Wake up record companies! Pay the musician for their talent! Stop pushing them for more, more,more and let them creat real music for the general public. Start your own download sites and charge .75 cent per song. We can afford to pay a decent price for a quality CD full of something WE want to buy not something you want to push off on us for your personal gain. (PAY THE ARTIST!)Make good music available!!!

so, will bittorrent network improve?
coz many people largely depend on it in arabic co****ries!!! (like Iraq)

BTW I HAVE DOWNLOADED HUNDREDS OF ALBULMS THANKS TO WINMX.IAM CANADIAN .I AM AWATING TO BE ARRESTED .

You are Joe Simpleton.... Seek and yee shall find.

Simple, do you want to defuse the RIAA STOP BUYING MUSIC FROM THESE MORONS.BETTER YET BUY AND SHARE AMONGST YOUR FRIENDS, RELATIVES AND EXTENDED FAMILIES .HIT THEM IN THE BOTTOM LINE.WHERTE IT HURTS .THEY HAVE BEEN PROFITING FROM ARTISTS FOR AGES . THIS IS THE INTERNET . SPEAK UP AND REFUSE TO TO TOLERARATE THEIR EGENOMY. FIGHT BACK,IT'S YOUR RIGHT UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT.ARE YOU AMERCANS MICE OR MEN?

RIAA is an arsehole and he should get killed by someone, do it!

I AM RIGHT!

RIAA is run by the JEWS

DONT BUY CD'S ANYMORE OR
YOU WILL BE SUPPORTING
JEWS WHO KILL & RAPE WHITE
PEOPLE THE WORLD OVER.

Friggin' retard. Even if Jews ran it, what difference does that make? You must be a troller or a flame-seeking bas****. Rid the world of your incompetence, please.

wot difference? becasue the jews are gonna rape you're mom, thats why....

***************
*RIAA ARE JEWS*
***************

EVERYONE WATCH OUT FOR THE JEW!!!!

I AM THE RIGHT ONE HEAR, JEWS ARE EVERYWHERE, THEY GONNA RAPE YOU'RE MUM IN THE ARSE

They will never kill the P2P community, look at what happened when Napster went down, Kazaa and several others popped up and took their place (with Kazaa looking similar to Napster except with more things than music).

P2P community will never die.

I stop buying cds and buying/renting movies, especially when it directly benefits RIAA.

It's called boycott. If they think targetting p2p will increase their funds, we must prove them wrong. Don't want to be controlled by RIAA? Then stop giving them your money!

eDonkey is an open source protocol. It's for all intents and purposes immortal. Future darken? More BetaNews sensationalism. I swear, this rag is turning into Slashd... er, The Regist.. , er, National Inquire...

*yawn*

First, if we allow the RIAA to go any further, then we should close all libraries, I see NO difference.

Second, I don't download music. I prefer to show the artist my 'respect for their performance' by buying a CD. I have NO liking for the RIAA at all, and I am disgusted they get a dime of my money, I buy a CD for the artist only.

Third, for all you folks that want real music, and complain about today's music, I have one sentence for you .. "support your local bands". That's the way music gets going that is original. If you don't support local bands, then your causing the problem, since corporate america will just turn out more bubble gum music. Get out to a club and check them out, they need your support.

Finally, Can anyone provide a link for anyone that has actually went to court in any of the personal cases? Curiously, I cannot find a single one.

The whole point is that these cases never go to court because no-one can afford to take the RIAA on - it's a case of 'capitulate or be squashed like a bug'. There will never be any hearing or discussion of these issues.

To your first point: The difference here is the difference between borrowing and sharing. The library loans the person a book and the person eventually brings it back. At any one time only one person retains the rights to read the book. When you share files you are sharing multiple copies without anyone ever giving up their right to the music, and without the copyright holder being compensated for the extra copies.

To you second point: Thank god there are at least a few people like you who have a sense of right and wrong and justice.

To your third point: Nicely said, local bands can produce wonderful music and some even provide it for free or at least low cost.

Lastly, I dont think any of these cases ever hit court, if they have they haven't been publicised very well. I can think of a few earlier cases of mistaken identity that caught the attention of the media but personally, I think that once the perp gets caught they come to their senses and realize they haven't got a leg to stand on so they settle...well...that, and, most of the thieves are college students or younger who cant afford a lawyer anyway. I havent got a single statistic to back that claim up, just my opinion.

who cares, honestly just move to the eMule! or something. I must say I'm sick to death of USA and its s***ty laws against P2P, its a program, that enables people to share files, you cant stop people from distrbuting music on the networks, its built for sharing files, music can be made into files, if you want to take someone to caught take the CD ripping programs or something, or work out a new way to use the protection on the market. Instead of hunting a killing small companies that produce programs for convience of finding files placed there out of their jurisdiction. If you cant stop them distibuting porn etc!.. bloody hell

As far as I know, music file formats have a structure and can be recognized by a computer program. More than that, there are file formats that can contain licensing information along with the digitized music data. So, why don't the makers of file sharing software just add a piece of code preventing anyone from sharing copyrighted media?

I do understand smart geeks will find a workaround, but most likely it will incur either altering the software itself, or altering the music files - both actions being unlawful. Thus, it will be the sharer's responsibility if copyrighted content becomes publicly available.

All I can say is.... Yeeppppie!!! and another one bytes the dust... another one bytes the dust...

