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Blu-ray Shows Strong Momentum Against HD DVD

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

April 23, 2007, 4:07 PM

New data suggests that Sony's Blu-ray is beginning to pick up steam in the marketplace, most recently accounting for three out of every four high-definition discs sold in March.

Blu-ray's dramatic turnaround happened in short order; as recently as the holiday season it lagged far behind the Toshiba and Microsoft backed HD DVD. However, the format began making a move in the beginning of the year and sales have continued to accelerate since.

In fact, the disparity has become so wide that in overall sales from Jan. 1 to March 31, total sales of Blu-ray discs were 832,530, compared with only 359,300 for HD DVD. In total sales, it is much closers with about 1.2 million Blu-ray discs sold to 937,500 HD DVD discs.

Details of the study were revealed in Home Media Magazine.

Consumers also are opting for the Blu-ray versions of titles released in both formats. Warner's The Departed was released on February 13. As of March 31, sales of Blu-ray copies totaled 53,460, while only 31,590 HD DVD discs were sold in the same period.

Sony Pictures said it was satisfied with the numbers, and said they expect them to increase even further as Blu-ray builds more momentum.

"It's exactly what we've said all along would happen - the strong support for Blu-ray among movie studio and equipment manufacturers means that consumers have more choices when it comes to players and titles. And they're choosing Blu-ray by an ever-increasing margin," Blu-ray Disc Association chair Andy Parsons said.

Part of HD DVD's problem could not only be the limited number amount of hardware options available despite the lower cost, but also weak movie releases from studios supporting the format, analysts say.

HD DVD had not commented on the findings as of press time.

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By terminalx

posted Apr 26, 2007 - 9:46 AM

I can't stop coming to this topic, its like a car crash in slo - motion, very painful to watch but interesting nonetheless.

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 1:05 PM

April 25: Wal-Mart Names HD-DVD the Winner

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 2:18 PM

Isn't this the same crap as before, where:

1/ it tried to pretend Walmart calls the winner, but at the same times says about stocking Blu-Ray..

2/ It's still uncertain if Walmart have gone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, due to flawed translation, even admitted by the company (Akihabara) that issued the press release.

http://www.engadgethd.co...d-dvd-player-on-the-way/

And now it seems, even Walmart are shying away from the fact that it's HD-DVD that they have gone with..

http://www.engadgethd.co...-wal-mart-hd-dvd-player/

You woudl think that if this were a HD-DVD coup, they would be shouting from the rooftops, as it is, the sources are making statements, about translation errors, and no-comment...

Seems like it may not be HD-DVD after all, that Walmart is buying.. Oh dear, some very embarrassed people here...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 6:17 PM

Ha!

From the trademark BD BS we've all seen & suffered to date we know that if this was a BD matter the 'drone control' would have had you lot spouting about this for the rest of the decade.

The fact that the BD Assoc is saying nothing speaks volumes, with their track record.

.....and try as you like the truth is the original document speaks (in plain English) of HD DVD.
Translating the words around it it says 'blue laser HD DVD.
Quite clearly this is merely to differentiate the Chinese red laser HD DVD from the blue laser HD DVD we know.

But feel free to keep on clutching at the straws, this one can only get funnier and funnier.

Score: 0

By siryak

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 6:01 PM

You should be embarrassed after how many times you have been proven wrong in the last few days. You are also highly likely to be wrong on this also. Wouldn't be the first...

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 3:42 PM

A personal and biased opinion from an author on engadget hardly proves anything.

Score: 0

By Latz !

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 3:10 PM

In China there are two types of HD-DVD players, one uses red laser diodes. The other the regular blue laser diodes. The press release has been repeatedly gone over by Chinese speaking members at the AVS forums and confirmed to be HD-DVD (blue light HD-DVD).

When it is officially confirmed Ray Dorset is going to be one embarrased little fanboy. Oh not really, he'll just run away and hide like Mark Gillespie and all the others.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 4:03 PM

That's just an excuse created around the facts.

The fact is the original translator has admited a "Huge Error", implies it's actually Blu-Ray.

The fact Walmart are keeping quiet, and the fact that Toshiba are not shouting from the rooftops about it, also implies that it's actually Blu-Ray.

Time will tell, but it's certainly dodgy for the fanboys here to proclaim it's HD-DVD, and the end of Blu-Ray (unlikely to make any dent in Blu-Ray progress, more prolong the format war), as if the tables suddenly turn, then it really would be the end of HD-DVD..

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 5:17 PM

The key words being "the translator". He did not write the article, he just translated it. Now he says he made an error, but many other Chinese readers have also translated and say that HD-DVD is correct.

As for Wal-Mart keeping quiet, did you miss the part about this being leaked? Of course they are keeping quiet! If they did want to talk about it it's much more likely they would be confirming it was a mistake. The fact that they are saying nothing lends more credence to it being HD-DVD. If it was actually Blu-Ray they certainly wouldn't keep quiet and let reports say it was HD-DVD. Sorry but you're obviously wrong. As for calling people fanboys, ever hear the one about the pot and the kettle?

