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Uh-oh, Blu-Ray: Sony looks to streaming movies

By Tim Conneally, BetaNews

June 26, 2008, 12:21 PM

Sony's plans for the near future, which company chief executives discussed today in Tokyo, include streaming video for both the Bravia line of TVs and the PS3. Looks like the game console could portend the future of media after all.

According to Kazuo Hirai, head of Sony's video game unit, the PlayStation 3 will be getting a movie download service before the end of the summer in the United States, with Japanese and European markets shortly thereafter. Rollout dates, video quality, and payment schemata were not discussed, but more information is expected from the company in July.

Sony also has plans to deliver streaming movies and television to broadband-connected Bravia TVs in the fall, according to CEO Howard Stringer. The service's inaugural film will be the Sony Pictures film "Hancock."

This could portend bad things for Blu-ray, a format that more and more analysts expect to represent a sort of swan song for hard-copy media. Movie rental company Netflix has already moved into the streaming on demand realm, where products like AppleTV, Vudu, and dozens more already reside.

Japanese research firm BCN recently showed the PS3 to be the best-selling Blu-ray player on the world market. If Sony shifts emphasis away from the PS3's strength as a Blu-ray player and toward its streaming media capabilities, the still-developing sales momentum of Blu-ray media would no doubt be impeded.

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By Banquo

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 1:26 PM

I think it's interesting how once the format war ended so did the hype. It was every single day something about HD DVD this or Blu-Ray that, and now...meh. Aside from the videophiles I don't think anyone really cares, just like with Laserdisc. It may end up lasting longer but it's still just a niche product.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jun 29, 2008 - 11:04 PM

I'm sure it will last a little longer than Laserdisc as it has many more uses and applications than LD had, but ultimately I agree that it will never rise above niche status.

DVD will be remembered as the last great physical media champion for video. I firmly believe that the rate technology is advancing these days will prevent Blu-ray from ever getting the chance to dethrone DVD.

Score: 0

By AntiochMedia

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 12:11 PM

Why is this article trying to state that Sony is moving in any particular direction? They are staying relevant by being competitive in both markets. Streaming Video is not going to match the quality of Blu-Ray, so it's not even worth publishing these theories.

Articles like this are what keep BetaNews so popular - if you notice the discussions trailing from this article, there are people criticising the article's assessment, people supporting it and throwing it in other people's faces, mentions of the Wii and XBox -- all sorts of off topic responses.

So is this good? That a sensationalist article is written to encourage heated arguments to support more ad impressions and more visits - or is it bad because that lowers the overall perspective of BN to those who don't post?

There's no link to Sony's press release in the article, which might have been a nice addition for those who are too lazy to hunt out the source material before commenting.

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:05 PM

Wrong.

It will surpass Bloray. look at the companies involved in streaming media / VOD and look at what they are offering. Sony is just jumping on the bandwagon

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 12:29 PM

Both of you are wrong.

First, it is not a media versus download competition. They COMPLEMENT each other! PS3 was intended to support BOTH delivery vectors from the start - although Sony is now just getting around to building the functionality into the consoles! Oh....gee, we sure know the platform!

And as far as downloads 'surpassing' 1080p? In your dreams. Various compression schemas are bing pursued not in an attempt to make downloads more easily accommodated, and no broadcast service will be employing 1080p. So now you are proposing a higher resolution download standard? LOL! To play on what????

No one delivery vector will dominate in the short term, simply because of the mix of network capabilities that predominate in the larger market!

But not to worry - while a few here get their panties in a wad over whether downloads or hard media will dominate - Sony (and you guys) has an even larger problem! To date they have failed to present a compelling reason to abandon standard upscaled DVDs for an over priced system and media.

Both of you need to do a bit more research and leave your emotional bias at the door.

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 1:47 PM

If you think we are going into the future in disk based media your wrong. VOD is the future, and if you read my previous posts on other topics you would see that i am a big supporter of upscaling.

You will have to explain how they are supposed to complement each other when they are in competion. If you can choose whether to watch the movie on disk or on demand the funds don't get distributed to both.

Bloray's saving grace is the pos3 you don't see an external driver for the 360 as microsoft has made it clear that they have chosen to follow streaming media.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 2:37 PM

"You will have to explain how they are supposed to complement each other when they are in competion."

Amazing...

They offer complementary forms of distribution.
If you are in an area where high speed wide bandwidth distribution networks exist, you just might be able to download. On the other hand, the vast majority of the country lacks this service and will for the foreseeable future.

So, since you are so knowledgeable, you might want to explain to all of us how they will download the same large file in a reasonable time frame? Gee, you mean they can't? Oh, well then they just might be a target market for hard copy distribution.

