower - you are simply muck raking, and that is pretty pathetic.

Don't try to pretened to be anything other than what you were in this instance. It makes you look even worse by being a hypocrite.

If you had wanted a serious discussion, you should have written the article in a more professional, respectful manner.

By taking cheap shots at Apple and Jobs, you set the tone for the whole discussion.

Score: 0

By phenomnaruto

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:19 PM

You can criticize Betanews for making an article like this, but you stay silent when they have articles they bash Vista's security as well as the vista release date?

Thats cute, you try to sound intelligent, but all you are, is a hypocrite.

Score: 0

By DudeBoyz

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 3:13 AM

Hey, I can't keep track of every Vista bashing article out there. :)

Honestly, I don't come to BetaNews for the articles, I come for the files, so it's not something I come here looking for.

I just happened to see it on the front page after I got an update notice about a new release and thought I'd comment.

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 5:00 PM

yes. exactly.

Score: 0

By lavalight

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 2:51 PM

Funny how Ed suddenly wants to "elevate" the discussion, while writing zingers like "What's wrong with admitting the truth, Steve?" - implying that Jobs is lying.

The only point of this article is to take potshots at Apple. Why not admit the truth, Ed? Apple and Steve Jobs just pisses you off, and you feel like gloating.

Because the reality is, a 4 month delay is only 120 days. And it's not as if Apple is dropping any features at the same time.

Ed, you just need to get off your self-righteous high horse. Stop invoking people to act all rational and logical while you go off with your thinly veiled gloating. Just admit you detest Apple and stop trying to pass that off as news.

It's also funny how other companies can spin up the wazoo (Vista "selling" 20 million copies in the first month? Gee, I wonder how many copies of XP would have also "sold" if Vista weren't around....) yet somehow when Apple tries to put the best face on things, it's tantamount to Stalinist propoganda. That's called hypocritical, Ed.

Score: 0

By eoswald

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 2:16 PM

I've been reading these comments since we've posted this article last night, and for the most part, people got the point. However, there seems to be a group of people commenting here who seem to want to devolve the discussion (which this was meant to promote) into a flame war.

I can hear some of you already saying "Well Ed, you started this with a title designed for flame bait." My response to that is this: If anyone got that upset over the title, it shows a) he/she didn’t read the article at all, or b) he/she got so upset that any reasoned argument wouldn't even had an effect.

This commentary was a perspective, and is my opinion only. It may have rubbed some of you the wrong way, but it is not reasoning for attacks on either myself, other users, or the site. We allow you to have a public vehicle to voice your opinion here, but from the looks of it, we're not afforded the same liberty. That's a shame.

Some have called us "BetaSpin" and "BetaOpinion," yet all I'm seeing is biased commentary from a lot of users, not reasoned opinion. The funny thing is, a lot of you call me biased against Apple, but I'm pretty sure a lot of you don't realize I'm typing this from a MacBook Pro, or written so many positive articles about Apple products that I've lost count. :) If anything, BetaNews is guilty of not being more balanced on Apple.

I'd like to see some discussion on why I, as a Mac user, shouldn't be upset that I've been relegated to second-class while Apple chases a yet unproven market? Or why some here think that opinion needs to be the majority opinion and all others should be suppressed, and everything else is bias? How about the "life presents tradeoffs comment" If Microsoft said this, oh my would there be a tidal wave of commentary. You'd all probably crash the site. Apple's supposed to get a pass?

Kudos to those who have resisted taking pot shots at the site, and have used the comment area to stir discussion on Apple, the iPhone, and the implications. To those who have either attacked the site, each other or myself, this is surely disappointing. Let's be mature here, and discuss the POINTS of the article, and not criticize one another.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:45 PM

Ed, I give you credit in that you're willing — and able — to defend your writings and your argument here. It's a simple point, clearly stated, accurately labeled (as perspective), and simply titled. Why so many respondents hit the "emotion" button rather than rationally responding is telling.

As I stated earlier, at least Ed is critically honest in his views. And BetaNews sets an example by articles like this. There are some topics — like Apple, like browsers, and such that ignite a flame in many people's brains.

