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Microsoft Closes Activation Loophole

By Nate Mook and David Worthington, BetaNews

February 24, 2005, 8:05 PM

Microsoft is closing a loophole that enabled unscrupulous resellers to use Windows XP product keys that were stolen from large OEMs. The result: customers who purchase Windows on a new PC may not be able to reinstall their operating system without first calling Microsoft.

The problem lies in the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels on PCs, which often contain unused unique product keys because OEMs preinstall Windows and bypass product activation.

These keys could easily be copied and sold by a smaller computer dealer complete with a counterfeit COA. Because the product key was never actually used by an end-user, a customer would have no trouble activating Windows via the Internet and never know the difference.

But Microsoft plans to change all this. Starting February 28, Microsoft will indefinitely begin to disable Internet product activation on OEM keys used by the top 20 worldwide PC makers.

If a customer attempts to activate Windows XP with an OEM key from a COA, they will be directed to call customer support specialists to obtain an override code - provided they can prove that their copy is legitimate by answering a series of questions.

Jupiter Research senior analyst Joe Wilcox said the change shouldn't affect many PC buyers. "Seeing as how the typical OEM would normally preactivate Windows XP, most legitimate users shouldn't have much need to go through the activation process," noted Wilcox.

"But it would be possible for someone to lift a COA number from, say, a PC on display at a local store and activate a OEM copy of Windows on another computer. Similarly, a smaller dealer could reuse the same key on multiple PCs of the same configuration," added Wilcox.

Microsoft expects to expand the Internet product activation ban to all pre-activated Windows PCs in the next quarter.

Other recent actions that Microsoft has taken against piracy include the Windows Genuine Advantage program, in which Windows users must verify their license in order to access Windows Update and the Microsoft Download Center. Incentives, such as special downloads and discounts on Microsoft products, are offered to users with legitimate licenses. Even non-legit users, however, will continue to receive critical updates to Windows.

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By samsmartguy

posted Jun 23, 2008 - 9:31 AM

In my opinion all these activation keys complicate installation process.
Hi, My name is Sam, and my site is http://samsmartguy.50webs.com/

Score: 0

By ENESPIRITUYENVERDAD1

edited Jun 16, 2008 - 3:25 PM

I have two legitimate copies of microsoft windows xp and professional xp,they both came with two separate computers that i do not own any longer,also i dont have a registration key to both of them and i would like to use these systems on another pc. what can i do to activate them? thank you LORAIN,OH. USA

Score: 0

By Eric Lee Elliott

edited Jun 14, 2008 - 4:55 PM

Microsoft can't ever do enough with WGA to get me to resume use of Windiz. Vista converted me to Linux with many blue screens of death.
Now I just use my computers, just use them, not waste time & money on virus, trojan, forced software upgrades & Microsoft supported adwares.
If Linux had a strong replacement for DeLorme Street Atlas, it would be complete for me. Every other software I need is free, auto-installed by Linux Kubuntu.
If Kubuntu cost $500 tomorrow, I would pay it for freedom from M$ crashes, infections & frustrations.

Score: 0

By mrbill1

edited Jun 11, 2008 - 12:16 AM

i hope iam not shooting in the dark. hoping some one can help me with this problem...... every time i loggeg on to the internet useing internet explorer , and start playing the game i get this message on that internet had performed a illegal operation and they give a lot of figures that i dont,understand and they say this computr will be shut down and then i looseevery thing i have been doing i called cox and they say itnot there problem its explorers problem can use some help on this you can e mail me easygoing1cox.net

Score: 0

By Shined

edited Jan 27, 2008 - 7:18 AM

I am a Tech and a software developer at present I am having a battle with MS trying to get my Registration Key unlocked I phoned in an activation only to suffer another problem which then rendered my system to a state where I needed to re-install XP again. I also test hardware for individuals on a regular basis and have suffered a miriad of problems with the XP product activation scheme.
Needless to say I'm getting very cheesed with MS's attitude that you may have paid for it now proove you own it.
Because I use my system to test hardware belonging to others I end up with being periodicly hit with this activation rubbish.
I complained to the activation centre who told me to E-Mail support @ ms which i did and after 5 E-Mails over the period of a day I ended up being told to call firstly a 888 number which is not accessible in my country and then being told to ring the local number in my country for Microsoft and getting them to sort it.
The most annoying aspect of this is it all had to happen on a weekend AGAIN and left me unable to do what I need to do.
I am now going to buy an Apple Mac as although it may be just another Intel box at least they support thier products and you can get hold of someone who can get things DONE.
Well done MS youve p!ssed of a developer into jumping to another platform.
Thats realy SMART not.

Score: 0

By TheMongKey

edited Jan 11, 2008 - 6:01 AM

This situation is a direct result of Microsoft's idiotic insistence that the product key must be displayed on the PC case for all to see. This is stupid. Something so valuable should be kept in a safe where it belongs, out of sight where it cannot be abused/copied/stolen etc.

Score: 0

By whassup?

edited Jun 11, 2007 - 2:09 PM

I have to rebrick pc's often & I use a copy of XP sp2 from another pc to do that. For various reasons I don't have media for every pc owned by the company. For quite a while now (years even) I have used this single cd to quickly get pc's back online & then call Microsoft for validation-recently though this method no longer works & the validation people insist I have to re-order media for any pc I might have to rebrick. This would be costly for my company & we already did buy the right to the software b/c we have a valid coa on the box.

This seems crazy to me b/c every pc I have done this to has had a legit COA sticker-it would be great if the COA product key would work in the windows validation boxes but they don't. -can anyone shed some light?

Score: 0

By roukie

edited May 25, 2007 - 1:08 AM

Hi. Cool design. Keep up the good.
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Thank you!

Score: 0

By ease

posted Feb 16, 2007 - 2:56 AM

I Install MS Office 2007 Beta 3 from the Digit magzine. Iafter using for sometimes now all my documents (2007) was not opened by 2003 version. please suggest!!!

