yeah....1 zune for every 25 i-pod sold...pretty close..is the zune 2 80 GB gonna be better than the 30GB except its memory..Is it worth buying the 80GB (Iwant it though)....If u guys are good sales (entreprenuers) people..hen convince me to get one..or at least tell me some good stuff about the zune 2 80GB...thanks Bill and J allard

Gates really does need to retire if he thinks his presence is going to make the least bit of difference.

In fact, it comes across as more reason to avoid the product. After all, if it can't even begin selling itself based on features and merit (even after a redesign)....

Does it support flac ?

It has a killer feature-WMA Pro support which can double the capacity of stored songs compared to even AAC. WMA Pro at 48 kbps sounds very good. While the original WMA is the worst codec, WMA Pro is the best codec.

Sorry, AAC+ outperforms WMA Pro at low bitrates, and on top of it, it's standards-based and open. The parametric stereo in AAC+ is an engineering feat, where WMA Pro is... well, it's better than WMA. It's a polished turd, basically.

If they do support AAC+, I'll consider it. If they keep going down the DRM path and oh-ya-mp3, forget it.

BillG, choose wisely.

Out of the many listening tests that have been conducted, some of shown eAAC+ to be superior, others have shown WMA Pro to be superior (Google is your friend). The best part about WMA Pro is 7.1 multichannel support, 24-bit 96 KHz sound and dynamic range compression. And although AAC/HE-AAC is an open standard, its implementation varies by vendors, such a major company like Apple doesn't support AAC+ and AAC+ multichannel encoders are few. It is definitely not a "polished turd" compared to WMA if you've really listened to music in the format.

[The best part about WMA Pro is 7.1 multichannel support, 24-bit 96 KHz sound and dynamic range compression.]

Since the Zune is mostly used for audio playback (c'mon, you're not going to hookup your zune as a source for your HDTV!) over headphones, what good does 7.1 channel support give you (oh, yeah, those new Bose 7.1 headphones - pht!)?

As for 96 KHz 24-bit sound, that might sound good, but you want to keep your sampling rate the same as your source, so 44.1 KHz 16-bit is all you need.

In summary, WMA-Pro is a nice spec, but it makes no difference on a Zune. Since Zune comes in brown, I think the "polish turd" reference is fitting, though I don't know why the folks in Warsaw end up the brunt of a Microsoft joke.

Considering the IMO lackluster performance of the original Zune products, I can't say I am looking forward to any formal Microsoft announcements in the next couple of days.

I wouldn't touch anything entertainment related from this company with YOUR money.

It'll be proprietary - it won't support true UMS.

It'll be loaded with DRM.

It'll command a price premium.

Just like the original Zune.

In short it will be CRAP, just like the Apple garbage.

"In short it will be CRAP, just like the Apple garbage. "

Considering the ipod makes up about 1/3rd of apples revenue...I'd hardly consider it garbage...

McDonalds is worlds most succesfull restaurant; can't say that ain't crap.. It definitely ain't haute cuisine.. If something's very popular, it doesn't mean it is briljant.

By which definition?

One man's treasure is another man's trash.

Just as with BETA vs VHS. Quality necessarily doesn't always win. VHS had more titles and more storage space per tape.

I travel a lot and I've yet to see a Zune 1.x in public anywhere.

What I find the most amazing thing is, that you can't buy Zune in Canada yet. Like really are we a 3rd world country or something. Come on MS get your butt in gear, Bring us Zune2

Tigerdirect had some,the toronto loacation, they only had the white so i had to get mine in miami. V2 is dropping at the right time, our duck is on par with the US flatback.

I got the first Zune last year and I haven’t regretted yet, 11 month of use and it still looks brand new.

Zunev2 looks a lot better, and that new control looks interesting, the software need to be upgraded even though it works great for me, if they make it possible to access or sync content via Wi-Fi, ad zunecast, more video formats supported, that would be awesome.
So in conclusion if they use the same materials as z1 upgrade the firmware and implement the stuff I mentioned this player will defiantly steal some of apples thunder …I hope there is brown, wouldn’t mind having zunev1 and zunev2 in brown.

How did you manage to keep your screen from getting all scratched?

if the new flash one doesn't have 16gb of memory, I'm going with the sansa view + rhapsody

I'm getting one, end of story.

I wish them best of luck. Actually, that's not sarcasm. I really mean it. Maybe more competition (or the attempt thereof) will keep Apple on their toes and keep prices down. Competition is good. Even if you're an Apple fanboy, you should cheer this on since it can only benefit you as well.

