RSSGreener Gadgets: Are people really saving money with 'green PCs?'
By Jacqueline Emigh | Published March 5, 2009, 3:14 PM
At the Greener Gadgets Expo last week in New York City, executives for Dell and Intel touted a variety of "green" benefits for newer computer processors and laptop screens. But in another session, a product designer took the computer industry for to task for forcing users into frequent and costly replacements of PCs and software, whether for the sake of "green computing" or other reasons.
Processors such as Core 2 Duo that use Core Microarchitecture produce substantial energy savings for customers over the old Pentium 4 CPU, while also reducing carbon footprints, contended Stephen Harper, Intel's director of environment and energy policy.
Remote management software for PCs also benefits the environment, by "allowing me to manage my machine no matter where I'm at," according to Harper.
Michael Murphy, Dell's senior manager of environmental affairs, focused on Dell's move to use LED screens in all of its notebook PCs by 2010. The new screens are 43% more "energy-efficient" than older screens, bringing twice the battery life, according to Murphy.
"Corporations are much more likely to implement [Energy Star]," he told the panel.
But some of the speakers were not convinced that the greener products really result in cost savings for customers. Aaron Dallek, the CTO for Planet Metrics, said that one recent study, conducted in California, actually indicates that customers can save more money by hanging on to older PCs.
The extent to which "green" PCs reduce the carbon footprint isn't exactly clear either, Dallek said. That's because the consumer electronics industry is very complex, with many different suppliers. PC Metrics produces software for calculating software emissions.
"The computer software industry definitely has a lot to answer for," asserted Gadi Amit, founder and principal designer at New Deal Design, speaking later in the day. "Users are a lot more aware there is not a need to update every year."
To some extent, the software industry has been driving the pressures toward buying updated hardware, according to Amit. Software makers such as Adobe keep coming out with new products that increasingly "gobble up" memory and disk space, he elaborated.
But at the same time, today's increasingly "green" regulatory environment is imposing additional expenses on manufacturers, according to Harper. "Our new products are lead-free," he noted.
Intel has already spent "a couple of hundred million dollars" on complying with emerging regulations around lead-free manufacturing. But he also contended that research performed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the University of Tennessee suggests some of the materials being used to replace lead, such as cadmium, might be even more hazardous.
Harper estimated that, as a whole, the computer industry has already spent more than two billion dollars on removing lead from its manufacturing processes.
But for their part, customers aren't always complying with new regulations, anyway, he indicated. Only 11% of US federal agencies are now adhering to the EPEAT standard, which requires agencies to buy energy-efficient, Energy Star-certified PCs, Murphy Harper said.
Harper cited a "culture in IT" toward upgrading every two or three years, in any case. People tend to get tired of "looking at the same old stuff," according to the Intel exec.
Speaking with Betanews during the conference, Harper said that Dell stepped to lead-free manufacturing so as to comply with regulations now adopted in Europe and five US states, including New Jersey and California. The similarity of regulations in Europe and the US, he told us, is making compliance easier for manufacturers.
Today's so called "Green PCs" are nonsense. If they do care about the environment, how come newer PCs produce more heat and have more cooling fans than the older ones? Those "Green PC" stickers are just bussiness tricks.
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|I don't think I would agree that modern PCs are necessarily more power hungry then they were 5-6 years ago. The high end boxes that account for ~5%(10% at most) that have SLI/Crossfire setups, large RAID arrays, with liquid cooling, etc. no doubt use more than the high end builds of the past but that statement doesn't apply to the vast majority of computers.
5 years ago Pentium 4 processors were quite popular both on the desktop and laptop lines. Try finding any modern computer using a processor that utilizes that uses as much power as those processors did. Some of the Pentium 4 laptops had 150 watt power adapters to charge them. Most modern laptops draw less than half that many watts. Some of the cheap netbooks that have been popular recently have 30-40w power adapters and are getting on 6+ hour batter lives on 6 cell batteries.
There has been some progress on the desktop front as well. Most vendors have gone to 80 Plus percentage efficiency on the power supplies to cut back on the wasted energy. Even the Core 2 Quads use less energy then many of the Pentium 4s did and are getting a lot more work done as well. Most modern machines that use integrated graphics and don't have a lot of hard drives stay well below 100w. Tom's Hardware recently built a computer for one of their reviews using a e7200, a Foxconn G31 motherboard, a fairly standard HD and optical drive, and relatively efficent PSU that idled at ~35W and peaked out at less than 50W for the whole box. Good luck finding a 5+ year old box that can do that and still run any real applications.
