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Corel Warns InterVideo Users AACS Revocation May Be Forthcoming

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

April 6, 2007, 8:58 PM

The question hanging over the heads of users of high-definition DVD player software since the development of software that reveals all the encryption keys used by HD DVD and Blu-ray discs - potentially enabling them to back up their contents - has been whether manufacturers will invoke the AACS revocation key.

This is the feature of the encryption scheme that would unleash a handful of methods "downstream" into the user community, that would disable their players from working now that discs have apparently been cracked.

Today, we've seen the first evidence that the revocation key option, or something very much like it, is about to be put in play: Corel, the parent company of the producer of InterVideo DVD players, issued a warning to its customers, telling them they need to update their player software through the company Web site, or else face a situation where their players no longer work.

"WinDVD customers who are currently using either HD DVD or BD playback will need to download the free security update from your PC or Drive manufacturer's websites," the Corel warning states. "Please be aware that failure to apply the update will result in AACS-protected HD DVD and BD playback being disabled."

The warning does not state exactly how it would be disabled, though quite probably, it's through the dissemination of revocation keys through newly distributed high-def discs. AACS copy protection - which both Blu-ray and HD DVD use - enables both player consoles and software to look for revocation keys in new discs. These keys would disable the players' ability to play the content from the other discs whose keys have been extracted, even if the players' owners weren't the people who extracted the keys.

Another technical possibility is that the revocation keys may come by way of downloading the update software itself, which may seem silly since it's supposed to patch or replace the old software, though it can't be counted out.

"By downloading Corel's free update," the warning states, "you will be able to continue to enjoy the latest HD DVD/BD content, while ensuring that copyrighted materials are properly protected." The implication here is that the necessary device keys used to decrypt movie content as they're being played will have been replaced for this new player, and will most likely have been hidden in a different way.

Users of the Doom9 Forum have been actively working to develop what they describe as legal backup software for high-def discs, not to be used for piracy but instead for fair use. Last month, the Doom9 user whose handle is arnezami who last February discovered a process for detecting decryption keys from a memory dump, posted a utility program which reveals all of the encryption keys AACS uses for any given Blu-ray or HD DVD disc. Testers elsewhere on the forum verified the utility's efficiency.

Though press reports have described arnezami's process as "cracking" AACS, an evaluation of the theory behind his methods reveals he isn't actually cracking anything - simply re-using the device and media keys that have to be revealed in memory at some point in order for the software itself to be able to decrypt the disc. Still, Corel characterizes the individuals behind this and similar activities as "hackers," and implies that these people may be working against the rights of otherwise legitimate disc owners, preventing them from viewing the content they'd purchased.

A bill introduced last February before the US House of Representatives would make the use of arnezami's or similar processes perfectly legal, specifically in the case of individuals making backups of discs they'd already purchased. However, the bill - if passed - would not render illegal the deployment of revocation keys by disc player software or hardware manufacturers or by studios and content producers, although it might create the situation whereby individuals could sue for the right not to have their licensed content be revoked at will.

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By Program86

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 10:06 AM

And this is news now? We have already developed a workaround for this... Visit us at Doom9!

Have a nice day!

Score: 0

By lonechicken

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 9:25 AM

Ah. One day, I'll have to ask for permission to scratch my butt.

Score: 0

By peedy

edited Apr 8, 2007 - 1:20 AM

This is only a temporary roadblock. The new keys will be captured and distributed as well. Its going to be a never ending cycle.

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 3:01 PM

This is why Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can both burn in hell. I'm not buying any player that forces me to connect to their web site to have it's DRM infection updated every time they get a whim.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:45 PM

That's the beauty of it.

Unfortunately, the Jonses, in keeping with their kind, will pay no mind to the restrictions and buy 'em up like candy anyway.

Score: 0

By yokozuna

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 1:52 PM

Let me guess, Corel is going to use infamous Protexis in WinDVD, just like in Paint Shop Pro Photo XI. The module is pain in the a.. and it has more in common with spyware (e.g. runs in the memory and transmits data to Corel even if the main program has been deleted from your HDD) rather than any form of activation. More about it for example here: http://forums.dpreview.c...04&message=22097593
What is funny (???) Protexis itself can make your computer crawl, however, graphic programs and HD-DVD and BR decoding are rather demanding tasks.

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Apr 8, 2007 - 12:00 AM

This is true to my experience, and even though I used CorelDRAW since version 2, I no longer touch anything Corel because of this invasive, abusive software. All the more reason open source software is getting regular donations from moi.

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 3:16 PM

Yeah, I'd say with *Jasc* Paint Shop Pro. There last version was 9.1. Although I've used it for years, there's still a lot abot it that I don't know.

