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Steve Jobs criticizes Microsoft on Zune, says Blu-ray won

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews

January 18, 2008, 4:43 PM

The Apple CEO was blunt that he believes the Zune is a failure, and that Blu-ray may have won the format war, but has probably lost the HD content battle.

His comments came as part of an interview with CNBC's Jim Goldman on Tuesday. While Jobs is not necessarily known for his subtlety, his statements are about the most direct on either topic so far.

When Goldman told Jobs about Microsoft executive Robbie Bach's comments that he thought the new Zune was a worthy alternative to Apple's iPod, Jobs all but called Bach crazy.

"Was he inebriated? Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?" he said of the device.

As to Blu-ray, he said that the format had won the war over HD DVD. Yet in the end, he continued, its likely not going to matter with the advent of HD downloads. Jobs' opinion is not all that far-fetched: many analysts have said that the only thing the battle may have yielded is enough time for streaming HD to become a viable option.

Other highlights of the interview.

On China Mobile: "People just make this stuff up." He claims an executive from the carrier has visited Apple only once.

On the MacBook Air: "Intel did a great job in miniaturizing its very fast Core 2 Duo processor. There was lots more to do though ... we probably built 100 models to get to this."

On the iPhone: "The customer feedback is just off the charts ... I think to make a product that's so beloved, you just know its going to be really successful."

More of the interview can be found on the CNBC website.

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By 2733q

edited Feb 1, 2008 - 4:28 AM

I don't care about MS or Apple as I build my own computers and operating systems that are compatible with programs made for both; iPod or Zune? I do away with both and use a Sandisk Connect and as for HDDVD or Blu-ray I don't have a preference because I have a combo drive that supports both. Does this mean I'm neutral? yes, but I was once a Windows fanboy and an iPod lover but I wanted the best of both worlds and became neutral.

Score: 0

By OfNoConsequence

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 1:12 PM

I own a Zune, have since they first came out. The argument that Zunes are inferior to iPods because not as many people own them is ludacris. Yes, the Zune could be better with some of it's functionality, but it's firmware upgradeable with regard to functionality and I know enough people with Zunes that the music and photo wireless sharing is actually useful. Also, with the built in radio tuner, you get the Zune FM transmitter and you suddenly can live share your music with *ANYONE* who's device has a built in FM tuner. Jobs needs a reality check performed upon him. I think he's been spending too much time at high altitude, it's killing off his brain cells.

Score: 0

By Daedalus454

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 1:14 PM

Wow, Steve Jobs hates the Zune? Who would have thought?

I've got one, they are really nice, and I've had more than one iPod-owning friend tell me that they like the Zune's UI and menus better than their iPod.

And HD downloads? Come on. It would take me days if not weeks to download the 50 GB or so that a Blu-Ray disc can hold. And that's with a reasonably fast DSL connection.

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 3:58 PM

Weeks? Even on my pathetic DSL connection I could download that in a couple of days easy. Besides, you make it sound like connections are never going to get any faster. I think I mentioned this before but just a year or two ago I was on 56k dial up. A few years before that it was 14.4, where loading a simple web page could take an eternity.

Some places have connections already making a 50GB download practically nothing, and the other poster is correct. 50GB really isn't needed for a good quality movie. I think it's been pretty much agreed upon that there's no real discernable difference between movies on 30GB HD DVD's discs and those on Blu-Ray's 50. Plenty of movies were released on single layer 25GB Blu-Ray discs and even they look fine as long as they use the newer codecs. Anyway, I am no fan of Steve Jobs by any stretch but don't be so quick to dismiss HD movie downloads. They may not replace physical media anytime soon but they will happen.

Score: 0

By netjustin

posted Jan 22, 2008 - 12:17 PM

> Besides, you make it sound like connections are never going to get any faster.

You must not be using AT&T or Verizon for your pathetic DSL connection.

Score: 0

By OfNoConsequence

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 2:22 PM

Daedalus454 wrote -> "to download the 50 GB or so that a Blu-Ray disc can hold"

Sure, Blu-ray capacity is very high, but from what I understand, the studios haven't been putting the extra content that would use up all that space. HD-DVD capacity isn't quite as large and those movies do have the extra content, and they're still not full. Your argument isn't quite valid.

