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Microsoft Slapped with 280.5m Euro Fine

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

July 12, 2006, 10:47 AM

As expected, the European Commission on Tuesday slapped Microsoft with a 280.5 million euro fine for continuing non-compliance with its March 2004 antitrust decision. While right now that figure comes to 1.5 million euros per day for the period between December 15 and June 20, the EU has threatened to increase the fine to 3 million per day if Microsoft is not compliant by the end of the month.

Microsoft's lack of progress and contempt for the Commission pushed regulators to take action against the company. Last year, the EU gave Microsoft until December 15 to come into compliance or face a 2 million euro per day fine. Instead of settling with the EC, the Redmond giant made a series of moves apparently aimed at embarrassing the Commission, including the release of confidential documents.

At a press conference announcing the EC's decision, competition commissioner Neelie Kroes said Microsoft's defense that the antitrust decision is vague in what it asks was unfounded, as its wording was clear in what it asked of the company. "And in order to increase the incentive for Microsoft to comply, the Commission has decided the ceiling for potential fines will be raised," she added.

Kroes has been frustrated with Microsoft's lack of compliance, and has even taken steps to personally meet with Microsoft executives to settle the spat. In a statement made before Wednesday's press conference, Kroes attempted to make it clear that the EC and EU had done all it could before the fines were imposed.

"I regret that, more than two years after the decision, and despite an order from the president of the Court of First Instance that the Microsoft appeal to the court does not suspend Microsoft's obligation to comply, Microsoft has still not put an end to its illegal conduct," the statement read.

In a statement issued Wednesday morning, Microsoft again repeated its defense that a fine was unnecessary and called the decision vague. Additionally, it said it did all it could to comply with the EU's demands.

"The fine announced today is larger than the fines the Commission has imposed for even the most severe competition law infringements, such as price- fixing cartels," general counsel Brad Smith said. "When you consider Microsoft's massive efforts to comply with this ruling, and the fact that more than a dozen companies are already using similar documentation provided in the U.S. to ship actual products, we do not believe this fine is justified."

JupiterResearch senior analyst and Microsoft pundit Joe Wilcox said that both sides have their reasons to argue over the decision's specifics. "[Microsoft] has many reasons why it shouldn't want to license the protocols, such as Microsoft historical practices on licensing technology of this type or philosophical positions about licensing in general," he said. "Likewise, the EU has good reason to demand the licensing."

Microsoft said it plans to appeal the fine in the EU's Court of First Instance.

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By iconoclast

edited Jul 19, 2006 - 10:13 PM

I,as a North American, living in Canada, would be in agreeement that MS should lower the price of their OS. On the other hand, one reason I have never bought a Mac is because of the proprietary hardware required (tho' there was a brief period before Jobs cama back where there were attempts a cloning or whatever). Linux has never been a real option for many, because of the lack of Photoshop type apps, the GIMP not being sufficient. I think I see tho' a lot of gloating here by EU types, who think the big evil empire, led by Darth Ballmer, is getting it's comeuppance from the rebel EU Skywalker force. Most of it of course is founded in envy.I would tell the EU that if they don't like M$ business model, they're free to fund any other one of their choice and see if they can on their own, develop a success story like Gates did. It's like those who slag, say, (name a major musical artist here), because they're hugely successful and say they're not fans of this music. Fine! don't buy it! But unless you can go out and write hit after hit, shut up! The old saying should be amended to: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, b**** and moan and devise ways to inflict penalties.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Jul 13, 2006 - 2:36 PM

Okay. Suddenly this issue is secondary--what the EU has just announced is nothing short of the road towards a dictatorship: http://www.betanews.com/...lit_Sony_BMG/1152811843

So, it appears that the EU truly is corrupt, based on this. I don't even care much about Sony/Sony BMG, but now the EU is trying Sony for the same "crime" twice. How can they get away with this? Or perhaps the better question is, why are Europeans letting them get away with this?

Score: 0

By spef

posted Jul 14, 2006 - 3:18 AM

What's wrong with it then? MS is not obbeying the law and the Sony BMG merger, which had been approved by the European Commision, has been fought in court (European Court of First Instance) and found to be void. Surely you as an american must understand all about lawsuits and such.