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|I think the answer is somewhere in between, But in order to actually make sense of the issue, questions need to be better framed.
Components have in large measure become more energy efficient.
But on the other hand, configurations and capabilities have grown.
Much like saying that engines are more efficient as we use them inside a larger model Hummer. As the efficiencies increase, we use more of them to enable larger devices.
So, while CPUs and RAM, etc., are indeed more energy efficient, we now have multiple multicore CPUS and RAM capacities that dwarf capacities common only a few years ago - with accompanying increases in capability (gee, I almost said "productivity"! LOL!), but very possibly at a net greater use of energy.
So yes, component efficiencies have increased; but that does not necessarily translate into a net decrease in energy usage.
...it all depends upon how you frame the question.
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|I ran the figures a few months back, and for upgrading our 3-4 year old HP DC7100's (Pentium IV's with 3-3.16 ghz processors to HP DC7900's with E8400 Core2Duos, the typical power draw would allow for a $55-$70/PC savings per year assuming 8 hours of typical business use 5 days a week.
There are other factors as well: BTUs used for the older desktops were in excess of 210. The newer desktops are about 130. That means less air conditioning overall to cool an office. (then again more to heat it in the winter, our office has horrible insulation.)
That is in the Pacific Northwest, amongst the cheapest region of power in the states. In some parts of Texas, you can easily triple those savings.
Some large LCD's now can draw more power than the computers, something that hasn't happened since the good old CRT days.
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|The irony in all of this is that it is generally equipment such as printers, copiers and other peripherals that are the real current/heat hogs.
Its amazing how much can be saved by simply putting laser printers on switched power strips and turning the 'always on' units on when needed for use. This can show significant returns especially in the home where printers and TVs are put on a strip and the strip turned off when not in use.
Plus the life of the unit(s) is extended.
Its time the 'always on' feature is designed on a timer such that after a reasonable amount of inactivity, the unit is totally powered off (along with a selectable/tempoary user mode to not let the unit cycle during extended jobs where actual use may be a bit delayed).
Basic intelligent design using known and well understood design practices, coupled with intelligent usage (oh!, you mean we should actually be responsible??? Oh no!) stand to yield more substantial returns (in all categories) rather then waiting for some new whiz bang magical technological solution.
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|I don't know about your printer brands, but HP specifically recommends not using power strips/conditioners of any type for Laserjet class printers:
http://h20000.www2.hp.co...2&objectID=bpl07351
Also almost all printers use very little power sitting idle. When you power up a printer via a power strip, the printer must use an enormous amount of power to heat the fuser up for print readiness. The printers use about 13W in sleep mode, otherwise. Think about the process of walking over to a printer, turning on a strip to supply power to it, waiting for it to get ready, making sure the job is queued, getting your job, then powering it off. Is it really worth doing all that to save 13W?
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|agreed 100%. many laser jets take up to a minute to be ready to print after powering on. this is a huge inconvenience in business and schools.
Also, most LJ companies recommend the same avoidance of powerstrips as HP. APC even tells customers to never plug a laser printer into any of their strips or battery backups. these instructions are even included in their multi-thousand dollar rackmount and professional UPS'
you could turn off the power at the printer itself but the power buttons are awkwardly placed because the units are not meant to be routinely power cycled.
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|"tremendous use of power"...
Obviously you do not have a background in electrical engineering or physics.
And "many laser jets take up to a minute to be ready to print after powering on. this is a huge inconvenience in business and schools"
That is because the unit is ALWAYS ON as it is constantly maintaining the charge of the PS's capacitor bank, allowing for a quicker turn on cycle when activated - just like your 'instant on' TVs.
A strip does no more than literally turn OFF current flow to the unit. The delay - your "tremendous use of power", is simply the few moments it takes to initially recharge the capacitors to their operating threshold. And there is NO "tremendous use of power", despite your apparent intimidation by the 'oh so exotic' nature of electricity.
And we aren't even taking issue with the obvious ignorance with just what "power" is, and how it is fundamentally misunderstood and misused in the phase.
Plugging them into a strip does NO HARM, no more than having the unmitigated audacity to unplug the uniot from the AC receptacle! Duh! But it does negate the current draw for the remaining 23 hours a day you don't use it.
"Tremendous power use..."