Is the Zune doomed?
http://www.last100.com/2...9/26/is-the-zune-doomed/

Spam somewhere else. Or better yet, just don't spam. Thanks. Have a nice day.

scratch that nice bit.

Sometimes you're just too kind, man.

Need to be a jerk once in a while.

...jerk.

See? That was easy. And fun. :P

Old article.

More crappy hardware from the masters of crap hardware.

http://n4g.com/xbox360/News-71365.aspx

I hope people weren't holding out for the supposedly reliable 65nm Falcon 360's LOL...

More crappy trolls from the masters of crappy trolls....

Add to that Halo 3 is not even in a HD resolution.

http://www.joystiq.com/2...0p-pixel-counters-claim/

And Halo 3 failed to live up to the hype, so Microsoft dumped Bungie.

http://blog.seattlepi.nw...ick/archives/122799.asp

Things ain't looking to Rosy for Microsoft at the moment, what with the Vista fiasco, and $8Billion of XBox debt.

software, sure, hardware, wot?

loved their mice, keyboards, game controllers, and xbox 1. haven't caved into the halo 3 craze *yet* for the 360, but we'll see what happens by xmas. their hardware is great and their closed operating system products like the xbox are pretty sweet too when you dont have to worry about viruses and malware. i still think windows/ie/media player/office(you know, that old chestnut) is a turd, but the rest of their "stuff" is pretty cool.

ms surface, way cool

ROFL I LOVE THESE GUYS!

The first sentence in the article "someone I know"

Yeah, that definitely a refutable source

Second, WTF does the xbox360 have to do with the ZUNE.

700,000 XBOX live users playing Halo 3 online on the first day is a failure?

Man, I'd hate for you to be my boss. Nothing would make you happy.

LOL!! Have you read that link??

"A friend of mine who has someone close that works at Bungie has just been dying to tell me a secret about their future"

Yea...a friend of a friends girlfriend who lives with this guy that has this friend in China whos cousin knows this guy...give it up, Halo 3 is making more money then most hollywood films. I just stopped playing 5 mins ago, and at the time it said there were 850,000 players on...I wonder if there is EVER anything over 500,000 PS3's even TURNED ON at the same time in the entire world.

Ok I know this has nothing to do with Zune but I have to point something out after reading that crappy link:

MICROSOFT OWNS BUNGIE. God there's a lot of stupid people on the internets ;)

Better not add your beloved PS3 games that failed the 'HD test' using that same method then either?
Way to go on a zune thread btw...

I know there aren't supposed to be any type of personal attacks on these forums, but it has to be said...

You truly are a complete and total idiot.

Oh, I don't know... possibly?

All those protein folding sessions seems to be all the PS3 is really good for.

steve, you have to be kiddin'. Micrsoft just had the biggest 24hour release in entertainment (not gaming only) history. A $170 million in one day. That is far from failed. Be honest, Halo 3 is already success. It was a success before release. Plus Microsoft still own the exclusive rights to the Halo series.

He has it on the freakin CARPET!!! what do you expect??!!

ROFL 8 billion?

What is it with you and inflated numbers

Well the Dirtbox division debt was $4 when the original Dirtbox failed. The development costs of the Dirtbox360, subsiquent billion dollar costs of failed Dirtbox360, and the fact Microsoft has never made any money on anything Dirtbox related, means 8Billion is actually very accurate. There is a forbes report that this figure comes from, just after the Dirtbox360 failure fund was announced.

proof?

I purchased a new Zune during the recent steep discount promotions (or should I say dumping?) of first edition Zunes. At $250 I wasn't attracted to the devices but at $130 I thought it was a great deal. After using it for a few days I am not entirely convinced of the value of the purchase.

$130 for 30GB of portable media player is great.

$130 for 30GB of locked tight with DRM, not usable as disk space, limited media formats, lack of automated video conversion, very grabby desktop client, short battery life, proprietary connection on the device, portable media player is not so great.

I wish Rockbox had a port to this device.

yikes. is it that bad? i just like that it has an FM tuner and a flat side so you can sit it on its side and watch movies. i wish the ipod touch did that. would be sweet

The navigation on an iPod is so unwieldy as to be virtually useless, whereas the Zune controls are far more intuitive and efficient. I've tried both and the Zune wins for me hands down.

i messed with a Zune in the store and thought the controls were horrible and unusable; no wonder no one is buying them.

what? the iPod UI is about as easy to understand and user friendly as it can get...you get a menu...and a couple choices...music, videos, and a few others...if thats hard then you don't belong using a portable music player...