Score: 0

By joe_bud_king

posted Mar 6, 2007 - 11:02 PM

Microsoft Office 2007 has a backward compatability. You need to make sure that you are saving the project as a a 97-2003 Document, this feature is located in the "Save As" option. When you want to save it so that you may view this document in any format, from Notepad to Wordpad to Word or Powerpoint, or ANY other Office program, type in the name you want to give your document, and below that, in the "Save As Type", you will find that you can save it any way you like!

Score: 0

By jessecarlton

edited Jan 15, 2007 - 10:24 PM

Dear Microsoft,
You create a lot of waste of time and efforts from me from saturday 13 of jan. till this day:I cannot re-Activate my XP Home on my PC after clean re-install it because of a problem from a financial company .I thought it would be safer to format and re-install XP to get rid of all possible vulnerabilities created by that company and for the purpose of quick Activation over the Internet I got connected to my ISP all the while . RESULTS: more than 100 malwares got into my PC . Need to re-format my hard drives many times to delete those malwares .After re-install I couldn't no longer Activate XP Home YOU ( I know now it was YOUR company ) At that time I suspected it was the work of the hackers !!
I understand fully that your firm has to root out piracy (prevalent in Korea)BUT you are creating HELL to legitimate buyers of your XP Home .Now I have to activate my XP Home via phone . I am in Seoul with a XP Home [english version] will I be speaking to somebody in Korea or in the US and who will pay for the phone bill if it's from the US ?
I have no problem with this PC because it's a XP Professional it's with my other PC.
Please, you have cause enough 'sufferings' for an old man [65].Please give me a quick answer so one can still trust in a HONEST Microsoft.
Waiting for your answer before re-Activating my XP Home .I have around 27-29 days left before the activating process end .
.A customer who try to trust in Microsoft.
Steve.

Score: 0

By Foren

edited Feb 5, 2007 - 2:35 AM

From what I understand you can run xp repair from your copy of xp. Somewhere in there you can follow on screen promts to call MS with a toll free number.

At that point they will ask you questions.
Then give you a over ride code number and your good to go.

Im not sure how it all works just reading up ahead before I upgrade my motherboard and processor and this is what I have learned so far.

Score: 0

By highplainsthumper

edited Apr 17, 2007 - 7:20 AM

There are no toll free numbers to US for someone living in Korea. Those toll free numbers are international long distance calls.

Solution? Ubuntu Linux. No more phoning home.

--
HPT

Score: 0

By pams

edited Dec 31, 2006 - 5:53 AM

Want to activate office 2007 Beta.
product key: TT3M8-H3469-V89G6-8FWK7-D3Q9Q

Score: 0

By ease

edited Feb 16, 2007 - 2:21 AM

This Beta2 activation no. TT3M8-H3469-V89G6-8FWK7-D3Q9Q was not totally work. It says, "Your activation period had been expired"

So, what to do

Score: 0

By drawal

edited Oct 13, 2006 - 5:05 PM

My windows xp crashed and I reinstalled the windows but the same product key behind the laptop didnot worked. How to solve this problem.
Its urgent for me. What can i do??

Score: 0

By jimobleft

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 11:12 PM

I just bought a new laptop, but didn't buy the microsoft office because I already have a copy...will the new XP security have an effect on me installing my old copy of microsoft office if it will not be a legit copy (I have used it many times on all of my computers)?

Score: 0

By quavo

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 1:13 PM

yea it will work

Score: 0

By samiahmed

edited Aug 19, 2006 - 3:09 AM

353798002838193

Score: 0

By quavo

edited Aug 18, 2006 - 4:28 PM

activating windows can not be stop.There is a file about 32 kb long that will by pass the 30 day keys and automaticly give permission to update software.This file is working and does activate windows with no problem at all and remove key from the bottom of screen for good.So all you have to do is no how to make software and you can by pass it

Score: 0

By DaddyCallie

edited Oct 18, 2006 - 9:44 AM

I would very much appreciate if someone out there came to my rescue by providing "win xp activation kill" so that I'm not bothered by it?

Score: 0

By koolkidd

posted Aug 18, 2006 - 2:43 AM

Hey Guys, i'm a PC technician and would love to know if i can purchase one copy of microsoft windows and use it on multiple computers?. I await youre speedy response. Kevin

Score: 0

By quavo

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 1:15 PM

you can use it at your own risk but it will install just don't activate. if you have to activate use the software refenced above

Score: 0

By koolkidd

edited Aug 18, 2006 - 2:08 AM

I am a computer technician and I would like to know if you can buy one original copy of Windows OS and use it on multiple computers? Please respond as soon as possible. Thank You

Score: 0

By greybeard43

edited Aug 6, 2006 - 9:41 PM

I purchased a new computer pre-loaded with xp software about a year ago. Last week when I attempted to perform a microsoft update I received a message that my software was not "geninue microsoft". In reading it indicated that if authenication was not completed I may not be able to use my new computer. I returned my computer to the dealer where purchased and asked to have the problem repaired.
For this authenication problem I was charged $150. I believe that the problem is between the holder of the multiple use licensee and microsoft. Instead the dealer where I purchased the computer told me that I would have to pay $150 to fix this problem. When purchased my expectation was that I had geninue microsoft xp software on the computer. This should not be my problem but rather a problem between the dealer and microsoft. Is this a correct assumption on my part?

Score: 0

By quavo

posted Aug 18, 2006 - 4:31 PM

your correct you should have told him you where going to contact microsoft .That was the dealer and microsoft problem.

Score: 0

By johnkil

edited Jun 3, 2006 - 7:05 AM

I was trying to activate my windows XP professional and I dowload the incupdate.setup , I am trying to find my key product updates , But unfortunatly did find , Please advice us what can I do ?

Score: 0

By msi4mfr

edited Jun 13, 2006 - 1:05 AM

Search for Keyfinder. The latest version give you Office, as well as the XP key installed. It will allow you to save the info or print it.