Before its a Nimrod touting Dell because they have an i7 desktop with SLI and overclocking (as if that's somehow exotic and not a fundamental feature of almost all of the current i7 MoBos), and now we get to learn about "tremendous power use"...
And i love the nonsensical "That is in the Pacific Northwest, amongst the cheapest region of power in the states. In some parts of Texas, you can easily triple those savings."
Sure you can, if your math skills are as deficient as your logic. So electricity costs 3 times more in Texas than in the pacific Northwest? LMAO!
Geesh.
Score: -2
|Out of curiosity, where do you think the power for the capacitors is coming from? The reason it takes so long for them to fill up is because they would otherwise be drawing a "tremendous amount of power."
A device pulling 9 watts for 24 hours is using 0.216 kWh in a day.
Printers are generally sucking up 10 amps during their start. So in watts that is 1,100. Assuming it's pulling this in for 1 minute to start, it uses 0.0183 kWh every time you start it.
You do the rest of the math in your situation. Cutting power to it may save you money in some cases and it may cost you money in other cases. Regardless, if the printer is not going to be used for 12 hours, it should be shut down.
A simple power strip is fine to use with a printer because it is pretty much a switch with multiple outlets. Surge protectors/regulators/UPS will not work with laser printers.
Now I just said all of this in a respectable manner and used no personal attacks and I actually proved my points with math.
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|>>Out of curiosity, where do you think the power for the capacitors is coming from? The reason it takes so long for them to fill up is because they would otherwise be drawing a "tremendous amount of power."
Do you mean, where is the ‘current’ coming from? And ‘watts’ simply indicate how much electrical energy is converted to heat – much like in light bulbs, stereos, and toasters and space heaters. Watts do not indicate the amount of light output, nor how loud your speaker or stereo plays, nor, I guess, how many pages your printer can print! So you might want to review what you are saying and say what you mean and mean what you say. Your reference to “power” and to “watts” is incorrect except to indicate how good of a heater your printer is. But then, for all we know, you may indeed be dependent upon it as a heat source.
>>A device pulling 9 watts for 24 hours is using 0.216 kWh in a day.
Again, “pulling 9 watts”, huh. So it’s a “heat puller” now. Impressive.
>>Printers are generally sucking up 10 amps during their start. So in watts that is 1,100. Assuming it's pulling this in for 1 minute to start, it uses 0.0183 kWh every time you start it.
Nope. The energy (not power´- as I will leave it to you as an academic exercise to Google just what is actually meant by the use of the term “power”) is being applied continuously. Over a period of time, more energy is used in maintaining the charge than is used during a finite charge period. And the full amount is not required each time you turn it on, depending upon the time constant of the capacitance bank. Otherwise, no more net energy is required.
But then, I guess you think you save energy by having an ‘instant on’ TV as opposed to a ‘traditional’ TV requiring a few extra moments to warm up… Boy, are you ripe for the greenies with their emotional ploys as opposed to a life in science.
>>You do the rest of the math in your situation. Cutting power to it may save you money in some cases and it may cost you money in other cases. Regardless, if the printer is not going to be used for 12 hours, it should be shut down.
>>A simple power strip is fine to use with a printer because it is pretty much a switch with multiple outlets. Surge protectors/regulators/UPS will not work with laser printers.
Exactly the point of using a power strip!!!. It is essentially an electrical cord with a switch. In addition, its circuit breaker also provides an additional element of safety in the event the ALWAYS ON power supply should short. It is unsafe to exceed the current capacity rating for an electrical conductor even during an initial startup onrush!!!
And regarding your fear of power strips, the reason they are not recommended is that too many folks think that because there are remaining outlets, that you can simply plug in as many devices as there are outlets - and thus very probably exceed te current rating of the cable and/or circuit!
In other words, the warning is an "idiot warning" aimed at idiot operators! Not something fundamental to 'mystical' printers! LOL! Why do I have the impression that such warnings are not apt to be effective???
So, in the larger picture, considering that we are suggesting a minimum of a 50% cut in online operation (during the night, assumng no one is available to use it), even at idle, there WILL be an energy savings, as was initially suggested.
But then, its rather humorus to listen to you debate the concept of turning off a light when you are not in the room, rather than leaving them on., After all, there is an initial cuurent inrush with a light as well as the filament heats! And you might also note that this is normally when the majority of incandescent bulbs and other devices fail, as this initial heating causes vibration in the filament. But I don't see you using your SAME illogic to suggest that we leave out lights on 24/7 in order to save the initial current inrush! At least I hope not!
