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Toshiba denies rumors; HD DVD not dead yet

By Nate Mook, BetaNews

February 18, 2008, 11:31 AM

Despite reports to the contrary spreading like wildfire around blogs and mainstream news sources Monday, Toshiba said it has not made any decision to halt production of HD DVD players, while acknowledging it is evaluating its strategy moving forward.

The hubbub over HD DVD's demise began on Friday, when a brief article published in Hollywood Reporter cited an anonymous source claiming that Toshiba was making plans to exit the HD DVD business, spelling an end to the format that has been locked in a bitter war with Sony's Blu-ray format. Reuters spread the story around the world due to its syndication agreement with the Hollywood paper.

The initial report was authored by Thomas K. Arnold from HomeMediaMagazine.com, an unabashedly pro-Blu-ray outlet that has published editorials from Arnold entitled, "A Plea for a Unified Blu Future" and "HD DVD Backers Should Call It a Day." Japanese public broadcaster NHK repeated the speculation over the weekend, further fueling the fire.

But Toshiba refused to comment on the reports when they cropped up Friday, telling BetaNews it "does not comment on rumor and speculation." The company then issued a statement over the weekend saying it "has not made any announcement or decision" to abandon HD DVD.

Such speculation is nothing new for the format. In early January, the Financial Times reported that Paramount would leave the HD DVD camp to join Blu-ray. Hollywood paper Variety then claimed Universal Studios would do the same. Both reports were proven to be false.

A Toshiba spokesperson did acknowledge, however, that "We are currently assessing our business strategies, but nothing has been decided at the moment." Toshiba says it has been evaluating the situation ever since Warner Bros. announced on the eve of CES 2008 that it would stop producing movies in the HD DVD format by June. Still, nothing has been decided thus far, the company asserts.

Sources inside the HD DVD Promotional Group tell BetaNews that Toshiba has been looking closely at sales figures and examining the format's future from a business perspective for the past month. That situation was impacted last week when Wal-Mart announced it would remove HD DVD products from store shelves by June.

The lack of strong public support for HD DVD by Toshiba could be a bad sign for the millions of consumers who have taken advantage of low price points to upgrade to the high-definition format. Although it continues to support HD DVD for the time being, the result of its business assessment could lead Toshiba to call it quits.

Whatever it decides, Toshiba is unlikely to cut and run without some sort of transitional plan. With over one million customers and two Hollywood studios still exclusively backing HD DVD, the company would face numerous lawsuits from individuals and companies alike. Toshiba will also have to deal with how to deplete existing stock, which could mean great deals for those who don't mind having both HD DVD and Blu-ray players in their living room.

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By Black-Wolf

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 6:13 PM

Toshiba (??) is screwed!

Score: 0

By Adrian79

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 12:18 PM

At just after 3:00 am Eastern Time, Toshiba officially pulled the plug on its efforts to promote and manufacture HD DVD home theater consoles and disc drives, announcing it will shut down production by the end of March.

Score: 0

By jotte_ct

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:25 AM

They just denied the denial... so it's officially OVER!

Score: 0

By Metshrine

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:39 AM

I leave you all with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywWfmRdOmJ0

Score: 0

By Metshrine

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:24 AM

The war is over!!!! The superior format has finally won and emerged victorious

Score: 0

By deminicus

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:19 AM

its over, now we only have vista to flame about.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:31 AM

LOL funny

Score: 0

By wolfcat

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:16 AM

http://www.abc.net.au/ne...7196.htm?section=justin

Japanese electronics giant Toshiba has admitted it has lost the battle to shape the next generation of DVD technology.

The company says it is abandoning its high-definition format, HD DVD, handing control of the market over to the rival Sony model, Blu-Ray.

The announcement ends years of fierce competition between the two companies.

Sony was able to gain the upper hand in the DVD battle by winning the support of Hollywood studios and major retailers.

Score: 0

By Aires

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 5:26 AM

n/a

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 3:08 AM

Tosihba have officialy thrown in the towel.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp...ress/2008_02/pr1903.htm

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

By ceasing production of HD DVD hardware, this releases Paramount and Universal from their contracts, meaning both companies are free to produce Blu-ray if they wish.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:51 AM

Finally, maybe you tards will go home now.