Score: 0

By spiked

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 1:21 PM

There is a book "AOL for Dummies" which contains 384 pages. Would YOU need such a book? No? Then why does it exist? Simply because there are many different audiences in the computing world. I would like to think that most of us can figure out AOL using 1 page (the little one with your sign-up password on it), but there are honestly some people who need 384 pages.

The EU has never claimed that Microsoft refused to deliver ANY documentation, only that Microsoft's documentation was "not good enough." Today, the Commissioner insisted that Microsoft's instructions under the March 2004 order were "crystal clear." I went hunting for the exact order, not the paraphrasing or summarizing we get from the press.

Surprise! It turns out that the press summaries were essentially the ENTIRE order. Here it is, straight off the EU web site: "supply complete and accurate interface information which would allow non-Microsoft work group servers to achieve full interoperability with Windows PCs and servers."

Nobody has disputed that it was in April 2006 when the EU's monitoring trustee met with Microsoft to provide a template for each protocol with specific sections required (glossary, references, description, relationship to other protocols, etc). They also identified a specific organization or grouping for the protocols and established milestone dates for delivering the docs for each group. Nobody has disputed that Microsoft has been complying 100% with those deliveries.

What the EU is saying today is that the April plan is irrelevant in terms of the fine. They are fining Microsoft based on non-compliance as of December 15 (four months prior to Microsoft receiving the template). In other words, the EU needs AOL for Dummies but wants Microsoft to pay for it.

Lastly, here's something I don't see any of the press covering: where the money goes. Again, this is straight from the EU web site: "The penalty payment is paid into the EU Budget. It does not increase the Budget, but reduces the contribution from Member States. The fines therefore reduce the overall tax burden on individuals."

Europe, congratulations on your tax cut, compliments of American business.

Score: 0

By iamtux

posted Jul 14, 2006 - 12:24 AM

Bravo!

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 2:27 PM

Best. Comment. Ever.

Score: 0

By davewalden

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 11:03 AM

While I know this will not happen, I would love to see Microsoft refuse to pay this so called fine and then declare that they are closing shop in the EU. The insuing drama in the EU as companies scrambled to find operating systems, office suites, etc. would be like watching a night time sitcom.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 9:17 AM

Here's a semi serious question...

If Microsoft chooses to just not pay the fine, what can the EU really do about it?

Stop them from doing business in the EU? No, not likely. The people would revolt.

Impose a tax on all Microsoft’s products? No, that would just hurt the end users.

Throw Microsoft in jail? Who are you going to throw in jail? Bill?

Impose more fines?

Pressure the American Govt to persuade Microsoft to pay. No, I'm sure Microsoft could lobby (pay,) their way out of that for much less than the fines.

Seriously, what can the EU REALLY do other than give Microsoft a bad name?

Score: 0

By ^M^

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 11:07 AM

"If Microsoft chooses to just not pay the fine, what can the EU really do about it?"

First, no corporation with a future would ever do that.
It's just after "sending dog poo to your best customer" in the "Fun, but not so bright things to do".

EC would ask EU and US juridiction to freeze MS's bank accounts. Then they would seize what MS owes them.
At last they would send Cheese to Bill gates till he dies.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 11:24 AM

At last they would send Cheese to Bill gates till he dies.

rofl - where did that come from?

Score: 0

By ^M^

posted Jul 14, 2006 - 1:23 PM

Sorry, I'm French, couldn't help this one.

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 10:02 AM

"Seriously, what can the EU REALLY do other than give Microsoft a bad name?"

it would give America a bad name, not just MS.

"Pressure the American Govt to persuade Microsoft to pay."

and yes, the American Gov. would step in for the EU.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 2:30 PM

it would give America a bad name, not just MS.

MS != US

Don't make that mistake again, or I shall have to hurt you. Thank you.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Jul 13, 2006 - 4:20 PM

I agree MS!=US.
I live in the US, and I trust MS more ;)

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 9:08 AM

What's next if Microsoft continues to refuse to provide useful documentation, and refuses to pay the fine?

Can the EU stop the sale of Microsoft products?

Can they arrest or issue arrest warrents for Ballmer and other executives?