Its always nice when folks such as yourself make asinine assumptions about the market as if it were a monolithic homogeneous structure without variation as to its nature and capacity.

Unfortunately, you are out of touch with reality fanboy.

HD-DVD failed in large measure precisely because MS failed to bundle an HD-DVD player with each XBox360! This would have provided them with a strategic advantage early on as they were first to market and squandered their early market lead and thus this prevented them from leveraging their installed base that ultimately won the format war for Sony precisely because each of the PS3's had a player. And Sony intended for each player to be able to be network attached from the onset - except that they were late to implement their full capacity players until version 2.

Oh, and you also seem to be confused as to what complementary means. It does NOT mean that you have to both download AND buy a hard copy, you dufus! It means that they provide a complement to one another. The two vectors sum to 100%. Thus product delivery can be made via EITHER vector depending upon the nature of the local system capabilities.

But to confound you even further, I will bet that downloadable "HD" content will be dominated by LESS than 1080p material. A niche product is not going to drive the majority market that finds no compelling need to buy into Blu-Ray.

Score: 0

By cap737

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:57 PM

you're all wrong! the band WILL MAKE IT!!!

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:38 PM

The Band broke up in 1977.

Score: 0

By Dark_Helmet

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 12:25 PM

except that the main and by FAR most important component of of streaming media/VOD side of the coin...the service providers...just plain don't have the ability to let this happen....

with ISP's all over the place SERIOUSLY contemplating download caps...how on earth are we going to be able to stream the 20+ GB's of Information that is held on the average Blu-ray or HD-DVD??...

the day when cable companies offer uncompressed 1080p picture, with 5.1/7.1 Channel HD-Audio to just MATCH the quality of HD-DVD of Blu-ray is YEARS off....

and the day when ISP's uncork the bandwidth to allow those same specs to be had in a reasonable amount of time, for a reasonable price, in the MAJORITY of service areas is probably even further off...

AntiochMedia: Danno is still upset that Toshiba gave up on HD-DVD...don't let him get to you too much...

Score: 0

By Dark_Helmet

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 11:54 AM

The problem is that Sony is not shifting anything away from Blu-ray...this is a feature that has been planned since day one for the Playstation store along with BD...this is just so stupid....not to mention everyone acts like Sony=Blu-ray...when that is far from the case...

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:23 PM

The point of this article is that they are putting more focus on the fact that they are moving to provide this service after they said that they really wouldn't focus on this and just focus on bloray.

Score: 0

By Dark_Helmet

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:26 PM

you show me where Sony has EVER stated they woudln't jave a digital delivery system with the PS3...and were only going to focus on Blu-ray...

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 1:52 PM

That was their focus from day one. When your registering your unsername on the pos3 network the don't have anything regarding streaming content. Whereas there is a choice for bloray.

When the format war ended Microsoft was signing deals with Disney etc for streaming content and Sony was still on its knees hoping that an external drive would be offered to complement the 360.

Score: 0

By Dark_Helmet

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 9:59 AM

leave it to BetaNews to try and knock Blu-ray once again...

this place still smells of the Soviet Union...

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:04 PM

I don't think its BN knocking them moreso Sony's claim that VOD is not the wave of the future and Bloray is and now all of a sudden they realize that VOD is the new future and they are hopping on the band wagon.

Score: 0

By Dark_Helmet

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:27 PM

this has been a plan for the Playstation store since DAY ONE!....lol...since the PS3 launch Sony has planned a movie/tv marketplace for the PS3...

Score: 0

By bobthegoat2001

edited Jun 29, 2008 - 4:57 PM

"this has been a plan for the Playstation store since DAY ONE of the announcement of HD movie and TV show downloads on Xbox Live!"

There, finished it for you.

Score: 0

By Danno

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 1:49 PM

oh really then why has it taken soo long to implement?
Who have they been signing streaming video agreements with?

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:43 PM

You are a fool.

Sony's original plan, which is still just being implemented this fall for what was envisioned to be their original PS3 include network attached capabilities. What is called Profile 2 is what they intended to be their original full configuration.

Why the delay? How about cost? They have been selling the machines at a loss from day one.

You might want to become a bit more familiar with history and a little less enamored with your conspiratorial imaginings.

Score: 0

By yountmj

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 2:34 AM

"Why the delay? How about cost? They have been selling the machines at a loss from day one."

That has nothing to do with it. With the exception of the gradual lobotomizing of the PS3's gaming hardware since launch, the hardware required for Blu-ray Profile 2.0 functionality has always been the same for each and every console. Profile 2.0 compliance added nothing to the cost of the hardware, above and beyond what was already present since day one.