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 4:57 AM

Is this the end of stupidity finally?

Score: 0

By pridewalker

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 5:50 AM

Give him time...I'm sure that he has a few more miles on that...

On topic however, such is life.

As I posted further down this page, less than 2% of all movie sales in the US, last year, involved hd media. Quite a war they've won.

Score: 0

By mthayer

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 12:12 AM

I dont care which way this goes HD DVD or BLUE-RAY. We need to sweep it under the rug and move on with one standerd HD format. So everyone can head in one direction, movie studios and consumers alike. Just give us one standard format!!!!!

Score: 0

By davidlerner

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 10:29 PM

Its not over till toshiba throws in the towel!
www.talkprice.net

Score: 0

By Metfanant

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:39 PM

throw in the towel Toshiba!...

if anyone is holding back the HD Media market right now its Toshiba...plain and simple...lets move on...I welcome Toshiba BD players...they will surely be top quality

Score: 0

By kashin

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 1:29 AM

"throw in the towel Toshiba!..."

Alright, so Toshiba throws in the towel. Then what? We're stuck with BD players in the range of $399-$1299 even if we include the PS3. Who's going to buy a $399 game console to play their movies? Not to mention BD is still an incomplete spec. There are no profile 2.0 players on the market right now. How is this a good thing?

Toshiba giving up would be one step forward and two steps back, as the saying goes.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:33 AM

Yeah cos it's going to stay at that price for years now, eh? Nope, obviously not.

*rolls eyes*

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:57 PM

I for once would haft to agree. Toshiba needs to just throw in the towel and move on at this point. No need in sinking more money in a ship that is already sank down to the sails. They are likely holding on to try and get rid of their stock which you can't really blame them. They can't really afford any more losses right now.

Although I still would prefer HD-DVD, I am still glad the war is finally coming to a close so I can get everything on 1 player. I just wish they would hurry up and get the Blu-Ray burner prices down. That will be my next investment.

Score: 0

By bsf

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 7:28 PM

http://www.nikkei.co.jp/...9AT1D180DU18022008.html

here's the link.
Nikkei's probably one of the most trusted business news in Japan.
Go find any kind of translator to translate it.

HD DVD is gone.

They just can't really deny it from a stock point of view.

Edit: for those who's lazy to read, it approximately says HD DVD is going to halt production and development immediately, and sales are going to continue till March.
They're going to announce it 19th afternoon (It's 9:30 AM on 19th I posted this)

Score: 0

By bsf

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:36 PM

But also Toshiba's stocks are rising.
http://headlines.yahoo.c...080218-00000003-tcb-biz
due to people feeling positive about getting out of a non-profitable business.

Score: 0

By OvrLpdIO

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 6:54 PM

I'm really looking forward to all the rogue DRM software installing on my machine whenever I pop a Sony Blu-ray disc in my PC...

/sarcasm

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 6:27 PM

HD DVD also has AACS, the same copy protection..

Score: 0

By siryak

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 8:01 PM

I honestly don't know what the future holds on copy protection, but for all of us I hope they don't get too crazy with it. The fact that they hold the patents to get too crazy with it worries me, and I am not trying to flame in saying this. The copy protection patents that they hold was the #1 reason I do not like Blu-Ray. I honestly hope that my concerns are proven to be unjustified. This is a time that I DO NOT want to be right.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:43 PM

Blu ray can lock disks to players can't wait for that to happen.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 4:54 AM

Post a credible source for that "rumour" please.

Score: 0

By pridewalker

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 5:55 AM

How about the actual listing from the US Patent Office?

http://patft.uspto.gov/n...16972&RS=PN/6816972

The short form: Sony filed a patent for a piece of technology that can lock a disc (by way of code on the disc) to a specific player. While this is a means to prevent counterfieting (pirated media will be unable to reproduce this code), it also effectively prevents the loan, and or re-sale of legitimately purchased media.

Seriously, the information on this little gem came to light shortly after the PS3s release.

Granted, the existence of this patent in no way implies that they'd actually use it. Given their past track record with DRM, it's one more reason to not trust Sony.

Score: 0

By testman

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 8:36 AM

Benjamin Linus has already said it. Use your sense next time.

