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RealNetworks, MPAA in a cage match over RealDVD

By Tim Conneally, BetaNews

October 1, 2008, 2:32 PM

On the same day, RealNetworks sued Hollywood studios and the DVD Copy Control Association, and the MPAA sued RealNetworks over the less-than-month-old RealDVD software that allows users to save copies of DVDs.

Using DVD Copy Control Association v. Kaleidescape Inc as a legal precedent, Real sued for a declaratory judgment for the protection of RealDVD. According to the company, the action was a response to threats made by major movie studio parents Disney, Viacom, Sony Pictures, Twentieth Century Fox, NBC Universal, and Warner Bros.

In Real's official statement of suit, the company likened the movie industry to the music industry in its myopic outlook on technology, saying it tries "to shut down advances in technology rather than embrace changes that provide consumers with more value and flexibility for their purchases."

The case Real cites closed in July 2007, after nearly three years of litigation when the DVD Copy Control Association conceded that businesses could burn DVDs as long as the discs included CSS copy protection.

As was widely anticipated including by RealNetworks itself, the MPAA sued Real for selling a product which illegally bypasses copyright protection built into DVDs, complaining the software's principal function violates the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

The MPAA's associated statementwas a bit more, shall we say, theatrical, calling the product "StealDVD," and saying, "We will vigorously defend our right to stop companies from bringing products to market that mislead consumers and clearly violate the law."

The MPAA's main concern is that users of the software will participate in what it calls "rent, rip, and return," where a user has the ability to amass a huge collection of movies without actually purchasing anything from the studio directly. The group therefore is asking for an injunction on the software and associated damages.

RealDVD rips DVD content into a proprietary format that is only viewable in Real's branded player, that can be ported to as many as five devices (external drives or PCs). Each saved DVD, according to Real's knowledge base, consumes about 9GB of space.

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By Scary Guy

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 3:45 PM

I wish there was some way for both companies to lose.

Score: 0

By roj

edited Oct 2, 2008 - 1:00 PM

Way back when there was a product called DVD XCOPY Platinum. It was sold on the premise that it allowed users to back up their DVDs. The MPAA Bullied, Paid Off and otherwise BOUGHT the legal system into tarring and feathering the company and it went out of business. I remember idiots here stridently championing that rubbish and decrying the "illegal software product" that allowed this heinous act of heresy (preserving consumer rights) to be performed.

Now, the MPAA has picked on a much bigger company to try and perpetuate its stupidity again.

The original target years ago was a small company without much in the way of resources. The courts sold it out handily because, let's face it, in the United States, The Corps have bought and paid for the courts in the form of The Special Interest Lobby (even the most staunch defender of The Faith can't deny the obvious). The owner, in a valiant but vain attempt to save his conpany through the voice of reason, went all the way to the Supreme Court - but the fix was in.

But Real Networks ain't the same size as the little kid in the playground was.

And they don't bully easily.

It's gonna get interesting.

I've already bought the soda pop and the popcorn - let the games begin.

And yes, gentle reader, the sarcasm tags are indeed dripping red.

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Oct 2, 2008 - 1:19 PM

Actually it DVDXcopy still exists. I just got an update recently in fact. they just changed the official name, and moved to a different country, However the original software is still supported and updated, just not sold as DVDXcopy anymore. And from what I have experienced with it still works perfectly. The new one is really good too, much faster then prior versions.

So their lawsuit really did nothing as far as I could tell... It stopped them distributing that version of the ripper was all I can see. they just changed it to something else and it still works fine. but the original ripper is still there if you have the original disc to install first before updating it. after the update you get the option of which ripper you want to use. AND the software still updates all the components when new anticopy schema's hits the DVD market that makes it harder to backup for a short time till updates come out to fix the problem.

BTW if your looking for 321 Studios product, its now called DVDneXtCopy. Its truly a fantastic product still, and even better for prior DVDXcopy owners cause you get a significant discount if you want an upgrade to the latest version.

Score: 0

By roj

edited Oct 2, 2008 - 1:15 PM

That is COOL!

I remember saying at the time to their tech support "come up to Canada - we'll embrace you here and we don't have the nonsense you put up with down there". Now, i don;t think they came here but it's good to know that they beat the corrupt system that tried to kill them.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 3:13 PM

they beat the corrupt system that tried to kill them.

fled!=beat.

Thanks for playing.

Score: 0

By roj

edited Oct 3, 2008 - 6:11 AM

Still in business and making money and profits == winner.

Methinks several large banks are wishing that they still had that option right now.