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 3:09 AM

Sony Blu-Ray lasers ramp to 1.7 million a month and drop in price to less than $8

http://www.sony.net/Sony...0704/07-037E/index.html

Considering the Blue laser is the most costly component of the Blu-Ray drive, it seems the cost of Blu-Ray and perhaps the PS3 is about to fall significantly...

Score: 0

By Latz !

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 3:44 PM

Well that's good, they'll have something to sell for use in all the HD-DVD players that are going to be replacing their poor little Blu-Rays.

Amazing so many Sony zealots want a huge media corporation in control of their movie format. If it wins have fun with their region coding and DRM (to this day they are still adding crap to regular DVDs and making them unplayable). Worshipping Sony = IDIOT.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 6:56 PM

"Amazing so many Sony zealots want a huge media corporation in control of their movie format"

It's the superior format, that's the ONLY reason you need...

But if you want another one.. I don't want my player made by Toshiba (crap), or FunChuShin (even crappier)..

Score: 0

By Latz !

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 8:40 PM

It's the superior format

at having more DRM, region coding, more fragile discs, and more expensive.

Let me try to correct your post:

I'm a raving sony FANBOY, that's the ONLY reason you need...

Yeah, that's better. You should always try to be honest.

I don't want my player made by Toshiba

There's nothing wrong with Toshiba, better than the sh*t sony makes these days. You also know good and well that other manufactures are making HD-DVD players or have models lined up. Don't worry though, sony will have to make HD-DVD players too when the format wins. They gave in and made VHS decks after all. Then you can have your precious sony brand player and pretend like you supported it all along.

Score: 0

By MidnightWatcher

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 10:54 AM

Too bad Blu-ray is going to lose. All that work for nothing.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 11:51 AM

And please tell us why Blu-Ray will lose?

It's technically the better format (50GB vs 30GB, 48Mbit/sec vs 30Mbit/sec)
It's got much more industry backing.
It's standard in the PS3, and it's already been proven that PS3 buyers are also movie buyers, by the 70% Blu-Ray media market dominance in 2007.

Those 3 reasons alone make your argument sound very silly...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 12:50 PM

"It's technically the better format (50GB vs 30GB, 48Mbit/sec vs 30Mbit/sec)"

- Actually HD DVD will soon offer consumers the greater capacity (51gb) and we've already 'done' the meaninglessness of that bitrate figure.

HD DVD can already reproduce 'transparency' to the master copy with 30gb & a lower bitrate rendering the bigger numbers of BD a pointless expense.

"It's got much more industry backing."

- Really?

Cos HD DVD is backed by the DVD Forum which I think you'll find has a far larger membership than the BD Association.

You'll also find members of the BD Assoc bailing out and abandoning their previous status as BD exclusive manufacturers.

"It's standard in the PS3, and it's already been proven that PS3 buyers are also movie buyers, by the 70% Blu-Ray media market dominance in 2007."

- LMAO.

IF 3 million PS3s can barely scrape the so-called 'advantage' they have managed to date then that is not something I'd be trying to use as a plus point.

The fact is that PS3 BD attachment rates are appalling.

The truth is that PS3 has failed BD large styleee.....hence previously BD exclusive people ditching that stance and going dual format or neutral.

"Those 3 reasons alone make your argument sound very silly... "

- Naaa man, your comments are easily shown up as the silly ones here.

"I would be interested to know WHY the BD drive is more complex?"

- Because the BD pit 'pitch' is finer than HD DVD's (which is why they can get 25gb per layer and HD DVD 17gb).
This requires a more expensive and complex drive.

Basically they saddled themselves with a much more expensive spec that they didn't need - except for the fact that it meant Sony could continue to use their almost 20yr old MPEG2 codecs and avoid paying anyone else royalties on different codecs.

"Even the copy protection is identical."

- Er, no. Only a part of the copy protection is the same.

The BD+ DRM garbage that BD is stuffed with is all theirs alone.

"Now that Sony can produce 1.7m blu-ray diodes a month, for $8 a piece, expect the price of Blu-Ray and PS3 to drop."

- They already announced their cheaper BD player ($500 this summer some time).

Wake up, any savings they make on manufacturing costs of the PS3 are going to go towards reducing their losses on each item.

They'll only be cheaper in your dreams. :P

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 2:11 PM

"fact that it meant Sony could continue to use their almost 20yr old MPEG2 codecs and avoid paying anyone else royalties on different codecs."

How many recent Blu-Ray releases are MPEG2? Very few if any.. Almost everything these days is AVC or VC1. Even then, there is nothing inheriently wrong with MPEG2, given enough storage space, on a 50GB disc, MPEG2 movies look great.

I would also be interested to hear exactly who Sony have to pay money to to use AVC codec....

Your arguments seem to be very flawed. There are plenty of AVC titles that exceed HD-DVD's upper limit of 30Mbit/sec bandwidth, usig the same codecs, so HD-DVD is constrained. Anyone that says otherwise is lying..

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 6:09 PM

"How many recent Blu-Ray releases are MPEG2?"

- The fact that the ancient MPEG2 was ditched subsequently substituted with AVC and VC-1 is hardly the point.

BD's size came about because of Sony's desire & need to fit MPEG2.