Further more, that page doesn't even mention Blu-ray, just "disk" so it could be for anything (maybe even removeable hard disks)! Try again!

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 12:21 PM

Apparently you missed the part where I said that just because they have the patent, doesn't mean they'd use it.

You asked for proof of the rumor...I gave it, and well, you and Ben still find a way to whinge about it.

The fact of the matter is: Sony (as well as others in the BDA) have a tool in their arsenal that CAN do this. Whether or not they will, remains to be seen. When you consider the paranoia of the various studios, in regards to piracy and lost revenue from the resale market (the second mostly from game studios), it stands to reason that this is something to (at least) keep your eye on.

How is it FUD when the proof is right there in front of you?

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:56 AM

The patent was filed before blu ray was a final product. Just because they do not name blu does not exclude it from use.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 6:11 AM

Wow you heard it here first..

You would have to be a total idiot to think that just because of a patent filing, it automatically means it's going to happen.

Patents are filed, so to prevent others from registering them.

Not only does not NOT apply to movies, it applies to games, it's also never been implemented in hardware.

Anyone find the Sony haters arguments and FUD starting the get really embarrassing???

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Feb 20, 2008 - 1:52 AM

"Not only does not NOT apply to movies, it applies to games, it's also never been implemented in hardware"

Lets have a look
'By executing the game or other program, the CPU 51 controls the graphics system 60, sound system 70, etc., in accordance with input from the user, and controls the display of images and the generation of sound effects and music. '

Other program? Guess what, the VM fits that category very well right now :)

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 5:12 PM

How can you call anyone an idiot, when you fail to grasp even the most basic reading comprehension.

Go back and read the part, in my post, where I say that just because they own the patent, there's nothing to say they will actually use it. Go ahead, we'll wait for ya to catch up...

There's no way that you can honestly believe that IF implemented, it couldn't be adapted to work with any type of disc. Implementation could be as simple as a including it in an update package (kind of like how profile 1.1 was).

How embarassing is it, that even with the actual patent filing in front of you (assuming you even bothered to look at it), you still find a way to spin it off as nothing?

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 8:58 AM

You have no clue as to what Sony can and can not do. But then again you do work for their PR department so maybe!!!!

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 6:12 PM

Not to defend Blu-Ray, but seriously...

Some software and Vista already have support for the protection on BD media. No need to "install DRM".

In fact, DRM in and of itself isn't a piece of software you'd install. It's a form of protection embedded in some content that requires supported software (and in some cases hardware) to play it back.

Software that supports DRM does just that. It does *not* hinder your ability to play non-DRM content, nor does it apply DRM to your Non-DRM protected content.

I know you were being sarcastic, but there are actually people out there who are stupid enough to fall for all the DRM FUD out there.

Score: 0

By OvrLpdIO

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 6:46 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/...copy_protection_scandal

Replace CD with Blu-ray.

"In fact, DRM in and of itself isn't a piece of software you'd install."

An application that "supports DRM" includes code that supports DRM that is installed on your machine (this includes Vista). Therefore, DRM get's installed on your machine in one form or another.

I personally don't need any extra DRM entries in my registry. Poorly written uninstallers keeps it pretty full already.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:02 PM

*laughing*

Rootkits are not DRM as Rootkits have nothing to do with rights management. You do know what DRM is, right?

DRM support, for what it is worth, does not affect anything if it is not used. The fact that given player or piece of software supports it really doesn't have any effect on your or your PC if it is not used to play back protected content.

Funny thing is...if it *is* used to play back protected content, the worst it does is...play back your protected content. *gasp* Oh, the horror...

I am beginning to suspect you weren't actually being sarcastic and actually believe the tripe you are posting here, so I will bow out and let you enjoy your "DRM free" world.

Score: 0

By OvrLpdIO

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 11:45 AM

Maybe YOU need a lesson on what DRM is. Here I'll make it easy for you and copy/paste from wikipedia.org:

"Digital rights management technologies attempt to control use of digital media by preventing access, copying or conversion by end users to other formats."

Sounds like what SONY's rootkit was trying to prevent huh?

"The fact that given player or piece of software supports it really doesn't have any effect on your or your PC if it is not used to play back protected content."

