RSSMicrosoft: We Use FreeBSD
By David Worthington | Published June 18, 2001, 11:25 PM
Despite the company's bitter campaign against open source software, Microsoft continues to use FreeBSD to power important functions of its Hotmail free e-mail service. Much to the chagrin of the folks at Redmond, FreeBSD and Apache continued to run Hotmail for several years after it was purchased in 1997. Microsoft publicly claimed to have removed all traces of FreeBSD last summer, and even published a case study documenting its experiences. Microsoft told BetaNews that solutions such as FreeBSD are in use throughout its IT infrastructure. A spokesperson also clarified the the software giant's position on OSS technologies, and views on GPL licensing.
Microsoft maintains however, that it is migrating to its own proprietary software and any delays are meant to ensure a positive experience for its customers.
Contrary to recent claims, the popular Hotmail service does not run entirely on the Windows 2000 platform. First reported by the Wall Street Journal, FreeBSD developer Trevor Johnson determined that Microsoft was still using the open source operating system for DNS hosting and also for tracking advertisements. It has also been reported that FreeBSD software components are utilized in Microsoft products, such as Windows 2000. BSD's TCP/IP stack, a vital communication protocol, is rumored to have been used in several Windows operating systems, enabling users to connect to the Internet.
When asked about Microsoft's use of open source software, company spokesperson Rick Miller told Betanews, "We do run a small percentage of FreeBSD on our network. Our use of FreeBSD at Hotmail, however, is simply a legacy issue from when we purchased Hotmail. Our primary concern is the Hotmail user experience - to that end the migration process is being done slowly and carefully to make sure that we have no impact on the user experience."
He added, "At Microsoft we run several of the largest web sites and services on the planet. We also run a network for our 40k plus employees. If you look across our web services we have acquired networks built by other companies, some of which have included FreeBSD. Once we acquire these networks we have to manage their migration. In doing this migration our singular priority is our customer and ensuring the most seamless transition possible. To the extent this migration takes time, we always err on the side of delivering the best experience to our customers."
Miller also offered a clarification to Redmond's overall views on OSS technologies. When asked if it was hypocritical of Microsoft to use open souce software while openly proclaiming its inferiority, BetaNews was told, "We have also been very clear that we believe the OSS model has benefits. In the end - it comes down to choices that businesses make about technologies and licenses that meet a specific need. Our primary concern in the Hotmail case is with the people who use the Hotmail service. FreeBSD is not a better technology; it is just the technology that was in place at the time of acquisition. Businesses have to make choices and we will always put the customer first."
However, the Wall Street Journal reports that a source within Microsoft revealed the company sees technical superiority in BSD for certain tasks. Microsoft is also reported to have increased its reliance on BSD after embarrassing Web site outages in January.
This farily positive review of OSS draws stark contrast to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s apparent "slip of the tongue" when he depicted open source technology as being a "cancer." Miller remarked, "As we said immediately after the article appeared, Steve misspoke. He was referring to the GPL, which by its viral nature threatens IP and is bad for our customers, partners and the industry." Although Millers tows the official company line, Microsoft continues to demonstrate an Orwellian doublespeak, saying one thing while its actions do not match its rhetoric.
I just ran "strings c:\winnt\system32\ftp.exe | grep Regents" on my Windows 2000 box. I got:
"@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California."
That's the required BSD copyright notice. Proof positive. But then, despite rhetoric to the contrary, Microsoft has never denied using BSD code and the history of how they did is pretty clear. They did so in the initial release of Windows NT 3.5 as a shortcut to Posix compliance. They've never bothered to remove the code since. (Not surprising, there's not real reason to.)
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So MS used BSD code in their command-line FTP client which nobody uses. Who cares?
If you could prove that BSD code was used in important parts of the operating system, then you'd be onto something.
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do spwolf is huge?
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http://news.cnet.com/new...-6322264.html?tag=mn_hd
Reading between the lines I realized that Billy only recognizes open source as good under a few condition's.
1: If MS can use it freely.
2: No obligation to the true programmers in any way.
3: They can call someone else's hard work thier own and label it,
THIER INNOVATION
MS can use any Gpl software they want and I think it really piss's them off that they feel they cant, they would have to give credit where credit is due. Could it be they see a lot of truely innovative software being devolped and they cant capitalize on it like they have done to so many in the past? The answear to that is a big YES.... IMHO
OH and heaven forbid producing anything on Gpl guidelines, that would mean sharing without some sort of price tag attached. Nothing is free from MS, That includes IE. IE was just part of bigger plan to dig deeper in your pocketbooks and put a stranglehold on the majority of thier "havent got a clue" users.