Score: 0

By Daedalus454

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 2:49 PM

Oh, so now since we are "only" downloading 20 GB my argument is suddenly invalid? Yeah, 50GB would take forever, but 20GB will download really quickly.

In the case of Blu-Ray, the extra space is largely used by providing lower compression rates for the video and audio, not "bonus features" or "extra content." Applying higher compression rates to speed up downloads would largely negate the benefit of going HD in the first place.

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 9:59 AM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... Its like listening to old women, hahahaha....
You guys sure like going around in circles lol!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 12:06 PM

...and you are chasing them...just like you always do...

Score: 0

By zridling

posted Jan 22, 2008 - 1:51 AM

Ouch, the stupid, it burns! Ignore the troll, folks. Stupid is as stupid writes.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 22, 2008 - 9:33 AM

Well, at least you're telling people to ignore you.

The next step is to simply not post unless you actually have something useful to add.

Oh, wait...you'd actually have to be able to come up with a single original thought first.

My bad... Continue with your infantile antics.

Score: 0

By Belarathon

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 10:13 AM

But it's so much FUN!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 9:17 AM

Steve, the duct tape only comes off for board meetings....

You'd think he, or at least a lackey of his, would have figured that out by now.

Score: 0

By Aires

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 8:54 AM

Yeah? Well I criticise Steve Jobs on "world's thinnest notebook".
Can anyone say emperor's new clothes?

Score: 0

By Rockas

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 7:33 AM

Well... all i can say is that i don't know anyone that owns a Mac but i do know they exist out there... some... eventually...

Was that real? The guy really said that? Someone checked if he was inebriated? stoned?... sorry.

PS. Long live Nokia Mobile phones... DRM music? what's that? Movies? yes... you can see them there too :-)

Score: 0

By atilaw

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 6:05 AM

" "Was he inebriated? Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?" he said of the device. "

lmao - I could say the same about the iPhone... at least M$ arn't threatening their distributors not to disclose the terrible sales figures in Europe like Apple are doing with the iPhone. In the UK alone Carphone Warehouse and O2 are both saying they can't release the figures until Apple let them.... so yeah, Zune may suck in sales - but so does his precious iPhone! :)

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 10:02 AM

lol@clueless fanboy... Gates is looking for you to do his pool lol

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 1:16 PM

Wouldn't that make you an apple fanboy since you constantly berate ms?

Score: 0

By aredo

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 5:53 AM

Steve Jobs is as much an insane greedy liar as Bill Gates is. They just want to rip customers off. Now they want to force people into buying the crappy "HD downloads" online stuff with plenty of DRM and very low quality, low bitrate encoded content. And obviously priced sky high and with no rights for the paying customers.

After Blu-Ray there is the Holographic disc 500GB-1000GB. Which should be enough for H.265 encoded 32Megapixels UHDV video content.

Score: 0

By Banquo

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 12:56 PM

Well I don't know what he lied about but Bill Gates is retired now in order to devote his life to philanthropy. So I wouldn't go so far as to call him greedy considering what he has given and continues to give to charity. What has that turtle neck wearing egomaniac Steve Jobs given, anything at all?

Score: 0

By yountmj

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 10:41 PM

Hmm... how about predictable periodic refreshes of devices with "revolutionary new features" that other companies have offered (and more) for years, yet still feel entitled to charge a premium for? :)

Score: 0

By artsimple

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 1:27 AM

Stupid comment for a head of a company whose operating system has less users then Zune owners. Isn't it?

Score: 0

By Program86

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 10:03 AM

And you have facts to back that fanboy statement up?

Didnt think so.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 1:37 PM

Zune: 8.7%

Mac: 7%

Sure, that's just share of the market, and depending on the size of the market, the actual *numbers* can vary widely, but they're close enough it could really go either way.

I think the Zune actually slipped a bit from that in December. Don't know if it's gone back up or not.

Googled those numbers, YMMV.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 7:31 PM

Its fascinating to listen to so many analyze Jobs. Who cares. He is an elitist. So what?

But where his opinion does count is in the role just as any other principal in a company who makes choices as to which format to support and thus subsequently contributes to the success or failure of a particular format or technology.

As as such Apple is supporting Blu-Ray in their computers. That does impact the mix.

And at the same time you can say that his pronouncement that the HD hardware industry is quickly being marginalized is born out by the orientation of the Mac Air which eschews a full time local real (as opposed to virtual) DVD drive opting for wireless network attachment.