The assemblies are on my machine which likely includes registry entries for COM components and whatever else they decided to write there.

You have used a PC right?

Score: 0

By Hellcat_M

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 5:11 PM

If Toshiba is smart they'll do what LG is doing and make duel format players. This way they can keep HD-DVD alive, people can buy a duel format player for about the same price as a blu-ray. Then when people have to buy another blu-ray player when they can't play their new movies in the next 3-6 months when the series 2 comes out, then Toshiba can go in for the kill.

Maybe Toshiba and MS have something big up their sleeves. I mean $ony screwed them over by playing dirty so maybe they have plans of their own?

Score: 0

By kanuck

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 5:08 PM

http://www.youtube.com/w...s_the_Winner_2171.shtml

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 4:51 PM

Roll on the Xbox720, with built in HD-DVD. Word on the street it is rox! (lol)

What next ...

Oh yes some rumours ...

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=33119

Its from a site Ben uses so it must be true.

10 Years !! for the next PS, oh dear That's going to be some catch up.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 5:22 PM

Oh dear, another 4 year lifespan before the Xbox life machine gets switched off again. Looks like Xbox are designed for short lifes...

You heard it here folks, Galway tells you that don't buy Xbox, as it's gonna be obsolete in 18 months time...

PS1 9 years
PS2 8 years (to date)
PS3 9 years (claimed)

Xbox 3 years
Xbox 360 4 years

Who cares if the Playstations cost more, they are higher spec'd and last twice as long, and more importantly are reliable.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 3:12 AM

I was actually having a laugh. Naughty Galway, Shouldn't mock the afflicted.

Score: 0

By auiotour

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 2:48 AM

So for easy reference, it's hard to put a life span on a product that is being replaced by it's next system. Saying PS3 will last for 9-10 years, versus saying xbox 360 will be 4 is nearly speculation so those time lines don't matter currently.

Now here is the real info
PS1 1995-2000 5 years
PS2 2000-2005 5 years
PS3 2005-xxxx unknown

Thats a 5 year lifespan, people still play the xbox so technically does that give it a longer lifespan?

Xbox 2002-2005 3 years
X360 2005-xxxx unknown

NES 1985-1991 6 years
SNES 1991-1996 5 years
N64 1996-2001 5 years
GCN 2001-2006 5 years

GB 1989-1996 7 years
GB Pocket 1996-1997 1 year
GB Light 1997-1998 1 Year
GB Color 1998-2001 3 years
GBA 2001-2003 2 years
GB SP 2003-2005 2 years
NDS 2004-xxxx unknown

Now checking all those excluding PSP as it really hasn't had a physical hardware change only appearance. Sony averages 5 years till their next successor, Nintendo the same, Microsoft launched a new system cause everyone else did. I am also not going to list Sega as they have had a great handful of machines along with Nintendo that aren't worth listing.

As you can see the average console is about 5 years. With technology developing so rapidly it's not surprise. Everyone said the original xbox was so powerful yet it was replaced with the 360. In order for Sony to keep with sales they must and will release a new system within plus or minus a year's time over Microsoft and Nintendo. They will do the same thing Microsoft did by releasing a new system.

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 9:21 PM

4 year life span maybe??? well for one that would make sense as the rest of us know with tech changing on a daily basis this means CONSOLES HAVE TO EVOLVE.. in 3 years we aren't going to be using the same MS console we will have moved on to next gen while Sony will wait and see what Microsoft comes out with in an attempt to compete. By then i hope Sony is soo broken by Blow ray losses that they will see that their expansion into a further depleting video game market will force their decision to move onto another technology which they will market as a copy or of some other finished format. As for reliability by your sources *no doubt Sony internal sources* your console still lacks exclusive content or the game market that MS and the 360 continues to have.

Not to mention it seems further proof that MS sees an OD market for HD content as they continue to sign deals with studios to provide content online.

I smile every day I see a MS *which I agree is greedy* succeed in another victory over Sony which continues to lie and spread rumors through its representatives as they see no near end to a format war *which they created*. In which said lies to the consumer base and a company continues to provide substandard and unfinished into the market.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 5:51 PM

"more importantly are reliable"

PS2 and PS2 since when?