I think of Bill G. as shepard. Keeping his flock in line for the good of the his village "Microsoft" and you kow what happens to the bad sheep dont we.
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micro$haft is at it again..
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"Microsoft publicly claimed to have removed all traces of FreeBSD last summer ..." I don't ever recall such a statement made by MS. Do you have reliable source you can cite and if so, why is it not hyperlinked here? Certainly, what you say is not supported by the case study that is apparently being relied upon. What exactly is the "Hotmail site?" Is it refering to the core component(s) of the service or the service as a whole including DNS routing, data storage, ad services? Assumptions perhaps? If so, then clarify that this an editorial and not a news piece.
I think the initial scope of the article was to be that the statement in the case study (and other comments made by MS in their totality) could be interpreted as misleading and/or blatanly false. However, this garbage I see here falls gravely short of supporting such a contention. Given the lack of any credible authority backing the views of the author, and MS clarifying its position, all I see is frabricated, sloppy journalism. The only thing misleading is the article posted here. Hence, why I gave it a yawn in my initial comment.
Konrad.
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Next time, try taking a look at the case study before being so quick to flame.
"During June and July of 2000, the Hotmail site was converted from FreeBSD running Apache Web services to Windows 2000 Server running Microsoft Internet Information Services 5.0. The purpose of this technical case study is to describe how that migration was accomplished."
Microsoft also told the Wall Street Journal last Thursday that Hotmail had been FreeBSD-free since last summer. Which areas don't matter - saying that Hotmail does not use FreeBSD infers that FreeBSD does not exist in the Hotmail infrastructure.
If you don't find the story interesting, move on, but don't try to flame that author simply because you have too much time on your hands- it's unnecessary and unwanted.
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The claim that MS was BSD free should have been referenced in the form of a hyperlink (or dated entry of WSJ), as that was the title of the article. I specifically quoted the phrase "Hotmail site," as it ambiguous and not defined in the case study, which you and Mr. Worthington are relying upon.
Most clear example is an ISP hosting firm exclusively providing IIS service to its customers. Such does not impute that the entire network is soley running on IIS, and may have *nix performing service and support related functions.
But to say that case study in fact mentioned that the entire hotmail system with the implication that supporting functions were migrated as well is misleading.
I apologize for the comment regarding sloppy journalism, as that was unprofessional of me.
Konrad.
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Konrad - your a **** head
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All I have to say is if you don't like Microsoft then don't use there products!!!!!!!!!!! All of you people bashing Microsoft but you still use there products. Name me one OS that can do everything Windows 2000 can do.
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Linux
MacOS
*Commodore 64*
Amiga
FreeBSD
NetBSD
OpenBSD
beOS
qnx
Shall I go on?
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Oh, and I use their products? What are you smoking? .. My wife uses two of their products *WORD and EXCEL* I use none ..
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Bull sh*t none of them can come close to windows 2000, the x-windows font rendering is pure crap, the office suit for Linux , sun , BSD made by sun is crap. Or do you use the super mint “kword” Have you ever used windows 2000? try to run UltraDev 4 on Mac OS 9.1 , and you are heavily limited in what you can do next, if you want to record a cd , forget it. Mac OS X still has to prove its self, i have it and use it , ill give it good networking and internet support, but that’s if for now! *Commodore 64* your a fool, BeOS is now for the most part "DEAD" QNX, dude you are crazy, if I would like to use an ata 100 hard drive controller , I’m out of luck, This is the case whit all except for Linux 2.4.X and windows 2000 I don’t think you know what your talking about, you are a fool.
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I could be very wrong on this and correct me if I am... But I was under the impression that even if you have an ATA100 hard drive, the most that a hard drive actually utilizes is around 48 at which point the hard drive is the bottleneck... (Or something along those lines...)
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Correct, but if you have multiple drives it can make a difference.
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Its called Linux
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No, you are smoking crack .. I can recall doing things on my c64 out of the box that Windows still can't do .. (boot in less than 3 seconds anyone?) Some of us know how to use out computers, those that do know that windows isn't all that .. I have used kword so what? I have also used WP8 WP2000 Abiword Star Office and MS Office all on linux, how many options do you have? They all get the job done ..
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Your C64 booted in less than 3 seconds!!!! Wow! That must obviously mean it's a superb OS...we should all stop using whatever we're currently using and go back to using a C64...because it can boot fast and that obviously means it is superior.
As for Office Suites....yes I can run WordPerfect, Star Office and MS Office under windows and I do not require any emulator to do so either.