The irony is that his opinion that the HD content battle over hardware is quickly moving toward marginalization by online delivery - which is also being developed as quickly as possible by the industry as it renders the entire issue of supply chain management into a secondary marginal role - complete with the extensive cost savings.

In that regard, Jobs is right on the money.

But hey, MS DID make a big deal of announcing that the Zune was available in BROWN! Now wasn't that was swooft marketing!? And i'm sure all those fanboys who dislike the iPod bought one, right??????????

What? You didn't? But its available in BROWN!!!!
ROFLMAO!!!!

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 8:31 PM

It also came in Black and White too, so because someone prefers the Zune they are a fanboy?

The same could be said about Ipod, the quality has gotten worse on them, when I have to constantly reset my ipod because it gets "stuck" thats a bug that needs to be fixed, apple even has a workaround to fixing it knowing full well its an issue.

Plus Itunes does not have a way of managing your music unless you put it in the specific itunes folder which is bs, the zune you select which folders to monitor.

For little to no marketing the Zune did pretty well.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 1:13 AM

My only mention about the Zune was that one of the featured colors was...."brown".

The irony is that is ALL I think of it.

And no, the connection to being a fanboy is by virtue of those focusing solely on the personality of Steve Jobs rather than the product or the market trends.

But your connection to owning a Zune with being a fanboy is even more insipid than most of the fanboy comments of the myriad folks who want to make Jobs into something more than the CEO of a major manufacturer and are threatened by what they say they don't care about - namely anything Apple; or those who want to make the Zune into something it isn't - and that is anything other than a minor 2nd tier product.

And you respond about the iPod, etc. etc. etc.
I guess you think I can about any of them. I don't. All of the compressed low-fi volatile formats are worthless from my perspective. So, who cares, except to acknowledge that online deliverables present a viable market.

But you obviously missed the significant point - and Jobs happened to get it right.

The HD hardware format war is now secondary to the advent of online HD deliverables.

Go find someone else to haunt about the iPod or the Zune available in the oh so trendy "BROWN".
Gee and I even (almost) managed to avoid making a wry reference to the obvious association created by the ingenuity of marketing a small brown lump. Oops.

But its great. Really. Buy a Zune. Someone should have...

Score: 0

By TIM

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 12:58 PM

I have tons of old CE devices from the 80s that are brown. Artificial woodgrain used to be all the rage...they need to bring that back!

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 7:30 PM

Atari 2600 FTW, baby! :)

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 12:09 PM

Brown, as I hear it, is actually the most popular selling color. Business users, people who aren't in the "hip" crowd (overtly showy), etc.

I've heard all the "poo" jokes, El Dingo seems to be stuck on them, but most folks can actually see the color without devolving into a 3 year old.

Score: 0

By yountmj

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 7:33 PM

Not to mention that the Commodore 64 was the highest selling single model of personal computer ever... and that was three different shades of brown.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 9:36 AM

Thank You

Score: 0

By Belarathon

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 9:00 AM

"All of the compressed low-fi volatile formats are worthless from my perspective..."

Curious what your perspective is. Does anyone remember cassettes and how volatile and fragile they were for portable use? I suppose you can argue that the best cassette recorder under laboratory conditions can meet or exceed the fidelity of a 256Kbps .mp3 clip, but those of us who are 40+ can't hear above 12000-14000hz anyway. For a child of the seventies and eighties, portable compression formats have been nothing short of a revelation and revolution. Of course, non proprietary lossless would be nice for the Zune or Ipod.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 2:22 PM

"For a child of the seventies and eighties, portable compression formats have been nothing short of a revelation and revolution."

Yup, low-fi beats hi-fi anyday. LOL!

So, given a choice between the higher fidelity source combined with decent playback equipment, and a ripped low-fi variant for the same price purchased one song at a time in a volatile format, the low-fi version is a "revelation and a revolution".

It certainly puts your other comments into perspective.

As i said, I have no personal use for the iPod or Zune, just as I had no need for a cassette Walkman. And while I recognize the market for such within the trendy commoditized marketplace, I have no problem with others capitalizing on this marketplace.

And is the Zune a "competitor" to the iPod, look at the sales figures. End of story. A Sony Walkman is a worthy alternative, but neither is it a significant "competitor".