I suppose all those extra ones and zeros in the firmware really cut into their revenue, huh?

Profile 2.0 was "delayed" because it simply was not ready, plain and simple. I don't believe it was delayed at all... they were most likely right on schedule. However, Toshiba lit a fire under the BDA's collective asses and forced them to release under-spec'd players to gain market awareness and compete until they were ready with their full-featured players. If not for HD-DVD, we probably would not have even seen consumer BD players until Profile 2.0 was a reality anyway (which of course, there would have been no need to call it Profile 2.0 then).

Score: 0

By Setian^Stalker

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:21 AM

And while we are at it DAM sony for discussing with the media their plans. Dont stop with BN, sony gave every media outlet the same story

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:14 AM

I guess that most media places are too then since they have posted the same story.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:22 AM

I love how so many are still debating the technical aspects of Blu-Ray, the PS3 ets., but utterly FAIL to appreciate the BUSINESS aspects.

And for that, you might want to revel in the mess Sony has on their hands! Sure they won! LOL! I believe its called a Pyrrhic Victory!

Sony has lost over $3 billion on the PS3
Jun 26, 2008

Think you paid too much for your Playstation 3? Don't expect any sympathy from Sony.

In the company's fiscal 2008 annual report, Sony revealed that they've now lost roughly $3.3 billion (that's billion with a B) on the Playstation 3 since its launch. That breaks down to $2.16 billion in 2007, followed by a notably smaller but equally daunting $1.16 billion loss in 2008.

The reason? Pricing the console below its production cost. That's right - that hefty $599 you paid for the PS3 back when it first launched was significantly cheaper than the cost of producing it in the first place, and while the retail price has come down some, the losses keep piling up.

Investors have reason to sweat. In a statement, Sony claimed "the large-scale investment required during the development and introductory period of a new gaming platform may not be fully recovered." They went on to note that they've invested a great deal of money into R&D for the console, a sum they might not be able to recoup if the PS3 "fails to achieve such favorable market penetration."

Sony fanboys should take heart, however. Losing money on hardware is relatively common in the video game biz, as companies routinely lower prices to sell more units and thus stimulate software sales. Sony's game division saw a 26% sales spike last quarter, a trend they expect will continue on the strength of strong exclusives like the recently released Metal Gear Solid 4 and the upcoming sequel Resistance 2.

But will it be enough?

http://videogames.yahoo....iew_feature?eid=1223467

The fanboys will have fun with this! IF they can be bothered with the facts!

Score: 0

By marrix

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 9:59 AM

Foxy,
Arguably your most erudite post "Pyrrhic Victory", is a litotes!
The business models/returns you articulated are consolidation of the facts ignored by most.
Me I'm a man of simple means, have no interest whatsoever in Blo Ray, quite happy with standard DVD, on a 47"LG with all the bells & whistles, do not connect with HDMI, 'cos it does not like my copied DVD's (legitimate purchases).
Ah, but my audio is something else! A pair of Halcro DM88's with Halcro DM10 is pre-amp, only have 3 input devices, being a Meridian 800 Universal player, a Goldmund standard DVD player, and an el cheapo LG DVD player (this thing will play anything you throw in it).
And, perhaps the piece de resistance is my choice of speakers. Focul JMlabs Grand Utopia BE's"
However, now that I've skited, point I'm trying to make is that from an earlier age (perhaps), refuse to be bedazzled emerging technology in many respects.
Been watching DaveBG, and his supporters for some time now, and they contribute misinformation, diversions & fluff.
This was a very fine ovservation!

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 2:47 AM

I'd love to see your exclamation point to period ratio go down to at least 3:1.

...not including quotes of course. Seriously, man. Is slamming Blu-Ray technology and Sony that thrilling to you?

Score: 0

By siryak

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 1:45 PM

Typical...He didn't have anything to say, so he decided to pick on your number of exclamation points lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 3:38 AM

"...not including quotes of course. Seriously, man. Is slamming Blu-Ray technology and Sony that thrilling to you?"

Poor baby.....

If you bothered to read the article, it addresses the business aspects of the technology.

Unlike ANYTHING that you have posted.

Evidently you are a BR fan and simply can't stand ( nor deal with) economic facts that conflict with your loyalty for the platform.

Of course, in your posts you simply whine about exclamation points that I use in a ENGLIGH LANGUAGE convention where they add emphasis, and I couldn't care less about your adolescent texting conventions.