Score: 0

By alphatrigon

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 4:12 PM

toshiba and the rest of the remaining HDdvd ppl should just ignore all the rumors and keep on pushing forward. Strange as it is, this "hddvd is dead" stuff sounds more like Apple type propaganda convincing you their stuff "just works" and doesn't crash.
I own neither Bluray or Hddvd but I'm much more inclined to buy hddvd just because i don't want to be a part of that particular crowd.

Any Toshiba people who might be looking at this(toshiba company people) - join up with the Asian alternative hi-def market and reign supreme. Let the overpriced hollywood hi-def format have a victory in the US.

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 7:48 PM

I dunno, I mean I'd rather they just call it quits and start working on bringing affordable blu-ray players to everyone.
Then content providers can focus on bringing content via the internet in partnership with ISP's.
Win for everyone

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 5:25 PM

OK, time for a Hollywood style prediction.

By this time tommorrow, it will be official with a Toshiba annoucement. Even if they don't want to call it a day, the shareholders have spoken, the studios have spoken, the retailers have spoken, and the consumers have spoken.

WHEN Toshiba call it quits tommorrow, it also releases Paramount and Universal from their contracts, and meansd Warner does not have to honor it's May deadline for HD DVD releases.

http://online.wsj.com/ar...l?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 3:05 AM

Looks like the difference between Hollywood__ and myself, is that my predictions come true..

http://www.toshiba.co.jp...ress/2008_02/pr1903.htm

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 9:23 PM

Is this from the same source that told you the end was within the week and both studios were to sign bloray exclusives by the end of the said week.

BTW that was more than a month ago.. Any idea on a new eta? Or is your propaganda division too busy trying to call someone else who will publish your lies on another website?

Score: 0

By lvthunder

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 6:56 PM

At that point is when the "news" sites should be reporting this. Not a day or 2 before. I think the press should let Toshiba run it's business and not try to pull the rug out from under them by posting rumors as news.

Score: 0

By yountmj

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 1:21 AM

I agree completely.

Although, unfortunately it seems that most past rumors regarding this high-definition format war have eventually been proven correct.

I don't take anything for granted or at face value anymore. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Score: 0

By Galway

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 4:52 PM

And ben has spoke ... Anyone still awake ? Did anyone notice ?

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:49 PM

I like the way so many blu ray shills are so busy attacking the news and the people here. I guess that people forget the fact that Toshiba will be done with HD DVD when they say they are not you or anyone else. I hope Toshiba holds out a little longer knowing that the delay is just pissing you off.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:40 PM

I like how HD DVD supporters like you cling on to the belief that HD DVD is still relevant. Blu-ray has already moved on after establishing itself as the standard High Definition media. Move on.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:57 PM

It isn't and I have stated that. God you people just won't stop putting words in my mouth. I have stated that its done how much more clear do I need to be. If it makes you happy in your little world then by all means think what you want to think.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 4:58 AM

It isn't? Only two major (read major, I didn't say they were the only ones) high def media out there... and one has just announced that the main backer is pulling out.

You can keep believing the opposite, but some of us here will just get on with our lives.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 9:11 AM

Ok, once again let me repeat what I have been saying for days if not weeks. I admit that HD DVD is a dead format and really could careless. I already had both formats. Maybe you trolls have missed the part that I do have a PS3. I just preferred HD. I guess since I don't worship bluray like a religion the way you people do I am wrong. For God sake you people need to read what is saif rather then hear what you want to hear. You can say what you want but you know what the sun keeps coming up and that is all that matters. I could really careless about which format wins or won in the end.

You can keep believing the opposite which is a complete load of s***. I know who won and I have seen it coming. I didn't wet my pants and stand on the roof like you people. It is after all just a format. There are much more important things in my life than HD or Blu.

Am I bitter, not a chance. Early adopting is a risk. In the end the HD player will sit next to my laser disk player and all will be good.

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:36 PM

Walmart disagrees. Sorry Toshiba, but it's over.

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:13 PM

Walmarts not important anymore it seems. It was only important when them cheap Chinese players were on their way...

Score: 0

By pridewalker

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:28 PM

Let's not forget the blu-ray supporters' opinion of Walmart, when they were selling the HD-A2 for $99.