But while you folks continue to focus on the online audio deliverables while ignoring the larger implications of the marketability of the online delivery of video material, the significance of the market moving towards online deliverables will marginalize the HD hard copy market just as it has the audio market. And this fact, combined with the lack of a compelling reason for people to spend ~$5-600 for a Blu-Ray profile 2 capable platform when a $50 Toshiba 1080p upconverting DVD player is readily available providing 90% functionality, will render HD-DVD and Blu-Ray a niche product.

And in this regard, Jobs is merely stating the obvious market trend correctly identified by so many in the market. But instead or recognizing the larger market trends, we get to listen to the insipid rants of the fanboys more concerned with Apple vs MS, iPod vs Zune, Jobs vs Gates, and all of the other crap better reported on TMZ than understanding the larger more significant market development.

And going one step further, advances in tape (you know, the media that was declared dead just 5 years ago) and the increases in density and the drop in prices for hard drives have rendered HD recorded content passe' for widespread use in IT.

The format battle and the persistent high costs have rendered the HD hard copy market into a marginalized niche market that will be soon further marginalized by online deliverables just as audio has.

So continue to be amazed with your "revolutionary" low-fi product that costs the same - or more - per song than the hi-fi alternative. I will personally persist in listening to the higher fidelity version (from which I can rip a low-fi version if I choose). And if you can't hear the difference, you might want to wash your ears...or continue to lower your standards.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 2:50 PM

The majority of the world could care less about fidelity, also with cds being sold less and less, some artists have gone digital only.

It is in a way a revelation as it makes it convient to listen to music on the go, keeping your workload light.

I really have no clue why you comment on half of this stuff as it has nothing to do with you as you have already stated, yet you like trying to prove your "intelligence" over everyone else. The fact you brought up the brown zune really shows your maturity.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 4:58 PM

Of course you don't get it, as you failed to do in your first response.

Because you only see things in terms of what you personally 'get' from it.

I personally DON"T care about lossy MP3s. And yes, the 'normally' available downloads are discernible on a quality system! And the bit rates of the files to which you refer are NOT generally available as a download - so figure out what you are talking about!

And while I personally don't have any use for the format, I DO RECOGNIZE IT AS A VIABLE BUSINESS MARKETPLACE. AND THAT WAS MY INITIAL POINT THAT JOBS ACCURATELY IDENTIFIES!

Just as online deliverables are marginizing audio hard copies, the ability to deliver online video content will marginalize the video hard copy market. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that is exactly what Jobs - and a plethora of others familiar with evolving business models have stated!!!

But you adolescent fanboys still want to debate over which MP3 player is better, or who is best, Apple of MS (and I know that the iPod is not by default an MP3 format device gameboys!)

So, in the video content market format war between HD-DVD and BluRay, the winner is going to have a Pyrrhic victory, as the material costs to enter the market are prohibitively high to so as to fail to compete against the ROI offered by cheap upscaling DVD players accompanied by commodity priced software; and in addition, the advent of online lossy HD video delivery will further render the HD video hard copy market a niche market!

I find it fascinating that each one of you keep saying that this is what has happened to the audio market segment, but because it was Jobs who said it regarding the video market (along with so many others!) you get your panties in a wad and want to debate which is better, the Zune or the iPod in ridiculously divergent debate that misses the fundamentally valid point- which is that the same thing will happen to the HD hard copy market Duh!

I don't care about your low-fi lossy formats, but I do understand the market. Oh, and to really offend your adolescent sensibilities, I don't like rap - the music by people who can't play music. And just like all high end audio is being reduced to a niche market, and the hard copy deliverables in particular (remember DVD-A and SACD???), so will the HD video hard copy market be reduced to a niche market by the lack of a compelling reason pay the price to upgrade and the advent of online deliverables.

So fanboys go play with your brown Zune. And tell me how brown is somehow supposed to imply woodgrain. And keep telling yourself that low-fi lossy MP3s are equivalent to higher bitrate sources. I'll stick to the higher quality source material while recognizing that it is a niche market. But at least I will do it knowing why I do it. You folks, thinking lossy MP3s are equivalent to the source material haven't a clue.

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 6:06 PM

Once again you reduce your posts to a childish rant, rather then speaking like an adult you use clever terms as fanboy and again you bring up brown, last time I checked color had no bearing on how the device works, but keep up the fashion.

What "I don't get" is why you come in threads that reflect you in no way nor have you used any of the mentioned devices and go on this long tirade of nothing.

