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Microsoft Seeing Red With Xbox 360

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

November 23, 2005, 2:03 PM

In order to be first, sometimes you have to pay the price. That's what Microsoft could be doing with its Xbox 360, according to analyst firm iSuppli.

While the firm's teardown of the unit gave a peek into the dominance that IBM will have in the next-generation of gaming consoles, it also showed that the bill-of-materials cost for the Xbox 360 Premium reaches $525 USD, 32 percent higher than the $399 USD retail price of the device.

It should be noted that iSuppli's findings do not include the projected cost of manufacturing each unit, so the total cost to Microsoft likely runs even higher.

According to preliminary findings by iSuppli, the custom-built triple-core PowerPC chip from IBM accounts for 20 percent of the materials cost at a price of $106 USD. In fact, the chip and integrated silicon alone account for $340 USD of the total bill-of-materials cost.

However, the most expensive single part in the new Xbox 360 console is the ATI GPU with embedded NEC DRAM, which cost Microsoft an estimated $141 USD.

But why is Microsoft taking such a big hit on the Xbox 360? More often than not, console makers will take losses on the devices, hoping to make up the difference through software and licensing fees. The lower price also allows for faster adoption of the console.

According to Andrew Rassweiler, manager of iSuppli's Teardown Analysis Service, Microsoft should see at least $50 of savings per unit plus other cost savings as yields improve on the parts within the Xbox 360, such as the CPU and GPU.

No matter what the price, in the next generation of gaming consoles there is one clear winner: IBM. Its chips will power the Nintendo Revolution, Sony's PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360.

"While it's too early to say whether Microsoft's Xbox 360 will prevail in the gaming market, IBM is a sure winner in consoles due to its across-the-board design wins," the firm said.

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By TheBeastH6

posted Nov 29, 2005 - 11:07 AM

I'll stick to computer gaming, thanks.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

edited Nov 29, 2005 - 10:05 AM

Got a lil present for all you M$ fans bashing on Sony :P

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/...comdex/gates.30.240.mov

Score: 0

By youbigtoe

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 7:42 PM

hay maniakmx3 you need to shut your mouth about xbox360 or else im going to have to bust you up.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 29, 2005 - 10:03 AM

Dude...grow up ok? No need to be flaming about someones opinion...

Score: 0

By youbigtoe

edited Nov 28, 2005 - 7:39 PM

xbox360 is the best system Ive ever had if sony tries to make a better system then xbox360 hes going to make a fool out of him self.

Score: 0

By KSzostek

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 11:38 AM

Wow I love mine no problems at all. What a great system. Watch out Sony your going down!

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 9:00 AM

ok From what I have heard, the X360 is nothing but a peice of junk, I've gone to EBGames and demoed it, and felt like I was playing COD2 on my PC. NO difference. So how everyone has been saying the 360 is better than PC...Not true, and I am NOT Impressed.

Now, From Press that went to E3, I have heard that the PS3 is "Radical" "Jaw Dropping" etc etc...And it X360 VS PS3 Round ups, the PS3 makes the 360 look like a Gamecube. BUT There are estimated prices UP TO $599 for the PS3. I have read anywhere from the usual price of $299.99 all the way up to $599.99 for a PS3, It seems that the PS3 cost ALOT More to build than the X360 did....

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 10:06 AM

Oh and by the way, even if the PS3 is $600, it's still worth it, Beacuse once BD-DVD (Blu-ray) replaces your standard DVDs. You're all gonna have to go out and get a blu Ray player, So you're lookin at $399 for your X360, plus another $399 for your Blu-Ray Player, I'd rather buy a PS3 and have a better gaming system, and a blu-ray player :)

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 3:03 PM

There goes your precious Blu-Ray: http://www.betanews.com/...16_Terabytes/1133197797

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 3:59 PM

The movie industry won't use that technology, do you honestly think the MPAA would allow 12 HD Format Movies on ONE Disk?

Score: 0

By nightops

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 4:39 PM

Ok, the X360 wasn't meant to replace a PC. At best, it plays games as well as a mid to high-range PC. Most 'real' gaming rigs will play games quite a bit better than the X360. The PS3 will have a better CPU, but the GPU that is on the X360 is poised to best the PS3 by leaps. It will be interesting, however, I will continue to boycott Sony/SonyBMG/SCEA for SonyBMG's failing to act in good faith towards the general public in regards to the rootkit/DRM issue as of late. Sorry Sony, you had 3 chances and blew them all.