Oh...
Your worrying about surge protection is a red herring brought up by the other genius. And yes, BTW, you can use a properly designed surge protection unit such as is marketed by SurgeX. .
>>Now I just said all of this in a respectable manner and used no personal attacks and I actually proved my points with math.
No you have not. Unfortunately you have illustrated your ignore-ance of the role of the capacitive bank, the role it plays in the heating of the printer drum, and any understanding of the operational lifecycle of a laser printer in operation or at rest.
Despite your (incorrect) attempt to tell us how effective a space heater it may be.
'Instant on' circuitry is a convenience feature, NOT a design in increased energy efficiency.
I can only imagine your fear and trepidation at the thought of turning on a 100watt+ stereo! Such 'power'! LOL!
Score: -2
|"Do you mean, where is the ‘current’ coming from? And ‘watts’ simply indicate how much electrical energy is converted to heat – much like in light bulbs, stereos, and toasters and space heaters. Watts do not indicate the amount of light output, nor how loud your speaker or stereo plays, nor, I guess, how many pages your printer can print! So you might want to review what you are saying and say what you mean and mean what you say. Your reference to “power” and to “watts” is incorrect except to indicate how good of a heater your printer is. But then, for all we know, you may indeed be dependent upon it as a heat source."
Wrong. A watt is a measurement of power.
Definition of power: the rate at which work is done.
Definition of watt: a unit of power equal to 1 joule per second; the power dissipated by a current of 1 ampere flowing across a resistance of 1 ohm
To throw in some math: Watts = amps x volts in this case, using watts and current is nearly interchangeable because we are dealing with a standard American wall outlet which supplies 110 - 120 volts thereby making volts a constant and causing amps and watts to vary directly.
Definition of joule: a unit of electrical energy equal to the work done when a current of one ampere passes through a resistance of one ohm for one second
"Nope. The energy (not power´- as I will leave it to you as an academic exercise to Google just what is actually meant by the use of the term “power”) is being applied continuously. Over a period of time, more energy is used in maintaining the charge than is used during a finite charge period. And the full amount is not required each time you turn it on, depending upon the time constant of the capacitance bank. Otherwise, no more net energy is required."
>>This is exactly why I used kilowatt-hours (kWh) as the unit of measurement. Kilowatt-hours take into account the amount of time that an amount of power (yes, power) is being drawn for. It is also the unit electric companies use to calculate your electric bill.
"No you have not. Unfortunately you have illustrated your ignore-ance of the role of the capacitive bank, the role it plays in the heating of the printer drum, and any understanding of the operational lifecycle of a laser printer in operation or at rest."
>>The definition of capacitor: an electrical device characterized by its capacity to store an electric charge
The reason capacitors are used in these printers is because while printing, a 15 amp circuit cannot supply enough current/power to the printer while it is printing. So beforehand, the extra current that is needed must be "stored" in the capacitors. Your argument against me is coming from capacitors. In reality, a capacitor cannot hold charge for an extended period of time without a little bit of current constantly flowing to it. Every time you shut off the printer, the capacitors will drain if you wait a few minutes. When they drain, all the power used to give them charge will have been wasted.
When was the last time you stepped inside a basic physics class?
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|LMAO!
He can Google, but he can’t read for meaning!
So tell us dweeb, what is the work being done by all of your watts? Printing? LOL!
And he found ohms law, only the charge rate of change and the time constant of a capacitor is just a BIT more complex than V=IR, nitwit.
So you list a series of definitions thinking you have accomplished something other than looking silly, and all the while you have YET to relate the definition of work to the definition of power, let alone to your printer and your ridiculous assumption that it ‘consumes tremendous amounts of power’!
And just how do you get all of that 'power' (as you use 'it' as something that actually exists) into the printer for it to 'consume'. LOL!
Unfortunately, the closest you have gotten to a definition in your asinine demonstration of ignorance is that power is simply the measure of the conversion of electrical energy generating heat! And as you have taught us, printers make great space heaters! LOL!
“The reason capacitors are used in these printers is because while printing, a 15 amp circuit cannot supply enough current/power to the printer while it is printing. So beforehand, the extra current that is needed must be "stored" in the capacitors. Your argument against me is coming from capacitors. In reality, a capacitor cannot hold charge for an extended period of time without a little bit of current constantly flowing to it. Every time you shut off the printer, the capacitors will drain if you wait a few minutes. When they drain, all the power used to give them charge will have been wasted.”