Or will they cancel the grant of copyrights and patents to Microsoft and let everybody copy, sell, reverse engineer, and modify Microsoft products without compensation to Microsoft?

Microsoft is in much worse shape than anyone has guessed if 120,000 man hours are not enough to document a few network protocols. If you belive they have made a sincere effort I have an object-oriented file system you might want to buy.

Score: 0

By Neoprimal

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 2:09 AM

I hope they don't bother selling Vista over there. Let them get it through their own means - or let them all use Linux. This is complete BS and just a way to squeeze some money out of a company that can pay it.

Score: 0

By The-One

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 10:55 PM

What really sucks is all this money will go the EU, I'd rather have it go the US for more tax breaks, personnally :)

Just give MS time, they need to find the "right" judge to dismiss this for them, legally of course .. wink :)

Honestly, I can't feel sorry for MS. Feel sorry for those developers of Netscape, WordPerfect, Borland, Novell, etc.. who lost their jobs because MS illegally used their monopoly to put these companies out, or nearly out, of business. Those are the ones I feel for.

Score: 0

By RingMaster

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 8:40 PM

First of all, Microsoft does not have to comply with the EU. It is an American company. The fine is total bunk.

Score: 0

By Tenoq

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 8:55 PM

I suppose Microsoft doesn't sell their software to anyone but Americans then too?

*rolls eyes*

Score: 0

By RingMaster

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 9:00 PM

American company, only American laws apply. Maybe because of this Microsoft should halt the release of Vista in Europe.

Score: 0

By Intrusive_Rogue

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 9:07 AM

Right, if I kill someone in CA, and live in TX I'm not guilty of any crime because my sole residence is in TX.

And if I'm in a foreign country and spray paint some graffiti on a wall, there's no way I'll get caned for it.

:Rolleyes: Whatever genius.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:05 PM

Umm... you might want to read up on your law books.

Anywhere a business does its *business*, it has to follow all applicable laws. If MS were not selling its product in Europe, then yes, they are completely free to ignore the European Commission.

But MS, is in Europe...

Score: 0

By Astroceltikov

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 9:05 PM

Yes, and in the War on Terror, since the prisoners are being held on American territory, only American laws apply. Right? Well, the Supreme Court doesnt think so...

Score: 0

By Astroceltikov

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 7:49 PM

Whats this? Are you saying Microsoft is not a monopoly or is not a trust? Great! Then Im just going to go out to the software store and buy Warcraft III for Linux. Or maybe Microsoft Word for UNIX. Oh wait, I cant, I can only get products for Windows. That means that there is no longer free market competition in the realm of software, and that governments need to step in to protect consumers from high prices, like say $199 for an OS.

But wait, Im not a European citizen! Oh no, Im not going to bash the EU just because I think its cool and I cant understand simple facts. I see a government serving the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, not the will of a corporation.

When the "invisible hand" of free markets doesnt exist, the "hand of justice" needs to intervene.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 8:01 PM

By your logic, Nintendo has a monopoly on the console market because I can't play Super Mario Brothers Part 9000 on a PS2. Just because Blizzard chooses to not make its game for Linux, Unix, BSD, does not make MS a monopoly; and just because MS choose to not make a Linux version of office does not make them a monopoly. Not anymore than Chevy is a monopoly for not making parts for Toyotas.

The fact is that there are games for Linux, and productivity software for Linux. Linux and its software just can't compete.

Score: 0

By Astroceltikov

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 9:03 PM

Why would companies not choose to make games for other OSes? Because they arent profitable? Why would that be? Because not many people use that OS? And why would that be? Because they cant buy the software they want for the other OSes?

I dont think your clever argument gets you anywhere. Seriously, lets play a little brain game for a second. Consider that you want to move all of your stuff over to another OS and only use that OS. Pretend that you want to use the software that your friends use, even the latest stuff. Can it be done on another OS? No? Still think Microsoft if not a monopoly?

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 1:23 PM

You still have the choice. If you want to "use the software that your friends use, even the latest stuff" you have to have their kind of system. So you want to play Mario? Well, you better have a Nintendo system. You want to use your save games from one type of console to play a cross-console game on another type of console. Hey, you can't, console A has a monopoly because your data isn't portable. Your arguments fall apart at every level.