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 4:47 PM

I agree, and sony will be punished and then forgivin as all other companies that have made mistakes. Don't forget, M$ Has made alot of mistakes in the past as well *cough* Windows 97 *cough* Windows ME *cough* lol

Score: 0

By xbox 360 da king

posted Dec 19, 2005 - 10:50 AM

those pc's were the best at the time even though they are old they were good when they fist come out your blaning them for something old that was good at its time you full of s***

Score: 0

By Niro

edited Nov 28, 2005 - 12:54 PM

yea sony sure does wish the blu-ray will replace dvd's...just like they wished their mini-discs will replace cd's (everybody now has MD players and buys nothing but MD's right??). Even if blu-ray somehow does become the standard, blu-ray players will hit the sub $100 mark very soon just like dvd players have.

EDIT: good luck sony with yet another propietary format that you're trying to push down everybodies throats:

http://news.com.com/Cost...9815.html?tag=nefd.lede

Score: 0

By maniakmx3

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 2:34 PM

Sony isn't the only company supporting the Blu-Ray format, over 70% of the movie industry is also pushing the blu-ray format.

Today everyone is switching to HD-TV, with Blu-ray you can get the full advatage of HD with Blu-ray's capabilities. We're talking a 2Megapixel x 1Megapixel Resolution! Much better than the est 1600x1200 Resolution by HD-DVD.

Just remember...we thought VHS was gonna be around for ever!...oh! wait! look! DVD!! why? who uses analog televisions anymore? We all went Digital, BUT now the Digital Era is over...now it's time for High-Definition. Blu-Ray is the format of choice for HD.

Score: 0

By dsb23a

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 11:06 PM

If you haven't already, check out 360forfree.com. I got a free 360 from these guys. They must have had a pretty good stock cause I got it by Thurs. Been playing ever since. Highly recommend COD 2.

Score: 0

By kgruber

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 11:10 PM

Nice try spammer!

Score: 0

By xbox 360 da king

posted Dec 19, 2005 - 10:52 AM

i agree with you free xbox 360 bull s*** why dont we sue him ha ha ha lol lol

Score: 0

By xoineg

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 9:09 AM

The main reason not to buy an Xbox is because since microsoft wanted it to be ready for xmas. They still have some problems. I have read and know people that their xbox is given them problems. Just google Xbox 360 problems in google news.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 1:00 AM

so a fraction of a million xboxes is causing problems and it's suddenly a huge 360 design issue?? What electronic equipment do you know of that doesn't have a chance of being defective when you buy it? You know what you do when that happens?? You exchange it for another...I know it's difficult to understand but it's true, try it.:)

Problem with xbox is it's so limited that if you get a defective one...they won't have a new one to give you for a while.;/

Also...setting it up ona rug and covering all the vents and then later complaining that it's overheating doesn't count as a design problem.

Score: 0

By xbox 360 da king

posted Dec 19, 2005 - 10:53 AM

i agree with you once again

Score: 0

By tremens

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 12:36 AM

i luv microsoft and everything, but I doubt this analysis to be valid.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 12:29 PM

LOL we got a genius over here that doesn't know how to spell love and capitlize words that thinks he knows better then the expertsby coming out and saying "they're wrong!" with nothing to back up his brilliand statement. I think he wants a cookie!!

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 4:27 AM

You already said that in other posts, and you're wrong... go read the responses, understand them, and get over it.

Score: 0

By tremens

edited Nov 27, 2005 - 10:35 AM

pissed off because you bought a 700 dollar xbox360 that's unstable? the ps3 will smoke this thing anyways on hardware even with a crappy rootkit in the background, the overhead would be comparable to xbox live:), red will be something the xbox division must be getting used to. sorry fanbois, the marketing department's "we practically giving this away" doesn't work on used cars and sure as hell not on expensive electronics.

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 12:18 PM

thats what so funny becuase your ganna be wrong. its ganna be to dang expensive.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 10:38 AM

I've seen some really stupid trolls on this site in the past, but you are by far the biggest idiot in the entire world. Learn to read other posts and you can answer your question.