Honestly, though, their selection of movies (in all formats) is pretty paltry in their brick and mortar stores.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:58 PM

I guess all the trailer park trash will start buying blu ray. Is that not what they have been calling Walmart shoppers?

Score: 0

By SGD

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 3:21 PM

Walmart really is not that important at least by me. They carry maybe 15 titles out of the how many hundreds of releases?

You really like that line don't you? Some day you will give it rest.

Score: 0

By BeyondYourFrontDoor

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 1:44 PM

If Toshiba can make money on $99 HD-DVD players (as the pro-HD-DVD camp is always saying they are not selling below cost), are they not in the best position then to make the cheapest Blu-ray drive and be a leader in that area?

The issue really is with media companies, hardware companies and software companies all being the same entity... and the simple economics of 'who can make it cheapest' is replaced by selling hardware at reduced prices and making it up on licensing to studios. Esp when SOME studios are in fact yourself...

Score: 0

By nate

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:19 PM

Blu-ray drives inherently are more expensive to produce because of the requirements of the laser to read data on the disc. The numerical aperture of Blu-ray discs is much higher, which is how they can store more data. It also means the laser must be more accurate and less prone to error, which makes the whole setup more expensive.

So even if Toshiba started producing Blu-ray players, it could not make them as cheaply as HD DVD, which is more similar to DVD in this regard.

More information is available here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_aperture

Score: 0

By BeyondYourFrontDoor

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:38 PM

Haven't these products both reached the point where the laser is relatively cheap? Even if the Blu-ray costs twice as much, i can't imagine these arts are more than $10-$20 right now to start with...

Score: 0

By nate

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:58 PM

As PC_Tool noted below, the blue-diode lasers used in these HD players are still very expensive and their availability is limited. Just the optical disc reader in the PS3 alone cost Sony $125 to manufacture, according to iSuppli.

But you are correct that over time, as production increases, prices will fall. But right now the laser is most likely the most expensive part of any HD player.

Score: 0

By PC_Tool

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 2:55 PM

Okay...

The laser pens you buy at stores? Totally different animals than those in HD/BLu-Ray players. Both in tech, design, and function. The pens are not held to any standard other than not burning holes in things and not interfering with other devices. The lasers in Blu and HD are held to *very* strict guidelines, must be *very* precise, and are heavily regulated.

Not cheap to produce except in *massive* quantities, the likes of which we have not seen in the HD market to date.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 1:25 AM

http://www.wickedlasers....AR_II_Burner-73-24.html

Thought someone would get a kick out of this. :)

Score: 0

By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 1:57 PM

Toshiba are losing hundreds of dollars on every $99 HD DVD player sold. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot. There is very little component-wise that seperates HD DVD and Blu-ray players.

The fact Toshiba's share price rocketed on rumours of them ditching HD DVD, shows what their investors are thinking...

Score: 0

By nate

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:17 PM

That's not true at all.

The numerical aperture of the Blu-ray disc is vastly different than that of HD DVD, which is far more similar to DVD. That means the disc content is closer to the surface, which is why Blu-ray discs require the special coating.

It also means the laser in the player must also be far more accurate and the margin for error is much slimmer. HD DVD is more similar to DVD in this regard, which makes manufacturing the players cheaper.

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By Benjamin Linus

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 2:43 PM

You heard it here first. HD DVD is less accurate.. LOL.

No wonder it failed.

The appature size has very little bearing on the cost. The bulk of the cost is decoding hardware. Most HD DVD players use PC based chipsets and Pentum 4 processors. Only very recent ones actually had dedicated chipsets, which where still very costly.

There is a iSupply breakdown of, I think, the HD-A3, and it came to over $300.

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By dwaterman

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:47 PM

"No wonder it failed."

Bluray did not win based on its strength as a superior format, and HD DVD did not fail as a format. I'm sure that you think that the studios and stores just loved Bluray so much that they decided to ignore all of the HD DVD owners out there. It is more likely that they are getting advertising kick backs and other incentives to go exclusive.

