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Q&A: Windows Live Search Senior PM Justin Osmer

By Scott M. Fulton, III, BetaNews

September 13, 2006, 6:55 PM

On Monday, Microsoft decided the fundamental functionality of its Windows Live Search platform was complete, and rolled out the 1.0 version of its all-new search engine as the replacement for MSN Search. MSN has been, over the past several quarters, Microsoft's least profitable division, but now the company's goal is to put on a par with those companies that make Internet search one of the most lucrative businesses in information technology today.

There will be significant handicaps to overcome. The very name "Windows Live Search" seems to proclaim it's not for the Linux or Mac user, even though its services are presented in industry-standard JavaScript (AJAX). If Windows Live is to be a revenue source for Microsoft, it has to be recognized by advertisers as a viable, active evolving platform.

This means it has to acquire market share, and with Google's share now estimated at 60.2%, #2 Yahoo's share at 22.5% and Microsoft splitting the rest with "Other," according to Internet media analyst firm Hitwise, Microsoft has a long way to go. Advertisers track performance in terms of overall reach, so the terms "distant third" can be a serious turn-off.

But does Windows Live Search really have to be #1 at some future date, before anyone declares it successful? Can't Microsoft find itself in a more comfortable position with, say, a close third? BetaNews sat down with the company's senior product manager for Live.com, Justin Osmer, to find out, and discuss a new service called Windows Live QnA.

BetaNews: When I've talked with analysts about Windows Live Search, and what they interpret to be the goals for Microsoft, they try to frame it in terms of how fast or how soon Live Search will be able to "beat Google." I'm thinking in my mind, it doesn't have to beat Google to be successful, does it? Couldn't Live Search be comfortable as a #3 player?

Justin Osmer: Certainly, third place is not a bad place to be. Given how far we've come in such a relatively short period of time, especially compared to our competitors, in building our own home-grown technology, we're pretty happy with third place. But we also are not going to rest on those laurels, because there is more money to be had, there's more advertising dollars available out there, and with more market share comes more advertisers.

It's a bit of a cycle, and we absolutely want to continue to grow our user base, continue to grow our market share, and that certainly is a goal behind this recent release - to bring to the market some new offerings as part of the search experience that are different. That will help people get to the information that they're looking for in a unique and more customized way.

BetaNews: Your strategy, I believe, appears to be to position yourself as a tool provider, much the same way Ask.com has done fairly successfully since it dropped the "Jeeves" from its name.

Justin Osmer: We certainly believe that search doesn't have to be a one-way experience, so we're trying to put in more controls in the hands of the user, to allow them to get that direct access. A great example of this is with our image search capability. We've spent a lot of time during our recent beta period listening to customer feedback. So, some of the things that we've done with image search that we believe is kind of best-in-class, is to remove the metadata from the search results that are shown on the screen.

What we found is people wanted to see images, they didn't want to see a bunch of text links next to the images. So we allow you to resize those images in a very fluid way -- the page doesn't have to reload, it's all based on AJAX -- then if you want the metadata, all you have to do is hover over the image and then you get the metadata - the size of the image, what Web site it's from, that sort of thing.

Then if you like that image, you can simply click and drag it down to what we're calling Scratchpad, which can be a collection of your results so you can go back and quickly find the images that were of most interest to you. It's a version of an editor's table at a photo desk. It puts them all in one place for you to review them, so you don't have to worry about trying to find them back through the search results.

BN: Whenever Google introduces a new feature to its search page, that feature generally leverages its core, back-end power, its colossal index. They've described it to me before as an "organic growth scenario." Has Microsoft learned from that somehow, and in repatterning MSN Search as Windows Live Search, is it going to be integrating an "organic growth scenario" in the future?

JO: Certainly, you learn a lot from looking at the query data, and seeing the types of queries that people are entering, and when they have to go back in and enter a new query. One of the main objectives we have is to stop abandonment, where people will go in and get a query, maybe do another query, and they'll leave frustrated not having found what they were looking for. That's something that we're continually working on.

Today, we have a feature called Instant Answers, which pulls data from Encarta, as well as Fox Sports and a number of other internal and third-party Web sites. It offers up factual information: "What's the population of Washington, D.C.?" "Who won the Super Bowl in 2002?" Things like that pop up as an instant answer at the top of your search results.

Certainly, as we continue down this path, to use the term, the organic growth opportunity there is just to leverage those different elements you have across those different categories of your index, so they're all coming up in the same place. The Instant Answers scenario will start to prove itself out with News. If you go to Web and do a news topical related search, you may see a news result at the top from our News vertical, but then you'll also get the general, inline Web results.

BN: You talked about wanting to stop the abandonment, to avert people leaving without finding what it is they're looking for. Sometimes, when you have a search engine that is, well, too good at what it does, and it comes up with accurate results on the first try, then you have a scenario where customers are satisfied and then leave, as opposed to other customers who are dissatisfied and keep searching and keep searching.

JO: Exactly, that's one of the reasons why we do a lot of lab testing with actual users, and we're watching them click through the service and supplement that with the raw data as well. Because you're exactly right - Instant Answers is a great example. If I want to know who won the Super Bowl in 2002, I just type that in and get my answer. I probably won't click on anything on the page, I'll move on. That was a successful search result for me. Being able to compare that to someone who types in a query, and looks at the page dumbfounded, can't figure out what to do, and leaves - those are the types of things that we're constantly working on.

Continued. . .
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By extremely well

posted Sep 15, 2006 - 6:10 AM

If MS wants me to give them a try, they need to prove to me they are better, every time I use search. For that, I demand to see Google's results in a small side panel for a quick comparison. They can log my clicks (on Google too I mean) to improve their search engine as far as I'm concerned.