They still sell this piece of s***?! "laughs"

I don't get why people think its a flop. 10% market share in one market is pretty impressive for a year and a bit of being out. I'm sure the iPod calculations take into account all of the markets it is sold in, and while they don't add up to much compared to the US market, they do add to it.

And the fact the Zune isn't available in Canada isn't a big deal for me. I buy all of my albums (physical CD's so i can rip them as uncompressed), so i have no need for the marketplace, and there are a number of online retailers that will sell me one.

3% market share in one market == flop. You can play with the numbers and say 10%, or even 100% percent of the market for turd brown mp3 players.

Interesting.

Linux=Flop.

You heard it here, folks, straight from the mouth of El Dingo.

Another brilliant post from PC_Tool.

MAC OS has a 3% market share - sounds like a flop to me (yet all you crazy apple fans will never give up)

Actually the Mac has around a 6% market share.

Linux == free, so it does not matter what share it occupies.

And how long has Apple Computers been around? How long has the Zune been around, ok now moving on...

So because something is free there is no market?

Right, lets take a look at that.

Google seems to be doing quite well most of their products are free, granted they thrive on advertising but still free.

Firefox also free and has a pretty good marketshare as well.

IM clients everyone of them is free and they all have a part of the market, none which matters because they are free.

So now that we have that out of the way

Free = does not matter.

ok, moving on...

apples to oranges comparison, but you knew that. Your troll-fu is weaksauce

Tell that to Apple. They keep chugging with Mac OS.

BTW, 10% is in the HDD player market. That's not playing with any numbers. It's a fair comparison because from launch day until tomorrow, the Zune was always a HDD player.

Zune == $150, so it does not matter what share it occupies.

Wow that was easy. I should have started arguing my opinions like this years ago.

apples to oranges comparison

Not really. You just don't know how to argue against it. Nice try.

roflmao!

Market share is meaningless to Linux now?

Wow. Keep digging. This is good stuff, man.

Your troll-fu is weaksauce

That has got to be one of the lamest cop-outs I've ever seen you use.

...and you've been using it a lot lately.

lmao...

3% = flop, but 6% = roaring success.

Excellent. Thank you. This stuff is pure gold.

Hell, how old are you guys? 12??

Ouch, the stupid, it burns!

ouch, you are really pathetic

That is off the hook. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

ok PC_Troll, i will bite on this weak troll post.

You are comparing things that cost money with something that does not. M$ Windoze and Mac OSX cost money. Linux does not.

Google Search, MSN Search (if you can even call it that), Yahoo, Ask, etc... all are free.

IM clients....all are free

Web Browsers....Firefox, IE....all are free.

I know the post is a troll post so it does not matter how much of a fool i make of the poster. or you. that is why i chose to not respond.

who said it was a "roaring success"?

Typical M$ drone...just does not get it.

Another M$ drone troll. see my post above nubcakes.

Great. They're free. Tell Google their market share doesn't matter.

Tell firefox.

Good luck with that.

*shakes head*

Finally updated it, eh?

"**** with me and I'll **** back"

So...

Point out what a complete moron you are and you'll prove it? You've done a damned good job of it so far.

I especially love the bit about me following you around the forums. Talk about a pot-kettle issue.

You really have no clue what a troll is, A troll is when you bring up something that has nothing to do with the topic. What you do in every thread mention Xbox360 because it says MS on it.

You brought up marketshare, so in turn to compare your flawed logic I brought in another free market that does have a percentage of the market.

It may not have been perfect but a troll, it was not, as it stayed on the topic of marketshare and doesn't go out of its way to insult said user.

Seriously, my daughter is 3 and has more maturity then you.

You are a very sad person.

Heh..

El Dingo thinks it's funny.

Now there's a newsflash...

Oh, I get it.

According to you, marketshare for a free product is meaningless.

But the example organizations/products you give below are *very* concerned about marketshare.

What you utterly fail to understand is that while your views may be valid in your world-view, it is, thankfully, not one shared by the organizations you support or the vast majority of consumers.

But being the typical troll, you'll just tell me I don't get it again, insult me, or better yet, ignore this post completely.

woo....the suspense is killing me...

again, you demonstrate your total lack of reading comprehension.

Free in and of itself does not mean market share does non matter. No where in my post did it say that.

pitdingo
Linux == free, so it does not matter what share it occupies.