Recent releases merely demonstrate the move away from the original MPEG2......which by common consensus were usually appalling.

Your stuff about HD-DVD being constrained by bandwidth is purely an invention of your own.

There is not a single review of a single title where anyone claims this is the case.

But it's ok for you to run away now, the thread has dropped off of the 1st page and you can be spared being taken to school until the next time.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 6:59 PM

Ask about bandwidth constrained titles on AVS Forums, there are plenty of them, that hit the ceiling on HD-DVD.. (30mbit/sec total for all audio/video/subtitle streams)

The problem here, is the usual suspects here are totally blind to the facts, and no matter how obvious they are, they still believe that Microsoft/Toshiba/Some Bloke on the Xbox forums told them.. It's actually rather sad...

Score: 0

By Latz !

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 8:19 PM

No, the problem here is you are full of crap.

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 6:05 PM

Speaking of lying "there is nothing inheriently wrong with MPEG2, given enough storage space, on a 50GB disc, MPEG2 movies look great."

Also the HD-DVD is not "contrained." You can spout this BS all you want, but so far I have yet to see any proof.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 11:39 AM

'$8 individual pieces' mean nothing when there are a zillion of them.

The BD drive is more complex and more expensive than the HD DVD drive.

Now that both have multi-million production numbers it always will be too.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 11:48 AM

It's common knowledge, the expensive and diffucult to produce item in a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player is the diode itself. (hence PS3 delay) Everything else is relativly simple.

I would be interested to know WHY the BD drive is more complex? They both use the same essential method to read the data from the disc, they use the same codecs in decoding, and use the same method of outputting the data. Even the copy protection is identical.

Now that Sony can produce 1.7m blu-ray diodes a month, for $8 a piece, expect the price of Blu-Ray and PS3 to drop.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 9:31 AM

Color me blind, but I see no mention of the $8 in the article you posted....

Establishment of industry-leading monthly capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet diodes and Comprehensive blue-violet laser diode product lineup including high-power output 240mw model -
- Achievement of milestone 2 billion overall laser diode shipments -

Sony Corporation
Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor Inc.

April 23, 2007, Tokyo - Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor Inc. (hereafter Sony Shiroishi), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Corporation (hereafter Sony), today announced that as of March 2007, cumulative shipments of laser diodes have reached 2 billion units since it started production in 1986.

As of April 2007, Sony Shiroishi has also established industry-leading monthly production capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet laser diodes, offering a comprehensive product lineup of blue-violet laser diodes for the wide-ranging needs of external customers as well as for use in Sony products. Furthermore, with Sony Shiroishi scheduled to start mass production of high-power output 240mw diodes from November this year, Sony and Sony Shiroishi will continue to stand at the forefront of the technological development and market for laser diodes going forward.

top


Establishment of Industry-leading Monthly Capacity of 1.7 million Blue-violet Diodes

Sony Shiroishi has established industry-leading monthly production capacity of 1.7 million blue-violet laser diodes as of April 2007, and has already made preparations to further reinforce production capacity based on future demand.
There has recently been a rapid increase in blue-violet laser diode demand, for use in devices such as Blu-ray Disc (hereafter BD) players or game consoles. To meet this demand, Sony had already installed front-end wafer process equipment capable of producing 5 million blue-violet laser diodes (BD playback-only equivalent) per month. Sony Shiroishi will strengthen its post-process assembly capacity depending on future demand.

top


Comprehensive Blue-violet Laser Diode Lineup

In addition to the stable production and supply of high-quality, competitive blue-violet laser diodes, Sony will also offer a comprehensive lineup of blue-violet laser diodes targeting the wide-ranging needs of customers.

Model name Shipment Date Sample Price
Blue-violet laser diode for BD recorder
"SLD3234VF" (output 170mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3234VFI" (output 170mW, ?3.8mm) Apr, 2007
4,500 Yen
5,000 Yen
Blue-violet laser diode for BD player
"SLD3131VF" (output 20mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3131VFI" (output 20mW, ?3.8mm) Jun, 2007
900 Yen
1,000 Yen
Blue-violet laser diode for BD recorder
"SLD3235VF" (output 240mW, ?5.6mm)
"SLD3235VFI" (output 240mW, ?3.8mm) Nov, 2007
4,500 Yen
5,000 Yen

top


2 Billion Cumulative Shipments of Overall Laser Diodes

Since its establishment in 1986, Sony Shiroishi has become a key site in the development and production of laser diodes, introducing a total semiconductor laser production system that integrates MOCVD (Metal Organic Chemical Vapor Deposition) epitaxial growth with sophisticated wafer processes. It also produces infrared laser diodes for CD players / drive units, red laser diodes for DVD players / recorders and blue-violet laser diodes for BD players / recorders. Sony Shiroishi has shipped 2 billion cumulative units of laser diodes as of March 2007.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 11:48 AM

http://www.google.com/se...US&q=900+Yen+in+%24

OK, so I was being generous, it's actually $7.5 per diode..

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 12:45 PM

those are just different models, I still don't see anywhere where it says the price went down...

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 2:39 PM

It doesn't, and I never claimed it did.

