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Can Microsoft Make Vista More Compelling?

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

October 26, 2007, 3:59 PM

Although Windows Vista has been on sale for nearly nine months, Microsoft has yet to seriously market the operating system, letting a certain rival control public mind share on a number of fronts. That's all about to change, as the Redmond company attempts to make Vista more compelling to consumers.

At an event in New York City this week timed to coincide with Apple's launch of Leopard, Microsoft executives invited members of the consumer press from all over the world to see why they should pay attention to -- and write about -- Vista this holiday season.

With a faux living room setup and a number of laptop and device demos, Microsoft ran attendees through the operating system, highlighting new Windows Live offerings such as Windows Live Photo Gallery, the currently-in-beta upgrade to Photo Gallery that ships with Windows Vista, and Windows Live Mail.

Although Microsoft had little new to show off, the intended message of the event was clear: Vista is finally ready for prime time, and the company will begin telling consumers about all of the great things the OS can do. But with the vast majority of Vista-related news negative, this won't be an easy feat.

Speaking to BetaNews, Windows Vista product manager Nick White conceded that Microsoft had done a poor job with marketing since Vista's launch at the end of January. In fact, the company largely remained silent while Apple proclaimed its superiority and poked fun at Vista, all while the tech media enjoyed lambasting Microsoft's lackluster efforts to play catch up in digital media and on the Web.

But while the negative press may have damaged the egos of Microsoft developers and executives like White (who was noticeably more humble than in January), the company has continued to perform spectacularly. Recent revenues far exceeded expectations, and Microsoft now says it has sold 88 million copies of Vista - more than 20 percent growth in sales for three quarters in a row. Overall, however, Vista adoption among Windows users is still under 10 percent.

In the interim, Microsoft hasn't just been biding its time and hoping for the best. The company has worked hard to improve driver compatibility, with Vista now supporting over 2.2 million devices. Gaming has also been a major focus, along with performance improvements across the board. Unfortunately, Vista SP1, which speeds up file transfers and lessens UAC pop-ups, won't be ready until next year.

Still, Microsoft has a lot at stake this holiday season, which will be Vista's first real chance to shine since it missed last year by two months. Company executives tell BetaNews that 97 percent of computers on sale this Christmas -- including Apple MacBooks -- are fully supported by Vista. Microsoft also plans to work closely with Circuit City and Best Buy to highlight Vista, along with buying end-cap promotional space at a number of retailers.

Microsoft marketing director Aaron Coldiron also promises that Microsoft is trying hard to clean up its marketing messages, especially as they relate to Vista and Windows Live. The company has struggled to decide how to build and sell Web services without cannibalizing its desktop business - similar to the indecision that has plagued AOL's transition from dial-up ISP to advertising. It also retains the MSN brand in a number of places, such as webmail. In turn, this creates a muddled message for consumers.

But Coldiron says Microsoft wants people to see a Windows "umbrella" under which falls Vista, Live online services, and games. Each component will integrate together, such as Windows Live Photo Gallery publishing to Windows Live Spaces and storing photos on SkyDrive. "We don't want people to worry about how everything works, it will just be seamless with one Live ID login," added Coldiron.

To further simplify things for consumers, Microsoft is finally making Windows Live applications available as a single downloadable "suite," although finding the download is easier said than done. The integration is impressive, as are Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows Live Mail Desktop and even Windows Live OneCare, but Microsoft has thus far been unsuccessful in relaying this story in a compelling way.

The first step at remedying this is a new marketing campaign called "Open up your digital life." Microsoft on Thursday put a special site live at Windows.com for this purpose (although it inexplicably redirects to another long URL with a title of CPC Home), which offers demos and information on what customers can do with Windows Vista and Windows Live.

From product names to installation routines, Microsoft has always struggled with simplicity. But it's finally recognizing that if it wants consumers to care about Windows the answer isn't six different versions of Vista and a heap of scattered Web services. And if the event in New York City was a sign of things to come, Microsoft may very well be on the right track to bringing back the excitement it last saw with XP six years ago to Vista.

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By Sven123456789

posted Nov 5, 2007 - 11:29 AM

I always laugh when Microsoft releases a new version of its OS. Than these sites report on there increase in use. Well, dud. Most new pc's have vista. So of course as people buy new pc's its usage will increase. Most people don't buy a new pc because a new os is out. They buy, because there old pc is pretty much kaput.

Score: 0

By cranbers

posted Nov 3, 2007 - 11:02 PM

I have been using vista for a while now. It is still pretty rough but thanks to numerous driver revisions for video, sound, motherboard and other components its improving. However there is still occasional problems. I very rarely find software that doesn't work. However I do tend to stick with newer software available and don't really play any of the older games.

I am hoping that sp1 brings some improvements. I do wish that Microsoft used their money to really honestly improve windows. I know people can talk about how much money they put in it, but in all honesty their return shouldnt be so rediculous and then invested into losing markets, which is everything else.

