Ubuntu 9.10 upgraders report frustration

By Katherine Noyes, LinuxInsider | Published November 9, 2009, 2:16 PM

Following the Karmic Koala's joyful reception last week, sentiments toward the FOSSy marsupial have become distinctly less enthusiastic in recent days -- at least for some.

"Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala" was the headline on a piece that ran in The Register last week, which chronicled multiple cases of frustration among some users upgrading to the new version.

"More than a fifth of people upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 have reported issues they can't fix, according to an Ubuntuforums.org poll," The Register reported. "Only around 10 percent of those upgrading or installing reported a completely flawless experience."

A biased snapshot

Of course, the opinions represented in said poll aren't exactly representative of the population at large, as Slashdot bloggers quickly pointed out, biased as it is toward those with problems.

In fact, at the top of the poll, the following red-ink warning is given:

*** Disclaimer for those willing to analyse this poll *** Most of users voting here are users with issues. Users with painless experience are not likely to come here."

Nevertheless, word of The Register's report quickly spread, and bloggers far and wide didn't hesitate to register their own reactions.

"I upgraded to Ubuntu 9.10 and it is quite buggy," wrote MichaelSmith on Slashdot, for example. "Much more than previous releases. I have had to go back to the NDIS wrapper to use my WG511 PCMCIA wifi adapter. I haven't had to do that in years."

On the other hand: "The statistics derived by The Register are invalid, and probably quite wrong, being from a non-representative self-selected subset of Karmic installations or upgrades," countered AliasMarlowe.

"Here's another non-representative data set: I have installed or upgraded 4 PCs from Jaunty to Karmic at home (2 upgrade 32-bit, 1 upgrade 64-bit, 1 conversion 32-bit to 64-bit)," AliasMarlowe added. "All went flawlessly, even the migration of user accounts and reinstallation of applications (including commercial paid-for apps) on the 32-bit to 64-bit reinstallation."

Over on LXer, meanwhile, HoTMetal warned, "I've said it before and here it goes again: never, ever upgrade. Clean installs are the only way to go."

Then again: "Never upgrade? Clean install only? That's Windows-think," shot back tuxchick. "I have Debian boxes that have gone for years without ever needing a reinstallation, upgrade and dist-upgrade all the way. Though with Ubuntu upgrading to a new release has always been a roll of the dice."

Bottom line? If you're upgrading, be prepared at least for the possibility of a bumpy ride early on.

Does Wine make Linux too loose?

The problems one is likely to encounter with Linux tend to pale by comparison with the security problems one is likely to have using Windows. Unless, that is, you're using Wine.

Indeed, alert blogger fsufitch recently uncovered a situation in which Wine allowed Linux to get infected by a virus targeting Windows.

"Wine emulates Windows well enough to get infected by a Windows virus," fsufitch wrote -- noting, however, that the observed virus didn't work as intended.

"So WINE can get a virus intended for Windows, if you jump through some hoops to help the virus along," wrote AliasMarlowe on Slashdot, where bloggers took quick notice of the news. "Color me unworried."

Then again: "Linux is by no means impervious to infection, but you would need to really put an effort into getting and staying infected," wrote Jeff901 over on Digg. "Things just don't run without your knowledge or control."

And an anecdote: "Using Linux, I'd gotten into the habit of ignoring warnings about all the Web sites I knew spread malware and viruses -- sometimes because I was looking for something, and sometimes just because it's fun to walk through a battlefield with godmode on," JanusTheDoorman began.

"Then, because I needed to run certain software for school, I reinstalled Windows onto my laptop, and absentmindedly continued my usual browsing habits for about a week without so much as spybot to keep me safe," JanusTheDoorman added. "The moment of realization was a bit like what I imagine it'd be like waking up in a doorway, noticing a syringe on the ground next to you, and feeling an itch in your arm..."

Just how big a security concern is Wine? Linux Girl felt it her duty to ask around.

"As long as said virus can't punch through my web browser and install itself, I'm fine with it," Montreal consultant and Slashdot blogger Gerhard Mack told LinuxInsider. "As long as viruses need user intervention to install, we can keep it down to a user education problem."

Indeed, "unless there is an inside job like Wine, it is very difficult to get a virus in GNU/Linux," blogger Robert Pogson agreed. "The GNU/Linux ecosystem is so diverse, hackers cannot build their stuff for all the varieties of drivers, kernels, GUIs, apps and builds to make overflows and such to work. They would rather compromise millions of willing zombies running that other OS -- it's just too easy."