I think Corel messed up PSP. I won't ever use there version.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 11:51 AM

AACS is a fundamental condition to both HDDVD and BluRay licensing.

If you don't like AACS, then simply don't employ either standard.

Score: 0

By zzzvkxeywkrhll

edited Apr 8, 2007 - 9:39 AM

wrong. aacs is mandatory for bluray, but is optional for hddvd (some hddvds have already been released without aacs). eg. see here: http://www.avsforum.com/...&&#post10058863

Score: 0

By Noremacam

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 11:16 PM

I totally agree with you. I should purchase non drm'ed high definition movies.

Oh wait.

Score: 0

By Mystiqq

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 7:44 AM

I wonder how long until this "revocation" will get some real "headlines". It just "smells" like trouble...

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 2:51 AM

This is a good thing as it will only decrease piracy. Most people who crack AACS or CSS (on regular DVD's) only do it to sell or give away illegal copies of a movie. Only a very small percentage of people actually crack the copy protection to make a backup copy of a movie they've actually purchased that is strictly for personal, non commercial use.

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 2:38 PM

You may be confusing copies with cracks.

1 pirate crack => 1000s illegal copies
100 backup cracks => 100 legal backup copies

it's okay, crack confuses some people.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 3:15 PM

crack confuses some people.

lmao...

That was perfect.

Score: 0

By Avion Airplane

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 10:32 AM

Only a very small percentage of people actually crack the copy protection to make a backup copy of a movie they've actually purchased that is strictly for personal, non commercial use.

Well I guess im in that small percentage then ....cause thats exactley what i do ....

Score: 0

By leaglebob

edited Apr 7, 2007 - 10:08 AM

ALL purchased DvD's should be backuped as the first thing you do. Don't pirate but don't be stoopid!!!!! Its silly for "FAIR USE" not to be mandated by Congress. Meanwhile, the oceans are rising, violins fade. //// Bobbo

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:42 PM

Fair Use isn't a set of rights, my friend. It is simply a few guidelines a judge can use to determine whether certain cases of copyright infringement can be allowed.

As such, even though past caselaw may have indicated certain judges interpretations of the exceptions as including backup, it is not specifically protected under any portion of the Copyright law, including the Fair Use exceptions.

Although the doctrine of fair use was originally created by the judiciary, it is now set forth in the Copyright Act. Under the Act, four factors are to be considered in order to determine whether a specific action is to be considered a "fair use." These factors are as follows:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


No specific rights are granted, no specific uses validated. The judge can weight these exclusions any way he chooses or ignore them entirely. Recent rulings indicate that the assumed right to "backup" may be going the way of the dinosaurs.

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 8:43 AM

Don't be silly, no government can grant rights. You are born with your rights just like you are born with your fingers. When we have a government that thinks it can decide how many of your fingers or how many of your rights you get to keep, it's time to fight.

DRM is like a solid wall that has been painted to look like it has a doorway. The old media companies are going to keep throwing themselves against that wall trying to get through a door that is not there. They will either dash themselves into oblivion or come to realize, if it can be played it can be copied.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 12:45 PM

One of the rights we are born with, in many people's view, is the right to control your own works.

Whatever happened to *that* right?

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

edited Apr 10, 2007 - 2:26 PM

If you make something it is yours until you sell it. Then it belongs to somebody else. I never heard of a right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their own things because you used to own them.

Maybe if you got a lawyer to write up a contract you could get people to sign it and then they would pay you for a thing, but then not really own it. But who would sign that?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 3:14 PM

I never heard of a right to tell other people what they can and can't do with their own things because you used to own them.

And that is where you fail to understand what this is all about.

You didn't buy it. You bought the rights to listen to/watch it. The original owner still owns all other rights to that song/movie/artwork.

Maybe if you got a lawyer to write up a contract you could get people to sign it and then they would pay you for a thing, but then not really own it.

You "sign" that contract every time you purchase a CD, DVD or legally download a copy.

I find it hard to believe you did not know this already and suspect you are simply another one of those folks who disagree with the concept. Which is fine. But ignoring the fact that that concept is accepted and honored by the vast majority (much less written into law), simply screams ignorance.

Score: 0

By Avion Airplane

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 10:37 AM

So all the backups of season 1 and 2 of BONAZA on my computer are illegal ?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 12:14 PM

Did I say that??

If so, please point that out, because I don't recall *ever* saying that.

Did you even *read* my post, or did you just skim the first line and jump right into troll mode?

*shakes head*

Score: 0

By Avion Airplane

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 9:09 PM

No SIr ..... I did not say you did :)

And I did read your post..I think it was very imformative thank you .

So I guess a judge caould say that my backups on my computer are illegal ?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Apr 10, 2007 - 8:55 AM

Yes, a judge coauld. :p

Highly doubtful that they would though.