But that is the beauty of being a monopoly everyone holds you up no matter how poorly you do, because everyone is relying on you. An entire industry isn't going to abandon windows overnight or even within years, no matter how badly they do. I am willing to bet microsoft could go into hibernation mode for 10 years and they would quite simply have 94 percent windows vista users with millions more copies being sold in 2017.

Microsoft knows this and its exactly why they can take their sweet time doing anything they want. Product activation? Sure! Gaping bugs int he os with no driver support practically upon release, Sure! Break 90 percent of software and hardware it worked with perfectly on previous os, Sure!

Microsoft is quite literally the downfall as well as the godfather of the computer revolution.

Vista for all intends and purposes is a failure. No one lined up at midngiht to buy a copy, majority of licenses being sold right now are through oem's which for the most part is all they sell. Think of mac os x came on pc's from all oem's it would be the same situation? Probably not. Linux works but no one knows about it and the majority of people out there would say linux? I can't use that its a geek os!

directx 10 and security are the only real incentives for vista. Guess what, directx 10 is barely better right now then 9 is, security is still being patched every month. So other then the pretty effects and little tweaks of the user interface, absolutely no incentives or benefits to upgrade from xp. None what so ever. The sad thing is it took 5 years for them to come up with what appears to be windows xp with a new look. A completely broken new way to make drivers and well that is about it.

Score: 0

By robmanic44

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 11:29 AM

Oysters have tongues, but they don't wag them.

Score: 0

By joeshmoe7

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 4:58 PM

Personally, I'm doing just fine with XP, going to hold out for Windows 2012 Mayan Doomsday Edition.

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 11:52 AM

OMFGYLAMF

I pity everyone that is still stuck and brainwashed into MS's propaganda about Vista. Its a shame more people cant think for themselves and realize that MS's catastrophic failure of Vista hurts users in more ways than one.

Cross to the greener side of the fence, and you'll wonder why you didn't cross sooner.

*nix for life...

Score: 0

By deminicus

posted Nov 3, 2007 - 8:03 AM

you assume too much and you are biased based on your own needs. unfortunately there are consiquences for every available option.

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 9:43 PM

We, the people, may actually do that if one day we'll believe we get better bang-for-the-buck with competing "desktop worlds". Not just OS, the whole package... Hardware.. 3rd party software.. etc.

Score: 0

By DatabaseBen

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 2:56 PM

Well, I think you make a reasonable point, in that American style of business is in part a method of brainwashing people to turn over their money for something they think they want but do not really need. American TV & radio is a good example of such attempts, catchy tunes, repeated phrases and pictures, etc...

Vista would likely sell more copies if it had a "red tag" on it stating one of these: "SALE!", "Hurry, Supplies are limited!", "Special Edition", "Incrediable Value", "Special Offer for the next 100 people who pick up the phone NOW!", etc...

However, in this respect I would disagree that Vista is a marketing failure. Instead the complex marketing affected those who fail to see behind the marketing, which amounts to millions.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 1:28 PM

Presenting your useless opinion as plain facts again, Program86? And you're the one saying Microsoft is brainwashing us?

You are the one that I put that post down there for...your ignorance is blatently obvious.

MS doesn't brainwash me--I use their products because I choose to. MS didn't buy my Vista, I did. Go in another forum and lie about how GWB stole your health care if you want to talk politics.

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 12:14 PM

Been there, done that. Hardly brainwashed, just practical.

Score: 0

By bigsexy022870

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 1:03 AM

Vista is flashy and cool. Which is nice untill you run into the problems with drivers and stuff. There's no reason it should be so messed up. For those who don't like Vista, good for you. It's here and it's not going away. SP1 should help alot.

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 3:43 AM

If Vista SP1 is gonna be like XP's SP2...it's gonna NOTICABLY slow down the PC, even if gives it a few more critically needed features. May speed up file copy, but slow down other things with HEAVIER services and sh_t like that.

That is why the remedy for Vista's slowness is mainly one: time.

In two years those who hate Vista today will suddenly love her so.

They will even deny ever hating such a beauty of an OS. You know how ppl are. ;)

Score: 0

By nightops

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 8:33 AM

WTF are jabbering about? SP2 STABLIZED XP and even improved performance over SP1a. Granted, XP baseline is still faster, but it's far less stable. Regardless... *nix is faster are more stable that any of the above. I do choose to use XP Pro SP2 x64 and can't say that I have any problems. It's a touch 'snappier' than x86. Since I do video/graphics work, it works well for me. Games play decently on it too. I have a laptop with Vista Home Premium and I just formatted it back to XP Pro...so much for that. I'll wait for Vista SP1 to try it out again.

However, you are correct about the time. It will simply be a matter of time before people just 'accept' Vista because it's the new OS. I do wish more of the market would shift to *nix...any flavor...really.