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By nate

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 2:56 PM

iSuppli didn't do a breakdown of the HD-A3, only the first-gen HD-A1 model, which really was a computer.

iSuppli also priced the PS3 at over $800. Also note that in the PS3 break-down, the Blu-ray drive was $125 on its own: http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

Toshiba is obviously taking a loss, but so is Sony. Still, the question was whether Toshiba can make the players as cheaply and the answer is no :)

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By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:17 PM

iSupply PS3 breakdown was in November 2006. The latest price breakdown showed the PS3 at $400. Nice of you to omit that.

You also fail to mention how that Sony can do loss leaders, as it's multiple revenues to win it back, PS3 games (media and downloads), Blu-ray movies, DVD movies, music downloads and soforth. Every addition PS3 owners will be particpating in at least some of those.

What has Toshiba got?

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By kashin

edited Feb 19, 2008 - 1:12 AM

"You also fail to mention how that Sony can do loss leaders, as it's multiple revenues to win it back, PS3 games (media and downloads), Blu-ray movies, DVD movies, music downloads and soforth."

Wait, there are PS3 games that are good and selling well? Did hell freeze over? Media and downloads? Riiight, what media exactly? If you think Sony is making much money on anything downloadable for the PS3, you're sadly mistaken. Blu-ray movies you say? What's the movie attach rate of the "cheapest" BD player (aka. POS3)? Like, 0.1 or something? Hilarious. DVD movies? Music downloads? Now you're just lumping ALL of Sony's business together to make it seem like it's alright for them to be losing BILLIONS on a game console. Yet when people try to do this with Microsoft, you start foaming at the mouth about it. Funny how that works.

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By SGD

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 9:20 AM

All the troll tards will respond back with Drakes, Ratchet and Clank an other new games that in reality have sucked as far as sales go. If the games are so good why are they not selling?

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By PC_Tool

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:51 PM

The appature size has very little bearing on the cost

I'm guessing you don't play with lasers very much, do you?

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By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:56 PM

When when a Blu-ray laser costs $18, how much cheaper is a HD DVD one? Even if it's $10, that means the rest of the components are over $290.

I'm guessing you don't play with common sense much...

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By PC_Tool

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 3:36 PM

...I bet you still think aperture size has little to do with the cost. (You can't even *spell* aperture correctly)

Get back to me when you're responding to what I've actually said, not what you've imagined.\

Thanks.

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By nate

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:01 PM

Try over $100 for the laser :) That's why Sony recently announced plans to make a new one with LED manufacturer Nichia.

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By Benjamin Linus

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 3:22 PM

Bzzt wrong...

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070507PD200.html

$125 back in 2006, with $100 price reduction May 07.

Another laser price drop is due soon..

http://www.gamesindustry...tent_page.php?aid=32468

Do you make your news up?

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By Galway

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 4:39 PM

To say your not a fan boy, you sure like to post fan boy news about all things sony. Or are you a blogger, paid to come out with all this crap.

Your information though is flawed. Both say COULD, and yet no mention of an actual reduction of cost is made. Yet in the manner you sell it implies it is actually proving your main argument.

You claim not to be a fan boy, yet it so desperately appears to be true. You might want to get your researchers to do some actual real evidence next time.

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By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:22 PM

Why not CNN does.

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By SGD

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:51 PM

The less accurate one would be you.

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By Galway

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:10 PM

"There is very little component-wise that seperates HD DVD and Blu-ray players."

Yea, its the features that are somewhat lacking.

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By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:45 PM

Indeed, the lower disc space, the lower bandwidth, the crappy iHD scripting, the SD PiP..

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By kashin

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 1:21 AM

Two words about BD: INCOMPLETE SPEC.

BAM! Even now there are no 2.0 players. It only took Sony three tries to try and get it right. HD-DVD got it right the first time. Now we're trading in HD-DVD for BLO-RAY. Most of the features of HD-DVD, two years later, for three times the price. Isn't Sony bribery wonderful? I'm sure if they paid off enough people, they could convince us that lead paint is healthy and we should eat some everyday!

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By pridewalker

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:56 PM

"...the lower disc space, the lower bandwidth, the crappy iHD scripting..."

And yet, with these 'limitations', HD DVD has given a solid HD movie experience (as well as one that's more feature complete).

"...the SD PiP.."