Score: 0

By tremens

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 11:07 AM

i understand the widespread theory, but I will not buy into it until I see actual numbers from MS. As stated previously, they're not making much on the hardware, but this article is a PR release. Projects have budgets, I don't think they give ATM cards to Bill's account to all the employees:) The size of the contract negotiated would have allowed a reduced cost per unit, and when looking at parts used on first Xbox, I think it's safe to assume that quality control was not optimal. they go with the lowest bidder or a subsidary owns the assembly plant. either way it's cheap. as others and I have said there's quite a few more mouths within the company for cost of materals being as high as this release states. The budget of an entire project is a larger entity than cost of materials, asses have to be covered, bills must be paid.

my 2 cents...my opinion is no more valid than you or the person who provided this analysis

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 27, 2005 - 12:26 PM

How is this a PR release? It would be in MS's interest to say they're making money on the hardware, not losing. This isn't PR, this is just fact. And all your points you're trying to make with no proof whatsoever is true for any company manufacturing any new product, so your precious PS3 that will "smoke the xbox 360" would be no different. I just fail to see any negative points you're trying to make about the xbox that wouldn't apply to the PS3. Nice try tho'.

BTW...Sony will be losing even MORE money then MS per console. They have already said they will be selling at an increased loss in an attempt to get blu-ray into the public hands.

Score: 0

By tremens

edited Nov 28, 2005 - 6:27 AM

how is a public release stating we're making a bunch of money on these devices that are pretty expensive going to boost sales? haha, i don't care about any consoles. i'm happy to see IBM banking though. iSuppli is speculating and I disagree, chill out kids.

EDIT: I DON'T DISAGREE THEY'RE SEEING RED INITIALLY ON XBOX360 SALES!!! ISUPPLI's BREAKDOWN IS A SIMPLE ANALYSIS, NOT VIEWING THE LARGER PICTURE AND OVER ESTIMATING COST OF MATERIALS.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 9:01 AM

They don't need a public release on console profits to boost sales, that's not the purpose of these press releases. How do the stock holders react to a press release that they're losing $126/console? How does the market react to such a loss? That's the bigger picture...coming out and saying there's a loss per sale is not some kind of marketing trick. Trust me they rather not say they lose money, but by law they have to tell the public.

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

edited Nov 26, 2005 - 7:17 PM

Oh, and you don't know how to surf? Get your self a browser(www.mozilla.org www.opera.com), install it, type in www.betanews.com in the address bar, and press enter.

BTW. Holloywood is a movie industry, and there are some companies that give away the Xbox at no cost.
And it's Microsoft... even I know that.

Score: 0

By trebor

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 6:15 AM

Now lets see for a moment....is it offered as an introductory price or The Price. In the latter, would there not be a lawcase lurking.....is predatory pricing, cornering market, buying market, plain dumping......

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

posted Nov 28, 2005 - 3:07 PM

In related news, the price of tea in China has just dropped...

What are you talking about again?

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 9:35 AM

What the hell are you talking about? Predatory pricing? Market cornering? Please! Playstation and Nintendo are going to be comparably priced when they're released.

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 10:26 AM

I have no idea what he's on about either, but I think 399 USD is still a bit much for a console that'll probably (may not) break in half a years time.

The old PS1's were 100 AUD ^_^

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 1:30 PM

Considering the functionality and the hardware involved, it's a reasonable price, although I agree that it's a lot for something that *might* break down... I suppose that's what warranties are for.

On the other hand, prices do drop after the first year, and continue to drop after that, so if that's a concern for you then waiting is the best course of action.

Score: 0

By JacenSolo

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 7:09 PM

I'm going to wait. Mainly for MS to ship more, but also so that these reports of "bugs" get sorted out and the price to drop :)

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 11:52 PM

Congrats! You finally made a sensible post! :) I agree too, although from what I've read on various gaming and tech sites (eweek.com and 1up.com), most of the issues have been overheating issues because people decided to set their systems up so that it covered the ventilation holes. Even so, better to wait it out... let the prices drop, let production increase, and let any bugs get worked out.

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 10:50 PM

100 comments??? Obviously NOBODY is actually playing the Xbox! ;o)

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 1:58 AM

lol more like everybody that preordered them in 2004 is playing the 360...and everybody else is here venting since they're sold out everywhere. :)

Score: 0

By xbox 360 da king

posted Dec 19, 2005 - 12:18 PM

i agree i preordered in september and i am getting it on thursday 21st

Score: 0

By ryanyogan

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 7:31 PM

Some of you can not comprehend the basic facts of business, sometimes you have to lose a little to make alot.