Score: 0

By jimobleft

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 11:10 PM

I just bought a new laptop, but didn't buy the microsoft office because I already have a copy...will the new XP security have an effect on me installing my old copy of microsoft office if it will not be a legit copy (I have used it many times on all of my computers)?

Score: 0

By Insight124

edited May 23, 2006 - 2:37 PM

I tried that Magical Jelly Bean, Pest Patrol found something happen when I used it and stopped it, something about sending information and IRC, its whatever it is, if its harmless it is, if its bad it is. I found other programs that did as good or better job. I also found that someone made a short software program that allows any rejected person trying to activate there windows, accepted, any time they need it, my concern is would it install something dangerous to my security.

Score: 0

By quavo

posted Aug 18, 2006 - 4:32 PM

that file is called merlin's magic it works

Score: 0

By nar321

edited May 5, 2006 - 5:26 PM

Microsoft strikes again!

Score: 0

By BillWeidner

edited Apr 25, 2006 - 2:15 PM

I want to install a bigger hard drive in my Dell Laptop 8600. I have my original Office Small Business Edition 2003 but threw away the case with the 15 digit codes. How do I retreive these codes. Can I deinstall and get them? Dell and Microsoft both say not their issue. Can you help?

Score: 0

By nar321

posted May 5, 2006 - 10:31 PM

Try a google search for "Magical Jelly Beans" or something like that.If still available it gives you the product codes and only that.Prehaps even Product activation codes might turn up something useful if searched for.

Score: 0

By Insight124

edited May 23, 2006 - 2:26 PM

I think its great that Microsoft needs to protect there software, problem is I pay over $200 for there software, I should be allowed to use it as many times as I feel like, on just one Computer or on several Computers, if I paid extra to do it, its not stolen or borrowed. Because like DVD, CD music, and Video and Audio tape, I would not copy it and sell it to someone. What strange thing next, if I buy a DVD Movie and need to see it again, do I need to buy it again.

What next over $200 for every fresh install.

I paid for this software its real software from Microsoft, it has a key with it.

Someone can download or find some way to use it without paying for it, as often as they feel-like, never pay for it while you and I must pay for every Computer its used on.

I found I can buy it, install it, then forget it, then try to activate it 30 days later, to try to use it, it tells me to activate, if I can't get on the Internet to do it, why force me to do it, with no choices or ability to do it. The solution is simple just erase and start over. I just thought its silly that it expected something I could not do.

With fresh install I did not add the drivers yet, good thing there is skip the online register on fresh install I would not finish.

Some times I have problems and I must erase and fresh install, for $200 you would think the CD ROM would be better material, what a severe rumble, I have other much less expensive CD ROMs running at high speed doing better than that.

If I need to replace parts or test different parts: Hard Drive, Optical Drive, RAM, and other parts, if I try to activate it, I'm denied as if I used it too many times on different Computers.

To telephone them about Windows Activation, this large group of numbers, you can't type in from your computer and get a response or use the telephone, to touch tone type it in, or is it just spoken, how many hours would that take every time your not accepted.

Score: 0

By sissoin

edited Apr 22, 2006 - 3:38 PM

well what can i say microsoft also provides the coustmers Free Technical support! on any issue or concern regarding microsoft sofwares microsoft is doing all it can to chanelise the product activation so that coustmers feel easy to activate the product.and u also have a option to purchase just a copy of additional license for the same copy of software which u have already purchased !

Score: 0

By zoolander

posted Feb 14, 2006 - 6:34 AM

After installing Service Pack 2, the “Activate Windows” link on my Start menu disappeared. Consequently, I am unable to update Windows and obtain critical updates. How do I re-acquire the “Activate Windows” link without a full re-installation of Windows?

Score: 0

By Insight124

edited Feb 25, 2006 - 8:39 AM

If this helps? In WinXP: Left click, Start(Lower left corner), then, All Programs(Lower left corner), then move mouse to, Accessories, then System Tools, its on the top of the list.

Score: 0

By Chief Scientific Officer

edited Oct 28, 2005 - 9:51 AM

I have been Involved in the evolution of software since the use of Fortran,Unix,ATT&Berkley versions and the products the illustrious thief from Redmond,Wa. borrowed as a consultant to IBM.

Dos/Windows and every other string of code he could pirate ,lay claim to,alter,make suttle changes to and so on.

Notice,that he,Bill and his intillectual team of lawyers regard reverse engineering to be an illegal act. Maybe when he was up to stealing or recompiling others code he had a minor lapse of memory or a premature senior moment with a small ischemic area around certain biological neural networks, that govern ones thought processes and contributed to a delusional or outright thought of self innovation on his behalf.

Of course this action was by design and the Big Boy or Challenger has threatened others to acts of liability if they do the same. He threatens civil action in his written and electronic documentation if Microsoft so desires. Bill has created a mammoth shell to hide behind and threaten others with. He is the keeper of the software keys and uses his artificial intelligence server banks to determine the authenticity of "your leased keys" to your operating system , other software, electronic equipment, competetive software and hardware devices that you might posess including any and all personal and other information gathering schemes that he can use without recourse by the skin if his teeth.

This new mandatory download that is currently in use is illegal in my opinion and should be challenged by a civil class action against Him and his Shell Microsoft. The class action should be brought by all authentic holders of Microsoft Software that his actions have impacted, either through economic or productive loss.

A group of the finest lawyers with extensive backgrounds in Electronics and Physics should be compiled from various world class law firms and as David did to Goliath get him where it hurts him the most. His wallet! I urge all to help in the development of Linux and other open source and cross platform software and security language for the advancement of the science and technology of computer innovation.

Microsoft under law does not have unfettered rights to upload or down load from your private drive or machine, Network or Raid System without invading your privacy rights.It may say so but this company lost big to Sun ,lost big in the EU and could loose big time here if tried in a competent court of jurisdiction, comprised of a competent panel of judges who understand the technical issues rather than a bunch of politically appointed hacks.