If I get a special paint job done to my car, or get special seat covers, the manufacturer of my car is not a monopoly because I cannot take the paint job with me, nor are they when the seat covers do not fit.

Let's think about a theoritical OS called S#!++yOS. So because no one makes games for S#!++yOS, because no one uses S#!++yOS that makes Slighty-S#!++yOS a monopoly? Ever think S#!++yOS might be relegated to obscurity because it is S#!++y. Maybe there is no software for people to buy because it is too difficult to develop for, and by too difficult I do not mean that the availible programmers are not smart enough; but that the time they have to spend doing the boring trivial tasks to get anything non-boring, non-trivial done is not worth it. Not when they can program it for slighty-S#!++yOS in half the time, and get 90% of the performance, more user responsiveness, and one of the best environments to maintain and develop applications around.

Score: 0

By cjackson27

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:17 PM

The fact that the majority of software development is done for the Windows platform doesn't make Microsoft a monopoly. Microsoft has no control over what platforms third party applications are developed for, nor should they. Developers are free to develop for any platform they'd like, it's their choice.

As for Microsoft's own applications, are you suggesting that they should be forced to develop for every OS out there, so that your suggested scenario would work? Are you then suggesting that a regulatory agency should have direct control over how a product is developed, thereby taking creative freedom out of the hands of the creators? I think you need to take a step back and think about the implications of what you are suggesting.

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 10:15 AM

Microsoft IS a monopoly.

"Monopolies are characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods"

when companies become monopolies, they have the ability to influence governments.
there are laws in America to prevent this. they're just not working.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 12:56 PM

So you are saying the Linuxes and MacOS are not viable alternatives?

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 1:15 PM

right

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By Grazer

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 1:25 PM

then we agree

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By shy_one

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 7:02 PM

Anti comeptitive bull Microsoft made the OS and deserve the advantage as long as you can install other programs on windows that in its self is more that enough of an open invitation saying top that to the competition but the competition is too lazy and whining that they want to use Microsofts instead of creating their own.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 8:06 PM

YES!!! That is exactly it, as far as I am concerned MS shouldn't even have to support anyone programming for their OS; but they choose to, in fact, their choice to do so is what has gotten them where they are...their over abundant availbility of software didn't just materialize out of thin air.

They have provided a consistent platform friendly to end users and developers alike, where Unix and Linux vendors/providers have failed to provide consistency or user friendliness.

Score: 0

By The-One

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:45 PM

What? Are you serious? Ever heard of Samba? NTFS? Undocumented Windows "features"?

Hmm... someone is saying something they don't understand. It's sad that the EU did what the US govt should have done.

Score: 0

By Grazer

edited Jul 13, 2006 - 1:10 PM

Yes I have heard of Samba, will it work with my hardware? Is there someplace I can look to find out...WITHOUT spending hours and hours research on the net? And what makes it better than Fedora, Mandrake, DSL, or even FreeBSD(yes I know its not linux)? This is my point about consistency. With windows, I know what I am getting.

Do you actually know the reason the UNIXes failed? Competing vendors couldn't agree on a way to do things. What worked with one version might not work with another...even if they were the same vendor. Companies could barely even think of upgrading once their systems were up and running, and end users might have to relearn the system if it ever was upgraded. (If you disagree with this then you think most every CS textbook has a revisionist view of history.)

What is wrong with NTFS? I have never have a file go corrupt, get lost due to a loss of power, and my drives don't fragment that much.

You seem to think I am saying windows is perfect. Anyone who doesn't like MS or windows seems to think windows users blindly follow MS and are oblivious to the OS's flaws. In my case, and I am pretty sure most MS/Windows defenders you find here, I do not believe MS or Windows is perfect. I acknowledge there are flaws with the OS, but it is still the best solution to my needs.

I always laugh at the "think different" logo Apple has used. It appeals to everyone's desire to "be an individual, just like all their friends"; yet, when you think about it, different does not necessarily mean better...and in most cases, like mutation, means worse.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 4:16 PM

Should do for now until the same suite comes in for Vista :P

The EU pot just got bigger thanks to MS, and as a UK resident this is a change to us funding them. Rightly or wrongly the EU has there teeth in MS, and as far as i can see they view them as a cash cow thats ready for milking.

