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The IPv6 experience: Are you experienced yet?

By Tim Conneally, BetaNews

March 11, 2008, 5:07 PM

Now that ICANN is in the process of upgrading its root servers to handle IPv6 records, somebody has to get the word out to businesses about the benefits of the updated protocol.

The Internet Engineering Task Force is hosting the "IPv6 Experience" in Philadelphia, a meeting geared largely toward generating interest in the next generation IP.

One activity at the convention is an immersive exercise where IPv4 access is turned off, and all attendees can only connect to IPv6 addresses. The outcome, IETF hopes, will be an improved awareness of how IPv6 "just works," and how much more work is needed to facilitate a global rollout.

IPv4 is in a critical state, and some speculate that the window of viability for its four-octet enumeration system has less than two years before unallocated IP addresses are exhausted. When this occurs, network operators and other entities who rely on numbering allocations on the IPv4 standard will find obtaining new addresses for their networks increasingly difficult and expensive. Implementation of these IPs once obtained could also suffer as a result of a drop in efficiency.

In order for IPv6 to see a complete transition, three areas need to be brought up to speed: the "Three P's": Protocol, Product, and Practices.

Protocol is stable, as it's been in development for almost ten years. Products have presented a problem in rollout because many major software providers cannot agree upon Zone ID syntax, as explained in this PDF file from Cisco.

One problem Zone IDs face involves the use of a single character, %, which is a part of IPv6 shorthand. It's used in resolving routing dilemmas, but since % is also an important character in URIs, operating system vendors have had to implement work-arounds for how the character is encoded. As a result, Windows, Linux, and BSD all have their own approaches to the matter.

And since enterprise networks are largely heterogeneous, vendors for software that have to implement IPv6 on those networks continue to find themselves stymied.

The IETF, therefore suggests that an additional effort needs to be put forth by hardware vendors, application developers, network operators and end users for IPv6's deployment to succeed.

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By acerola

edited Mar 13, 2008 - 11:08 AM

"IPv4 is in a critical state, and some speculate that the window of viability for its four-octet enumeration system has less than two years before unallocated IP addresses are exhausted."

I think the first time I heard this was 1995...

Score: 0

By Hellcat_M

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 2:56 PM

Ok say that they do split up IPv4 for the regular people and IPv6 for businesses, researchers...etc. How long until the regular people using IPv4 run out of IP's? Their are more regular people using the internet and its growing faster than companies, researchers, govt..etc. So we tack on maybe another 3-4 years to IPv4 until we have to switch anyway?

If it were possible it would make more sense to just switch regular people to use IPv6 and businesses, researchers...etc to use IPv4, but that can't really happen. So we're back to everyone using IPv6.

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Mar 13, 2008 - 3:38 AM

you would be surprises how many IPs would be freed up if Gov and Corporate entities released their large IP blocks they hold in reserve. Libraries are already doing so and slowly putting up things in IPV6. But it does not effect that an IPV4 query still gets results but using only 1 address instead of 50 or whatever... Library of Congress is one such example.

And as far as intended use. All I was menaing is when the internet first came to be it was basically interconnected liabraries and government networks... The public per say had not even imagined what we have as the internet today. Indeed back in the late 80s BBS dialup services was the public craze. Then Kinda came UUNET. or Usunet or Newsgroups... Then internet services like Compuseve and AOL. Then from there it evolved into traditional internet.
Kinda abrevated as I don't want to think it all out atm, but What I was meaning that back in the 80s what we have now was never even thought of. BUt the internet pers say was actually in existance by that point. just only a few institutions used it in such a way.

That essentially is what exists today with IPV6 or what some people call Internet2. Its a fresh start, and it may be of benefit to keep some things exclusive up there for a short time. And that in turn would open up much in the tradition protocol for the public.

I believe it was Feb 3rd or 4th that IANA started allowing .Org registration on IPv6. Marking the beginning of the process IMHO. What this means is now when you bang away at search tools for IPv6 you can now get a regular name and the DNS will redirect to the IPv6 address without touching IPv4 at all. That really never happened before. But now the company can make network links to online resources in IPv6 for databases, web tools, and ect... and just use the normal naming convention for the address and not 2001:0db8:3c4d:0015:0000:0000:abcd:ef12 for example. Which if it is now Thiscompany.org in its place, allows for DNS changes in the future without having to recode the programs associated with it if the direct address becomes corrupted in some way.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 3:50 PM

Try replying in the thread you are...replying....to.

Anyway, it'd be a lot more than 3-4 years. Businesses and privately held firms hold the vast majority of IPv4 addresses, and these total in the billions. We'd be good for quite some time.

That said, another alternative would be segmenting IPV6. This would likely offer more room.

That said (no, it's not Dejavu), I'm not proposing that this actually go into effect, it was simply an impulse idea.