Someone must get the ball rolling against this monopoly.

They the bean counters,along with the US Congress sanctioned the destruction of AT&T, The Bell System.Western Electric, sent jobs overseas under and by the pressure of Lobbyists, denied the average American the right to remain in the middle class without struggle. Gave xxxholes like Bill huge tax breaks and all the other analogs with the likes of him.

World Economy? What do you mean? You mean cheap,cheaper and cheapest labor they can find in second and third world countries, while our own people sit in silence and suffer. You, each and every one of you technocrats like me can make a difference.

Retaining garbage like this and liking it is up to you!

Score: 0

By steveriley26

edited Oct 1, 2005 - 4:27 PM

i have downloaded a copy of microsoft office xp from warez. i need a product key number to activate it though. how do i get one of these?

Score: 0

By Notageek

edited Aug 3, 2005 - 9:35 PM

All this debate over "pirating" is really Bill Gates crying foul when he is "robbed" in the same manner in which he procured all his software. Prior to the age of Microsoft all software was free and unregulated, no one owned it. Bill Gates took advantage of the situation and used loopholes in the law to copyright and take what was free and extort money from the average person. He didn't write any new programs...everything he claims as his was someones elses work he simply took it and if anyone said anything about it he burried them under legitigation until they where broke. So in my humble opinion anyone using "illegal" OS software is merely maintaining the way it was, and if Microsoft cries then the reply should be "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Microsoft has a legalized monopoly and I for don't give much credance to the pot calling the kettle black. this whole "copyright" thing is getting out of hand, it's gotten to the point where under law if I record a movie I can be prosecuted wheather I make money or not. Whats next if a person has tapes of CD's or DVD's and they replace the stereo, tv or car they must buy all new or pay of new liecensing fees? The presedent has been set.

Score: 0

By sysadmin

edited Jul 30, 2005 - 7:19 AM

Want to purchase Microsoft Windows XP Home Upgrade with SP2 - Retail (is activation require on this version..) reply meee

Score: 0

By sissoin

edited Apr 23, 2006 - 9:40 AM

yes sir activation will be required! and i,m from the MSPA DEPARTMENT!

Score: 0

By azauk

edited Aug 25, 2005 - 10:11 AM

I think it is...

But has microsoft thought what would happen if, for example, a legitimate person buys a legitimate un-activated copy of win xp, who HAS NOT GOT AN INTERNET CONNECTION to activate the product?? i know there are some other methods e.g. telephone, mail. but these may not always be practical!! mail can take time and telephone calls can cost a lot of money (especially when they put you on hold and go for a coffe break).

Score: 0

By sissoin

posted Apr 23, 2006 - 10:07 AM

Hi there well on this point what can i say well no coustmer representative go for a tea or a coffe break microsoft has product activation 24*7 365 days a year for all coustmers and normally it doesnt takes more then 3 min to get ur product activated ! and about "going for coffe breaks" well then ur not aware how ITES industry workS ,rules are very stringent up here for a representative they cannot go or place a call on hold for more then a minute they all have watchdogs over their heads to ensure quality sir so please re-think and MICROSOFT has A TOLL FREE NO so no one has to worry about phone bills, this no. always comes up in actiation wizard including the toll no.. so coustmer always has a choice! THANKS!

Score: 0

By barefootsteve

edited Jun 23, 2005 - 1:38 PM

I bought an audio recording computer from Sweetwater.(Creation Station Pro) $2500. Phone product activation WAS NOT AN OPTION! The machine insisted on DSL or LAN via 2 radio buttons for product activation.

As tech support took hours to get back to me, I packed the machine up and sent it back.

Hassle = lost sale. Get the message?

Score: 0

By brytonic

edited Mar 7, 2005 - 12:30 PM

This is an exerpt from...

http://netsecurity.about...xp/qt/aaqtwinxp0829.htm

Users who reformat their hard drive and perform a clean installation of the operating system will find that they need to reactivate the product. But, as long as the new installation is on the same system and there won't be any hardware changes it is possible to transfer the existing product activation and skip having to go through the product activation process again. Follow the steps below to save the activation status information and restore it once your system is rebuilt:

Double-click My Computer
Double-click on the "C" drive
Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder")
Find the files "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" and copy them to a safe location. You can copy them on a floppy drive or burn it onto a CD or DVD.
After you have reinstalled Windows XP on your reformatted hard drive, click "No" when asked if you want to go ahead and go through the activation process
Reboot your computer into SafeMode (you can either press F8 as Windows is booting up to see the Windows Advanced Options menu and select SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Minimal or follow the instructions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode
Double-click My Computer
Double-click on the "C" drive
Go to the C:\Windows\System32 folder (you may have to click on the link that says "Show The contents of this folder")
Find the file "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" (if it exists) and rename them to "wpadbl.new" and "wpabak.new"
Copy your original "wpa.dbl" and "wpa.bak" files from your floppy disk, CD or DVD into the C:\Windows\System32 folder
Restart your system (if you followed the directions in Starting Windows XP in SafeMode you may need to go back into MSCONFIG to turn off booting into SafeMode)

Voila! Your Windows XP operating system is now reinstalled on your reformatted hard drive and you are all activated without having to actually go through the product activation process!

Score: 0

By Pegusis2

posted Mar 1, 2005 - 8:52 AM

First time I seen XP run... my first thought was Oh My God - It's Fisher Price! XP Home has to be one of the worst O/S's I've ever had the pleasure of messing with, if you want a good solid foundation on your computer use Windows 2000 Pro or 2000 Server.

Score: 0

By o_pontios

posted Mar 1, 2005 - 2:08 AM

Oh get off it all of you!!

There is no such thing as perfect software or bug free software, etc.

Microsoft has every right to protect its property. You don't like that then dont use it.

Likewise if you dont like *nix or mac os or whatever dont use that either.