Why are some of you smashing the PS3, let me guess your father works on the R&D department for Sony and you messed around with it on take your son to work day? Give it up PS3 is going to be one killer machine, and you must remember as much heat as sony has gotten lately with the ROOTKIT, you must understand only us few nerds even know what that is... Most people buying these consoles are parents racing to the stores for you at 5 AM, and most of them don't even know what it is other then the fact you told them SONY PS3. Sony is not new to this market guys, they took on Nintendo years ago whom was the leader and shut them down pretty quick to number 2. Sony PS3 is not going anywhere, and I am sure that it will have stunning graphics and all the goodies that XBOX live has... It basically is going to boil down to whoever has the better games, do you buy a console based on its specs or what you get to play?

Back to Microsoft they aren't quite losing on the systems. They are already paid for and where along time ago. They will have some losses at first, but the liscening fees they will make back along with all the other services, over priced remotes, memory cards, etc... They will make a fortune, it is simple business people, why can't some of you understand this? Of all companies we can all agree Microsoft knows a thing or two about liscensing fees and "strong business tactics" to corner developers, etc. into going with them. They did not become a multi billion dollar corporation because they are just ok at it, no they are without a doubt one of the best!

Compare it to the airlines pre 9/11 etc when some where very profitable. Do you not think American Airlines takes a loss when they lease multiple 32 million dollar 757's? Of course they do, they can't afford thoes planes, they lease them knowing that with ticket sales, proper marketing, and other small areas of revenue they will make up the money. Microsoft is not the first company to use this kind of business tactic, many do thus it is a common practice. As many have stated already if you are not familiar with this, you are either still in high school; or you need to go to your local junior college and take a decent business class / economics class if you ever plan to be in the business world.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 10:22 PM

OK, because I'm bored, I just read through the posts here again... the only PS3-related comments I've read are ones talking about how it will be like previous Playstations and the Xbox systems and take an initial loss. No bashing, no smashing, etc etc. In fact, the only non-cost related comments came from me saying that I preferred Playstation because of their RPG market.

So while your rant is amusing, it's entirely off base. I won't waste time repeating my own posts to others and that of your other commenter, they do a good enough job debunking your tirade.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 9:25 PM

"Back to Microsoft they aren't quite losing on the systems. They are already paid for and where along time ago."

I'd LOVE to know where you got this made up fact. FACT is...MS never made a profit on xbox as a whole (and I don't just mean sales of the system itself). MS finances are public, look them up.

Oh here, these will get you started:

http://www.microsoft.com...nonflash/10k_fr_sp.html

Here's something you might actually be able to understand:
http://hardware.gamespot...tory-ST-9399-1900-4-4-x

Quick quote:

"As it did last quarter, the Xbox is showing signs of improvement. While it won't turn the fortunes of Microsoft Corp.'s game division around--it still loses money for the software giant--it did narrow the losses for the second quarter in a row. "

Read some facts next time before making up your own.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 10:14 PM

Well presented! :)

Score: 0

By roj

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:47 PM

Can we lobby BetaNews to turn the comment facility into a blog?

This is nutz.

I'm out.

Score: 0

By tremens

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 2:28 AM

haha, somebody in marketing give credible info? they're not selling these units at a loss. The processor is obviously the most expensive item, but the rest is obviously not, sorry rijp.

3 core processor = 105
ati gpu = 140
20 gb HD = 15
motherboard(integrated wifi,audio) = 50
512mb gddr3= 50
dvdrom= 20
case= 20

TOTAL = 400

These are all figuring high costs of manufacturing, but the rest of these items besides the processor are variations of common pc parts made on large scale(the assembly lines have been rolling) for quite some time now. So I believe it could possibly have broken even(maybe) after research and development(directX) and the various other partipating divisions get a check for their work. any idiot that claims pc materials costs are that high(speaking of strictly the components) knows nothing or has personal interests to generate hype or spread propaganda.

A more credible article would have pointed out how the hardware is not going to be where Microsoft reaps the high return on their investment of the xbox360. Charging a monthly fee on Xbox Live for an internet connection you have anyway, games, special merchandise. There's a lot more money to be had in the multiple year life span of the device.

iSuppli =

Who We Are

The electronics supply chain has grown into highly complex web, spun from countless interdependent relationships spread throughout the globe. If everything runs smoothly, the electronics industry can achieve remarkable success. However, if just one link in the chain fails, the repercussions can be catastrophic for companies in completely different industries and regions. It’s not hard to find examples of such supply-chain failures; trade and business publications during the last few years have reported such events

How We Can Help You

iSuppli research is tailored to meet the needs of the supply chain, with frequent updates that stress immediate issues like pricing, lead times and availability.

iSuppli research is intended to help companies:

* Better create and manage demand

* More efficiently allocate capacity

* More effectively manage inventories and production plans

* Enhance targeting and introduction of new products

* Improve delivery and customer service

* Reduce supply chain cycle times and disruptions

* Decrease overall supply chain risks and liabilities

* Cut costs

And unlike many firms that maintain only a regional focus, iSuppli research is global, with analysts or operations located in every major electronics geography of the world, including emerging markets in China and India.

