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No New Command Line for Longhorn

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

June 9, 2005, 12:11 PM

These days, Microsoft seems to be saying more about what vaunted technologies will not make it into Longhorn than those that will. The latest casualty of pressure to get Longhorn out the door and into the hands of customers is Microsoft's new command line scripting shell, known as "Monad" or MSH (Microsoft Shell).

Monad was slated to replace the command line in Windows with an object-oriented technology that rivals shells found on Unix systems. Beta versions of the software have been available to testers since early Longhorn alpha releases, but now Microsoft is looking further down the road with Monad.

"It will take three to five years to fully develop and deliver," said Microsoft Senior Vice President Bob Muglia this week at Tech Ed 2005. "We're also building a next-generation user interface, taking our existing Microsoft Management Console (MMC) technology to the next level in terms of usability."

Monad is a fairly complex endeavor for Microsoft, which has previously focused its attention on the graphical interface while rival server software remains primarily command line based. The idea was to build a Unix-like shell for administrators that offers advanced scripting capabilities while remaining easy to program.

"[Monad] will exceed what has been delivered in Linux and Unix for many years," said Muglia.

Despite not making the cut for Longhorn in 2006 and Longhorn Server in 2007, Microsoft is still finding uses for Monad technology. Microsoft Watch reports that Exchange 12 administration functions will be built atop Monad, which would enable users to do everything from the command line that can be done from the graphical interface.

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By janotech

edited Apr 28, 2006 - 1:25 PM

You should see Janotech Korn Shell for Windows!

Score: 0

By stephe

edited Jun 14, 2005 - 6:11 PM

I blogged this one.
http://stephesblog.blogs...06/monad_lucovsky_.html

Score: 0

By sqba

edited Jun 11, 2005 - 7:48 AM

In my country there is a saying 'you can't make a pie with s***'. These guys just don't get it and they don't care as long as the money keeps comming in.

Score: 0

By ravi2005

edited Jun 11, 2005 - 4:16 AM

Why can't they just ship a opensource shell like bash or korn shell with longhorn? I believe AT&T has reliesed the korn shell for windows platform already. It would save them all the trouble.

--
http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jun 11, 2005 - 7:18 AM

They should consider integrating cygwin

Score: 0

By mr_nuke

edited Jun 10, 2005 - 6:02 PM

wat so special about this MSH

Score: 0

By Maxwolf

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 8:44 AM

Did any of you trolls ever think for one second how hard it is to be wrong when you answer your own questions?

Score: 0

By cousinkix1953

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 7:35 AM

I downloaded LONGHORN 4015, 4029 and 4074 just to see what's really new. Never could find any new software for the sound card. No drivers for my LAN either. This 3 GHZ machine isn't even a year old and is more than big enough for LONGHORN's needs.

It may be more than Windows XP SP-3 but not enough for me to invest in a new machine and everything else. Windows XP cost more than $300.00 retail; so you can bet that Gates wants even more for his new toy...

Score: 0

By Mark Gillespie

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 5:54 AM

Longhorn features a falling by the wayside. It now looks like Longhorn is going to be little more than XPSP2 with a few new API's

Perhaps it should be re-codenamed LitteHorn..

Score: 0

By eunichman

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 2:57 AM

hmm, scripting from the command line? old technology. been done for years in *nix, OS/2 and every non-MS os.

Score: 0

By athome

edited Jun 13, 2005 - 11:43 AM

Score: 0

By guybru$h

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 7:32 AM

WOW! dood! Really?! Please enlight us a little more!

Score: 0

By dahri

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 9:34 PM

lousy microsoft. i hope the long awaited longhorn will be a near-crash-free-and-near-bug-free, i hate the way my XP goes slower every week, i don't even know why, is it coz software installed? coz i surely doesn't install anything except Ms Office 2003.

Score: 0

By athome

edited Jun 13, 2005 - 11:45 AM

If your PC is getting slower by the week, then it is an end-user problem - not MS. But, I think you knew that. Spouting off in here like that only shows intelligence or lack of.