Score: 0

By SaCo

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 10:40 PM

bah it will work well for a while but what will stop some lil german,russian,latin american kids frm cracking it and releaseing ther lil product over the net few months? weeks? days? we dont know but i dont care i dont use windows a lot just fer a bit o counter strikin when at me bros house but good job 2
ye O beast of redmond ..im happy with my Slackware and my SuSe...hey now..i got Gmail invites tell me where ya saw me postin mrfrostbite@gmail.com

see sometimes it good 2 read even though ye think thier stupid

Score: 0

By wadedesk

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 9:07 AM

I see a great amount of debate on the ethics of using software, but do not see any comments on what appears to be Microsoft's end-game. I read the other day Microsoft's End-Of-Life cycle for Windows XP is December 2006. This means that very shortly after the next version of Windows is released people will need to upgrade to have a supported product. Let's face it ... Windows XP is a very stable product and there will be very little reason for most people to upgrade unless they "forced" into it. The auto industry tried building low quality product a number of years ago so that people would have to upgrade. That did not work because of competition. I'm glad that Linux is around, because I won't be paying MS over $1,000 to upgrade like I did when Windows XP and Office XP was released. Buy a legal copy of Red Hat 9 one Bay for under $25 and enjoy!

Score: 0

By yohimbe9

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 3:22 PM

and remember, you don't have to upgrade office and windows and the same time. office XP mainstream support (aka, "help! something's wrong" support) ends in the middle of 2006. but extended support which includes free security updates end in 2011. 2011!!!, can you believe that!

windows xp mainstream support ends 2006, so if you break it after that they're not going to help you unless you pay. but once again, the extended support ends in 2011. and actually these dates are the minimum. the support site says that mainstream will end 2 years after the next version ships, and extended will be 5 years after that.

Score: 0

By txbetaman2

edited Feb 27, 2005 - 12:58 PM

I remember when Apple tried to set the "Hook" when the gave schools free computers, and they did not gain the market share as GenerationX matures are major buyers. OS X has been a poke in MS's side in the same way that linux is. Linux is not the cure all. Can you prove to me that in "open source" that there are no back doors?
I could not in good faith give a Dr.'s Office Linux because there is no accoutabilty for Security other than someone's word. You may respond "Buy a Distribution" but again the 2 words OPEN SOURCE appear. A known UNIX provider such as SUN is the only sorce of controled software. Have you priced Solaris lately? Windows is sucha dheahl! IBM takes the position that "Is any OS Secure??" when questioned about Linux.

I think that MS could improve on the security issues if it had the money lost from piracy on all OS's. As far as 2006 being the end of XP support I am a beta tester and have contacts deep within MS and cannot confirm this and actually had a few responce "What?" in a laughing voice.

People were saying that MS would loose customers when the current method was introduced. How can you be so profitable loosing customers?
The jealousy goes on!

Remember MS supports previous of office so the $1000 retrofit in not nessessary unless you want the latest Bells and Whistles. I have a few clients still using NT4 Server internally, no internet,if it is not broke don't fix it!

Score: 0

By Hmartian

edited Sep 21, 2005 - 8:23 AM

"Can you prove to me that in "open source" that there are no back doors?"

No but the source code is there for you to see yourself, and there are thousands of people doing so. The famous saying about bugs and problems being easy given enough eyeballs.

Now with this talk of Russian hackers breaking into Microsoft can you prove to me that there are no backdoors in XP.
How?
Care to phone up and ask for the source?

"I could not in good faith give a Dr.'s Office Linux because there is no accoutabilty for Security other than someone's word."
WRONG not someONEs word, many many people have looked at it for holes, for fun, for learning, for improvements.

Now Mirosoft in comparison is like taking the word of one person. If it blows up, or has holes, or destroys your property etc etc. If i remember rightly your rights are defined in the EULA, what are they? "The price of the software"? or "US$5"
(Have you read an EULA lately, some are quite amusing, Yahoo toolbar is not allowed to be used in a nuclear powerplant and people on the designated terrorist list can not buy photoshop)

"I think that MS could improve on the security issues if it had the money lost from piracy on all OS's. "

Are you honestly trying to say that MS is short of money? Or that more would help? Yeah. Right. Sure.

As for MS and their code they are afraid to let the world see the quality of their code. Of course the moment they release it, it WILL be judged for all its failures as well as its successes (yes it has both).
Guess they are scared.

Score: 0

By shy_one

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 1:43 AM

I would like to know what a few of the people on here are doing that they have to reinstall windows 3,4,5 times a year that system restore can't fix?

i can addmit i'm no tech head i just know a little above the basics and i can even keep my system running smoothly even though i play with settings and try alpha and beta software and the only time ive had to reinstall is when i atempted dual booting xp and mandrake linux(BIG MISTAKE IF YOU'RE NOT A TECH HEAD LOL)

Score: 0

By ZenWarrior

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 11:07 PM

"Big Brother"

(And, this is the last MS OS system I *ever* buy, although every bit of my MS software has *always* been entirely legal.)

Date posted: 1984

Score: 0

By FreeOS

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 6:32 PM

Linux is quite new still but already we see it taking over in some areas ie, web servers, Base of MacOS X. Linux has some very good ideas and tech, the portage system for gentoo, ppc support, Xbox support...(and so on) And as for ease of use, Linspire! linux does not come any easier to use than that.My main system runs Gentoo and I have never had to re-install it even after 1 year. Yea it was a pain to set up, but now it works like a treat. I even have Gentoo on my Xbox - with little work and no big problems.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 10:55 PM

haven't had to reinstall gentoo in over a year? am I supposed to be floored by that comment or something?

I've had winXP running on this system for over 3 years and I haven't had to reinstall...I think the only two parts of the system that haven't changed in three years are the motherboard and hard drive...

Score: 0

By txbetaman2

edited Feb 26, 2005 - 11:57 AM

Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy!...Could your company?

Activation has errored on the side of the user in the past!