...now back to our featured presentation.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 4:33 PM

Well, even with the prices you outline, you barely put it at cost... which still means no profit.

First of all, you overlook the cost of game controllers, cables and connectors, and the power supply (which was obviously a low-end one because of the overheating issues reported).

Second, at no point in your rant do you take into consideration the cost of labor involved in manufacturing. You mention Chinese and Indian labor, but even at "slave wages" you still have a cost that is unaccounted for in your explanation. There are still employees to pay for their efforts.

Third, did you take into account the costs of shipping, packaging, or documentation?

Fourth, even with Xbox Live services, there are servers and bandwidth to pay for, which means yet another cost to add in.

Before you start spouting off nonsense about economics and development processes, I suggest you do your homework and know what you're talking about first.

**EDIT: A couple comments were retracted after re-reading the initial post and clarifying someting I initially misread.

Score: 0

By tremens

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 11:18 PM

the article was concerning the cost of materials, but apparently you didn't even read it.

Score: 0

By Niro

edited Nov 26, 2005 - 1:56 AM

" haha, somebody in marketing give credible info? they're not selling these units at a loss."

Your whole argument is based on "MS not selling these units at a loss"...you listed SOME (not even ALL!) materials to back up your statement and he proved you wrong...that's all there is to it.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 11:50 PM

On the contrary... you tried to argue that the article was wrong. I not only pointed out that you were the one who was incorrect, and then went on to prove that it wasn't just the cost of materials that was at issue.

Score: 0

By Hoff1630

edited Nov 23, 2005 - 2:33 PM

Good job for IBM!

Score: 0

By psybersoma

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 3:46 AM

you guys are smoking crack.. M$ ain't losing anything on the 360. the thing is made in communist china by slave labor. almost all the components are made in china as well expect for a few parts... when suppliers can sell the premium units for $275 each in lots of 5, you know damn well it don't cost that much to make. the numbers are highly inflated just like the stock market. and there certainly isn't no shortage. WSJ had a story a week ago that said M$ has 5 factories in China making the XBOX 360 and since Sept. 1st they were churning out tens of thousands of them each day.. so do your math. 75 days since Sept. 1st and the tens of thousands claimed to be churning out. They have well over a few million ready for sale... M$ is holding back the supply to inflate the demand... and it's working...

Score: 0

By TheBeastH6

posted Nov 29, 2005 - 11:11 AM

Slave labor = 5/5 stars

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

edited Nov 25, 2005 - 12:09 PM

Why does this debate have to happen with every major system release? It happened with the original Xbox, Playstation 1 and 2, as well.

Anyone who foolishly believes that there isn't a loss on the cost of the hardware doesn't have a clue about how businesses operate.

The simple reality is that these companies make their money on the services--- the Xbox Live network fees, the game licenses, etc etc-- not the hardware.

As I've told others... do your homework and know what you're talking about before you post rants like this. If you looked at the Annual Report for Microsoft for last fiscal year, you'd know that one of Microsoft's biggest "drains" is the Xbox.

Microsoft doesn't care though, for now, because they're in this for the long run. Over the long term, they know they're going to be making money from the services involved.

Score: 0

By eclipsingdivinity

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 5:15 PM

Ahh, this isn't news to me. Microsoft is famous for taking losses with the original X-Box. And they can do it too, they are filthy stinkin' rich.

Their original plan for taking such a huge loss was to muscle their way into the market. Now they are doing this to sucker punch Sony in the groin.

And to clear things up, not every console manufacturer takes losses on their systems. Nintendo generally doesn't take losses, and they make it clear. They end up sacrificing raw power for innovation, which is of course...cheaper.

Score: 0

By jojosupp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 2:24 PM

Slave labor! Woooo! What century are you living in kid? This is Microsoft, not Nike...