MS Wont pull out of EU, they earn more out of the EU then this fine costs, and the EU sees there dominance as anti competitive and has forced MS to open it up or face the music. With the dominance of MS it was bound to happen, and as they say "Money makes the world go round" and so in the EU they have to power to force MS to comply.

Obviously the US people dont like the EU flexing there power into forcing MS into anything, but its here, its happening, and things will change because of it. And this will benefit the whole industy and you will have the EU to thank.

Bow down to the EU ... It Owned you !!

Score: 0

By KSzostek

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 3:53 PM

I think microsoft should completly pull out of Europe for awhile and let the son of a bi*ches fend for themselves until they beg them to come back.

Will it cost microsoft sure but it's time someone stands up to the EU and MS is just the one that could.

Score: 0

By spef

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 6:56 AM

Why pull out... at the rate that MS works they soon won't be allowed to sell their products in the EU anymore :p

Score: 0

By Sensi

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 8:06 PM

It is funny how some USA's ignorants proudly like to be as ridiculous as pathetic.
You are one of them.

FYI the EU sued Microsoft after a complaint from another USA's company, Sun Microsystems, then by RealNetworks, mainly because anti-trust justice in USA seems as corrupted as inept in regulating trusts, which is however a prerogative to have a real competition and thus a -really- free market.

cf. for a timeline: http://www.informationwe...tml?articleID=190302510

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 4:38 PM

lol , sure they will.

MS pull out of EU and:

1) Everyone wanting to use MS will be forced to pirate it. Result: More pirate copies of MS software and EU will do jack about it.

2) MS Software will lose market share and provide a cash boost to other OS. Result: A real opertunity for other OS's to gain global power and force increased global market share as it becomes more user aware.

3) It will effect every software manufacturers profits as they will be forced to invest in there software development in more OS formats.

4) MS lose billions in lost revenue.

Anyone thinking of such a thing has lost all reality or knows little about PC's.

Score: 0

By justinb

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 4:25 PM

They'd probably fine them if they did that :P

Score: 0

By mnovak

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 3:44 PM

Everyone likes to make a buck.

Score: 0

By skags442

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:51 PM

why is microsoft even fighting this ?

why dont they just buy the EU

Score: 0

By The-One

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:47 PM

The US Senators and Courts cost so much, they didn't have any more money for this kind of thing .. just wait after Vista's release, they just might :)

Score: 0

By Paul Skinner

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 6:43 PM

They aren't fighting the EU because they haven't complied (most probably).

However, do you have any idea what you are talking about, as you suggest buying the EU as an alternative.
Do you think you can buy the police force as a whole? No.
Whether they have or haven't complied I don't care. I'm a UK resident, and I don't give a monkeys if they do the rather ridiculous act of pulling out of the EU and losing market share, money, and respect (heh, I said respect).
Either they obey, take the fine, make some more money, comply, and shut up; or they battle against the fine, get a bigger fine, get told to comply or their product is not welcome in the EU (getting implausible now), and end up with much less money and market share.

Score: 0

By cjackson27

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:23 PM

I think someone needs to learn how to take a joke.

Score: 0

By themanhimself

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:00 PM

No matter if its right or wrong.. the creeps at the EU reeping in the dollars.. dam sad really.. I agree M$ is a tad of a bully, but this reeks of "the vested interest". Who gets all the money??? THE EU!

Score: 0

By The-One

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:48 PM

I agree completely!

The US govt should have fined them instead and gave me more tax breaks :)

Score: 0

By ladylust

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 1:54 PM

Tax Write off... thats a drop in the bucket to them, Bill Gates could write the check and laugh it off. At 6% interest Bill Gates makes more a year on his money then this fine LOL

Go MS!

Score: 0

By M1M2Z1

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:40 PM

Fines aren't tax deductible nor any associated legal fees.

Score: 0

By The-One

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:49 PM

With the kind of money they have, they can definitely find lawyers to help them do just this.