Score: 0

By Julesword

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 8:21 PM

I think that XP is good enough. I close to never get a crash. I haven't heard of any features in Longhorn that sound like I want or need them. There might even be misfeatures like DRM that would make it worse than XP. I plan not to upgrade.
But I guess Microsoft's profits come from
Office and from deals with OEM's and business more than end users, so even if hardly anyone bought the retail upgrade they would survive.

Score: 0

By Mastertsung

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 2:52 PM

I don't get it, people complaining when they hear positive or negative news about Longhorn. Then running off with comments about OSx or Linux. Microsoft is probably going to release Longhorn 2 maybe 3 months later than their "projected date" as usual. It will have innovative ideads but be a bit buggy and then need security patches. Always the same gig since windows 95. As far as a gui-less server, well datacenter 2000 and 2003 are that way if i remember correctly, so why not. there is no need to "dramatize" a new release of windows.

Score: 0

By athome

posted Jun 13, 2005 - 11:44 AM

IMO . . . They are trying to offer too much in Longhorn, most of which they have no clue on how to get it to work. They need to simplify it or just forget about the timeline and make it work. They are saturating the public with information only to turn around and drop it from the release(or push back the date). I, for one, have heard enough. Don't give us some stripped down version or peice meal.

And of course these guys aren't going to find all drivers for it. HELLO! It's a Beta version. Not finding drivers has nothing to do with testing or helping MS work out bugs. Leave it for the smart ones. Hasn't even been released and there are people that will whine about anything MS.

Score: 0

By eunichman

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 2:58 AM

"Innovative" and MS dont go together. MS only TRIES to replicate what others are doing

Score: 0

By guybru$h

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 7:34 AM

That's funny. I hear that from Linux freaks, but KDE and Gnome try to replicate Windows features as fast as they are released.

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 7:45 AM

Actually, they all do it.

How do you think products mature and become GOOD products?

Think all cars always had a radio? Somebody copied somebody!

What's with "Linux freaks"? You are the one with the problem apparently. ;-)

Score: 0

By guybru$h

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 12:13 PM

Simple. I use Linux, but I don't go out bashing Microsoft for every single move they make. And no, I'm not the only one with the problem (perhaps you should take your head out of your a** for a while)

Score: 0

By fewt

edited Jun 10, 2005 - 8:48 PM

"perhaps you should take your head out of your a** for a while"

Are you sure I'm the one with my head up my ass? ;-)

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Jun 12, 2005 - 2:27 PM

Judging by the stinch of every post you make on this site, yes... we're sure!

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jun 12, 2005 - 3:55 PM

Y'all are the ones hating everyone that doesn't bend over to whatever you say lol!

Score: 0

By guybru$h

posted Jun 13, 2005 - 6:05 AM

Well, you bent enough to stick your head up your ass

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jun 13, 2005 - 7:53 AM

WOW, you sure can tell that it's summer break.

g'night kids.

Score: 0

By guybru$h

posted Jun 14, 2005 - 7:34 AM

G'night a** man!

Score: 0

By ogman

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 4:56 PM

What "projected date" are YOU talking about??? It can't be any of the ones that came out of Microsoft a couple of years ago!

Quote, from Paul Thurrot's Supersite for Windows , "No Microsoft product has ever been delayed as much as Longhorn, and as its ship date slipped from 2004 to 2005 to 2006 and even, according to some rumors, to 2007, Longhorn became less exciting to users and more the object of ridicule."

Score: 0

By slentz

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 2:30 PM

I am ready to see a Shell base MS server. That is one of the resaons that I like using Linux. No BIG GUI. I like the way Novell had there system in a all text mode. I know that Novell is now also using a GUI but that can be disabled. If microsft can creat a server OS that is only text based with mouse support (DOS Shell), that will be nice. Most users don't use the server thus no real need for a nice GUI. Novell has Consol One, Witch MS can use MMC to connect to servers.

No GUI = faster system.

Score: 0

By Pipewrench

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 2:12 PM

Anymore Windows is a joke.

Just wait for Google to release an OS (you know they will) and then use that.

The best/biggest change they made was Windows 2000. After that it's just garbage.

Dummyheads

Score: 0

By athome

edited Jun 13, 2005 - 10:04 AM

Before Google, it will be AOL or Yahoo!

