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Google Cries Foul Over IE7 Search Box

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

May 2, 2006, 1:43 PM

Google has raised objections over Microsoft's plans to integrate its new search engine into Internet Explorer 7, press reports indicate. The company's concerns have even led Google to speak with the Justice Department and the European Commission.

Much like Firefox does with Google, the new version of Internet Explorer will be set up by default to send search queries to MSN Search. Google contends that this gives Microsoft an unfair advantage over its competitors.

However, questions have arisen as to whether Google has firm ground to stand on when making these claims. The company holds a commanding -- and growing -- lead in the search market, and is the default search engine for every major browser besides IE, including Safari, Opera and Firefox.

Additionally, according to Nielsen//Net Ratings, MSN handles only 11 percent of all Web searches, compared with Google's 49 percent share.

These embedded search boxes are quite valuable; up to half of users' searches start from them, Google''s statistics claim. Additionally, Google relies on advertising revenues shown to these users, another reason why the Mountain View, Calif., search giant is raising objections.

While no investigation is imminent, it does show a willingness by Google is wary of potential competition from Microsoft. But some analysts see it as a bad move.

"This reminds me a lot of the Netscape complaints in the 90's," JupiterResearch analyst Michael Gartenberg said. "Didn't help Netscape very much back then and actually made them look quite weak."

Gartenberg also pointed out that Microsoft is making concessions to Google. In the builds he tested, upon visiting Google IE offers to change the default settings to use the Google search engine. He did admit that as Microsoft evolves, it would be harder for the company to "co-opt" the browser and Windows desktop.

"More interesting is what's worrying Google, is it that Microsoft's search has crossed the line to be "good enough" or that there's going to be mass adoption of IE 7 and Vista (or both)?" Gartenberg added.

Microsoft said that Google is misreading the company's intentions completely, and enhancements within the new browser focus on the customer rather than boosting revenues. However, both Google and Yahoo have raised concerns over Microsoft's plans.

Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times. Microsoft says such a method would end up being confusing, and would instead allow changes through the browser's control panel.

Additionally, Microsoft points out that its hardware partners would be free to change the settings. This could set off a potential bidding war between Yahoo and Google as they attempt to sign up the most manufacturers upon Vista's release early next year.

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By dr_luj

edited May 7, 2006 - 4:21 AM

Microsoft made Windows and IE, I don't see why they shouldn't use a search engine that will make them money. If it bothers them, why don't Google owners make their own OS and/or software?

Score: 0

By WeArab

edited May 3, 2006 - 2:06 PM

Google is doing what AOL/Netscape was doing before?

Oh come on, make better browser as you did better SE or keep crying like a fool kid!

I don't love msn I don't use it as my default SE, I use google, but this socks me, heh fight well or! ms will kick your @$$ ;)

Score: 0

By daniel_rx

edited May 3, 2006 - 5:44 PM

Here's what you do with IE, any version : you use it ONCE to download Firefox.

You keep it on hand for occasional non-standard sites built by incompetent designers.

Score: 0

By Joe Dirt

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:29 PM

I just switched all of my default searches to MSN and made sure to delete the Google search all together.

Google is the devil.

Their owners are little whiney spoiled kids. It shows in the company daily.

Score: 0

By anmol.2k4

posted May 4, 2006 - 6:40 AM

so true
im also dumping google

Score: 0

By pollix

edited May 3, 2006 - 5:51 AM

Apparently it must be too hard to make your own browser. If Google/Yahoo are so worried about people using their search tools, then they should go out on the edge and build a better browser.

It was NOT difficult to change my default search setting. When I went to google and yahoo.com they both had a huge ad on their website explaining how to change my default search bar setting.

Yeah competition is tough. I'm getting tired of companies complaining about Microsoft. They need to get off there @$$ and start competing for themselves instead of crying to the courts all the time.

GG Google! I've now changed my default search settings back to MSN!

Score: 0

By Grimmy.the.Grim.Reaper

edited May 3, 2006 - 12:34 PM

While I'm never one to rush to the aid of Microsoft (god knows I've got my own share of complaints and criticisms) I don't see what the big deal is really. Microsoft owns both IE and MSN - it's their product they can do what they like with it. Bundle them together, why not? It only makes sense, especially from a business perspective - to not include it would only imply that they were not confident in their own product.

For me a search engine stands on its merits, not what software chooses it by default. The only complaint I would have is if you couldn't change the default search engine to be anything but MSN. But that's a usability issue - I'll just keep on using Firefox if it's that big a deal for me.

People who already are faithful Google users, chances are will continue to be - the name Google alone is almost synonymous with searching.

I agree with comment that this move on Googles part makes them look weak and, dare I say it, afraid.