Except one problem video downloads are much bigger and take up more bandwidth, ISP's as it is want to put a cap on it, downloading HD video with a cap, yeah thats not going to work so well.

Actually, Ipod is well known and has been marketed to death, take a poll and ask to name more then one mp3 player, chances are ipod will be the only one they know.

You also missed the point, everyone is debating as it was wholely unprofessional for him to state the Zune isn't even in the same league, funny thing as someone else pointed out Zune has more marketshare then Apple's Computer line, they must be nothing too right?

Rofl @ it doesn't matter what I or anyone else on this board thinks is better as joe average is the one buying from Itunes or digital media and will be the ones who take over, vinyl is still the superior format but how often do you see brand new vinyl other then from djs?

Score: 0

By Belarathon

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 5:55 PM

Whatever gets you through the night. Both players have lossless capability, and both are available with big enough drives to make lossless playback practical. Your point is moot. As verbose as you are, I'm surprised you actually find the time to *listen* to anything!

Score: 0

By Belarathon

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 2:48 PM

Low-fi? Please. I seriously doubt whether *you* could discern the difference between the source material and a (relatively) high bitrate mp3 rip in a double blind test.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 5:22 PM

Try it in an empty room with a pair of quality speakers (and a player that doesn't down/up convert everything to a fixed bitrate).

I can tell the difference between a 192 bitrate MP3 and the CD. It's even worse if they've attempted to "mormalize" the volume (which, even on low-end speakers makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I want to crawl out of my skin).

The extremes of both the high and low ranges are cut out on MP3, pure and simple, no matter the bitrate. On speakers that can play those ranges, many folks, contrary to what the MP3 fanatics will tell you, *can* hear the loss of those ranges.

Could you hear CRT monitors squeal? I'll never forget the day we got rid of the last one here at the office.

Score: 0

By terminalx

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 2:51 PM

yes most people cannot, there's a test somewhere on the web, I can't find the link but 9/10 they chose the wrong answer.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 5:00 PM

ROFLMAO!
Yeah, then it must be true.

Unfortunately, its not to someone who HAS listened to the various formats on a quality playback system - and no, I'm NOT referring to either an iPod or your Zune!

Score: 0

By terminalx

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 6:08 PM

I cannot believe how dumb you are, it baffles me and your attempt at wit is failing, try harder next time?

Maybe I should clear it up a bit as your oversized brain cannot comprehend that only a small minority are audiophiles and would recognize the difference, you know the average consumer cannot tell the difference.

(I have an ipod as well (which has been stated but you tend to pick out things and put it together to form a new meaning) but for some reason you can't stop focusing on the Zune, are you sure your not a fanboy?)

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 4:45 PM

Microsoft made a huge mistake releasing that lumbering giant, the original Zune. It looked so cheap and bulky and was a huge joke for the longest time. Rember those people that paid 700-1000 dollars for that ugly hot pink "1 of 100" Zune that they decided to release as a standard color anyways?

The latest wave of Zune players look so much better but it may be too late as Apple released thier newer thinner line of players first.

I am a huge iPod hater who owns two of them. I already have the direct connect / charger that let's me control an iPod from the touch screen in my car. Once you buy expensive dedicated accessories for a media player like the iPod, you are basically stuck buying them over and over. I have the dock for my distributed audio system that has the RF remote with OLED display and 2 way communication which shows you all of the text info on the actual iPod screen as well. It's a bargain at $159 if you would like to listen to your music in any room and hold a "virtual" iPod to control it.

I will never buy a Zune only for the fact that I have so many iPod dedicated add-on's.

_______________________________

We all know Blu Ray is "winning" but you can't say they have won unitl they have every studio on board. I think sometime later this year, Paramount and Universal will cross over to be BD exclusive which will leave HD-DVD as the next Divx (Circuit City's failed format).

I don't think HD-DVD can recover from Warners exile to BD, but you never know, they could prolong the last two studio holdouts for a long time just to spite BD.

I really don't think either format is a long term way of viewing HD movies as you can order them via PPV on Comcast, Dish, and DirecTV. At this point, I am now only renting HD-DVD and BD from Netflix and not buying any more HD movies on either format.

The problem is die hard HD-DVD fanatics will never buy a BD player or movies if HD-DVD fails. There are too many people who are heavily invested in HD-DVD as thier only HD format. Some of the comments on AVS are simply hilarious.