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:58 PM

hurling around "hypocrisy," "hypocrite" and bold assertions like "What's wrong with admitting the truth, Steve?" and "Apple can't face the truth" certainly are sarcasm-free and objective.

lets top it off by calling your critics immature. yeah that's real mature Ed. good job.

whatever point you were trying to make didn't come across so clearly though so maybe, just maybe, there was a problem with the way you wrote it.

Score: 0

By eoswald

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 12:56 AM

Paradise, your reasoning eludes me, my friend. Objective? Its a PERSPECTIVE article. And yes, there have been some immature posts on here.

I wonder what would happen to half of the commenters on here if we stripped you of your anonymity. We are one of the few sites on the internet today that lets a user basically have a user name and that's it. I think, frankly, that many would be a little more reasoned if people could find out more about that poster.

What I've realized here is my point wasn't clearly understood by those who honestly have no objective view to begin with when it comes to Apple. For them, they can do no wrong.

This is the same for those who are the same way about Microsoft, Sun, Linux, or whatever company or idea you can think of.

I'm sorry you disagree with it. But devolving the discussion into personal attacks on this site, myself, or other users is unacceptable to me, period.

Apple DID lie to the media about there being no delay. This was only two weeks ago. Problems this serious to delay an OS do not crop up in 14 days. They knew then they wouldn't have Leopard out in time.

I invite you to visit the Mac boards, where they are talking about how buggy Leopard is. This wasn't about iPhone, Paradise. Anybody who believes that is not thinking straight. This was due to Leopard itself. The iPhone was merely a scapegoat.

Score: 0

By W@KK0

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:25 PM

Ed,
OK since you want to analyze the previous comments as hostile, let point out a few of your own words, and ask you to reserve your angst for a bit.

"This commentary was a perspective, and is my opinion only."
Correct. Your opinion. I see no mention of any facts. Considering this is an opinionated post/article, you should have been prepared to recieve other opinions that may or may not be in line with what you want to tell this community.

"We allow you to have a public vehicle to voice your opinion here, but from the looks of it, we're not afforded the same liberty. That's a shame."
Incorrect. This comment itself is an attack on this supposedly public vehicle you wish to describe for everyone else here to discuss your opinionated article.
There maybe comments that are down right hostile, and that is their opinion. I am sure they appreciate their freedom to voice their opinions as much as you enjoy yours. Just because they are hostile, does not mean they have stopped you in any fashion to express your opinion. That only occurs if you stop your own discussion.

"I'm seeing is biased commentary from a lot of users, not reasoned opinion."
Sir, Have you looked up the definition of opinion lately? Here is one I've just located using google search "Define Opinion" -- a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"
No where does it state opinions need to reasoned out. However, I strongly believe most people have an opinion for a reason, not just to have one. The fact that you may not understand that reasoning, doesn't mean it lacks it.

"I'd like to see some discussion on why I, as a Mac user, shouldn't be upset that I've been relegated to second-class while Apple chases a yet unproven market?"
I'll give you a reason. The OS market Apple has a solid grasp on. The phone market it does not. Each and every company must increase its income sources to provide more capital to grow. That growth could be redistributed within the company to grow its capabilities to provide new services.
Having one product defered for now that already has a good user community and expected purchases does not give Apple more incentive to dedicate its time to develop it faster to market than a new product that will provide a new source of income by obtaining a new crowd of buyers.
Quite simply in my humble perspecitive, its a cash driven incentive. All that I've ever known of Steve Jobs, he could care less about you or I. He cares about money, and it does a damn good job making it. Not that I ever want to be him, either.

"Let's be mature here, and discuss the POINTS of the article, and not criticize one another."
Understandable. So when will you stop?

VR,
Robin Watt

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 2:52 PM

I'd like to see some discussion on why I, as a Mac user, shouldn't be upset that I've been relegated to second-class while Apple chases a yet unproven market?

I believe that they intended more than just a change in name when they became Apple, Inc. instead of Apple Computers, Inc. I believe it signified a shift on focus on their part, and ultimately the demise of the Mac Computer.