You state because Linux is free, it's market share does not matter.

You offer no other conditions.

You are either incapable of making a correct statement or you just lied because, as written, by you, that is *exactly* what you said.

My reading comprehension is fine. Your ability to make a point without making a complete jackass out of yourself on the other hand...

You must have forgotten what you wrote...

here's a refresh...

By pitdingo posted Oct 1, 2007 - 6:26 PM

Linux == free, so it does not matter what share it occupies.

10 percent share after only one year is pretty darned good to me.

typical M$ drone troll. Care to show the rest of the context...you know the thread of discussion?

But if you did, you would illustrate your own stupidity. You fail. try again M$ drone.

No, that pretty much covers it.

You offer no conditions other than the fact that it is free for it's disregard of marketshare, in that specific post, or any any context (other than your current backpedaling).

So...you resort to your typical "M$ drone" cop-out BS. Get some new material or stop talking about that which you obviously know *nothing* about.

By pitdingo

posted Oct 2, 2007 - 12:57 PM

again, you demonstrate your total lack of reading comprehension.

Free in and of itself does not mean market share does non matter. Nowhere in my post did it say that.
Score: 0
By terminalx

edited Oct 2, 2007 - 2:59 PM

You must have forgotten what you wrote...

here's a refresh...

By pitdingo posted Oct 1, 2007 - 6:26 PM

Linux == free, so it does not matter what share it occupies.
Score: 0
By pitdingo

posted Oct 2, 2007 - 10:17 PM

typical M$ drone troll. Care to show the rest of the context...you know the thread of discussion?

But if you did, you would illustrate your own stupidity. You fail. try again M$ drone.

Care to comment?

I hope they keep the turd brown color.

I hope your keep your turd brown belt. Oh, and your turd brown shoes, your turd brown furniture, your turd brown wood...

See? It's really not that funny after the first use of the joke. It gets old pretty fast, actually.

I think the turd brown Zune is funny all the time. What kind of clueless f*** would approve of such a horrible color for a mp3 player?

Oh yeah...M$. Perhaps that is why they don't put their name on it.

The brown color actually sold pretty well, mainly business minded individuals bought them.

Same people who buy brown pants, brown shoes, brown belts.

MS won't be able to do it on BRUTE FORCE (marketing and b***sh*t) unless they have a really nice product, something cooler and cheaper. It all resumes to the fact that nowadays "iPod" is THE name of the portable music player gadget for mostly every person out there. Maybe Zune 3 will have a chance if it is re-visioned.

How about we actually wait to see what Zune 2 looks like, before jumping to 3?

does it really matter? Anything with the Zune name attached to it will be a failure. Y

You know why? M$ does not get it; they have no idea how to compete.

It would help if they sold it outside the US. Never seen one in Canada, and I remember hearing they didn't sell any in Europe. Could be wrong on that last one - anyone?

I have never seen one in the USA either. I see tons of iPods and iPhones, and a few San Disk and Creative players. Never a Zune though.

They'd have to let you out, first. :p

hey, i am being 100% honest. I am awaiting my first sighting...

I guess there's a first time for everything. :p

I have actually never seen anyone with an iphone.

Never launched outside North America.

The reason? Only the dumbest redneck would buy a Zune, and then only out of patriotism.

Outside North America, the Zune would have sunk without a trace.

Have you seen one outside of a store?

Yes, I own one, as do both of my parents, and 3 of my coworkers.

And you live where, Kentucky?

Another Zune owner right here.

I'll admit, I've never seen anyone else with one, but that doesn't mean anything. I never saw anyone who owned my previous MP3 player either: the Creative Zen Xtra 40GB.

Seriously, have you even met everyone? Didn't think so. So how did you ask them all if they bought a Zune?

Hell, I've never seen one *inside* a store. I guess that means they don't exist...

Either that, or I just haven't been looking.

But you...

You see all, hear all, and know all, right?

*laughing*

Sorry, I couldn't type that with a straight face.

I've seen one, no, two. (He lost it and had to buy another. He did the same with his iPod. Beginning to be a habit, I believe))

You see all, hear all, and know all, right?

OMG Pit is the all powerful OZ? It all makes sense now...

"Another Zune owner right here."

pity you.

If no one knew MS was behind it I believe it would be getting less flack, the device itself is great and works like it should.

Yes, it is a bit bigger but not much bigger then the 30 gig ipod.

One thing that's a lot bigger: the screen.

They need to come up with kick a** name. If they can't, just borrow like Apple from HTC Touch.