The plain truth is we will all be left with one format from a company who has three different profile players that will just confuse the crap out of an already ininformed and not so tech savvy public. BD will be the most confusing format when 1.1 / 2.0 movies are released.

Early dedicated set top BD users are basically screwed and this will definitely affect thier decision to keep supporting the format when they find out all of these cool new features requires them to ditch thier $1000 players to enjoy all of the intercative features.

I'll still buy a full BD profile 2.0 combo if or when they come out but until then, all HD movie buying is on hold. I'd rather rent than buy in the mean time.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 11:54 PM

It's about time you came back. :)

Score: 0

By Hollywood__

edited Jan 21, 2008 - 3:16 AM

I've been super busy, there is a custom project I have to have finished by Feb 15th and I also have to show a partially working demo by this Wednesday. I have been writing and looking at code for days on end and needed to take a break.

Besides, this place stinks of Dave's farts since Warner went Blu Ray. The moron thinks he had something to do with it I'm sure. It's common for insignificant nothings to want to be a part of something bigger, even if it's all in thier minds. It somehow makes them feel better about themselves for a couple nanoseconds until they realize thier life sucks again and they are always going to be unhappy.

Score: 0

By devreser

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 9:23 AM

He seems a lot like an unsuccessful Ted Turner. Who talks to CNBC anyway?

Score: 0

By Secret Agent Man

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 8:29 AM

I hope that everyone realizes that comments such as "I have a Zune/I-Pod", "I know/see X people with Zunes/I-Pods", "I've never seen anyone with a Zune/I-Pod" are completely frivilous in nature. Here's a hint: It means nothing. Many can (and have) post exact opposite statements. Half the comments on this page use comments like those above. It doesn't add anything to the debate except flamebait, as it determines nothing in terms of popularity of either device.

As for the article: I believe that Jobs is being a bit presumptuous on both fronts.

And just for the sake of comment irony: My roommate has a Zune... And an I-Pod (while I have a rather less fancy but very great Insignia MP3 player)!

Score: 0

By Belarathon

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 2:42 AM

BTW: If you are under the impression that Zune is dead or dying, I would suggest you visit DeviantArt and search the site for "Zune." It would seem the bear has been awakened from it's slumber.

Score: 0

By RumbleGeek

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 9:26 PM

I have a 30gb Zune, and it is a wonderful device, far better than the ipod I have. Unfortunately, MS has failed to properly support it.

Score: 0

By panic82

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 4:36 PM

Properly support it? I think they failed to properly market it. Fortunately they're now playing commercials for the 80gb model. I have a 30gb one also and I love it, it's still being supported even with the 80gb model out. They released the same version of the 80gb firmware for the 30gb models so it has all the same features, only smaller HD and a larger design. Way better than any ipod I've played with...

Score: 0

By botlaw

edited Jan 19, 2008 - 7:37 AM

Jobs is undoubtedly the most self-loving CEO on earth, and he really can't stand any competition. Of course, in the PC space, he's never really learned how to offer any competition.

Bottom line is that iPod's market share is eroding - rapidly -, and Jobs knows it. And that's entirely due to Zune.

Gene from ZuneChannel.com

Score: 0

By dougau

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 7:53 PM

botlaw said:
"Bottom line is that iPod's market share is eroding - rapidly -, and Jobs knows it. And that's entirely due to Zune."

Do you have any numbers to back that up botlaw?

Score: 0

By kashin

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 7:02 PM

While I agree that the iPod's market share is eroding, it's definitely not "entirely due to Zune", although Zune does contribute to it. The problem is that the market is already saturated with iPod players and the novelty has worn off. I know they keep coming out with new models and new features (mostly features that other players had for years) but soon that won't be enough anymore.

I'm not up to date on the features of the latest iPod models, but do any of them have an FM tuner or voice recorder yet? A few years ago I bought a Creative MuVo and iPods were all the rage at the time, yet they all lacked those two features I mentioned. My MuVo cost half the price of a similar iPod and came with both of those.

I'm sure Steve Jobs will eventually introduce a new iPod with an FM tuner in his typical overblown fashion and pretend Apple invented it. Kind of like they're trying to do with those smudgy piece of crap touchscreen on the iPhone and the new iPods. The technology of touchscreens has been around for decades (ATMs are a good example), but I've seen Apple fanatics actually get offended when someone points out Apple stole the idea from somewhere else.