Here's how I see it (and this is only my opinion, totally not based on anything concrete):

The switched to Intel for 2 reasons, the obvious being an immediate boost in price/performance, the not so obvious (and where reality slips away) would be the moving of the Apple community towards WINtel systems to help soften the blow/backlash when they simply drop the platform entirely. I believe BootCamp is another indicator of this progression.

Apple, I believe, has realized over the years that while they can compete with the WINtel market, they cannot hope to ever come out on top (in terms of pure market-share). I think they realized the amount of money and resources they were pouring into it could be better utilized in other, similar markets.

I believe this to be their intent and would not be the least bit surprised to see them drop the Mac's and go 100% into the other market's they've set their sights on.

So... yes, you've been relegated to second-class because, business-wise, their main focus needs to be elsewhere, where there is much more room to grow, profit, and succeed.

(checks flame-retardant suit for holes)

Score: 0

By cap737

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:53 PM

Tool,

This is a very mature post. I'm impressed that you have presented a moddest opinion without attacking apple; something I have rarely seen from some of your other posts over the year(s). Not trying to call you out or embarrass you, just giving kudos for the good post!

Score: 0

By Das mod

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:43 PM

yeah, tool is usually an *ssHole about everything :) .....

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 4:57 PM

Lovely.

Score: 0

By Das mod

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 4:59 PM

lol ......

Score: 0

By DotNet_Coder

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 1:37 PM

Das,

He's not always an *$$hole... sometimes he's prick and that's always refreshing... ;-)

(Sorry Tool, so could not resist that one... lol)

~dnc

Score: 0

By SMFulton3

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 3:36 PM

Thank you, PC_Tool, for a well-reasoned and informative response. I think you have some very valid opinions, here: If Apple isn't intentionally planning to render Mac OS X obsolete, then it certainly still appears the company is leaving open for itself some back doors for an exit strategy. While it's hard for me to believe Apple would ever "quit" the Macintosh, part of me wonders whether the company is leaving open the possibility of relegating Mac OS to the realm of small, portable devices - a kind of "Mac-Pod."

True, I too have no concrete proof that any of this is happening, but this is the opinion section of the article after all, and that's my observation.

Now, permit me to cite the entire Apple comment from yesterday in its entirety:

iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can't wait until customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a revolutionary and magical product it is. However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned. While Leopard's features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're sure we've made the right ones.

The delay is not the problem here, in my view, but the attitude. By taunting Vista's delays throughout 2006, Apple set themselves up to take a beating with a delay of its own. Its people should not have adopted such a self-righteous attitude knowing full well that a resource shift was not only likely, but as history may yet reveal, may have already happened at that time.

But the second part of the one-two punch here, in my view, has to do with what a reasonable person can infer from this statement. This is the first time to my memory that Apple has ever issued a statement that implied that Macintosh was somehow a lower-order project in the company playbook. The decision to shift the QA team temporarily from Leopard to iPhone may actually be a sensible one. But to tell the public that this was done because the iPhone is "revolutionary and magical" and then close with "Life often presents tradeoffs," is to directly state (not even indirectly imply) that Leopard is less magical, not revolutionary, and second-class.

This may not even be what Apple truly believes - I certainly hope not. But in any event, this was a terribly botched press release that is uncharacteristic of anything else I've ever read from Apple, which generally gets these things spot on.

-SF "Wishing Ed's Piece Could Be Read Aloud by Jack Nicholson" 3

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:56 PM


-SF "Wishing Ed's Piece Could Be Read Aloud by Jack Nicholson" 3

roflmao...

I'm going to have top re-read that now, with my best Jack impersonation.

Score: 0

By Das mod

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:12 PM

wow, im actually impressed to read such a concrete and accurate view of how things on apple are going...
and i couldnt agree more ....
thats the reazon why apple has focused lately on audio devices and now more broad electronics such as a phone ....
and it completely explains why "bootcamp" has also been in continuous development ...

Spot on tool, spot on

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 5:03 PM

and i couldnt agree more ....

Of course you could.

I expect the offerings of burnt chicken on my doorstep by 8am. Preferably with some russet potatoes.

....Mmmmm. Tasty.