Score: 0

By Spyderloco

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 1:37 PM

Haha!

Microsoft sucks.

Maybe they should try making an OS that costs $120 like the MacOS instead of one that costs $300.

MS needs taught a lesson anyway.

Score: 0

By twosheds

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 8:49 PM

I agree to an extent, XP is madly overpriced and Apple are to be commended BUT...

...Apple charge for every 'nudgegrade' (10.2,10.3 etc), equivalent to service packs/and updates which MS provide for free until a major new release.

Score: 0

By xyzcb1

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 6:46 PM

Of course they only charged you $120 for the OS, they charged you twice for their hardware. They should make their OS available for free for the price of their hardware and their compatibility list. Why people even bother to pay money for something like that.

Score: 0

By Paul Skinner

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 6:44 PM

Plus £1000 for a Mac...

Score: 0

By KSzostek

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 4:15 PM

Hmmmm only cost me $89.00

Score: 0

By jshurst

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:09 PM

Maybe Apple should make one that works with my PC.

Score: 0

By GS5

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 1:18 PM

Every country should have their own personal unlimited M$ ATM card.
And I always thought that M$ was the greedy one.

Score: 0

By The Man

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 12:58 PM

"Instead of settling with the EC, the Redmond giant made a series of moves apparently aimed at embarrassing the Commission, including the release of confidential documents."

quote from "bourgeoisdude" when MS released the court docs

"I believe they (microsoft) released this info for people like us, who are unsure of whether the EU is unreasonable or if MS is just being d***heads. Well--it appears you were convinced MS is not fully at fault here, so mission accomplished.

Sadley this will only infuriate the EU, now they will have no choice but to enforce the "2 million euro per day" fine. That's what I'll expect. I could be wrong."

you were right on the money.
i'm glad this is coming into the open now.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 7:42 PM

The EU published the court documents as well, so I doubt this has anything to do with it.

Google them..

Score: 0

By The Man

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 10:23 AM

i googled them...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047573/

looks kinda lame
lol
:-p

Score: 0

By TC17

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 12:41 PM

Perhaps Microsoft will feel what its like when somone sticks it to you with an insane fee, just like they stick it to us with their insane prices for their software.

But then again, this is still probably pocket change to Microsoft.

Score: 0

By Paul Skinner

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 6:50 PM

You write 40 millions lines of code that does what Windows XP does.
Go on.

Nah, didn't think you could.

Apple make their profit in the Hardware they sell with the OS. You pay £1000 for a laptop and it costs them £500 to make and ship. It almost certainly equals out at total costs.

Microsoft don't sell computers, so they've got to make their money on the software.

You make a product that (apparently) 80% of the world can't live without. You make it that complex, and then you sit back and think "Hmm, I'll sell this for a low amount so that lots of people will buy it".

Everybody wants money, some have a higher buying price than others.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 7:42 PM

Give me 5K employees dedicated to writing code, and I'll give you an OS that could rival XP.

Thanks.

Score: 0

By Grazer

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 8:10 PM

Ever heard of the mythical man month?

Personally, I think MS's problem developing lately is too many programmers working on the same thing.

Score: 0

By avaix

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 1:18 PM

Yeah, it is completely "insane" that a company would actually charge money for a product. Next time I order food at the pub I will insist that it be free of charge. Ditto for all the beer I drink!

The nerve of some companies!!! Next thing you know it'll cost money to heat my home, power my lights, and put gas in my car!

I tell you it is simply unacceptable that everything costs money these days.

Score: 0

By lsproc

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 2:19 AM

Exacly. As the developer of Spybot S&D said, you are only paying for a heap of 0s and 1s.

Why dont Microsoft patent the number 0 and 1. Then they will acutally have a reason to charge.

Imagine a world without money: People will not be paid but they will not need to pay for food or anything else *cough*microsoft products*cough*. Nobody will get money but nobody would need money for anything. Commodore wouldnt have gone bankrupt, I would have an AMD FX60 with GeForce 7600 and this thing would have never been started.

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By Scotch Moose

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 12:37 PM

Feigned confusion may sometimes be an effective legal strategy but this time it didn't work. Microsoft may be able to lie and buy their way out of any significant sanctions here in the US but EC has some backbone.