You don't know what you're missing until it's gone... Things especially legal, like skype, should just temporarily, for a week or two, disable their service. All should do this at the same time, get a lot of people mad, and make them aware what they will be missing. It just might end up with a lot of people writing letters pro peer to peer, and cease companies from doing this crap.

**** ALL U SUPREME COURT ****ERS..WHATS IT GONNA HURT TO DOWNLOAD STUFF? U bas****S STILL MAKE ****ING PROPHET..PLUS BANDS ARE KNOWN WHEN PUT ON FILE SHARING STUFF....THATS WHERE THEY CAN GET NOTICED

ROFLMAO...that was so bad it was funny as s***.

Think about this... its only over recent times the RIAA has manged to nail peeps over P2P.. ONLY recently.. The reason why is simple, it was on the UK News about 4 moths ago, a chinese guy has wrote a program , this is being used by the RIAA.. It penetrates anything and everything.. firewalls, Peerguardian, the lot. It sniffs out your IP, reports home (to the RIAA) they then contact the ISP and like in a short period of time, you have a bill on the doormat. This is true guys.

...and that program would be an invasion of privacy and thus illegal under the Prvacy Act in Canada.

I **ADORE** our Privacy Act.

Pity you people south of the border did the "bend over and cough" thing when legislators started taking your rights away.

What you guys forget is , irrespective wether its the RIAA or a software company its THEFT. Stealing music, thats it. Wake up, knock off the excuses and "reasons to be right" and smell the fockin coffee, its pure and simple , Dont STEAL, Dont get sued!

exactly, so why kill the technology!

They're trying to kill the technology because it's easier and cheaper to sue a few software companies than it is to sue several million individuals worldwide.

I think the technology has its benefits, and the software distributers shouldn't be held responsible for users actions - it's like suing car manufacturers because their cars are capable of breaking the speed limit. However, in all honesty, probably about 90% of files shared by P2P file-sharing programs are illegal. Sharing music and movies is an illegal activity, and like it or not, by sharing files you are breaking the law. The RIAA / MPAA should go about it in a different way, but the outcome really has to be the same... to stop illegal piracy.

The music companies can close everything down, but at the end there are just killing themselves. There are many ways to share music and some of them don’t include the internet. You can actually take thousands of songs from an ipod or a friend’s computer or just copy cd’s. Plus if you buy it online from places like itunes you end up spending less money since you only pay for a few songs since most albums today are just crap. Who wants to pay 15-20 bucks for a 18 songs and of those 18 just 3 are good.

The really shameful thing about this is that the P2P companies are being labelled as 'guilty until proven innocent'. They are effectively being forced to prove their innocence, by companies that can afford to keep the process going until it bankrupts the victim anyway.

Kind of makes you want to take an oath that you will never, ever again buy a music cd.

I own about 2000 CDs, I've bought all of them. If I decide to share them with my friends is that the same as file sharing. I get pissed when I hear all the record companies complain about sales. Why is there a need to put copy controle on a CD I just bought, I own it and should be able to do with it as I please. I don't donload music, I love the whole package, inserts and all. I love owning my music, but I think I should be able be able to copy it to my computer, for my Squeeze Box, and make a copy to play in the car. Lower the price of CDs, and stop selling all that cookie cutter s&^t they call music, and sell some real music.

2,000 X $15/CD (average) = $30,000

Wow... you've spent a lot on music. My car is worth about an 8th of that lol.

That's the problem NH. What the courts have given to RIAA & MPAA is that We the Consumer don't own what we have bought anymore.They(RIAA & MPAA)own it. And they will tell you what you can or cannot do with what you bought. So if you loan a CD to your friend they lose a sale and could sue you for the loss.

Somethings you can't put a price on, some people spend more that that on coke in a month.

The funny thing is that this will basically change absolutely nothing. The eDonkey client will just go commercial and noone will use it, but the network will continue long after that company is dead. Something like 90% of the eDonkey network is compromised of people using eMule anyway. eDonkey's client isn't even a major player on their own network.

Yeah its kinda funny that Emule is such a better client than eDonkey and it is used more on eDonkeys network.

I'll download music for as long as I live. The RIAA can kiss it. I'm tired of reading threats upon threats. Their history inspires me to strengthen my actions.

dont be too c***y there buddy, i got sued by them, and my college didn't exactly approve either. just a note, peer guardian doesnt work.

I suppose thats your fault for doing it at a college campus...

If you're at home, its another story.

Thats an adult statement. Lol

This is total BS. I just have to hope this is a bump in the road for file sharing. I'm not about to being paying for music and stuff again.

bs... and you're not about to start paying for stuff again? Well now you've spoke for all the P2P folks... not about to pay for it again. Nope and it's not stealing is that right? "...not about to start paying for that stuff."

You'd be a poor speaker for the P2P community.

One p2p chapter ends, another begins

The all-in-one P2P sharing software
http://www.aimini.com/

An all-in-one P2P software, that through the use of PozID, IP, hostname or URL address you can directly connect between users. This enables direct file-transfer, as well as peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing and can make for faster searches and downloads of all types. This direct connect function also allows for collaboration over the Internet and corporate intranets, holding real-time conversations where users can see, hear, and exchange information with each other.