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Booting fast was not the point, it was only part of it .. Computers from 20 years ago can do the same thing that todays computers can do there is no disputing that .. The only thing that todays computers have the edge are speed and display capability (though the Amiga kicked every other computers a** for years) You don't "Need Windows" it's all a bunch of crap the m$ marketing machine would have you believe .. If that's what you want to use, hey whatever .. Me, I prefer to deal with honest companies that don't **** their competition, as well as their customers ..
-8vO
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Oh, and I don't need an emulator either, so I'm going to have to say that you are basing your opinion on only what you have heard, and not on fact ..
MS Office - Wine (Wine is not an emulator)
Wordperfect 8 - Native
Wordperfect 2000 - Native using Wine libraries
Koffice - Native
Abiword - Native
StarOffice - Native
Applixware - Native
Andrew - Native
Siag - Native
I can continue if you'd like, I have 10 times the choices you do .. You go now, boot your MS OS use your MS browser to browse the www while you write your text based document with an MS wordprocessor and you get your viruses in your MS email client ..
Me, I'd rather put my eggs in more than one basket ..
-8vO
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Oh my god you have lost it...
I have 3 letters for You..
C O M
O L E
A D O
these three letter acronyms encapsulate the superiority of Win2K over any operating system that has ever been developed. Once you understand them and technical value of such...then talk
til then
SHUT UP!
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AMEN Brother!!!!
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>Oh my god you have lost it...
>
>I have 3 letters for You..
>
>C O M
>
>O L E
>
>A D O
>
>these three letter acronyms encapsulate the superiority of Win2K
>over any operating system that has ever been developed. Once you >understand them and technical value of such...then talk
>
>til then
>
>SHUT UP!
I'll bet you use recordset.movenext and recordset.update an aweful lot don't you .. MMM superiority, move the whole table into an array to make one change, and then save the WHOLE table back to disk .. Yeah that's right Win2K is sooo superior.. COM? please ..
When you become a real programmer come back and post, till then, shut up ..
OOH LOOKEY THERE PAW, VS MAKES THEM THERE WINDERZ FER YA! NOW I CAN GIT ME A REEL JOB WRITING WINDERS..
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Ladies and gentlemen, we see again how ignorance has caused our poor little friend to make himself sound stupid.
His comments on ADO humor me, I bet he is using JDBC to access his Oracle database...hmm, wonder why SQL2K is 3 times as fast as oracle? (see tpc.org)
But to combat his argument, I will tell him ADO actually handles recordsets. Recordsets are accessed via ADO using a collection of classes nested inside one another. Using OLEDB as a translation library, ADO speaks directly with the data as it resides in the database through a series of refernced pointers that are stored in an array in memory. So before you start talking about the inner working of it, LEARN IT!
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no s*** sherlock .. What you read that out of a book? I was using ADO while you were still in grade school pulling raw data off of a switch at a clec .. It was a joke then, and it's a joke now .. sql has higher tpc scores only because it has been written only to win benchmarks .. put a load of real data on it, and watch it puke..
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Yep, just what I thought...another poor Oracle fan who dismisses the TPC whenever MSFT or IBM sits on top.
Read it out of a book, you have no idea who you are talking to. You result simple to arguments you learned in the third grade because you can’t talk facts. You have the stench of an oracle sales person who knows nothing more than your self paced training CDs have told you about MSFT products.
I would debate you on this crap but is obvious all you know how to do is whine and say how Linux and Java and Oracle are so much better but amidst all your noise, you like the masses of people just like yourself cannot offer one shred of evidence to support your whiney ass!
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Take a close look at the copyright message on your C64 next time you boot it up. Yes, that's right, Micro$oft.
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>Yep, just what I thought...another poor Oracle fan who dismisses the
>TPC whenever MSFT or IBM sits on top.
Actually I do not favor any database software .. I am however the administrator of both ..
>
>Read it out of a book, you have no idea who you are talking to. You
Don't much care either ..
>result simple to arguments you learned in the third grade because
>you can’t talk facts. You have the stench of an oracle sales person
Can not talk facts? Tell me where I have stated anything but .. Fact Microsoft Lies, Fact there were methods of data extraction long before microsoft invented ADO .. (yeah that's a jab ..)
>who knows nothing more than your self paced training CDs have told
>you about MSFT products.
Really? You think? I'll bet that I know far more about MS products than you do, perhaps not at the object level, but I have been using, and administering them since the DOS 1.0 / MS-Xenix days ..
>
>I would debate you on this crap but is obvious all you know how to
>do is whine and say how Linux and Java and Oracle are so much better
Who said anything about java and oracle? Java is about useless in it's current state .. I have yet to see a java application that does not fail 9 times out of 10, or completely deplete my desktop of resources ..
>but amidst all your noise, you like the masses of people just like
>yourself cannot offer one shred of evidence to support your whiney
>ass!