I'm also sure their customers and the public who will now have to foot the bill for bailing out some of them are "thanking Them for playing" too. ;)

Not.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 3, 2008 - 9:09 AM

Wow. Nice attempt at topic change.

Both are still in business and making money == draw.

Are you retarded?

Score: 0

By roj

edited Oct 3, 2008 - 2:40 PM

No attempt at topic change. Showing up your analogy as the foolishness that it is.

A company was stepped on by corrupt courts and a paid-for legal system - so corrupt that it extended all the way to the Supreme Court (because after all, that court knowingly and willingly failed to uphold the consumer rights of the people it was put in place to serve). The company survived and lived to fight another day, even prospering.

They did it without help from anyone but themselves - no one there to bail dem chickens out.

Your stupidity somehow attempts to infer that since they left the hallowed shores of the US of A, they lost.

The last laugh is on those who tried unsuccessfully to put them out of business because, after all, the best revenge is living well.

And they are - no amount of rhetoric from you can change that fact.

As an aside, didn't you critters flee what you viewed as a corrupt and persecuting system to come to what was then considered the New World?

I guess that makes, by your own analogy and admission, ever' single American citizen "beaten".

Good to know.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 3, 2008 - 2:57 PM

PC_Tool Said:

Both are still in business and making money == draw.

roj Said:

Your stupidity somehow attempts to infer that since they left the hallowed shores of the US of A, they lost.

Yeah. draw=lost. You're brilliant.

*clap* *clap* *clap*

Are you even capable of comprehending basic English?

Score: 0

By roj

edited Oct 3, 2008 - 8:58 PM

Let's see:

First you say that the company lost.

Then you revise yourself (upon realizing that you made a really obvious and glaring error) and say it's a draw (yet another glaring error, since they're obviously prospering).

If they're prospering, that's clearly called a "win".

Not a "loss".

Not a "draw".

W-I-N.

Spell it carefully and then pronounce it, enunciating each letter phonetically.

So tell me:

What use is English or any language of communication with you with you when you're first a) making stupid statements easily refuted and then b) making even more stupid comments in a futile attempt to save face and hurling invective when made to look like a fool AGAIN (which incidentally only reinforces that perception).

You're right up there with Sarah Palin, ain'tcha.

Dude, c'mon. I expected better from you although I have noted that of late you're definitely off your game for whatever reason (because, let's face it, that's all this is - at least to me).

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 6, 2008 - 9:22 AM

Let's see:

First you say that the company lost.

My exact post was:

fled!=beat.

Learn to read, idiot.

What use is English or any language of communication with you with you when you have absolutely *zero* reading comprehension skills?

You need to work on your trolling, genius.

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 12:29 PM

Umm ..... Doesn't the MPAA know there are dozens and dozens of programs right now that let you "rent, rip, and return"? Namely DVDFab, DVD2One, and good old DVD Shrink 2.3 to break the crappy protection the stubborn movies like 21 and Deja-Vu.

Why do you think Netflix DVD rental is so popular and Blu Ray isn't?

You can copy just about any DVD these days but BD discs require up to 5-10 times more than a DVD and hours to rip. Not to mention a single blank BD-R costs as much as a new release.

The only thing you can do with ripped BD movies is play them on a PC or a PC hooked up to an HD source's DB-15 input like a DLP projector or plasma. Most people aren't smart enough to know how to set everything up to get this right or care enough to bother.

Not to mention copied movies will let upscaling players pass 1080i over component where the original wont.

Score: 0

By Hellgod77

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 1:04 AM

Damn RealNetworks GREW BALLS!, wasnt there another company that copy'd dvds get sued? as long as it cant re-record to another DVD i dont see the issue here? like i wanna watch movies in front of my pc where i work all die, some of us have wives and s***.

Score: 0

By ingram091

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 12:15 PM

Yep. DVDXcopy. and they are still going strong, just went to a different country to do business. Gee. Maybe Realnetworks will find more success in another country... I know I haven't used it since the turn of the millenium I think... wasn't that real plus or something like that for streaming radio? Yea I think so...

Beyond that there was never a reason to bother with that format anyhow. so why bother with them now. lol

Sorry sarcasm seems a little Harsh atm. I feel for them cause they are essentially the what? 5th in line competitor and they are trying to make their company better and more attractive. But still, Why the MPAA is attacking them is obvious. They are the lowest man on the totem pole and easy to try to set a precedence with as they will likely have less money then say Microsoft in court battles.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 12:25 PM

If I were MSFT or Apple, I'd step in in a hurry to help Real defend this one.