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By sumone

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 12:26 PM

Give it some time. Does it mean that the Mac was a failure until the resurgence of Apple in the last 2-3 years?

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By yountmj

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 1:50 PM

Well said. :)

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By Joey Deacon

edited Jan 19, 2008 - 9:45 AM

What's a Zune?

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By dvferret

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:48 PM

Its something that people care about more than they do you.

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By bobthegoat2001

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 8:12 PM

That was pretty good.

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By Hollywood__

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 3:32 AM

Brilliant! I think by now he's (Dave) come to realize what a human turd everyone knows he is. His desperate attempts to appear important (the dusty entertainment center, someone elses badge to some off the wall electronics show in Prague, etc..) are the signs of a born loser who wants people to think they are important but deep down, they always know they will fail at everything.

Remember Dave, the empty cart makes the most noise. You are the empty cart just in case that went over your head.

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By SlapShot

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 11:17 AM

it's a great media player dave

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By pitdingo2

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 8:12 AM

"Do you even know anyone who owns a Zune?"

Nope. Still have yet to see a M$ Zune outside of a store. I ride the train into the city everyday too. I see tons of iPods and iPhones though.

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By Belarathon

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 6:24 PM

I would imagine that's because many people consider iPods and iPhones fashion accessories - You know..."I'm in with the in crowd, baby..."

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By dvferret

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:50 PM

Yah actually ive seen quite a few people around school with zunes, more often than ive seen iphones.

bet dave thinks im full of crap, yet its the truth!

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By SlapShot

edited Jan 19, 2008 - 11:16 AM

i have a zune, and my cousin says it's much better than the ipod

now i'll wait for you to attack me with i'm just a M$ troll

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By Joey Deacon

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 9:38 AM

Don't know of a single Zune owner. I know about 50 iPod owners.

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By Banquo

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 4:01 PM

Don't know a single iPod owner, but I know about 175 Zune owners. See I can make totally unsubstantiated claims also, and pretend that my knowing or not knowning people who own a certain product actually makes any bit of difference.

You're not that important, get over yourself.

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By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 9:15 AM

So Apple fanboys gather in herds?

Who knew?

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By terminalx

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 6:02 PM

Yeah, they call it Macworld. :)

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By yountmj

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 11:19 PM

Yep, and it's during that time that all the sheep are sheared. Out with the old, in with the new. :)

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By Hollywood__

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 3:37 AM

We all know you hang around with other sheep Joey.

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By bobthegoat2001

edited Jan 20, 2008 - 8:15 PM

I know about 50 Xbox 360 owners and not a single PS3 owner.

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By siryak

edited Jan 19, 2008 - 1:07 PM

I don't know any Mac owners. Guess that means it sucks too.

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By templar™

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 4:22 AM

At least first generation Zune users were given FREE upgrade that included new features meant for Zune 2.0.

First generation iPod Touch users have to pay $20 to enjoy the same.

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By kashin

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 1:29 AM

The head of a big company badmouthing a competing product is completely unprofessional. I used to think Sony was run by the most arrogant group of fat cats and no one could be worse. Lately Steve Jobs and his cronies have been doing a fine job trying to wrestle away the title from Sony.

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By dvferret

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:51 PM

And this is the exact reason why I do not like Apple. As soon as Steve is gone, I shall reconsider whether I accept Apple or not.

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By WABBIT_TOONZ

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 1:09 AM

Steve Jobs was at the right place at the right time . like a 1 in a billion chance he could be a winner.
this hapen a LONG LONG LONG LONG time ago
yes he needs to step down and go fishing now .

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By ArcHammer

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 12:47 AM

Zune is a fine alternative. Though I wouldn't expect anything classy coming out of jobs mouth, as he loves to snub some of his biggest fans then laugh at them...

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By skimore

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 7:47 PM

HAIL THE ALL MIGHTY STEVE JOBS!!! IF YOU DO NOT CONVERT TO APPLE HE WILL SEND YOU TO HELL AND BILL GATES WILL BE WAITING FOR YOU!!

This what Apple zealot's believe apple is not just a company to these people it's a movement. It's almost as powerful as scientology. just talk to a apple freak about it. They are so left wing it's freaky..