Thank you.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 16, 2007 - 4:15 PM

Where's my Chicken?

Score: 0

By frankwick

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 2:47 PM

I don't see how someone can claim you are anti-apple, if anything is true, you swing towards apple's favor in many of your stories. I was shocked when I saw the title of this article.

Score: 0

By Das mod

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:14 PM

lol, i always thought ED was a mac fanboy ....
reading this article was a wake up pimp slap in the face ....

Score: 0

By ludachrs

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 10:40 AM

Not exactly 5.5 years late but whos counting!
heheheheehhee

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 12:04 PM

don't get me wrong i totally like windows more than os x but what the hell is the point of this?

why do we care so much about what another person uses that we take every misstep as a reason to (in a serious manner) attack the other side?

this is childish and immature Ed and you've really lowered the bar here. I would think betanews prides itself on its articles being more than fanatical blog entries but obviously that's not the case anymore.

Score: 0

By RobertM

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 12:00 PM

"Let us all remember that music phones in general have so far been flops."

Yeah, Apple really screwed it up on the iPod--everyone knew digital music players would never take off, either. :)

Plus, there's a huge difference between delaying something by a few months versus by a few YEARS. Especially since the iPhone includes a special version of OS X, I really don't think Apple's story is all that unbelievable.

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 11:55 AM

Nice to see this is now "BETASPIN" where facts are secondary to biased opinions.

You are making your site look very unprofessional by writing complete nonsense opinion rants...

Sorry BetaNOOBS or BetaSPIN, AnandTech owns you and will always own you because they actually are professional and not a bunch of biased kids.

Grow up.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 12:54 PM

PERSPECTIVE

Ya know...in case you missed the very first word after the headline and lead.

You do know what that word means, do you not?

Score: 0

By GCoder

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:32 PM

LOL.

Here comes PC tool again to fanboy it up again. OMG just give the obnoxiousness a rest. Let your frustrations go bro.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:53 PM

God forbid anyone try to bring a level of maturity in a forum full of people like *you*.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Apr 14, 2007 - 6:37 AM

Ouch, the stupid, it burns! as tool goes on another predictable, imus-like rampage.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 15, 2007 - 3:30 PM

Now it's "imus-like".

You get more and more like the Rat every day. A little more stupid, a little more childish, and you'll have it nailed.

Score: 0

By Program86

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 3:27 PM

Do I care if it is a nonsensical rant by a betanews writer throwing a temper tantrum only calling it a "perspective" so slow people would be tricked into thinking that it is something that its not? You do know what deception means, do you not?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:52 PM

How would labeling an item as a perspective peice make anyone believe it is anything *but*?

Find the troll knob, turn it down a bit.

Thanks.

Score: 0

By DudeBoyz

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 11:58 AM

I have to agree. Articles like this just don't do the site any favors.

Score: 0

By AaronDobbins

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:09 PM

Umm - I just looked at Anandtech and I see review of hardware. That would make it different than BetaNews since this site doesn't do a lot of hardware reviewing.

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:28 PM

There are many others, AnandTech is just one example. Please think.

Score: 0

By GCoder

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 12:14 PM

My thoughts exactly. This site is going down the drain FAST.

Score: 0

By Aires

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 11:50 AM

Ahhh I see, this site has now been renamed BetaOpinion. This explains the tripe above.

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 10:51 AM

The reason why though is Steve knocked Vista for being late and said unlike vista leopard will arrive on time...

It doesn't matter Vista took years to finish and its still quite not finished the fact is Steve made a joke saying there would be NO delay plus isnt' iphone supposed to use leopard as the OS?

So, its ok if Steve changed his mind and delayed the OS but Microsoft does it its cause to put them under a microscope.

Again, yes Vista was delayed the point being is Steve said there would be NO delay

Score: 0

By lonechicken

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:19 AM

Blah blah blah. Personally, I think Apple releases a "new" version of their OS way too often. Do they make you pay for each v0.1 upgrade? Honest question.

What's the big deal with the gap between XP and Vista? I'd prefer they held off Vista to keep working on that file system they pulled and kept it in beta for more and more security fixes before release. But then, that's just not financially good for them.