You have to have 3 major hardware changes to require re-activation, ie:CPU, Motherboard,Hard drive, and Video card are the Major Offenders. Go to Technet, the facts are there!

If you re-install and Change no hardware the activation is seamless, just activate. IT MUST BE EXACTLY THE SAME HARDWARE IN THE SAME SLOTS!! Microsoft does keep a record of the hardware hash and installation key.

Microsoft will be verifying thru Windows Update that the hash/key combo is the same as the one registered, if not there is a possability in WU version 6 your machine will be deactivated, at least that is the word in the beta testers arena.
Microsoft is now contacting previous WU Beta tester for V6 via email and questionairs so if you have pirated software think twice!

Microsoft is only protecting it's investments such as any department store does when you walk thru it's E-Tag protector...Illegal search? You still go in though.

In 1976 IBM, DEC and DG started the intelectual protection legislation to protect their assets from other companies STEALING the investments. It is very sad we now have to do this on a indivual level. A THIEF is always a THIEF.
Webster's Definition:
Main Entry: thief
Pronunciation: 'thEf
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural thieves /'thEvz/
Etymology: Middle English theef, from Old English thEof; akin to Old High German diob thief
: one that steals especially stealthily or secretly; also : one who commits theft or larceny

BTW, I am not a Microsoft Employee or rep, just a ETHICAL bussinessman that support what has to be done in TODAYS society to SURVIVE.

Score: 0

By Chief Scientific Officer

edited Oct 24, 2005 - 8:30 AM

I make a personal challenge as to your facts regarding Microsofts Piracy Losses of 3 Billion per annum. Are you clairvoyant or the CFO of Microsoft or maybe you were a former consultant for the Arthur Anderson Accounting Firm. Maybe that is why he the CFO quit. As they say Nero fiddled while Rome Burned and Cows Fly.The tooth fairy visits Bill with his Tarot card reader.

Chief Scientific Officer

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 4:38 PM

"Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy"

How do you define it as a loss? It's not costing them a dime if they weren't gonna buy it anyway.

You are spreading a lot of misinformation. Microsoft doesn't lose a penny, look at their bank accounts. Unless someone is stealing CD's they are not losing.

Score: 0

By jrizznit

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 1:22 AM

"Microsoft looses ~3 billion a year from piracy!...Could your company?"

If my company was Microsoft, yes, my company could "loose" 3 billion a year.

Every business on this planet loses money. It's called "shrink." Every business takes steps to reduce shrink, but they have to take the comfort level of their customers into consideration, or they end up losing more money than if they had done nothing.

For example: Any department store could cut shrink drastically by requiring every customer that walks in the door to sign a waiver stating that the store has the right to strip search them at any time. Why don't they do it? Because it's obvious nobody would shop there when the store across the street doesn't treat its customers like criminals. But what if this is the only department store within a hundred miles? That changes things.

Microsoft finds itself in an unusual position, where it needn't worry about customers' comfort levels quite as much as most other businesses. It's not technically a monopoly, but it IS something like it. We just don't have a word for it yet, because this is different than anything the free market has ever seen.

One company controls the standard platform upon which all software developers who wish to make money must base their software. Yes, other operating systems exist, but they are for nerds. Linux is for nerds. If you use Linux, it's either because you are a nerd, or it's because that's what your employer decided you should use in order to save him money. But most likely you're a nerd. ;-)

Once a true alternative to Windows exists, if ever, you'll see MS "loose" a lot more than 3 billion a year.

Score: 0

By linux4ever

edited Nov 11, 2005 - 3:15 AM

call us linux backers nerds if you wish for there are millions of us out there and we will tear down the bill gates fortune eventually with bills help of course and the help of his pathetic software he tries to pawn off and operating systems, for those that stand beind it thats fine bill gates started as a thief and always will be he looks out for #1 and #1 only , linux based systems are definatly more secure and stable and everyone will eventually be useing some sort of linux in the future... they are gaining software and hardware support all over for other software/hardware companies dont have to follow MS standards...yes i have winxp dont use it often, i love my linux and soon i will no have windows at all just be me my suse and mac osx :)

Score: 0

By wessamfathi

edited Feb 6, 2006 - 8:42 AM

Stop whining about your unreliable system of re-compiled kernels and whole bunches of config-files crap.

Score: 0

By dogandacomputer

posted Feb 28, 2005 - 10:50 AM

call Linux users what ever you like. Linux is a TRUE alternative to Windows. What else is it? Give it time ... you'll be using it ...

Score: 0

By jrizznit

posted Feb 28, 2005 - 11:46 AM

Can the average user go to the store, pick up a Linux distro, install it himself and run every Windows program he owns?

Until we can answer "yes" to that question, and I hope someday we can, MS will rule the planet.

Oh, and also, a TRUE alternative to Windows will not distinguish between filenames based on case. That's just wrong, and you know it. ;-)

Score: 0

By skozombie

edited Jan 16, 2006 - 3:51 AM

Try ubuntu. Worked like that for me. Configured *ALL* my hardware automatically. Like to see XP do that, even with slipstreaming drivers into the install i'm sure it'd still take a bit of configuring.

You can get live CD/DVDs for ubuntu so you don't even need to install it to try it out. Hell, if you ask nicely they'll even send you CDs for free.

As for case sensitivity, thats debatable anyhow. Case sensitivity is a language specific thing, we (english speaking people) only have capital and lower-case which makes it easy to claim that all operating systems should be case insensitive. What about other languages where the same character with different marks (dashed, umlats, accented etc) mean different things. Should they all be treated the same? There's a lot more than just english out there to worry about.

Score: 0

By Viper83181

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 6:37 PM

You know this is all fine and good however there still has been no work on stopping people from downloading a corporate iso of windows xp which requires no activation. I believe it is the only type of windows installation which still doesn't use microsoft's product activation. instead you just a corporate licences (i.e. cd key). the only downside to this that if you ever attempt to call microsoft for tech support and they ask you for the cd key they won't help you as they will identify it as a corporate key...but then again who ever uses their tech support anyways?