Aimini P2P software supports industry standards and offers rich data transmission, audio transmission, and video transmission capabilities in a seamless, easy-to-use client. They also provide with the software an Address Book and an FTP client.

umm... yeah... that wasn't an ad.

Stop spamming, that's commercial software, which has NO FUTURE in this sector of the 'market'.

I haven't bought a CD in years. But not because I use P2P for music, it's just that there's simply nothing worth buying. I'm old. I have a record collection (around 500 or so), that I'm digitizing on to CD and DVD. I worked for and bought those records like millions of others.

When I see this kind of thing, it makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I mean, the RIAA killed the DAT consumer market. When CDs first arrived on the scene, they were complete garbage compared to an LP. We were expected to (and did) buy these pieces of crap for $25+ And the hype was absolute extorsion, with words like 'indestructable' - yeah right.

And now 30 or so years later, the music I grew up with is gone and replaced with a watered-down pale version of what is called popular music.

Give me a break.

My point is not some much about P2P, but more about the weasels that represent (and always have) the new world order and corprate control on a scale never seen before in the history of entertainment. We don't get to see and hear any new really talented people anymore, just fashion statements to sell more soda products.

It's all about the mighty $$$z and control, control, control over our most sacred desires. P-ricks. I'm absoulety sick and tired of having rap-ditty-dap-dap hip-slop-crock shuved down my throat every time I turn on the TV, Internet, and or radio, and given the 'grand illusion' that I should be living my life they way the media wants me to. -- **** off

I've read all of the comments on this page thus far, and I felt this one warranted a reply. Well written and thought out. If more people put as much thought into posts and replies there wouldn't be the over-abundant flame wars we see every day on the comments here at BN.

Your very correct midfingr. The RIAA, MPAA their God is the Almighty $$. They do not care about the artist’s only their bottom line and how much they can squeeze out of the artist and the consumer.
We no longer own what we buy from these buffoons, we only lease what they want us to hear or see and they will change their colleted brain cell when they see fit give it too us again and again.
It would only take one day of virtually no sales from any venue to let them know that the consumer has had enough of their Bullying.

I feel your pain, but SOMEONE is making them powerful. Your anger should be more towards the dumb animals in the feed line than the zoo keepers handing out the gruel.

Uberfly, your right that we the consumer have made them powerful with our purchasing, but what we give can or will be taken away. The RIAA, MPAA ultimately forget that we the consumer pay the piper. I would love to have the books open for inspection by government/private auditors to find out really how much truth they “losing millions” from P2P downloads. You and I know that they would stonewall til hell freezes over before they submit to it.
It’s time to show the emperors (RIAA, MPAA) have no clothes.

A-f***ing-men. At least there's an upside to being of an age where you remember good music and regard the pap that is put out now as dross - no need to get ulcers about the RIAA. This is going to be a long struggle, but I sincerely hope they don't achieve what they're trying to - i.e. getting the 'copying' genie back in the bottle instead of reviewing their pricing and quality policies.

I used to feel like you, midfingr, until about the mid-90's when the Progressive Renaissance occurred. I used to think the best days of music were in the past, but not any more. You need to dig hard, but there is so much good, intelligent, sophisticated music out there. You often won't find it in a record store, except maybe the biggest Tower Records, and even then it's a crap shoot.

Whether you like "classic" rock, jazz, art rock from the 70's (now called "progressive"), classical, folk or many other genres, there is good music to be found. Here's the funny thing, the RIAA compamies rarely sell it. It's the independent labels. I recommend Inside Out, but there are many others. The members of the RIAA are the companies that largely puke on a CD and pay the radio stations to play it. It's OK to make money, but they are not about art. They are not about creativity. They are about forcing crap down your throat

I _do_ buy all my music... and there's more interesting stuff out there than I can afford.

Unfortunately the on-line music download stores have crappy selections... I usually can't even find the more popular of the artists I listen to, but there's always Amazon, as well as dozens of smaller on-line stores for buying CDs.

Once you buy a CD, it's yours. Good quality. No DRM. Nothing else can beat it, and probably never will.

Whoa. Thank you so much for the feedback. I'm humbled. It is good to see that there are so many people out there that are as passionate about music as I am.
Much appreciated!

Thank you. I checked out the Inside Out site. Very cool! There is one site that I looked in to at: allofmp3.com. Don't know if you've seen it, but it has some half decent downloads - no DRM! and the prices are unbelievable cheap - they way it should be.

Thanks again.

You want to stop the RIAA, stop buying the crap that the companies they represent produce. The consumer is what makes them strong. Are they (RIAA) being overzealous? Probably. Though not sure why everybody is so against people/companies protecting their copyrighted property. Create something that everyone else steals, them come back here and you'll whine a different tune.

Well said.

And then get a REAL job.

P2P is a fad.

It's fed via IRC (Another tech where you depend on another user's bandwidth) and NNTP.

NNTP. That's it. It's been around longer (as UUCP) than the internet itself. MPAA and RIAA can't touch it. Music, movies, tv shows, porn, pics, lossless and hd.

All a few clicks away and 500Mbit+ speeds.

P2P. Doesn't. Even. Come. Close.