Score: 0

By lantzn

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 3:39 PM

When Avie was with Apple he said that 10.4 would be the last OS they would release on such an agressive timeframe. OSX has matured and while Apple shouldn't sit on their laurels they will be releasing their OS upgrades not so often. That's fine with me I would rather save a buck and have a stable OS then something rush so often.
Yes but the difference between 10.1 and 10.2, etc. are major upgrades like going from Win95, Win98, XP, XP Service Pack V, er I mean VISTA.
Apple seems to like holding onto the X (10) moniker instead of moving onto 11, 12, etc. like with pre-OSX systems (6, 7, 8, 9).

Score: 0

By mjm01010101

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:18 AM

Opinions shouldn't be trolls.

This lowers betanews overall site quality.

Used to *love* you guys, but this is fairly depressing that you've sunk this low.

Score: 0

By AntiochMedia

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 7:27 AM

Request: please provide links to supplementary content with quotes in articles. Especially when editorializing. Is this all Ed, or are others in the industry expressing legitimate concerns? Is Microsoft really gloating?

Lame.

Score: 0

By Dude_Germy419

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 6:13 AM

I don't understand why apple wouldn't admit that their new OS is going to be a little late, after all better late than never.

As far as all of the ranting about which OS is better, I see no point in it... I use both a MAC and a Windows based PC everyday. The MAC has its strong points such as ease of use, where the Windows based PC has its familiarity. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other because they both have their strong points and their weak ones.

I've had the chance to work on every version of windows including Server 2003. The only bad thing i see throughout ever version of windows is the fact that it "crashes", some more often than others. As far as Mac goes, well... the only thing i can think of with the ones i work on is the fact that every time someone goes to open up Google Earth the whole system locks up. Now I've only had the chance of working on the "Tiger" Mac's but i can say i like the simplicity involved.

So i guess i'm trying to say given the chance, i would own both a Windows based PC and a Mac. I find one no better than the other, but both are great in their own way.

Score: 0

By doriansbetanews

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 5:57 PM

Google Earth may be crashing because you are running an ap that requires a 256 Mg of VRAM on the Video Card. Otherwise, it might not crash, but it sure will seem that it did, since it will take an iternity to do anything....

I'm on a Dual 1Gig G4 and could not use it. Upgraded to a 256 InVidia and it rocks. Never crashes.

Score: 0

By lantzn

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:47 PM

"So i guess i'm trying to say given the chance, i would own both a Windows based PC and a Mac. I find one no better than the other, but both are great in their own way."

Which is why all you'll ever need is a Intel Mac running either Boot Camp or Parallels with the WinOS of your choice. You can now kill 2 birds with one stone. I've used both side by side professionally since 1986 and it's never been better to own a Mac. Besides before OSX my Macs use to crash often, though I was pushing them to their limits with huge graphic files in Photoshop.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 6:19 AM

"they both have their strong points and their weak ones."

Be careful saying that. The fanboys will have you tarred and feathered in no time around here!

And whatever you do, don't wake up the Linux folks. They still think they are taking over the desktop. Its best to just let them continue hallucinating.

Score: 0

By uberfly

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 6:22 AM

foxfyre, YOU are warning us all of fanboys???

Score: 0

By zaznet

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 7:35 AM

I ROFL'd... Seriously!

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 9:23 AM

Why do I not have Any trouble imagining this wacko rolling and writhing on his back like a toy dog trying to scratch his back?

Seriously.

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:22 PM

Huh?

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 6:32 AM

Yup, I don't care what platform suits your needs. Use it.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 6:11 AM

OK, I am not sure why Apple is afraid to simply say that they are running several months behind where they thought they would be.

And "snickers from Redmond"?!?! Right!
Its always insightful to see an author attempt to elevate HIS own editorial diatribe above simply reporting the news. But it is always interesting to see where their baggage lies.

I get a kick out of MS folks saying Anything lest they simply bring the spotlight back on themselves. Let's see: Several months late versus several YEARS late - and then still lacking the fundamental features promised 12 years ago that are now officially dead (read "Cairo").

