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Microsoft Invites Mozilla Devs Over

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

August 21, 2006, 4:39 PM

The head of Microsoft's open source lab is inviting Mozilla developers up to Redmond for some help in making sure Firefox and Thunderbird run on Windows Vista. The offer is part of a weekly lab Microsoft is holding for developers in order to reduce application compatibility problems.

With Windows Vista nearing its first release candidate, application compatibility has taken center stage. If customers' applications don't seamlessly work with the new operating system, many will hold off on upgrading. In turn, Microsoft has begun to seek out bigger developers and work with them directly.

For four days each week through December, Microsoft is hosting a Windows Vista Readiness ISV Lab. Although Mozilla competes with Internet Explorer, the alternative browser is also a top third-party application, and Microsoft's developer ecosystem is critical to the success of Windows.

"In the past the company has only invited commercial software developers to these labs. I'm committed to evolving our thinking beyond commercial companies to include open source projects, so I went to the non-trivial effort of getting slots for non-commercial open source projects," wrote Sam Ramji, Director of the Open Source Software Lab at Microsoft.

Ramji says the company will provide "secure office space for 4 people, hardware, VPN access, and 1:1 access to product team developers and support staff." Mozilla did not publicly respond to the invitation, but said it is in contact with Microsoft regarding the opportunity.

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By Tobu

edited Aug 26, 2006 - 1:34 PM

This is consistent with the way they interact with third-party apps.

When they see a bug in an application, fix the OS. When there is a bug in the OS, fix the application. The leake windows source code contains plenty of workarounds crashes in Office, Borland or other partners.

This explains how they have managed to build slightly buggy and nigh-impossible to reverse-engineer APIs for a long time now.

Score: 0

By ds0934

posted Aug 23, 2006 - 9:06 AM

Those poor developers will emerge from Redmond with the same content smile and repeating the same phrase: "Microsoft is our friend now". When they turn, you'll see the incision mark on the back of their heads.

Score: 0

By I'm Guessing

posted Aug 23, 2006 - 8:55 AM

Microsoft Reaches Out To Firefox Developers

Why does it feel like Microsoft is trying to sell me a used car that someone was driving in New Orleans, before Hurricane Katrina hit? Firefox has worked just fine without Microsoft’s help up until this point, so what is the problem? Wait a minute, I just answered my own question. My bad.

I’m sure Mozilla & the Open Source community would love some help dumbing down their software to Microsoft’s sub-standards. Why put out good software for free, when you can put out average stuff and make billions.

For some reason I just can’t the get the Little Red Riding Hood fairy tale out of my head when thinking about Microsoft’s “offer”. Maybe Microsoft’s intents are genuine. Maybe they really do want to help. Maybe.

If it was me, I would cover all my bases. Politely listen to what Microsoft has to say. Offer them as little as possible about the future direction of your products. Reveal nothing that can come back to bite you. Sincerely shake their hands, and after they are out of eyesight, count your fingers, just in case.

I’m Guessing
http://imguessingblog.blogspot.com
imguessingblog@gmail.com

Score: 0

By McAleck

posted Aug 23, 2006 - 6:13 AM

bodes ill at my end

Score: 0

By moserw

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 11:22 AM

Good, but would be better if MS gave other browsers pre-installed with Vista like Opera and Firefox, or IE did not come pre-installed as many people do not even know the existence of alternate browsers and just use the default IE which comes with Windows.

http://www.nela.in/

Score: 0

By pawlou@swbell.net

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 3:15 PM

I've had no problems running Firefox and Thunderbird on Vista 5384 and 5472.
Everything runs fine.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 4:00 PM

Firefox Bon Echo? (beta 2?)

That's the issue they're having with Vista. The latest FF beta works fine in XP, but not in Vista.

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 1:21 PM

It's like watching a horror movie. You can tell the character on the screen "don't go in there" but they go in there anyway.

Score: 0

By omV0

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 3:05 PM

LOL that post was the funniest I read in a long time! thanks for that =)

Score: 0

By RingMaster

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 12:14 PM

Always good when you see rival corporations (MS and Moz) working together to make products work for the end-user.

Now microsoft cant be called a monopoly as they are "endorsing" the use of another browser on THEIR operating system.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 12:42 PM

Endorsing!=letting other companies in a cage on your property....even if you call it a 'lab'. ;)

If they actually get anything done, well....then we'll talk. :p

Score: 0

By callus

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 11:15 AM

IE7 is better than Firefox because IE7 has the protected mode in Windows Vista.