P2P is not a fad...it is here to stay and the RIAA & MPAA wants it to. I mean they are getting people to settle of 3 to 5 thousand dollars for a couple of hundred songs. If you break it down they make more money per song or per album by going after people on P2P networks.If they really wanted to stop it they will go to the source of the problem. Insiders, people at CD or DVD pressing plants, the guy running the projector at movie theater or the guy that gets a advance copy of a CD at a radio station. If they went after the source of the problem they could really stop it...but wait...why....they can sell a CD for anywhere between 14 to 20 dollars or.......sue someone and get 40, 50 , 60 dollars for that same album.
They are not losing money.....what needs to happen if them to sue the wrong person. I mean someone that will fight it all the way...appeal after appeal.....think about...they never sue anybody that has the money or the desire to fight back....shows there true colors.

"think about...they never sue anybody that has the money or the desire to fight back....shows there true colors"

Well, if you think about it even more... the people that would have enough money to fight them... wouldn't need to download music in the first place =/

feh.

Whatever.

Let 'em play their games. I'll stick with my "anything digital for $10 a month" plan and sit back an laugh at 'em while I watch my commercial free TV, my DVD quality movies that I get to see @ home before they're released, and listen to my lossless tunes.

F0ck 'em.

No one needs to download music.

You high?

What I mean is they would have more than enough money to buy it. Why wait for 2-3Kbps downloads when you could just buy it without any real loss? $20/CD is immaterial to the kind of people that could actually take on the RIAA (which... is just about no one).

The record companies keep ranting about how much money they lose on illegal copies. Have they any idea how much money the CUSTOMERS lose on legal CDs, and what a lousy investment a music CD really is???
Buy a chart CD in a shop and then put it on eBay. You will get almost nothing for it.
Sony, EMI, et al, get with the beat, your product is over-priced! Look at iTunes and you see that people ARE prepared to pay a fair price for music.

tell me about it most CD's I buy usully have 2 or 3 good songs on them and thats mostly because the CD on comes with 9 or 10 songs on it!!!! and wonder why prople will not spend 15 to 20 dollars on a music cd.

even tho this dosent affect me toooo mutch, this is sad news, for those who were using eDonkey, all i can recomend is "the pirate bay" or "strong dc"

So let me get this straight, if a service or item can be used for illegal activity then said item must be banned from use? HMM.. I guess we should start pilling up all those freaking guns Joe Bob and Carl keep in their house eh? I mean out of all the Murders out there on the street, how many are caused by guns? Thats right, so by this whole P2P ruling i guess we better start collecting these.
OH AND START SUING THE GUN MANUFACTURERS.

Oh I forgot, the courts dont really care about Joe the consumer, they are too busy swimming in the pay off money from the big Corporations.

Wether you like it or not, P2P is here to stay. I personally am tired of paying 15bucks for 1 or 2 songs then the rest is sub standard music. Its freaking ridiculous how much these ppl make.

A freaking doctor who works his BUTT off going to school, then saving lives day in day out, doesnt make 10% what some artists make. Oh they loosing money, you know what @#$%@ em. They have enough money.

Hey RIAA/MPAA why dont you take your head out of your ********, and do some constructive, how about actually promoting creativity amongst your artists, o thats right, they dont need creativity when you can just sue your way into more money. bunch of chumps.

I agree with Jedite. If the RIAA spent so much time and effort developing and promoting fresh new talent instead of worrying about piracy and alienating their customers, we'd have a new Renaissance in music instead of the contstant same old retreads.

The only problem with your analogy, is that guns are used for legit reasons most of the time.

P2P is not. (some of the time it is, but mostly it isn't)

Really? Most of the uses guns have is for illegal activity. Sure ppl use them for self defense and or hunting. But for the most part what kills ppl? ppl with guns thats who.

P2P can be used for legal stuff to, and it is used for that, however most of the publicity is around the Illegal side of P2P.

They are going after a service that serves both the legal and illegal activity. Thats what Gun Companies are. Guns can be used to both legal and illegal activity.

P2P is here to stay, the more the RIAA compalins and sues people, the more computer programmers go stealth and create a new p2p.

Second I am an IT admin for multiple hospitals & other companies and trust me the doctors make a pretty large chunk of money.

So why do aritist make more you ask??? Simple an artist sells there talent for what 15 to 20 bucks per CD. ( alomst everyone has that much money ) A Doctors talent cost 1000's of dollars and most people can not afford it, and health care does not cover most stuff, so many people due without. Also docotrs have to deal with mal-practice suites.

It to bad we can't sue the artist for only writting 2 good songs out of the 24 that are on the cd. 20 bucks for 2 songs out of 24 songs, now thats theft. ;)-

Yagan made very good points...the first being about the rouge P2P developers who are going to push for complete anonymity on the internet and there are several projects out there right now doing just that. (ex. http://tor.eff.org/).

The other being the cold fact that money hungry rules like this and the MPAA/RIAA breathing down everyone's neck will lead to people not even bothering with the US in terms of support and the next big things in technology mihght not have anything to do with the US...

On the side, I really like how the MPAA has that slogan "Illegal Downloading: Inappropriate for all ages" even when they are in P2P death mode they are still the corporate entity as always coming up with the same boring content.

"The other being the cold fact that money hungry rules like this and the MPAA/RIAA breathing down everyone's neck will lead to people not even bothering with the US in terms of support and the next big things in technology mihght not have anything to do with the US..."

That's a pretty big statement. So you think two organizations, having nothing to do with diplomacy, are going to affect foreign relations that much?

I'm definitely don't like the MPAA/RIAA, but I think that's a bit much.