Score: 0

By Kamika007z

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 1:20 AM

I agree, Windows 2000 is my favorite Microsoft OS.

Score: 0

By shy_one

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 7:47 PM

Yes switch to a Google Os when they make one nice and fast oh wait they deal with adware and spyware companies now so your machine will run slow and crash with all that garbage on it.

Google used to be good now that their a real buisness it's just like any other company all about the money.

http://www.betanews.com/...f_Google_Ads/1118333410

Edited added the link Google helps fund adware/spyware companies.

Score: 0

By jobryan26

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 7:12 PM

Windows has been slow and crashing long before Google ever got into the scene.

"Google used to be good now that their a real buisness it's just like any other company all about the money."

Myself nor anyone else has received a bill from Google for anything so I don't know you are talking about and I don't think you do either.

Score: 0

By athome

edited Jun 13, 2005 - 10:06 AM

You need to do some reading on what Google is really doing behind the scene. Read and learn before you open your mouth. You may be out of school for the summer, but don't stop learning.

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 4:20 PM

Okay, this way the hell OT, but you are misinformed, and spreading that misinformation to others and are in dire need to be set right.

Google is NOT and adware/spyware company. Google does NOT spam your inbox with floods of crap ads. they do NOT hijack your browser or OS. They do NOT put annoying flashy-blinky pop-ups all over their pages or on your computer.

They ARE an ad-driven company. They DO place TEXT-BASED, low-key ads in their web-services such as Gmail and google search, but they MUST, because the DO NOT charge you to use them. They DO NOT track your web-usage excepting what is done on THEIR services alone. (The only exception being if you CHOOSE to let them do so via Google-bar)

They have never FORCED an ad on ANYONE. If you don't want to see the ads Google has allowed, DON'T use google. You HAVE a choice.

With adware/spyware, you are have no choice. It is installed/sent without your consent.

Get a clue. Stop spreading trash about one of the only companies left in existance who's main income derives from ads and yet remains unspoiled by adware/spyware measures.

- - end rant.

Score: 0

By athome

posted Jun 13, 2005 - 10:13 AM

No, but based on your searches, will send you to companies that they support, rather than what you really need. HUMMM! They are keeping information on your searches as well as old mail you deleted. HUMMM!

Not to be paranoid, but who else is looking at this information? And it was stated by one of their execs, that we don't know the value in it now, but we find it will be useful. Why? Though you don't want to talk about it or even consider it, but what other information are they holding on to? That should concern you!

Google desktop searches will hold information you search on your computer on their servers. Why?

I am not ranting, I am only asking Why?

Score: 0

By ogman

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 6:07 AM

Well said!

Score: 0

By ogman

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 3:00 PM

Longhorn = Windows XP SP3

But, you'll have to PAY for this service pack. This really is becoming kind of sad, and as a Windows user (Linux and Tiger, too) it's starting to become a real disappointment. So far it looks like the whole service pack will consist of a new, cpu and memory hogging GUI (which may or may not be attractive). That's NOT an OS upgrade.

Score: 0

By snafu4u

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 10:52 PM

um, it was my understanding that the gui will be mostly/totally powered by your video card, not the cpu, so it will probably use LESS cpu and memory, not more.

Besides is your gui really slowing doen your computer? (if it is buy a new one...)

Score: 0

By jobryan26

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 7:05 PM

I could not agree more. With billons of dollars at their disposal to hire "The Pope" if they wanted too in order get this so-called OS out the door 2 years ago there was nothing stopping them other than "them". This has become nothing but a ridiculous hype that they built up and then couldn't deliver. As you stated before it's all said and done this will be more of a SP3 update rather than a whole new OS system. I mean they have already announced IE7 will be released before Longhorn and tab browsing can now be had with the installation of MSN Desktop Search so they have already started releasing bits and pieces to integrate into XP not Longhorn.

Score: 0

By allyourbase

edited Jun 10, 2005 - 6:33 PM

Yup.

Heck, in five years *I* could write a command line for windows that didn't suck.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 4:30 PM

I continue to be amazed at these ridiculously concrete statements made about something that no one has seen yet. It's not out til next year, so why don't you wait until you see the finished product until you pass judgement?

Score: 0

By fewt

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 7:56 PM

No one has seen?