Score: 0

By VampireFrost

edited Mar 12, 2008 - 10:46 AM

IPv6 provides for more DNS addresses so instead of ###.###.###.### for IPv4 were as IPv6 gives you ###.###.###.###.###.###. Because everyone and their dog now has a website the W3 will be running out of DNS addresses soon. There are others advantages of IPv6 over IPv4 like greater security. So when Internet v2 starts up we will all see a benefit from it.

Score: 0

By yohimbe9

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 10:59 AM

IPv6 doesn't just add two octets. A closer approximation of an IPv6 address would be #####:#####:#####:#####:#####:#####:#####:#####, where each set would be a number from 0 to 65,535 (0 through FFFF).

Score: 0

By ingram091

edited Mar 13, 2008 - 3:50 AM

Personally I feel IPV6 should be held in reserve for Businesses, Research, Governments, and educational institutes. you know what the original internet was intended for??? Leave the public masses on the existing structure. what better place for gamers music hounds and personal networking... Seriously... that would be best for everyone keeping professional and entertainment separate. But then again thats just my personal opinion here... I love IPV6 in my business. its my personal favorite area as it reminds me very much of the old days when the internet was new and uncorrupted... Indeed tools very similar to Archie (ftp) and Veronica (gopher) and UUNET are popping up now for IPV6 (different names of course; Compass is what I am using atm), which makes it very nice for finding what you want in this new wasteland ripe for development into a professional realm of the internet.

Plus I have already seen portals for IPV6 so they can shell searches for the regular internet. Essentially its still the same network, its just a more updated protocol after all. And it keeps corporate filtering A LOT easier to do from that point on...

Score: 0

By deminicus

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 9:58 AM

as with the computer and the internet, intended use is never a reason to argue against actual use.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 12, 2008 - 10:36 AM

Bit Torrent?

Sounds like an excellent argument for Intended vs. actual use. :)

Ingram has a point here. The network is only as secure as it's lowest common denominator. If we split the network with different protocols, we might actually be able to keep one of them pretty clutter-free.

Score: 0

By deminicus

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 2:38 PM

not what i meant. i was stating that usage is not dependant on design (best way i can explain right now). In the case of bt, the fact its not used for legit reasons doesn't mean it mean you can say it is bad since it's not being used for what you intended.

car analogy(yes fear it)

you make a machine (that we would call a car) for blocking an entrance on demand, someone then takes it and uses it to drive on roads.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 3:47 PM

Well, I wouldn't call it a bad entrance blocker, but it might still be a bad car. :p

...and of course, bt isn't bad at it's intended purpose, nor is it bad at it's unintended purpose...but guess which one it will be (has been?) judged by?

Score: 0

By dhjdhj

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 12:41 PM

And who decides who goes on one vs. the other?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 1:39 PM

Pretty simple:

Corporate/business, NFP, research, education on one;

Marketing, retail front-end, and consumers on the other.

Score: 0

By improvelence

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 1:08 PM

That is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Oh yea, what a brilliant idea...lets split the internet so that we can aid in confusion and ridiculousness. Its not the businesses hogging the majority of the ip's its the private use. What you are proposing would be against everything Tim Berners Lee hoped for the web and a catastrophe for simplicity and interoperability.

Plain Stupid.
Sorry, I don't usually bag on anyone here but that was just not well thought out at all.

Score: 0

By mjcole121

edited Mar 14, 2008 - 9:14 AM

I don't understand, TBL desgined an application layer protocol that is completely transparent to this discussion. Recall,
L0 = physical (wires or fibre)
L1 = Data link (Ethernet, FDDI)
L2 = Network (IPv4/IPv6)
L3 = Transport (TCP/UDP)
L4 = Session (TCP/UDP)
L5 = Presentation (Sockets)
L6 = Application (HTTP/FTP)

I should mention, before I get flamed, my examples at layer 4 are a bit of a wash, but well so is the seven layer model (I'm a 5 layer guy myself). Anyway TBL is so irrelevent to this discussion I honestly can't think of a good analogy to describe how bad using TBL is.

Its an interesting idea, put the smallish networks on IPv6 since they won't have trouble with the migration thus buying time for the bigish networks. Where I see the biggish migrane (sorry, I had to) is that business will put off doing the updates until the last possible minute, recall Y2K?

We might as well just bite the bullet and wait until the RIRs say "sorry dude, I just don't have any more IPv4s that I can give you, but how about a nice /48 IPv6 block?" It'll cause a few late nights for network engineers like myself, but hey, maybe I'll get a raise for all that extra work... ;)

Score: 0

By ingram091

posted Mar 13, 2008 - 3:06 AM

Nonono Your missing the point. What we consider Wan Intranets now would be a benefit to be on IPV6... Or at least the background stuff per say... where as the Public image profile would still have a frontpage per say on the original protocol.

How to determine who gets what for access. its pretty simple. It all depends how you register your request through Icann or whatever... Generally, EDU, GOV, Corp, ORG, whatever would get that option for IPV6. Any other option would be traditional public access..