Score: 0

By jmagnus

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 4:01 PM

I applaud your attempt to be ethical, especially while in Business, but Ethics is never that easy.
Suppose I buy a new computer from Dell or HP. Microsoft FORCES them to pre-install Windows. There is no way I can avoid paying for it (is that Ethical or just "business today"?). Yes, Dell will sell me the same PC with no OS, but it will actually cost me *more* because that makes it a 'special order' (I pay more for less, is that Ethical or just "business today"?).
Now suppose that I decide not to use that OS and I donate it anonymously to a charity. Will the Charity even be able to activate it? It will depend on whether or not they can convince someone at Microsoft to activate it (is that Ethical or just "business today"?).

At least you seem to know something about how the 'activation' process and "business today" work.
Let us suppose that a computer manufacturer, like Dell, has Inventory Control software. Then they could notify Microsoft of the machine serial number and all the activation information and associate it with a specific serial number or Windows. As a user of this new machine, I could re-activate it over the internet as often as I wish without a single problem and never have to speak to wait on hold.
What Microsoft claims as the reason for stopping the automatic activation is that when they sell a specific serial number of Windows that they do not realize that it is being installed on completely different hardware. This is *not* good business. It is especially bad for a company that writes Databases to claim that they are unable to track a serial number. This implies that Microsoft is not aware of even simple Inventory Control practices and probably should not be in business. What else have they 'lost'?
Since they cannot track what they do sell, how can they come up with numbers for what they do not sell? Sounds like Enron to me.
I challenge you that dealing with such a business may be unethical itself becasue you help to perpetuate the poor business practices that are probably the real reason behind this move and that have landed Microsoft in so many court cases (which they usually lose).

Score: 0

By txbetaman2

edited Feb 26, 2005 - 4:41 PM

What you say is true, "Loss of Control" is the activation issue. Microsoft outsources most product activation and once that happens you loose the integreaty of internal audits, uploads beeing lost and all the other shortcomings of outsourceing. I am a "Subscriber" to MSDN. After a few issues I was fast to find out that this was outsourced itself. I personally despise outsourcing to relieve companies of liabilites that might result if they do it themself, not the fact that we are giving jobs away.

Actually, pre activation is against MS own agreement with the System Builder Program. Puting tools in such as audit mode to install drivers and other pre-bundled software enforces that posture.
The sad part is that MS optioned to allow big dollar sales , Dell, Gateway, Hp and other system intergrateror to circumvent the rules that should have applied to ALL system builders, and now we all pay. Maybe the ACLU should represent small/minority businesses in a class action tort . :-)
According to my contact a MS only the keys which are bulk OEM will require call in activation. Keys are encoded as to which version they are, Home or Pro Retail, upgrade, or standard OEM. Hope that helps.
Well I ran out of memory after that. In my head so I can't blame MS for that:-)))

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Feb 27, 2005 - 4:41 PM

"bulk OEM will require call in activation"

Which will force OEM's to look at cheaper methods to get their PC's out the door. With this Microsoft would be opening a huge gaping hole for all the other OS vendors to play on.

Your source is wrong, or Microsoft is making a HUGE mistake.

Pick one.

Score: 0

By orthocross@skycasters.net

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 12:19 PM

I have seen many articles concerning Microsoft's new policy concerning XP OEM keys. However, I have yet to see a clear statement concerning so-called "FULL OEM" keys. I did not buy my machine from a major system builder, or any system builder, for that matter.

My brother built my machine from the case up, and purchased a "FULL OEM" CD from a national computer parts supplier. This CD was manufactured by Microsoft, and was shrink-wrapped with the COA and the "Getting Started" booklet.

Will these "FULL OEM" keys be disallowed from Internet Activations? I really need a clear answer, as I reinstall my OS several times per year. I always install "clean", so I always have to reactivate the OS.

I would really appreciate a clear answer about this matter.

Donald McDaniel

Score: 0

By cormac35

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 5:56 PM

A "FULL OEM" is suppose to be installed on a coumputer (built) or included with a built computer by the company providing the computer. These companies get a good deal from microsoft, that is suppose to be passed on to you for installation purposes. Some companies will sell these OEM versions at a big discout (see ebay). With this new policy on microsoft, I would think it will affect those version of XP also.

Score: 0

By carmad

posted Feb 26, 2005 - 5:05 AM

These big PC makers usually use bios XP activation and a user does not have to type in a code because it is in the bios. You can reinstall every day with a machine like that.

What this means though is they are making it inconvenient to ever upgrade the o/s in your system from its original spec. Nice way to kill the market for their own software.

Score: 0

By normangerman

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 7:28 PM

I read a lot of comments of people wanting to reinstall Windows. Well, let me tell you something. Use a computer properly, and it WON'T stuff up. I've had XP for well over a year now, and even installed SP2, and I never have had to reinstall. What the hell are you guys doing to stuff it up?

Even my old Windows 98 Box I only had to reformat once after I used it for 5 years, plating games, sufting the web and stuff.

I have Anti-virus and Anti-spyware on both my new computer, as well as the old 98 box which my parents use everyday without problems. I have a firewall on both, and I've had no viruses, spyware, whatever.

Score: 0

By jmagnus

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 11:49 PM

Did your Parents set up everything for their computer or did someone else?
Thought so.
Does every person who buys a new Dell have someone around who can configure all the stuff needed to protect them from the flaws Microsoft left in their system?
I thought so too.

Hard drives do fail, or get upgraded to larger/faster ones once a digital camera is purchased, or get messed up accidentally by new users (or their children, or their children's friends).

It is nice to know that Microsoft has just decided to impose a cost increase on these people. If they decide to do the re-install themselves, they will have to make a call to Tech Support, then Microsoft, then back to Tech Support. This will increase the cost to the PC manufacturer for increased Tech Support (and therefore increase the cost to consumers) or increase the 'load' on knowlegable relative and friends, or increase the cost to the consumer directly when they take the computer in to BestBuy or call a local Tech for an on-site repair. It will take more time to install the OS, so the cost will go up.