Score: 0

By extremely well

edited Oct 30, 2007 - 2:07 PM

Basically you say I'm jabbering, but repeat everything I said in your own words... Yes, I know XP without SP2 is less stable and much more insecure (will get a virus within an hour due to msblaster penetrating without any user interaction - simply being on the network).

So I was not saying you should run Vista non-SP1 because it will be faster than Vista SP1, but to EXPECT VISTA SP1 TO BE HEAVIER ON SAME PC THUS ONLY TIME WILL MAKE VISTA A BETTER OS.
MORE TIME = BETTER HARDWARE AT SAME AFFORDABLE PRICES, AND OF COURSE BETTER SOFTWARE/HARDWARE SUPPORT.

Score: 0

By Pixelsmack

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:30 PM

Even with all it's LIVE crap MS still has nothing close to the killer-app product Apple has been able to pull out of their A$$ with "iLife".

iLife contains very easy to use and powerful software. Most of which covers everything and anything some one would want to use with their "digital life-style".

Come on MS, get it in your brain grapes!

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 3:34 AM

Are you trying to say that my hrrrmm free copies of Photoshop, Premiere, ACDSee Pro 2.0, Nero, Dreamweaver, Adobe Audition, Snagit and Camtasia Studio are completely totally worthless in comparison to the all-knowing all-seeing all-powerful all-benevolent Apple iLife???

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sobs softly]

hehehehehehehehehehehe

Macs SUCK (for those who get all their software fo' free)

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 11:54 AM

Not everyone is such a ruthless pirate. LOL

Score: 0

By bradingram

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:24 PM

well seems an interesting conversation - so ill just add my bit

i have a fully paid for version of vista business, a 3.8ghz cpu , 1.5gig ram , blah blah blah

when vista fails to perform basic operations like copying a file, or loosing disk drives 1/2 way thru copy operations etc, i have worries - not because there are not as many apps / drives etc - its because the basic OS is having problems - i have 3 physical disks using 7 partions - and on a regular basis (on clean installs) all drives "disappear" except c - even half way thru burning a CD/DVD the drive disappears , ive installed "cleanly" vista 7 or 8 times, and without installing other apps - it times out on large file copies etc, - this may be a generic driver/motherboard problem, but as far as im concerned - if you can't copy a file - forget it - i dont care about the lovely desktop if 6months of work disappears from a file - because vista "looses it" - ms should concentrate on ge ttingthe basics fixed before worrying about - oh yes "what a lovely desktop - you can tab thru 3d - but ill loose you work and files in the mean time - but i look good"

Score: 0

By ispamforfood

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 4:38 AM

Vista is not the problem in your case.... its your pc's crappy drivers, for the most part. Drives dont disappear on systems with good drivers. Unless they die, of course :-p

Score: 0

By Tenoq

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 11:46 PM

A 3.8Ghz CPU? Like what? That's gotta be a decent overclock. :p

Score: 0

By yokozuna

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 2:19 AM

e.g. Intel's Pentium 4 570J was 3.8 GHz stock

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By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 1:50 PM

That is one of the crappiest cpu's intel has ever made IMHO...it never runs past 3.2GHz unless you run it in a freezing server room. Try upgrading to a core 2 duo...even the 1.8GHz version will beat the pants off of that one.

Score: 0

By nightops

edited Oct 30, 2007 - 8:53 AM

Running my e6420 on air, oc'd to 3.2Ghz on a 1:1 with some nice G.Skill PC2-6400. Gotta love those C2D's...it SMOKES my x2 4400+, especially in graphics/vid editing on XP Pro x64.

As proof: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=226449

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:29 PM

I agree, it definately wasn't ready for retail. They have fixed some stuff but even if they get it working perfectly there's not that much there to make switching from XP worth it.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:03 PM

"1. Let's see in 4 year time if the richest software company in the world (Microsoft) decided to push MORE DRM or LESS DRM, and what effect it had on sales."

It has already been demonstrated that consumers do not like DRM. Thus Apple and other companies dropping it from their songs. Adding more DRM certainly will not increase sales. The idea that pirates will suddenly be forced to buy Vista is obsurd. There is no way to stop piracy, DRM doesn't work. Vista is already being pirated. Sorry, but adding even more DRM isn't going to help Vista sales.

2. Incorporating more and more software is what got Microsoft in trouble with the Department of Justice and EU in the first place. Also they can't just go and buy any company they want even if it wouldn't get them in trouble. It's not going to happen.

Typing in all caps doesn't make you more right by the way, it's just rude. Talking about prophecies too, sorry but I can't take you seriously anymore so I'm not going to talk to you. No offense, I just prefer debating with adults.

Score: 0

By extremely well

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 9:15 PM

No offense taken. I've already made my points (quoting Ballmer's promises for next 5 years re buying out software houses) and explained why DRM will happen regardless of whether consumers like it TODAY or don't. You want the content? Pay. Too much? Don't pay.