I can't count how many times a day I use Google, (I would go so far to say as it's almost hardwired into my internet psyche) and, as long as it continues to returns good results, I will continue to use it. If the quality of Google fades, then I will have to seek alternatives. Until then, however, Google is my search engine of choice.

I would caution Google however on its apparent quest to destroy its competition...competition is at the heart of what motivates us as a species to excel. If you remove it you will lose the very thing that has brought you to where you are today.

Microsoft is a shining example of this in my opinion. The world is not dependant on Microsoft now because it is better, but because in many cases it's simply too painful or troublesome to change. What's worse is that this often feels as though it were by design (and quite frankly I'm convinced that it is). Microsoft is dominant because we've essentially been strong-armed into it and now that's what it takes to keep people there. As a programmer and a business owner that's not the image I would want for my company.

Just my opinion.

Score: 0

By womfalcs7

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:44 PM

Exactly. I use Google exclusively but I think the maker of the software should decide what to do with it and who to include.

Score: 0

By Randall_Lind

posted May 3, 2006 - 12:07 PM

Open IE 7 Beta 2 and go to Google and it will tell you to download FireFox with the Google toolbar. ROFL

So why is Google upset? They are telling people to use Firefox so why should MS make Google the defualt engine?

Score: 0

By asellus

posted May 4, 2006 - 5:24 AM

I load Google.com here and the switch ad did not appear.

Score: 0

By Realist

edited May 3, 2006 - 11:59 AM

All this nonesense about default search. Every time I go to visit my 78 year old mother and I take a look at her browser there is either the Google toolbar, Yahoo toolbar, or some other such contrivance installed on her browser. She just surfs the net and the tool bars magically appear.

Google needs to quit the b****ing and accept the fact that Microsoft has every right to set defaults in IE. It's so easy to choose which search engine you want to use or intall it's pathetic that they are complaining.

Seems the cycle of evil greed has infected Google much faster than anyone could have predicted. In a few more years people will despise Google more than any other computer related company, and Bill Gates will be known primarily as the world's greatest and most generous philanthropist.

Score: 0

By JovialJooles

edited Oct 6, 2006 - 5:42 AM

I couldn't agree more with Realist.

Score: 0

By rijp

edited May 3, 2006 - 9:02 AM

For those of you that complain about MS, and security, read this. Eat it, swallow it, choke on it. I keep saying, you are purposely targeting MS, but here is one company that updates security patches REGULARLY.

Testing problems are forcing some Oracle users to wait a little longer than usual for the company's latest round of security patches, the first of which were released last month.

Though Oracle offered patches for a number of its most popular products as part of its April 18 Critical Patch Update, it had said that updates for many other versions of the products would not become available until May 1. Now, the database vendor is saying that many of those critical updates may not be available until as late as May 15.

Oracle typically releases about 150 patches for a variety of different operating systems in its Critical Patch Updates, which ship every three months.

The problem with the April update is that some of the patches have not yet passed the comprehensive suites of tests that Oracle uses to ensure that they will not disrupt customer's applications, said Darius Wiles, manager of Oracle Security Alerts.

"There were some [updates] that failed out of the test suite, so we needed some more time to test them," Wiles said.

Oracle is particularly eager to complete testing and release updates for some of the more widely used versions of its database, including version 8.1.7.4 and 10.1.0.4. But the company first needs to ensure that the new software will not disrupt customers, Wiles said.

Oracle users can find more information on the estimated delivery date of Oracle's patches by checking the pre-installation notes Oracle has published for each of its products. These can be found on Oracle's MetaLink online support service by searching for document: 360464.1

Security researcher and Oracle critic David Litchfield believes that by waiting so long to update some versions of its products, Oracle is undermining the value of its regular patch release cycle, which is designed to provide customers with regular, predictable software updates.

In an interview, Litchfield criticized both the lateness of the updates and their quality.

"The whole point of a regular patch cycle is that people can plan ahead and install once," said Litchfield, managing director of Next Generation Security Software, in Sutton, England. "But if you are having to install it nine times, where's the benefit of that?"

Litchfield estimates that two-thirds of Oracle's supported products are now unpatched, leaving many users vulnerable.

But Wiles countered that the problem appears to be worse than it is. Because updates for some applications, such as Oracle's application server, are dependent on the database fixes, there has been a bottleneck effect with the updates. "Once we get the database stuff cleared, there are going to be a whole bunch of products that are going to be patched."

Though some security researchers such as Litchfield are critical of Oracle's delays, most customers prefer that the software vendor deliver a tested and reliable product, said David Kennedy, a senior risk analyst with Cybertrust, in Herndon, Virginia. "I'm sympathetic with Oracle," he said. "They get barbecued for not coming up with patches fast enough."

http://www.infoworld.com...acleaprilpatches_1.html

Score: 0

By rcsteiner

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:34 AM

They may be good at patching, and that is responsible behavior after the fact, but it would be a lot better if Microsoft were better at doing up-front design work in the first place so the clouds of post-release patches weren't necessary.