Go lay on the ground and kick and scream somewhere else.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 1:17 PM

lol... keep going. Show everyone how loose your grip on reality is. Never once did I say anything about Blu-ray or Sony; supporting or non-supporting.

If you bothered to read the article, it addresses the business aspects of the technology.

Unlike ANYTHING that you have posted.

Sure. Whatever, man. Keep acting like you know everything. You're really impressing everyone.

Of course, in your posts you simply whine about exclamation points that I use in a ENGLIGH LANGUAGE convention where they add emphasis...

You know, if you want to stand up for one "English language convention," you might want to consider following at least a few of the others. For example: complete sentences.

Relax, ok? I was just pointing out the fact that you like to use exclamation points a lot. Care to disagree? I think it's pretty funny that you get so excited over something so benign and far-removed from your real life. That may just be an assumption on my part, but I hope I'm right.

Is making someone else hate Sony as much as you do really that important to you?

By the way, I'm not adolescent, but keep insulting me. It's fun to watch.

Score: 0

By charlespaugh

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 9:49 PM

I still believe that the Blu-Ray format is a bad idea. Sony could not be trusted to do the ethical thing when it came to media distribution as proven with malware/spyware installed on music and DVD discs distributed by the company. I don't trust Sony to do the ethical thing when it comes to Blu-Ray licensing either.

Score: 0

By kholdstare

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 5:26 PM

guys don't worry about the xbox360 fanboys. they will be back on the net in another week complaining about how there 360's got the red ring of death and have to have there 4th xbox from microsoft replaced LOL

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 8:44 PM

I would rather have a console fail and have it paid for by the maker unlike the people that have been complaining about their PS3's blu ray drive passing away and having to give Sony 150 bones to fix it. Then there is the shipping. Oh how typical of Sony.

Score: 0

By testman

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:40 AM

Yeah that's so unlike the 360 breaking every year, conveniently out of warranty, meaning it needs replacing by another purchase, AGAIN. Oh how typical of Microsoft, eh?

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:13 PM

Nope they extended the warranty so not to worry. Sony had to be taken to court for their problems with the PS2. Maybe you forgot about that one. Then there is the PS3's that have the same problem optical drives failing. Looks like they have not learned a thing. Funny how I have never had to pay for a repair and never had to buy a new system so once again you are wrong.

Score: 0

By schivelrybrn

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:22 PM

Streaming Video.... Great!!
But what about all the ISP's that are implementing bandwidth caps???

Score: 0

By imafurby

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 9:24 AM

Call it an electronic condom that's there for your protection.

Score: 0

By God Dammit

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 2:59 PM

Hopefully this time the streaming movies will be in 1080p with Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio sound. Otherwise Blu-Ray won't go away anytime soon. Most people who own a Blu-Ray player have a surround system with HDMI that supports the new audio formats either by internal decoding in the Blu-Ray player or by bitstreaming to the receiver.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 3:36 AM

Most people who own blu-ray players are PS3 owners, and the majority of them don't even own HD sets never mind surround sound systems to go along with it
it's scary how many people use composite / s-video.
this is not a knock at PS3 owners, the same goes for xbox 360

Score: 0

By wincement

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:51 AM

I find your s/n extremely offensive. I'm surprised your posts are ignored by the mods considering foul language isn't allowed in comments.

Foul language and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 3:35 AM

whats so offensive about his name?
id hardly consider "dammit" foul language.

unless you are upset that he added god to it.

if that's the case relax, there is no god so its no big deal.

Score: 0

By wincement

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 1:08 PM

I hope you don't procreate.

Score: 0

By Adrian79

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 9:07 AM

ahhh, a George Carlin tribute comment? :-)

lol

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 8:53 AM

You spell it like this God. There are many more that believe then don't so you are vastly outnumbered.

Score: 0

By plilshun

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:26 AM

People that believe in God are vastly retarded.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:37 AM

What ever you say. Like I said you the minority in that belief. Go tell a Muslim that he is retard for his beliefs and see how far that gets you.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

edited Jun 28, 2008 - 8:19 AM

herm what religion to chose, its so damn hard to pick as there are so many and they all claim to be right with zero proof.

I know I should blindly follow christianity as that's what I was brought up with but even then I have a bunch of sub regions to pick from .. catholic, protestant, orthodox

or i could mix things up and go mormon muslim(shiites, sunni), hindu, buddhist, sikhs, jews etc.

who am I kidding, they are all jokes

I think ill stick with science and reality instead of a magical fairy

EDIT: as for telling a muslim that his beliefs are a silly been there done that, religion arguments are quite common.

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 9:53 PM

You really need to proof read before you post. I am far the expert but some of that was very hard to read.