If the price is right, you will pay like a GOOD BOY for DRM'ed materials. I personally, who has not a single DRM'ed file on my PC, would buy DRM'ed songs at very low price with extreme limitations - can only play on one machine, expires within 3 months. Say 5c per song.

Enjoy your many other highly intelligent and knowledgable debating partners ;)

Score: 0

By bradingram

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:01 PM

this is a beta "views" site - its not for discussing the morals of piracy , thats up to the individual - we are here to compare how vista works vs xp , and if its worth the cost of upgrading - NOT can i get a pirate copy to work

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 9:18 PM

This site is for discussing whatever WE THE PEOPLE want to discuss, and the only ones to stop us are the site's management. NOT you.

Thank you very much.

(Trust me, my fresh views have probably generated lotsa readership..some would even go as far to theorize that I have a monetary incentive to be here talking to you right now) ;)

But I don't want you to feel all paranoid on me now. ;)

Score: 0

By 9h0s7

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 7:22 PM

your very large ego that expands the size of your head must store the extra air required to spew your worthless comments

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 10:38 PM

It's the other way around - my head which expands makes my ego quite very large. ;) *kiss* (if you are a beautiful woman only, that is)

Score: 0

By 9h0s7

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 7:37 AM

you really should work on forming complete thoughts. it would much easier to figure out what it is that you are trying to say. I feel I should ask you if 'Jimmy is in the well'. And no I'm not a woman..

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 1:56 PM

"it would much easier to figure out what it is that you are trying to say."

LOLOLOLOLOL

[changing pants for pissing in them.]

Oh God, that was a good one.

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:44 PM

Sorry but all of your points are ridiculous. I don't think you have a clue to be honest about it. Adding more DRM and buying out competing companies does not make Vista more compelling at all, it makes it more repulsive. I guess if they were trying to drive away customers that would be great, but I don't think that is the idea here.

(1) Get rid of the stupid Ultimate sku, it's a clear ripoff. Language packs are not "ultimate extras" worth paying a high price for. There are also too many skus, confusing customers is not the way to go.

(2) Work on getting third party driver support up to par, along with software support. By the time Vista hit the shelves those things should have been ready.

(3) Performance is terrible. This was clearly a case of Vista being rushed out before it was ready. They have remedied the performance issues somewhat with patches but it still has quite a way to go.

(4) LOWER THE PRICE. Vista is simply too expensive for many people, especially with the economy the way it is today. Microsoft can still make a profit without charging the high prices they are, in fact they'd probably make more since more people would buy.

Score: 0

By nightops

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 8:56 AM

I agree with #2 and #4. Ultimate is more of a 'gadget' than a real benefit. BitLocker is semi-useful....and the DreamScape fmv backgrounds are nice...but you can 'trick' other versions of Vista to do this as well. Again, just a gimmick. Performance is fine for me. Aero Glass does cause a hit, but the kernel has less leak than XP Pro x86 (SP2)...but not quite as good as XP Pro x64 (SP2).

Score: 0

By 9h0s7

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 7:21 PM

do you even own a computer? look at http://www.microsoft.com...ta/editions/choose.mspx
and tell me where it mentions or stats that the biggest reason to get ultimate is lang packs? if I ever purchase vista ultimate is the way to go. if they were to get rid of any of the 'flavors' of vista they should get rid of home basic, which really doesn't offer anything over vista and runs terrible.

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 9:25 AM

Microsoft has no control over (2), and (4) is ridiculous.

Home Premium is not much more expensive than Windows XP Home. Considering that is the version that most folks will buy, the price difference is negligible.

Hate to break it to ya, but most folks can easily afford $90 for the upgrade or OEM versions. Of course, the $200 on hardware upgrades might be a bit harder to pass off.

Moot, really. Most folks will get it with a new PC anyway.

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:52 PM

How about this, my non-ridiculous-point arguing friend:

1. Let's see in 4 year time if the richest software company in the world (Microsoft) decided to push MORE DRM or LESS DRM, and what effect it had on sales.

2. Let's see in 4 year time if MS has incorporated MORE purchased-third-party software in their OS and Office packages, OR LESS, and what effect it had on sales.

You do understand decisions made by such a big company can be expected to go through dozens of very high IQ individuals, weighing pro's and con's extremely heavily, before acting on it. Not something you or me have enough data to make the right decision. AND STILL I WILL BE PROVEN RIGHT AND DRM+ANTIPIRACY SHALL BE RAISED A FEW BARS AND MAXTHON WILL BE BOUGHT AND OTHER THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE PACKAGES WILL BE INCORPORATED INTO MS PRODUCTS.

Let us wait and witness my prophecy coming to reality.

Score: 0

By bradingram

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:40 PM

hey look - it cant even correct my typing !

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:37 PM

Vista just doesn't offer anything over XP to justify upgrading. They tried to hard to make it "pretty" and edgy and just made a big mess. That the problem when marketing departments try to make an OS.