It's right there in Microsoft's MSDN library. You can install it today if you have an MSDN license. ;-)

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jun 12, 2005 - 11:12 PM

Good one. I didn't know that /sarcasm. That's not the final release...

Score: 0

By ogman

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 4:46 PM

I continue to be amazed that some people are too short-sighted to see the writing on the wall.

"Oooooohhhh....don't talk about it 'til it comes out, cuz maybe they're lyin' when they say the stuff won't be in it." Gimme a break! Why don't YOU wait until it comes out to comment on my comment? :o)

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jun 12, 2005 - 11:19 PM

Get a grip. I was talking about the whiners that say specific parts of the OS will suck before they even have a clue what they are. The truth is, none of them can see any farther than their anti-MS bias will let them.

I'll admit, it's starting to worry me that MS is dropping so much from Longhorn, but I'm reserving judgement until I see the FINISHED PRODUCT. There's a difference between commenting on stuff we know about (example: this article) and judging the ENTIRE OS.

You apparently have clairvoyant qualities which allow you to see the finished product. Therefore, I retract my statement as it applies to you and apologize. Please let me know in the future that you have these amazing powers so that I will not offend you further.

Score: 0

By BklynKid

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 1:33 PM

I suppose the same way Apple users have to pay for every Mac OSX "service pack?" Apple declared Tiger as 10.4, not 11, so it's just an update and not enough for a whole number increment. Yet people seemed almost glad to shell out money for a few new features and a crummier interface.

Score: 0

By Kid A

edited Jun 11, 2005 - 10:18 AM

I use Mac OS X Tiger, and the interface is the slickest interface around, Windows XP is complete garbage and a total cluster f*ck. When Apple releases their Intel line of Powermacs I'll only dual-boot in Windows to play games, and that's it. Features like Expose, Dashboad, and Spotlite are features that Longhorn will only attempt to copy. Apple also stated that Mac OS 10.5 Leopard will be released at the release of Longhorn to remain 2 years ahead of their GUI and architecture. Mac OS X Tiger is also not just an interface update, it's a complete OS Update with new core technologies like core audio and core video. Streamlined kernel, updated Open GL, and updates to all of their apps. So I'll gladly shell out money when 10.5 is released.

Score: 0

By fxer

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 1:42 PM

Interesting troll, but for anyone curious about Apple's numbering scheme they are using 10.x because the os is called MacOS X, if they went to version 11 it would be MacOS XI now wouldn't it? Can't screw up that branding!

I guess people are sort of used to the Win 3.1 -> Win 95 or Win 98SE -> Win XP kind of major transitions between operating systems every few years. But in Windows, MacOS and Linux things just don't change as fast anymore

Score: 1

By eunichman

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 3:16 AM

commenting on your geneology - windows 3.1 was a gui environment layered on top of a dos shell, then came win95, a major change to the look and feel of that gui but basically still a gui environment layered on top of a dos shell. this was a major upgrade.
then came win98, a minor upgrade to win95, still a gui environment layered on top of a dos shell. People payed money for this minor upgrade as if it was a major new release.
then came win98 se (or Second edition). another minor upgrade to win95. still a gui environment layered on top of a dos shell, but users of both win95 and win98 paid for this "second edition" as if it were a major upgrade.
Then came winME (or Windows Millenium). This was the last minor upgrade of this OS line. Though it was still just a gui layered on top of a dos shell, MS took great pains and efforts to hide this fact.

following a different but parallel geneology we seen windows 3.11 (or Windows for workgroups). This was simular to win 3.1 but offered "better" networking capabilities "built in"
Windows 3.1 evolved to Windows NT (new Technology). NT was based on microsoft's previous OS, 3.11 as well as their experience in jointly working with IBM to develop IBM's OS/2. This was a major upgrade to 3.11
After NT we seen Windows 2000, a major upgrade to the NT line. at this point, MS decided, rather than have two OS lines competing for market share - to join the effort and developers of both projects into one project, labelled Windows XP.
Windows XP was a major upgrade to both the NT line and the 9x/me line - and also marked the death of both those lines as it merged into a new branding, xp.
XP has seen several upgrades over the years and now we have the "alleged" longhorn. Be interesting to see when it is finally delivered as a single product (if it ever is), personally, with the timeline on the longhorn devbelopment the way it has been I forsee most if not all of "longhorn" eventually integrated into the next major release of XP

Score: 0

By GoodThings2Life

posted Jun 12, 2005 - 2:47 PM

Actually, let me correct a few inaccuracies in your explanation.

