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EFF: Your Printer is Watching You

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

October 18, 2005, 3:16 PM

Researchers with the Electronic Frontier Foundation claimed Monday they have broken a code that some color laser printers print with every page. According to the group, the Secret Service has admitted they encoded the data into the pages in order to track counterfeiters, however the data stored in the code was not known before the discovery.

In one line of printers, the date and time the print was made, as well as the serial number of the printer were encoded into the document. The dots appear on printers by Xerox, Canon, HP and others, of which the group provided a list.

"So far, we've only broken the code for Xerox DocuColor printers," EFF staff technologist Seth David Schoen said in a statement. "But we believe that other models from other manufacturers include the same personally identifiable information in their tracking dots."

The dots are yellow in color and very small, and are repeated throughout a document. In order to see a pattern, the dots must be viewed under a magnifying glass or microscope, the EFF said.

To break the code, EFF researchers asked for submissions from supporters and then compared the patterns to one another to look for similarities and differences.

The EFF complains that while printer manufacturers have admitted they use the practice, there are no laws protecting U.S. citizens from abuse of the tactic.

"This technology makes it easier for governments to find dissenters," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Lee Tien. "The logical next question is: what other deals have been or are being made to ensure that our technology rats on us?"

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By MyVicinity

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 8:43 AM

I wonder when people realize that *everything* they do can be traced, even your pictures made with your digital camera, and that's for good reason because who doesn't want to track child porn back to its root?

Score: 0

By bukaroo12

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:05 AM

Here is some further reading on the subject. It's pretty interesting. There are some pictures here of what's actually going on (second link). Check it out.

http://www.eff.org/news/...ives/2005_10.php#004063

http://www.eff.org/Priva...color/index.php#program

Score: 0

By rijp

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 9:47 AM

Obviously the feds felt a need to do this, otherwise there wouldn't be a need. When people print money on a printer with the same or better precision than the Federal Reserve plates, they need to be able to distinguish the counterfeit from the genuine.

If you people actually took 1, just 1 minute and think about the impact and what the content is, you would actually find meaning. But no, you people have to go off half c***ed and not realize the implications.

Are you a counterfeiter? Do you routinely print documents that are forgeries on a color copier? NO?

OK, so this doesnt' concern you now does it? Go back and drink your coffee and shut the hell up.

Score: 0

By nrlz

edited Oct 20, 2005 - 6:01 PM

1. Using invisible dots to distinguish counterfeit from genuine money is stupid. It only allows people who know about the system to be able to use it, which means 99% of the general public would still be unable to distinguish counterfeit from genuine.

2. Distinguishing counterfeit from genuine doesn't require personal identifiable information. The existence of a pattern of dots is more than enough. I don't need to know that Fat Tony printed this money to know that it is fake. And why allow the crime in the first place and then decide to track them later, when you can stop the crime from even beginning (see 3).

3. There are easier ways to ensure that money can't be printed with home printers such as by using ultra-violet watermarks and embedded metal-stripes in the paper, which printers cannot do; which I believe are already a standard.

It's easy to see that the technology wasn't designed to stop counterfeit money because (1) there are better technologies to do this; (2) this technology goes above and beyond what is necessary, which implies that it is used for something else.

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:00 AM

Oh Crikey! We got us a live one!

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 10:12 AM

When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; afterall, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.
-Martin Niemoller (1892-1984)
Protestant Minister - Nazi Germany

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:29 PM

So I should jump up and protest this based on *your* FUD?

Nah, sorry, you can keep your paranoia. I heard it can have some rather nasty side-effects.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:32 AM

I didn't realize counterfeiting was a belief-system.

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 12:18 PM

I don't think it is. However if you are naive enough to think that the use of these techniques will stop with counterfeiting, I'd say that is your personal choice.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:17 PM

Choice? Why yes, indeedy.

Optimisism based on observable phenomena vs. Pessimism based on fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD).

Tough choice, really.

...or not.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:12 PM

Yup. It sure is. Fortunately, I believe our governmental system has enough checks and balances to keep your doomsday scenarios from happening.

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 9:16 AM

Now if they do stuff like this it makes me wonder sometimes about Big Brother. The best system is the one you never notice!

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 9:55 AM

Absolutely true! Intrusive government projects such as Carnivore and Echelon are unreal, yet probably ancient technology compared to what exists now. Harmless, unless you're doing something illegal? Depends upon what you believe. Several European nations say data gathered in that manner has been used to give competitive bidding edges to U.S. companies over European companies. Who knows? I guess it's a matter of "faith."