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By terminalx

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 9:22 PM

That second part reminds me of the scientology episode on south park, "this is what they really believe..."

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By sjc001

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 8:30 PM

Hey, I'm left-wing and I like Linux better. :)

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By skimore

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 8:33 PM

I use Linux also.. but really it's about that your trying to do with the OS right??? Windows Servers work great for alot of the enterprise and Linux works great for other parts.. (email/spam gateways, firewalls etc..)

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By rsx508

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 7:36 PM

Wintel is dead. Long live Apptel.

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By cool_guy

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 11:44 PM

It s not Apptel, it is Mactel.

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By frankwick

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 7:16 PM

Predictable

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By mrmshrm

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:31 PM

HD downloads are not gonna matter if ISP's start applying caps on how much you can download i think DVDs will be around for a long time

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By Setian^Stalker

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 7:45 PM

It's not the download caps that is going to slow the uptake. Content providers need to get proactive and start talking business with these ISP’s
They can deliver X amount of content to X customers on X ISP. From what I have seen around the world many ISP’s already do content partnerships for various media. HD is just the next step

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By Galway

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:53 PM

I quite agree, I think people are all to ready to think what technology can offer rather than on the limits to achieve it. The vast majority of people I know would not be prepared to jump though the hoops to achieve what they can already do via DVD rental and subscription TV.

I see the public wanting a disk based product with the downloaders being the minority. I think the subcription tv based companies being the most to gain sector. With more advanced boxes to store and download for viewing later packages being what many will tollerate.

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By Banquo

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:49 PM

I think they'll have no choice but to give up on download caps the same way companies have had to give up on DRM. All it takes is for one ISP to offer unlimited downloads. If the other ISPs enjoy having customers they'll have to follow.

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By Peregrine1970

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 12:40 AM

The problem is, most people don't have a choice for broadband. The capital city (man I hate this town) of oregon. We have 2 broadband providers (not counting satellite). Comcast (crapcast) and Qwest DSL. Large sections of the city still aren't serviced with dsl, and this gives no choice but to be 'serviced' (up to the shoulder with no lube) by comcast. While, what you are saying is true, it only applies to communities that actually have choices.

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By Frostek

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:45 AM

Incorrect. Most people in the US may not have a choice.

Most other countries tend to have a choice... I've got loads I can choose from in the UK.

Hey, how come I'm always hearing about the free market, and how consumers decide stuff over there? Wouldn't that lead to choice logically?

I can imagine that living out in the middle of nowhere might be a problem, but there should be many choices in a big city...

What went wrong?

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By dvferret

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:54 PM

Because no other company is in the area. You cant expect all ISP companies to provide access aross the US.

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By PC_Tool

posted Jan 21, 2008 - 1:33 PM

No, but if some of these folks have their way, we'll be paying twice as much so that they do...

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By mrmshrm

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 7:54 PM

If thats the case.Then ISPs better call Roto Rooter man to fix the pipes for all that bandwidth its gonna take to handle the HD downloads

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By Banquo

edited Jan 18, 2008 - 10:52 PM

A few years ago I was on 56k dialup using half century old copper phone lines. Last year we finally got fiber optic lines run and DSL. It will take a while but I'm sure they'll update the infrastructure as time goes by, especially if there's money to be made. Anyway it seems to be holding up pretty well so far with all the torrents people are running constantly.

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By Belarathon

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:31 PM

Just keep up the fab PR work Steve, I'll continue to enjoy my Zune, thank you very much.

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By ogman

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 11:00 PM

Me, too. I switched after one too many lousy experiences with iTunes.

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By Frostek

posted Jan 19, 2008 - 5:46 AM

I don't have iTunes on my OS, so I find myself well sorted with Amarok, gtkpod and other quality programs.

The ipod isn't married to iTunes as much as Apple would like you to think.

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By yountmj

posted Jan 20, 2008 - 3:05 AM

Exactly.

When I want to transfer music to the iPod quickly, ml_ipod does the trick just fine through Winamp.

If I want a little more control, or if I want to copy the music back to the PC, SharePod works beautifully.

No iTunes for me.

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By kashin

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:02 PM

Steve Jobs is like that weird rash you got in Vegas. You just have to ignore it and hope it goes away, but in your heart you know it will keep coming back every now and then to cause you discomfort.

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By alphatrigon

posted Jan 18, 2008 - 6:00 PM