Score: 0

By rijp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 11:43 AM

Are you pulling this info out of your ass? I have a marketing rep that works with MS, they know the head of the Research and Development team. First of all, China may have 5 factories, but they can't produce 10's of thousdands a day.. I don't care how much slave labor they use. MAYBE 10,000 a month. Then, the XBox costs over 550 dollars EACH, you twit. The orginal Xbox costs MS over 400 to make, and they sold those for 299 orginally and as low as $129.00. So they were losing on the other Xbox from day one. They make it up in licensing software, why do you think MS wants to get vendors? So they can get licenses.

And shipping those units, even though they are manufactured, is a whole nother matter. Packaging, shipping, marketing, delivering.. You obviously don't know anything about supply chain.

So go back and play with your game boy, because you are not ready for an Xbox. Just because you are jealous you didn't get an XBox 360, don't try and slam the product. They aren't holding anything.

And you have a VERY short memory, EVERY new console from Xbox, Sony PS2, Dreamcast, Commodore, Atari, Gamecube, they ALL do the same thing, EVERY new product.. It takes time to ship and get ALL the units ready to sell. You can't produce 10 million units if you can't sell your first million, then you just wasted all that money, its called supply and demand. They ramp up production, get enough units to generate interest and go from there.

So pipe down, because your knowledge of what's going on, is severely lacking.

Score: 0

By twosheds

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 12:38 PM

Easy on the coffee there....

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 10:52 PM

All professional trolls inject their coffee direct.

Score: 0

By VikingBlade

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 10:08 AM

So... you are saying that somehow the Xbox 360 is magically cheaper than the production of the Xbox (which MS still hasn't made profit from yet).
That somehow they are able to buy silicon wafers for cheaper than any other company, and have significantly better yields than Intel or AMD?

Score: 0

By Mark Gillespie

edited Nov 24, 2005 - 11:02 AM

Yields for the ex-box360 will be VERY low compared to Intel and AMD desktop CPU's, as desktop CPU's get graded by speed capabilites. Console CPU's either work, or get scrapped...

Score: 0

By excelon2005

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 1:31 AM

Oh, they're gonna get even more red as the players see this stinker's instability... :(

Score: 0

By Don Juan

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 3:05 AM

Yeah, can prolly blame most of that fault on ATI.

Score: 0

By roj

edited Nov 24, 2005 - 12:08 PM

Either one of you kidz (excelon2005 / Don Juan) got ANY proof of those allegations?

Thought not.

Just fanboiz shooting off their mouths again...

Score: 0

By excelon2005

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 10:51 PM

Here's the proof you're looking for: http://news.google.com/?...Full%2BReport&hl=en

As much as I love Linux and open-source, the unreliability makes me wince because what profession will be blamed for this? Engineering, one way or another. What profession am I aspiring to be? Electrical Engineering.

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:13 PM

So the reports of the Xbox 360 overheating because some morons placed the ventilation directly on the floor/desk/whatever and blocking off the airsupply qualify the system itself as "unstable" ?

Wow... that's profound.

Score: 0

By roj

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 9:51 AM

Eh, minor stuff. It's to be expected that a few units will be gonzo when that many are dumped out on the mass market. Now if 10% or more are FUBAR then THAT is a problem.

As to EE, good profession to be in. And no, we don't blame 'em when things go wrong.

Score: 0

By Niro

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 1:06 AM

Yea...proof of what?? That some people got defective consoles?? Is that a surprise?? All electronics you buy have a risk of being DOA...you got a few xbox 360's out of a million that are crashing and suddenly "oh there's a big problem with the xbox's!!"...the 360 is such big news and is so limited in supply right now that ofcourse you're gonna hear about every one that's defective.

Just about all new hardware releases have initial production problems.

PSP had a problem with the screen, how many people bought a PSP with dead pixels?? I traded mine in twice to get one that had no dead pixels. Didn't the PS2 had some problems with its CD drive? Matter of fact I think the PS2 had alot of problems...there were 12 revisions to that console.

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By JacenSolo

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 11:52 PM

I don't see what the fuss is over the Xbox 360.

I own the original xbox and must say that, while I think it's good, I prefer PC gaming over any console.

Through... one thing my PC provides that my Xbox doesn't is extreme graphics lag and freezing... *walks about muttering*

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 9:17 PM

My problem with Xbox isn't the system or company that makes it... in fact, the specs of the system are outstanding.