Score: 0

By Tene

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 4:57 AM

Not used *nix before, have you?

Score: 0

By saint.alpha

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 3:00 AM

The pirates (which is a small minority of people really anyway) will just develop a new way to break the new encryptions and continue on their merry way...

Score: 0

By Neoprimal

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 1:51 AM

OK I'm not fully understanding this....so, essentially, they can break your $600 DVD player if you don't update software? "These keys would disable the players' ability to play the content from the other discs whose keys have been extracted, even if the players' owners weren't the people who extracted the keys."
Because that doesn't sound very 'friendly', in fact it almost sounds criminal. What's to stop hardware and software manufacturers from breaking your equipment and crying foul?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:37 PM

So far, this is software we're talking about, not your set-top boxes.

Score: 0

By Keith Lard

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 8:41 AM

The are not breaking your player, they are forcing you to update the software to prevent piracy..

So different from any other forced updates..

Score: 0

By Neoprimal

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 5:06 AM

Oh well that's not too bad then. I thought it edited code in the actual hardware to stop the hardware unit from playing DVDs at all.

Sorry, the word player mixed me up a bit. Well this isn't too bad at all then...it is how it should be, kinda. It would still be nice to have the 'freedom' to backup DVDs - though, honestly, who really ever does that? LOL. I mean, I thought about that about a week ago. I used to backup DVDs but now, backing up 130+ movies isn't one of my To-Dos.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, and because I'm really bored - here's how I'd FIX this 'DVD backup' excuse once and for all!

Before this can work, all the big movie publishers have to create a database...Call it a Universal Movie Library Database. People who buy DVDs go to the website and register the DVD. From now on, the DVD belongs to one person. The ID is based on Social Security since that never changes or if people don't want to use that, they can use credit/debit card/driver's license numbers. So, Everytime David buys a new DVD he logs in and adds the DVD to his library and from that point forward he's got a lifetime warranty where the DVD will be replaced no matter what....all he needs to pay for is the price of the media, which is for arguments sake $1.

Each movie sale (be it box, 2 disc, 3 disc etc.) comes with 2 CODES. 1st code = warranty code, with this code the owner is able to replace the defective/worn/broken etc. product for the cost of the media. This can be done either through mail or 'authorized' distribution centers like for eg. Blockbuster, Hollywood Video etc. etc.
2nd code = transfer code and is used by people selling used DVDs. I'll explain this later.

1st code works like this. Say David buys a DVD, his dog has finally gotten hold of it after about the 3rd year of owning it and the DVD is no more. It's bluray/hd dvd hybrid. He either sends the disc by mail to a replacement center or walks into an authorized center. These centers simply look into the database and see that David Doe is the owner of the DVD and send/give him a replacement. That's that.

Now, say David no longer wants a DVD. This is where the second code comes in hand. He goes into the database and revokes the 1st code, making the second code fully active. He posts the second code on ebay or wherever he's selling the DVD. Potential buyers can then use the second code within the database and see that it's linked to "Xmen 1.5" and that it's USED/In Warranty/Inactive which means the dvd has been owned by someone, but they are tranferring it or are no longer claiming ownership vs. USED/In Warranty/Active which means the dvd is owned by someone and the first code isn't revoked (dvd is either stolen or person hasn't removed it from their ID) or NEW/In Warranty/Inactive (Brand New/Never used or associated with someone). The second code is always partially active but becomes fully active only after the first code has been revoked for the first time. Anyway, after owner 2 receives the DVD, he uses the first code just as David did to register the DVD under his name and so the process begins again.

And so, that's how my system would work! Noone would cry foul for need to backup anything and this would save people trouble too. No more buying bootlegs from ebay.

The dvd information screens would be filled with information for the owner. Simple and to the point. For eg. here's a typical screen:

Superman (Details of the movie like date made, etc. etc. Running time, etc. etc)

Condition/Warranty Status/Registration Status:
Used/In Warranty/Active. The page would also say how many times the disc has been replaced as well as RMA status (in case it was mailed).
When do you get any status but /In Warranty/ with a disc? Lets say you lie about the disc or it's stolen/destroyed in the mail. You'd still get a replacement, but the warranty for that disc would be revoked completely so, someone using the second code or trying to register the first would see this information.
Used/Revoked/Void meaning the disc is used, the warranty is revoked on the disc (so it can't be replaced/repaired ever) and the registration is void.

The Codes would have to be printed on the box and disc. 1st and 2nd on the disc and 2nd alone on the box. For advanced optical tech. like bluray/hddvd possibly within the disc as well (You can never be too safe when it comes to copyright, right?).

What's to stop a person from using a stolen DVd, brand new. Nothing. But the store owner can always report the disc stolen to the UMLD in which case the status would read Stolen/Revoked/Void for both 1st and 2nd code entry/queries. Sure the thief could use it, but he can't sell it. He could also worry about bluray/hddvd players refusing to play the disc.