It's all around you, just open your eyes and you will see it .. I was like you once, just another sheep .. I was at the front of the line pushing Netware out and putting NT in, and it's a mistake I'll never forget .. Once you insert one MS product you have to insert them all .. Tell me oh knowledgeable one, what is the truth?
-8vO
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Yeah I know .. I have to hand it to them, they truly did innovate back then .. :-)
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OK, finally we get somet truth out of ya...
Now tell me, what/where is UTOPIA if everything seems to suck.
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Tell me, where was I not truthful? I'd like to see it .. I have not made any false claims .. Hey can you tell me what \e[0m does? :-P
-8vO
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I'm perfectly happy Linux myself .. It does what I need at home .. I use a mix of everything at work .. Then again I am the administrator .. I have worked in all Linux or all Unix shops, and I must say they are the smoothest ..
-8vO
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There is no version of Linux that supports the amount of hardware or software that Windows 98, Me or even 2000 does. There is no other OS period,that can. So all you people can shut the hell up. Microsoft's operating systems may have a few problems here and there but most of the problems come from the other companys badly coded programs and drivers. I use both Linux and Windows 2000 and all I have to say is Win 2000 wins hands down.
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yeah, the Commodore was a great computer. I used my C128 for a long long time...
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You are unreal, what do you do? I have decided to end my dissection with you.
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"Java is about useless in it's current state .. I have yet to see a java application that does not fail 9 times out of 10, or completely deplete my desktop of resources .."
JBuilder 5? I know there may be better examples but that's one major application written in java and widely used.
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I'd definetely say that Oracle is far superior to SQL2K...and so would most of the world....have a look at how many critical-enterprise systems run SQL2K and how many run Oracle (or even DB2 or Sybase). Many DBA's have told me that from a DBA's perspective DB2 is the superior database but from a developer's point of view (i.e. mine for instance) there is no way I would pick SQL2K over Oracle.
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Yes, if you want to get technical WINE is not an emulator, never meant to say that it was, but without getting into the details of how WINE works (i.e. it is a layer that sits above X and translates Windows API calls into their respective counterparts), I simply said 'emulator'. God forbid someone doesn't expand everything they say. Point was...you're not running MS Office natively, and for someone who hates anything to do with MS it's slightly ironical that you would go and use it's Office Suite.
Secondly....does linux have more office suites available....most likely. I'm sure there are quite a few lying around for Windows...but why would you use a office quite that is incompatible with the office suite used by 'everyone else' (this relates to everyone else around you or everyone else in your company or everyone else at your college/university...not every single person in the world).
It's great that there are so many Office Suites you can use....but do you use them all? Even a majority? Why is that? Choice is superb, but if you're sharing files with others your choice usually depends on what office suite those others are using.
Oh and I don't use Outlook as my email client....but thanks for your concern.
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I don't use MS office .. I do however have a copy of it, and yes it works in wine, and it is installed on one of my systems (the one my wife uses, she also uses WordPerfect Office 2000) .. Not all of MS's products are bad .. Office is the killer app .. Unfortunately MS is a company gone bad .. Their O/S has never been stable, and they have yet to bring out an O/S that doesn't suck (though all of their releases are so great they claim) I have to reboot my Admin system at work every other day even though it's running 2000 .. Now to top it off they are taking more of the third party tools I use, and integrating them into their O/S which will effectively kill more competition ..
-8vO
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Haven't used it .. I do however have reboot my admin station after using some of oracle's java tools on Win32 .. :-( Maybe there are good java apps out there, but I haven't managed to find them yet .. LOL
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my my, aren't you uninformed .. I have hardware that linux supports no questions asked that win2k won't touch .. Do you have any proof to back that statement up? What won't work on Linux that works on Windows?
-8vO
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Poorly written drivers? These are perhaps the drivers you said are not in Linux?
Many hardware manufacturers will not produce drivers for their hardware for anything beyond microsoft products, as they are they are relatively easy to develop for, and they hit most of the consumer market. Most drivers in Linux are written by those in the linux community, often without specs from the company in question (although not always).
If one sticks with fairly mainstream hardware, then there is no question whether it will work in linux.
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So you admit you are not a programmer! You are an admin for a small shop. Small? Well you are running linux, a freebie OS! Your shop obviously cannot afford to pay for real software. So you use hobbiest OSes. I think it is great that you have a hobby! (But I bet you don't pronounce Linux correctly. I bet you pronounce it like linen when it really is Linus's name and actually rhymes with peanuts. Lee-nux)
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freebsd (net-,open-,) is technically years ahead of whatever windows.
apple has already relaized that (macos X)
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Mac OS X , actually uses a micro kernel, and what is so light years ahead in that?