Windows is a complex architecture by design, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:11 AM

Ahhhh, what the hell does this have to do with Google complaining about IE7 using MSN as the default search engine?

Thanks for the off topic rant.

Score: 0

By chaz01

edited May 3, 2006 - 7:20 AM

This sort of whiny guff is typical of a lack of competitive spirit and implementation in the operating system, media player and search engine markets. If I want to use Google by default, I simply only have to make the appropriate change in my browser's preference section.

I use Opera most often because it has a zoom capability no other browser has, and a built in RSS reader, too. The choice is available for those who want to make it, and requires no intervention from the law, or government to make it so, for any of us.

Google would do better by applying its financial and marketing muscle to a complete operating system based on Solaris/BSD/Linux so that they have the control they seek.

Score: 0

By Floske Tuf

posted May 3, 2006 - 3:31 AM

I installed IE7 beta 2 a couple of days ago.
It was easy to add Google & Yahoo as well as other search engines, which I did. And I set Google by default because I have been using Google already all the time.

Their whining made me change my mind however.
MSN-serch is now my default and I wiped Google completeley (it's not even amongst my choises anymore).
They have been too childish this time - sorry !

Score: 0

By spef

posted May 3, 2006 - 4:04 AM

It may be easy for us how to change this but that's why we're all on a tech forum. Studies have shown that 60% of people who surf on the internet do't know how to or don't even know it's possible.
And it may be very easy on the beta IE to change this but it has to be same for the final release. Google is putting the pressure up know so there won't be a 18-month lawsuit when the final IE arrives. These 18 months (just a guess btw) can be enough for MS to profit from there bundled copy of Vista with IE and MSN search.

For downloaded copies of IE from the internet I don't have problems with. People who know how to change or upgrade their browser sure know how to change the default search engine.

Score: 0

By Joe Dirt

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:25 PM

If 60% of people can't change the default search in their browser then those 60% need to stop using computers and leave it to us geeks like it used to be.

Freaking idiot morons.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 11:18 AM

"It may be easy for us how to change this but that's why we're all on a tech forum. Studies have shown that 60% of people who surf on the internet do't know how to or don't even know it's possible."

This little statistic has *nothing* to do with IE7.

Right now, it's prominently displayed on the first page loaded by the browser.

Right now, there is no learning curve.

Right now, it's right.

Anything else is just speculation.

Score: 0

By spef

posted May 4, 2006 - 4:31 AM

If Google makes a fuss about it now and MS doesn't change it in the final release it'll stay speculation.
Otherwise there might be another lawsuit that nobody is gonna profit from.
If these concerns pit out by Google have led to this in the future than everything is right now. Better to prevent the problem now than find a cure for it later.

Score: 0

By Digital_Dave

edited May 3, 2006 - 2:29 AM

Love it , Keep it going . Screw Gate's + IE 7beta 2 ! Can't even STEAL Firefox Right !

Score: 0

By viktitious

edited May 3, 2006 - 2:18 AM

It's funny that Google caved in to one of the most oppressive countries on the planet (China) a couple of months ago when China wanted Google searches to be censored within that country.

Now Google is crying because a competitor is trying to get a larger piece of the Search Pie.

Pathetic.

Score: 0

By anmol.2k4

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:41 AM

what a devilish company !
an American against an American in EU.
im starting to dislike google for their whining.
if they can use their dominance in search engine to make people use firefox with a google tool bar and a google as a default search engine then there is absolutely nothing wrong if Microsoft makes live as the default search engine.
There is no point in raising point of discrimination when google is discriminatory toward Microsoft, but what i dislike most is the fact that how un-american they have become they should not have gone to EU.

Im checking out other engines on day to day basis, because i feel that Dominance is bad in almost any case.

Still, google is my default search engine, but there is a possibility that i might change that in future.

Score: 0

By FataL

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:19 AM

I checked recently all major search engines and surprisingly _only_ MSN search HTML is 100% valid and also very semantic.

Score: 0

By anmol.2k4

posted May 3, 2006 - 2:35 AM

what is the point ?

Score: 0

By FataL

posted May 3, 2006 - 11:30 AM

The point was M$ sometimes can do not evil things too. ;)

Score: 0

By damndj

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:31 AM

Whatever, Google. Firefox has Google as its default page, but you don't see M$ whining about it.

Be happy that M$ even allows its users to select a different engine, including yours.

Google has no reason to cry.

Score: 0

By Frostek

edited May 3, 2006 - 6:01 PM

Google has to *pay* Mozilla to have Firefox set it as a default.

The point is, is this another case of Microsoft using one monopoly to leverage control in another area?