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:03 AM

I don't know about competitive bidding edges but if you think for one second that the US or the UK does not monitor it's people...oh no! I've said too much! :P

Score: 0

By turbo_nissan_racer

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 6:46 AM

HITLER WAS RIGHT YOU FAGGOT, JEWS ARE BEHIND THIS PRINTER PLOY TO RAPE YOU IN THE ARSE

Score: 0

By horsecharles

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 1:47 AM

This is the perfect example of why I avoid lots of sites, and key proof of why MOST website owners and admins are dweebs:

posts such as the one directly above are not touched, while many that are deemed to supposedly have veered off-topic-- are freely edited / deleted, often w/ no warning & reason given.

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:04 AM

OK...Just make sure the door does not hit you in the ass.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:57 AM

Way to bash folks for making valid criticisms of the site's moderation.

Score: 0

By Ivan Overkill

edited Oct 19, 2005 - 3:51 AM

Those of you who laugh and say thgat as long as you're not doing anything illegal you don't need to be concerned are missing the point. What you need to worry about is not what is illegal today, but what may be defined as illegal or subversive tomorrow. Also you shoulod remember that the US government has not always restricted their activities to only going after people engaging in illegal activity. Those of you who are too young to remember should look up the history of COINTELPRO, to mention only one well known example. To believe that the official end of that program marked the end of this type of activity is naive in the extreme. You might also think on the sweeping changes in tgovernment power that came overnight with the passing of Patriot Acts 1 & 2 - and how people were investigated for previous activities that were legal at the time. You should also refresh your knowledge of the period of German history leading up to WWII and how the Nazis gradually eroded citizen's rights until they had achieved the kind of state they desired.
Remember that any potential application of a technology will eventually find its way into0 applied use - whether the use was i8ntented nor not by the technology's designers. Also remember that government, in particular the covert agencies tend to attract individuals with a "control" mentality who have a strong drive to exert power over others, generally to foster conformity with their personsl world view and/or morality.
One last parting thought - think about this sort of thing in the context of the IRS if you really believe that you don't mind the government having access to all the details of your life.

Score: 0

By UnstAblE

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 7:09 AM

Dude I don´t care if the whole world is watching me s***! I say that no government in it´s right mind would try to controll it´s people... Even if they had a camera in every house, what the hell are they goning to do with the information?

Score: 0

By zenarcher

edited Oct 19, 2005 - 7:25 AM

**I say that no government in it´s right mind would try to controll it´s people...**

You really have piqued my curiosity. Obviously, you've never read a history book, nor taken a history class in school. What planet are you from?

You should ask mom and dad to ease up with "Net Nanny" so you can surf some history websites.

Score: 0

By rijp

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 9:44 AM

Umm.. I would have to disagres with you, and agree with the other guy. What would they do with all that info? And its not just the government, you have cameras all the time watching you, traffic lights, walmart, parking lots, its ONLY when people find out they exist and where they are do people get upset. They don't even need cameras mounted anywhere to watch, ever heard of Satellite? They can see a credit card from space, and that was 30 years go.. what do you think they have now?

As far as them watching, don't mistake watching with action. Because a camera in space SEES all doesn't mean the people monitoring the footage can DO something WITH this information.

So what they have your printer ID, your IP address, and its being sent to Tivo for your viewing habits? So what? What do you REALLY think they will do with it? They filter it, get what they need and move on, that's what..

So just calm your a** down.

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 9:51 AM

If you reread my post, I was commenting on this statement..."**I say that no government in it´s right mind would try to controll it´s people...**." I was not referring to Wal-Mart parking lot cameras, nor what happens with gathered information. To say that "no government in it's right mind would try to controll(sic) it's people," is idiotic. It's happened repeatedly throughout history. It was not that long ago when disclosure showed the Denver Police Department had been gathering intelligence and dossiers on numerous community activists, having nothing to do with illegal activity. You are correct....a lot of information is gathered from many sources, beyond our control. I just don't condone adding even more.

Score: 0

By zenarcher

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 6:30 AM

Very well stated. History shows that it is a very small step from "power" to "abuse of power." There are probably not a handful of people here, who are laughing, old enough to remember the days of "Tailgunner" Joe McCarthy here in the U.S. Even ten years ago, secret detentions, without access to the courts or charges being filed would have been laughable. But, these conditions exist today. The same with "no-fly lists," often with "mistakes" due to similar or common names. A list so secret, the accused has little recourse, since they cannot find out if they are on the list, nor why. Of course, it only applies to suspected "terrorists," until you're on the list by mistake. Ten years from now, free speech could fall into the same category.