I would rather live a life with religion and be wrong then live a bad life and be wrong.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

edited Jun 28, 2008 - 8:28 AM

oh no! spelling errors
way to derail.

point is, you are wasting your only life with religion when you could be trying to find real answers while you have the time.

read the old testament sometime. in that story book hes one of most evil beings you could imagine. do you really want to "follow" a vengeful, jealous god like him?

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 4:01 PM

You go ahead and believe what you want and so will I. The numbers speak for themselves you are the minority.

Score: 0

By plilshun

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:52 AM

What I would like to know is what are you insinuating about muslims...

Score: 0

By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:16 PM

Can't figure it our huh. Didn't get all bent and want to take care a cartoonist in Denmark. All those retards as you call them don't take comments like yours very well. Anyway way to off topic so I'm done.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 7:34 PM

yea because all muslims are extremist.

silly christian

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 1:51 AM

"HDMI-capable surround systems?"

For the most part HDMI Audio is a moot issue!
Who gives a flip about HDMI audio?

In the scheme of things, it is perhaps the least significant advance in many years.

Especially as so many of the gadget gurus are the same folks running about eschewing hi-fi sources for low-fi MP3 and iPod crap!

Not to mention that movie audio is among the least 'significant' audio source available - well, unless you really consider special FX and explosions critical audio listening! ROFLMAO!

But I'm sure you will maintain that you can hear the sound of a planet of star exploding in a much more accurate manner. LOL!

The primary use for HDMI has been, and will continue to be video. And the HD TV Monitors are primarily HDMI video capable. HDMI Audio is an afterthought at best - with few folks even having the new audio capability, few sources providing it, and with many very acceptable existing audio options readily available.

As if this is the need! Producing Blu-Ray players and media in a competitive manner financially is the critical factor, not adding more cost and marginal technical capabilities to al already marginalized technology that offers little if no compelling reason to buy compared to a $60 upscaling DVD player and %5-10 DVD media with a MUCH larger assortment of titles.

Your focus is a fundamental example of how BR has totally missed the market as the focus totally ignores the real world factors affecting the market.

Score: 0

By yountmj

edited Jun 28, 2008 - 4:26 AM

"Not to mention that movie audio is among the least 'significant' audio source available"

Really? At least the movie industry follows some semblance of a standard with regards to audio as opposed to the music industry, where mixing and mastering engineers have been systematically destroying the fidelity and dynamics of artists' works for over a decade. Ridiculous amounts of compression and brick wall limiting... "louder is better" my ass. For every rare gem of a music CD that hasn't been transformed into a giant wall of white noise (essentially the equivalent of trying to read a book printed in ALL CAPS), there are probably a dozen movie soundtracks that will make a home theater surround system really shine.

"The primary use for HDMI has been, and will continue to be video."

LOL... Now you're just confusing HDMI with DVI.

"HDMI Audio is an afterthought at best"

Right... the ability to carry 8 channels of uncompressed 192kHz / 24-bit audio... true high-resolution. Name any other consumer-grade audio transport that can carry that much audio data by itself, let alone in addition to video.

Yeah... they definitely should have put more thought into that one. *laughs*

24-bit audio has a dynamic range of 144 dB, versus 96 dB for 16-bit audio. It's not meant to showcase the finer aspects of loud explosions and effects, "Professor". The increased dynamic range of 24-bit audio adds extra resolution and detail to more accurately reproduce audio at much lower volumes more than anything 16-bit audio can handle. Ambient noise and soft dialog will benefit from 24-bit much more than loud explosions ever will.

The only thing HDMI added for video was HDCP... that means DRM, since you do not seem to be as informed as you claim.

High-Definition is the whole package (your "scheme of things", as it were). It never applied simply to just video, but to audio as well... at least it should.

If the high-resolution audio that HDMI is capable of transporting is as inconsequential as you suggest, and the relatively low-fidelity compressed audio that is quickly becoming so widely popular is so appalling, what exactly do you not b**** and moan about? Some people such as myself prefer to maintain a balanced collection of hi-fi for quality listening sessions and so-called lo-fi for convenience and portability whenever applicable.

Score: 0

By God Dammit

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:08 AM

HDMI was not designed primarily for video. It was designed to reduce the amount of cables needed to connect audio AND video components together. Instead of having three video cables (component), and an optical or coax digital audio cable for your DVD player and cable/satellite box you just have one HDMI cable for each to connect to the receiver and a third HDMI cable from the receiver to your TV.