However, blue diodes in the iSuppli report were over $70 and supply constrained the last time i checked...

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 3:01 PM

"Sony Blu-Ray lasers ramp to 1.7 million a month and drop in price to less than $8"

looks like you said it to me...

Score: 0

By Latz !

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 3:14 PM

Why even listen to him, he's a liar just like all the other Sony shills.

Score: 0

By ptksr

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 1:38 AM

"Warner's The Departed was released on February 13. As of March 31, sales of Blu-ray copies totaled 53,460, while only 31,590 HD DVD discs were sold in the same period."

And how many copies of The Departed have been sold in Regular/SD DVD? I rest my case of BRD/HD-DVD both being about as useless as SACD or DVD-A.

Also, if you haven't seen this movie, I highly recommend it.

Score: 0

By MidnightWatcher

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 10:57 AM

Duh, the HD DVD is a combo and costs more. Format neutral buyers go for the HD DVD first, but all things being equal will opt for the less expensive of the two. Look at Happy Feet HD DVD. It costs more, but is superior to the Blu-ray version with a TrueHD audio track, so it is outselling the Blu-ray version.

Useless? No. In fact, HD DVD is catching on faster than standard DVD did when it was first introduced.

Score: 0

By Broo

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:42 PM

and in other news, Wal-Mart is getting ready to sell a $299 HD-DVD player... (or is it Blu-Ray?)

http://www.engadgethd.co...d-dvd-player-on-the-way/

should be interesting to see what happens to the market when an (almost) affordable player comes out...

but don't get me wrong- i don't dislike Blu-Ray or HD-DVD; I just hate Sony after having to deal with their lousy products/support for 10+ years!

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 6:59 PM

It's HD-DVD, the article called it Blue Laser HD-DVD to differentiate it from the Red Laser HD-DVD format used in China. That is where all the confusion came from.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:41 PM

If I were Sony right now? I would be making a cheap Blu-Ray player, based on Cell and PS3 Software Blu-Ray decoder, will all the non gaming stuff ripped out. Perhaps use lower yield Cells with only 5 cores to improve costs.

Piggyback on the work done for PS3, use lower performance Cells (as you don't need to grunt of the Cell, or the power of the RSX), and I reckon it's pretty easy to make a very decent, fully featured and still cheap to manufacture Blu-Ray player.

Who on earth would buy a foo-chin no-name crappy HD-DUD player, with no media titles, when you can get a Sony Blu-Ray player for $80 more..

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 9:37 PM

Yah...Too bad Sony is not that smart...I can tell you right now if Sony had a $200 Blu-Ray player I would buy it right now today. Problem is HD-DVD is going to beat them there most likely. Im telling you the format with the first $200 stand alone player will probably be the winner. The average consumer is all about price and this is why Blu-Ray WILL be in trouble if they don't get their prices down. The average consumer doesn't care about the specs on either format because they don't understand them anyway. All they are going to see is hmm XX is cheaper than XX.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 1:35 AM

They won't do that because it's one of the only selling points for the PS3 (which isn't selling anyway). Of course they'd probably make a lot more money by scrapping the bottomless money pit that is the PS3 and just selling Blu-Ray players, but as you said Sony isn't very smart.

Score: 0

By iwintaz

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 6:29 PM

Wouldn't it be nice to have one standard and cheap and reliable (powerful too) drives to support it?

Score: 0

By Mark Gillespie

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 2:11 PM

Anyone notice, when HD-DVD was leading, it didn't matter that the market was small, all that was important, was that HD-DVD was outselling Blu-Ray.

Now that Blu-Ray is vastly outselling HD-DVD, it seems the size of the market is suddenly important.

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 4:53 PM

I never even mentioned sales. I simply compared the mediums themselves, because like it was then and still is now at this time sales still do not matter. Whenever the average consumer starts adopting, then it will matter. Until then these numbers don't matter. So Sony has got 70% of like 1% of the market. The war has not even begun yet.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 2:49 PM

That really goes both ways.

Score: 0

By Frostek

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 1:52 PM

How about we all turn off the TV for a while and go for a walk outside?

Surely there's more to life than television and movies?

:-)

Score: 0

By RedBoar

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 3:22 PM

Frankly I don't have HD-DVD or Blu-ray and my decision to walk outside or watch TV is not affected at the least by either of these, or which one will come out on top.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 1:15 PM

What a load, 'momentum' my a$$.

The total high def DVD market is minute.

SD DVD sells in the 700 million+ bracket.
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...tertainment/4640658.stm )

Big deal.

This is just more pointless PR spin BS crowing over a pifflingly tiny number which becomes very clear when compared to the total retail DVD market.

It is far too early and the market is far too immature to make much of this.

.....but PS3s utter failure to generate the kind of huge BD movie disc sales some imagined is demonstrated pretty clearly for all to see.

Score: 0

By bluemax50

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 1:01 PM

This article is nothing but Sony propaganda!!!
The reason why movies like the Departed sold more copies had a lot to do with stores like Sony minons Best Buy and Circuit City who carried either no or one or two copies of the HD-DVD version of the movies and that's a fact. Sony may win the format war but only because they control the retail end such as Microsoft does with software. IF Sony wins be prepared to pay a premium for players and more discs loaded with snooping software. I personally won't buy any Sony products because of their arrogant anticonsumer attitude.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 11:50 AM

So, anyone check out the new nine inch nails?