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They're like the U.S. government. Constantly getting caught lying. It's a miracle Microsoft butt kissers believe anything they say anymore.
WindowsME: Just Works!
Product Activation: No personal information will be sent to Microsoft (except the ID of every piece of hardware in your computer).
Windows9x is the best version of Windows ever! (3 years later)... Avoid Windows9x crashes and use Windows2000!
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Windows ME 'Just Worked' for me when I had it installed on my computer, never had any of the problems some people were complaining of. Seems that WinME either worked flawlessly or didn't work at all, not great odds for an OS but I thought it was worth a mention that not everyone had problems with WinME.
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Learn how WPA works before you talk about it. That's the common problem people have with WPA, they hear wrong or exaggerated things from the press and continue to believe em. BTW, it takes your entire hardware configuration and generates a 52-digit number, which is different for every computer on the market. Hardware IDs are useless you idiot, a single piece of hardware could never be tracked to a person, group, or even corporation.
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If this is a top story, I better look elsewhere for real news.
Konrad.
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We are Microsoft. You will be assimilated. We will add your technological uniqueness to our own. Resistance is futile.
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I think that speech fits the U.S. better, since it is like a big melting pot where people lose their unique cultural and traditional identities.
--We are the United States of America. You will be assimilated. Stop practicing your religion, culture, and traditions and surrender your families. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
Here's the original:
We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
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That's the most retarded thing I've read in a long time.
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So basically, you are saying tha freedom of religion, freedom of speech, so forth, and so on, are all lies?
I think you need some serious help.
A more accurate description of the US is a bowl of salad.
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I am not saying that the freedoms are lies. It is just that the U.S. seems to prefer having everyone like the same things, do the same things, and be simply "American", and nothing else. I personally believe that the U.S. is the biggest meddler ever. Talk about bombing embassies because of outdated maps, and crashing into other people's planes while spying. Seeing the way the U.S. is meddling with the internal conflicts of other countries, I will not be suprised if the U.S. gives Québec a whole arsenal of missiles the next time Québec tries to separate from Canada.
-- I disagree with your opinion that the U.S. is like a mixed salad. I am doing okay in school with my point of view on this matter, and if I had yours I might fail.
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Hmm.... let me think about this for a second.
A big, highly immaneuverable spy plane crashes into a highly maneuverable figther jet? Interesting.
Everyone is free to their own religions and customs, hell, it's against the law to keep them from doing it, there is no one stopping them from practicing there customs.
Have you ever even been in America?
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Okay, the plane crashing is a bad example because it is still unresolved. I know that the U.S. has laws to guarantee human rights, but although I am unable to prove it I am still entitled to my opinion that the U.S. is meddling with things that are none of their business and that it is a "melting pot". I also believe that it is too proud. Anyhow, what could go wrong if you follow your textbooks and your teachers to the letter on matters of opinion if you agree? FYI, I did go to the United States several times, and it did not give me a very good impression. If you can convince me otherwise, I will reconsider.
--If you are going to defend a country please try to differentiate between "their" and "there".
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I'm sorry you think that the United States is too proud? Why is this again? Is it because we are the most well off? Is it because we have an extreme amount of natural resources?
Why does everyone take shots of who is on top?
Did you know that Americans work more hours every week than any other country? I'm not going to get into an efficiency argument but we have what we have because we work hard for it.
If you don't like it, don't come here. If you do, welcome.
How come no one is mad at Sweden for having the highest average level of education? "You smarty!"
As far as Linux goes, if you think x-window fonts look like hell you should search for anti-aliasing in KDE.
ftp://ftp.kde.com/pub/dot/img/preview.png
before:
http://www.linuxplanet.c...s/3093/1/screenshot2049/
after:
http://www.linuxplanet.c...s/3093/1/screenshot2050/
I have never learned so much from an OS other than Linux. I can't use it at work yet because Evolution (an Outlook type client) from Ximian Gnome isn't done yet.
Linux got me a job working for the President-Elect Bush when he wasn't in the White House. (not that I like him) Linux empowers.
I'm sorry some of you haven't tried it and are judging it. Isn't that what racisim is?
Windows isn't as bad as people think. ME is great for gaming. There's no other purpose in my opinion. Linux gaming is coming along but isn't there yet. Windows has the best audio editing software (Sound Forge) and I use it for remixing/audio production. Office is good. But it's all expensive. And NT is horrible for a mainframe server.
You use NT when you have de-UNIX-ified administrators. Of course, most companies can't afford to hire those with the skills.
It's funny how there's not a black and white to all of this isn't it? Maybe that's why they call it product placement!!!