....Whew....time to sleep.

If this stuff ever shows up in the future, let it be known that *I* thought of it first! :D

Score: 0

By notomat

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 12:27 AM

"By downloading Corel's free update," the warning states, "you will be able to continue to enjoy the latest HD DVD/BD content, while ensuring that copyrighted materials are properly protected."

Classic phishing profile.

Score: 0

By SMFulton3

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 4:30 PM

notomat, that is an extremely good point. Software manufacturers may not have thought about the likelihood of users (registered or not) telling them to go "here" to upgrade their player software. Of course, in Corel's case, this notice appeared on its own Web site; but as phishers have proven, it's not too difficult to make people think they're reading a notice from a manufacturer's Web site when they're not.

For the sake of security, you'd think software manufacturers would use, say, PGP signing for their e-mail messages. It's amazing what you can do with cryptography these days.

-SF3

Score: 0

By Banquo

posted Apr 6, 2007 - 9:47 PM

There are Corel Intervideo users? Seriously?

Score: 0

By Registered

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 9:15 AM

so what if one buys this software but doesn't have internet connection,

doesn't sound fair play to me at all,

Score: 0

By dhjdhj

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 11:05 AM

a) who doesn't have an internet connection these days?
b) if you don't have an internet connection, then you won't be able to pirate anything anyway.

No problem (grin)

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 3:03 PM

Uh, people that don't have a computer. Which is a hell of a lot whether you know it or not. Having to have an ISP just so you can watch movies on your living room television is bullcrap. All this DRM nonsense is going to far, and it doesn't stop the pirates at all anyway. Doesn't even slow them down, just makes it a pain for honest consumers.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:34 PM

Uh, people that don't have a computer.

uhh...

Then they won't be using the InterVideo *SOFTWARE*, now will they?

Durrr....

Score: 0

By Alex Stevens

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 11:23 PM

I thought this was about set top players, I don't have a clue what Intervideo is but if it's Corel I don't care. Anyway there are lots of people with computers that don't have the internet either.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 9:19 AM

Yeah, but computers with hiDef players and no internet connection?

Doubtful.

Score: 0

By dlab21

edited Apr 7, 2007 - 2:10 PM

if you don't have an internet connection then your player software could not be updated to block the keys. They can't install a patch to the player software to recognize the new keys that will work but if its already searching each time its used for a database of keys that are no longer useable then thats how it is disabled.
point is if your not able to update it through the internet then neither are they, only disks they purchase in the future with different keys may not work, in which they have every right to do as it is their product.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:42 PM

actually they will probably automatically update your software soon as you pop in a dvd that has the update on it...

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Apr 8, 2007 - 11:54 PM

In that case, could one make software and burn it in order to reverse some of those "updates"?

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 1:56 PM

I know many people without an Internet connection. Also, if one doesn't have an Internet connection and therefore can't download the update, they'll be sitting ducks the next time they put a disc into their player.

Companies shouldn't have the right to dictate who can own a device or what movies one can watch, especially when it comes to a consumer device. And with the ability to revoke any/all keys, that is a possibility. You might say it won't happen, but companies shouldn't have the opportunity to do so.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 7, 2007 - 10:35 PM

Also, if one doesn't have an Internet connection and therefore can't download the update, they'll be in luck because the current player won't get the revocation.

There, fixed that for ya. :)

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Apr 8, 2007 - 3:18 AM

The article mentioned that the revocation of keys probably would be from "newly distributed high-def discs". Seems you missed that. :P Without an Internet connection, they won't be "in luck".

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 9:16 AM

Seems I did. :)

I gotta assume that if someone has a Blu-Ray/HD DVD drive, they most likely have some kind of itnarweb connection...

Score: 0

By WeezulDK

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 12:14 PM

Actually, I know a few people who live out in the sticks and only have dialup internet on their computers, and nothing else in the house has net access. It's a real pain in the arse when they need to get updates for their Tivos and sat dishes over the phone line, one in particular actually has to run a 50 foot line across a couple rooms and down the hall to update hers on a regular basis.

Not everyone has a "connected home".

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Apr 10, 2007 - 8:13 AM

Those few folks have it rough, I agree. But it's the price of 'living in the sticks'. No sane company is going to base their decisions on these folks, for good or bad.

Score: 0

By burfadel

posted Apr 9, 2007 - 4:23 PM

I can imagine there are quite a few 'hackers' (not the correct term but you know what I mean) out there licking their lips at the moment. They're waiting for it to become a fully-fledged standard, then release their virusus which will wipe the firmware from every connected player... Put in a 'timebomb' to make it more effective...

Score: 0