With the way that the USA is becoming anti-tech and anti-science and moving ever faster towards being a theocracy that is going to happen anyways. In fact its already happening.

It's foreign investment, not relations. And yes, if the U.S. is seen as hostile to innovation, fewer innovative companies will set up shop here.

In broad terms, innovation means a few companies start changing an industry, and long established companies start losing money. The dinosaurs eventually disappear. Think about the advent of the car, the phone, the computer - every innovation causes casualties. The RIAA is just fighting for its life.

You are right and you are wrong.

This whole attitude of "Copyrighted Stuff" is not only limited to the U.S.A. - it's going on in Europe, too.

But they won't stop developping new technology, because technology is the only means to rule the world. And 90 per cent of ALL technology has been invented and developped in the United States of America. (Nothing to be proud of, though, in my eyes . . .)

I don't see P2P as something of "innovation"

The problem with your analogy of the cars, phones, etc... is that all of those were improvements on whatever was available at the time. P2P doesn't improve on anything... It just is.

Sorry but that's absolutely ludicrous. Look up the word innovation before you come up with your own definition. P2P makes it easier for people to do what they've been doing for decades - share music and movies. We used to do it with TAPES! Are you old enough to remember those? Yes, it was more difficult back then, but then the internet came along, and through INNOVATION, sharing these things we've been sharing all our lives became much easier. I know you don't understand because you've obviously never made a tape for anyone, or given them a movie you illegally recorded off the TV. But people in mainstream society do this all the time, and no one thinks it's a crime except for apologists like you.

It's really hard to change a perspective...

...when it's dead on.

There are lots of good example of p2p technology being used in an innovative way:
- Radio stations broadcasting on the internet using bittorrent style software to save on bandwidth costs;
- Software developers releasing new versions and patches (I often download new linux updates this way);
- New music artists and movie directors wanting to get noticed;
- TV - one day TV may be distributed over the internet using bittorrent style technology.

It's really easy to bash those "Big Bad Record Companies", but eventually the issue becomes whether or not the actual musicians start to get pissed and simply stop making new recordings.

I know...that will ever happen. But guess what..why should I bother making recordings for the benefit of the P2P community when I can make up the revenue by simply doing more tours ?

Then, instead of paying $14.99 for one of my CD's, which you can listen to over & over, if you want to hear my new stuff you'll have to buy a $50.00 ticket and hear the songs once in live concert.

Eventually, the people who actually provide the artistic material are going to get fed up. Not just the big companies.

Many artists actually want people to download their music. Downloading alone has zero affect on record sales, in fact it helps them and has been proven so. If anything hurts record sales it is due to the crap they put out.

Plus, it is the big labels which rip off the artists the most. It is getting to the point where many are just going their own way and selling over the internet instead themselves.

O yes - what a pity if not thousands of songs would be available daily to rush our brains - !

You don't seem to have any idea what rules the life of an artist . . .

"Many artists actually want people to download their music. Downloading alone has zero affect on record sales, in fact it helps them and has been proven so. If anything hurts record sales it is due to the crap they put out."

I see people use this argument all the time. And not once; not once has anyone shown me the study or research that lead to that conclusion. Do you know the artists? Do you know their financial information? Do you know what hurts their profits and what helps them? No.

And even if you did, it's a moot point.

Even if it was true, the artists that would want their music downloaded, wouldn't copyright it. Therefore, they would not even be involved in this issue in the first place.

And yet, none of this has anything to do with the actual issue, which is an illegal sharing of copyrighted information.

Every so often, you hear an artist make a roundabout statement saying that downloading their songs is ok. I vaguely remember Green Day or Pearl Jam making a statment like this. The record labels usually comeback and oppose the artists decision and remove the content.

Regarding you statment, "the artists that would want their music downloaded, wouldn't copyright it." Your point is made without any background. Artists record music for the labels. The labels are the ones who are copywriting the songs.

One of the founding reasons for the record labels was to provide the best available studio and recording equipment to several artists who would share in the profits. Somewhere, someone got a little too much power and decided that they the label deserved more money.

While I do agree that we are on a tangent from the main topic, this is something that truly needs to be brought to the public eye. So many corporations are gaining too much power outside of their domain. Corps are gaining power in our government because of their large amounts of "financial backing".

Here is a link to the study.

http://64.233.167.104/se...t+downloading&hl=en

oh well, if everything gets shut down there always MIRC to get everything illegal. i guess "crashoverride" will want that shut down too :)

There are far better alternatives than direct connect tech like IRC. Ones that have been around far longer as well.

Cant see the problem, everyone will move to bittorrent and warez will just move more underground.

BT is not underground and if you think it's anonymous you will eventually get caught.

Not if you know what you're doing.

It ia absolutely impossible to ever stop filesharing. Too many technologies desired by too many people and both growing too fast...

This is all sh!t. eDonkey and WinMX may be dead (maybe not in the case of WinMX) but p2p will just go further underground. I don't see how this changes anything in the long run.

They're just taking down what is basically obsolete tech. Its evolution with survival of the fittest which is survival of the most responsive to change.

p2p sharing is the end result of elegal copying, people will just have to wait untill that guy on the corner sells it for a fiver even if they shut every single one of them down which is doubtfull

HURTING SALES:

Free books, music and DVDs at public libraries.