Score: 0

By extremely well

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 8:20 PM

HOLY SH_T THIS IS THE FUNNIEST THING EVER.
To dear Mr. Extremely Weii (aka EXTREMELY WEII aka Extremely WeII)

Immitation = the highest form of flattery.

Now to all the curious people out there who are having a hard time distinguishing between me, the REAL Extremely Well, and my brother, Extremely WeII (with two capital i's in the end): go ahead and hit ctrl+f right now and look for "extremely weii" and you will realize how my truth resonates through a thousand voices ;)

'tis some good stuff you wrote there, bro! Funny as hell!

Score: 0

By extremely weII

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:52 PM

ROTFL, wow even too stupid to know when you are being made fun of. Thinks it's flattering and still agrees with all the idiotic things his shadow posts. Now that is funny.

Score: 0

By extremely well

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 9:03 PM

My apostle, extremely weii (with two capital i):
"ROTFL, wow even too stupid to know when you are being made fun of. Thinks it's flattering and still agrees with all the idiotic things his shadow posts. Now that is funny."

Brother,
Deep down inside, my beloved brother, you envy my superior intellect and abilities to accurately predict future occurances. But you must love me DESPITE I am better. You must love me because you have someone to admire, which I unfortunately don't (being who I am and at my level).

And I remind you that immitation, still, is the highest form of flattery. And I am indeed flattered, perhaps even humbled by your tremendous efforts to learn me and emulate me the best you can.

And so I remain your loving brother,
extremely well
*kiss*

Score: 0

By tommyb709

posted Nov 5, 2007 - 11:42 AM

Superior you may be, but you can't spell. "Imitation" has one M

Score: 0

By 9h0s7

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 7:16 PM

and all this worthless banter between two people who are more then likely the same person about their supposed intellects has what to do with Vista or MS? If anything the you have only shown how childish you are, go post on barbie.com or something

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 10:41 PM

It doesn't tickle my fancy, but I understand my perverted (so to speak) immitation "extremely weii" is a well known figure (so to speak) on their forums. ;)

Score: 0

By northtown712

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 4:00 PM

It is the Darn activation that really bugs me... I just changed my memory out and it made me activate. since my satalite was down it kept bugging me to activate. This is what I hate about Windows. I have since taken vista off my system and put win2k back.
I hope that MS gets hurt really bad from this dumb micro-managing. It is My OS Not MS... I know that MS says that you don't own it but just lease it... I still disagree.

Score: 0

By Latz !

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 4:26 PM

http://www.electronista....ista.sales.rate.slowing

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 3:19 PM

Alright, I read two random comments down there and I'm already astonished at how quickley ignorant people open their mouths the loudest.

1. Vista works better now than it did in January. By far. It is like 2,000 miles ahead of what it was due to third-party manufacturers finally updating their software/drivers. Anyone who has been using Vista since at least March of this year and is still using it daily--I'm begging you, challenging you, and daring you to correct me if I'm wrong. If I am truley wrong, give me your address and I'll mail you a free cookie :D

2. Open-source supported companies will always hate Microsoft, good or bad. Duh, Mozilla will only point out the bad in Vista. If they didn't, they'd be stupid. They compete with Microsoft, of course they will focus on the negative.

3. Anyone here who has used Vista for a month or less has too little knowledge of it for me to give a rat's a$$ of what you think of it.

4. Vista is a 2007 OS, replacing a 2001 OS. It had major obstacles to overcome in it's first few months. Windows XP had a year and a half difference over Windows 2000, and it had as many obstacles as Vista did. This screams of how well the Vista OS really worked compared to previous launches.

5. If you use XP and like it, that's great. Keep your misinformed opinions and blog opinions to yourself about Vista though, cause you don't use it. Me and other daily Vista users have the right to complain about it, not you.

Sorry I presented this in such a manner that I did, but I tire of hearing 100s of lies about Vista in forums just so ignorant jacka$$es can gripe about Microsoft again. Vista is nowhere near perfect, and there are plenty of legitimate complaints I am open to hear, but only legitimate ones, not those from people who read things on the DailyHateMicrosoft blog and choose to repeat it.

Score: 0

By Latz !

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 3:24 PM

Vista is still much slower than XP, and there are very few reasons to switch but plenty more reasons not to. Nobody is saying it's the worst OS in the world, at least I'm not, but given the choice between Vista and XP I'm afraid I'm sticking with XP with no hesitation.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 1:49 PM

Nobody is saying it's the worst OS in the world, at least I'm not...