IE7 in Windows Vista incorporates additional security measures, most significantly "Protected Mode", whereby the browser runs in a sandbox with even lower rights than a limited user account. As such, it can write to only the Temporary Internet Files folder and cannot install start-up programs or change any configuration of the operating system without communicating through a broker process. This is expected to increase the security of the system considerably.

Score: 0

By Tenoq

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 11:32 PM

Yet by not supporting ActiveX crap, Firefox also cannot install startup programs or change your system configuration without authorisation.

So what's the advantage?

Score: 0

By Gerwin

posted Aug 23, 2006 - 9:15 AM

That you can still use ActiveX crap?

Score: 0

By RingMaster

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 12:03 PM

The "protected mode" in Vista could be achieve in Windows XP to a degree by creating a normal account (not power user, but user), and then changing shortcuts to setup executables to run as different credentials to bring up the dialog to log in as an administrator to perform the action. I'll assume it will be further enhanced than the XP "run as" command. From a security aspect, Vista stands up to the challenge.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 12:40 PM

Meh...

Iffy. Protected mode is achieved in Vista only because it's no longer completely built into the OS. One of the saving graces of Vista is that it's a lot more componentized than XP.

XP could never achieve that without a major rewrite since many of it's functions rely on the IE built-ins.

I suppose they could force some sort of UAC in XP, which sounds a lot like what you suggest, but they don't really have the incentive to do that as it would erode the profits on Vista as it would take away yet one more reason to upgrade (and it would seem there are scarce enough reasons as it is).

;)

...just sayin'.

Score: 0

By RingMaster

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 12:00 PM

IE7 is pretty good right now. Awaiting for the final release. A worthy adversary to Firefox.

Firefox I grant is awesome with its load times but image rendering is slow when the image is over lets say 1024x768 as opposed to IE6+. Looking forward to Firefox 2.0 final release. Heard that the image rendering engine has been improved substantially.

Score: 0

By Paul Lush

posted Aug 23, 2006 - 10:19 AM

Perfectly good?!? HAHAHAHAH

Its only just over 50% CSS compliant, how can that be "perfectly good"?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 10:01 AM

Excuse me?

Where are you seeing this? I've got Firefox installed. No extensions messing with the addy bar. I can highlight any amount of text simply by dragging my mouse over it. Single click selects all, double click selects words...

I see nothing out of the ordinary.

Of course, I haven't used IE in a while...maybe that *is* abnormal.

Score: 0

By crashoverride

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 9:34 AM

So the ole dinosaur is going to be stepping into the snake pit eh.

Score: 0

By CyberDoc999

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 9:16 AM

Step into my web said the spider to the fly.....

Score: 0

By trebor

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 8:40 AM

Soon Vista will be called 'Firefox compatible'.....MSFT has to, since the EU commission is on their case big time. Moreover, after using Bon Echo Beta1, nightly auto update for weeks now, it is blazing away from IE7, literally....in all departments....all! Why do u think the '+' was dropped from IE7 ;>).

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 9:59 AM

Dropped?

Nope.

IE7+ will be bundled with Vista *only*. It will not be available to XP users.

The designation will likely not be used much as most folks won't see a difference.

IE7+ is different from IE7 simply becuase it is *not* part of the OS anymore. It can operate in protected mode (much like any other app) and not be directly integrated into the OS.

Because of the way Windows XP was designed, it still depends on core IE technologies, and thus, the version of IE7 for XP will still have that drawback. (Hence, the lack of a "+" sign)

Agreed on Bon Echo, though. It's looking mighty good.

Score: 0

By Skyfrog

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 7:21 PM

You're mistaken, they recently dropped the idea of calling it IE7+, they are not going to do that anymore. People were getting confused about it so from now on the version in Vista will simply be called Internet Explorer 7, no plus. It will still be different, but the name will be the same. The decision had nothing to do with Firefox though.

Score: 0

By Paul Lush

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 7:46 AM

They should worry more about getting IE7 actually somewhere near being CSS compliant.

Score: 0

By Joe Dirt

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 7:38 AM

If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em. :D

Score: 0

By alrmh

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 9:34 AM

Well said!