But "YEARS" versus "months", gee, its just a few letters different. The meaning must be pretty close then... Yeah, right... Its funny the Windows camp would even notice.

But, it is rather interesting that Apple feels the need to spin this other than just saying its delayed.

And if its for the iPhone!? Well, evidently the 14 year old market is alive and well. But then I guess it was the XBox or Zune that delayed MS. ;-)

I don't care if the reason is that they all went to the beach or that they were all busy trying to find functional drivers for their home Vista machines, or that they have been preoccupied trying to find a Linux app worth running that their wife could also figure out on their 15 year old 386SX PC-AT.

And what is even more fascinating is to listen to the pent up ire of so many fanboys from so many camps all trying to make a story out of something that None of them possess the moral high ground to do.

Oh, and as far as the comment below that "Mac hardware and software win hands down". It doesn't matter if their platform does or doesn't.

What IS significant is that you don't hear a groundswell of Mac users complaining about the fundamental shortcomings of their machines or their environment. Something the other camps CAN'T claim.

And THAT may be the one real truth that far too many can't face.

Score: 0

By zaznet

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 8:39 AM

"Apple feels the need to spin this other than just saying its delayed."

It is hard to put a good PR spin on failures. Every company does this, making this article a boring read.

"And if its for the iPhone!?"

Really something that could be easily added with a single download and install. Not even worth calling a "patch" when it is added.

"find a Linux app worth running that their wife could also figure out"

Just because your Mom or Sister is computer illiterate does not mean every woman is. Your sexist arguments are pointless and prove your lack of ability to make a solid argument.

"It doesn't matter if their platform does or doesn't."

Ahh, finally something we agree on. Windows fans more often hate windows more than they hate the Mac. They just don't want to spend the time learning the ins and outs of the choice they have before them. Same reason people will still drive a Ford and the learning curve to drive a Toyota isn't as steep as the switch from Windows.

Score: 0

By lantzn

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 4:09 PM

Sexist arguments??, hmm I didn't read that in his comment. Someones overly sensitive.
By the way there are many articles written BY women who comment about the ratio of men to women in grasping technology and gadgets. Most men are tinkerers and most women don't want to be bothered with it. There's nothing sexist about it, it's just what interests a person.

I've converted many people to Macs and haven't found that much of a learning curve issue.

Score: 0

By zaznet

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 10:41 PM

I relate the learning curve of PC to Mac to getting someone driving a Ford to drive a Toyota. If you have ever driven more than one car you understand what I'm talking about. The learning curve is harder from Mac to PC to be sure and users of the Mac tend to stay more productive and enjoy more of their time using the computer in sharp contrast to the PC users.

Score: 0

By lantzn

posted Apr 13, 2007 - 3:51 PM

Well thought out articles.

http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/bottleneck

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Apr 13, 2007 - 9:21 AM

"Just because your Mom or Sister is computer illiterate does not mean every woman is. Your sexist arguments are pointless and prove your lack of ability to make a solid argument."

You know, you just proved how sexist YOU are. You are like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson decrying Don Imus using the oh so popular street vernacular when you yourself are not so busy being sexist! You might want to look at your own references and assumptions!

First, YOU are the one extending any image to all women! And I NEVER said nor implied that all WOMEN are "computer illiterate". In fact, I never implied that ANY women are "computer illiterate". Only you did.

My mom is quite computer literate with Windows, but she is not intimate with the internals of a Linux box!
And as a straight male I am not going to apologize for referring to the common partner of a straight male. Sorry if I offended your gay sensibilities! My first inclination is just not to imagine a scenario inside a wimpy bar.

And dare I try to make reference to some imaginary person likely to not be a computer engineer? Gee, perhaps I should have referred to "a nameless faceless generic human being not intimate with the internal structures of a computer operating structure" and then listened to you rail about my reference to a depersonalized automatron!

At least I was not generalizing about ALL women as you did you idiot!

And my point stands - the AVERAGE casual user familiar with a common Windows or Mac and who is not intimate with the internal structures of an OS or OS theory is lost when presented with Linux...and that includes many who are familiar with the Mac or a Windows box.

Score: 0