Score: 0

By seier

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:44 AM

I'm not at all surprised about this. It's a little creepy, but frankly it's no threat to me today. Though I can see I will need an impact printer if I want aninimity in my documents :). If you didn't know already printers and graphics programs won't print US dollar bills to scale!
Cheers,
Christian

Score: 0

By GeorgeSantayana

edited Oct 19, 2005 - 3:16 AM

I've known it for years.

I only compose my ransom notes with clippings of magazine-print letters and Elmer's glue.

PS

If our data is going to be mined, we might as well have fun with the miners. For instance, when shopping at, say, Amazon, buy Chicken Soup for the Soul, a guide to passing the Civil Service exam and a Husqvarna chainsaw.

(Doing my part to screw with statistical analysis)

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:07 AM

LOL! That is some kind of good funny!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:12 PM

Sweet. I'll have to try that.

"Others who have purchased this book have also purchased:

Rubber Chickens.
Super-Glue
Indelible Dye (Blue)
Nair(tm)"

Oh, imagine the possibilities.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:36 AM

LOL

Score: 0

By horsecharles

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 1:20 AM

I always felt something like this existed, besides the known phone monitoring-- you can easily verify it by calling anyone you wish long distance & tell them you plan on assasinating Bush, blowing up a post office & hijacking an airplane... you will promptly receive a visit from several men dressed in cheap suits.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:58 AM

No-one showed up. Now my grandma thinks I'm gonna kill GB.

Thanks a lot, you insensitive clod!

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:09 AM

Can Will Smith be in this group of several men in cheap suits?

Score: 0

By Trgiaol

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 11:47 PM

oh noes, big brother is gonna find out what printer I've been using to print my pronography

Score: 0

By creeves

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 10:15 PM

There are levels of this that most people cannot even conceptualize. I have a family member that retired from the navy and was involved with similar technology - domestic and abroad. A printer can be manufactured in many ways and still have an Epson or HP label on it! It can be coded, specifically shipped after flags are thrown on manufacturer shipping monitors, and traced through it's distribution line to the building it is sitting in. These printers are YEARS old!! People laugh at this because it's certainly laughable to civilian thinking but I assure you, this printer coding is nothing comapred to what our high level military are doing on a daily basis. The same technology is active in digital cameras, scanners, and copy machines. The declassified material from some of this type of technology alone would blow your mind so bad. You have to understand, this is the govt's. job - there are thousands of experts in areas of "security" technology that hasn't even been declassified yet. The govt. has been making typical household and commercial electronic products with covert functionality for more than 30 years. I know and I can still hardly understand how well it has been protected.

Score: 0

By seefhoek

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 8:45 PM

Is / Was it than possible to send a virus ( troy or worm ) allong with any form, printed with those lasers ?

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 9:03 PM

ummm... a paper virus?

Score: 0

By fourte3n

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 8:27 PM

lol.... who really cares? dont print fakes notes and your AOK!

and for the rest of the paranoia.. does anyone believe that there are computers set aside to track your GPS, Mobile, internet traffic movements? they will only track you if you give them a reason!

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 18, 2005 - 8:48 PM

lol right. They do sometimes gather information for statistics (like what browser you use...FF has 9.8 or whatever odd market share and IE has 89 or so...what, you think they call those people? They "invade their privacy" to determine the web browser using third party cookies or whatever), but the information isnt tracked to you individually. If it is it could be an invasion of privacy I suppose. Back to the article, I hardley think that microscopic yellow dots on a peice of tree bark are something to worry about. Remeber all paper now has invisible indicaters of what brand name it is on the paper too. I don't hear about any protests from any paper mill workers yet...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 5:57 PM

roflmao...

Seriously, this is just *way* to damn funny. Do you guys honestly think...

Oh forget it... You won't hear me through your tinfoil hats.

Seen any aliens lately? MIB been searching your house while your away? How many times have *you* been probed?

lmao.

I can't believe this is being taken seriously. It's time/date and printer info.... "ooh...scary..."

lol. Too funny. Ed, *please* post more of this stuff. These guys crack me up.

Score: 0

By TheBeastH6

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 10:50 AM

Tinfoil hats. =D

While you roll on the floor laughing your a** off and laughing your a** off a second time (followed by audible laughter), I'll take this seriously if indeed the government even knew I existed.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 6:31 PM

lol. Yeah. I especially love the last quote: "The logical next question is: what other deals have been or are being made to ensure that our technology rats on us?"

Well, if you aren't doing anything illegal, what's the big deal? Does the government really care how many paper airplane designs your kid printed out?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:08 PM

Holy christ! My kid printed off like 10 of those yesterday. You spying on me through my printer??

Huh??