My issue is that I'm an RPG kinda person (single player, not multi-player), and the number of enjoyable RPG's on Xbox is exactly... zero. Should that change, I will look into it more.

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By roj

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 9:52 AM

Your problem is that single player RPG is a dying breed. It's like the old Freespace saga - going, going...

...gone.

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:15 PM

That's not really true at all... there are actually a lot more RPG's today than there were back in the day. You should check out a site like RPGamer.com if you need more evidence that there are plenty of RPG's out.

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By roj

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:30 PM

Carefully re-read what I wrote. I said "single" player RPG. RPG is indeed increasing but the trend is multiplayer online RPG and that will only accellerate.

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By Niro

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 2:07 AM

Nope...single player RPG's are FAR from dead, there are MANY GOOD single player RPG's out right now and many more coming out soon (heavy hitters oblivion and NWN2 comes to mind). MMORPG's are popular ofcourse (look at WoW! 3.5 Million subscibers!) but it's certainly not a "replacement" for single player rpg's, it's a different market and a completely different play style...there's room for both. :)

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 2:12 PM

I read and understood what you said... I was stating that you are incorrect. :)

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By JacenSolo

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 3:35 AM

Star Wars: Knights of the old republic. Star Wars: Knights of the old republic 2.

Just to name 2 RPGs.

Enjoyable, even if your not a SW fan ^_^

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By bourgeoisdude

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 3:02 PM

Fable too...

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:14 PM

So why would I play them on Xbox when they're also available on PC or Playstation?

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By roj

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:31 PM

Less hassle than a PC, better audio and graphics than a Playstation.

Not too hard to figure out.

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 2:14 PM

Not really less hassle than PC considering that Tech is my life, so I keep up with the hardware. I've seen plenty of dazzling effects on both systems in terms of graphics, and as far as sound goes-- that's really more dependent on the quality of your TV or stereo system, wouldn't you say?

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By Niro

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 1:08 AM

MS has key developers that worked on the final fantasy series making two games for the 360. It won't be "final fantasy", but it might as well be considering the developers. I don't have the details, but I'm sure you can find it.

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 12:16 PM

As I said, if something worthwhile comes out on Xbox, I'll reconsider my intentions to purchase one. :)

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By Shadowb170

edited Nov 24, 2005 - 2:18 AM

I agree in that I enjoy X-Box, however,
find PC Games better. The one major reason for
this is, Console's don't let players make maps,
levels, and the things that usually make a game
thrive. Take starcraft, warcraft, duke3d, doom, doom2, 3, heretic, unrealtournament, simcity(all versions), the sims(all versions). They all allowed making maps or levels, and all thrived.
And on Consoles, they all were stuck with default maps.
(unless bonus packs or xbox live updates count, I count them as bonus defaults.)

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By roj

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 12:10 PM

They don't need to make maps. All they need is to be hooked online to a server and have the admins make maps.

Done deal.

And that IS the marketing model of the future.

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By rijp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 11:50 AM

There are 2 major benefits to a console. Patch level and hacking.

Everyone with a console with the same game, is on the SAME exact revision. There is not difference.

ALL consoles play at the same level (at least at the time of production)

And you can't hack a console game and put cheats like you can on a PC. That's why people like console gaming..

ITs basically an even playing field. Another reason why games like online game play..

I like PC game better myself, console games also appeal to those families that can't afford to buy a new video card, hard drive, OS, and CPU every few months, so you buy a console game for 400, and you are done. Nothing else to buy.

That's where the appeal comes in.

I would wager, your machine is probably a lot like many games, like myself, we invest hundreds, maybe thousands to build the perfect PC, so of course your machine and my machine would be better, because we built them with our own specs..

But you are on your own with respect to compatibility.

A console game doesn't suffer from these problems, all the games are compatibile, all the games work the same way, and all the games play the same way, all this for 3 or 4 hundred bucks..

Not a bad deal if you have 3 or 4 children.. buy a new game every now and then and you are good.

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By ogman

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 10:55 PM

Damn, just when I'm convinced that you are totally useless...you go and make sense! Well said!

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By JacenSolo

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 3:41 AM

For once I don't have much reason to argue with rijp.

"There are 2 major benefits to a console. Patch level"
Patch level is a problem is a bug or exploit is found.

"And you can't hack a console game and put cheats like you can on a PC. That's why people like console gaming.."
You can, but it's not easy and can break the console.