As for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, the difference in audio quality is huge over lossy audio like Dolby Digital and 768Kbps DTS. On the Radio City Dave Matthew Band Blu-Ray disc the 24-bit 96KHz Dolby TrueHD soundtrack sounds totally different than the regular 640Kbps Dolby Digital soundtrack. One audio track (Dolby Digital) sounds like a music CD stretched into 5 channels while the other audio track (Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) sounds like being in the same room as the performer. It's the same story when comparing the Legends of Jazz Blu-Ray disc with the standard DVD version.

I suppose you've never heard the new audio formats on a properly set up surround system so you wouldn't know about the huge difference between, say, Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital anyways.

Score: 0

By jeffreybt

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 3:40 AM

while it's nice to have A/V in one cable the main reason HDMI was pushed was for copy protection

Video & Audio w/ HDCP

Score: 0

By foxfyre

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 7:03 AM

Almost...

AACS is used in conjunction with HDCP on computers, with DVI and now DisplayPort as the new interface standard.

AACS is used with consumer video with HDMI being the interface of spec.

Score: 0

By foxfyre

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 3:31 AM

On a properly set up surround sound system huh?

So, tell us what the perspective of the listener is relative to the source!

Movie soundtracks are not, nor were they ever set up for true surround. No one want you turning around from the screen to respond to truly localized sound originating from behind you! DUH! The primary focus is ALWAYS to the front - where your visual focus remains!

One engineer puts you in the middle of the stage (eg Mickey Hart on the remix of Workingman's Dead and American Beauty), and others mix the soundtrack from the point of view of creatively putting instruments in logically incongruous locations for oh so trendy FX. The fact is, there is no 'official' reference.

I've heard and been involved with the production of far more professionally produced audio than you have a clue regarding.

And HDMI was NOT simply a manner for consolidating the number of cable runs. although tfor the MAJORITY of existing systems, that is all it does - which was exactly my point - that you utterly missed in your rant. And like I give a s*** about the Dave Matthews band - a group that proves that folks with speech impediments and fail to enunciate even the most basic of words can record too. Yeah, I bet higher resolution audio makes a huge difference.

And I suspect you haven't a clue regarding the recent AES papers delineating the limits of the audibility of higher resolution recordings. But why explain such issues as psychoacoustics to one who is caught up with the nonsensical mine is larger than yours game.

And 'properly' setting up a surround system! LOL! After you learn the proper uses of TEF. EASERA, SMAART, etc, come back and talk. Or perhaps better yet, try listening.

If only the future of audio was Blu-Ray. LOL! DVD-Audio and SACD couldn't even create an compelling reason to buy them - as if folks are going to pay literally 2-3 times as much for a BR system used soley for audio.

Hell, BR can't even create a compelling reason for the market to move to a format that costs 7-10 times the cost of an upscaling DVD player with media costs ranging from 5-7 times as much!

In your dreams.

Score: 0

By God Dammit

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 5:24 AM

"Movie soundtracks are not, nor were they ever set up for true surround. No one want you turning around from the screen to respond to truly localized sound originating from behind you! DUH! The primary focus is ALWAYS to the front - where your visual focus remains!"

This is a very common mistake that most movie studios make. The House of Flying Daggers Blu-Ray disc is among the first that fixes this problem. It's uncompressed PCM soundtrack has plenty of localized sound from the rear speakers and no I don't have the rear surround volume cranked up high. All five speakers and the subwoofer in my setup are calibrated with a SPL to 75db. The new audio formats are intended to make audio sound true to life. Music and movies are two very different types of material. Music performances should always be focused in front of the listener. Movies should be in true surround like it would sound in real life.

Also, I never said Blu-Ray should be used solely for audio. Blu-Ray and HDMI are designed to improve audio quality just as much as they were designed to improve video quality.

In terms of software the difference between Blu-Ray and DVD's is just as big as the difference between VHS and DVD.

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By Niro

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:15 AM

Wow I think this may be the first time we actually agree...!

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By yountmj

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:28 AM

"Most people who own a Blu-Ray player have a surround system with HDMI that supports the new audio formats either by internal decoding in the Blu-Ray player or by bitstreaming to the receiver."

That's a pretty bold claim, especially considering that the vast majority of people who watch Blu-ray movies do so on a PlayStation 3. Are you suggesting that most of those people have HDMI-capable surround systems? Most people that I know still attach their game consoles directly to a 27" CRT television (or similar). I've found that most people that actually have a surround sound system do not even know how to arrange and calibrate the speakers properly.

Stand-alone Blu-ray console owners on the other hand... that's probably a different story. :)

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By jeffreybt

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 3:42 AM

Indeed you are correct, most people with PS3 do not use it on a HD setup.

you are correct again on the stand alone player, people willing to put that kind of money out for movies have a proper setup to use it with.