First of all, Windows 3.1x was a GUI environment running on top of DOS (Disk Operating System---- NOT SHELL, SYSTEM).

Windows 95, 98, and ME are debatable whether you want to say that they're still a GUI on DOS, or if they're full OS's. I think it's a matter of perspective, but many would argue they are a full OS since Microsoft clearly diluted and limited the functionality of DOS on those platforms. Still, the fact that it boots to DOS Real Mode first to initialize the rest of the environment does support your claim, and I'm not arguing it either.

Windows 3.1 did NOT evolve into NT at all. NT evolved from the IBM-Microsoft joint venture behind the early days of OS/2... as well as LANManager. However, that's not all... NT also took advantage of quite a bit of UNIX code as well, although saying NT (and subsequent releases) is anything similar to OS/2 or UNIX is absurd, since Microsoft totally rewrote much of the code to suit their needs. When they were done, they simply slapped on the Windows 3.1 interface to give it an interface customers were already familiar with... which is why NT4.0 later took on the Windows 95 interface.

DOS/Windows 3.1 gave way to Windows 95, 98, 98SE, and ME... End of Story.

Simultaneously, NT3.1 gave way to 3.11, 3.5, and 3.51 using the Windows 3.1 interface before changing to the Windows 95 interface in NT4.0. Windows 2000 was a MAJOR upgrade to NT4.0, not a minor upgrade to anything. It had a huge impact in terms of stability, security (despite it and later XP's faults), performance, and functionality (including but not limited to the advent of Active Directory among other features).

Windows XP is also a major upgrade to the NT-2000 lineup... not a minor upgrade, despite Microsoft's insistence in keeping a 5.1 version number. XP marked the migration away from the DOS/Win9x codebase to the the NT codebase. It was an abandonment, not an upgrade/evolution. Not only has it sported enhanced security (along with tons of flaws that are still being patched), but it's featured a significantly new interface (unless you're like me and use Classic mode) as well as new features like the firewall.

Score: 0

By TheDooderino

edited Jun 9, 2005 - 12:27 PM

Hmm - Seems like there is less and less in Longhorn. Is there anything to look forward too apart from a flashy interface that will probably be slower and inferior to Leopard?

New browser and search function for XP make Longhorn seem even less exciting.

Hope I'm wrong and that Longhorn will be worth the wait...

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 4:24 PM

My hope is the same. About all we have left to look forward to is Avalon. I hope it's all they've cracked it up to be, but after Apple goes Intel, I'm seriously considering switching over. By that time, longhorn will be paid-subscription and the drawbacks from Apple will grow to almost nil as far as performance goes.

MS is really going to take a hit on this one.

Score: 0

By cryoknight

edited Jun 10, 2005 - 6:07 PM

You won't be able to switch over to OSX on a wintel machine. You'll have to buy all new hardware, since Apple is making sure that OSX will only run on an APPLE Intel-Mac. I was hoping to be able to multi boot DOS, 98, xp, Longhorn, and OSX, but alas...

Being a programmer, I'm quite interested to see how writing windows apps will change with the advent of Longhorn.

Score: 0

By BklynKid

posted Jun 9, 2005 - 11:27 PM

That's a long sentence. :)

Score: 0

By PhoenixPath

posted Jun 10, 2005 - 10:27 AM

I counted 5. :P ;)

Score: 0

By dvdee

edited Jun 10, 2005 - 1:46 PM

The reason why microsoft is taking so long their release of longhorn is because they're trying to catch up to apple's OSX. OSX looks a lot nicer and has features and abilities that can't even be emulated for windows. The way everything is so flashy and animated and still efficient. This is why microsoft is taking their time because if they don't they'll lose their user base to apple which has been putting out more and more innovations in the OS. For the first time in a while apple is ahead and microsoft doesn't like that.

Score: 0

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