"I like PC game better myself, console games also appeal to those families that can't afford to buy a new video card, hard drive, OS, and CPU every few months, so you buy a console game for 400, and you are done. Nothing else to buy."
I know what you mean here. All my hardware is at least 2 years out of date cause I don't have the money to buy new stuff.

And I was wrong when I said above that my Xbox doesn't lag. Today, it offered a bit of lag during a major battle. (A bit meaning 2 minutes worth :( )

"Not a bad deal if you have 3 or 4 children.. buy a new game every now and then and you are good."
If you have children, you really should be encouraging them to go out and play with other kids, spend time outside instead of couped up in front of a TV/Computer/Console ^_^

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By GoodThings2Life

posted Nov 26, 2005 - 11:57 PM

Hmm, if I listened to my parents every time they told me to get off the computer/game system and go outside... I'd have been one miserable kid, lol... I hate being outside any longer than I have to be. :)

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By googun

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 5:48 AM

I agree. The lack of map-making on consoles is a let-down. Map-making in Unreal Tournament gave the product several more years of life than it would otherwise have had. It also gave developers a useful insight into what gamers atually wanted. They've even been known to recruit good map-makers. Age of Empires offered a new map every time, which is why I still play it today.
On the plus side, I think PGR3 is to include the ability to make custom tracks, which can then be played solo or shared online via Xbox Live.

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By shy_one

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 4:11 PM

These consoles have hard drives so custom maps are not totaly out of the question in fact Microsoft would be smart to do it as a feature if you and your friends have the same custom maps xbox live could hook you up together of course you would need a gold subscrition to do it.

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By dsb23a

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 10:24 PM

Got mine in today. So far I like it. Been playing CD 2. Great game. Did I mention the xBox was free! Joined 360forfree.com and signed up for a free trial of efax (which I canceled) and received it today. Highly recommend the site.

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By ogman

posted Nov 25, 2005 - 10:58 PM

I smell fresh, hot SPAM!

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By rijp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 11:52 AM

Yeah...sure you did. Whatever, he is promoting the 360forfree.com site..

Don't believe the hype..

I don't believe you won a free Xbox, sorry.

They aren't going to give you a free Xbox for nothing, you have to sign up for credit cards, stuff you won't use, trips.. Yeah, you got a free Xbox.. Whatever.

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By phaedrusone

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 5:10 AM

how many referals did you need?

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By jojosupp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 2:19 AM

I bet. Can somebody delete his post? He's advertising like all the other scumbags for their stupid free scam sites.

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By pccromeo2006

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 9:27 PM

Microsoft might as well not even bother working so hard on the Xbox. They will build another empire that within 10 years they will abandon, just like they're doing with MSN.

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By mlevit

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 3:52 AM

Dude they are not abondoning MSN they are renaming it to Windows Live Messenger.

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By amed

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 8:54 PM

Seems like IBM screwed microsoft sony and revolution with their expensive cpu. I wounder if Sony or Microsoft evens knew that IBM was also making a processor for their rival. Imagine IBM's face at E3.. lol "um um it wasn't me"

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By jsc315

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 8:36 PM

well that what sony is doing. what the PS3 is goign to sell for is going to cost them about at leat 3 times what its going to sell when it comes out.

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By treworld

posted Nov 23, 2005 - 7:58 PM

Give me a break... I'm sure Microsoft and the other companies had a deal. Plus, they buy these stuff in bulk (millions) anyways... I'm sure they get a 60% discount on everything. It probably only costed Microsoft $145.99 per Xbox 360 core system.

Again, we're talking about Microsoft here; the software supergiant. They're not stupid. They wouldn't sell you a product that would COST them more money to make.

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By rijp

posted Nov 24, 2005 - 11:56 AM

You are the one that is stupid.. MS isn't looking to make money on hardware.. they never have.

They are looking to get you BUY software, so they reduce the cost to the consumer for buying the hardware, because you won't KEEP buying it, you only buy it once, but NOW there are hundreds of games that you COULD potentially buy, and each one is 50 bucks. That's where they make the money..

This is the same strategy other companies use, its called marketing. They will give away a Razor. Make you KEEP buying the blades for life.. that's how it works. When you graduate, junior high, maybe you can take a night class in community college for Economics, then maybe you will learn something.

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By ogman

edited Nov 27, 2005 - 4:56 PM

Yup, it's the printer business model; sell the printer for nothing, make money on the ink. Although, with Microsoft you have to believe they have a little something else in mind, like complete monopoly, world domination, something like that.

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