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I do admit that once in awhile when I'm not really thinking about it, I mix up their and there, but it is perfectly correct in my post.
It used to be that America was damed for NOT getting into other countries' business, now you are saying that we need to get out of it.... that's really smart.
What is the US doing to other countries? Well let's see, we stopped the violence that Melosovich (is that spelled right?) was creating, we have been trying to bring peace to the middle east (something that will probably never happen until the second coming of Christ, but a good effort none the less), trying to keep peace among the major Asian nations, all the while trying to please us stupid greedy Americans ;) All the US is doing is picking up where the UN leaves off in the role of peace keeping.
Heck, just the other day, there was someone on the news saying that the US needs to step out as more of a leader, he and others were pissed saying that we weren't doing enough. You just can't please everybody can you?
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I agree that you can't please everyone, and I know that the U.S. has been damned by others for not doing enough. Still I think that the U.S. should not try to strain relationships between other governments as a thrid party trying to help one side as it is doing now.
I say that U.S. is too pround because it seems that it believes that it has the right to do anything and it is right in doing what it does. In my opinion, the U.S. government is too proud unwilling to admit its mistakes.
--I like visiting the U.S., and it is wonderful for vacations, but I don't like the impoliteness of some the Americans I meet. I probably am thinking too negatively about the U.S. but I can't help it.
--FYI, you post says "practicing there customs", and if you don't know it then I must tell you it should be "practicing their customs", and I don't think you spelt the name right.
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Yes, there are a lot of absolutly stupid and incredibly rude Americans out there, but that's not exactly the majority.
You are probably right, Americans in general are darn proud to be an American.
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I am sorry if I have offended anyone with my rather broad and incorrect generalization of Americans. I believe people should be proud of their country, and believe in it because it will be a shame if they live in a country they do not trust.
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Im sorry to say, being American, I assume, you forgot the rest of the world... No, the US of America does not work the most hours per week... far from it... Check Asian countries work ethics firstly...
(Do americans work more then 40hrs per week on average? No, they have weekends)
Americans have extreme amounts of Natural resources? Check where do all of America's reserves come from... Do they produce all their own Natural Gas and Oil? Think not... (the wouldnt have cared about Kuwait) Other rare minerals? not likely (they import from SAmerican, African, Australian, and the Middle Eastern regions)
(take a look at Australia's resources for one, its placed the number one country, for resources per population(not just for resources either))
Is US of America the number one country? In what area? In general, Id strongly doubt it, check tourism figures...
American's often see themselves as 'The World' look at the 'World Series' and what OTHER countries compete... opps none... It's this arrogance of Americans, that people dont warm to...
No one is trying to brow beat Americans, just bringing them down to earth
The issue of OS' who really cares, to each their own. After all, like all spoken languages of today, they all came from one original language, be it Latin (western world), Arabic dialects, or Asian dialects, similarities are found across all these languages... So as do operating systems... They have all started from the early OS'
How about the people whom HATE microsoft products, work with them, to better the products... and the people whom HATE linux, input in to the linux 'project' and fix it's 'problems'...
Myself, I use both, dual booting, FreeBSD/Win2K Adv Server or RedHat/WinME (laptop)
This artice is more of a a misscommunicae between departments of Microsoft, Microsofts press agents didn't correctly state all the pedantics regarding the issue.
Public Relations aren't Engineer's
that's my 2 cents anyway
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One of these days people will wake up, and realize that MS is not such a good company after all ..
Lying bas****s ..
-8vO
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What next? Are they going to have a case study where they say they use linux and mac stuff next?
give me a break.......
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m$ is the virus, and the business world is starting to realize that, look at the article in the WSJ yesterday, if that's not a slap across the face, I don't know what is .. Wake up I.T. !!
-8vO
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they use mac internally .........
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I know - I can't believe it! I fully expect them to deliver software for the Macintosh platform without having any Macintoshes on their campus. I mean, come on! Is that too much to ask?
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hehehe... good one
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im sure they use linuxboxen (internally with all the distris out there ) to learn something about. and they dont deliver software for linux. why ?
hahahahaha...........
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Wow, you are brilliant...did you come up with that all by yourself.
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Wow! Did you become that ignorant all by yourself?!!
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Actually, they do use Linux.
http://www.newsforge.com...1352243&mode=thread
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Bill Gates revolutionized ease of use for computers, like 3dfx revolutionized 3d gaming with glide years ago. Like all other companys microsoft must give in sometimes, but M$ is in it for the money and has the money to buy out most small software companys and hire stand alone developers into their team. Who really cares if ms uses other operating systems, we all know that their software is NOT flawless, they know it to but they do try to fix it (and yes, they charge stupid people for those fixes) I have used an amiga, ive used a c64, ive used linux (many distributions, and btw slackwares my favorite.), ive used every flavor of BSD known to man. i still have to resort to microsoft sometimes because most programmers dont have the TALENT to program under anything except windows. i don't claim to know it all, i dont claim i'm right, this is just my way of looking at, if you dont like it dont accept it, if you agree with me then im glad that their are other people who can look at all sides of a situation.