Extra current? ‘Extra current’, If there is such a thing, simply results in fires. Current is NOT stored in capacitors. Charge is. But then you probably are still thinking that what we are dealing with is actually the literal flow of electrons, whose drift velocity in measured in terms of inches/feet per minute! LOL!
Oh my, and all of that 'power' stuff is being wasted. But now 'power' is being used to "give them charge". Oh my...
The dilemma is whether to laugh or to cry at this lunacy of misused terms and mangled concepts.
And you went to school where????
While you are at it, do yourself a favor and Google a few more things and discover what ‘charge’ is used for in a laser printer. You might want to start with checking about a drum that is charged with a high Voltage electrostatic charge. But Current?! And in excess of 15 amps? You haven’t a clue. LOL!!!
Oh, and so all capacitors can only hold a charge "for a few minutes". And all capacitors will discharge after power is removed from them “for a few minutes”. LOL!
Tell you what, genius. Unplug your CRT from your computer or TV and let it sit for a few days (make sure you don’t make any noise so as not to wake it) and then open it up and explore with a screw driver. With any luck you will discover the capacitors inside. And if you survive, come back and tell us how the capacitors have discharged after “a few minutes”, Nimrod.
So tell us, genius, just to use a very simple example, how are capacitors commonly used to start motors if they have discharged after “a few minutes”? But then, the stored charge would not be available to provide an initial transient energy boost - so I guess they are just there for show and to add to the cost of the unit. Oh, those rascally marketing folks!
You need to go back and Google a few more definitions until you understand just how capacitors work; and also how they are used in a laser printer. You have managed to find a few words, but in the process aptly demonstrated an almost complete lack of understanding of the terms you misuse.
Oh, and when was I last in a physics class? Let’s see, I wonder if you are referring to taking a class or teaching a class? So, how many degrees in physics do YOU have? Ironically, I have several, just for a start. And do you ONLY have several degrees in physics? Come back when you have something more substantial to debate. The fact is, with what you have demonstrated here, you literally shouldn’t have passed intro physics.
As, not only do you misuse the terms, you don't understand the concepts well enough to debate them.
LOL!
Score: -2
|How old are you, really? Using your maturity as a gauge, you are probably 13. Judging by your knowledge of physics, you are at least 16. If you were 13, at least you would have an excuse. I seriously question your social skills. The negative feedback on your posts in this thread is not from me. That means others seriously question your social skills also. Every time you fear someone could potentially prove you wrong, you resort to personal attacks. I guarantee this comment will receive the response of another immature personal attack.
Heres some more material for your next personal attack: I am 17 and a junior in high school. My knowledge in physics does not come from google, it comes from my school's admittedly watered down honors physics class.
You constantly nitpick at wording and things that I actually do happen to know and you never actually gave proof and reasons for your original point.
I actually thought I might have been able to learn something from this conversation, but clearly you are incapable of having a respectable conversation with someone without constantly resorting to personal attacks.
Remember, no matter how much knowledge you have, you cannot convey it without decent social skills.
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|Guess I was indeed wrong, the states were wrong, the rates are right. Electricity in Rhode Island is 3 times the cost of Wyoming. In Hawaii the cost is 6 times Wyoming.
I'm gonna caution on the side of HP versus some fu¢ktard aššhole poster, thanks for the advice though.
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|Poor babies.
Yes, rather than conducting a physics course, I do use hyperbole (not the curve you slept through in math), litote, sarcasm, and more than a bit of laughter to respond to someone who waltzed in and, without adequate preparation or knowledge, incorrectly uses terms and concepts in an attempt to discredit another post. So it you aren’t up to the task , there’s no sense falling back on the ‘oh, but I am just a little person with incomplete knowledge garnered from a watered down class…’
I “nitpick at wording”? LMAO!
Words mean things. Unfortunately, in your case they border on gibberish, as they utterly confuse and misuse concepts that are indeed based upon valid concepts. Yes, I find the lack of understanding masquerading as knowledge quite humorous, but unfortunately, all too common in the age of symbolism over substance and emotion over objective evidence… And to the degree that you contribute to it, you simply illustrate the sad state of education in our school systems where actual education is sacrificed to image and feelings. And I am sorry if you feel that is an ‘attack’. It is objective fact – regardless of who you are.