Score: 0

By improvelence

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 5:33 PM

"Each saved DVD, according to Real's knowledge base, consumes about 9GB of space"

Why on earth would anyone want to rip into a format that is LARGER than the source? Pathetic.

Score: 0

By captmiddy

edited Oct 1, 2008 - 8:16 PM

Actually a dual layer DVDs(the ones used to produce most DVD Movies) are 9G in size, single layer DVDs are 4.4G. Most people use single layer DVDs for personal recordings which is probably why you are confused. It isn't larger than the original, it is 100% equiv of the original.

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 5:53 PM

Like everything like this they are making up the numbers to booster their claims. Really dishonest of them. [smiles]

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 7:42 PM

As if this nitwit has any idea what is accurate or not...

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 9:38 AM

Probably doesn't even realize it's "bolster", not "booster".

I'm sure it's the USA's fault, though...

Score: 0

By ir0nw0lf

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 3:40 PM

"The MPAA's main concern is that users of the software will participate in what it calls "rent, rip, and return," where a user has the ability to amass a huge collection of movies without actually purchasing anything from the studio directly. The group therefore is asking for an injunction on the software and associated damages."

Horse hockey. Netflix users in droves are already doing this, including um, people I know LOL. Does that mean the MPAA should shut Netflix down for being supplier/facilitators?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Oct 1, 2008 - 4:26 PM

Don't think they won't for a second try and stop it.

Please give "your friend" my thanks for the eventual increase in PITA "their" behavior will generate in DRM and asinine legislation.

You're not buying it, what makes you think you have the right to keep a copy of it?

(Oh, right...you're "entitled".)

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Oct 2, 2008 - 1:31 PM

Personally I think the entire concept of rentals should have never existed at all. However it was a compromise to allow for legal fair use doctrine and as such was a required thing to happen to secure such freedoms. Even back in the VHS days when I worked in a rental store, I witness several people come in and rent stuff and bring it back and you know they just recorded it... You could see it in their patterns of renting. Rent 3 or 4, next day return all them, rent 3 more, till suddenly nothing for several weeks or months then rinse and repeat. Its the exact methodology going on in Netflix and blockbuster now.

So it is happening... Its obvious. But real is hardly the problem either... There are many many rippers for dvds that take a DVD down to a mpeg or AVI even... Even the opensource copiers are darn near perfect. DVDXcopy has yet to fail even on some of the hardest to copy dvds. Thankfully they have their own backup warning on their copies so its obvious its a backup... That at least prevents th mass market piracy off the street corner from using such software... But there is several others that do the same thing without the warning. at least Real was encoding it for their players and it was such a HUGE file it would never be very popular to move around at such a size.

Point is the industry is in the process of evolving FINALLY. they know that if you buy a dvd your likely going to want to put it on your portable player, so now finally they are providing digital copies of the movie ON THE DVD ITSELF!!! and then you can just move it to a ipod or archos or whatever... Thats huge!!! They are finally getting it! I mean who really wants to sit there and rip and burn DVDs really? No one. not when they can just go get the release and have a digital copy provided for them... thats near perfect IMHO.

All the industry need do is make it so the only Rentals available are those WITHOUT the digital copies on them. And then you got a dam near perfect system IMHO. Near perfect cause even if the rentals are the most DRMed versions of the discs there will always be a way to record it. cause you have to see it so its recordable in some way... Always has to be the poison pill minority that causes the problems for the legitimate masses that use fair use legally.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 3:11 PM

now finally they are providing digital copies of the movie ON THE DVD ITSELF!!! and then you can just move it to a ipod or archos or whatever... Thats huge!!

I know..that nearly blew me away the first time I heard that in a commercial. They didn't slip it in on the sly, they actually *advertised* the ability.

Things may finally be looking up...

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 5:51 PM

What a tool....

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 9:36 AM

What an immature, irresponsible, pathetic whiner.... [smiles]

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 7:40 PM

Tool, what else do you expect from someone who thiks the government is their mommy?

He'e entitled...as well as an idiot.

Score: 0

By LGgeek

edited Oct 1, 2008 - 5:40 PM

But if I bought it then I should be able to make a copy for backup purposes in case the disc gets scratched with use. You have no problem with , right?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Oct 2, 2008 - 9:37 AM

If you bought it? Sure, no problem.

I have no issues with the First Sale Doctrine.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 7:43 PM

For a RENTAL disk?

Go back and read it again!

Score: 0

By sjc001

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 3:17 PM

This is all going down the suers? [smiles]

Score: 0

By dvferret

posted Oct 1, 2008 - 4:36 PM

lol nice

Score: 0

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