On the other hand, I'm not sure what they *could* set the default too. Perhaps they could have a list of the top 5 and ask the user to make a choice?

Score: 0

By FataL

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:09 AM

Opera actually had a poll: "Which search engine would you prefer as a default search field in the Opera browser?". http://my.opera.com/community/index.dml?prev=27
Here are some results:
Google (9402 votes, 78%)
Yahoo (1301 votes, 11%)
MSN (368 votes, 3%)

Score: 0

By FataL

edited May 3, 2006 - 2:06 AM

And one more poll from Opera Community - back to year 2003 I think... http://my.opera.com/community/index.dml?prev=83
Google (1726 votes, 78%)
Yahoo (202 votes, 9%)
AlltheWeb (129 votes, 6%)
AltaVista (75 votes, 3%)
Pretty interesting... magic 78% :D

Score: 0

By Esquire

edited May 3, 2006 - 12:17 AM

My thoughts exactly. Is there a point to this complaint since IE7 can be configured to default to Google as a search engine?

Score: 0

By Obmulap

edited May 2, 2006 - 4:16 PM

You know I've been running IE7 for about a week now and the first thing that I noticed was a box that popped up when I went to Google. The box basically allowed me to make Google the default search engine simply by clicking "Yes". I don't see why they are crying about it, atleast Microsoft coded in that option.

Score: 0

By Tokar

posted May 2, 2006 - 10:32 PM

Did you happen to see the ad for Google here on Betanews?

"Fact: You can earn more money when people use the Google search box on your site."

I didnt know that Google searching needed such advertising.

Score: 0

By M.Sweazey

posted May 2, 2006 - 10:17 PM

Unfortunately, such seems to reflect the current state of business as practiced by too many of the dominant companies, MS & Google included...

Personally, I would enjoy and appreciate being able to have the choice and to configure the default search engine of my choice. And such functionality Would increase my likihood of using the product.

However, I also believe that each company should be free to define the functionality and feature mix of their own products. And if their strategic planning leads them to believe that a more limited choice of functionality will benefit them, that is their decision.

And if that decision on the part of a manufacturer does not suit my needs or desires, then I am free to change to another program that suits my desires more adequately.

As long as this choice exists, then I have no problem with their decisions, however enlightened or ignorant they may be on the part of the manufacturers.

What is a bit humorous and sad to observe, however, is how each company seeks to achieve a strategic advantage via market control and limiting customer choice when they see it as favoring their position, and then how they run to the courts whining about the same practices of others when it adversely affects them! Seems like a simple case whereby one should be content to play by the same rules that they initially set forth. And to this degree, both MS and Google (and far too many others!) fall woefully short.

Score: 0

By Joe Dirt

edited May 2, 2006 - 9:37 PM

Again, Google is the devil.

What a poor little moron whiny company they have become.

Cry cry cry...grow up.

"Much like Firefox does with Google, the new version of Internet Explorer will be set up by default to send search queries to MSN Search. Google contends that this gives Microsoft an unfair advantage over its competitors."

-No kidding huh? It's their browser. Why would they not make their own search a default? At least they didn't exclude Google. Now they should!

F___ Google!

Score: 0

By Hellcat_M

posted May 2, 2006 - 9:17 PM

I think this is pretty sad. I hear Google is going to make their own browser and who do you think they're going to put as their default seach...MSN?, YAHOO?...no Google. So if the court says MS can't make MSN their default search on IE (which I doubt will happen) then when Google comes out with their new broswer, they should complain that Google should make their default search MSN.

This whole thing is just pathetic...grow up Google!

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 2, 2006 - 9:36 PM

I guess you didn't read the article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times."

Score: 0

By Hellcat_M

posted May 3, 2006 - 1:30 PM

I read that, but you know if/when Google makes its own browser it still going to make Google its top search. Any browser maker would do that if they have a search. AOL browser does it, IE does it you'd be stupid no to.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 7:58 AM

says nothing about google's own browser.....

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:45 AM

What google browser?

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:14 AM

a rumor

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:44 AM

Nah...

Never happen. They'll continue to fund Firefox. Why burden themselves with support and other concerns. This way, they can steer development and stay out of the limelight if it fails/gets bad press.

Score: 0

By PlanoJAW

edited May 2, 2006 - 7:39 PM

Poor, poor Google. It sounds like their days are numbered and they want to blame their failure on someone other than themselves. They definately need some cheese to go with all of their whining!

Score: 0

By Frostek

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:04 PM

Yeah, I'm sure their days are numbered. I'll probably click on my Google bookmark tomorrow and it won't work.

Hah.

The only way MSN could beat Google is by cheating or putting a hell of a lot of research / marketting money into it.