Nobody gets royalties; when used copyrighted works are sold at garage sales, flea markets and thrift stores.

Chains like BLOCKBUSTER and STREETLIGHT RECORDS buy, sell and trade used CDs, DVDs and video games. They brag about undercutting the stores which sell new copies only. They keep all of the money from sales. No lawsuits!

SONY owns a RIAA member record company and a movie studio. This Japanese firm invented the BETAMAX VCR. They sell CD/DVD burners to anybody who wants them, including Dual Layer models, which are best for pirating films using the right software. SONY is a major distributor of blank cassettes and video tapes not to mention CD and DVDr media. Now they complain because we buy their junk and use it!

Do any other companies play both sides of the fence? How is this any different, than crooked cops selling drugs; when they're not busy arresting the users?

Wow...

As long as they aren't selling copies, what the hell is your point?

Keyword: Used. The artist/label has already colle cted their fees from it's original sale.

As far as your burner argument goes...I don't know about you, but I can easily come up with many uses for my DVD burner that do not involve illegal file-sharing.

It's like P2P. Meant for one thing, used for another. There's no way to combat that unless you want to start bringing them down.

You've used this argument before. It still doesn't hold.

The books, music, and DVDs at libraries have been paid for. Most books are thousands of dollars to get the public license for in order to be used at the library.

When items are sold at garage sales or Blockbuster, they have already been paid for once by the original owner. The artist got their royalties for that sale already. When people share files though, the artist gets absolutely nothing.

As for Sony, ummm... Those items are used for legitimate reasons. The majority of them are used by artists who can't afford mass-production of their material and have to start out small.

You make it sound like they make those items available to encourage piracy... umm... ok.

"As far as your burner argument goes...I don't know about you, but I can easily come up with many uses for my DVD burner that do not involve illegal file-sharing."

I can come up with many uses for P2P also. Sueing P2P companies for the actions of its users sets a precident that requires Copy Machine manufactures to be sued.... as well as an manufacturers of any devices that allows for the illegal replication of copyrighted materials by the end user.

That will not occur though. The hypocricy is clearly evident.

1. "When items are sold at garage sales or Blockbuster, they have already been paid for once by the original owner. The artist got their royalties for that sale already."

TRUE

2. "When people share files though, the artist gets absolutely nothing."

TRUE, but refer to item number 1.

I would say that about 95% of the time, someone had to pay something in order to get the material to share. That would mean:

"they have already been paid for once by the original owner. The artist got their royalties for that sale already."

Nobody makes royalties from garage sales or used items at Blockbuster, but no one makes any money sharing, either. If anything that would make yard sales, garage sales and Blockbuster that much more illegal, because they are making money from copyrighted materials and not paying royalties on those materials.

And yes, when cassette tapes and any other similar consumer device was made available to the public, it was done so with the intent of copying copyrighted materials.

Yeah, but they are sharing an infinite number of copies; not giving the one original copy that the owner purchased. By doing that, the right to listen to the music/watch the DVD is passed from exactly one individual to exactly one other individual, which is perfectly legal.

File-sharing is a many-to-many relationship as far as the copies go. That's another reason why it's illegal.

I own about 2000 CDs, I've bought all of them. If I decide to share them with my friends is that the same as file sharing. I get pissed when I hear all the record companies complain about sales. Why is there a need to put copy controle on a CD I just bought, I own it and should be able to do with it as I please. I don't donload music, I love the whole package, inserts and all. I love owning my music, but I think I should be able be able to copy it to my computer, for my Squeeze Box, and make a copy to play in the car. Lower the price of CDs, and stop selling all that cookie cutter s&^t they call music, and sell some real music.

wow that sounds familiar...

Score one more for the giant! Knocking off us little guys one at a time will certainly make it easier for that off shore behemoth to come to life...and it will come to life....somewhere...out there...it's waiting.

I didn't think eDonkey was a little guy.

Yeah - let the big hang the poor, like they always did.

As you wish . . .

The RIAA/MPAA have certainly been busy this year putting a stop to the P2P network that is robbing them and artists alike, yet they all still make massive amounts of cash and it's as easy as ever to download just about anything you want using P2P.
What's next for the RIAA/MPAA?, shutting down DVD rentals and libraries to stop copying, maybe prosecute people for making a copy of their legally bought DVD/CD.
Pirating cant be stopped.

I don't agree with illegal shares - but I don't agree with what the RIAA/MPAA are doing either. It feels like they're going out of their way to close P2P altogether, which is upsetting because it forces new artists to sign deals with, well - them. So what they're doing is therefore, 2 fold. Which is quite evil. On the OTHER hand, I don't see any other way for them to stop illegal shares. Whether it hurts sales or not, who to tell - all I know is if I made music and I saw it being given away online, I'd be upset too.
Personally, I buycott/boycott CDs. I haven't purchased one since the first paid 'on the go' service came out - which is napster. I now have Yahoo. 4.99 a month, I get any/all the music I want AND they travel on my mp3 player. Sure they're getting money - but they're not getting wasted money (like the amount of money *I* technically lose when I buy a cd costing 13-15 for 2 songs), so I'm ok.....for now.