BetaNews should reconsider the use of email interviews. It's pretty obvious this was one of those. The answers are just too boring. Limit the answers to your questions to a few key sentences and totally eradicate repetitions of CRAP such as "we're excited, it's an interesting field, blah blah" - let's get straight to the point, please.

As for "factual data" - Microsoft is WAYYY behind Google and Yahoo on this one. "weather in NYC", "time in Japan", "500 usd in euros" are some sample SIMPLE queries WL Search is having difficulties understanding ATM.

Score: 0

By stuarti

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 9:31 PM

Very nice and much better than there previous MSN search, comes tops with me. Right time to change my preferred default search engine to LIVE :)

Score: 0

By PC Rat

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 11:33 AM

...

"Microsoft's attempt
to try to evolve the
search engine into
more of a social service"

...

Last time Microsoft tried a "social interface", the
result was Microsoft Bob !

...

The Computer Rodent

...

Score: 0

By cranbers

posted Sep 13, 2006 - 11:06 PM

Windows live search is absolutely a google clone right down to the exact layout, with ads on the right to clicking on the number on the bottom, also don't forget the simple only thing on the page search box. Here is what they missed.

1. Google color scheme
2. The google logo

I hope google sues them for copyright infringement because I have never ever seen more of a copy then this. I mean are they running it on thousands of linux boxes too? The only thing original is the search tips on the right that they took from ask.com.

Great job microsoft, what happened to the truly original idea of endless scrolling with no next page click? That I would admit was kind of cool but of course, that was too original so you had to drop it.

Score: 0

By dwby

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 2:03 AM

cranbers, have you even been to the site? It doesn't look anything like the Google one. I like it a lot actually.

Score: 0

By PC Rat

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 11:37 AM

...

"cranbers, have you
even been to the site?
It doesn't look anything
like the Google one"

...

Bro. Rat's reaction, too. Windows Live Search
(who comes up with these names ?) looks ~exactly~
like Google.

Only difference: WLS isn't as good in the results
department.

First thing Microsoft should do: Pay Steve Jobs to
come up with a better name than "Windows Live Search".

"I-search" or something. Maybe the name of some
animal, like Lynx.

...

The Computer Rodent

...

Score: 0

By cranbers

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 3:18 AM

Are you talking about the color scheme? That really is about the only thing different. The layout is identical, except google's looks much better. No it's not as pretty looking but it is much more functional.

Score: 0

By dwby

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 10:19 AM

No. Not the colour scheme. Do a search in images or something. I don't see anything wrong with the layout, whether it looks like googles or not.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 9:26 AM

I have to actually agree with you on this (proving I am *not* an MS fanatic).

Just as Firefox pushed MS to fix IE (turn it into a FF clone), so did Google force MS to fix MSN Search by turning it into a Google clone.

Firefox is still better than IE, and Google is still far better than Windows Live Search.

It should really be:

Internet Explorer (Firefox Edition) and Windows Live Google.

Score: 0

By PC Rat

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 11:40 AM

...

"proving I am
*not* an MS fanatic"

...

Now PC_Fool has become a Microsoft ~basher~ !

How dare you say one thing against Microsoft.

If you don't like it, come up with a search engine
of your own !

...

The Computer Rodent

...

"Microsoft:
Love it, or
leave it !"

...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 2:10 PM

How original.

1.) The name is PC_Tool.

2.) Someone already created a search engine I like. Thus removing from my plate the responsibility of making my own.

3.) I neither bash nor defend any company solely based on blind loyalty or hatred. You should try it sometime.

Score: 0

By IceyKola

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 10:44 AM

Whether the interface is the same or not isn't that big of a deal. Sometimes you have to go with what you know just works. People are used to the interface, but they can slowly start moving away from it to a better interface if they can find one.

What makes it different from Google is the underlying search technology. Which one gives you the answers you want and easier? That's the one that I will be returning to.

Score: 0

By cranbers

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 7:26 PM

The way I see it, Microsoft can never ever come up with something, original and be successful. The windows live search when it was in beta had a unlimited result scroll ability. Apparently instead of working out the issue they just ditched the idea. They said, Google makes all this money with this layout and format. Now that we have made a perfect clone, replica we should too right?

Microsoft already tried this with the new and improved msn search. They faultered, as in if this was a company like ask.com or whatever they would of went out of business. But like someone once said, try try again. Maybe Google will go out of business somehow, their entire Linux pc array will be infected by a massive replicating virus that will erase everything, cause Google to die over night.

I am sure Microsoft has thought about it, although im sure yahoo would just take the lost Google share. People just don't like or trust Microsoft, all of their products are looked at being forced upon the customer, not customers flock to it because they love it. Windows, office and all other products of their is looked upon this way.

Score: 0

By PC Rat

posted Sep 14, 2006 - 11:42 AM

...

"Whether the interface
is the same or not
isn't that big of a
deal. Sometimes you
have to go with what
you know just works."

...

Stick with what works ? You mean, keep using
Google ?

...

The Computer Rodent

...

Score: 0

By IceyKola

posted Sep 18, 2006 - 9:24 AM

Sure, keep using Google if you want. I know that I will be; force of habit. But what I meant, and I'm sure you know what I meant, is that MS knows that interface works.

I will be trying to use both for my searches and see which one puts the results I was looking for closer to the top.

What I'm saying is that, maybe Microsoft doesn't have the obvious "originality" in the interface (other than image search), but maybe their originality lies in how they rank their search results.

Companies don't have to make new things to be successful, they can be very successful in just making things better.

Score: 0