Score: 0

By Tokar

posted May 2, 2006 - 8:32 PM

Looks like someone is a little scared... :O

Score: 0

By TanNg

edited May 2, 2006 - 8:24 PM

http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/
Jeremy Zawodny wrote
==============================
Marissa Mayer of Google said:

"The market favors open choice for search, and companies should compete for users based on the quality of their search services," said Marissa Mayer, the vice president for search products at Google. "We don't think it's right for Microsoft to just set the default to MSN. We believe users should choose."

BUT

Google has been pushing their toolbar for Internet Explorer very aggressively ever since information about Internet Explorer 7 was first available several months ago. The writing was on the wall and they could see it as well as anyone.

If Google actually cared about user choice, they'd have asked the Mozilla Foundation to configure Firefox to prompt you to choose your favorite search engine the first time you ran it. You know, a level playing field.

Did they do that?

No!

Instead they bought their way into the default position with a revenue sharing deal. And now they're upset because they can't do the same with Internet Explorer. Well, they can but they're gonna have to pay OEMs like Dell, Gateway, HP, and so on. That's a lot of deal making and a lot more money that'll hit their earnings in the form of TAC (Traffic Acquisition Costs).

Score: 0

By fewt

posted May 2, 2006 - 8:36 PM

I guess you didn't read the article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times."

Score: 0

By srdiamond

edited May 2, 2006 - 10:23 PM

Here's a big gap in the article. What in the world might it mean to be "apparently" ready to remove appearances of a double standard by pushing for search choice "if need be." The comment is either unintelligible or a confession to the worst hypocrisy. It would have been nice had the interviewer tried to clear that up. Google seems to be saying that if it absolutely must to preserve its image, it intends to go so far as to advocate search neutrality when it is the preferred engine. That it will not assert a principle except under dire need confesses that it is not really true to its principles, that is, confesses the double standard it tries to distance itself from.

While one hesitates to impose this uncharitable interpretation on nonsense, certainly it is over-charitable to interpret this statement as actually supporting search neutrality.

Score: 0

By TanNg

posted May 2, 2006 - 8:25 PM

Clearly Google fight for money not user choice as they said in their complains.

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:16 AM

complaints with a t

Score: 0

By micjustmic

edited May 2, 2006 - 8:08 PM

I find all these arguements interesting.
I also find that having the government dictate to any company what they can and can't include with their products insane.
It's MICROSOFT's browser, should they have the default search set to Netscape?
And those that comment about Microsoft including IE with Windows, would you rather they didn't?
No browser at all in Windows means NO web access at all unless you have a disk with a browser on it . . . and how many average users know how to use FTP to download files? Oh wait, I forgot, Windows uses IE as it's built in FTP client, so you're still stuck . . .
Yes, they package their products with Windows (think about it though, most of the products that come with Windows are pretty limited.) and set the default home page and search to MSN. It makes perfect sense.
I use Ubuntu Linux and when you open either of the browsers in Ubuntu it defaults to the Ubuntu welcome page. Should I be complaining about that since I prefer to use Google for my home page?
I can't understand where Google is coming from with this, and I can't understand people that are saying, "Yeah, Google is right!"
Is there ANY logic to saying, "It's wrong for Microsoft to set the default to MSN search?"
If you don't like the defaults for just about ANY decent software, it's usually not too difficult to change it, so just change it. And if Google is so worried about new users not knowing how to change it, well, if that person knows enough to type, "www.google.com" there's a pop-up that tells them how, or if they click the down arrow next to the search button, again, there it is, "Google" and another choice to change the default, add more search engines, so forth . . .
This seems to me to be a case of, "Any press is good press." Microsoft is seen by so many as this corporate monster to be hated and feared, you could say just about any idiotic thing againts Microsoft and you'll have all the Microsoft bashers saying, "YEAH YEAH! Microsoft SHOULD make Windows run OS-2/Warp programs! Why can't it now? Damned Microsoft, screwing us all the time I can't use any of my OS-2 programs with it . . ."
I think you see my point.
Mic

Score: 0

By cookiesnsession

edited May 2, 2006 - 7:47 PM

whats the prob.. with the google?? its just a browser.. people choose what they want and like.. there is always a option or a choice. isnt it?? if your default search engine is not ur choice then change it.. duh.. you dont like your browser then change it.. duh.. its just a matter of choice :-) people are not the dumb or idiot.. ;-)

Score: 0

By srdiamond

posted May 2, 2006 - 11:06 PM

In fairness, what's listed as the default browser can probably make a huge difference. And if you say 'It's Microsoft's browser and they can do what they want with it,' ignores the tie-in to the operating system and states a principle that if followed consistently would require scuttling all anti-trust law.

What makes Google's cry pathetic is that in the area in question, Google is the monopolist, not Microsoft. Microsoft has the right to be proud that it has never resorted to these tactics, even when it is the underdog.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:47 AM

"scuttling all anti-trust law."