Thats all I was saying... And yes I would expect a IPV6 address to be more expensive for exclusive access rights. I would think anyone would expect that...

ATM IPV6 has limited DNS systems so much of what you do has to do with banging away at a Archie type system to find the address of what your looking for in order to gain direct access to the resource... Sometimes you can google it and find the address in IPV6 but not often.

As it is IPV6 is going to happen. It has too. there really is not much choice. But we have control of as both consumers and developers, is how to manage that for our best use. Imagine if a good 90% of all .GOV, .EDU, .ORG, or whatever is moved to IPV6... that would be a make a huge chunk available to public use again.

I mean many corps get HUGE blocks in IPV4 that they will NEVER use, but want it JUST IN CASE...
IPV6 makes it possible to have 1 or 2 addresses in IPV4 and the large block up in IPV6. That alone would make a world of difference IMHO.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 12, 2008 - 1:44 PM

I wasn't going to comment due to the whole "Its not the businesses hogging the majority of the ip's its the private use" bit, but...

What confusion? Joe and Jill would see no difference, no changes. I am confused as to how that would confuse them.

What you are proposing would be against everything Tim Berners Lee hoped for the web and a catastrophe for simplicity and interoperability.

Then you have no clue what's being proposed and you need to settle down a bit and apply some actual thought before commenting. :)

Score: 0

By mjm01010101

edited Mar 11, 2008 - 11:29 PM

Why would they implement zone id's with that flaw well after browsers have used them in other ways? And why should the browsers have to work around this?

Score: 0

By The MAZZTer

edited Mar 11, 2008 - 11:51 PM

If it's used in routing, why would it matter if it appears in the URI? When routing only the IP address is needed, which is usually resolved from the hostname. The path and query string is only needed by the browser and sent to the server AFTER you've connected, by then routing isn't a problem anymore.

Hostnames don't look like an issue either, unless the browser you're using doesn't understand IPv6 addresses when input directly into the browser, or doesn't understand IPv6 addresses at all when received as a DNS reply. But that is all browser or OS support, nothing to do with the actual network or with % characters.

Either I'm missing something, or the article writer is confusing something or left something out.

Score: 0

By mattinsurfers

posted Mar 11, 2008 - 8:08 PM

Great comment about Al Gore, coldest winter on record and he is in hiding. we will see him again when the the temperature rises in the spring and summer.

Anyone have a great "how to" or "guide" for IPv6?

Score: 0

By The MAZZTer

posted Mar 11, 2008 - 11:53 PM

Here's my guide. If you don't have an IPv6 network, disable the protocol (if you have Vista it's enabled by default) as it only slows down the establishment of network connections as Vista tries to use IPv6 for every. single. connection. before it switches to IPv4 JUST for that connection. Then it tries IPv6 again for the next connection.

Score: 0

By cupsdell

posted Mar 11, 2008 - 10:48 PM

There is a difference between weather and climate. Weather is chaotic, is more variable, and therefore obscures changes in climate.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 9:34 AM

Wow. Excellent cover.

That ought to hold 'em back for a while.

*laughs*

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Mar 11, 2008 - 8:42 PM

Hate to admit it, but for IPV6, everything (and more) you might want to know about it, wikipedia is an excellent resource,

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Mar 11, 2008 - 9:30 PM

why exactly do you hate to admit it?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 9:34 AM

Because it's wikipedia.

Duh?

Score: 0

By dhjdhj

edited Mar 12, 2008 - 12:42 PM

So you feel that because a few articles have been messed with, they're all bad!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 1:37 PM

lmao..

That particular reputation is well-earned, my friend.

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Mar 13, 2008 - 12:05 AM

i'd really love to know what your ultimate source of knowledge is seeing as we've all heard of the study between encyclopedia britannica and wikipedia and anyone can publish a book in general.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 13, 2008 - 9:09 AM

ultimate source of knowledge

No such thing.

Most folks use multiple sources. No single source is 100% reliable and some are much worse than others.

Score: 0

By improvelence

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 1:10 PM

There are a lot more than just a "few" mistakes on Wikipedia.

Score: 0

By Paradise-FH-

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 11:59 PM

oh is it only wikipedia that has this problem?

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Mar 13, 2008 - 9:09 AM

Did *anyone* say it was?

Relax, man.

Score: 0

By forgie

posted Mar 11, 2008 - 6:32 PM

Where's Al Gore when you need him, he invented IPv4!

Score: 0

By improvelence

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 1:10 PM

He is working on IPv8

Score: 0

By mattinsurfers

edited Mar 11, 2008 - 8:09 PM

Great comment about Al Gore, coldest winter on record and he is in hiding. we will see him again when the the temperature rises in the spring and summer.

Anyone have a great "how to" or "guide" for IPv6?

Score: 0

By deminicus

posted Mar 12, 2008 - 9:56 AM

just fyi, global warming is avg planet temp, not seasonal temp. think if it as an unstable climate, therefore a colder than normal winter is within spec.

Score: 0