Yeah, sorry for the way my post sounded. I was talking to Program86 and the likes, not you :D

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 4:16 PM

Agreed. I use Vista daily on a laptop and two desktops, and I downgraded two Vista machines to XP to save cash (some bizz app wouldn't work on Vista Home Premium and I refused to upgrade to Vista Business - I just stole XP Pro). I can fully appreciate the technical superiority of Vista as far as SO MUCH MORE security and revamped network stack etc, a very good vision for the future. But again, AFFORDABLE PCs today are too slow for Vista. The best bang for the buck is an affordable PC (1GB RAM) running XP..not Vista. It will be VERY NOTICABLY FASTER ON XP.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 1:26 PM

Gotta know how to run programs and know which programs to run. Obviously Vista is not a good solution for many businesses right now because so many software authors refuse to update for vista efficient apps, but for home use, my Vista is faster than XP was.

Oh...and 1GB of RAM is plenty if you use the Vista Basic color scheme...

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 7:15 PM

What I've learned from reading these posts:

(1) Not everyone likes Vista. Actually I knew that.
(2) Extremely Well is a rambling software pirate.

Fixed my post.

Score: 0

By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 4:19 PM

I'm curious to know how you reached that correct observation (2)? Is that by me stating numerous times how Vista is too demanding of an OS for today's PCs (making XP a more cost-effective choice), or by me stating I'd rather steal XP than pay for Vista? ;)

If it comes pre-installed - fine. But to pay for Vista? No way... It's too difficult to pirate Vista hence my recommendation and actions for the forseeable future are TO CONTINUE TO STEAL XP.

Score: 0

By horsecharles

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 2:46 AM

You're both kinda wrong imho: substituting another OS, if one bundled with system is not up to par(for the individual user's needs, that is), is NOT stealing. I recommend to folks all the time to 'steal install' a fully patched 2k, which will actually run even better and/or faster than XP.

I mean, being force-fed beta Vista is no fun-- & one should actually get some money back for downgrading OS!!

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 6:56 PM

"It's too difficult to pirate Vista hence my recommendation and actions for the forseeable future are TO CONTINUE TO STEAL XP."

Oh I see, your not a paid shill. You're just an idiot looking for attention.

Sorry I gave you any.

Score: 0

By extremely well

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 7:15 PM

Nothing of real substance to respond to here. However, when you come up with an argument that may, possibly, unlikely but remotely possibly, teach me some new fact or show me some new point of view, please do not hesitate to drop a line. ;)

Until then, indeed keep your mouth shut.

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 7:19 PM

"Nothing of real substance to respond to here."

Like all of your stupid posts really.

"Until then, indeed keep your mouth shut."

Go f*** yourself.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 7:35 PM

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

ahh the predictable "weapons" of the feeble...

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By Stormprobe

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 11:44 AM

Windows Vista = Windows Me.

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By nightops

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 9:02 AM

Neg. ME is by FAR much worse than Vista...regardless of the flavor. I'm not that big into Vista, but it does have some nice features for 'novice' users, from an admin's standpoint (UAC sucks for regular users, but is great for those who are just picking things up). The only major problem is Roaming Profiles when you have a user that swaps back and forth between XP and Vista machines...

Either way, your post was unnecessary. Vista is certainly more stable and smoother running than ME...but they are both cumbersome and not the greatest performers.

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By extremely weII

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:22 PM

Windows Me doesn't have any DRM and that's why it failed. Consumers want crippling copy protection in their OS, otherwise there's nothing to keep them from stealing it. They don't really want to steal though, that's why they all buy Vista since it is 100% pirate resistant. Trust me, I have vast knowledge.

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By cranbers

posted Nov 3, 2007 - 11:20 PM

Hmm, dunno where your source is for pirating vista is impossible. Try doing a 30 second google search on cracking vista. I bet you have it unlocked in 5 minutes. That is if you can read instructions.

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By poeg

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 11:11 AM

Windows ME crashed more often than an ADD 3 year old playing with his Hot Wheels after pounding half a gallon of red Kool-Aid. That's why it failed miserably. All the OEM's had one hell of a time getting returns for it and they eventually told us where to go and how to get there.

VISTA is/was not ready for retail but it is needed for the leased software model to be implemented and the longer they waited for it to be released the further back that initiative gets pushed. The reduction of all associated business expenses to such a degree as to make MS stock the sweetest investment in the known universe is what they are after. Nothing more, nothing less and from a business standpoint its exactly what they should be doing. Just don't try to paint it as anything other than pure commerce.

Oh and as for 100% pirate resistant... and the Lord of The Rings was a documentary.

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By AntiochMedia

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 10:35 AM

I installed Vista. Then I uninstalled and went back to XP. Then I bought a new computer with amazing specs with Vista. I will not roll back to XP on this computer. Why? Because I like the FEW advantages that Vista has an have a computer that makes me not notice the sacrifice in resources that Vista requires to allow me a few new features. I also like the FEW visual bonuses.

Vista is not exceptional in my opinion. It's a neat upgrade at a cost -- whether it be performance or having to buy a computer with higher specs. OSX is on my laptop and I'll soon be installing it on this computer also. I'm thrilled with OSX as I feel that Apple really take the time to not just add a few applications here and there that users should discover on their own - but they create a unique, enjoyable user experience in a well planned manner.