The result is "1000:1 more security against malware with GNU/Linux these days," Pogson noted. "I love it."

"Reading the anguish of users of that other OS struggling for days to cleanse their systems only to reinstall after nothing works brings tears to my eyes," he added. "I just have to tell them about running malware free for eight years without a scanner."

Is the Linux user simply more educated?

A bigger question lies behind the current news, however, and that's, "Why does Linux not get viruses?" Slashdot blogger hairyfeet told LinuxInsider.

"Ultimately, I believe it comes down to the fact that the malware writers know that Linux users are generally more savvy, less likely to fall for tricks, and less likely to fall for the really dumb attacks," hairyfeet said. "Which is why I say, 'Linux users: hope and pray to Linus and RMS you never have a year of a Linux desktop.'"

With mainstream users comes "'the Velma problem,'" hairyfeet explained. "Velma is sweet and nice and always remembers your name and all about your family, but Velma has a darker side: she is what we in the repair biz call ... DUM DUM DUM ... the disaster area."

Specifically, Velma is a user who "followed step-by-step instructions to turn off her antivirus and put the password in a password-protected .zip file," hairyfeet explained. "For what? It was supposed to be a 'happy puppy' screensaver."

Then there's the user who "would run anything -- .exe, .vbs, you name it -- as long as it had the word 'lesbians' in it," hairyfeet added.

"So WINE running a Windows virus is nothing more than a 'stupid Linux trick'... for now," he said. "What will be ultimately more interesting is whether the volunteer nature of Linux will hold up to a tidal wave of stupidity if the year of the Linux desktop ever comes to be."

The minute they find out the "Velma problem" has come to Linux en masse, hairyfeet predicted, "your old friends in the Russian Business network and their friends in Nigeria and China will be happy to cook up 'Happy_Pup.sh' and 'lesbian_video_player.deb' and nicely provide step-by-step instructions that Velma and all her friends will follow to the letter."

Of course, whether those "Velma" users will all be using the same distro is another question entirely, as is whether hackers will be able to do significant damage amid the formidable strength that lies in Linux's diversity.

Then, too, there's the fact that any mass migration to Linux will surely have to involve at least some learning and education on the part of all those new users.

Dare we hope that the Year of the Linux Desktop -- whenever it happens -- may also bring about the Era of the Educated User? Now that would be a milestone in computing history.

Originally published on LinuxInsider

© 2009 ECT News Network. All rights reserved.

© 2009 BetaNews.com. All rights reserved.

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I have upgraded eight systems here, from version 9.04 to version 9.10 without a single glitch. Those upgrades included desktop systems, laptops and a netbook. As the disclaimer in the poll states, people who didn't have problems most likely are not reporting. I know I didn't.

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I upgraded multiple machines without any problems. Ubuntu has done a very good job with their online upgrades in my opinion. I originally switched from Fedora to Ubuntu just for that reason. Upgrades with Fedora were a nightmare even with the DVD. Ubuntu is a simple download that for me has always worked.

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Agreed. I have used Fedora since the Red Hat days. Fedora i tend to associate with bleeding edge software tech. Ubuntu was always the more stabler distro i've used, at least until 9.10. Upgrade went fine (after a 1 GB download) but the OS itself seems less stable than 9.04, which, besides the whole ATI issue, ran very well. I keep getting crash reports in 9.10, even though nothing i'm using is apparently crashing (it's all the background proceses) and i'm finding the wifi is not very stable at times. Bluetooth finally works the way it should with a bt mouse at least!

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Of course the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will only come about when those "Velma" users can use it without having to be educated, and when all distros those "Velmas" are using work pretty much the same.

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I've to admit, I loaded Ubuntu 9.10 on my 5 yr old laptop [Dell m60] and with Windows it was sad; I almost had to euthanize it, but once I loaded Ubuntu - it's a new machine. It boots fast, resumes fast and is surprisingly responsive.

I didn't have any issues with loading the Operating System, loading some drivers and loading FLASH and it's doing fine.

I'm pleased with the results.

Thanks,
LHenryJr.
www.lehsys.com

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I didn't plan to use Ubuntu 9.10 as much as I have, but it is too good to hold back.

The only problem I had is with an old server that didn't want to boot off the SATA. I needed some of my Linux savvy and a reinstall or two, but now it's awesome. It is very cool to have tasksel offer Eucalyptus cloud clusters and nodes as well a a dozen more common server configurations.