First good idea I've heard all day. :)

At the very least, it needs to be greatly reformed if bundling is still considered an abuse.

Score: 0

By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:04 AM

or maybe we should question the fairness of telling microsoft what to do with it's own products. isnt interoperability technically just a perk provided by ms? maybe we should ask why it is legal for us to dictate what someone makes. why does microsoft have to make windows fair to other companies and work with other programs when apple doesnt have to make ipods work with other compainess drm? dont you think that is a little one sided and unfair?

Score: 0

By Couscous

posted May 2, 2006 - 7:08 PM

What a horrible, one sided story.

Shame on you BetaNews.

Score: 0

By slepax

posted May 2, 2006 - 9:40 PM

Maybe you can enlighten us?

Score: 0

By Kwai-lin

edited May 2, 2006 - 3:32 PM

Wah-wah-wah!! Google, stop whining!!

Score: 0

By spiked

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:54 PM

Let's make sure we're basing our opinions on precise facts instead of what we vaguely recall. To review, here is the verified behavior of Firefox 1.5.0.2 and IE 7.0.5346.5 (Beta 2) on Windows XP:

A fresh install of Firefox defaults to Google, no questions asked. A fresh install of IE7 defaults to MSN, no questions asked. This applies to BOTH the default search engine/provider and the default home page, unless Microsoft's free IEAK tool has been used to create a custom package for installation, or unless Microsoft's Group Policy feature of Active Directory has been used to override defaults within an organization's network. As open source, Firefox permits users to create custom installations, and some commercial products for network policy management have added Firefox support, but no canned tools similar to IEAK are available yet.

The page which is displayed automatically upon first launch of IE7 does NOT include instructions for changing the default search provider. The first launch page does include instructions for certain options but search provider is not one of them. To see those instructions, you must scroll to the bottom, click "Save your settings" followed by "Take a quick tour..." From there, you can either click directly on the Search tab to see the instructions, or you can go through the tour, in which case it will take 4 clicks to arrive at the Search portion.

The first launch page for Firefox DOES include instructions for adding search engines, but the featured examples do not include MSN. Specifically, they are: Food Network, IMDB, Wikipedia, and Yahooligans.

It requires a total of 4 clicks to add MSN to the list of search engines in Firefox and set it as default. It requires a total of 5 clicks to add Google to the list of search engines in IE7 and set it as default. (Note that I count a click as each press of any mouse button, so choosing an item from a drop-down list is 2 clicks to me, rather than 1 as some news reports are counting. Although there are multiple ways to access these options in both browsers, I am counting the minimum number of clicks required immediately after a normal launch of a default install.)

The IE7 user interface also allows you to remove MSN from the list, in 5 total clicks. Firefox does not currently have any method for removing a search engine via the Firefox user interface; users must find the searchplugins folder under their Firefox profiles and delete 2 files. For "average" end-users, this makes it virtually impossible to remove Google if they wish.

The search box in IE7 cannot be turned off. The one in Firefox can.

When users encounter Flash in Firefox for the first time, the default installation of Flash Player does not affect search in any way. When users encounter Flash in IE7 for the first time, the default installation of Flash Player will also install Yahoo Toolbar. Currently, this does not change the default home page nor the default search provider for IE7 but does add an additional Yahoo search box in the toolbar area of the browser. Also, when IE7 first visits yahoo.com, the site already detects it and displays, "Did you know? You can quickly search with Yahoo! right from the new search box in your browser." Clicking the large orange button labelled "Choose Yahoo" will add Yahoo to IE7's search providers and set it as default.

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By rocmi777

posted May 21, 2006 - 3:47 PM

Google's IE7 Browser Complaint

Find more providers...

The issue is a search box built into the new ie7 browser, which enables users to search without opening a search engine directly in the browser. The function is already available as a plug-in for existing browsers. For instance, the Google toolbar will modify Firefox browsers to enable Google to be accessed in a single click.Ability to change the search providers default setting could create another wars, with ie7 search providers working on partnerships with the Dells and HPs to convince them to ship machines with the search box set to their site. IE7 users can easily add or remove providers from http://ieproviders.com/ or http://www.microsoft.com...hguide/default_new.mspx.

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By ker7099

posted May 2, 2006 - 7:50 PM

"Firefox does not currently have any method for removing a search engine via the Firefox user interface"

There is an extension that you can use that is called SearchPluginHacks to remove search engines. I found the link on the same page where you pick search plugins.

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By slepax

posted May 2, 2006 - 9:42 PM

Just the name of the extension reveals it's not a standard procdure...

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By PC_Tool

posted May 3, 2006 - 10:48 AM

lmao.,..

The fact that it's an extension reveals that, dude.