Score: 0

By midnighter_9999

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 5:31 AM

Will Firefox & Thunderbird be built in for Windows Vista??? That Would be fun!!

That would give people a chance to see that Firefox is just better!!

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 7:02 AM

No, It won't be. Including Firefox would be suicide for Microsoft's internet explorer. Same with Thunderbird and Outlook.

Score: 0

By Tenoq

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 11:35 PM

Thunderbird is not an Outlook competitor. It competes with Outlook express.

Moreover, Outlook isn't bundled with Vista, AFAIK. It's MS Office software.

Score: 0

By hfztt

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 7:50 AM

Firefox vs. IE - Likely FF win.
Thunderbird on the other hand just lives of beeing a FF bundle partner. ON its own meerits its just a really crappy mail client.

Score: 0

By eclipsingdivinity

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 10:04 AM

How is Thunderbird crappy? It does what you want it to do...that's recieve and send emails. Anything beyond that is really what 5% of online users do...which is well..I dunno.

Score: 0

By Desides

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 8:49 AM

Thunderbird is okay. The "problem," such as it is, is that no one is nearly as discontent with Outlook and Outlook Express as they are with IE.

Score: 0

By Bugeyes

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 3:04 AM

"secure office space for 4 people, hardware, VPN access, and 1:1 access to product team developers and support staff."

Where everything is taped and transposed. 'Sure! Come on over Xerox!'

If you don't get that, you're too young....

Score: 0

By morriscox

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 8:42 PM

After a mouse, windows, and a user interface, who knows what's next? Keyboards that project a holographic screen?

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 5:19 AM

I don't get it and I'm not young (Not that young anyway)

But no, I don't think Microsoft would tap them. They might be the super billion dollar international software bully, but I think that cheating is even beyond Microsoft.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 8:58 AM

Nope....he didn't get it. ;)

Score: 0

By The MAZZTer

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 11:03 PM

Firefox 2b1 crashes on Vista beta 2, Firefox/Thunderbird 1.5.x.x run fine.

I don't get it, isn't part of the point of the Vista beta to let devs make sure their programs work?

And I would expect Mozilla devs to be already well on their way to getting Firefox 2 working in Vista builds. I'm sure someone there must have a MSDN subscription.

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 1:28 AM

Um, dude...

1) Thats EXACTLY what this artical is about and

2) 2b1 is a beta release, I believe. Try the latest version, version 1.5.1

When you download a beta, you are told that it is unstable software that may crash, cause your computer to explode or call your mother names (No, seriously... one site I got a beta from said that! :P)

Score: 0

By DJInsomniac

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 10:53 AM

No, he was actually talking about the Beta to be working on Vista.

If the latest version of Firefox works, shouldn't a beta, that is supposed to be a better version and newer since the latest "stable" release, have the same compatibility that the stable release has?

That's what he was going for.

Score: 0

By Murdock71

edited Aug 22, 2006 - 1:37 PM

Not even close, beta means testing version, new functinality, new ways of doing old things etc can vastly affect stability. Thats why software developers do betas otherwise we could go directly to Release Canadates

Score: 0

By LRN

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 6:02 PM

Devil invites two angels to Hell, to make sure Hell's new halls is large enough for angels to fly...

Well, at least Thunderbird will run under XP...

Score: 0

By Skyfrog

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 7:19 PM

You're probably joking, I hope, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever read. Microsoft is not the devil, and open source developers are not angesls. Please grow up.

Score: 0

By AlanRivaldo

edited Aug 21, 2006 - 10:51 PM

"In turn, Microsoft has begun to seek out bigger developers and work with them directly."

Great - I'll let my friend know. He's 6' 5" tall and weighs about 275 lbs.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Aug 21, 2006 - 5:28 PM

lmao...

...and when he sits around the office...

well...

you get it...

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 1:29 AM

LOL.

Score: 0

By MarlinT

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 4:56 PM

Great news for Mozilla!

Score: 0

By Mark Gillespie

posted Aug 22, 2006 - 6:53 AM

It's not just Mozilla that was invited, so were Opera...

http://annevankesteren.nl/2006/08/opera-vista

Score: 0

By eclipsingdivinity

posted Aug 21, 2006 - 8:22 PM

In turn, great news for Microsoft. They're slowly becoming the Pooh Bear of the software industry.

Score: 0

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