/I figured this thread already has enough asinine replies why not one more!

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 10:14 AM

What makes anyone think that either of these formats is going to last? I mean with streaming media, hard drive recorders, huge flash memory, and who knows what else coming just around the corner, why would I want a collection of soon-to-be-obsolete Christmas tree ornaments?

Score: 0

By mshulman

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 12:26 PM

When a pocket flash drive can carry someone's entire High Def collection, then there may be no need for this. But for now, media is here to stay.

It can be used easily in multiple locations, doesn't expire..etc.

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 1:57 PM

Pocket flash drives are at 16 gb right now and will probably get bigger. However, if carrying the content is the goal, there are portable drives that can hold at least 160 gb of data (2.5 inch drives). That's pretty portable and easier to pocket than a DVD.

Still, I tend to think that downloadable content and multi-terabyte home servers will replace all of these options.

Just as a side note, what happens when holographic media hits the market with 3.9 terabyte capacities?

It sure looks like there is a big fight going on about technology that will be obsolete in a year or two.

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:56 PM

Yeah I was thinking about that too. There's actually going to be 32gb SD[HC - High Capacity] card coming out. 32gb! iAudio has a flash based MP3 player called the D2. Though it only has 4gb of internal memory, it's also compatible with SDHC. With just two of those cards that's more than my current 60gb HDD MP3 player and since the D2 is Flash based you get better battery life (they’re saying 52 hours with the D2 and 10 hours of video!). The iPod Shuffle only gets up to 12 hours and that’s without a screen. I might have to buy one.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 1:37 AM

The problem is price. Will a flash drive ever be cheaper than a plastic disc?

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 8:48 AM

They get cheaper all the time, so it is certainly possible.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 12:22 PM

I can buy a blank DVD-R for a few cents, I doubt a flash drive will ever be that cheap. Solid state electronics vs plastic disc.

Score: 0

By SlapShot

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:45 AM

Wow, all this crazy commentary about some HD formats that have less combined marketshare than OS X.

A bunch of ppl need to calm down, especially Dave and Benjamin. The world loses intelligence for just reading your posts.

Score: 0

By DaveBG

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 4:29 AM

Enjoy hd-dud fanboys!
I am sure Hollywood__ and his other "never tired" mates will be here soon defending Toshiba.

Here is a qhote from typical Hollywood__ cry:
"but we will winn, sony sucks!!!!!!!!11 waaaa"

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 1:20 PM

Of course Dave just can't help lying about the CE support behind HD-DVD.

It's far from just Toshiba alone.

Major CE's behind HD DVD =

Toshiba,
NEC,
Sanyo,
Samsung, (abandoned being BD exclusive)
LG, (abandoned being BD exclusive)
Lite-on
Mitsubishi,
Onkyo,
Kenwood,
+ a number of chinese manufacturers

See a full list here http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/about/member.html

If your going to post rubbish at least make an effort to have some reality in there.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 7:00 PM

Add Imation/TDK to that list now.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 4:11 PM

Bit feeble, when you compare it to Blu-Ray Developers:

Apple Inc.
Buena Vista Home Entertainment
Dell
Hewlett Packard
Hitachi
LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsus***a Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group
Warner Home Video Inc.

Then ofcourse, there are companies supporting Blu-Ray:

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Almedio Inc.
Alticast
Aplix Corporation
ArcSoft, Inc.
Atmel Corporation
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
Daxon Technology Inc.
DCA Inc.
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Esmertec

ESS Technology Inc.
FUJIFILM Corporation
Fujitsu Ltd.

Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
Gibson Guitar Corp.
Imation Corp.
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
Lionsgate Entertainment
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.

Monster Cable Products
Moser Baer India Limited
NEC Electronics Corporation
Nero
Paramount Pictures Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
Ritek Corporation
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation

Source: http://www.blu-raydisc.c...ection-14009/Index.html

Score: 0

By MidnightWatcher

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 6:09 PM

Hey Ray, a lot of those companies support HD DVD as well. For example, Apple, HP, Hitachi, LG, Samsung, TDK, Warner and many others.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 6:29 PM

Apple HD-DVD, don't think so..

http://www.itweek.co.uk/.../apple-gives-hd-dvd-pip

TDK is Blu-Ray only..

Samsung are Blu-Ray, aside from some rumours of a dual player..

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 7:22 PM

ROFL, you truly just post random links without reading.

Had you actually read the article and checked the comments which lead to APPLE.COM PR site it shows this:

Apple Continues to Lead the Industry in the Adoption of HD Video at NAB

NAB, LAS VEGAS—April 17, 2005—Apple® continues to lead the industry in the adoption of high definition video by demonstrating a complete HD video production and playback platform at NAB (booth #1902) this week. Apple will showcase Mac OS X version 10.4 “Tiger” and QuickTime® 7, which includes support for the H.264 codec, along with Final Cut® Studio, the ultimate HD video production suite.