But it always is fun to read someone ‘attack’ me for ‘attacking’ someone personally. As if you will recall…YOU were the one who challenged my credentials. Prior to that, I simply ridiculed the ideas and wherever they may have been sourced. But of course, if your attack doesn’t pan out, there is always the option to cry and claim victim status. waaaaa
And you, unfortunately, by your own doing, have demonstrated the both the lack of knowledge and the social skills that you maintain are necessary.
Oh, and by the way. The primary source of the energy usage does not come from the charging of capacitors used for maintaining the high voltage electrostatic charge on the drum. That honor goes to the fuser – which is essentially an old fashion resistive heater – where electrical current is simply converted to HEAT. Of course, I am sure you leave your toaster on 24/7 at home in the event you may decide to have a piece of toast too! Nope, wouldn’t want the inconvenience of having to wait for that toaster to heat, now would we? ;-))
Of course, it makes lots of sense to keep the fuser constantly at operational temperature even when the unit sits for long periods of time without use, doesn’t it? Heaven forbid you switch the unit on and have to wait for a few minutes while the fuser heats to an effective operational temperature sufficient to process the copies. And not only that, it also contributes to the secondary loading of the environment for which air conditioning must be used in commercial buildings to cool and dehumidify the environment – something that must be done year round in many environments as all the electrical equipment, lights, ballasts, human bodies – which contribute both through radiation and humid respiration/transpiration, are constantly adding to the total heat load within the building.
But then you most probably have never had the opportunity to apply the concepts of thermodynamics to practical HVAC design either.
Regarding mjm, he simply hasn't a clue and resorts to reading brochures without having a clue as to what or why they say what they do. Of course, HE would be the genius plugging in several other high current devises into the strip with the laser printer! Which he does with nothing but class. As, after all, thats all he has left as he has exhausted all of his intelligence scratching and belching.
Score: -2
|The issue isn't knowledge necessarily... it's trying to figure out what's actually right. When you start to use hyperbole (wild exaggeration) and other such things in proving other people wrong, it makes it very difficult for 'normal' people who don't have multiple physics degrees take anything you say seriously...
You may not care about us actually taking your opinion as valid, but if you don't care about it, why rebut the wrong facts when they come up? We do (at least, I do) care about getting proper information... but I wouldn't refer my boss to this news post or any of the data below, because with all the random garbage, I can't discern what's correct clearly enough to stake any part of my professional reputation on it.
Maybe that's your goal. If so, the posts above were well designed.
If you were trying to inform us about the proper reality though? Not quite so well done.
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|There was no hyperbole in the technical FACTS nor usage suggestions!.
But PLENTY of technical nonsense in their objections! The hyperbole was in reference to their degree of understanding (or, in this case, the lack thereof!)
Oh, and hyperbole is not "wild exaggeration". It is the use of exaggeration to make a point. A significant difference.
A strip is fine to use as a switched link to control parasitic electrical usage. But you do not plug additional devices into it as it may overload the circuit! Duh.
The price? When you turn on the machine you may have to wait an addition minute or two as the fuser reaches operating temperature. But then, you won't be wasting the energy used to keep it hot for the remaining 23 hours a day its not in use.
Sorry this was so complicated for you...and the others for whom electonics are such a mysterious black box.
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|More often than not:
Symbolism over substance.
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|"some of the materials being used to replace lead, such as cadmium"
Woah. They're using Cadmium as a replacement for lead now? Real nice.
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|thus is the way of the Green movement...CFLs over incandescent to save energy but CFLs are way more toxic after use.
it's just a giant scam. most of these companies call their products "green" by happenstance. does anyone really think Dell is using LED displays b/c they're "greener"? no. any consumer seeing a Dell laptop with 30 minutes to an hr of extra battery life over an identical model from another company (using LCD) will almost always buy the Dell. there's nothing Green about a decision to have more battery life vs less, all things considered.
EU and US governments are forcing green laws on corporations and then sitting back and going, "whoops, our bad" when they actually do the research and conclude it does 0 for the environment or even makes it worse (according to environazis). "sorry you spent hundreds of millions of dollars complying with our laws, but don't expect us to compensate you for a stupid-ass law designed to look good to the (uneducated) public."
Score: 1
|Both HP and Dell voluntarily will accept your old PC's/laptops and dispose of them properly. The regulations they are following have only gotten more and more stringent. Is this not progress? Do you demand perfection in every product you use?
Score: -1
|