Huh??

Your silence proves it, you ... you ... spy-type-person!

:P

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 3:13 PM

ROFL

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Oct 18, 2005 - 5:45 PM

Guys, think about what they can already do. I have no proof, and no one suggested this, but yet I still *know* that every car with a GPS is tracked, as data is also sent to the satelite as well as transmitted from. Every secure web page where I buy PC hardware seems to have tracking cookies from doubleclick.net or hitbox.com, every cell phone can easily be tracked by the government, etc. Invasion of privacy? C'mon people, if it's not one thing it's another. Besides, God's invading your privacy 24/7.

Score: 0

By nightops

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:47 AM

LOL...why do you think OnStar is becoming global across ALL car companies? :-)

Score: 0

By drumcat

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 10:31 PM

You assume God exists.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Oct 19, 2005 - 2:29 AM

Yup. It looks like he did. Your point?

Maybe God assumes you exist. o_O

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:12 AM

But what if I assume that God knew that I knew that he knew that I knew I existed?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 20, 2005 - 9:59 AM

must....keep...head....from....exploding...

*BOOM*

you bas7ard!

Score: 0

By nightops

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:46 AM

nice note ;-)

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 6:35 PM

Not to mention that ALL of your online activity is logged in triplicate. I work for an ISP. You'd be amazed at what I can find out about our customers =). But, there's a thing called a privacy policy which means I can't use the information in any way, shape, or form, which I don't. Doing so would mean my job.

Score: 0

By deadmonkey

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 7:19 PM

Doing so would mean your freedom. You would go to prison if you broke the data protection act here in the UK.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 8:30 PM

That too. *IF* the offense was severe enough, one could get locked up for a long time.

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 8:05 AM

Even if you discovered one of the users was doing something criminal? Say, supporting terrorists?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Oct 19, 2005 - 3:40 PM

US law regarding user privacy on a network (I believe this applys to both corporate WAN/LAN as well as your ISPs)

http://www.hipaa.org/ - Anything and everything you ever wanted to know about online privacy and more...a LOT more.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 19, 2005 - 11:38 AM

Yes. Only if the information is requested by the authorities do we hand it over.

I'm sure the government already knows anyway...

Score: 0

By drumcat

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 4:43 PM

This is subversive, and an invasion of privacy. Someone at the USSS needs to serve time for this.

Score: 0

By voipdude

edited Oct 18, 2005 - 4:33 PM

The EFF is so often out of touch!! This tech makes it easier to find "dissenters"??? Yeah right - I guess in their reality a counterfeiter is just expressing his right to free speech! ;-)

That's a bunch of crap. Counterfeiters hurt everyone who uses currency and they ought to be stopped.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 6:28 PM

uhhh...

huh?

Score: 0

By cory1492

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 4:03 PM

even eerie-er:
Back in war time when Xerox had been making the first photocopiers, there were cameras inside of many strategically placed machines that took pictures of any documents being copied... since then camera technology has come a loooong way towards micro miniature devices, who's to say what is inside of them now - just remember that if you ever stop at a public photocopy machine (especially if its in a Gov't building).

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 4:19 PM

Well of course they're going to monitor what's being copied inside a Government building. I would expect nothing less actually.

Score: 0

By TheBeastH6

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:57 PM

I'm gonna try this out. -.O

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:51 PM

Aw... and I just printed a load of illegal money too... and now their sayin they can tell that it's illegal?

(PS. I'm just joking :P)

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:54 PM

haha. I think the counterfeiting they're looking for isn't necessarily money. I'm thinking security IDs, passes for whatever... who knows?

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 4:09 PM

Whatever :P. You get my point anyway. I wonder if this occurs else where in the world...

Score: 0

By heat_fan1

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:33 PM

I don't understand how this can help the government find dissenters.

Score: 0

By coolaid

edited Oct 18, 2005 - 5:28 PM

lets say leaked memos turning up ?
they can track which printers out of which office or home was used.
If it's a government building they will know easily who it belongs to.
Many customers get printers with computers and they take your name and address telephone # etc when you purchase it, also when you register warranty info ...
Many other ways one would think...
Expand your mind foo

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:44 PM

Me either really. The "track[ing] counterfeiters" reason seems like it would be more prevalent.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Oct 18, 2005 - 3:31 PM

Lol. That's awesome. I really couldn't care less though if the government knows which school papers I printed out...

**EDIT**
And I just checked. My printer isn't on the list. Too bad =(. That would have been kinda fun to look for the dots.

Score: 0

By arossetti

posted Oct 18, 2005 - 3:30 PM

This is just eerie....

Score: 0