It is also great to have CouchDB 0.10, Erlang/OTP 13b and python 2.6 just an apt-get away.

I wasn't planning to upgrade my laptop, but the option popped up, so I let it go and an hour later everything was upgraded and running perfect.

Nothing is impenetrable, but it is much more difficult to run arbitrary code on a Linux box than it is on Windows, and when a crack is found only a small percentage of Linux installs are vulnerable. Diversity is strength.

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Clean installs because upgrades always caused more trouble than they were worth.

Ubuntu 8.04 broke Windows Network browsing and I put up with it and I worked around the problem.

Ubuntu 8.10 sent my hard drive load cycle count rocketing and I put up with it and worked around the problem.

Ubuntu 9.04 broke my laptop Intel graphics card drivers, giving a 50% performance hit and I put up with it and worked around the problem.

Ubuntu 9.10 removed the support for my 3g mobile broadband dongle. This time, I no longer put up with it, made excuses for it or worked around the problem. I went and bought Windows 7.

Bye bye Ubuntu. I've got fed up of you breaking things because of poor quality control and the "must release every 6 months" mantra.

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You may want to stay with Ubuntu LST (Long Term Support) which is release every 2 years. Or go with Debian stable release. Ubuntu 6 months release cycle is to align with Gnome release cycle. So either the user decides to try the new stuffs and may get some stability issues or stay with stable versions and wait longer time in between.

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One LTS release was responsible for a major issue in a Windows dominant world. Ubuntu is nothing more than a mess nowadays. Debian stable looks far more dependable but sadly many of the good things I found in Ubuntu are missing from it and other distros and honestly I've got to the point where I just can't be bothered wasting any more time on it. I'll drop back in from time to time with a virtual machine trial but that's about it.

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This title is very misleading. Millions of people use Ubuntu. There are many people who upgrade without problems. What some people have experienced is not what everyone has experienced.

I have been using Ubuntu for more than a year. I have not had upgrade problems and Ubuntu has been working great for me on my PC and Laptop. Consequently, I did not have to go to the Ubuntu Forums to complain. This is especially so when these people who complain happen to work for a particular company / have stock in it or are 'stakeholders'.

Most people just carry on with their work when the Upgrade goes well. As it is recorded in the Bible, Jesus healed 10 lepers, only one of them returned to thank Jesus. I guess it is only human to forget to thank. However, we tend to complain a lot when things go wrong.

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Funny how that excuse never seems acceptable for Windows.

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In the new 9.10, I like very much the GUI, Ubuntu One (free 2GB cloud base storage & sync) and the Ubuntu Software Store.

Xubuntu works flawlessly. As for Ubuntu, I am rather on the unluckly side. I have experienced some instabilities. One of the machines even freezes randomly for no apparent reason. I think it's hardware related. Because the issues I got on two Ubuntu machines are totally different. I would suggest to wait a few more weeks, hoping there will be fixes in system updates.

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I keep hearing people say that doing a clean install(ation) is better but in the "How did your upgrade/install go?" thread on the Ubuntu forums, there isn't much difference between the two.

I've been installing Ubuntu since 7.04 (2007, April) and it had become increasingly worse every 6 months when it was released. The 9.10 release went smoothly and found my Broadcom-based WiFi card and nVidia graphics card and turned on the correct proprietary drivers without help.

It even knew what to do with my tethered phone and made the 3G connection, but the browser couldn't make use of it for whatever reason. (That's better than Apple's Snow Leopard did. It actually became worse than Leopard.) The Year of the Linux Desktop? Not for people who need special software or games but for netbooks, e-mail, web browsing, and writing office letters? It's perfect.

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I've known about some problems upgrading from one thoroughly customized ubuntu version to the next, so I didn't want to risk problems. Besides, it is always good to do a clean install, since you re-evaluate the 'crap' you've installed earlier.

I liked karmic and its new form, but I had/have some very annoying problems.
Couldn't get grub2 to work(apparently I know to much about the last version).
Couldn't find the manager to configuring startup services I loved in Jaunty.
I'm pissed that I it is not offered to remember authorization for common actions, like mounting other partitions or changing my cpu freq though an applet.

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@SnakerDLK:

I would think, having customised a lot, you would want to keep all that.

It's good that they're moving away from long lost GRUB but is the new one better or just more compliant? I almost removed everything and started fresh with FreeBSD 7.2 but for GRUB since it doesn't play nice with the *BSDs.

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