Sorry DJ Ben, but nobody...not even you...is going to be looking for the detail provided by the higher resolutions in the PiP window. The only way that this is a benefit, is if you can switch the windows, at any time. I've seen speculatory forum posts about this happening, but nothing official, yet...

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By Benjamin Linus

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 2:59 PM

I think you mean adequete HD movie experience.

What you miss of course, having never owned a Blu-ray player, is what could be..

Well the PiP on Blu-ray allows you to swap PiP and main feature, so having both streams 1080p means no loss of quality. Even if HD DVD could swap streams, the PiP would be SD and the PiP HD..

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By pridewalker

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:18 PM

No, I mean solid movie experience...just like I said.

And 'oops'....sorry, but I own (and have used) both formats (my blu-ray player is your blessed PS3). My preference is based on this fact.

Considering that each profile update/upgrade is giving BR users functionality that HD DVD has had, from the start, I'm not missing 'what could be...'

When blu-ray actually meets its potential, I'll start buying that formats discs again.

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By kashin

posted Feb 19, 2008 - 1:23 AM

"When blu-ray actually meets its potential, I'll start buying that formats discs again."

Sometime next year.. maybe. I wonder how long before 3.0 looms on the horizon and 2.0 owners get shafted again in predictable Sony fashion. Why screw your customers once or twice, when you can do it three, four, five, etc. times?

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By SGD

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 3:59 PM

For God sake knock it off already.

Disk space is such a load of crap and everyone knows it. I guess they need all that disk space for the audio in 15 different languages.

SD Pip and all the other stuff who really cares. How is the PIP working on those profile 1 units? Oh yeah they needed that extra disk space so that could put the movie on the disk twice to have Pip. We could go back an forth all day. The war is winding down can not just grow up and move on. We all know that HD DVD is about dead but oh no you have keep spilling your vial mine is better than yours crap. What are going to do when HD is no longer in the news? I know you bring it up over and over like you always do. Get a life Dave.

See it works both ways.

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By Hocuspokus

edited Feb 18, 2008 - 1:16 PM

I look forward to HD DVD continuing to confound the critics.

Sell it as DVD+; a high quality upscaling DVD player that happens to do HD DVD.

Keep selling the HD DVD burners & all the existing media.
See what happens.

Give us a little shrink program and let us burn all the 450+ Blu-ray moves ripped on the net.

F*ck 'em, give the b@stards nothing.

It's all BS anyways.
Blu-ray will never replace SD DVD, they're just driving it up a little niche and will shaft their captive audience merrily.

HD TV & downloads are the future.

Blu-ray will never get a range of finished final spec goods out at genuine mass-market prices in time - and they themselves have repeatedly said they don't want cheap pricing.

Too little too late.

The upshot of this little war was both formats lost.

Way to go PS3 w@nkers.

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By testman

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 3:43 PM

Did someone get upset at HD DVD being canned? I think they are!

Silly Hocuspokus!

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By lvthunder

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 12:16 PM

Isn't it sad when you have to come out and deny rumors that the media is reporting. I remember when newspapers printed the news as in what happened today and left out all the rumors and speculation.

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By chia-homer

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 11:59 AM

Toshiba is anti-consumer.

THIS denial is what's hurting consumers. Pretending that they still have a chance and tricking people into buying a dead product is what will p1ss people off. Someone had a good idea. they still have inventory, well then sell it as a good upconverter in the dvd section for $99 and begin to manufacture blu.

I can't believe you people aren't more mad about this.

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By Galway

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 12:06 PM

"THIS denial is what's hurting consumers. Pretending that they still have a chance and tricking people into buying a dead product is what will p1ss people off."

Too true, they doing exactly what sony did with beta, and look how popular they are.

"I can't believe you people aren't more mad about this."

Easy, because HD-DVD has the better features, is cheaper, and is not backed by sony! Not allowing consumers to choose is a bind, but we are dealing with sony here. How to they phrase it? What they dont know about wont hurt them.

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By chia-homer

posted Feb 18, 2008 - 12:10 PM

what are you talking about. it has been reported TIME AND TIME again that the consumers DONT want hddvd. consumers want BLU.

Best buy knows what consumers want, so does Warner, walmart, netflix, and tosh