Of course, marketing, marketing, marketing. You have so much cash, spend them on marketing. Good marketing sell products, even if they are trashes.

3% market share sucks. But...competition is good. Still don't own a portable music player (unless you count the Cd walkman I've had since the 80's and not used since well, the 80's)

I just wish they'd bought Cowon so those great players could have some decent advertising behind them.

It's not really 3%, it's the 10% that the article said above due to them not being in the Flash market.

Tuesday it's officially 3%.

/NitPicking

While the Zune has managed to grab a 10 percent share of the HDD player segment, overall that has amounted to about a 3 percent share of the market in general.

It's 3% of the total market, 10% of the HDD market. Sorry, I'll be more specific next time. :p

Most people mention what these players can do, but few mention sound quality, which seems strange to me, as people buy mp3/mp4 players to listen to. At the moment Sony and Creative rule the roost, in my opinion, but if Zune 2 beat them in the sound quality stakes and went loud enough, Id buy it,MS or not.

as people buy mp3/mp4 players to listen to.

I'm really curious to hear what the rest of the people buy them for...

so we can put linux and S/NES emulators/roms on it..duh

lol

Right On!

Thats probably what I would try to do if i owned one.

To wear like jewelry. Well, most iPod owners anyway... It's just like everything else Apple makes: a white fashion statement/status symbol.

that's racist!

/not really
//felt appropriate
///Jesse Jackson 08?

////Jackson 09 (those running in 08 are "acting white")

What a joke! I have never seen so much BS in all my time online. Which started in the 2400 baud world. We all need Microsoft, as we all need Apple. We as in computer/internet people. The internet would never be what it is today without either of those companies. And I remeber Bill Gates saying what he wanted for the world when it came to PC's many years ago. And I see his vision coming to life. He said about having people join together online for fun, gaming and just talking. As you are all doing now. He said about computer controlled homes, cars, planes, everyday items and the home PC (media center). All long before it happened. And he had the vision. Said it in plain old english way back when. Whats more is that fact that he has seen to it that MS passes along more then 500 million in help every year to the needy. Bet you never hear about that. And they do not have to do this, so don't go down the, "It costs them nothing." road. It does, $500 million plus per year. And they do not use that point to sell you any of the products they have as others with red colored things might do. They just do it!
I know Steve Jobs did not follow this idea as Bill did and that helped them break apart. So I suggest that we need both Microsoft and Apple. Give it up about this is better or worse.(BS talk) I go with what i think is best for me at the time. And I may change my mind at any time because I can. That is what the internet is all about. The internet helps us all to be informed, as you all know. I know about the other OS's I did not mention. Tough! How long do you want this comment. Simple example, IPhone users that bought right away are getting dumped every time they turn around with a newer better cheaper version. Each of which is not the same size as the one before. Just as the IPods are doing. And I will go on to say that Zune ver.1 will be upgradable as microsoft has done in the past for thier products. Ver 2 is to be thinner with what is needed to naturally make it better. But there are not more than one size in general (shuffle/nano/classic/touch) Not to leave out the IPhone/ITV! Now there is another topic! Zune looks much simpler to me at this time. And given MS's track record they have me leaning towards them. Yes my 360 died and got sent in. But I had no problems at all. Cost me nothing other than some time without it and got everything for free with some extras to say sorry. I wait to see the day that another manufactures even comes close tothe service and help I got from MS. I am sure MS did not do this on purpose. So some things happen and we all move on. Even with all this happening Halo 3 has not only broke all the entertainment records but has at this time doubled the 360 sales! Who would have thought!!! And I have never seen Halo 3 below 650,000 members yet! And that is a FACT. Maybe I am on at only good times??? Never had screen lag or conection problems. Great work Bungie!(you old MAC game programers you)Yes, Bungie made great games very simular to Halo for the MAC only, way back when.
Don't go there, as an example, Steve dropped the price of new IPhones by $200.00. Then he found out how pissed everyone was that bought right away and offered a $100.00 spending spree. Great! Still out a 'C' note for buying early! And you can not upgrade your IPod or spend your money anywhere but at Istore, other than to download something which cost more money. What a scheme!

All said and done I am looking into a zune and/or a IPod NANO for my daughter. I will look over the facts as best I can and do what I think is right. As you all should do! FACTS, not what you say in this site. What BS!!!

PS I have a SONY NetMan. Never really did anything for me. Wasted a bit of change on that. And I always buy creative sound cards for my PC's and my customers.