I will admit that it only takes about 12 minutes to activate Office (during business hours), but I am pretty sure I can activate it at least twice over the Internet before I have to call. (My predecessor did not record which machine which serial number of Office was installed on, so I have called a few time.)

Anyone for re-calculating the TCO of Microsoft products?
Windows, the product that keeps on giving.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 9:25 PM

"Use a computer properly, and it WON'T stuff up."

Bull, you can't get more wrong. It doesn't matter what OS (though it's a little easier to fix on some than others) you can mess your computer up pretty bad with just a patch or service pack. Just because YOU got LUCKY and haven't had to deal with it, doesn't mean that the whole world is wrong. ;-) I did an XP install the other day that I had to completely do over because something was hosed with a driver and it no longer completed a boot. (fresh install) THEN I had a SUSE machine that decided that GNOME needed to take a dump after patching. It doesn't matter what OS it is, now and then something happens and you have to start over or at least spend so much time figuring out that it would have been FASTER to start over than to fix (and hope it's fixed).

Score: 0

By bigmac

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 11:52 PM

I agree, I've had to reinstall a few times, and with multiple drives I've even had two separate Windows XP OSes running on my machine; one for general use, games, etc., and the other for development. Last summer, though I was informed when I had to activate after installing new hardware that the installation I had reached the limit of allowable activations. I was kind of freaked out, needless to say. I called Microsoft and activated it over the phone, but it was still quite a nuisance. That was back in August 2004. Now, I figure if my computer gets so bogged down that I have to reinstall, I'm going to have to call Microsoft every time. They should expect that since their OS is almost 4 years old this is going to happen right? I feel they should reset their activation servers so that guys like me (who reinstall once a year or so) can still activate it over the Internet.

Score: 0

By scronline

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 9:18 PM

Well, it boils down to 99% of computer users have NO, let me reiterate that, ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, NO idea WHAT-SO-EVER of how to keep their computer clean and secure.

And also, I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but there are things out there that

A) cause AV software to malfunction
B) root your box (aka rootkits)
C) backdoor everything else

All it takes is going to the wrong place at the wrong time and you're nailed. What's even more hilarious about this whole thing, many users get OVER paranoid about things. So they run 2 AV programs, 3 firewalls programs, and a whole host of other things that "their friend told them they should use" that actually compounds the issue and/or cancel each other out.

HackerDefender anyone?

OH, and a little pet peeve of mine. People who break into computers are called Crackers. Hackers are people who improve code to enhance performance, functionality, or whatever.

Score: 0

By mobilesndfx

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 8:21 PM

If you know how to use a computer without it "Stuffing Up" as you call it, write a book, youll be a millionaire!! No matter what anti-virus or anti- spy software you use, if your on the net surfing, downloading, etc. your PC is going to get slower. If youve had XP for a year, your regular to the net, try reformating, I guarantee your PC will run faster afterwards.

Score: 0

By avidetto

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 6:22 PM

I worked for years at large corprations, who double bought COA & OEM Site for Windows. They would then have us peel off the COA and resell it to reclaim the "losss" from microsoft double charging them for the same product. Now, they would then resell them to small companies who could then offer a custom build with a COA for a reduced price to compete with the larger companies. This did not cost Microsoft anything, nor could a XP Coa be activated twice, this is a myth. This is simply a way for microsoft to "jack up" the cost of their products.

This is designed to force out small companies, and promote those who use Microsoft Site builds. Microsoft also has announced that it plans to "recharge" per year for your copy of the new version of NTFS.

As a result of this final straw, I have signed to begin promoting Novell Linux. This is a solid build, and will sell for a fraction of Windows and together with wine, or win4lin will support almost any windows app.

I guess it goes to show, the tighter you squeeze people, the more they decide to get away from you.
Perhaps Bill needs to go back to the carport and build few "Stolen PC's with Stolen OS (mac) (Quck and dirty operating system) , those of us who are old enough REMEMBER when he was the most famous Hacker and theif in the industry.

Lets do the ime warp again :)
Peace.
Cenedi

Score: 0

By dogandacomputer

edited Feb 25, 2005 - 4:56 PM

FireFox stole 25 million IEs users ... now the question is how much is M$ going to lose to Linux now ... I agree pirating is bad, but treating the legitimate owners like criminals is worse. It does not matter what M$ does, there will be away around it. M$ NEEDS to change their focus and start improving their customer relations skills, not worsening them. PLEASE everyone look into using Linux. It can do the same things a M$ PC can do, and more, more efficiently, and you do not need a PHD to do it! Take the plunge! You won’t regret it!

Score: 0

By Spinecast

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 6:42 PM

How do you figure that Firefox "stole" 25 million users from MS? 25 million is the number of people that simply downloaded Firefox. How do you know that half, if not more, of those people tried it, and threw it away like the trash that it is?

Just because someone downloads a program, doesn't mean they keep using it.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 9:27 PM

It's trash? Please, elaborate.

Score: 0

By dogandacomputer

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 8:46 PM

ok ... so half downloaded and use it ... 25 million people, and it is actually 27 now, are looking for an alternative ...

Score: 0

By shicaca

posted Feb 25, 2005 - 7:38 PM

I sure hope you don't still use Internet Explorer.

Firefox is more than I could have ever wanted.

The plugin support alone is priceless. Not to mention the way it handles downloads, views nearly everything perfectly the first time (and more pages appear correctly than I ever had with IE), and that's just the beginning.

I can't believe I used IE for such a long time. Oh wait. I can. It was the only thing existant, minus Netsh*t navigator/communicator. What a crock of sh*t those programs were/are.

Get a clue -- if someone downloaded it, they were most likely interested. If they had the time to sit down and look at a few of the commands, they'd switch in a minute. I will never go back to a browser that doesn't have tabbed browsing.

Score: 0