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By God Dammit

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:14 AM

Most people that are buying the PS 3 are getting it because of the fact that games are in high definition. Since some of the newest PS 3 games actually use the new surround formats there's no reason not to have an HDMI audio capable surround system. When most Blu-Ray movies are downscaled to 480i/p on a CRT TV the menu's are so small the text isn't even legible unless your nose is touching the TV screen.

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By Niro

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:29 AM

"Since some of the newest PS 3 games actually use the new surround formats there's no reason not to have an HDMI audio capable surround system."

Unless somewhere somehow, people consider money a reason not to purchase a surround system (especially one that will show off the difference between HD audio and compressed surround).

But then again..everybody has all the money in the world to spend on a good surround system so it's really not a reason at all right.

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By God Dammit

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 5:03 AM

There are many home theater in a box systems with HDMI audio support that cost well under $500. Some even have fully automatic setup with room/speaker EQ.

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By lvthunder

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:49 PM

That's not going to happen. No one is going to want to download 25-30GB of data for one movie. Your ISP would shut you down before you got to the third movie. Does the Apple HD movies even do Dolby Digital?

Also what about all those people and places where good high speed internet. I'm building a cabin in Utah where the only thing available is DSL and I doubt that's going to be fast enough to stream anything.

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By God Dammit

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:21 AM

No, the Apple movies don't do Dolby Digital and this is why Apple TV isn't worth the money. You're better using VOD on cable or satellite which use 1080i instead of 720p.

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By Niro

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:30 PM

Nobody said BR is going away...but it's not going to be attractive enough to the mass market to be "successfull". Most consumers don't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p, and most consumer don't hear the difference between Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital...not to mention most consumers don't have equipment good enough to actually show off the differences.

BR is just one of those things that will always have a fairly small niche market but is "too much" for the mass market...while the streaming movies will have the mass market appeal, and eventually the quality to match that smaller niche market.

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By dracodos

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 10:33 PM

I agree look at DVD Audio and Super Audio CD. That was supposed to replace the CD and never did. To this day they both reside in a niche market which is getting smaller by the year.

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By God Dammit

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 2:19 AM

With DVD-Audio and SACD's most music studios simply took 2-channel CD quality recordings, upsampled them to 24-bit 96KHz audio quality and stretched the 2-channel audio across 5 speakers. With Blu-Ray music discs the movie studios recorded the audio from a live performance straight to high quality multi channel PCM and simply compressed the audio with lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio.

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By yountmj

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 2:32 PM

Sorry, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with that one.

Any recording studio in their right mind would (or should) never up-sample and mass duplicate a CD-quality recording. They would duplicate from a studio master, which is of a much higher fidelity and resolution than 16-bit / 44.1 kHz CD.

If it's an analog master, it's simply a matter of an A/D conversion straight to 24-bit and whatever sample rate they prefer. If it's a digital master, it's more than likely already at least 24-bit / 96-192 kHz.

But yes, unfortunately there's not much that can be done about those pseudo-surround releases that only previously existed as a 2-channel master. Depending on the mixing engineer, I will almost always prefer the 2-channel high-res tracks on most DVD-Audio discs of older releases.

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By Setian^Stalker

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 3:22 AM

If I purchased media that was upsampled I would be taking it back. Maybe America is different but the Asian market didn’t have this dodgy business going on.
DVD-A and SACD both offered excellent quality without studios *upsampling* but suffered limited releases(for good reason). SACD players offer an upsampling ability, maybe that is what you are referring to?

Sounds like the whole Maverick with Redbook argument from years ago again :(
Hi-res music has always been a niche market

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By God Dammit

posted Jun 28, 2008 - 5:00 AM

If a multichannel music recording were really high resolution there would be no reason to have the exact same audio coming out of all five speakers.

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By Setian^Stalker

posted Jul 1, 2008 - 6:45 AM

Yep that confirms you are talking about the upsampling ability the players offer. Try turning that off and chuck in a sacd :)

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By Cairobeta

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 7:17 PM

I really think it's going to be the other way around.

Look at the music market right now. After 7 years of the iPod, readily available bandwith everywhere that is more than capable of streaming music, and the option to purchase a song instead of an album, CDs STILL sell a lot more than download able music. Why? Well it's because MP3 players/computers aren't that easy work with for the mass market.

That's the one important difference right now that everyone seems to forget with optical disc technology. You just stick in the disc and it's plays automatically.