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By Frostek

posted May 3, 2006 - 6:06 PM

Yes, but Google have to *pay* the Mozilla Corp to put Google as default.

They don't do it for free, you know!

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By fewt

edited May 2, 2006 - 7:31 PM

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera if need be, a representative told the New York Times. Microsoft says such a method would end up being confusing, and would instead allow changes through the browser's control panel."

Google offers a amicable solution and Microsoft doesn't like it because they wouldn't own the search market with it.

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By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:08 AM

all fine and dandy for google to offer that when they will keep their dominant market share. they only offer that option cause they know it wont really affect their standings.

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By asellus

posted May 2, 2006 - 10:18 PM

Firefox 2 will come out before IE 7 become final, usually next year. I don't think Google wants to do it.

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By iamtux

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:43 PM

Why Google? Why? I thought you guys were better than that... :(

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By PC_Tool

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:36 PM

OT:

Firefox 1.5.0.3 is out. Restart your browsers. ;)

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By rawd

edited May 2, 2006 - 6:03 PM

Oh, for the love of God ...

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By johnguilbert

edited May 2, 2006 - 5:58 PM

Who really cares?

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By gkar

edited May 2, 2006 - 5:55 PM

After hearing Google whining and running to the EU and the US Gov I set my default search engine to Yahoo in Firefox till I find something better. Bunch of crybabies must be running Google now.

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By rijp

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:01 PM

We have a winner! Yahoo, its the best, why can't everyone see that.. -shrugs- Oh well.

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By PC_Tool

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:28 PM

"Yahoo, its the best"

I needed that. Thanks for the laugh, man. ;P

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By rijp

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:30 PM

Just for you.. I was really hoping for another swat.. -sigh-

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By PC_Tool

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:34 PM

No, they get progressively worse with each iteration. The next one is a *thwack*.

...but you gotta earn that one.

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By dvferret

posted May 2, 2006 - 7:45 PM

Yah, i hadent really liked yahoo in the past, but am beginning to like it because they dont go around crying all day :)

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By NikonElite

posted May 2, 2006 - 5:31 PM

What are they moaning at...as with every1 else when i used IE7 and visited the google page...a pop up came to make my default search google....

which i thought was quite good coming from Microsoft.

they're just being petty

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By dougthor42

edited May 2, 2006 - 5:19 PM

I dont know why Google is whining either... because when I loaded up IE7 beta, the embedded search box defaulted to Google (AND it was the only one there. no yahoo, msn, etc).

Perhaps its because my homepage was Google? I dont know. All I know is that:
1) Google is the best thing to happen to the internet
2) IE7 either already took care of the issue with the latest beta or Google is making stuff up (bad Google... no soup for you!)
3) If you don't like the fact that the embedded search box isn't Google, and you don't know how to change it, then you have no right to be using Google in the first place. (it's a joke, simma down :-P)

And lastly, anyone who doesn't like Google hasnt experienced the awesomeness that Google is.

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By rijp

edited May 2, 2006 - 5:34 PM

This only works, because your previous settings were on google, it upgrades not installs a new version, so that's not a fair test.

Build a machine from blank, install XP, then intsll IE 7, you will find it defaults to MSN.

*And lastly, anyone who doesn't like Google hasnt experienced the awesomeness that Google is.*

I experienced it, I don't like. I formed an opinion and I prefer Yahoo. Google is good for some, but its not the be all end all of search engines...

Now there was one, called infoseek, now THAT was a search engine...

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By Silentmaster101

posted May 3, 2006 - 8:11 AM

yea or when the great meta search engines were around and still fast... meta crawler, dogpile, etc.

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By 4421

posted May 2, 2006 - 5:16 PM

Competition is not bad.

It shows that Google needs to invest some money into firefox development.

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By Percy Fox

edited May 2, 2006 - 4:57 PM

My problem with IE7 and its embedded search box is that there doesn't seem to be a way to remove it from the toolbar. Other elements (menus, link bar, icon buttons) can all be disabled by users but the search box can't be removed from the toolbar. I don't want one at all.

(I didn't find it very difficult to make Google the default search engine in IE7 but by losing the Google toolbar you lose its other functions such as highlight.)

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By rijp

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:03 PM

This too is a perk, not a nuisance.. why wouldn't you want the integrated search? Firefox has it, Netscape has it, Opera has it, so what's the problem? Its a SEARCH! why should you have to bring up a web page to search, use the handy shortcut, known as the integrated search.. That was there, because OTHER people requested it..

Why would you want to remove it?

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By Galway

posted May 2, 2006 - 4:29 PM

browser and default search settings, its getting like a school yard tiff between whos got the best trainers and which que to the tuck shop is the quickest. WHO CARES !! The only people this effects are the noobs who dont change anything and still think IE is the only browser to use.