Score: 0

By BadIronTree

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 12:25 PM

MS suck anyway :P
now give me vista Free in EU :P

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:42 PM

Yeah... smart...

You and the EC guys go to the same school?

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 4:45 PM

From March 2004 to sort or it or pay the penalty.

Smart ?

whos the smartest ?, whos walked out $$$ better off ?, whos the one who will pay ?, whos the smart one to get an extra 3 million a day until they smarten up.

Sounds like our school aint too bad.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 10:10 PM

I was referring to the intelligence of the parent post. The one that said this:

MS suck anyway :P
now give me vista Free in EU :P


Make sense now?

Maybe you did go to the same school.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 3:09 AM

And you honesty thought he was serious ? It was clearly a post for sensitive teddy throwing US people, and you jumped in hook, line, rod and copy of angling times.

Make sense now?

Take a top shelf magazine, turn the lights down and spend 10 minuites happy time ... you need it !.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 12:16 PM

"The fine announced today is larger than the fines the Commission has imposed for even the most severe competition law infringements, such as price- fixing cartels"

Boy, that's a no brainer since MSFT is so large dollar wise.

""I regret that, more than two years after the decision, and despite an order from the president of the Court of First Instance that the Microsoft appeal to the court does not suspend Microsoft's obligation to comply, Microsoft has still not put an end to its illegal conduct," the statement read."

you left out -

"Kroes called the original order "crystal clear." It required interoperability information on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms."

- http://today.reuters.com...=BizArt-C1-ArticlePage1

Score: 0

By lsproc

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 2:25 AM

But if they get fined 3 million € a day then they would get into financial difficulty. In one year they would be fined €1,095,000,000 ($1,392,129,808.35) If I understand correctly that should be 1 billion, 392 million 129 thousand 8 hundreds 8 units and 35 cents

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 13, 2006 - 8:11 AM

Oh well, just like anyone else that breaks the law -- You reap what you sew.

I feel as little for them being fined as I would a bank robber getting the book thrown at them.

They should have complied when they were found in violation, and that's the bottom line.

Score: 0

By smarterthanyou

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:08 PM

Microsoft has been providing detailed SDK's to any software developer that wants one for years. These kits provide everything a software developer needs to make their software fully interoperable with Windows.

Is there some kind of law in Europe that says it's illegal to sell a closed source OS? Apple does a far worse job at providing technical docs about their Mac OS X and earlier operating systems than Microsoft does.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:25 PM

Obviously not "smarterthanyou". There is no requirement to open any source. The SDKs are not available to open source folks that want to build compatability.

Microsoft selected the person in charge of making sure they were compliant, too bad for them that he wasn't in their pocket.

Score: 0

By bourgeoisdude

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 6:00 PM

Convenient argument. I love it when you argue on only one of the aspects of the argument, and completely ignore the big one. Read "smarterthanyou's" post again. Did you miss this:

"Is there some kind of law in Europe that says it's illegal to sell a closed source OS? Apple does a far worse job at providing technical docs about their Mac OS X and earlier operating systems than Microsoft does."

I predict you will refute the second statement and ignor the first one, which is the only important and relevant one IMO as the Apple argument is subjective. Really though, Microsoft has complied with the agreement IMO before it was even imposed:

"When you consider... the fact that more than a dozen companies are already using similar documentation provided in the U.S. to ship actual products, we do not believe this fine is justified."

Score: 0

By fewt

edited Jul 12, 2006 - 6:05 PM

It was stupid, wrong, and not worth the wasted energy.

Thanks.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess you missed the part where I said "There is no requirement to open any source" which addressed his stupid comment about it being illegal.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 4:48 PM

Exactly.

The EU has the balls to do what your own system didnt. Everyone will benefit, software will improve and be better coded.

Its mearlly telling MS to allow others to play on a level playing field, and they will comply.

Score: 0

By Scotch Moose

posted Jul 12, 2006 - 2:21 PM

Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes told reporters "Microsoft did not even come close to providing adequate information" and "The EU Commission cannot allow such illegal conduct to continue indefinitely. No company is above the law"

Score: 0