“With H.264 at the core of Tiger and the launch of Final Cut Studio, we’ve created the industry’s first completely integrated platform to capture, edit, playback and burn high definition video,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

QuickTime 7, featuring the H.264 codec, allows users to playback pristine quality high definition video on today’s shipping computers with no additional hardware required. H.264 has been adopted by both the DVD Forum and Blu-ray Disc Association for the next generation of high capacity, high definition DVDs. Apple will release QuickTime 7 in conjunction with the release of Mac OS X “Tiger” on April 29.

Final Cut Studio, Apple’s ultimate HD video production suite, centers around Final Cut Pro® 5, a major upgrade to the Emmy award-winning editing software for DV, SD, HD and film. Final Cut Studio features state-of-the-art tools that complement Final Cut Pro 5, including Soundtrack® Pro, a revolutionary new audio editing and sound design application that makes video projects sound as good as they look; Motion 2, the world’s first real-time motion graphics application with GPU accelerated 32-bit float rendering; and DVD Studio Pro 4, the first commercially available DVD authoring software that burns high definition DVDs to the latest HD DVD specification.

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

You truly are a moron.

now if you have a more recent link that says apple changed its mind let me know.

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 9:41 PM

Curse you terminalx!!! Your not supposed to read the links!!! You're supposed to take their word for it!!! lol

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 7:01 PM

Imation bought TDK's media business, they are a member of the HD-DVD forum. Try to get your facts straight for once.

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:38 PM

....actually I posted CE support, typical how you chose to waffle away from the subject and try a 'snowstorm' of unrelated links (some of which, again totally typically, are either partial, out of date or plain wrong).

This is very funny -

"TDK is Blu-Ray only.."

- Are you lying or just ignorant of the truth?

Why not go and look up who was developing the TL, triple layer, discs (both 45gb & 51gb actually), huh?

"Samsung are Blu-Ray, aside from some rumours of a dual player.."

- LMAO.

Is this another outright lie or are you just slow with the news?

Samsung have officially joined the HD-DVD group.
Like LG they have bailed out of exclusive BD hardware manufacturing and have formally announced the BD5000, a dual format player as well as producing HD-DVD laptops.

(......and they will not be alone in ditching the BD exclusive stance this year either.)

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:55 PM

Hmm, triple layer HD-DVD.. Pretty sure it was not TDK, it was Toshiba and Memory Tech that did this. TDK have never has anything to do with HD-DVD

As for triple layer HD-DVD, I remember that crap, Toshiba tried to persuade people that they did not need 50GB of space and 30GB was more than enough, when Blu-Ray continued to dominate, they changed their tune, then you DID need 50GB of space, and they could do that too.. Wonder what happened to 51GB HD-DVD disks... Disappeared without a trace it seems...

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 7:09 AM

"TDK have never has anything to do with HD-DVD"

- Once more some of the fanclub demonstrate their ignorance (or has it just come down to a stream of obvious and barefaced outright lies?).

"Wonder what happened to 51GB HD-DVD disks... Disappeared without a trace it seems... "

- and again.

The triple layer disc has now been submitted to the DVD Forum for certification.

(the DVD Forum, you know, that massive - larger than the BD assoc. - association of CE manufacturers and content providers that the HD DVD is part of and which ensures a proper frozen spec before it goes out to paying customers).

......and we'll just have to accept you ran away from your (lying or plain ignorant?) Samsung comments.

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 2:43 PM

Ahh, the tripple layer disk, that makes all HD-DVD players today obsolete...

Yep, slightly more extenive than the BD-J revision, which prevents some extras not playing. The tripple layer spec makes all HD-DVD players obsolete full stop.

So either:

Everyone's HD-DVD will be an expensive door stop
or more likely, the spec gets rejected by the DVD Forum (which, yes is bigger than BD, but that's because it also mandates DVD format, for which EVERYONE is part of, including Sony..)

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 6:12 PM

"Ahh, the tripple layer disk, that makes all HD-DVD players today obsolete..."

- Oh dear.

You really do not have a clue how the DVD Forum works do you?

Not that it'll stop you making ridiculous ignorant posts like that one.

Perhaps if you bothered to find out how it works you wouldn't be making such absurd statements.

Nobodies' HD DVD player will be "door stopped" by TL discs......and if you had the slightest clue about what approval by the DVD Forum actually meant you'd know that.

Nevermind eh?

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 5:21 PM

FUD

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 5:03 PM

Sony people really are entertaining. I love how you threw things like the movie studios(I didn't know Disney made hardware!! Gasp!) in your list to make it look longer. Guess you just "accidentally" missed that he was talking about manufacturers and O would you looky there he only listed manufacturers. It truly is pathetic how some people will try and twist the most obvious things to make Sony look better. I mean for god sakes at least put some thought into it where people can't catch your BS so easily.

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 12:56 PM

Dave,

You never seem to amaze me. After all this time you still don't get it.

You never seem to defend yourself after I call you out for being a little girl Sony cheerleader who doesnt even own a BD player.