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oh yeah, if you dont like the fact that i dont use perfect grammar, get over it. im lazy.
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I agree with you on most points, but you have to admit that they have gone bad .. They flex their monopolistic muscles more and more every day .. I don't want my computer to have to be registered with M$, I don't want to buy a computer with M$ loaded on it (no white box isn't always the answer), No GPL isn't a virus, No I don't want to use WMF, no I don't want to use Messenger (yeah, use something else huh, what are you using? why are you using it? soo what do I have to use to communicate with you?) .. Now they are twisting the truth beyond belief so they can continue to hold their reign over our computers ..
-8vO
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There is one thing that Windows can do that Linux really can't, and makes Windows a more more popular option for the average consumer. Gaming!
Sure there are Linux ports of certain good games, and probably many Linux-native games that are pretty good as well. And rightfully, there are many Linux dedicated servers for games like Half-Life, etc... I don't think I can argue the fact that performance and stability-wise, Linux has a BIG advantage over any version of Windows. However, I've always had problems running games in Linux. Upgrading drivers and such is a pain in the a** compared to how easy it is in Windows (in most cases).
Getting a games, or any other software, for that matter, to run in Linux is considerably more difficult for the average computer user.
In the past few years though, Linux has come a long way. Those of us who already know how to use Linux may not find doing this difficult. WhHowever, the average person doesn't share the technological enthusiasm that we computer 'experts' do. You know and love Linux, and I know and love Linux. So what? Joe Q. Public, who makes up 80%+ of the market share out there doesn't give a s*** about that. He wan'ts an OS and software that's as simple to use as possible. He wants to pop the CD in the drive, and be playing his game within a few minutes. And at this point in time, there's just no way Linux can offer that.
Sorry to say, but Windows wins hands down in that department. Sure there are problems with MS OSes. There are stability issues, and they are not as secure as LInux boxes. But the fact is that most people don't really have any serious problems with their Windows machines. Simplicity for the end user is where it's at. At the moment, Windows is the ideal platform.
But M$ should be afraid, very afraid. It mal be a lot largerm but Linux is not going away. It may be smaller, but it's got a much more solid foundation to stand on that Windows.
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>Bill Gates revolutionized ease of use for computers
Really?? Just what exactly has he revolutionized? All of their "innovations" that I've seen have been borrowed (or stolen) from others. The closest that MS has done to revolutionize ease of use is to combine features that were invented by others into one place, often through heavyhanded tactics designed to eliminate the real innovator.
I wish people would quit repeating this ridiculous mantra that MS has made so many great breakthroughs in computing.
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People typically think MS "stole" the idea of Windows from Apple, but in fact, Apple stole it from Xerox. Its like breaking into a house, finding another robber in the house, and saying "Get out, I'm robbing this house"
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They invented basic, and revolutionised the computer industry by selling it to any computer maker that wanted it .. I have to give them that, they were visionaries back in the day .. Unfortunately that day has been gone for some time now ..
-8vO
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Apple stole from Xerox, MS stole from Apple, IBM, You, Me, every other damn computer manufacturer / reseller / developer / end user on the face of the earth ..
I'd like my $500 bucks back in licenses I don't use now please ..
mmmmkay?
-8vO
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There are lots of projects out there to fix all of the issues you mentioned in your post :-) (That's the best part of Linux .. By the time you notice a problem, someone is already half way to a solution )
X4 made it easy for video card manufacturers to develop closed drivers to they would not have to give up their I.P.
Loki and several other companies have developed gui installers that are great (I have used a few of them now ..)
Ximian and the KDE project are making the desktop very easy to use ..
The games are coming to linux at an unbelievable rate ..
http://www.lokigames.com
http://www.linuxgames.com
http://www.penguingames.com
:-)
Linux is definately maturing quickly, and will be a non-computer users desktop O/S in no time ..
-8vO
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No, BASIC was invented back in 1964 at Dartmouth College. Bill Gates didn't get involved with it until something like the mid-70's. This is even one more example of his taking something that someone else invented and then either repackaging or rewriting it and acting like it was his own idea.
The challenge still stands..... can anyone name anything that MS actually invented all on their own that has proven to be worthwhile?