Regardless - Microsoft will 'force' users to use Vista as developers start to harness the advantages that Vista does have - and XP will start to be taken out of the equation. There's no reason that we can't say 'I'd rather use 2000 than Vista' as the basic functionality is the same and software compatibility is the same. It's all a matter of a user's threshold for updates vs. performance and resources.

I still find Microsoft's pricing structure to Vista to be the most disgusting thing and also think that the 'Ultimate' edition is a complete joke. It comes with too many unneeded 'features' and the bonus features that make it 'more' than Home Premium are scant.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 4:31 PM

I agree with you. It will take, however, at least 3 years before developers harness the full power of Vista's new graphics engine/API (WDDM) to produce very sexy apps (transition effects, live icons/buttons, smooth zooming/turning/flipping, animations instead of boring "hourglass"-style/please-wait-while-processing stuff, etc).

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By cool_guy

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 6:27 AM

I installed Vista, went back to XP and will never go to Vista again.

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By extremely weII

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:03 PM

Yes you will.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:37 PM

extremely weii (with 2 capital i in the end):
"Yes you will."

You're absolutely right!! He will!

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By horsecharles

posted Oct 29, 2007 - 2:48 AM

Naw... he'll likely actually get to skip Vista & go to the next Release.... a la WinME.

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By NunjaBusiness

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 10:00 AM

Wow! you really are cool. (:ROLLEYES)

Guess you won't be playing any of the "new" games, since XP will not be supported by most.

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By nightops

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 9:05 AM

??? You have no clue what you're talking about. Stop spouting drivel. You are only referencing DX10, which, so far, even the NEWEST games out right now are still driven by DX9. The gaming market drives the video card market, and there is no way that a game manufacturer is going to release a title that is only going to be able to be purchased by 15% of the market (that owns DX10-compliant graphics cards). Heck, there are still games coming out that compatible with DX8!

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By Latz !

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 1:27 PM

Guess you won't be playing any of the "new" games, since XP will not be supported by most.

Got any other BS you'd like to spout? Even if that were true, which it won't be for a very long long time (if ever), not everyone plays games anyway.

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By tasburath

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 5:24 PM

very long long time?

There is at least one Vista-Only game already that I saw at Wal-Mart. I would assume that more are coming.

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By Latz !

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 5:31 PM

Halo 2, guess who publishes it? Microsoft. Is there any surprise they tried to use it to sell Vista? Oh and there's a patch to run it on XP by the way, so make that zero.

You're a game developer. Now look at the market share of Vista vs XP. Are you going to dump support for XP? I didn't think so.

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By jonathan_me

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 6:15 AM

Vista Sucks,the only thing which makes vista is direct x but the rest is same and ****, Infact they made vista to suck money from people not to show the new invention. Shame on you Microsoft

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By os2fan2

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 2:47 AM

For a while, i used vista. But it's got lots of unnecessary changes in it. The icons for things like the usb-manager (which allows you to stop devices from the shell), and the control panel, have all been changed.

I used vista, i used xp, but i am back full time on a 2k machine. In the next scrape-down, i plan to put OS/2 back in the mix. Oh well. c'est la vie.

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By extremely weII

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:20 PM

You won't install OS/2 on your quad core. I have vast knowledge about Microsoft and I know you will be using Vista within four years.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:38 PM

extremely weii (with 2 capital i in the end):
"You won't install OS/2 on your quad core. I have vast knowledge about Microsoft and I know you will be using Vista within four years."

You're absolutely right, again!! He will!

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By extremely weII

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 8:56 PM

No he won't, I lied.

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By horsecharles

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 2:51 AM

More than likely 'by then' will be 8 or even 16 core system-- and on Linux... 'may'(slight chance, not troll statement btw) beat the pants off Windows, even in virtual mode.

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By DatabaseBen

posted Oct 27, 2007 - 3:57 PM

It would not be unreasonable to believe that Vista is a product of over programming.

Its like those parents of growing children. They buy the kids clothes a size bigger to accomadate for growth.

So my guess would be that though Vista cannot accomadate PC's purchased up to last year, Vista will accomadate new pc's of this year and Vista will likely fly at sonic speeds on the PC's of tomorrow.

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By ConceptJunkie

posted Oct 27, 2007 - 7:36 PM

Vista wasn't over-programmed, it was over managed. Microsoft really does have an unbelievable amount of technical skill, but the insane, evil management totally ruins everything they create.

In order to make Vista "more compelling", they first need to make it "compelling" and since it offers literally nothing new and useful, at least to a reasonably computer-literate user, and totally ravages the performance of the machines it runs on, they are fighting an uphill battle.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 2:22 AM

Just as he stated - the performance issue is a non-issue on quad-core PCs that will be the hottest items on the store shelves Christmas 2008... Vista, indeed, is the best OS for next year, not this year...