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By preinterpost

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 3:58 PM

To go away I would have to arrive first ;-)

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By Niro

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 4:09 PM

Also very true...:)

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By Danno

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 12:37 PM

woW!!
who called it!? (a number of people here)
Coming soon to laser disk shelves.. Bloray!

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By yountmj

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 1:50 PM

Yep, that was pretty much the prediction back in January (and even before):

http://www.betanews.com/...y_really_won/1200172289

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By pridewalker

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 10:40 PM

Off topic, but it's nice to see you back here bud...

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By yountmj

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:35 AM

Thanks, and likewise. I haven't seen you nearly as much here recently.

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By dlab21

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 1:07 PM

yep just like all the people here that KNEW that hd-dvd would destroy blu-ray.
Keep calling it. No one is listening.

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By Setian^Stalker

edited Jun 26, 2008 - 9:10 PM

A lot of hd-dvd supporter’s here didn’t so much preach how it would destroy blu-ray here. Much of that time was spent actually pulling up the blu-ray supporters who speculated absolute rubbish and making up fairy stories.
Notice how those *liars* often dissapeared after they hit some sort of quota.
The bulls*** meter still hasn’t recovered since those days :(

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By Sparxx2k7

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 1:49 PM

How exactly is that an HD-DVD win? Nowhere in that article did it mention HD-DVD.
I think you better re-read that article again.
Not to mention, the article is explaining the EXPANSION of the capabilities of the PS3, not the demise of Blu-Ray. If you want extended or enhanced features of a Blu-Ray player, then buy a Blu-Ray player. The PS3 is a revolutionary unit and covers the basics with Blu-Ray capabilities
I admit, it is pretty sweet to have your console and player all in one unit, but just because Sony is choosing to expand upon other aspects of the console does not mean that Blu-Ray is dead - far from it.

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By yountmj

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 2:45 PM

Perhaps you need to re-read his post?

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By dlab21

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 2:38 PM

... it was sarcasm?

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By Niro

edited Jun 26, 2008 - 2:01 PM

I think it's funny that Blu-Ray fanatics are SO fanatical that they start bashing themselves because they lack reading comprehension skills:)

Or do I have it wrong...they're just so paranoid that they just try to justify BR even to other BR supporters??

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By erock

edited Jun 26, 2008 - 2:37 PM

almost as paronoid as you 360 fanboys, with nothing left but your pathetic 8gb old xbox dvd left now. wow you guys are so screwed. all i care about is the blu-ray disks hold up to 50gb for ps3 games, to bad micro$oft didnt utilize the hd-dvd for games. so now what for you? 3 outdated 3.2 processors. haha screwed!!

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By yountmj

edited Jun 27, 2008 - 12:55 AM

...and what's left for your console, with a severely outdated GPU that I stopped using in my PC 2½ years ago?

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By SGD

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 4:09 PM

Hey dip stick didn't the 360 launch before HD or blo ray came to market. Makes it kind of difficult to included something that didn't exist yet. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that you need a 50 gig disk for games. Then again you do need it for the repeated files multiple times on the disk because blo is so friggin slow. Nice try troll. You might want to try using the shift key for other uses then making a $ sign, that was so cool.

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By erock

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 4:46 PM

hey fkface keep taking it up your a** with m$ di@k coming out of your mouth you fking FAQ
SGD? suck good di@k is my guess you piece of sh!t keep telling yourself 8gb is enough for games with you're weak-ass "texture pop-ins. and 1-4 fail rate. dont call me a troll you m$ di@k sucker.

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By bobthegoat2001

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 1:24 AM

Hahaha, that was pretty funny.

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By yountmj

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 12:50 AM

Looks like someone forgot to put Net Nanny on the family PC.

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By siryak

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 9:53 PM

How mature...

This is what happens when you let the kiddies use "da intranets!"

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By SGD

posted Jun 26, 2008 - 8:48 PM

WOW what an educated response are you 10?

You are a troll since you make comments about things not in the article for the sole purpose of starting a pissing match. That makes you a troll. Try and grow up a little too.

I like the way you don't respond to a thing that I said I am guessing because you can't. Truth must hurt.

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By erock

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 9:34 AM

like the truth that you are a co#ksucker too? i wonder if thats you talking or the di@k coming out of your mouth from micro$oft peace fool.

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By SGD

posted Jun 27, 2008 - 10:40 AM

Maybe someday you will post something that is actually informative rather than comments of a 10 year old. Do you kiss you mom goodnight with that mouth.

Time for a betanews ban on this nut job.

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By Setian^Stalker

edited Jun 26, 2008 - 9:16 PM

I'm amazed you even granted that a response :) I think it’s possibly the worst comment I have ever seen on this site and doubt that user account will be around for long