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Damn, I stand corrected .. :-)
I at least wanted to give the company something
They brought a low cost all purpose o/s (dos ..)
to this day it's useful :-)
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The BSOD is the biggest innovation i can think of made by microsoft...
i havent used many older systems, or os's, so they could have copied it too...
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Your right, but remember, like everything microsoft does, they pulled their shid together where other companys didnt, integration, and the ease of use, is where its at so to speak ;)
I know 99% of microsofts work have been based off of and down right stolen from other companys, but still, who else brings it together in a package for a reasonable price and offers support and ease of use
(yes, linux is free...but for people NOT like the people on this forum, whos gonna be able to use it reliably? and to its full potential on top of that.)
i agree with the people who have commented on what I wrote ninety nine percent if only they saw the factor of integration, look at office
photoshop is awesome, everyone knows that
wordperfect used to be nice, now its got a few nice things and they copied office on a few things, its a give and take relationship.
email managers with an adress book, scheduler, and calendar built in
Their were none before office (correct me if im wronge, but i dont remember any that were EASY TO USE and were as functional)
I'm not saying linux is god, im not saying its perfect, I agree with the guy that said its come a long way, because it has, and i grow to love it more every time it does something windows doesnt.
you people are neglecting this, linux and windows both have VMware to run the opposite of the two if you can afford it, be like me have linux stability so that if windows crashes your base OS Is still up :)
the only games I play now is counter-strike and UT, both run under linux
HL UNDER LINUX: http://lhl.linuxgames.com
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Oh yes, I forgot to put my two cents on what I mean by revolutionized in.
I didn't mean he made it, I meant he brought it all together in one package that was easy to use.
Where was linux when windows 95 was released? was it easy to use then?
were macintoshes half decent then for anything besides educational use?
I don't like MS or Bill Gates, and i'd sue the p1ss out of him if he took any of my work without paying me for it. I have to however give him credit for what he has done, make computers a wider market since without windows most people would be to dumb to use computers without expensive training ;)
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About the Product Activation..
Some who think the info can't be back-tracked, could be wrong!
Why? Some hardware have a unique ID, like networking cards (the MAC address). If you registered your card (this is just an example), you probably sent your MAC address with it.
This WPA nr is also generated from this address.. So they have your address AND they probably can also retrieve the MAC-address registration at the network-card manufacturer...
(pure theoretically!)..
The point is, I don't want Microsoft to send ANY information about me, identifiable or not, to their huge registered users list.
I decide if I want to send info..
If I ever buy this WinXP, I probably don't register it, and probably also search for a work-around for this registration process..
Oh, and by the way.. COM is not new.. It's very similar to RPC on *nix, available for a long, long time..
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Hmmm, you're almost close here. Microsoft purchased DOS, made enhancements to it (mostly by the guy that wrote the original, who they hired at the same time as they bought DOS), and sold the new version.
This is really another example of taking something someone else has done and selling it as your own. MS (and their sympathizers) have been pushing this "we invented DOS" line for so long that most people believe it. The truth is that they bought it from the real inventor.
I still stand by my assertion that MS has yet to come up with any significant and worthwhile innovations on their own.
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No, they did invent DOS, and licensed it to IBM, later deciding that it was so good that they wanted to sell it to others ..
-8vO
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btw, I'm by no means sticking up for m$ reas my other posts heh
-8vO
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I hate to tell you this, but that's what innovating is.
Microsoft invented smart tags, Microsoft is the first to really do the .net type of thing, they were the first to create an OS that was really usuable by most of the public (MacOS is just now starting to get usable with OSX), and so one, and so forth.
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Did you read the post? They didn't invent it, they purchased it.
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Yes I read it, and I don't agree ;-)
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If I remember right, the operating system MS bought was actually called qdos. And if I remember even more correctly, that in fact stood for Quick and Dirty Operating System. I don't know if that was just a myth, but if it's true it should say a lot about MS....
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MS invented smart tags ...eh?...rofl....did u heard about FLyswat s*** and Company ? ...no MS never was 1st....they only copy and summarize others works....sometimes with better result...mainly with worse....:((
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ok, to settle the whole thing about dos, bill gates and steve balmer bought dos for 50,000 USD and had actually licesened it to ibm even before they had it...pay attention to you're history guys...btw, the whole windows macintosh deal who came up with the gui first, it was xerox, not MS or apple...:) apple as given it by xerox and bill promptly oproceded to "borrow" parts of it for windows 1.0. just fyi and my two cents
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Anyone forgetting Archemedies computers? Made by BBC Microsystems?
They were even before the Commodore Amiga for GUI's...
Pity Xerox didnt know what they had initially, looking back on all the patents they hold, they come close to 3M almost
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