I know you think I am all about HD-DVD and anti Sony/BD. The fact is I hope both formats fail, no one really seems to care about the "next gen" HD movie formats except .5% of the country. It was all designed to keep people from copying movies, and the only way they could offer something new and different that could be completely controlled by the studios is by offering movies in "HD".

The fact is HD-DVD looks better than BD. Period. Regular DVD will not go away for another 20 years and I think that the "HD" formats will both eventually fail.

Now, when it comes to you, the posts you make and the time you spend worrying about BD vs HD-DVD makes you probably the biggest loser I have ever seen.

You only show up for pro-BD posts by Betanews like it's the high point of your day, and it probably is.

I can tell by the way you post and the juvinile language and attitude you have no money, freinds or life. Just a sad little troll who sits in a dark basement on his Mom's computer.

Also, I think you and Steve Austin are having man sex. But low and behold, you'll avoid my posts when I'm calling you out for being such a loser. 600+ posts on the blu-ray.com forum? That by definition is someone with no life. Just a brain dead 9-5 zombie with no ambition, creativity or brains.

Score: 0

By DaveBG

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 10:08 AM

And i have Blu-ray, i work with it, but you dont have hddvd - this is because you still think "HD-DVD looks better than BD" which is the opposite :) You cant have it and still think this way. Or you are just troll.

You are the one with no life, you see you are here all the time.

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 4:58 PM

Really Dave,

Let's compare W-2's and work schedules. I spend more time on planes than you do posting about BD. And you don't have a BD player. If you did, you would have specified which model to shut my a** up. I can smell a lie like a fart in a car and you are terrible at it.

Not only do I have HD-DVD but I have an XA1, XA2, and the XBOX add-on. The XA1 is pretty much useless as the video out doesnt work any more. The XA2 is a huge imporovement over the A1 and the XBOX add-on blows them both away.

The only BD player I have is the PS3, which I don't use very often. Only for movies, and only movies I can't get on HD-DVD.

Between the BD forum and Betanews, I bet you have over 1000 posts. But now I get it, once you said you work with Blu-Ray, I then realized you are a Best Buy employee.

Which store do you work at so I can come in and challenge you right in front of everbody about your vast knowledge of home theater?

You obviously have never seen HD-DVD, only the format that Best Buy wants you to sell.

I am probably the biggest, opinionated jerk you will ever meet. But at least my opinions are objective and based on my experience, unlike yours.

I'm only here to annoy you.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 11:20 AM

Is this a coherent thought, seriousily?

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 25, 2007 - 7:13 AM

"You cant have it and still think this way. Or you are just troll."

- .....and yet owners of both repeatedly say otherwise along with the independent reviewers.

What a load of BS dave.

You'll be trying to deny that several HD DVD players have won umteen independent magazine awards (in preference to BD competition) for their high quality.

Why not just stop lying for a change Dave, eh?

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

edited Apr 25, 2007 - 5:08 PM

He's like the people in Jonestown. Blu-Ray will tell him to drink the Kool-Aid and the idiot will do it right along with the rest of the sheep.

He is so brainwashed he can't even think for himself. These are the easiest people to pick on as the dont have the wits or the where-with-all to properly defend themselves.

At least Mark G seemed like someone with an education, and you could actually have a lucid argument with him. The a** clown (DaveBG) doesnt have a clue.

Anyone with both players on the same source can easily see the difference.

BD = artifacting and oversaturated colors which the uninformed masses seem to like.

HD-DVD = Superior black levels and contrast and natural colors.

That's why Dave gets lumped in with the rest of the brain dead zombies that make up 90+% of this country.

Luckily, arguing with Dave is enough to make anyone feel like a MENSA member.

Score: 0

By siryak

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 8:29 AM

I just come in here to correct the unlimited amounts of BS you guys post. There is quite an oasis of it.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 8:06 AM

Seriousily, get a hobby

Score: 0

By kashin

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 3:33 AM

It doesn't matter how strong Blu-Ray looks right now. The fact remains, it is still not a finalized format! I know the Sony crowd around here likes to ignore this fact, but it will come back and bite them in the ass. They don't plan to finalize the format until the end of this year, and they cannot guarantee 100% backward compatibility. Sony just never learns. They screw their customers and there's a huge backlash and bad publicity. Then six months later they screw their customers again. Eventually their money making house of cards will collapse and their arrogance will be their undoing.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 7:39 AM

You obviously have problems either reading, or understanding. I'll explain in hopefully plain English for you.

Blu-Ray is a finalised specification.
BD-J 1.0 is a finalised specifiction
BD Interactive is a finalised specifiction.

What you are talking about, are revisions to the spec.

By your reconing, Java is not a finalised spec, .NET is not a finalised spec, nor C++, nor any other ISO specifiction.

Everyhing gets spec revisions... The revisions in question affect interactive content PiP and suchlike. The main movie is backwards compatible with BD-J 1.0.

No go away an cry under your bed,then you spent youe pocketmoney on the Xbox 360 add-on, and that all the good movies are on Blu-Ray..

Score: 0

By Hocuspokus

posted Apr 29, 2007 - 11:27 AM

All the movies that are out on both formats are all available as either regular rips or high quality h264, x264, HD Xvid or HD Divx to download on PC.