I have a funny feeling that when all the P2P is gone (hypothetically), mp3s will be 2-3 dollars each and these paid 'on the go' services will be forced by you know who to charge people 20 and upwards a month for music. If that happens I'm going deep, deep underground - back to DC+. LOL

RIAA/MPAA: You can't win. These acts of despiration (blind litigation, etc.) really can't even be considered a "won battle" in the larger war. You'll be crushed. You've got a hand-full of glass in your throats taking us on. You can't swallow it or you'll die, but you can't throw it up either because you'll die.

The harder you try, the worse things will get for you. Sharing is growing and will continue to grow in all directions until that glass has shreaded your insides completely. Payback is so sweet especially when everyone knows that it's a naturally occuring consiquence of your devious immoral devilish greed over the years.

"a naturally occuring consiquence of your devious immoral devilish greed over the years."

Funny. The RIAA/MPAA says their lawsuits are the same type of thing for the file-sharers.

Looks like the only thing left will be Gnutella and G2, ie. Shareaza. It's open source and not a legal entity so it's impossible to shut down by legal rights... suck **** RIAA :P

No it isn't. But then I'm not helping you find others either.

Thanks for nothing Aires.

Naughty naughty.

So, those of us who paid for eDonkey2000 Pro are SOL, eh?

dark day for P2P indeed. Peer to Peer, Point to Point, why don't they just call it what it really is Pirate to Pirate. P2P is nothing but a breading ground for illegal activity so they should be shut down. Paid services like Itunes, Napster, and Rhapsody are the future.

Don't be so ignorant. You obviously do not know anything of real importance about peer to peer technology. It is used for more than file sharing. Distributed computing for one. So bother to learn more about a subject before making a fool out of yourself.

well if these morons that use P2P for nothing but illegal purposes would stop then it wouldn't be a problem would it. That's the whole point though isn't it. That's what it's widely used for, at least that's what the entertainment and software industry keep screaming bloody murder about. P2P networks have become infested by a bunch of freeloading bums. On the flip side though if these networks move overseas there isn't jack the RIAA can do about em.

In any case you would do well to drop the smart attitude. It really makes you look no better than my mis-informed opinion does me.

The man has turned you into a tool crashoverride!

"On the flip side though if these networks move overseas there isn't jack the RIAA can do about em."

Not entirely true... They still got Kazaa in Australia.

Kids are told in school: "We learn through history. So learn!"

This doesn't seem to be true, when reading your pro-legal comments. One must not necessarily be a criminal though maybe made so by laws.

Have you learned nothing from the 20s and 30s in your own country? Have you never heard of what the prohibition did to the U.S.A.?

It's definitely NOT reason that rules this world - wherever . . .

well yea, that slipped my mind.

I would rather have a smart attitude than a dumb one. :) It gets tiring encountering people making statements that they haven't bothered to research to see if they hold water.

The RIAA/MPAA is clueless when it comes to this stuff. I've seen enough to figure that out myself. I suspect that it doesn't really matter what solution we come up with, if the RIAA/MPAA don't have complete control of it they won't be happy. Moving overseas is only effective as long as the RIAA/MPAA is not able to persuade those countries or if those countries are not as bad or worse than the RIAA/MPAA.

Right now, it looks like either the RIAA/MPAA will have to be removed and more rational organizations put into place or P2P file sharing networks will have to become untraceable. The second option is obviously the more workable one.

ok True, P2P does have it's legal uses. The fact still remains though that must of these P2P networks got popular by promoting piracy.

Ok i'm just gonna shut up. My opinions really don't appear to matter anyway and i'm tired of the verbal attacks. I appologize.

Crash..I don't go to P2P sites to share, I steal...music, movies, software...you name it, I've done it. Why...? Because there is nothing so sweet in life as getting something for nothing...sticking it to the "man"...! Screw the RIAA, Microsoft, well the list is just too big.... As far as shuting down all the P2P's....You build a better mousetrap and the mice sneak in and put a cap in your head....Live long, Live free...be a pirate...!!!!

yawn. One word: Kad.

some serious s*** !!! what will be next ? ares ? I wonder do they anticipate having to go underground too ? fighting illegal sharing of software, ok, I can dig that, but at the same time closing down legal sharing as well ? this reeks of big brother tactics wich are foul ! but an alternative will popup very soon...

http://www.slsknet.org a filesharing program that promotes legal use (beware, it also has illegal shares on it)

I can't believe all the people here defending the MPAA and RIAA...

First off, anybody remember when the RIAA was trying to shut down napster? There were musicians playing free concerts in support of Napster (Limp Bizkit was one of them, can't remember the rest)... So obviously not all the artists out there dislike P2P.

Sure, the MPAA and RIAA piss me off, but the average joe supports that follow them are really starting to piss me off. I'm not going to pay for a DRM file that I can only play on certain mp3 players, thats a lesser qualitiy then If i downloaded it for free, where I can play it on anything I wish.

If anything, the real victims of piracy out there are programmers. But hey, lets defend the MPAA and RIAA, and the artists they rep, because they don't have enough money yet....

I agree, if i were to pay for a music file at that point it should be MINE. I should be able to burn it to as many cds as I want, or copy it to any music player I want. (granted i am not selling it for profit) I paid for the song, I did not rent the song.

P2P is here to stay, the more the RIAA compalins and sues people, the more computer programmers go stealth and create a new p2p.

(in responce to an earler post)
Second I am an IT admin for multiple hospitals & other companies and trust me the doctors make a pretty large chunk of money.