And I'm not sure about Vista not giving any benefits to the users. I seem to recall about 50% of XP users having to reformat their PCs because they contracted some spyware accidentally. Vista will be much more resistant in that regard.

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By DatabaseBen

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 11:06 AM

it think it was a combination of the chicken-little affect and wall street.

it seems that "lessons have not been learned" and people could simply not wait to buy Vista SP2.

by that time, both computer market place as well as Vista would be more stable.

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By c4p0ne

posted Oct 27, 2007 - 2:41 PM

DECREASE ANTI-PIRACY MEASURES as they are unforgivingly USELESS and about .06% more difficult to bypass then XP's measures. STOP..... fooling yourselves microsoft. These so called "tough" anti-piracy measures DO NOT EVEN stop CASUAL copying as you keep saying.

To re-iterate, completely and fully useless, and it ONLY punishes "legit" users. I mean it, this AP/DRM CRAP ONLY tortures PAYING customers. Pirates are not only *not* inconvenienced, but are able to run Vista BETTER with their "cracks" and BIOS emulation systems. In fact, users of (properly) pirated versions of Vista are ONLY inconvenienced in a minor way when Microsoft secretly forces stupid AP patches during their homo-Tuesday windows updates; at which point another AP circumvention method is always discovered and made available within a week usually.

STOP..... wasting time on AP/DRM and USE it to improve your f*cking BLOATED Vista. Trim all that FAT out and leave the REAL improvements like the NGTCP/IP Stack, DirectX 10, Kernel/Memory Management improvements.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 2:26 AM

To me your words sound like a baby crying for taking away his candy. Yes, you are eventually going to give up on trying to re-crack Vista on a monthly basis. You will either buy it, or will steal XP (like me), or go steal something else like MacOS or possibly become "all moral" and sh_t and become an open source advocate.

You, my friend, are gonna buy a copy of Vista within 4 years. Either directly, or indirectly (OEM)...

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By Latz !

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 4:23 PM

"You, my friend, are gonna buy a copy of Vista within 4 years. Either directly, or indirectly (OEM)..."

Arrogance is such an ugly thing. I will never buy Vista directly, and I build my own computers since OEMs are crap so I won't be getting it that way either.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 4:33 PM

You will not be able to sanely pirate Vista. Period.

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By Latz !

edited Oct 28, 2007 - 5:37 PM

Did I say I wanted to pirate Vista? I don't believe I did. Plenty of people already are pirating it though, sorry to break it to you. I'm just not one of them and never plan to be, not that any of this has anything to do with your original post. So again, to answer said original post no I will never buy Vista, directly or OEM.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 5:54 PM

You will def buy Vista within the next 4 years on your new quad-core PC. You're not gonna give up on all the eye-candy (and security benefits etc) that will become MORE EVIDENT in the coming years... What you say you will do and what I know you will do -- conflict. ;)

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By PhoenixPath

edited Oct 29, 2007 - 9:17 AM

Someone posted something similar a while back (though a bit more elegantly) regarding the inevitability of Vista on the Home-users desktop.

Something to the effect that business market drives adoption and that the consumer market follows the business market. Since businesses will likely eventually migrate off of the 7+ year-old XP around Vista SP1 or so, based on the above, it is then very likely that the majority of consumers will do the same.

That said, there's no guarantee any particular person will do any such thing. (S)He may...or (s)he may not.

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By Latz !

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 6:02 PM

You are indeed a most talented troll.

/bows

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 6:22 PM

Thanks, but I'm no troll. ;) I just speak some truths that are sometimes not easy to hear (by hard-core pirates such as myself, or DRM-phobics). ;)

Seriously now, you don't honestly expect anyone here to believe that on your future quad/oct-core brand spanking new PC you will install yucky Windows XP, right? WinXP will feel extremely yucky in a few years... ;)

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By Latz !

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 6:52 PM

I really don't think your being serious anymore, but I'm still using the Windows 95 style theme on XP and will happily do so for as long as it's possible to use it. I hate stupid flashy eye candy.

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By extremely well

posted Oct 28, 2007 - 7:28 PM

You'll have numerous other reasons to use Vista (or Windows ver after it), including:
a. better security.
b. better efficiency when doing multi-core stuff.
c. software that'll come out for vista only, or drivers that'll have many additional benefits when running on vista+.
d. some gui elements that aren't "flashy" in nature that you will still want, such as highly integrated content indexing, rapid access to contacts/shortcuts/etc
e. save you cash on buying third party software because the built-in stuff will be good enough/"does the job".
f. in some way or another, it'll save you time and effort (due to the many many small feature improvements over XP).

I still don't believe you'll install XP on a quad-core+ machine. And if you do, then you'll be in the tiny minority -- the exception to the rule. Not something MS will even take into account when doing their accounting...

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By nightops

posted Oct 30, 2007 - 9:09 AM

1 word: *nix

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