I miss nothing by not having BD actually.

Score: 0

By MidnightWatcher

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 11:10 AM

So basically, you admit then that current players are already defunct in that they will very likely not be able to be updated to the future 1.1 specification. A firmware update cannot magically add more memory for persistent storage, or magically grow a secondary video decoder for true Picture-in-Picture, or pop on an ethernet port. Bottom line is this: if you want to be able to play everthing on a future Blu-ray discs, do NOT buy a player today. Wait until November 2007.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 11:28 AM

Or simply buy a PS3.

It's got a network adapter.
It's got at least 20GB of persistent storage
It's video decoding is done in software on Cell, with ample power to spare, so new decoder instances are trivial.

Lastly, it's the cheapest Blu-Ray out there, and among the best.

You can try and derail Blu-Ray as much as you like, but the current momentum, please arn't bothered about a few additional extras. 70% of HD moves in 2007 have been Blu-Ray purchases.

Score: 0

By MidnightWatcher

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 2:53 PM

@ Benjamin -- yeah right, try telling mom and pop to buy a gaming console to watch movies, which ONLY costs $599. And then buy the HDMI cable. And then buy the remote. Not to mention that not even SONY has guaranteed that it'll be upgradable to the new spec coming out later this year. You are hilarious. They can do that, or they can buy a FULLY-FEATURED Toshiba HD-A2 right now for $299 and get a free HDMI cable and 5 free HD DVD movies. Oh yeah, and the HD-A2 even UPSCALES their current standard DVDs exceptionally well, unlike the PS3. Hmmmmm.

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 11:46 AM

ROFL, you can't be serious?

Try telling that to someone who has bought a blu-ray player and now are told "sorry the player you bought less then a year ago is now obsolete you will need to buy another one.

Honestly, you think people are going to go "ok" and buy a ps3 or ANOTHER player?

WOW, just wow

Score: 0

By Ray Dorset

edited Apr 24, 2007 - 6:36 PM

Again, Blu-Ray players today won't be olsolete, they may not play some of the extras, but they will play the movie content and extras excactly the same way they do on movies today..

Try doing some research before making yourself look a fool...

Profiles

The BD-ROM specification defines four profiles of Blu-ray players. All video-based profiles are required to have a full implementation of BD-J.

1.0

This is the basic profile that all current Blu-ray players (as of April 2007) are based on. Players based on this profile are only required to have 64 KB of application data area storage, which is typically used for bookmarks and other preference storage.[citation needed] Most players have more than the minimum required 64KB.[citation needed] After October 31, 2007 this profile will be superseded by profile 1.1 as the new minimum profile.

1.1 (mandatory November 2007)

What is typically referred to as "Profile 1.1" (but is more formally known as "Final Standard Profile") adds a secondary video decoder (typically used for picture in picture), secondary audio (typically used for interactive audio and commentary) and capability of supporting a minimum of 256MB of local storage (for storing audio/video and title updates). Compliance with this profile will be mandatory for player models introduced to the market after October 31, 2007[1], but existing products will be unaffected. No players compliant with this profile have been announced or released.

Some profile 1.0 players may be upgradeable via firmware update to profile 1.1 if they have the appropriate hardware. When software authored with interactive features dependent on Profile 1.1 hardware capabilities are played on profile 1.0 players some features may not be available or may offer limited capability (i.e. director commentary may provide only audio rather than audio and video). Profile 1.0 players will still be able to play the main feature of the disc, however.

2.0 (BD-Live)

Profile 2, also known as BD-Live, adds network connectivity to the list of mandatory functions and increases mandatory local storage capability to one GB.

3 (audio only)

Profile 3 is meant for an audio-only player and does not require video decoding or BD-J.

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 6:42 PM

So the current players are still going to be crippled. Considering the fact that all the people that bought Blu-Ray so far are people that like to stay ahead of the game on technology, therefore they are not going to be pleased with this.

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 5:07 PM

Curse you terminalx for bringing your logic into the discussion!!! Now he is going to go make up some more BS to counter your logic. Well I dono...Here lately they have just been ducking and running. They did it several times as you can see in the PS3 sales thread. lol =p

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 2:57 AM

The only thing Blu-Ray has to offer is increased capacity. Sony rushed the Blu-Ray specification and product to market unlike Toshiba. As a result, a significant amount of Blu-Ray titles are in old fashioned Dolby Digital sound with sub par quality MPEG-2 video. As for Dolby TrueHD audio, Blu-Ray fans probably don't even know what this is. Most Blu-Ray players also do not have user upgradeable firmware.

Toshiba on the other hand supported vastly superior MPEG-4 video as well as vastly superior Dolby Digital Plus audio at launch. Toshiba even released a free user upgradeable firmware update a short time later that added support for 5.1 channel Dolby TrueHD lossless audio.

Why are people willing to pay more money for an inferior Blu-Ray player?

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Apr 24, 2007 - 11:29 AM

"The only thing Blu-Ray has to offer is increased capacity"

You seem to forget the other things it offers that HD-DVD can't:

40% more bandwidth for video and audio.
Wide Industry support.

Score: 0