So why do aritist make more you ask??? Simple an artist sells there talent for what 15 to 20 bucks per CD. ( alomst everyone has that much money ) and so millions of copies are sold. A Doctors talent cost 1000's of dollars and most people can not afford it, and health care does not cover most stuff, so many people due without. Also docotrs have to deal with mal-practice suites.

It to bad we can't sue the artist or RIAA for only writting 2 good songs out of the 24 that are on the cd. 20 bucks for 2 songs out of 24 songs, now thats theft. ;)-

I think people are forgeting that artist also make a large chunk of money off of concerts and such - which could explain certain hikes in concert tikets (i.e. 100$ to go see Metallica) - CDs aren't the only way for entertainers to make a living. The reason why albums are so expensive is because of the percentage that goes to the label itself. Barely any goes to the artist. Which would explain why bands we're performing Napster support concerts, because they know that P2P programs get their music out there and people thus want to go see their concerts. Screw the CDs, we could have a full music system through P2P and concerts.
Which would make it easier for people like LostProphet here who only enjoys 2 out of 24 songs of an album. Since the artists could release single songs at the time (and don't mention "Singles", they're just as bad as full Albums) then people could download THOSE songs only. Heck, the artists could just as well sell music on their websites for like a dollar a song.
Either way, Mozart could never release "albums" back in his day and he was just as rich and famous. (in fact he made most of his money from selling sheet music). Maybe we can learn a thing or two from folk like him.
*sigh*

Good point, joel_t, forgot about the concerts, T-shirts, guest appearence on shows, (some of those are frree through to promote themselves).

I like the dollar per song, and thats what i do, I just hate all the limits built into the music file. I believe once i ay for it its mine and i can do with it what i wish.

It's true, they always find ways to limit your options. There's also the fact that the quality of the audio they sell you for a dollar might not be the quality of audio you want.

heres my point of view and dont get me wrong im pro P2P and anti RIAA but if they want to stop P2P and piracy they should go after the manufacturers of devices that you can burn the DVD/CD music and films to and also the mp3 players. Anything that you can put your P2P stuff onto is helping the downloads.

Yes i know the items can be used for legal stuff but if you look at it when those gadgets and disks exist well then P2P will remain.

My point is to stop P2P you gotta stop manufacturing DVD/CD disks and mp3 players. just rember im Pro P2P

hov, just like the RIAA is flooding P2P with fakes, they are probably on this forum. Why would anybody who does not "share" be on a site about "sharing"... Granted, there are some losers who are not RIAA scum out there defending them, but most of the "defenders" are RIAA. Beware, no one can be trusted....

That would be an easy fix, though you pointed out the problem yourself. CD/DVD-Rs ARE used for legal stuff all the time. Sometimes just as much as for illegal data. Honestly.
In my office, we burn 2 to 3 disks daily since we have to bring our ACAD drawings to another firm for instance.
It's the chosen medium for getting the illegal suff on your sound system and tv sure, but you'd be surprised at how often people don't even bother burning their downloaded Apps/Movies/Games. So should they stop manufacturing Hard Drives too?

*sigh* I read this and now I just "have" to give my take...

First, my actions around this subject:
I dont own that many cds... I own maybe 20...
I buy any cd on which I know I like 90 percent of the songs. if i dont know that, then it never crosses my mind to try and come up with the money to buy the cds, im not music obsessed, I listen to the radio all the time tho... how does that work incidentally, isn't that quite the same as sharing, you can easily copy the music in real time, and its free...
I download tons of mp3s whenever I have a chance... most of them get deleted after the first hearing... the ones I like I keep, and i keep very accurate idv3 tags, that way if my music library shows that i have most of the songs from an album, i know i need to try and buy it, however, when i say tons i mean.. in the last year ive gone through 300 mp3s tops, currently i have about 80, some people have like thousands... i have a friend who downloads around 30 a day... wtf thats like... did you spend your whole day downloading? what a waste of time, art is a passive device designed to improve the environment in which we execute our daily activities, collecting art is not the end all activity

now, my take on the situation:
p2p is unstoppable, the music companies will not succeed in erasing its existence, if file sharing is illegal(and obviously it must be) what is the internet? it was invented to share information, what is software? information. so music companies. heres one for you. the phone company puts the sattelites in the sky that carry the internet across their shiny metal backs, shall we shut those down? better still lets just stop using anything the phone company puts out, and stop sharing things. that would do wonders for your part in the economy, wouldnt it?... in the future we will be seeing open source networks that distribute themselves across thousands of users, possibly even self supporting networks, where when you go to the website to get the program, you do it via a scripted access to the network, these wont have "super Nodes" because everyone will be a super node, all users on the network will have perfectly masked ips, no-one will be able to persecute any individual of the network without first discovering that they even possess the program(a difficult act under our privacy laws)

that said I also have to agree with the people suggesting you go to clubs and concerts, and that you buy the music there, from the band
that promotes the bands you like, if a label gets part of that, that was the artists decision.

if you like a bunch of songs by an artist, buy something from them

sharing is fine, didnt your momma tell you that anything in excess is bad? stop downloading 50 songs a day. that is just wrong, i dont care whose profits we're talking about.

if you were only downloading a song a day, the music companies wouldnt have a leg to stang on, but when someone has 50000 mp3s of copywritten material, the courts have gotta wonder wtf is going on