I know its all about advertising and marketing to as much as the population as posible, but really this is getting too much. Until there is a law to say no browser is fitted as standard, and even when you do install one there is no default search or home page, these squables over VIRGIN users who except what there given is never going to go away, and to be frank its all just silly.

I wonder if google would like a law to say that once you achieve over 15% market share then the option to even have a choise of google in favour of the other lesser known search engines to protect them whould be appealing.

I have no problem which google, i use it every day, but this kind of PR from such a big influence to me gives google a negative image. Id rather google want me to use then than force me to use it, and just because IE uses MSN and firefox uses google as standard does not give them the right to play politics with other companys products.

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By zridling

edited May 2, 2006 - 4:07 PM

As others have noted, what's the big deal? Google's preferred (and sponsored) browser is Firefox, which defaults to Google search. No problem there, and it's easy to change. In IE7, it only takes one click — one click! — to make Google the default search engine. Yet in Firefox, MSN is not even among the listed search engine alternatives to Google. You have to manually add it.

Still, not a problem. So why is Google carping? Microsoft's not.

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By rijp

posted May 2, 2006 - 4:25 PM

*Yet in Firefox, MSN is not even among the listed search engine alternatives to Google*

Interesting . . . . But does anyone point this out? Other than you of course..

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By PC_Tool

posted May 2, 2006 - 6:26 PM

lmao...

I hadn't even noticed. Funny, that.

I wonder if 2.0 (or 1.5.0.3, which I will install in about 5 minutes) will have it as an option.

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By dvferret

posted May 2, 2006 - 5:45 PM

Its funny how microsoft doesnt seem to mind that msn isnt in the default list on Firefox and Google is on the default list and is the default active search engine for firefox. Yet google is whinning about microsoft having msn as thier default search engine on IE7.

To me, thats just plain out sad. google is just getting plain out rediculous these days. google use to be a good nice little search engine before the company started to be a crybaby and whine.

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By Intrusive_Rogue

edited May 2, 2006 - 4:32 PM

It's Microsofts product, why wouldn't they link it to their web site by default?

Using this logic, that makes it wrong for AOL to use thier keyword search as default, Dell and most other OEM's to brand and change the home page / search page on their products, Yahoo to bundle yahoo companion with YM.

Hey, wait...does that make IE7 Spyware / Adware? lol.

If Google wants to dictate who's search engine is being used in a browser, they should come up with (or finaly release,) their own browser, instead of attempting to partner with every other browser (which I'm sure they called MS to do with IE7, and were refused,) to avoid the R&D / up keep costs of building and maintaining thier own browser.

As long as the Default can be changed by an NOOB and there are no restrictions as to what it can be changed to....who cares.

Does this mean that I can sue Google for determining the order that their results list in? My web page isn't on top by default even though I requested it...lol.

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By dvferret

posted May 2, 2006 - 5:47 PM

Yah, my webpage isnt on top either. I say we go talk to the US Government and the EU Commision about this one. =P lol

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By rijp

edited May 2, 2006 - 6:05 PM

Hahaha.. Ok this was good for a laugh.

What is the link, so I can spam, I mean make it my fav...

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By dvferret

posted May 2, 2006 - 7:47 PM

dont have one, haha lol :p

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By AntiochMedia

posted May 2, 2006 - 3:52 PM

I encourage all who are commenting to fully read this article.

"Google is also apparently ready to remove any appearance of a double standard by pushing for search choice on Firefox and Opera".

For Google, having the largest percentage share to want to work on not having a double standard shows the desire to keep a level playing field and allow quality of the actual service to determine usage -- not tactics like packaging IE with Windows with MSN as the default.

They have a good case.

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By dwaterman

edited May 2, 2006 - 5:02 PM

I don't agree that they have a good case. Microsoft shouldn't be forced to have any search engine but their own as default. Should the gmail notifier check your hotmail by default or even at all? I know that is a stretch, but really... if the user can change the defaults in the preferences whats the big deal?

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By rijp

posted May 2, 2006 - 4:29 PM

OK, this goes waaaaaay back to windows 95. IE was a cheap browser back then, it was a customer requested software to be INCLUDED, because back then, we didn't have broadband, we had 28.8 some 14.4 dial-up, and we didn't want to wait for an hour to download a browser, Netscape complained, and this was thrown out in court back then, and this will be contested now.

I dont' care what value you place on having a product promote your own product, its THEIR PEROGATIVE to do so. There is *NOTHING* illegal or immoral, you are FREE to choose whatever browser you want, no restriction.

Netscape, isn't being prevented from installation, neither is a simple click to use Google as the Default Search engine on IE 7.

so no *They have a good case.* --

They don't.

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By dvferret

posted May 2, 2006 - 5:48 PM

Perfectly said. Microsoft has every right to do that with IE7

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